the instant power move -- anyone try it?

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Date: 27 Sep 2006 10:21:00
From: warren montgomery
Subject: the instant power move -- anyone try it?

The ober issue of Golf (which I think arrived in July or August) had a
short feature on a swing move to add 30 yards to your shots. I'm naturally
very suspicious of this kind of snake oil, but I'm also naturally curious
enough to try some of these things. In this case the move is essentially
rolling your wrists through impact. The author, a teaching pro billed as
unconventional, says top players do it without thinking, but many others
don't, and it's not taught by most teaching pros. So I tried it. I don't
know that I got 30 yards, but I did get more consistent shots and fewer
"power failure" fades. I don't buy the explanation that the article
gives -- that the motion of closing the clubface through impact is
responsible for significant extra clubhead speed at the point of impact --
but I suspect that what really happens in my case at least is that this
forces me to accellerate all the way through impact instead of holding back
and steering the club worrying more about the path and clubhead than just
completing the swing. Anyway, I was curious what others who read the item
thought

--
Warren Montgomery (wamontgomery@att.net)
http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery

Date: 27 Sep 2006 12:36:48
From: Mike Dalecki
Subject: Re: the instant power move -- anyone try it?

warren montgomery wrote:
> The ober issue of Golf (which I think arrived in July or August) had a
> short feature on a swing move to add 30 yards to your shots. I'm naturally
> very suspicious of this kind of snake oil, but I'm also naturally curious
> enough to try some of these things. In this case the move is essentially
> rolling your wrists through impact. The author, a teaching pro billed as
> unconventional, says top players do it without thinking, but many others
> don't, and it's not taught by most teaching pros. So I tried it. I don't
> know that I got 30 yards, but I did get more consistent shots and fewer
> "power failure" fades. I don't buy the explanation that the article
> gives -- that the motion of closing the clubface through impact is
> responsible for significant extra clubhead speed at the point of impact --
> but I suspect that what really happens in my case at least is that this
> forces me to accellerate all the way through impact instead of holding back
> and steering the club worrying more about the path and clubhead than just
> completing the swing. Anyway, I was curious what others who read the item
> thought
>

This is the same thing AJ Bonar teaches in his stuff. I think that
rolling the wrists/forearms accomplishes two things: First, you do get
additional power from the clubface closing through the hitting zone.
Second, it helps square up the clubface, such that you're less likely to
fade, or will fade less, and that will result in greater distance.

When I did the AJ stuff, I *did* get that much more distance, or close
enough that I didn't care.

Mike

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Dalecki GCA Accredited Clubmaker http://clubdor.com
RSG-Wisconsin 2006: June 23-25 Info: http://dalecki.net/rsgwis2006/
RSG-Wisconsin 2005 Pics: http://dalecki.net/rsgwis2005/pics/
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 27 Sep 2006 13:18:35
From: Steve
Subject: Re: the instant power move -- anyone try it?

> This is the same thing AJ Bonar teaches in his stuff. I think that
> rolling the wrists/forearms accomplishes two things: First, you do get
> additional power from the clubface closing through the hitting zone.
> Second, it helps square up the clubface, such that you're less likely to
> fade, or will fade less, and that will result in greater distance.
>

Have seen the AJ videos, not a big believer or practitioner even though I
have taken a lesson from a pro who at one time worked for the guy. Recently
was reading something about Hogan's swing and it struck me that Hogans idea
of what left wrist should be doing at the top of the backswing and at impact
kind of mimics what AJ says.

Steve

Date: 27 Sep 2006 16:44:23
From: \R&B\
Subject: Re: the instant power move -- anyone try it?

"Steve" <stevenospamplease@comcast.com > wrote
>
> Recently was reading something about Hogan's swing
> and it struck me that Hogans idea of what left wrist should
> be doing at the top of the backswing and at impact kind of
> mimics what AJ says.

Uh.....I think to be more accurate, you'd have to say that what A.J. says
mimicks what Hogan said.

Hogan said it first.

A.J. has merely repackaged it to sell DVDs.

Randy

Date: 27 Sep 2006 14:09:08
From: warren montgomery
Subject: Re: the instant power move -- anyone try it?

>
> This is the same thing AJ Bonar teaches in his stuff. I think that
> rolling the wrists/forearms accomplishes two things: First, you do get
> additional power from the clubface closing through the hitting zone.
> Second, it helps square up the clubface, such that you're less likely to
> fade, or will fade less, and that will result in greater distance.
>
Yes, AJ Bonar, that's the guy they were featuring.
>
> When I did the AJ stuff, I *did* get that much more distance, or close
> enough that I didn't care.
>
Sounds like you stopped doing it. Why?

(As I said in the original, I think whatever improvement I got was more
about it helping me finish the swing accellerating through the ball instead
of trying to steer the clubhead, and that's probably only a temporary
effect).

--
Warren Montgomery (wamontgomery@att.net)
http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery

Date: 27 Sep 2006 15:16:52
From: Mike Dalecki
Subject: Re: the instant power move -- anyone try it?

warren montgomery wrote:
>>This is the same thing AJ Bonar teaches in his stuff. I think that
>>rolling the wrists/forearms accomplishes two things: First, you do get
>>additional power from the clubface closing through the hitting zone.
>>Second, it helps square up the clubface, such that you're less likely to
>>fade, or will fade less, and that will result in greater distance.
>>
>
> Yes, AJ Bonar, that's the guy they were featuring.
>
>>When I did the AJ stuff, I *did* get that much more distance, or close
>>enough that I didn't care.
>>
>
> Sounds like you stopped doing it. Why?
>
> (As I said in the original, I think whatever improvement I got was more
> about it helping me finish the swing accellerating through the ball instead
> of trying to steer the clubhead, and that's probably only a temporary
> effect).
>

actually, I'm still trying to do it, but there are other things I'm
working on in my swing, as per my pro. It's setup and posture issues
that I'm working on.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Dalecki GCA Accredited Clubmaker http://clubdor.com
RSG-Wisconsin 2006: June 23-25 Info: http://dalecki.net/rsgwis2006/
RSG-Wisconsin 2006 Pics: http://dalecki.net/rsgwis2006/pics/
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 27 Sep 2006 17:32:11
From: Kenny Stultz
Subject: Re: the instant power move -- anyone try it?

In article <uradne9tDqlDC4fYnZ2dnUVZ_tadnZ2d@comcast.com >,
wamontgomery@worldnet.att.net says...
>
>The ober issue of Golf (which I think arrived in July or August) had a
>short feature on a swing move to add 30 yards to your shots. I'm naturally
>very suspicious of this kind of snake oil, but I'm also naturally curious
>enough to try some of these things. In this case the move is essentially
>rolling your wrists through impact. The author, a teaching pro billed as
>unconventional, says top players do it without thinking, but many others
>don't, and it's not taught by most teaching pros. So I tried it. I don't
>know that I got 30 yards, but I did get more consistent shots and fewer
>"power failure" fades. I don't buy the explanation that the article
>gives -- that the motion of closing the clubface through impact is
>responsible for significant extra clubhead speed at the point of impact --
>but I suspect that what really happens in my case at least is that this
>forces me to accellerate all the way through impact instead of holding back
>and steering the club worrying more about the path and clubhead than just
>completing the swing. Anyway, I was curious what others who read the item
>thought
>
>--
>Warren Montgomery (wamontgomery@att.net)
>http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery
>
>

I tried it at the range at it seemed to work well. I didn't get any 30 extra
yards, but it felt like I was getting a few extra yards.

Two days later on the course, the magic move did nothing but cause me to pull
and hook everything.

I gave up on the whole idea after that.

Kenny

--
Kenny Stultz - Troll and SPAM intolerant
"Golf is the only sport where a precise knowledge of the Rules can
earn one a reputation for bad sportsmanship"

Date: 27 Sep 2006 09:11:13
From: gpsman
Subject: Re: the instant power move -- anyone try it?

warren montgomery wrote:
> In this case the move is essentially
> rolling your wrists through impact.

I used the method with some success many years ago with my self-built
swing. The feeling (for me) was that of kinda flinging the ball off
the clubface at impact and requires a hell of a sense of timing to get
any consistency, which I did not. I did find it a pretty good way to
develop an unintentional snap hook and/or slice, though.

> The author, a teaching pro billed as
> unconventional, says top players do it without thinking

Pfft. Obviously from close-up slow-mo sequences of pro's impacts, they
do not.

> Anyway, I was curious what others who read the item
> thought

I thought I was generating more clubhead velocity with the snap-over of
the wrists, and I probably was with that basically not-for-shit swing I
had. One of my first lessons was "trying to cross the arms as hard as
you can" which works okay if you start it late enough.

Compare a baseball hitter's swing. All the power is generated
pre-wrist roll/arm cross/release/pronation, whatever you want to call
it, and the same is true if you examine pro golfers' impact positions.
The arms do not cross, or begin to cross, until after impact.
-----

- gpsman

Date: 27 Sep 2006 09:05:20
From: Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
Subject: Re: the instant power move -- anyone try it?

Date: 27 Sep 2006 08:48:59
From: oconnell@slr.orl.lmco.com
Subject: Re: the instant power move -- anyone try it?

warren montgomery wrote:
[snip]
>In this case the move is essentially
> rolling your wrists through impact. The author, a teaching pro billed as
> unconventional, says top players do it without thinking, but many others
> don't, and it's not taught by most teaching pros.

I've heard of it before. I've also heard it takes alot of practice
because
it requires good timing to be of any use. Bad timing and you won't
square up the club face.

> So I tried it. I don't
> know that I got 30 yards, but I did get more consistent shots and fewer
> "power failure" fades. I don't buy the explanation that the article
> gives -- that the motion of closing the clubface through impact is
> responsible for significant extra clubhead speed at the point of impact --
> but I suspect that what really happens in my case at least is that this
> forces me to accellerate all the way through impact instead of holding back
> and steering the club worrying more about the path and clubhead than just
> completing the swing. Anyway, I was curious what others who read the item
> thought
[snip]

The explanation I heard was that you had more clubhead speed,
at the moment of impact, because the extra speed is the face
rotating around the shaft and the velocity of the sweet spot is
increased. But as you can see, this would take ALOT of timing.
I met one guy that was trying it, and he was spraying them all
over the place. I guess if you want to commit to trying and learning,
go for it. I often point out that Tiger made some relatively small
changes to his swing, practiced them for the better part of 2 years,
basically daily, under various coaches, and it still took him 2
years. How much time do you have to commit?

Date: 28 Sep 2006 01:06:52
From: Zuke
Subject: Re: the instant power move -- anyone try it?

On Wed, 27 Sep 2006, oconnell@slr.orl.lmco.com wrote:

>
> warren montgomery wrote:
> [snip]
>> In this case the move is essentially
>> rolling your wrists through impact. The author, a teaching pro billed as
>> unconventional, says top players do it without thinking, but many others
>> don't, and it's not taught by most teaching pros.
>
> I've heard of it before. I've also heard it takes alot of practice
> because
> it requires good timing to be of any use. Bad timing and you won't
> square up the club face.
>
>> So I tried it. I don't
>> know that I got 30 yards, but I did get more consistent shots and fewer
>> "power failure" fades. I don't buy the explanation that the article

I think what's lost in all the golf guru pie in the sky theories is
that it really takes a lot of athletic skill to hit the golf
ball well consistently. I am sure if you are born with the innate
talent to close our wrists while hitting through the ball you would
gain some distance but I suspect most of us would end up with a lot
of smothered hooks or shanks. In the long run I think a better swing
thought would be to hit the ball square on the clubface. I
shouldn't be talking though as my ability to drive the ball has
totally collapsed. I am hitting a snipe hook that usually ends up
under a bush in the rough about 205 yards off the tee.

Date: 27 Sep 2006 20:43:53
From: Alan Illeman
Subject: Re: the instant power move -- anyone try it?

"warren montgomery" <wamontgomery@worldnet.att.net > wrote in message news:uradne9tDqlDC4fYnZ2dnUVZ_tadnZ2d@comcast.com...
> The ober issue of Golf (which I think arrived in July or August) had a
> short feature on a swing move to add 30 yards to your shots. I'm naturally
> very suspicious of this kind of snake oil, but I'm also naturally curious
> enough to try some of these things. In this case the move is essentially
> rolling your wrists through impact. The author, a teaching pro billed as
> unconventional, says top players do it without thinking, but many others
> don't, and it's not taught by most teaching pros. So I tried it. I don't
> know that I got 30 yards, but I did get more consistent shots and fewer
> "power failure" fades. I don't buy the explanation that the article
> gives -- that the motion of closing the clubface through impact is
> responsible for significant extra clubhead speed at the point of impact --
> but I suspect that what really happens in my case at least is that this
> forces me to accellerate all the way through impact instead of holding back
> and steering the club worrying more about the path and clubhead than just
> completing the swing. Anyway, I was curious what others who read the item
> thought

Just learn to swing in a circle and it'll take care of itself, or so I'm told 8^)

Seriously, you should think (at the top) about rolling your forearms at 'both
arms straight' after impact.

Date: 27 Sep 2006 15:25:10
From: EdSmithers
Subject: Re: the instant power move -- anyone try it?

warren montgomery wrote:
> The ober issue of Golf (which I think arrived in July or August) had a
> short feature on a swing move to add 30 yards to your shots. I'm naturally
> very suspicious of this kind of snake oil, but I'm also naturally curious
> enough to try some of these things.

There's another thread about this earlier this month and I replied to
it. I've been trying the move for a couple of weeks now and love the
results I'm getting. I'm hitting driver and 5 wood about 20 yards
longer. My irons are all up about 10, and I'm experiencing a nice tight
draw ball flight instead of my normal 1/2 fade, 1/2 slice (depending on
the day). It's been a really terrific change and nothing I've tried in
the past year has had as big an impact in such a short period of time.

At first I did experience some gargantuan hooks - which the article
talks about - but now I've got a sort of feel in my head and my hands
about when to turn it over and how much to turn it over. If it means
anything, it "feels" to me like a rather small rotation, maybe only the
difference between - while passing through the strike zone - seeing no
knuckles on the right hand versus seeing 2. A bigger twist seems harder
for me to control, and I don't see an appreciable difference in yardage
even when I do time a BIGGER twist than normal. (I know that probably
didn't make any sense to anyone, but I don't really have the words to
explain how my golf swing works...haha.)

So, I'm really pleased. My ball flight is more reliable, and I'm
getting more yardage. It's done nothing for my putting of course, but
I'm on board as a believer on this one.

Ed

Date: 27 Sep 2006 14:39:38
From: Aunt Judy likes it in the rear
Subject: Re: the instant power move -- anyone try it?

Laura Bush murdered her boy friend wrote:
> warren montgomery wrote:
> > The ober issue of Golf (which I think arrived in July or August) had a
> > short feature on a swing move to add 30 yards to your shots. I'm naturally
> > very suspicious of this kind of snake oil, but I'm also naturally curious
> > enough to try some of these things. In this case the move is essentially
> > rolling your wrists through impact. The author, a teaching pro billed as
> > unconventional, says top players do it without thinking, but many others
> > don't, and it's not taught by most teaching pros. So I tried it. I don't
> > know that I got 30 yards, but I did get more consistent shots and fewer
> > "power failure" fades. I don't buy the explanation that the article
> > gives -- that the motion of closing the clubface through impact is
> > responsible for significant extra clubhead speed at the point of impact --
> > but I suspect that what really happens in my case at least is that this
> > forces me to accellerate all the way through impact instead of holding back
> > and steering the club worrying more about the path and clubhead than just
> > completing the swing. Anyway, I was curious what others who read the item
> > thought
> >
>
> Just go to a strong grip and swing away.

'Zat what you tell your butties at the bath house, Aunt Judy?

Date: 27 Sep 2006 12:54:36
From: Ersatz
Subject: Re: the instant power move -- anyone try it?

warren montgomery wrote:
> The ober issue of Golf (which I think arrived in July or August) had a
> short feature on a swing move to add 30 yards to your shots. I'm naturally
> very suspicious of this kind of snake oil, but I'm also naturally curious
> enough to try some of these things. In this case the move is essentially
> rolling your wrists through impact. The author, a teaching pro billed as
> unconventional, says top players do it without thinking, but many others
> don't, and it's not taught by most teaching pros. So I tried it. I don't
> know that I got 30 yards, but I did get more consistent shots and fewer
> "power failure" fades. I don't buy the explanation that the article
> gives -- that the motion of closing the clubface through impact is
> responsible for significant extra clubhead speed at the point of impact --
> but I suspect that what really happens in my case at least is that this
> forces me to accellerate all the way through impact instead of holding back
> and steering the club worrying more about the path and clubhead than just
> completing the swing. Anyway, I was curious what others who read the item
> thought
>
> --
> Warren Montgomery (wamontgomery@att.net)
> http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery

Had a lesson today and was taught something very similar.
my problem is/was fat/thin and lack of confidence in the use of woods
off the fairway due to continuous pushes.
Diagnosis: decelleration.
Grab that rescue wood...
First part was slowing down the backswing and accelerating through
using a 3 to 1 ratio. Good contact and length but still pushing.
Second part: Curing the push. Turn the arms over 180 degrees from the
START of the downswing. Push gone, now drawing the shot.

He asked what my divots were like with the irons.
"What divots?"
Come back Friday 5PM.....
Rog

Date: 27 Sep 2006 10:48:32
From: RockPile
Subject: Re: the instant power move -- anyone try it?

warren montgomery wrote:

> I don't buy the explanation that the article
> gives -- that the motion of closing the clubface through impact is
> responsible for significant extra clubhead speed at the point of impact --
> but I suspect that what really happens in my case at least is that this
> forces me to accellerate all the way through impact instead of holding back
> and steering the club worrying more about the path and clubhead than just
> completing the swing. Anyway, I was curious what others who read the item
> thought
>
> --
> Warren Montgomery (wamontgomery@att.net)
> http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery

I had a similar change to my impact thinking that helped me reduce the
power fades. I have a habitually open clubface at impact and was
idling through a meeting at work playing with my grip when I noticed
that the back of my left hand was pointing to the sky at 'impact',
keeping my wrists from rolling over at all. I was reminded of the golf
magazine 'fixes' that advocate the back of the left hand pointing at
the target.

Thinking that thought during the downswing has both cleared other
thoughts from my mind and helped me to feel what release is supposed to
feel like. For me it was not trying to time it at all, just focusing
on the back of the left hand has allowed the natural timign to happen
at all, which has resulted in many fewer ugly fades and more power
through the ball.

RockPile

Date: 27 Sep 2006 21:57:28
From: DaveB
Subject: Re: the instant power move -- anyone try it?

On 27 Sep 2006 10:48:32 -0700, "RockPile" <rpyle_1999@yahoo.com >
wrote:

>
>warren montgomery wrote:
>
>> I don't buy the explanation that the article
>> gives -- that the motion of closing the clubface through impact is
>> responsible for significant extra clubhead speed at the point of impact --
>> but I suspect that what really happens in my case at least is that this
>> forces me to accellerate all the way through impact instead of holding back
>> and steering the club worrying more about the path and clubhead than just
>> completing the swing. Anyway, I was curious what others who read the item
>> thought
>>
>> --
>> Warren Montgomery (wamontgomery@att.net)
>> http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery
>
>I had a similar change to my impact thinking that helped me reduce the
>power fades. I have a habitually open clubface at impact and was
>idling through a meeting at work playing with my grip when I noticed
>that the back of my left hand was pointing to the sky at 'impact',
>keeping my wrists from rolling over at all. I was reminded of the golf
>magazine 'fixes' that advocate the back of the left hand pointing at
>the target.
>
>Thinking that thought during the downswing has both cleared other
>thoughts from my mind and helped me to feel what release is supposed to
>feel like. For me it was not trying to time it at all, just focusing
>on the back of the left hand has allowed the natural timign to happen
>at all, which has resulted in many fewer ugly fades and more power
>through the ball.
>
>RockPile
>
Don't your co-workers mind you practicing your swing during meetings ?

No wonder you dont get anything done !

<grin >

Best
Daveb

Date: 28 Sep 2006 10:01:49
From: pete z
Subject: Re: the instant power move -- anyone try it?

Alan Illeman wrote:
> "warren montgomery" <wamontgomery@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:uradne9tDqlDC4fYnZ2dnUVZ_tadnZ2d@comcast.com...
> > The ober issue of Golf (which I think arrived in July or August) had a
> > short feature on a swing move to add 30 yards to your shots. I'm naturally
> > very suspicious of this kind of snake oil, but I'm also naturally curious
> > enough to try some of these things. In this case the move is essentially
> > rolling your wrists through impact. The author, a teaching pro billed as
> > unconventional, says top players do it without thinking, but many others
> > don't, and it's not taught by most teaching pros. So I tried it. I don't
> > know that I got 30 yards, but I did get more consistent shots and fewer
> > "power failure" fades. I don't buy the explanation that the article
> > gives -- that the motion of closing the clubface through impact is
> > responsible for significant extra clubhead speed at the point of impact --
> > but I suspect that what really happens in my case at least is that this
> > forces me to accellerate all the way through impact instead of holding back
> > and steering the club worrying more about the path and clubhead than just
> > completing the swing. Anyway, I was curious what others who read the item
> > thought
>
> Just learn to swing in a circle and it'll take care of itself, or so I'm told 8^)
>
> Seriously, you should think (at the top) about rolling your forearms at 'both
> arms straight' after impact.

Seriously, do you think about turning the steering wheel, when you
drive a car?

Date: 28 Sep 2006 09:24:38
From: larryrsf
Subject: Re: the instant power move -- anyone try it?

warren montgomery wrote:
> The ober issue of Golf (which I think arrived in July or August) had a
> short feature on a swing move to add 30 yards to your shots. I'm naturally
> very suspicious of this kind of snake oil, but I'm also naturally curious
> enough to try some of these things. In this case the move is essentially
> rolling your wrists through impact. The author, a teaching pro billed as
> unconventional, says top players do it without thinking, but many others
> don't, and it's not taught by most teaching pros. So I tried it. I don't
> know that I got 30 yards, but I did get more consistent shots and fewer
> "power failure" fades. I don't buy the explanation that the article
> gives -- that the motion of closing the clubface through impact is
> responsible for significant extra clubhead speed at the point of impact --
> but I suspect that what really happens in my case at least is that this
> forces me to accellerate all the way through impact instead of holding back
> and steering the club worrying more about the path and clubhead than just
> completing the swing. Anyway, I was curious what others who read the item
> thought
>
> --
> Warren Montgomery (wamontgomery@att.net)
> http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery

Pure B.S.!!!

If you want to see how to generate more clubhead speed, just swing a
SpeedStik or use a radar clubhead speed detector with a driver.
Experiment with all sorts of different swings-- different grips,
different amounts of wrist cock, everything you can think of.

You will learn that your max clubhead speed is almost entirely dictated
by your age. If you are younger than 40, you can generate 130+ if you
swing correctly. If you are 60+, your max is in the 90 MPH range.
NOTHING can change that.

As regards AJ's article, it is totally bogus to exert "hands" in order
to create more clubhead speed-- try it and see.

We can "disconnect" our arms and get more clubhead speed by making an
unsynchronized swing and "throwing" our arms-- but that is totally
useless for golf-- or baseball. There is no directional control when
we do that-- you would hit it over two fairways sideways.

Larry

Date: 28 Sep 2006 11:38:55
From: Mike Dalecki
Subject: Re: the instant power move -- anyone try it?

larryrsf wrote:
> warren montgomery wrote:
>> The ober issue of Golf (which I think arrived in July or August) had a
>> short feature on a swing move to add 30 yards to your shots. I'm naturally
>> very suspicious of this kind of snake oil, but I'm also naturally curious
>> enough to try some of these things. In this case the move is essentially
>> rolling your wrists through impact. The author, a teaching pro billed as
>> unconventional, says top players do it without thinking, but many others
>> don't, and it's not taught by most teaching pros. So I tried it. I don't
>> know that I got 30 yards, but I did get more consistent shots and fewer
>> "power failure" fades. I don't buy the explanation that the article
>> gives -- that the motion of closing the clubface through impact is
>> responsible for significant extra clubhead speed at the point of impact --
>> but I suspect that what really happens in my case at least is that this
>> forces me to accellerate all the way through impact instead of holding back
>> and steering the club worrying more about the path and clubhead than just
>> completing the swing. Anyway, I was curious what others who read the item
>> thought
>>
>> --
>> Warren Montgomery (wamontgomery@att.net)
>> http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery
>
> Pure B.S.!!!
>
> If you want to see how to generate more clubhead speed, just swing a
> SpeedStik or use a radar clubhead speed detector with a driver.

What about a whippy? I thought that was the be-all and end-all of swing
aids?

> Experiment with all sorts of different swings-- different grips,
> different amounts of wrist cock, everything you can think of.

Yeah, that will be the ticket--someone will find a compensation and
that'll work for about a day or a week.

> You will learn that your max clubhead speed is almost entirely dictated
> by your age. If you are younger than 40, you can generate 130+ if you
> swing correctly. If you are 60+, your max is in the 90 MPH range.
> NOTHING can change that.

I love it. Such a troll you are! Everybody younger than 40 can
generate 130+ (does anyone actually have that?), and if you're 60+ you
CANNOT get above the 90 MPH range.

Trick to spotting Larry's trolls: Absolutes. He loves 'em.

> As regards AJ's article, it is totally bogus to exert "hands" in order
> to create more clubhead speed-- try it and see.

I did and it works. I guess it's not bogus.

> We can "disconnect" our arms and get more clubhead speed by making an
> unsynchronized swing and "throwing" our arms-- but that is totally
> useless for golf-- or baseball. There is no directional control when
> we do that-- you would hit it over two fairways sideways.

Whatever that means, but by this time, the trollisms are obvious.

Mike

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Dalecki GCA Accredited Clubmaker http://clubdor.com
RSG-Wisconsin 2006: June 23-25 Info: http://dalecki.net/rsgwis2006/
RSG-Wisconsin 2005 Pics: http://dalecki.net/rsgwis2005/pics/
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 29 Sep 2006 06:43:08
From: Ernie
Subject: Re: the instant power move -- anyone try it?

In article <1159460678.701145.16930@d34g2000cwd.googlegroups.com >,
"larryrsf" <larry@delmardata.com > wrote:

> warren montgomery wrote:
> > The ober issue of Golf (which I think arrived in July or August) had a
> > short feature on a swing move to add 30 yards to your shots. I'm naturally
> > very suspicious of this kind of snake oil, but I'm also naturally curious
> > enough to try some of these things. In this case the move is essentially
> > rolling your wrists through impact. The author, a teaching pro billed as
> > unconventional, says top players do it without thinking, but many others
> > don't, and it's not taught by most teaching pros. So I tried it. I don't
> > know that I got 30 yards, but I did get more consistent shots and fewer
> > "power failure" fades. I don't buy the explanation that the article
> > gives -- that the motion of closing the clubface through impact is
> > responsible for significant extra clubhead speed at the point of impact --
> > but I suspect that what really happens in my case at least is that this
> > forces me to accellerate all the way through impact instead of holding back
> > and steering the club worrying more about the path and clubhead than just
> > completing the swing. Anyway, I was curious what others who read the item
> > thought
> >
> > --
> > Warren Montgomery (wamontgomery@att.net)
> > http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery
>
> Pure B.S.!!!
>
> If you want to see how to generate more clubhead speed, just swing a
> SpeedStik or use a radar clubhead speed detector with a driver.
> Experiment with all sorts of different swings-- different grips,
> different amounts of wrist cock, everything you can think of.
>
> You will learn that your max clubhead speed is almost entirely dictated
> by your age. If you are younger than 40, you can generate 130+ if you
> swing correctly. If you are 60+, your max is in the 90 MPH range.
> NOTHING can change that.
>
> As regards AJ's article, it is totally bogus to exert "hands" in order
> to create more clubhead speed-- try it and see.
>
> We can "disconnect" our arms and get more clubhead speed by making an
> unsynchronized swing and "throwing" our arms-- but that is totally
> useless for golf-- or baseball. There is no directional control when
> we do that-- you would hit it over two fairways sideways.
>
> Larry

Golly gee, Larry.

Is there anything about golf you don't know?

LOL

Date: 30 Sep 2006 02:17:26
From: Sparky
Subject: Re: the instant power move -- anyone try it?

On 28-Sep-2006, "larryrsf" <larry@delmardata.com > wrote:

> You will learn that your max clubhead speed is almost entirely dictated
> by your age. If you are younger than 40, you can generate 130+ if you
> swing correctly. If you are 60+, your max is in the 90 MPH range.
> NOTHING can change that.

130+???? I guess that's why I can only hit 124 seeing as I'm 44 with a
pacemaker in my chest and all.... Of course I could only hit about 115
when I was 38 so I must be doing something wrong to actually gain speed as
I get older.....

me

Date: 28 Sep 2006 05:47:59
From: Ersatz
Subject: Re: the instant power move -- anyone try it?

Ersatz wrote:
> warren montgomery wrote:
<snip >
> > Warren Montgomery (wamontgomery@att.net)
> > http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery
>
> Had a lesson today and was taught something very similar.
> my problem is/was fat/thin and lack of confidence in the use of woods
> off the fairway due to continuous pushes.
> Diagnosis: decelleration.
> Grab that rescue wood...
> First part was slowing down the backswing and accelerating through
> using a 3 to 1 ratio. Good contact and length but still pushing.
> Second part: Curing the push. Turn the arms over 180 degrees from the
> START of the downswing. Push gone, now drawing the shot.
>
> He asked what my divots were like with the irons.
> "What divots?"
> Come back Friday 5PM.....
> Rog

Camcorder shows a better impact position, hips forward, head behind the
ball.
Gone is the flat-footed tripod look. Have to ingrain it now.
Rog

Date: 28 Sep 2006 05:43:57
From: Ersatz
Subject: Re: the instant power move -- anyone try it?

Date: 28 Sep 2006 10:08:57
From: Alan Murphy
Subject: Re: the instant power move -- anyone try it?

"warren montgomery" <wamontgomery@worldnet.att.net > wrote in message
news:uradne9tDqlDC4fYnZ2dnUVZ_tadnZ2d@comcast.com...
> The ober issue of Golf (which I think arrived in July or August) had a
> short feature on a swing move to add 30 yards to your shots. I'm
> naturally very suspicious of this kind of snake oil, but I'm also
> naturally curious enough to try some of these things. In this case the
> move is essentially rolling your wrists through impact. The author, a
> teaching pro billed as unconventional, says top players do it without
> thinking, but many others don't, and it's not taught by most teaching
> pros. So I tried it. I don't know that I got 30 yards, but I did get
> more consistent shots and fewer "power failure" fades. I don't buy the
> explanation that the article gives -- that the motion of closing the
> clubface through impact is responsible for significant extra clubhead
> speed at the point of impact -- but I suspect that what really happens
> in my case at least is that this forces me to accellerate all the way
> through impact instead of holding back and steering the club worrying
> more about the path and clubhead than just completing the swing. Anyway,
> I was curious what others who read the item thought
>
> --
> Warren Montgomery (wamontgomery@att.net)
> http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery
If you bend and straighten the right elbow during
the swing you can't help but roll the left forearm
on the backswing and on the downswing. Most
people block this action by trying to steer the ball.
As long as you bend and straighten the right elbow
correctly you should just let it happen and trust
that it must happen without concious effort through
impact.

Alan

Date: 28 Sep 2006 10:32:16
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: the instant power move -- anyone try it?

On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 10:08:57 +0100, "Alan Murphy"
<afmccl@btinternet.com > wrote:

>If you bend and straighten the right elbow during
>the swing you can't help but roll the left forearm
>on the backswing and on the downswing. Most
>people block this action by trying to steer the ball.
>As long as you bend and straighten the right elbow
>correctly you should just let it happen and trust
>that it must happen without concious effort through
>impact.

That has been my impression. Bonar has pictures of what players like
Tiger actually do, and sees that the clubs open and close more than we
might think. But that doesn't mean we should be thinking about
making this movement.

That said, one of my big improvement stages occurred when I realized
that I couldn't be square for most of my swing. All of a sudden I got
a lot longer and more accurate. (This didn't fix my tendency to get
fat though).

Date: 28 Sep 2006 11:41:55
From: Ersatz
Subject: Re: the instant power move -- anyone try it?

Alan Illeman wrote:

> Just learn to swing in a circle and it'll take care of itself, or so I'm told 8^)
>
> Seriously, you should think (at the top) about rolling your forearms at 'both
> arms straight' after impact.

Good point, you will find it very difficult to rotate your arms with a
bent elbow.
DO try this at home folks :)
Rog

Date: 29 Sep 2006 04:57:22
From: Ersatz
Subject: Re: the instant power move -- anyone try it?

larryrsf wrote:

>
> You will learn that your max clubhead speed is almost entirely dictated
> by your age. If you are younger than 40, you can generate 130+ if you
> swing correctly. If you are 60+, your max is in the 90 MPH range.
> NOTHING can change that.

How far did Moe Norman hit it in his youth??
Interesting theory.
Rog

Date: 30 Sep 2006 18:32:13
From: AKA Gray Asphalt
Subject: Re: the instant power move -- anyone try it?

"warren montgomery" <wamontgomery@worldnet.att.net > wrote in message
news:uradne9tDqlDC4fYnZ2dnUVZ_tadnZ2d@comcast.com...
> The ober issue of Golf (which I think arrived in July or August) had a
> short feature on a swing move to add 30 yards to your shots. I'm
> naturally very suspicious of this kind of snake oil, but I'm also
> naturally curious enough to try some of these things. In this case the
> move is essentially rolling your wrists through impact. The author, a
> teaching pro billed as unconventional, says top players do it without
> thinking, but many others don't, and it's not taught by most teaching
> pros. So I tried it. I don't know that I got 30 yards, but I did get
> more consistent shots and fewer "power failure" fades. I don't buy the
> explanation that the article gives -- that the motion of closing the
> clubface through impact is responsible for significant extra clubhead
> speed at the point of impact -- but I suspect that what really happens in
> my case at least is that this forces me to accellerate all the way through
> impact instead of holding back and steering the club worrying more about
> the path and clubhead than just completing the swing. Anyway, I was
> curious what others who read the item thought
>
> --
> Warren Montgomery (wamontgomery@att.net)
> http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery

Kathy Whitworth gave a really good, imo, "personal lesson" on Golf Channel,
the other day. I remember her comment as being that the forearms turning
over, not the wrists, is what should close the clubhead. I remember her
saying that Harvey Pennick taught that. Didn't Hogan talk about supinating
and pronating the forearms or was it the wrists. Another example of
confusing although well meaning instruction, imo.