Promoting golf discussion.
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golf-forum.net Promoting golf discussion. |
hosel of the same club? Maybe carry a putter in case I ever get on a green. Can I use this "miracle system" with golf cubes as well as balls? I like the cubes because they are easier to tee up. Just wondering! :-) Lee O. |
news:b06bf9d3a0b6b1bf7ddd8d36a34c0091@itys.net... > I take the time to publish a golf tip that works. Sadly, I think some of you have dismissed it too readily. > GH, is that you? |
<anon@anon.itys.net > wrote: >I take the time to publish a golf tip that works. Sadly, I think some of you have dismissed it too readily. > >As a golf instructor, there are no secrets. The closest you can get to the "secret" is understanding lag. The more lag you can produce, the better your chances in the long run of improving. Achieving lag is very elusive. I teach my students to try and hit the ball with the back of the hosel. First and foremost, a good turn is needed with back to the target. Then, I get them to try and hit the inside corner of the ball with the back of the hosel with the toe of the clubface facing 180 degrees away from the line of flight. > >The ball will be hit square, much to the amazement of most of my students. Sometimes, it takes them about 25 balls, because they dont trust this motion due to years of trying to "hit" the ball with the "sweet spot" of the clubface. The "sweet spot" is not the axis of the swing. With my approach, the release becomes automatic, as does the squaring of the clubface. And distance generally one club longer due to the increased velocity of the release. okay ........ this whole thing may be a an attempt at humor ......... or a scheme to sucker in the more gullible of us ........ but I am having a heck of a time understanding what you are talking about here. firstly - define lag. secondly - if I am understanding what you are recommending, on the downswing you want me to try and turn the clubhead approximately 90 degrees to the right prior to contacting the ball - this is the only way I can picture the toe being 180 degrees off the flight path. mark At the end of dirt roads, you soon learn that bad words end up tasting like soap. |
team |
>firstly - define lag. Two definitions: One is maintaining the ~90-degree angle of the club to your wrist until your hands almost reach the ball. The other is hitting the ball with the hands slightly past it, and the club still lagging behind them. Because the club is not leading your hands and not in line with them and your wrists, it is lagging. Don't laugh. Many golfers allow the clubhead to fly ahead of their hands, scooping the ball, increasing loft to try to increase rise angle, and getting inaccurate, powerless, short shots out of it. >secondly - if I am understanding what you are recommending, on the >downswing you want me to try and turn the clubhead approximately 90 >degrees to the right prior to contacting the ball - this is the only >way I can picture the toe being 180 degrees off the flight path. The direction from the ball to the target is 0 degrees, so the direction from the target to the ball is 180 degrees. If you make a mock downswing and bring the hosel to the ball without any rotation of the clubhead, the toe will point in the 180 degree direction. It gets into this alignment during the first quadrant of the backswing, when you sweep the club open, by the way. It gets out of it and squares with the ball only during the release phase of the swing. --Blair "Usenet needs a protactor." |
>>firstly - define lag. > >Two definitions: One is maintaining the ~90-degree angle >of the club to your wrist until your hands almost reach >the ball. > >The other is hitting the ball with the hands slightly past >it, and the club still lagging behind them. Lag is dynamic. You defined two static positions. When people say advice from RSG is useless this is exactly what they are talking about. David Laville, G.S.E.M. The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor |
>David Laville, G.S.E.M. >The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor Is this the pot > When people say >advice from RSG is useless this is exactly what they are talking >about. calling the kettle black? |
"Anonymous" <anon@anon.itys.net > wrote in message news:b06bf9d3a0b6b1bf7ddd8d36a34c0091@itys.net... > I take the time to publish a golf tip that works. Sadly, I think some of you have dismissed it too readily. > > As a golf instructor, there are no secrets. The closest you can get to the "secret" is understanding lag. The more lag you can produce, the better your chances in the long run of improving. Achieving lag is very elusive. I teach my students to try and hit the ball with the back of the hosel. First and foremost, a good turn is needed with back to the target. Then, I get them to try and hit the inside corner of the ball with the back of the hosel with the toe of the clubface facing 180 degrees away from the line of flight. > > The ball will be hit square, much to the amazement of most of my students. Sometimes, it takes them about 25 balls, because they dont trust this motion due to years of trying to "hit" the ball with the "sweet spot" of the clubface. The "sweet spot" is not the axis of the swing. With my approach, the release becomes automatic, as does the squaring of the clubface. And distance generally one club longer due to the increased velocity of the release. > > Most students I teach throw the club away in the downswing and a good hit is simply luck. By employing the method I have outlined, club throwaway is diminshed. > > The hit with the hosel concept works good as a drill. Do pump drills with the thought of hitting the ball with the back of the hosel. On the fifth "pump", take a full swing. After enough practice with this, you will find much more solid and accurate contact, and if you have an over the top move, it should be corrected. > > The one negative to this approach is that your arms will ache quite a bit in the beginning. You will not be used to swinging from the inside and producing such lag, and you will be using muscle groups that have not been used before. After a few weeks, this aching should lessen. > > I want to emphasize, that you cannot hit the sweet spot consistently through a conscious manipulation of the hands. The golf swing is too quick and anyone that says otherwise is selling you false hope. You will have your moments, but an AJ Bonar type swing will leave you disappointed in the long run. My apporach will get you to the sweet spot more often without any conscious manipulation. > > Hope this helps. Until someone has tried the approach I have outlined, I think it unfair to show such negativism. New golfers, if they understood how to produce lag more early on, would progress a whole lot sooner and save a lot of dollars in their search for the perfect instructor or set of clubs. > > I am a teaching pro and have played on some of the Florida mini-tours a number of years back. Have won a few in my day and still play tournament golf occasionally. Yesterday shot a 68 at 6700 yards out. I am 61 years old. I am not saying this to brag, but to reinforce that the hosel concept works, as it is my only swing thought. Every student I teach this hosel drill to has expressed satisfaction with the results. But you must have an open mind, something a few of you seem to lack. > > |
Anonymous wrote: > I take the time to publish a golf tip that works. Sadly, I think some of you have dismissed it too readily. > > As a golf instructor, there are no secrets. The closest you can get to the "secret" is understanding lag. The more lag you can produce, the better your chances in the long run of improving. Achieving lag is very elusive. I teach my students to try and hit the ball with the back of the hosel. First and foremost, a good turn is needed with back to the target. Then, I get them to try and hit the inside corner of the ball with the back of the hosel with the toe of the clubface facing 180 degrees away from the line of flight. > > The ball will be hit square, much to the amazement of most of my students. Sometimes, it takes them about 25 balls, because they dont trust this motion due to years of trying to "hit" the ball with the "sweet spot" of the clubface. The "sweet spot" is not the axis of the swing. With my approach, the release becomes automatic, as does the squaring of the clubface. And distance generally one club longer due to the increased velocity of the release. > > Most students I teach throw the club away in the downswing and a good hit is simply luck. By employing the method I have outlined, club throwaway is diminshed. > > The hit with the hosel concept works good as a drill. Do pump drills with the thought of hitting the ball with the back of the hosel. On the fifth "pump", take a full swing. After enough practice with this, you will find much more solid and accurate contact, and if you have an over the top move, it should be corrected. > > The one negative to this approach is that your arms will ache quite a bit in the beginning. You will not be used to swinging from the inside and producing such lag, and you will be using muscle groups that have not been used before. After a few weeks, this aching should lessen. > > I want to emphasize, that you cannot hit the sweet spot consistently through a conscious manipulation of the hands. The golf swing is too quick and anyone that says otherwise is selling you false hope. You will have your moments, but an AJ Bonar type swing will leave you disappointed in the long run. My apporach will get you to the sweet spot more often without any conscious manipulation. > > Hope this helps. Until someone has tried the approach I have outlined, I think it unfair to show such negativism. New golfers, if they understood how to produce lag more early on, would progress a whole lot sooner and save a lot of dollars in their search for the perfect instructor or set of clubs. > > I am a teaching pro and have played on some of the Florida mini-tours a number of years back. Have won a few in my day and still play tournament golf occasionally. Yesterday shot a 68 at 6700 yards out. I am 61 years old. I am not saying this to brag, but to reinforce that the hosel concept works, as it is my only swing thought. Every student I teach this hosel drill to has expressed satisfaction with the results. But you must have an open mind, something a few of you seem to lack. " Some of us seem to lack" an an open mind? How long have you been here to reach yhat conclusion? My gut reaction is that you are a pompus ass who hides behind being anon. |
the ball exercise, and the flip that promotes an additional surge of power. I think your suggestion is a wonderful one, and I subscribe to it100%, thanks for posting it. For another, I think Nancy Lopez is a firm supporter of the maneuver, even tho I haven't heard her say so, but just from observation, that's the conclusion I draw. v =83e ---- >I am a teaching pro and have played on >some of the Florida mini-tours a number >of years back. >Have won a few in my day and still play >tournament golf occasionally. >Yesterday shot a 68 at 6700 yards out. >I am 61 years old. >I am not saying this to brag, >but to reinforce that the hosel concept >works, >as it is my only swing thought. >Every student I teach this hosel drill to >has expressed satisfaction with the >results. >But you must have an open mind, >something a few of you seem to lack. |
Anonymous <anon@anon.itys.net > wrote: > I teach my students to try and hit the ball with the back of the hosel. > First and foremost, a good turn is needed with back to the target. Then, I > get them to try and hit the inside corner of the ball with the back of the > hosel with the toe of the clubface facing 180 degrees away from the line of > flight. I don't understand what you mean by "back of the hosel", "inside corner of the ball", and "toe of the clubface facing 180 degrees away from the line". Are you trying to say, practice shanking the ball with the clubface open 90 degrees? I do agree about the lag, one thing helps me execute it is the swing thought of making sure my right elbow brushes my hip on the downswing, (dunno why, it has nothing to do with my wrists . . .) |
>In article <b06bf9d3a0b6b1bf7ddd8d36a34c0091@itys.net>, > Anonymous <anon@anon.itys.net> wrote: > >> I teach my students to try and hit the ball with the back of the hosel. >> First and foremost, a good turn is needed with back to the target. Then, I >> get them to try and hit the inside corner of the ball with the back of the >> hosel with the toe of the clubface facing 180 degrees away from the line of >> flight. > > >I don't understand what you mean by "back of the hosel", "inside corner of >the ball", and "toe of the clubface facing 180 degrees away from the line". The heel, the quadrant of the ball pointing at your right toe, and the direction from the flag through the ball to the parking lot. He's being somewhat redundant, and he's leaving out the reason for the second exercise (maybe), which may make it seem like he's doing the same thing twice in different ways. I think the first exercise is just to get the students to find the ball with the clubhead without casting. The second would refine their aim without casting. The clubhead does the same thing in both, but in the second, because of the slight shift of the aim to a plane cutting slightly nearer to you, the sweet spot of the club will hit the center of the ball (I expect the first exercise actually causes a lot of shanks and the second results in very few). >Are you trying to say, practice shanking the ball with the clubface open 90 >degrees? Sounds like it. But he's also telling them to release the club at the proper release angle. The idea here is to get them to quiet their hands completely until release, by giving the clubhead a goal to achieve until that point. --Blair "There's money to be made in this." |
Blair P. Houghton <b@p.h > wrote: > > >Are you trying to say, practice shanking the ball with the clubface open 90 > >degrees? > > Sounds like it. But he's also telling them to release > the club at the proper release angle. The idea here is > to get them to quiet their hands completely until release, > by giving the clubhead a goal to achieve until that point. That works for me. I'd concurr with any advice to keep the hands out of the swing at any point. But I'm leary at telling someone to shank on purpose. That needlessly points someone in the direction of consciously aiming your downswing with your arms which I'm not sure is a great idea. Wouldn't it be better to simply say, "hold your left wrist angle as long as you can on the way down"? |
in hearing any other tips you may have to share. |
anon@anon.itys.net says... :I take the time to publish a golf tip that works. Sadly, I think some of you have dismissed it too readily. : :As a golf instructor, there are no secrets. The closest you can get to the "secret" is understanding lag. The more lag you can produce, the better your chances in the long run of improving. Achieving lag is very elusive. I teach my students to try and hit the ball with the back of the hosel. First and foremost, a good turn is needed with back to the target. Then, I get them to try and hit the inside corner of the ball with the back of the hosel with the toe of the clubface facing 180 degrees away from the line of flight. : :The ball will be hit square, much to the amazement of most of my students. Sometimes, it takes them about 25 balls, because they dont trust this motion due to years of trying to "hit" the ball with the "sweet spot" of the clubface. The "sweet spot" is not the axis of the swing. With my approach, the release becomes automatic, as does the squaring of the clubface. And distance generally one club longer due to the increased velocity of the release. : :Most students I teach throw the club away in the downswing and a good hit is simply luck. By employing the method I have outlined, club throwaway is diminshed. : :The hit with the hosel concept works good as a drill. Do pump drills with the thought of hitting the ball with the back of the hosel. On the fifth "pump", take a full swing. After enough practice with this, you will find much more solid and accurate contact, and if you have an over the top move, it should be corrected. : :The one negative to this approach is that your arms will ache quite a bit in the beginning. You will not be used to swinging from the inside and producing such lag, and you will be using muscle groups that have not been used before. After a few weeks, this aching should lessen. : :I want to emphasize, that you cannot hit the sweet spot consistently through a conscious manipulation of the hands. The golf swing is too quick and anyone that says otherwise is selling you false hope. You will have your moments, but an AJ Bonar type swing will leave you disappointed in the long run. My apporach will get you to the sweet spot more often without any conscious manipulation. : :Hope this helps. Until someone has tried the approach I have outlined, I think it unfair to show such negativism. New golfers, if they understood how to produce lag more early on, would progress a whole lot sooner and save a lot of dollars in their search for the perfect instructor or set of clubs. : :I am a teaching pro and have played on some of the Florida mini-tours a number of years back. Have won a few in my day and still play tournament golf occasionally. Yesterday shot a 68 at 6700 yards out. I am 61 years old. I am not saying this to brag, but to reinforce that the hosel concept works, as it is my only swing thought. Every student I teach this hosel drill to has expressed satisfaction with the results. But you must have an open mind, something a few of you seem to lack. : : : The local pro at a driving range that I frequent stresses this late release. I haven't taken a lesson from him but I see him time and again demonstrating *the position*. He stands as if he is entering the hitting zone, but the shaft of the club is still pointing in the air, wrists still fully cocked, clubface wide open. It's obvious that the ability to delay the release until late in the downswing is what separates expert ball strikers from beginners. Most beginners release all their power closer to the top than the bottom of the downswing - casting the club up there at the top. Sergio is one of the best there is at this delayed release - if you look at some stop action pictures of his swing you are amazed that he is able to deliver a square clubface to the ball, but he does. You have to admit though, you are starting at the end with this, no? No mention of grip, stance or posture, backswing, transition - just jump right to the part of the swing where all the power is released and start with that? I don't think it's a good place to start with your first offering of a golf tip. What about the guy who is wa-a-y out of position at the top of his backswing? *Actually hitting* the ball with the hosel is almost a certainty, he needs no suggestion to actually *try* to do so. Leaving that aside though, and dealing with your suggestion. Don't you think that although the uncocking of the wrists can be trusted to happen automatically by centrifigal force, that maybe another ingredient is more of a conscious movement? I'm referring to the rolling of the left arm throughout the downswing that moves the clubface from fully open at the top of the backswing to fully closed at the end of the follow through? I'll bet most of the top players would say that was a *conscious* movement, as opposed to something they don't think about at all. I think it's a conscious movement because most of the players seem to abbreviate it in their wedge play (stopping at the point where the clubface is square to the line). With the driver and longer range clubs they release it fully ie turn the clubface so that the left palm faces the sky on the follow through. This movement of the left arm on the downswing is something that is emphasized by good ball strikers and I view it as a source of power for them. Just about every pro has his left palm facing the ground at the top of the backswing and facing the sky at the end of his follow through. You don't see many higher handicap amateurs do this though (especially the part after impact). Beginners ignore it almost completely (even the backswing pronation phase). I think "Five Lessons" would have been a better book had it emphasized this movement of the left arm instead of confusing the whole issue by promoting the *raised left wrist* concept. That was wrong-headed in my opinion. Easy for me to say though - I (and many others) have learned a *huge* amount of sound golf mechanics from the book. Ledbetter and McLean and even Harmon would still be back in the 1930's without it in my opinion. But I digress. I'm still 4 months away from even attempting your training tip, but I think if I tried to hit the ball with the hosel of the club I would succeed - just by not allowing my left arm to roll (supinate) throughout the downswing as it *has to do* to deliver a square clubface to the ball. So, I don't know how to practise your tip. jmkanes |
<anon@anon.itys.net > wrote: > . . . Then, I get them to try and hit the inside corner of the ball . . . I'm going to ignore the tip because I'm already hitting the ball with the back of the hosel and I need to figure out how to stop. However, what I'm still trying to understand from this advice is: Just where the hell is the inside corner of a spherical object??? -- OBR |
"OBRiley" <nospam@invalid.net > wrote in message news:3fe346ce.1598868@news.eoni.com... > On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 13:59:45 -0800 (PST), Anonymous > <anon@anon.itys.net> wrote: > > > . . . Then, I get them to try and hit the inside corner of the ball . . . > > I'm going to ignore the tip because I'm already hitting the ball with > the back of the hosel and I need to figure out how to stop. > However, what I'm still trying to understand from this advice is: > Just where the hell is the inside corner of a spherical object??? > > -- OBR > Ooh, Ooh, I know, I know! It's on the other side from the outside corner. right? Do I win a prize for figuring this out? -- DynamicFred "Quarrel not at all. No man resolved to make the most of himself can spare time for personal contention." Abraham Lincoln |
nospam@invalid.net (OBRiley) >I'm going to ignore the tip because I'm already >hitting the ball with the back of the hosel and I >need to figure out how to stop. However, what >I'm still trying to understand from this advice is: >Just where the hell is the inside corner of a >spherical object??? >-- OBR ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ Too funny. LMAO . I guess this tipster just has a problem putting its thoughts into understandable words. :-) Happy Golfing - - Make more long putts It drives your opponents crazy Larry |
news:b06bf9d3a0b6b1bf7ddd8d36a34c0091@itys.net: > New golfers, if > they understood how to produce lag more early on, would progress a > whole lot sooner and save a lot of dollars in their search for the > perfect instructor or set of clubs. If a slicer learns to lag more he'll just hit more extreme and uncontrollable slices. In fact they'll be blocked slices. I know, because that is what I did. To cure a slice you have to learn to hook the ball, and that requires hand action of the sort you and most modern golf pros (who always struggle with a hook) say is bad. In fact, if you slice then more hand action is recommended. If you hook then try less. If you do both, then practice a straight left wrist to straighten your aim. Once you can hook the ball, then hit harder with more lag and it'll straighten out the hook. But if you start with straight or slicing ball flight, increased lag will leave the clubface open longer with greater velocity at impact. And that's a perfect definition of a block that produces a pushed slice. And a pushed slice is OB on many, many holes. Cheers, Loren -- Loren Miller <mailto:lonnotthissdale notthis nine-ty-six notthis at cox dot net > Digital forums are a gift to the slow witted |
Lonsdale <lonsdaNOSPAMle96@coNOSPAMx.net > wrote: > If I recall correctly, Anonymous <anon@anon.itys.net> wrote in > news:b06bf9d3a0b6b1bf7ddd8d36a34c0091@itys.net: > > > New golfers, if > > they understood how to produce lag more early on, would progress a > > whole lot sooner and save a lot of dollars in their search for the > > perfect instructor or set of clubs. > > If a slicer learns to lag more he'll just hit more extreme and > uncontrollable slices. In fact they'll be blocked slices. I know, because > that is what I did. To cure a slice you have to learn to hook the ball, and > that requires hand action of the sort you and most modern golf pros (who > always struggle with a hook) say is bad. At this point the obvious needs to be re-stated, that we're all different and we progress from "unconsiously incompetent" to "absolutely fabulous" <grin > in different ways in different sequences. The original poster made a good tip. But he assumes the new golfer has an acceptable set-up, grip and takeaway because only then would the advice actually work. Problem for me is that any golfer who has an acceptable set-up, grip and takeaway isn't by definition a "new golfer". |
slice occur - in the first place. v =83e =3D=3D=3D=3D >To cure a slice you have to learn to hook >the ball, |
>There must be another way. There really is no reason to have an hook, or >slice occur - in the first place. > Do you really play golf? No reason is the best reason. bill-o |
anon@anon.itys.net (Anonymous) >I get them to try and hit the inside corner of the >ball with the back of the hosel with the toe of >the clubface facing 180 degrees away from the >line of flight. ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ Holy crap, is that you Abe? Have you given up on the " straight left thumb drill " in favor of the " hit the hosel drill ? " Let us know how things are going in Tampa. The daughter still staying with her golf? You might want to drop " Eric " the hammer a direct email since he is not currently monitoring RSG. He would be very interested in your new drill. Happy Drilling - - Make more long putts It drives your opponents crazy Larry |
> Group: rec.sport.golf Date: Thu, Dec 18, 2003, 1:59pm (CST-2) From: > anon@anon.itys.net (Anonymous) > > >>I get them to try and hit the inside corner of the >>ball with the back of the hosel with the toe of >>the clubface facing 180 degrees away from the >>line of flight. > > ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ > > Holy crap, is that you Abe? Have you given up on the " straight left > thumb drill " in favor of the " hit the hosel drill ? " > I think it sounds more like "LLLarry". The arrogance, the jumping from one "secret" or "essence" to another, the absolute cluelessness about why folks might object to his attitude. Rob |
Where do you teach? And who are you? Anonymous wrote: > I take the time to publish a golf tip that works. Sadly, I think some of you have dismissed it too readily. > > As a golf instructor, there are no secrets. The closest you can get to the "secret" is understanding lag. The more lag you can produce, the better your chances in the long run of improving. Achieving lag is very elusive. I teach my students to try and hit the ball with the back of the hosel. Shank? > First and foremost, a good turn is needed with back to the target. Then, I get them to try and hit the inside corner of the ball with the back of the hosel with the toe of the clubface facing 180 degrees away from the line of flight. Shank? > > > The ball will be hit square, much to the amazement of most of my students. Sometimes, it takes them about 25 balls, because they dont trust this motion due to years of trying to "hit" the ball with the "sweet spot" of the clubface. The "sweet spot" is not the axis of the swing. With my approach, the release becomes automatic, as does the squaring of the clubface. And distance generally one club longer due to the increased velocity of the release. > > Most students I teach throw the club away in the downswing and a good hit is simply luck. By employing the method I have outlined, club throwaway is diminshed. > > The hit with the hosel concept works good as a drill. Do pump drills with the thought of hitting the ball with the back of the hosel. On the fifth "pump", take a full swing. After enough practice with this, you will find much more solid and accurate contact, and if you have an over the top move, it should be corrected. > > The one negative to this approach is that your arms will ache quite a bit in the beginning. You will not be used to swinging from the inside and producing such lag, and you will be using muscle groups that have not been used before. After a few weeks, this aching should lessen. > > I want to emphasize, that you cannot hit the sweet spot consistently through a conscious manipulation of the hands. The golf swing is too quick and anyone that says otherwise is selling you false hope. You will have your moments, but an AJ Bonar type swing will leave you disappointed in the long run. My apporach will get you to the sweet spot more often without any conscious manipulation. > > Hope this helps. Until someone has tried the approach I have outlined, I think it unfair to show such negativism. New golfers, if they understood how to produce lag more early on, would progress a whole lot sooner and save a lot of dollars in their search for the perfect instructor or set of clubs. > > I am a teaching pro Where? > and have played on some of the Florida mini-tours a number of years back. Have won a few in my day and still play tournament golf occasionally. Yesterday shot a 68 at 6700 yards out. I am 61 years old. I am not saying this to brag, but to reinforce that the hosel concept works, as it is my only swing thought. Every student I teach this hosel drill to has expressed satisfaction with the results. But you must have an open mind, something a few of you seem to lack. |