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Date: 28 Aug 2006 02:54:02
From: WhiteOut
Subject: findable lies?
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curious how you folks handle this:
you hit a shot, usually a drive, that goes into the rough, and you track
where it went. You use a mark or tree of some sort to remember the general
area. You get to the area, and you know that it would be findable, and you
take a minute or two to search, but in the interest of time, you go ahead a
drop one to keep moving. i'm not talking about deep heather or areas that
are clearly designed to strongly penalize you. i'm talking about basic
rough in between fairways or areas that are still designed to be
playable--you just dropped to keep the game moving.
do you take a stroke? (obviously i'm talking about friendly play). curious
to see how folks in this ng count it...
talk amongst yourselves...
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Date: 27 Aug 2006 23:36:08
From: sfb
Subject: Re: findable lies?
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As soon as you put lost and drop in the same sentence, you just walked off
the edge of the ROG.
"WhiteOut" <gofins@06.com > wrote in message
news:eVsIg.21151$gY6.4643@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
> curious how you folks handle this:
>
> you hit a shot, usually a drive, that goes into the rough, and you track
> where it went. You use a mark or tree of some sort to remember the
> general area. You get to the area, and you know that it would be
> findable, and you take a minute or two to search, but in the interest of
> time, you go ahead a drop one to keep moving. i'm not talking about deep
> heather or areas that are clearly designed to strongly penalize you. i'm
> talking about basic rough in between fairways or areas that are still
> designed to be playable--you just dropped to keep the game moving.
>
> do you take a stroke? (obviously i'm talking about friendly play).
> curious to see how folks in this ng count it...
>
> talk amongst yourselves...
>
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Date: 27 Aug 2006 22:06:31
From: Bobby Knight
Subject: Re: findable lies?
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On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 02:54:02 GMT, "WhiteOut" <gofins@06.com > wrote:
>curious how you folks handle this:
>
>you hit a shot, usually a drive, that goes into the rough, and you track
>where it went. You use a mark or tree of some sort to remember the general
>area. You get to the area, and you know that it would be findable, and you
>take a minute or two to search, but in the interest of time, you go ahead a
>drop one to keep moving. i'm not talking about deep heather or areas that
>are clearly designed to strongly penalize you. i'm talking about basic
>rough in between fairways or areas that are still designed to be
>playable--you just dropped to keep the game moving.
>
>do you take a stroke? (obviously i'm talking about friendly play). curious
>to see how folks in this ng count it...
>
>talk amongst yourselves...
>
Our group goes to the point where the ball was struck, adds a shot,
and hits again.
___,
\o
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Date: 28 Aug 2006 04:44:48
From: Peter Strauss
Subject: Re: findable lies?
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On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 22:06:31 -0500, Bobby Knight <bknight@conramp.net >
wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 02:54:02 GMT, "WhiteOut" <gofins@06.com> wrote:
>
> >curious how you folks handle this:
> >
> >you hit a shot, usually a drive, that goes into the rough, and you track
> >where it went. You use a mark or tree of some sort to remember the general
> >area. You get to the area, and you know that it would be findable, and you
> >take a minute or two to search, but in the interest of time, you go ahead a
> >drop one to keep moving. i'm not talking about deep heather or areas that
> >are clearly designed to strongly penalize you. i'm talking about basic
> >rough in between fairways or areas that are still designed to be
> >playable--you just dropped to keep the game moving.
> >
> >do you take a stroke? (obviously i'm talking about friendly play). curious
> >to see how folks in this ng count it...
> >
> >talk amongst yourselves...
> >
> Our group goes to the point where the ball was struck, adds a shot,
> and hits again.
I will always hit a provisional if there's any chance I won't be able
to find my ball. Others I play with drop and take 1 or 2 penalty
strokes; some will go back to where the ball was struck. I usually
don't go back, out of consideration for pace of play and the groups
behind me.
If I haven't taken a provisional ball, I might just drop out of the
hole, and follow the dictates of a USGA publication put out in 2000
called "Uncle Snoopy wants you to know how to use your Handicap" which
says, on p. 20:
> Q: If I pick up on a hole, what score do I post?
> US: For handicap purposes, record the score you most likely would have made -- BUT, that score must not exceed your Equitable Stroke Control limit.
HTH,
Peter
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Date: 28 Aug 2006 09:47:09
From: warren montgomery
Subject: Re: findable lies?
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> you hit a shot, usually a drive, that goes into the rough, and you track
> where it went. You use a mark or tree of some sort to remember the
> general area. You get to the area, and you know that it would be
> findable, and you take a minute or two to search, but in the interest of
> time, you go ahead a drop one to keep moving. i'm not talking about deep
> heather or areas that are clearly designed to strongly penalize you. i'm
> talking about basic rough in between fairways or areas that are still
> designed to be playable--you just dropped to keep the game moving.
>
> do you take a stroke? (obviously i'm talking about friendly play).
> curious to see how folks in this ng count it...
>
Depends on the game I'm playing. In any competition governed by the rules
of golf you've got no alternative but to take stroke and distance --
dropping where you thought it should be is no good. That's why I DQed
myself a couple of weeks ago when I couldn't figure out whether the spot I
was was OB or not and going back to take stroke and distance would have
caused undo delay (and I wasn't in contention in the event). I play in a
league which has a league rule for this situation -- drop a ball, one stroke
penalty. I suspect a lot of leagues do that just in the interest of time.
(Why is it that golf leagues often play so slowly even with rules like
this?) If I'm not playing for anything except practice I'll drop and add
two strokes if it's not feasible to go back, and I don't feel bad about
posting the score since after OB or lost ball the score on the hole is
almost certain to be "all I can eat" no matter how I proceed) I'd say
that's a very rare occurance though -- once in 10 or more rounds. When
there's any doubt about finding it, just hit a provisional. I realize
though that sometimes balls do disappear in areas where you expect to find
them. (More often than not though it's because some playing an adjacent
hole isn't paying any attention and picks it up.)
--
Warren Montgomery (wamontgomery@att.net)
http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery
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Date: 29 Aug 2006 03:09:13
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: findable lies?
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On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 09:47:09 -0500, "warren montgomery"
<wamontgomery@worldnet.att.net > wrote:
> I play in a
>league which has a league rule for this situation -- drop a ball, one stroke
>penalty.
My league has the same rule - except for the championship tournament.
Look for the ball in the native grass for one minute only, take a drop
in the first cut, and add 1 stroke. I contend one stroke is too
little, it should be 2.
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Date: 28 Aug 2006 12:00:24
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: findable lies?
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On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 02:54:02 GMT, "WhiteOut" <gofins@06.com > wrote:
>you hit a shot, usually a drive, that goes into the rough, and you track
>where it went. You use a mark or tree of some sort to remember the general
>area. You get to the area, and you know that it would be findable, and you
>take a minute or two to search, but in the interest of time, you go ahead a
>drop one to keep moving. i'm not talking about deep heather or areas that
>are clearly designed to strongly penalize you. i'm talking about basic
>rough in between fairways or areas that are still designed to be
>playable--you just dropped to keep the game moving.
>
>do you take a stroke? (obviously i'm talking about friendly play). curious
>to see how folks in this ng count it...
You are not playing by the Rules of Golf, so whatever you do is by
your rules. But sometimes consideration to others means you don't
go back and take stroke and distance if you aren't playing in a
tournament or if you haven't made an agreement with your golf buddies
what rules you are playing by. In this case, I pretend that I took
stroke and distance - I toss the ball (dropping implies I followed
rules), and add *two* strokes. One stroke is the penalty, and the
2nd is the replacement shot.
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Date: 27 Aug 2006 23:07:21
From: johnty
Subject: Re: findable lies?
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sfb wrote:
> As soon as you put lost and drop in the same sentence, you just walked off
> the edge of the ROG.
Unless the sentence also contains the word obstruction. Or Tiger.
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Date: 28 Aug 2006 15:31:07
From: david s-a
Subject: Re: findable lies?
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WhiteOut wrote:
> curious how you folks handle this:
>
<snipped >
>
> do you take a stroke? (obviously i'm talking about friendly play). curious
> to see how folks in this ng count it...
>
> talk amongst yourselves...
>
>
In a friendly do anything you like. If I were to dictate a rule to
change the current 'stroke and distance' rules I would take a drop on
the fairway at a point equal to where the ball is likely to be in the
rough or where I had started searching for my ball, which ever is
farther back.. For this I would earn two penalty strokes unless I had
failed to play a provisional ball, in which case the penalty would be
three strokes! I would have to change the 'ball in play' rule so that
the provisional remains in play while in sight, regardless of whether
you have dropped a ball or not.
cheers
david
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Date: 28 Aug 2006 12:02:46
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: findable lies?
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On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 15:31:07 +1000, david s-a
<dsantwyk@bigpond.net.au > wrote:
> For this I would earn two penalty strokes unless I had
>failed to play a provisional ball, in which case the penalty would be
>three strokes!
Funny. What happens when you hit the ball in the middle of the
fairway, or over a hill down the middle of where you aim - and nobody
expects the ball to be lost?
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Date: 28 Aug 2006 16:30:40
From: dsc
Subject: Re: findable lies?
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Howard Brazee wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 02:54:02 GMT, "WhiteOut" <gofins@06.com> wrote:
>
> >you hit a shot, usually a drive, that goes into the rough, and you track
> >where it went. You use a mark or tree of some sort to remember the general
> >area. You get to the area, and you know that it would be findable, and you
> >take a minute or two to search, but in the interest of time, you go ahead a
> >drop one to keep moving. i'm not talking about deep heather or areas that
> >are clearly designed to strongly penalize you. i'm talking about basic
> >rough in between fairways or areas that are still designed to be
> >playable--you just dropped to keep the game moving.
> >
> >do you take a stroke? (obviously i'm talking about friendly play). curious
> >to see how folks in this ng count it...
>
We had one of these yesterday. Two of us hit hooks around a tree off
the tee towards our 15th green (it is a dog leg left. We only found one
of them. They should have both been findable. he offered to go back to
the tee, but we told him to just drop one, with a stroke and proceed.
> You are not playing by the Rules of Golf, so whatever you do is by
> your rules. But sometimes consideration to others means you don't
> go back and take stroke and distance if you aren't playing in a
> tournament or if you haven't made an agreement with your golf buddies
> what rules you are playing by. In this case, I pretend that I took
> stroke and distance - I toss the ball (dropping implies I followed
> rules), and add *two* strokes. One stroke is the penalty, and the
> 2nd is the replacement shot.
Acceptable...
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Date: 28 Aug 2006 23:20:22
From: Dave Lee
Subject: Re: findable lies?
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"WhiteOut" <gofins@06.com > wrote in message
news:eVsIg.21151$gY6.4643@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
> curious how you folks handle this:
>
> you hit a shot, usually a drive, that goes into the rough, and you track
> where it went. You use a mark or tree of some sort to remember the
general
> area. You get to the area, and you know that it would be findable, and
you
> take a minute or two to search, but in the interest of time, you go ahead
a
> drop one to keep moving. i'm not talking about deep heather or areas that
> are clearly designed to strongly penalize you. i'm talking about basic
> rough in between fairways or areas that are still designed to be
> playable--you just dropped to keep the game moving.
>
> do you take a stroke? (obviously i'm talking about friendly play).
curious
> to see how folks in this ng count it...
>
> talk amongst yourselves...
>
>
for the case of a ball lost when no provisional was hit....
Among the golfers that I play with (almost always in some kind of team
competition), if the ball counts against the team score you go back (stroke
and distance). If (as is often the case) it is unlikely that this ball will
help the team score, the golfer might take a drop and most likely record his
ESC.
dave
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Date: 28 Aug 2006 20:29:29
From: Prilosec
Subject: Re: findable lies?
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This sounds like the "North American Leaf Rule", which is not really a rule
but a commonly used convention of losing a ball when there are a lot of
leaves on the course in an area where you are pretty sure it came to rest
and that area is in play. You take a stroke and drop as near to where you
all agree you probably landed.
Like others said, though, this and your proposal are not in the Rules of
Golf.
"WhiteOut" <gofins@06.com > wrote in message
news:eVsIg.21151$gY6.4643@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
> curious how you folks handle this:
>
> you hit a shot, usually a drive, that goes into the rough, and you track
> where it went. You use a mark or tree of some sort to remember the
> general area. You get to the area, and you know that it would be
> findable, and you take a minute or two to search, but in the interest of
> time, you go ahead a drop one to keep moving. i'm not talking about deep
> heather or areas that are clearly designed to strongly penalize you. i'm
> talking about basic rough in between fairways or areas that are still
> designed to be playable--you just dropped to keep the game moving.
>
> do you take a stroke? (obviously i'm talking about friendly play).
> curious to see how folks in this ng count it...
>
> talk amongst yourselves...
>
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Date: 28 Aug 2006 11:30:05
From: John B.
Subject: Re: findable lies?
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Harrison Bergeron wrote:
> "johnty" <johnty1@hotmail.com> writes:
>
> > WhiteOut wrote:
> > > curious how you folks handle this:
> > >
> > > ... You use a mark or tree of some sort to remember the general
> > > area. You get to the area, and you know that it would be findable, and you
> > > take a minute or two to search, but in the interest of time, you go ahead a
> > > drop one to keep moving.
> >
> > Ah yes, in the great tradition of muni golf, go ahead of where you've
> > been searching -- about 50 yards ought to be enough -- and drop another
> > ball.
>
> If it was a new ball can I go ahead 75 yards?
>
> --
>
>
If I look behind me and see four guys stanidng on the tee box staring
at me, I'm going to drop, add a stroke and get out of there.
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Date: 29 Aug 2006 03:09:45
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: findable lies?
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On 28 Aug 2006 11:30:05 -0700, "John B." <johnb505@gmail.com > wrote:
>If I look behind me and see four guys stanidng on the tee box staring
>at me, I'm going to drop, add a stroke and get out of there.
Why not add 2 strokes?
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Date: 28 Aug 2006 11:15:44
From: johnty
Subject: Re: findable lies?
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WhiteOut wrote:
> curious how you folks handle this:
>
> ... You use a mark or tree of some sort to remember the general
> area. You get to the area, and you know that it would be findable, and you
> take a minute or two to search, but in the interest of time, you go ahead a
> drop one to keep moving.
Ah yes, in the great tradition of muni golf, go ahead of where you've
been searching -- about 50 yards ought to be enough -- and drop another
ball.
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Date: 28 Aug 2006 13:19:31
From: Harrison Bergeron
Subject: Re: findable lies?
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"johnty" <johnty1@hotmail.com > writes:
> WhiteOut wrote:
> > curious how you folks handle this:
> >
> > ... You use a mark or tree of some sort to remember the general
> > area. You get to the area, and you know that it would be findable, and you
> > take a minute or two to search, but in the interest of time, you go ahead a
> > drop one to keep moving.
>
> Ah yes, in the great tradition of muni golf, go ahead of where you've
> been searching -- about 50 yards ought to be enough -- and drop another
> ball.
If it was a new ball can I go ahead 75 yards?
--
<-- Harry -- >
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Date: 28 Aug 2006 14:58:18
From: John van der Pflum
Subject: Re: findable lies?
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On 28 Aug 2006 13:19:31 -0500, Harrison Bergeron
<not_a_valid@address.com > wrote:
>"johnty" <johnty1@hotmail.com> writes:
>
>> WhiteOut wrote:
>> > curious how you folks handle this:
>> >
>> > ... You use a mark or tree of some sort to remember the general
>> > area. You get to the area, and you know that it would be findable, and you
>> > take a minute or two to search, but in the interest of time, you go ahead a
>> > drop one to keep moving.
>>
>> Ah yes, in the great tradition of muni golf, go ahead of where you've
>> been searching -- about 50 yards ought to be enough -- and drop another
>> ball.
>
>If it was a new ball can I go ahead 75 yards?
Only if it's a Pro V
--
jvdp
The only way to beat me is to make a hole in one
http://www.rsgcincinnati.com
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Date: 28 Aug 2006 23:26:06
From: johnty
Subject: Re: findable lies?
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Prilosec wrote:
> This sounds like the "North American Leaf Rule", which is not really a rule
> but a commonly used convention of losing a ball when there are a lot of
> leaves on the course in an area where you are pretty sure it came to rest
> and that area is in play. You take a stroke and drop as near to where you
> all agree you probably landed.
> Like others said, though, this and your proposal are not in the Rules of
> Golf.
Not exactly. It is a decision, 33-8/31, and is based on GUR rule 25.
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Date: 29 Aug 2006 15:26:00
From: dsc
Subject: Re: findable lies?
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Prilosec wrote:
> This sounds like the "North American Leaf Rule", which is not really a rule
> but a commonly used convention of losing a ball when there are a lot of
> leaves on the course in an area where you are pretty sure it came to rest
> and that area is in play. You take a stroke and drop as near to where you
> all agree you probably landed.
> Like others said, though, this and your proposal are not in the Rules of
IMO following any established local rule is following the rules of
golf... regareless if the rule is unusual or even stupid. At the course
I learned on the owner had a local rule that you had to drop from
around small (young) trees. He didn't want you hacking them up. It's
his course...
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Date: 30 Aug 2006 06:02:40
From: Peter Strauss
Subject: Re: findable lies?
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On 29 Aug 2006 15:26:00 -0700, "dsc" <Dudley.Cornman@eku.edu > wrote:
> Prilosec wrote:
> > This sounds like the "North American Leaf Rule", which is not really a rule
> > but a commonly used convention of losing a ball when there are a lot of
> > leaves on the course in an area where you are pretty sure it came to rest
> > and that area is in play. You take a stroke and drop as near to where you
> > all agree you probably landed.
> > Like others said, though, this and your proposal are not in the Rules of
>
> IMO following any established local rule is following the rules of
> golf... regareless if the rule is unusual or even stupid. At the course
> I learned on the owner had a local rule that you had to drop from
> around small (young) trees. He didn't want you hacking them up. It's
> his course...
See Appendix I, Section 5, Paragraph e.
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