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Main
Date: 22 Aug 2006 01:39:41
From: multi
Subject: You didn't know this about Hogan
|
Pop quiz:
1. Ben Hogan won the Masters, US Open, and British Open in 1953, but
didn't enter the PGA. Why not?
Spoiler space
Nope, you're wrong.
My mystical powers tell me that your answer was, "The dates
conflicted." It's true, the PGA did conflict with the British Open
that year. But that's not why Hogan didn't enter the PGA.
He didn't enter the PGA because he wasn't able to play it. The match
play format involved five days of 36-hole matches. That's 180 holes
for the finalists, not counting possible playoff holes in each match.
After his accident in 1949, Ben could barely manage 72 holes, and not
very often --- in fact, he never played more than seven events a year.
Despite that, he won six majors in the four years after his bus crash.
Although Hogan won the PGA the year before his accident, he didn't
play it again until 1960, two years after it became a 72-hole stroke
play event. He couldn't have played the PGA in 1953, even if the
British Open had been held in December.
2. OK, since he couldn't play the PGA, he was free to play the Open
every year. How many times did he play it, and how many times did he
win it?
Spoiler space
If you said one and one, you're right. The Open was small potatoes
then, and even if you won, you probably wouldn't make enough to cover
your expenses. He only played it that one time, in 1953, and he won.
3. So who was the first guy to play all four majors every year (until
he got too old to compete)?
You know who. Not Arnie. Jack. Jack, the guy who says he could have
won more majors if he had wanted to; the guy who apparently would
rather be remembered as a goof-off, than as second best to Tiger.
Arnie revitalized the Open, but he skipped 9 or 10 of them during his
prime (depending on how long you think his prime was), including 1958
and 1959, when he finished first and third in the Masters, and 5th in
the US Open. He also won the first two majors of 1960, so he was hot
then. But he wasn't obsessed with majors, like Jack.
So the next time Jack complains about how many more majors he could
have won if he had felt like trying, remember that he's the first
American pro who went off to England or Scotland every summer to chase
majors, from his very first year on tour. Then remember Ben Hogan,
the Bantam, the Hawk, who only played one Open in his life, who
couldn't play the PGA while he was playing his best golf, who had a
dozen majors cancelled out from under him during WWII, and who then
was nearly killed, and was permanently crippled, in a horrific bus
accident.
And don't get me started on Vardon.
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Date: 22 Aug 2006 20:09:53
From: annika1980
Subject: Re: You didn't know this about Hogan
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Bow Tie wrote:
>
> 2. I think Chris is right that Hogan went over on an ocean liner.
>
No, that was Bobby Jones.
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Date: 23 Aug 2006 03:37:18
From: Chris Bellomy
Subject: Re: You didn't know this about Hogan
|
annika1980 <annika1980@aol.com > wrote:
:
: Bow Tie wrote:
: >
: > 2. I think Chris is right that Hogan went over on an ocean liner.
:
: No, that was Bobby Jones.
My research on this was inconclusive. All I came up with from
the Sampson bio was this, about his arrival in New York afterward:
The USS _United States_ glided majestically on the
morning high tide past the Statue of Liberty. Sirens
from police launches filled the air, and fireboats
squirted water in glistening arcs. The ship docked
at Pier 86 at 8:15 a.m. Down on the dock, reporters,
photographers, newsreel cameramen, TV people, and a
police detail awaited. Welcome Hogan signs decked
the West Forty-Sixth Street pier.
The Hogans disembarked and the police escort whisked
them to the Park Lane Hotel at Forty-Eighth and Park.
It doesn't seem likely to me that they boarded a ship in
Brooklyn just to make a grand entrance in the harbor. Trans-
atlantic air service in those days required stops in New-
foundland and/or Ireland, and travel time was over 20 hours.
It seems unlikely to me that Hogan would have subjected him-
self to this, but I guess it's possible.
--
Chris Bellomy
C-List Charter Member
http://clist.org/
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Date: 22 Aug 2006 20:56:20
From: multi
Subject: Re: You didn't know this about Hogan
|
On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 03:37:18 GMT, Chris Bellomy
<puevf@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid > wrote:
>annika1980 <annika1980@aol.com> wrote:
>:
>: Bow Tie wrote:
>: >
>: > 2. I think Chris is right that Hogan went over on an ocean liner.
>:
>: No, that was Bobby Jones.
>
>My research on this was inconclusive.
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0HFI/is_7_50/ai_54948986
The date: Monday, June 22, 1953. The place: Idlewild Airport, New York
City. Reigning Masters champion Ben Hogan, recently crowned U.S. Open
champion for a fourth time, is addressing the media just before
boarding the plane that will carry him, his wife and fellow competitor
Frank Stranahan to Scotland for the British Open.
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Date: 23 Aug 2006 00:16:43
From:
Subject: Re: You didn't know this about Hogan
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multi wrote:
> >My research on this was inconclusive.
>
> http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0HFI/is_7_50/ai_54948986
> The date: Monday, June 22, 1953. The place: Idlewild Airport, New York
> City. Reigning Masters champion Ben Hogan, recently crowned U.S. Open
> champion for a fourth time, is addressing the media just before
> boarding the plane that will carry him, his wife and fellow competitor
> Frank Stranahan to Scotland for the British Open.
Nobody is interested in your facts, multi. It's much more romantic to
say that Hogan rowed his way across the Atlantic in shark-infested
waters, allowing Valerie to row while he slept for 2 hours a day and
hit balls off the side of the rowboat. She veered off course a few
times, narrowly missing Iceland on one occasion. That's why they
called him the "Wee Ice Mon." Duh.
On the voyage home her navigational skills improved.
"Just follow the sun," Ben told her.
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Date: 23 Aug 2006 04:05:28
From: Chris Bellomy
Subject: Re: You didn't know this about Hogan
|
multi <multi@asm.org > wrote:
: On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 03:37:18 GMT, Chris Bellomy
: <puevf@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid > wrote:
: >annika1980 <annika1980@aol.com> wrote:
: >:
: >: Bow Tie wrote:
: >: >
: >: > 2. I think Chris is right that Hogan went over on an ocean liner.
: >:
: >: No, that was Bobby Jones.
: >
: >My research on this was inconclusive.
:
: http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0HFI/is_7_50/ai_54948986
: The date: Monday, June 22, 1953. The place: Idlewild Airport, New York
: City. Reigning Masters champion Ben Hogan, recently crowned U.S. Open
: champion for a fourth time, is addressing the media just before
: boarding the plane that will carry him, his wife and fellow competitor
: Frank Stranahan to Scotland for the British Open.
Nice work!
--
Chris Bellomy
C-List Charter Member
http://clist.org/
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Date: 23 Aug 2006 00:18:23
From:
Subject: Re: You didn't know this about Hogan
|
On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 04:05:28 GMT, Chris Bellomy
<puevf@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid > wrote:
>:
>: http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0HFI/is_7_50/ai_54948986
>: The date: Monday, June 22, 1953. The place: Idlewild Airport, New York
>: City. Reigning Masters champion Ben Hogan, recently crowned U.S. Open
>: champion for a fourth time, is addressing the media just before
>: boarding the plane that will carry him, his wife and fellow competitor
>: Frank Stranahan to Scotland for the British Open.
>
>Nice work!
Allow me to quote Mrs. Annika:
"And that would make me what? RIGHT!"
"And that would make you what?"
Bitch.
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Date: 23 Aug 2006 04:29:14
From: Chris Bellomy
Subject: Re: You didn't know this about Hogan
|
annika1980@aol.com wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 04:05:28 GMT, Chris Bellomy
> <puevf@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>>:
>>: http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0HFI/is_7_50/ai_54948986
>>: The date: Monday, June 22, 1953. The place: Idlewild Airport, New York
>>: City. Reigning Masters champion Ben Hogan, recently crowned U.S. Open
>>: champion for a fourth time, is addressing the media just before
>>: boarding the plane that will carry him, his wife and fellow competitor
>>: Frank Stranahan to Scotland for the British Open.
>>
>>Nice work!
>
> Allow me to quote Mrs. Annika:
>
> "And that would make me what? RIGHT!"
> "And that would make you what?"
>
> Bitch.
I believe it would also make you 1FY short. Still.
Dickhead.
--
Chris Bellomy
C-List Charter Member
http://clist.org/
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Date: 22 Aug 2006 19:31:33
From: Bow Tie
Subject: Re: You didn't know this about Hogan
|
I'm drawing on years of dealing with this clown. I forgot more about
the game than he'll ever know.
Ken
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The World Wide Wade wrote:
> In article
> <1156295188.775204.294660@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,
> "Bow Tie" <ken_pittsjr@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Quit wasting time on this stuff. You have no idea what you are talking
> > about.
>
> Actually it was a pretty interesting point - which is probably
> why you didn't like it. By the way, if multi didn't know what he
> was talking about, then you'll have no trouble pointing out the
> errors. We're waiting ...
>
> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > multi wrote:
> > > Pop quiz:
> > > 1. Ben Hogan won the Masters, US Open, and British Open in 1953, but
> > > didn't enter the PGA. Why not?
> > >
> > >
> > > Spoiler space
> > <whatever>>
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Date: 22 Aug 2006 22:12:22
From: The World Wide Wade
Subject: Re: You didn't know this about Hogan
|
In article
<1156300293.844363.282580@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com >,
"Bow Tie" <ken_pittsjr@yahoo.com > wrote:
> I'm drawing on years of dealing with this clown. I forgot more about
> the game than he'll ever know.
The evidence so far suggests otherwise. You wrote "You have no
idea what you are talking about" to multi but so far your
contribution on the topic has been less than zero. What is the
point of all the spittle you're spraying around?
> Ken
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
> The World Wide Wade wrote:
> > In article
> > <1156295188.775204.294660@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,
> > "Bow Tie" <ken_pittsjr@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Quit wasting time on this stuff. You have no idea what you are talking
> > > about.
> >
> > Actually it was a pretty interesting point - which is probably
> > why you didn't like it. By the way, if multi didn't know what he
> > was talking about, then you'll have no trouble pointing out the
> > errors. We're waiting ...
> >
> > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > > multi wrote:
> > > > Pop quiz:
> > > > 1. Ben Hogan won the Masters, US Open, and British Open in 1953, but
> > > > didn't enter the PGA. Why not?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Spoiler space
> > > <whatever>>
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Date: 23 Aug 2006 00:38:52
From: multi
Subject: Re: You didn't know this about Hogan
|
On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 22:12:22 -0700, The World Wide Wade
<waderameyxiii@comcast.remove13.net > wrote:
>In article
><1156300293.844363.282580@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> "Bow Tie" <ken_pittsjr@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm drawing on years of dealing with this clown. I forgot more about
>> the game than he'll ever know.
>
>The evidence so far suggests otherwise. You wrote "You have no
>idea what you are talking about" to multi but so far your
>contribution on the topic has been less than zero. What is the
>point of all the spittle you're spraying around?
I'll stand by my past posts. If Pitts is drawing on his years of
experience with me, he should have a boatload of examples of factual
errors I've made. I'd be interested in seeing a few.
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Date: 22 Aug 2006 19:29:14
From: Bow Tie
Subject: Re: You didn't know this about Hogan
|
Exactly Palmer and Mark McCormick invented the sports endorsement.
Multi should be working on his resume anyhow.
Ken
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
The World Wide Wade wrote:
> But Palmer was wealthy by 1964. And by 1967 he had his own jet,
> etc. Money was the reason? Hard to believe.
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Date: 22 Aug 2006 22:54:53
From: sfb
Subject: Re: You didn't know this about Hogan
|
Made a truck load of money maybe, but certainly didn't event sports
endorsements.
"Bow Tie" <ken_pittsjr@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1156300154.113911.81730@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
> Exactly Palmer and Mark McCormick invented the sports endorsement.
>
> Multi should be working on his resume anyhow.
>
> Ken
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++
> The World Wide Wade wrote:
>
>> But Palmer was wealthy by 1964. And by 1967 he had his own jet,
>> etc. Money was the reason? Hard to believe.
>
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Date: 22 Aug 2006 19:06:00
From: Bow Tie
Subject: Re: You didn't know this about Hogan
|
1. I'm from Fort Worth like Hogan and Nelson. Never heard a single nice
thing about Hogan as a person. The guy who taught me the game (same age
group) knew him on a number of levels. Neer heard anything but good
about Nelson.
2. I think Chris is right that Hogan went over on an ocean liner.
Ken
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
annika1980 wrote:
> Chris Bellomy wrote:
>
> > :
> > : That is only partially true. He stayed in Europe to play some
> > : exhibitions that were paying him more than he could've made in the PGA.
> >
> > I'm pretty sure that's not true -- he came straight home to a ticker
> > tape parade in Manhattan.
>
> After flying to Paris for an exhibition.
>
> >
> > One other thing multi didn't mention is that travel to the UK in
> > 1953 was still accomplished by boat rather than plane. So one had
> > to budget days to get there rather than hours.
>
> Don't be silly. He flew over from New York to Europe along with Frank
> Stranahan.
> After he won the Open he was asked if he wanted to go see The Old
> Course only a few miles away. "Why?" he asked. "Maybe if it's clear
> when we take off I'll look at it out the window," he remarked. Hogan
> remains the only great player to have never seen The Old Course ......
> besides me, of course.
>
> Another little-known fact about Hogan was that he was really a helluva
> nice guy. Right, BK?
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Date: 22 Aug 2006 18:06:28
From: Bow Tie
Subject: Re: You didn't know this about Hogan
|
Quit wasting time on this stuff. You have no idea what you are talking
about.
Find a job and earn some money. Then you won't have to worry when the
VA cancels your dor's appointment.
Ken
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
multi wrote:
> Pop quiz:
> 1. Ben Hogan won the Masters, US Open, and British Open in 1953, but
> didn't enter the PGA. Why not?
>
>
> Spoiler space
<whatever >>
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Date: 22 Aug 2006 19:27:59
From: The World Wide Wade
Subject: Re: You didn't know this about Hogan
|
In article
<1156295188.775204.294660@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com >,
"Bow Tie" <ken_pittsjr@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Quit wasting time on this stuff. You have no idea what you are talking
> about.
Actually it was a pretty interesting point - which is probably
why you didn't like it. By the way, if multi didn't know what he
was talking about, then you'll have no trouble pointing out the
errors. We're waiting ...
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> multi wrote:
> > Pop quiz:
> > 1. Ben Hogan won the Masters, US Open, and British Open in 1953, but
> > didn't enter the PGA. Why not?
> >
> >
> > Spoiler space
> <whatever>>
|
| |
Date: 22 Aug 2006 16:37:25
From: The World Wide Wade
Subject: Re: You didn't know this about Hogan
|
In article <bacle29a2gf0pbeghgimdc12l9712vdhif@4ax.com >,
multi <multi@asm.org > wrote:
> Arnie revitalized the Open, but he skipped 9 or 10 of them during his
> prime (depending on how long you think his prime was)
Well, his prime probably went from something like 1957 to 1971.
He skipped three Opens, 57-59. Any others in this range?
|
| | |
Date: 22 Aug 2006 16:55:29
From: multi
Subject: Re: You didn't know this about Hogan
|
On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 16:37:25 -0700, The World Wide Wade
<waderameyxiii@comcast.remove13.net > wrote:
>In article <bacle29a2gf0pbeghgimdc12l9712vdhif@4ax.com>,
> multi <multi@asm.org> wrote:
>
>> Arnie revitalized the Open, but he skipped 9 or 10 of them during his
>> prime (depending on how long you think his prime was)
>
>Well, his prime probably went from something like 1957 to 1971.
>He skipped three Opens, 57-59. Any others in this range?
64, 67, 69, 71. And I'd define his prime either as 1955-1977, the
years he got top tens in majors, or 1955-1973, the years he won PGA
events. So throw in 1955, 1956, and maybe 1974. Like I said, 9 or
10.
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Date: 22 Aug 2006 17:22:24
From: The World Wide Wade
Subject: Re: You didn't know this about Hogan
|
In article <2n5ne2p742sgqkf5ci9d7329rojovmvrl6@4ax.com >,
multi <multi@asm.org > wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 16:37:25 -0700, The World Wide Wade
> <waderameyxiii@comcast.remove13.net> wrote:
>
> >In article <bacle29a2gf0pbeghgimdc12l9712vdhif@4ax.com>,
> > multi <multi@asm.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Arnie revitalized the Open, but he skipped 9 or 10 of them during his
> >> prime (depending on how long you think his prime was)
> >
> >Well, his prime probably went from something like 1957 to 1971.
> >He skipped three Opens, 57-59. Any others in this range?
>
> 64, 67, 69, 71. And I'd define his prime either as 1955-1977, the
> years he got top tens in majors, or 1955-1973, the years he won PGA
> events. So throw in 1955, 1956, and maybe 1974. Like I said, 9 or
> 10.
You're too generous with his prime, IMHO. But that's interesting
he missed the Opens in 64, 67, 69, 71. I wonder why that
happened. It was Palmer who had the idea of the 4 modern majors
to begin with.
|
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Date: 22 Aug 2006 17:59:33
From: multi
Subject: Re: You didn't know this about Hogan
|
On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 17:22:24 -0700, The World Wide Wade
<waderameyxiii@comcast.remove13.net > wrote:
>In article <2n5ne2p742sgqkf5ci9d7329rojovmvrl6@4ax.com>,
> multi <multi@asm.org> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 16:37:25 -0700, The World Wide Wade
>> <waderameyxiii@comcast.remove13.net> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <bacle29a2gf0pbeghgimdc12l9712vdhif@4ax.com>,
>> > multi <multi@asm.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Arnie revitalized the Open, but he skipped 9 or 10 of them during his
>> >> prime (depending on how long you think his prime was)
>> >
>> >Well, his prime probably went from something like 1957 to 1971.
>> >He skipped three Opens, 57-59. Any others in this range?
>>
>> 64, 67, 69, 71. And I'd define his prime either as 1955-1977, the
>> years he got top tens in majors, or 1955-1973, the years he won PGA
>> events. So throw in 1955, 1956, and maybe 1974. Like I said, 9 or
>> 10.
>
>You're too generous with his prime, IMHO. But that's interesting
>he missed the Opens in 64, 67, 69, 71. I wonder why that
>happened. It was Palmer who had the idea of the 4 modern majors
>to begin with.
Because you were almost guaranteed to lose money playing it. In the
early 60's, you got $20K for winning the Masters, and about $3K for
winning the Open. You just about had to win it to make money, and
sometimes not even then. In 1965, Jack finished 12th in the Open, and
won a whopping 132 pounds, or about $370. I don't know what a
transatlantic airline ticket cost back then, but I'm sure the travel,
food, and lodging for Jack and his caddie came to more than that.
|
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Date: 22 Aug 2006 19:27:19
From: The World Wide Wade
Subject: Re: You didn't know this about Hogan
|
In article <8n8ne2d6t57ho5o03smudnaaskd8e6a3gm@4ax.com >,
multi <multi@asm.org > wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 17:22:24 -0700, The World Wide Wade
> <waderameyxiii@comcast.remove13.net> wrote:
>
> >In article <2n5ne2p742sgqkf5ci9d7329rojovmvrl6@4ax.com>,
> > multi <multi@asm.org> wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 16:37:25 -0700, The World Wide Wade
> >> <waderameyxiii@comcast.remove13.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >In article <bacle29a2gf0pbeghgimdc12l9712vdhif@4ax.com>,
> >> > multi <multi@asm.org> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Arnie revitalized the Open, but he skipped 9 or 10 of them during his
> >> >> prime (depending on how long you think his prime was)
> >> >
> >> >Well, his prime probably went from something like 1957 to 1971.
> >> >He skipped three Opens, 57-59. Any others in this range?
> >>
> >> 64, 67, 69, 71. And I'd define his prime either as 1955-1977, the
> >> years he got top tens in majors, or 1955-1973, the years he won PGA
> >> events. So throw in 1955, 1956, and maybe 1974. Like I said, 9 or
> >> 10.
> >
> >You're too generous with his prime, IMHO. But that's interesting
> >he missed the Opens in 64, 67, 69, 71. I wonder why that
> >happened. It was Palmer who had the idea of the 4 modern majors
> >to begin with.
>
> Because you were almost guaranteed to lose money playing it. In the
> early 60's, you got $20K for winning the Masters, and about $3K for
> winning the Open. You just about had to win it to make money, and
> sometimes not even then. In 1965, Jack finished 12th in the Open, and
> won a whopping 132 pounds, or about $370. I don't know what a
> transatlantic airline ticket cost back then, but I'm sure the travel,
> food, and lodging for Jack and his caddie came to more than that.
But Palmer was wealthy by 1964. And by 1967 he had his own jet,
etc. Money was the reason? Hard to believe.
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 22 Aug 2006 19:43:39
From: multi
Subject: Re: You didn't know this about Hogan
|
On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 19:27:19 -0700, The World Wide Wade
<waderameyxiii@comcast.remove13.net > wrote:
>But Palmer was wealthy by 1964. And by 1967 he had his own jet,
>etc. Money was the reason? Hard to believe.
If you follow politics at all, you know that millionaires are as tight
with a buck as anyone. After the majors became THE MAJORS, it was
worth the money to play the Open. In the 60's, I think it was just a
vanity thing. Hogan had to be persuaded to go by an appeal to his
place in history, and once there, he wasn't interested in taking a
short side-trip to see St. Andrews.
But I admit that my answer was speculation. If you have a better
explanation, I'll be happy to read it.
|
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Date: 22 Aug 2006 14:38:35
From: Scott M. Kozel
Subject: Re: You didn't know this about Hogan
|
annika1980 wrote:
>
> Chris Bellomy wrote:
>
> > : That is only partially true. He stayed in Europe to play some
> > : exhibitions that were paying him more than he could've made in the PGA.
> >
> > I'm pretty sure that's not true -- he came straight home to a ticker
> > tape parade in Manhattan.
>
> After flying to Paris for an exhibition.
>
> > One other thing multi didn't mention is that travel to the UK in
> > 1953 was still accomplished by boat rather than plane. So one had
> > to budget days to get there rather than hours.
>
> Don't be silly. He flew over from New York to Europe along with Frank
> Stranahan.
> After he won the Open he was asked if he wanted to go see The Old
> Course only a few miles away. "Why?" he asked. "Maybe if it's clear
> when we take off I'll look at it out the window," he remarked. Hogan
> remains the only great player to have never seen The Old Course ......
> besides me, of course.
There was limited commercial intercontinental air service before WWII,
but it proliferated after the war.
"Trans World Airlines opened post-war commercial intercontinental air
service on 6 February, 1946, with a New York - Paris flight in a
Constellation. On 17 June, 1947, Pan American World Airways opened the
first ever regularly-scheduled around-the-world service with their
L-749 Clipper America. The famous flight Pan-Am PA 101 remained in
service for 50 years".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Constellation
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Date: 22 Aug 2006 13:14:42
From: annika1980
Subject: Re: You didn't know this about Hogan
|
Bobby Knight wrote:
> >Another little-known fact about Hogan was that he was really a helluva
> >nice guy. Right, BK?
>
> A veritable prince of a fellow.
I wish you'd tell that story publicly. I've only heard snippets of it
second-hand.
|
| |
Date: 22 Aug 2006 12:50:45
From: annika1980
Subject: Re: You didn't know this about Hogan
|
Chris Bellomy wrote:
> :
> : That is only partially true. He stayed in Europe to play some
> : exhibitions that were paying him more than he could've made in the PGA.
>
> I'm pretty sure that's not true -- he came straight home to a ticker
> tape parade in Manhattan.
After flying to Paris for an exhibition.
>
> One other thing multi didn't mention is that travel to the UK in
> 1953 was still accomplished by boat rather than plane. So one had
> to budget days to get there rather than hours.
Don't be silly. He flew over from New York to Europe along with Frank
Stranahan.
After he won the Open he was asked if he wanted to go see The Old
Course only a few miles away. "Why?" he asked. "Maybe if it's clear
when we take off I'll look at it out the window," he remarked. Hogan
remains the only great player to have never seen The Old Course ......
besides me, of course.
Another little-known fact about Hogan was that he was really a helluva
nice guy. Right, BK?
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Date: 22 Aug 2006 15:04:24
From: Bobby Knight
Subject: Re: You didn't know this about Hogan
|
On 22 Aug 2006 12:50:45 -0700, "annika1980" <annika1980@aol.com >
wrote:
>
>Chris Bellomy wrote:
>
>> :
>> : That is only partially true. He stayed in Europe to play some
>> : exhibitions that were paying him more than he could've made in the PGA.
>>
>> I'm pretty sure that's not true -- he came straight home to a ticker
>> tape parade in Manhattan.
>
>After flying to Paris for an exhibition.
>
>>
>> One other thing multi didn't mention is that travel to the UK in
>> 1953 was still accomplished by boat rather than plane. So one had
>> to budget days to get there rather than hours.
>
>Don't be silly. He flew over from New York to Europe along with Frank
>Stranahan.
>After he won the Open he was asked if he wanted to go see The Old
>Course only a few miles away. "Why?" he asked. "Maybe if it's clear
>when we take off I'll look at it out the window," he remarked. Hogan
>remains the only great player to have never seen The Old Course ......
>besides me, of course.
>
>Another little-known fact about Hogan was that he was really a helluva
>nice guy. Right, BK?
A veritable prince of a fellow.
___,
\o
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Date: 22 Aug 2006 15:52:56
From: Chris Bellomy
Subject: Re: You didn't know this about Hogan
|
multi <multi@asm.org > wrote:
: Pop quiz:
: 1. Ben Hogan won the Masters, US Open, and British Open in 1953, but
: didn't enter the PGA. Why not?
Overlap with the PGA. This is pretty well known. Also, he couldn't
walk that many holes over that many days.
: 2. OK, since he couldn't play the PGA, he was free to play the Open
: every year. How many times did he play it, and how many times did he
: win it?
1/1
--
Chris Bellomy
C-List Charter Member
http://clist.org/
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Date: 22 Aug 2006 15:01:39
From: multi
Subject: Re: You didn't know this about Hogan
|
On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 15:52:56 GMT, Chris Bellomy
<puevf@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid > wrote:
>multi <multi@asm.org> wrote:
>: Pop quiz:
>: 1. Ben Hogan won the Masters, US Open, and British Open in 1953, but
>: didn't enter the PGA. Why not?
>
>Overlap with the PGA. This is pretty well known.
It is extremely well-known, and everybody who knows it is wrong. If
he was physically unable to play, the timing is irrelevant. I had to
attend a wedding the Saturday of last month's Open, but that's not why
I wasn't playing in it.
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Date: 23 Aug 2006 01:07:56
From: Chris Bellomy
Subject: Re: You didn't know this about Hogan
|
multi <multi@asm.org > wrote:
: On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 15:52:56 GMT, Chris Bellomy
: <puevf@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid > wrote:
:
: >multi <multi@asm.org> wrote:
: >: Pop quiz:
: >: 1. Ben Hogan won the Masters, US Open, and British Open in 1953, but
: >: didn't enter the PGA. Why not?
: >
: >Overlap with the PGA. This is pretty well known.
:
: It is extremely well-known, and everybody who knows it is wrong. If
: he was physically unable to play, the timing is irrelevant. I had to
: attend a wedding the Saturday of last month's Open, but that's not why
: I wasn't playing in it.
The inverse is also true, though. If the dates conflicted,
no amount of willed stamina would have gotten him into and
through the PGA. Right? I think the conflicting dates reason
is a lot more compelling because, unlike the stamina reason,
there is nothing he could have done to try to overcome it.
He *could* have tried his luck at the PGA if he had wanted
to endure the pain and risk the failure.
--
Chris Bellomy
C-List Charter Member
http://clist.org/
|
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Date: 22 Aug 2006 18:59:24
From: multi
Subject: Re: You didn't know this about Hogan
|
On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 01:07:56 GMT, Chris Bellomy
<puevf@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid > wrote:
>: >Overlap with the PGA. This is pretty well known.
>:
>: It is extremely well-known, and everybody who knows it is wrong. If
>: he was physically unable to play, the timing is irrelevant. I had to
>: attend a wedding the Saturday of last month's Open, but that's not why
>: I wasn't playing in it.
>
>The inverse is also true, though. If the dates conflicted,
>no amount of willed stamina would have gotten him into and
>through the PGA. Right? I think the conflicting dates reason
>is a lot more compelling because, unlike the stamina reason,
>there is nothing he could have done to try to overcome it.
>He *could* have tried his luck at the PGA if he had wanted
>to endure the pain and risk the failure.
That's a fair point, but I'll agree to disagree, because IMO the fact
that he *never* played the PGA (as match play) after his accident is
conclusive.
Lost in all this is the reason for the scheduling conflict in the
first place. These events are planned years in advance, so why would
they set them for the same week? I can think of two plausible
reasons: either at least one of them was not considered a major at
that time, so they didn't consider it important to avoid the conflict;
or the R&A was in a pissing match with the PGA, and each was trying to
establish its event as the more important, and refused to budge.
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| | | | | |
Date: 23 Aug 2006 02:22:56
From: Chris Bellomy
Subject: Re: You didn't know this about Hogan
|
multi <multi@asm.org > wrote:
: On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 01:07:56 GMT, Chris Bellomy
: <puevf@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid > wrote:
:
: >: >Overlap with the PGA. This is pretty well known.
: >:
: >: It is extremely well-known, and everybody who knows it is wrong. If
: >: he was physically unable to play, the timing is irrelevant. I had to
: >: attend a wedding the Saturday of last month's Open, but that's not why
: >: I wasn't playing in it.
: >
: >The inverse is also true, though. If the dates conflicted,
: >no amount of willed stamina would have gotten him into and
: >through the PGA. Right? I think the conflicting dates reason
: >is a lot more compelling because, unlike the stamina reason,
: >there is nothing he could have done to try to overcome it.
: >He *could* have tried his luck at the PGA if he had wanted
: >to endure the pain and risk the failure.
:
: That's a fair point, but I'll agree to disagree, because IMO the fact
: that he *never* played the PGA (as match play) after his accident is
: conclusive.
That's fine, too, I think your reasoning is sound.
: Lost in all this is the reason for the scheduling conflict in the
: first place. These events are planned years in advance, so why would
: they set them for the same week? I can think of two plausible
: reasons: either at least one of them was not considered a major at
: that time, so they didn't consider it important to avoid the conflict;
: or the R&A was in a pissing match with the PGA, and each was trying to
: establish its event as the more important, and refused to budge.
I'll take Door #3: the transportation and economics of that era
caused the two events to operate in separate but parallel universes.
Nobody was particularly interested in playing both.
--
Chris Bellomy
C-List Charter Member
http://clist.org/
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 22 Aug 2006 22:41:17
From: sfb
Subject: Re: You didn't know this about Hogan
|
After Sam Snead won his first and the only Open he ever entered in 1946, he
complained that the purse didn't cover his expenses.
"Chris Bellomy" <puevf@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid > wrote in message
news:0T3dj31pIidvN34@redshark.goodshow.net...
> multi <multi@asm.org> wrote:
> : On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 01:07:56 GMT, Chris Bellomy
> : <puevf@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid> wrote:
> :
> : >: >Overlap with the PGA. This is pretty well known.
> : >:
> : >: It is extremely well-known, and everybody who knows it is wrong. If
> : >: he was physically unable to play, the timing is irrelevant. I had to
> : >: attend a wedding the Saturday of last month's Open, but that's not
> why
> : >: I wasn't playing in it.
> : >
> : >The inverse is also true, though. If the dates conflicted,
> : >no amount of willed stamina would have gotten him into and
> : >through the PGA. Right? I think the conflicting dates reason
> : >is a lot more compelling because, unlike the stamina reason,
> : >there is nothing he could have done to try to overcome it.
> : >He *could* have tried his luck at the PGA if he had wanted
> : >to endure the pain and risk the failure.
> :
> : That's a fair point, but I'll agree to disagree, because IMO the fact
> : that he *never* played the PGA (as match play) after his accident is
> : conclusive.
>
> That's fine, too, I think your reasoning is sound.
>
> : Lost in all this is the reason for the scheduling conflict in the
> : first place. These events are planned years in advance, so why would
> : they set them for the same week? I can think of two plausible
> : reasons: either at least one of them was not considered a major at
> : that time, so they didn't consider it important to avoid the conflict;
> : or the R&A was in a pissing match with the PGA, and each was trying to
> : establish its event as the more important, and refused to budge.
>
> I'll take Door #3: the transportation and economics of that era
> caused the two events to operate in separate but parallel universes.
> Nobody was particularly interested in playing both.
>
> --
> Chris Bellomy
> C-List Charter Member
> http://clist.org/
|
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Date: 22 Aug 2006 20:13:13
From: multi
Subject: Re: You didn't know this about Hogan
|
On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 22:41:17 -0400, "sfb" <sfb@spam.net > wrote:
>After Sam Snead won his first and the only Open he ever entered in 1946, he
>complained that the purse didn't cover his expenses.
That was the only one he entered before 1962, but he played three more
if Wiki is right.
|
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Date: 23 Aug 2006 18:12:45
From: Steven Paul
Subject: Re: You didn't know this about Hogan
|
In article <cIednVcuPdrRXXbZnZ2dnUVZ_v-dnZ2d@comcast.com >, sfb
<sfb@spam.net > wrote:
> After Sam Snead won his first and the only Open he ever entered in 1946, he
> complained that the purse didn't cover his expenses.
After he won he described the experience as like "camping out."
|
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Date: 22 Aug 2006 07:19:34
From: annika1980
Subject: Re: You didn't know this about Hogan
|
multi wrote:
> My mystical powers tell me that your answer was, "The dates
> conflicted." It's true, the PGA did conflict with the British Open
> that year. But that's not why Hogan didn't enter the PGA.
>
> He didn't enter the PGA because he wasn't able to play it.
That is only partially true. He stayed in Europe to play some
exhibitions that were paying him more than he could've made in the PGA.
|
| | |
Date: 22 Aug 2006 15:55:12
From: Chris Bellomy
Subject: Re: You didn't know this about Hogan
|
annika1980 <annika1980@aol.com > wrote:
:
: multi wrote:
: > My mystical powers tell me that your answer was, "The dates
: > conflicted." It's true, the PGA did conflict with the British Open
: > that year. But that's not why Hogan didn't enter the PGA.
: >
: > He didn't enter the PGA because he wasn't able to play it.
:
: That is only partially true. He stayed in Europe to play some
: exhibitions that were paying him more than he could've made in the PGA.
I'm pretty sure that's not true -- he came straight home to a ticker
tape parade in Manhattan.
One other thing multi didn't mention is that travel to the UK in
1953 was still accomplished by boat rather than plane. So one had
to budget days to get there rather than hours.
--
Chris Bellomy
C-List Charter Member
http://clist.org/
|
| | | |
Date: 22 Aug 2006 10:17:14
From: The World Wide Wade
Subject: Re: You didn't know this about Hogan
|
In article <3T3dhu75I2pnN34@redshark.goodshow.net >,
Chris Bellomy <puevf@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid > wrote:
> annika1980 <annika1980@aol.com> wrote:
> :
> : multi wrote:
> : > My mystical powers tell me that your answer was, "The dates
> : > conflicted." It's true, the PGA did conflict with the British Open
> : > that year. But that's not why Hogan didn't enter the PGA.
> : >
> : > He didn't enter the PGA because he wasn't able to play it.
> :
> : That is only partially true. He stayed in Europe to play some
> : exhibitions that were paying him more than he could've made in the PGA.
>
> I'm pretty sure that's not true -- he came straight home to a ticker
> tape parade in Manhattan.
No, he definitely played some exhibition matches, one in France I
believe.
> One other thing multi didn't mention is that travel to the UK in
> 1953 was still accomplished by boat rather than plane. So one had
> to budget days to get there rather than hours.
|
| |
Date: 23 Aug 2006 17:16:43
From: annika1980
Subject: Re: You didn't know this about Hogan
|
Steven Paul wrote:
> In article <cIednVcuPdrRXXbZnZ2dnUVZ_v-dnZ2d@comcast.com>, sfb
> <sfb@spam.net> wrote:
>
> > After Sam Snead won his first and the only Open he ever entered in 1946, he
> > complained that the purse didn't cover his expenses.
>
>
> After he won he described the experience as like "camping out."
Hogan had a similar comment at Carnoustie, offering to send a lawn
mower over from Texas to cut down some of that hay. As it turned out,
he didn't get to experience that hay very often that week.
|
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Date: 25 Aug 2006 13:33:43
From: Steven Paul
Subject: Re: You didn't know this about Hogan
|
In article <1156378603.314779.275230@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com >,
annika1980 <annika1980@aol.com > wrote:
> Hogan had a similar comment at Carnoustie, offering to send a lawn
> mower over from Texas to cut down some of that hay.
That's pretty funny. Was that before or after the tournament?
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|
