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Main
Date: 30 Jan 2007 13:21:26
From: rob classic
Subject: offset vs regular?
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i was doing my research for a new inexpensive driver (last years models ) i
cant spend $400 on a driver..
anyway, several pros from several stores all recommeded the cleveland driver
460ti. i looked online and they are $150, which is fine.
my question, for the same money, do i get offset, or regular? i used the
machine to swing, and though i always sliced my old driver,a knockoff bertha
454, this simulator said i went straight with the new, regular, driver. i
always tend to slice, and that is why i have used my 3 wood all season, but
want to correctly use a driver this year.
if i got lessons and straightened out my drives, will an offset club be
hurtful for me, or is it just a bonus whether you hit straight or slice?
it just seems offset is for ppl who figure they have a slice and deal with
it, as i would like to fix it.. so i dont know which club to grab.
any advice would be great
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Date: 01 Feb 2007 09:39:30
From: Birdie Bill
Subject: Re: offset vs regular?
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On Feb 1, 11:21 am, "Ben." <komb...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Feb 1, 7:41 am, "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_b...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm thinking what might happen in the real world,
> > rather than some fantasy that this guy is actually going
> > to do something about his swing.
>
> Why would you say that? Lots of people get lessons...
Oh, I'd say probably 80% or more never do. Or if they
do, it's probably not more than a few lessons.
To do it right, he should take the lessons first, and
then buy the driver. But since he is asking about
buying a driver, I have a feeling he is not going to
go that route.
Call me Karnak.
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Date: 01 Feb 2007 13:16:57
From: Otto
Subject: Re: offset vs regular?
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"Birdie Bill" <bighorn_bill@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1170351570.098956.45520@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> Oh, I'd say probably 80% or more never do. Or if they
> do, it's probably not more than a few lessons.
>
> To do it right, he should take the lessons first, and
> then buy the driver. But since he is asking about
> buying a driver, I have a feeling he is not going to
> go that route.
I'm with you that the majority of folks do not get lessons. Not sure of the
80% value but certainly possible.
Now let's take it one step further. How many people take productive lessons.
In other words, a lesson that makes a difference over the long term. A
lesson that actually sticks and furthers the development of the student's
swing. A lesson that will develop a swing such the student can take time off
from the game but come back later and repeat a decent swing. I'll put the
number of people that take productive lessons at well under 10%.
The way I see it, it essentially takes 2 things to achieve productive
lessons.
1. A qualified instructor with a plan for the student. The student should be
priily concerned with the lesson to lesson short term goals but the
instructor should have a long term plan for the end product--a well
developed, repeatable swing that can hit any club properly.
2. A well defined practice plan and a student with the motivation to put in
the time
Without the two items above in place, the lessons will be less than
optimized and in most cases will result in a very small majority of golfers
receiving productive lessons.
Otto
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Date: 02 Feb 2007 14:13:29
From: lynx
Subject: Re: offset vs regular?
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Otto wrote:
> "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_bill@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1170351570.098956.45520@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>
>> Oh, I'd say probably 80% or more never do. Or if they
>> do, it's probably not more than a few lessons.
>>
>> To do it right, he should take the lessons first, and
>> then buy the driver. But since he is asking about
>> buying a driver, I have a feeling he is not going to
>> go that route.
>>
>
>
> I'm with you that the majority of folks do not get lessons. Not sure of the
> 80% value but certainly possible.
>
> Now let's take it one step further. How many people take productive lessons.
> In other words, a lesson that makes a difference over the long term. A
> lesson that actually sticks and furthers the development of the student's
> swing. A lesson that will develop a swing such the student can take time off
> from the game but come back later and repeat a decent swing. I'll put the
> number of people that take productive lessons at well under 10%.
>
> The way I see it, it essentially takes 2 things to achieve productive
> lessons.
>
> 1. A qualified instructor with a plan for the student. The student should be
> priily concerned with the lesson to lesson short term goals but the
> instructor should have a long term plan for the end product--a well
> developed, repeatable swing that can hit any club properly.
>
> 2. A well defined practice plan and a student with the motivation to put in
> the time
>
>
> Without the two items above in place, the lessons will be less than
> optimized and in most cases will result in a very small majority of golfers
> receiving productive lessons.
>
> Otto
>
>
>
One thing i would add to that is a good rapport with the instructor-
find someone who you can relate to well, and especially his teaching
methodology. We all 'learn' differently, and sometimes much more can be
achieved with a few well chosen words, and how they are delivered,
rather than by much explanation, instruction, etc., that might tend to
confuse. I guess that all gets back to the teaching ability/talent of
the pro.
--
rgds,
Pete
=====
http://pw352.blogspot.com/
'I do precision guesswork'
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Date: 01 Feb 2007 09:21:31
From: Ben.
Subject: Re: offset vs regular?
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On Feb 1, 7:41 am, "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_b...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> I'm thinking what might happen in the real world,
> rather than some fantasy that this guy is actually going
> to do something about his swing.
Why would you say that? Lots of people get lessons...
> I also think anyone with a habitual slice shouldn't
> use a driver on the golf course, but that's probably a
> fantasy, too.
This is the best point you've made, and quite true, as well. Get a
swing, then invest in some high dollar equipment of your choosing. Do
it the other way around, and you're the laughing stock of your group.
Oh, you may not hear them, but they're laughing at you alright. I can
hear it now: "Nice <cough > fade. How much was that driver again?" or
"FORE RIGHT!!!" "But I haven't even swung yet!" "I know."
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Date: 01 Feb 2007 05:41:08
From: Birdie Bill
Subject: Re: offset vs regular?
|
On Jan 31, 1:48 pm, "Ben." <komb...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Jan 31, 2:05 am, "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_b...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 30, 9:45 pm, "Otto" <ottondebREMOVE%$#%^%$@@bellsouth.net>
> > wrote:
>
> > > "Carbon" <nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
>
> > >news:pan.2007.01.31.03.24.50.96144@nospam.tampabay.rr.com...
>
> > > > Another possibility is a driver with some bias built in, like the
> > > > Taylormade r5d. If you consistently slice it might not be a bad move. I
> > > > guess it depends on how much you're planning to work on your game.
>
> > > I have a "draw" biased Fusion FT-3 but I wish it were neutral.
>
> > > The vast majority of my missed fairways are to the right(too much draw--I'm
> > > a lefty)
>
> > > The launch monitor can not go to the course with you.
>
> > Maybe the best investment, if someone were thinking of working
> > on fixing his slice, would be a driver that is adjustable, like the
> > R7.
> > That way, if the "can't slice club" turns into the "hooks too much
> > club"
> > you might be able to do something about it.
>
> > Saw the R7 at Costco for $329 tonight. Not sure if that is a good
> > deal
> > or not.
>
> If you buy the hype that moving weight around on a club head is going
> to produce a different ball flight w/ a poor swing path, you deserve
> what you get - another golf club you can't hit. I'm not sure how much
> weight you can dick with w/ the R7, but I am pretty much inclined to
> believe it isn't enough to move the club head into position at impact
> and cure your slice. Might as well put a few grams of lead tape on
> the heel of your current driver and save yourself $300
I understand the weights are a lot more than you
can achieve using lead tape, and you do not affect the
swing weight. I don't have an R7, but I've heard from
people that do that the effect is real.
I'm thinking what might happen in the real world,
rather than some fantasy that this guy is actually going
to do something about his swing.
I also think anyone with a habitual slice shouldn't
use a driver on the golf course, but that's probably a
fantasy, too.
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Date: 02 Feb 2007 13:43:55
From: lynx
Subject: Re: offset vs regular?
|
Birdie Bill wrote:
> On Jan 31, 1:48 pm, "Ben." <komb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On Jan 31, 2:05 am, "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_b...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Jan 30, 9:45 pm, "Otto" <ottondebREMOVE%$#%^%$@@bellsouth.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Carbon" <nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> news:pan.2007.01.31.03.24.50.96144@nospam.tampabay.rr.com...
>>>>
>>>>> Another possibility is a driver with some bias built in, like the
>>>>> Taylormade r5d. If you consistently slice it might not be a bad move. I
>>>>> guess it depends on how much you're planning to work on your game.
>>>>>
>>>> I have a "draw" biased Fusion FT-3 but I wish it were neutral.
>>>>
>>>> The vast majority of my missed fairways are to the right(too much draw--I'm
>>>> a lefty)
>>>>
>>>> The launch monitor can not go to the course with you.
>>>>
>>> Maybe the best investment, if someone were thinking of working
>>> on fixing his slice, would be a driver that is adjustable, like the
>>> R7.
>>> That way, if the "can't slice club" turns into the "hooks too much
>>> club"
>>> you might be able to do something about it.
>>>
>>> Saw the R7 at Costco for $329 tonight. Not sure if that is a good
>>> deal
>>> or not.
>>>
>> If you buy the hype that moving weight around on a club head is going
>> to produce a different ball flight w/ a poor swing path, you deserve
>> what you get - another golf club you can't hit. I'm not sure how much
>> weight you can dick with w/ the R7, but I am pretty much inclined to
>> believe it isn't enough to move the club head into position at impact
>> and cure your slice. Might as well put a few grams of lead tape on
>> the heel of your current driver and save yourself $300
>>
>
> I understand the weights are a lot more than you
> can achieve using lead tape, and you do not affect the
> swing weight. I don't have an R7, but I've heard from
> people that do that the effect is real.
>
Correct on both counts.
> I'm thinking what might happen in the real world,
> rather than some fantasy that this guy is actually going
> to do something about his swing.
>
> I also think anyone with a habitual slice shouldn't
> use a driver on the golf course, but that's probably a
> fantasy, too.
>
No, a lot who do opt to use a thee wood (even a four or five wood).
shorter shaft, more loft = easier to hit.
--
rgds,
Pete
=====
http://pw352.blogspot.com/
'golf: a form of self inflicted torture'
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Date: 01 Feb 2007 08:43:45
From: Otto
Subject: Re: offset vs regular?
|
"Birdie Bill" <bighorn_bill@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1170337268.081953.126600@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
> I also think anyone with a habitual slice shouldn't
> use a driver on the golf course, but that's probably a
> fantasy, too.
That's like telling an addict to lay off the crack.
Otto
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Date: 31 Jan 2007 11:48:03
From: Ben.
Subject: Re: offset vs regular?
|
On Jan 31, 2:05 am, "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_b...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> On Jan 30, 9:45 pm, "Otto" <ottondebREMOVE%$#%^%$@@bellsouth.net>
> wrote:
>
> > "Carbon" <nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:pan.2007.01.31.03.24.50.96144@nospam.tampabay.rr.com...
>
> > > Another possibility is a driver with some bias built in, like the
> > > Taylormade r5d. If you consistently slice it might not be a bad move. I
> > > guess it depends on how much you're planning to work on your game.
>
> > I have a "draw" biased Fusion FT-3 but I wish it were neutral.
>
> > The vast majority of my missed fairways are to the right(too much draw--I'm
> > a lefty)
>
> > The launch monitor can not go to the course with you.
>
> Maybe the best investment, if someone were thinking of working
> on fixing his slice, would be a driver that is adjustable, like the
> R7.
> That way, if the "can't slice club" turns into the "hooks too much
> club"
> you might be able to do something about it.
>
> Saw the R7 at Costco for $329 tonight. Not sure if that is a good
> deal
> or not.
If you buy the hype that moving weight around on a club head is going
to produce a different ball flight w/ a poor swing path, you deserve
what you get - another golf club you can't hit. I'm not sure how much
weight you can dick with w/ the R7, but I am pretty much inclined to
believe it isn't enough to move the club head into position at impact
and cure your slice. Might as well put a few grams of lead tape on
the heel of your current driver and save yourself $300....
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Date: 31 Jan 2007 00:05:14
From: Birdie Bill
Subject: Re: offset vs regular?
|
On Jan 30, 9:45 pm, "Otto" <ottondebREMOVE%$#%^%$@@bellsouth.net >
wrote:
> "Carbon" <nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
>
> news:pan.2007.01.31.03.24.50.96144@nospam.tampabay.rr.com...
>
> > Another possibility is a driver with some bias built in, like the
> > Taylormade r5d. If you consistently slice it might not be a bad move. I
> > guess it depends on how much you're planning to work on your game.
>
> I have a "draw" biased Fusion FT-3 but I wish it were neutral.
>
> The vast majority of my missed fairways are to the right(too much draw--I'm
> a lefty)
>
> The launch monitor can not go to the course with you.
Maybe the best investment, if someone were thinking of working
on fixing his slice, would be a driver that is adjustable, like the
R7.
That way, if the "can't slice club" turns into the "hooks too much
club"
you might be able to do something about it.
Saw the R7 at Costco for $329 tonight. Not sure if that is a good
deal
or not.
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Date: 01 Feb 2007 23:42:20
From: lynx
Subject: Re: offset vs regular?
|
Birdie Bill wrote:
> On Jan 30, 9:45 pm, "Otto" <ottondebREMOVE%$#%^%$@@bellsouth.net>
> wrote:
>
>> "Carbon" <nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:pan.2007.01.31.03.24.50.96144@nospam.tampabay.rr.com...
>>
>>
>>> Another possibility is a driver with some bias built in, like the
>>> Taylormade r5d. If you consistently slice it might not be a bad move. I
>>> guess it depends on how much you're planning to work on your game.
>>>
>> I have a "draw" biased Fusion FT-3 but I wish it were neutral.
>>
>> The vast majority of my missed fairways are to the right(too much draw--I'm
>> a lefty)
>>
>> The launch monitor can not go to the course with you.
>>
>
> Maybe the best investment, if someone were thinking of working
> on fixing his slice, would be a driver that is adjustable, like the
> R7.
> That way, if the "can't slice club" turns into the "hooks too much
> club"
> you might be able to do something about it.
>
> Saw the R7 at Costco for $329 tonight. Not sure if that is a good
> deal
> or not.
>
>
That's good advice. I was hitting one just today actually with a pro
from Taylor Made. He had the torque wrench to change the weights around,
and doing so changed the feel of the club considerably, and the ball flight.
--
rgds,
Pete
=====
http://pw352.blogspot.com/
'To vacillate or not, that is the question... or is it?'
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Date: 31 Jan 2007 18:22:45
From: David Geesaman
Subject: Re: offset vs regular?
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Birdie Bill wrote:
> On Jan 30, 9:45 pm, "Otto" <ottondebREMOVE%$#%^%$@@bellsouth.net>
> Maybe the best investment, if someone were thinking of working
> on fixing his slice, would be a driver that is adjustable, like the
> R7.
> That way, if the "can't slice club" turns into the "hooks too much
> club"
> you might be able to do something about it.
I don't really think so. I would only give it extra credit for the
weighting if it were standing level with any other clubs I was
considering. I think it's just another excuse to not work on the swing.
Dave
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Date: 30 Jan 2007 19:14:38
From: Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS
Subject: Re: I AGREE WITH DICK CHENEY!
|
On Jan 30, 7:09 pm, "John B." <johnb...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jan 30, 10:27 am, "annika1980" <annika1...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Call Ripley!
>
> > In an interview with Dick Cheney this past weekend CNN's Wolf Blitzer
> > asked Cheney about his lesbian daughter's pregnancy. Cheney looked
> > like he was gonna torture Blitzer. For what must have seemed like an
> > eternity for Blitzer, Cheney was deep in thoughts of waterboarding and
> > visions of Blitzer hanging from a spike. Cheney just stared at him
> > before telling Blitzer he thought the question was out of line.
>
> > The meaning in Cheney's silence was clear. How dare Blitzer ask a
> > personal Q. like that about his family? What business is it of
> > Blitzer or anyone else how Cheney's daughter lives her life? The
> > media should stay out of it. And I agree with him.
>
> > Too bad he doesn't feel the same way about the government getting
> > involved in his daughter's personal life. Which, of course, was the
> > point that Blitzer was making and that Cheney continues to avoid.
>
> As much as I despise Cheney, I have to agree with you. It was a
> pointless and gratuitous question.
Idiot. Cheney's "anger" was just a way of avoiding a tough question.
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Date: 30 Jan 2007 19:11:03
From: David Geesaman
Subject: Re: offset vs regular?
|
rob classic wrote:
> anyway, several pros from several stores all recommeded the cleveland driver
> 460ti. i looked online and they are $150, which is fine.
I agree. But I don't feel you should buy the 460ti because others think
so, I think you should try it and decide what you like best. Because
technology-wise, every brand has about the same offerings.
> my question, for the same money, do i get offset, or regular? i used the
> machine to swing, and though i always sliced my old driver,a knockoff bertha
> 454, this simulator said i went straight with the new, regular, driver. i
> always tend to slice, and that is why i have used my 3 wood all season, but
> want to correctly use a driver this year.
Many possible reasons for this, but I really don't think it was the
offset (or lack thereof) doing it. If it really is the club, I'll bet
it's because the shafts happen to be a lot different.
> if i got lessons and straightened out my drives, will an offset club be
> hurtful for me, or is it just a bonus whether you hit straight or slice?
>
> it just seems offset is for ppl who figure they have a slice and deal with
> it, as i would like to fix it.. so i dont know which club to grab.
Offset has almost no effect in terms of the mechanics of why it works,
and much more effect due to the way the golfer responds to it. Just
looking at an offset club can produce a dramatically different swing
without the golfer ever knowing it.
Unfortunately, after an adjustment period most golfers revert back to
their original swing and the improvement is lost. So in the long run,
offsets don't hurt or help much either way.
> any advice would be great
Buy the club if you like it and focus on the lessons.
Dave
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Date: 30 Jan 2007 19:01:53
From: rob classic
Subject: thanks all! i am going with regular!!
|
appreciate the feedback.. thanks for advice.. i would have made wrong choice
if not for all of you!
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Date: 30 Jan 2007 18:43:56
From: Joe
Subject: Re: offset vs regular?
|
rob classic wrote:
> i was doing my research for a new inexpensive driver (last years models ) i
> cant spend $400 on a driver..
>
> anyway, several pros from several stores all recommeded the cleveland driver
> 460ti. i looked online and they are $150, which is fine.
>
> my question, for the same money, do i get offset, or regular? i used the
> machine to swing, and though i always sliced my old driver,a knockoff bertha
> 454, this simulator said i went straight with the new, regular, driver. i
> always tend to slice, and that is why i have used my 3 wood all season, but
> want to correctly use a driver this year.
>
> if i got lessons and straightened out my drives, will an offset club be
> hurtful for me, or is it just a bonus whether you hit straight or slice?
>
> it just seems offset is for ppl who figure they have a slice and deal with
> it, as i would like to fix it.. so i dont know which club to grab.
>
> any advice would be great
>
>
I agree with Ben, don't go with offset, take the lessons and fix it. If
you still have a fade the work with it. Virtually none of the Tour guys
hit a straight ball with driver except by accident. They all have a bias.
Besides once you get a natural, slice free stroke, and you want to learn
to work the ball and the offset will get in the way.
Joe
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Date: 30 Jan 2007 12:21:35
From:
Subject: Re: offset vs regular?
|
On Jan 30, 1:21 pm, "rob classic" <1...@1.com > wrote:
> i was doing my research for a new inexpensive driver (last years models ) i
> cant spend $400 on a driver..
>
> anyway, several pros from several stores all recommeded the cleveland driver
> 460ti. i looked online and they are $150, which is fine.
>
> if i got lessons and straightened out my drives, will an offset club be
> hurtful for me, or is it just a bonus whether you hit straight or slice?
>
> it just seems offset is for ppl who figure they have a slice and deal with
> it, as i would like to fix it.. so i dont know which club to grab.
>
> any advice would be great
i'd go with what Ben said, don't bother with the offset unless your
instructor advises.
Also you might get better value with the the non "Ti" Cleveland 460.
Great club
with the gold fuji shaft. Don't worry the head is still Titanium, the
Ti word was added on
later models. I don't think the Ti version was any different or
better.
|
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Date: 30 Jan 2007 14:15:27
From: John van der Pflum
Subject: Re: offset vs regular?
|
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 13:21:26 -0500, "rob classic" <1@1.com > wrote:
>i was doing my research for a new inexpensive driver (last years models ) i
>cant spend $400 on a driver..
>
>anyway, several pros from several stores all recommeded the cleveland driver
>460ti. i looked online and they are $150, which is fine.
>
>my question, for the same money, do i get offset, or regular? i used the
>machine to swing, and though i always sliced my old driver,a knockoff bertha
>454, this simulator said i went straight with the new, regular, driver. i
>always tend to slice, and that is why i have used my 3 wood all season, but
>want to correctly use a driver this year.
>
>if i got lessons and straightened out my drives, will an offset club be
>hurtful for me, or is it just a bonus whether you hit straight or slice?
>
>it just seems offset is for ppl who figure they have a slice and deal with
>it, as i would like to fix it.. so i dont know which club to grab.
>
>any advice would be great
>
Will they let you take it out to the course for a real demo? A lot of
times they will put some tape on the face and let you play a couple of
rounds with it to see how it works.
Personally, I don't trust the machines that tell me the ball is going
straight, drawing, etc. I want to see it on the course for myself.
--
jvdp
Start clearing your calendars
http://www.rsgcincinnati.com
|
| |
Date: 30 Jan 2007 13:53:52
From: Bill
Subject: Re: offset vs regular?
|
well best suggestion is to demo one for as long as possible..I had a strong
fade/slice problem and used offset driver which did help a bit. Anyway,
after some hard work, (lessons etc) I was able to fix it and actually can
hit a nice little draw most of the times...now the offset driver is
overkill..If I am not careful it produces a shot too far left. So I am going
back to a regular...
Ironically my problem in life now is learning to hit a good fade...:-)
Bill
"rob classic" <1@1.com > wrote in message
news:45bf8ca1$0$4909$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>i was doing my research for a new inexpensive driver (last years models )
>i cant spend $400 on a driver..
>
> anyway, several pros from several stores all recommeded the cleveland
> driver 460ti. i looked online and they are $150, which is fine.
>
> my question, for the same money, do i get offset, or regular? i used the
> machine to swing, and though i always sliced my old driver,a knockoff
> bertha 454, this simulator said i went straight with the new, regular,
> driver. i always tend to slice, and that is why i have used my 3 wood all
> season, but want to correctly use a driver this year.
>
> if i got lessons and straightened out my drives, will an offset club be
> hurtful for me, or is it just a bonus whether you hit straight or slice?
>
> it just seems offset is for ppl who figure they have a slice and deal with
> it, as i would like to fix it.. so i dont know which club to grab.
>
> any advice would be great
>
>
|
| |
Date: 30 Jan 2007 10:50:55
From: Ben.
Subject: Re: offset vs regular?
|
On Jan 30, 12:21 pm, "rob classic" <1...@1.com > wrote:
> i was doing my research for a new inexpensive driver (last years models ) i
> cant spend $400 on a driver..
>
> anyway, several pros from several stores all recommeded the cleveland driver
> 460ti. i looked online and they are $150, which is fine.
>
> my question, for the same money, do i get offset, or regular? i used the
> machine to swing, and though i always sliced my old driver,a knockoff bertha
> 454, this simulator said i went straight with the new, regular, driver. i
> always tend to slice, and that is why i have used my 3 wood all season, but
> want to correctly use a driver this year.
>
> if i got lessons and straightened out my drives, will an offset club be
> hurtful for me, or is it just a bonus whether you hit straight or slice?
>
> it just seems offset is for ppl who figure they have a slice and deal with
> it, as i would like to fix it.. so i dont know which club to grab.
>
> any advice would be great
Buy the non-offset version and get lessons. Period. Don't rely on
equipment to fix, nay, mask your swing flaws. You'll be better for it
in the long run.
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