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Main
Date: 08 Sep 2006 15:00:13
From: Larry Bud
Subject: What's too far for you?
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I normally play my home course from the 2nd longest tees, a not long
6427, but it is rated at 72.3/135. I play to a 5 index. Not too
shabby.
Today I joined up with a guy that wanted to play the tips, so I figured
what the hell. A cool 7109, 74.3/140. Frankly, that rating looks a
little low to me.
Well, I've decided that's too long for me. While I didn't hit the ball
all that well, I hit a grand total of 4 greens (I average 9). There
were 4 par fours that in the wind today, I just couldn't reach. I'm
thinking without the wind and with good drives, I probably could reach
two of those. One of the par 5's is 632 uphill, It must have played to
at least 700. Driver, 4 wood, 4 wood put me right in front! There's a
472, 435, 416 (uphill, plays to about 450), 456, and 449 yard par 4s on
the card.I was thanking God for the break when we reached the 205 yard
par 3!
I carded an 86, my 3rd highest score all year. The amazing part is
that is only a 9.4 differential!
The guy I played with could absolutely kill the ball. My good 270 yard
drives were 50 yards behind him. I'm guessing he probably shot about
81 or 82. Not the greatest shortgame or putter in the world.
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Date: 09 Sep 2006 05:13:21
From: S MCFARLANE
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
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"Larry Bud" <larrybud2002@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1157752813.458491.216940@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>I normally play my home course from the 2nd longest tees, a not long
> 6427, but it is rated at 72.3/135. I play to a 5 index. Not too
> shabby.
>
> Today I joined up with a guy that wanted to play the tips, so I figured
> what the hell. A cool 7109, 74.3/140. Frankly, that rating looks a
> little low to me.
>
> Well, I've decided that's too long for me. While I didn't hit the ball
> all that well, I hit a grand total of 4 greens (I average 9). There
> were 4 par fours that in the wind today, I just couldn't reach. I'm
> thinking without the wind and with good drives, I probably could reach
> two of those. One of the par 5's is 632 uphill, It must have played to
> at least 700. Driver, 4 wood, 4 wood put me right in front! There's a
> 472, 435, 416 (uphill, plays to about 450), 456, and 449 yard par 4s on
> the card.I was thanking God for the break when we reached the 205 yard
> par 3!
>
> I carded an 86, my 3rd highest score all year. The amazing part is
> that is only a 9.4 differential!
>
I never consider yardage when picking tees; course & slope ratings seem to
be better criteria for me. I try to avoid either course ratings above 74 or
slope ratings above about 136 or so. At my ~ 13 index, I tend to pay more
attention to the slope rating. I've found that I never have difficulties
with distance when I stick to that system.
A wide open 7100 around here isn't nearly as tough for me as another course
ringing in at 6680 from the blues. The first one is 74.1/128; the second is
73.6/134. I'd score lower nine times out of ten on the 7100 with the lower
slope. I'd play those tees, but I'd never dream of playing from the gold
(also about 7100) on the course with the higher slope (75.5 / 139 from the
back!) I'm guessing that if I ever get better at this crazy game, the
course rating will eventually become the better indicator for me.
Scott
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Date: 10 Sep 2006 01:49:02
From: JJK
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
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"S MCFARLANEwrote:
> I never consider yardage when picking tees; course & slope ratings seem to
> be better criteria for me. I try to avoid either course ratings above 74
or
> slope ratings above about 136 or so. At my ~ 13 index, I tend to pay more
> attention to the slope rating. I've found that I never have difficulties
> with distance when I stick to that system.
<snip >
If you're accurate off the tee, slope ratings can indeed be a good indicator
of the degree of a course's difficulty (relative to your game). However, a
local muni is rated at only 123 from the tips (6,800 yards) but if you fade
the ball a bit too much there, you'll be in the middle of a lot of trees and
often dead.
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Date: 10 Sep 2006 14:45:45
From: S McFarlane
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
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"JJK" <surpher@verizon.net > wrote in message
news:iaKMg.2547$xC3.163@trnddc06...
> "S MCFARLANEwrote:
>> I never consider yardage when picking tees; course & slope ratings seem
>> to
>> be better criteria for me. I try to avoid either course ratings above 74
> or
>> slope ratings above about 136 or so. At my ~ 13 index, I tend to pay
>> more
>> attention to the slope rating. I've found that I never have difficulties
>> with distance when I stick to that system.
> <snip>
>
>
> If you're accurate off the tee, slope ratings can indeed be a good
> indicator
> of the degree of a course's difficulty (relative to your game). However, a
> local muni is rated at only 123 from the tips (6,800 yards) but if you
> fade
> the ball a bit too much there, you'll be in the middle of a lot of trees
> and
> often dead.
Sounds like the muni you are talking about isn't particularly tight, but
will kill someone who moves the ball right too much. I suspect for any
given golfer there's a course out there almost designed to take the air out
of their tires. To me, slope vs. accuracy works the other way around. The
less accurate I am in general, the more a high slope is a danger sign. I
definitely have accuracy problems, but not so much distance problems. From
what I can tell, longer yardage doesn't move slope ratings up nearly as much
as having a lot more tight shots does. Makes sense to me. Most bogey
golfers don't really have distance issues as their primary problem (though
many of them think they do). Consistency aka accuracy issues are their
biggest problem. So those tight courses with lots of ways to get into
trouble tend to have high slope ratings, even when the yardages are normal
and the course ratings aren't really so high.
I've noticed that my differential often goes up when I move from the blue
tees to the white tees on a given course. If this happens, I believe a
golfer should definitely not be using yardage to pick tees.
Scott
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Date: 10 Sep 2006 08:17:17
From: Bert Robbins
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
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JJK wrote:
> "S MCFARLANEwrote:
>> I never consider yardage when picking tees; course & slope ratings seem to
>> be better criteria for me. I try to avoid either course ratings above 74
> or
>> slope ratings above about 136 or so. At my ~ 13 index, I tend to pay more
>> attention to the slope rating. I've found that I never have difficulties
>> with distance when I stick to that system.
> <snip>
>
>
> If you're accurate off the tee, slope ratings can indeed be a good indicator
> of the degree of a course's difficulty (relative to your game). However, a
> local muni is rated at only 123 from the tips (6,800 yards) but if you fade
> the ball a bit too much there, you'll be in the middle of a lot of trees and
> often dead.
Been there, done that, punched out of the trees many times at that
course. If you draw the ball you this the course to play.
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Date: 08 Sep 2006 22:14:13
From:
Subject: Re: Wie
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Good luck to Wie, I like to see everyone become a success.
But is her putting coach on an extended vacation?;--)
Seriously Michelle, you need to take your putting attempts - a little
more seriously.
>m h o
> v =83e
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Date: 09 Sep 2006 02:53:47
From: DaveB
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
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On 8 Sep 2006 15:00:13 -0700, "Larry Bud" <larrybud2002@yahoo.com >
wrote:
>I normally play my home course from the 2nd longest tees, a not long
>6427, but it is rated at 72.3/135. I play to a 5 index. Not too
>shabby.
>
>Today I joined up with a guy that wanted to play the tips, so I figured
>what the hell. A cool 7109, 74.3/140. Frankly, that rating looks a
>little low to me.
>
>Well, I've decided that's too long for me. While I didn't hit the ball
>all that well, I hit a grand total of 4 greens (I average 9). There
>were 4 par fours that in the wind today, I just couldn't reach. I'm
>thinking without the wind and with good drives, I probably could reach
>two of those. One of the par 5's is 632 uphill, It must have played to
>at least 700. Driver, 4 wood, 4 wood put me right in front! There's a
>472, 435, 416 (uphill, plays to about 450), 456, and 449 yard par 4s on
>the card.I was thanking God for the break when we reached the 205 yard
>par 3!
>
>I carded an 86, my 3rd highest score all year. The amazing part is
>that is only a 9.4 differential!
>
>The guy I played with could absolutely kill the ball. My good 270 yard
>drives were 50 yards behind him. I'm guessing he probably shot about
>81 or 82. Not the greatest shortgame or putter in the world.
>
I played a course about six months from the tips and said I would
never play the course again (kicked my ass).
Well, today I played it again from the tips and thought I would play
smart, manage the course, think my way around it.
Guess what? it kicked my ass big time. I will never play there again,
at least till my ass heals.
When I got home I felt like I had played about 3 rounds instead of
one.
Best
Daveb
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Date: 25 Sep 2006 17:47:18
From: Kevin D. Timm
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
|
DaveB wrote:
>
> I played a course about six months from the tips and said I would
> never play the course again (kicked my ass).
>
> Well, today I played it again from the tips and thought I would play
> smart, manage the course, think my way around it.
>
> Guess what? it kicked my ass big time. I will never play there again,
> at least till my ass heals.
>
> When I got home I felt like I had played about 3 rounds instead of
> one.
>
> Best
> Daveb
But, what were the course specifics (rating/slope) and your index?
Also, an example of the card and the shots/clubs played.
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Date: 26 Sep 2006 01:18:08
From: DaveB
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
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On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 17:47:18 -0500, "Kevin D. Timm"
<kevindtimm@comcast.net > wrote:
>
>
>DaveB wrote:
>
>>
>> I played a course about six months from the tips and said I would
>> never play the course again (kicked my ass).
>>
>> Well, today I played it again from the tips and thought I would play
>> smart, manage the course, think my way around it.
>>
>> Guess what? it kicked my ass big time. I will never play there again,
>> at least till my ass heals.
>>
>> When I got home I felt like I had played about 3 rounds instead of
>> one.
>>
>> Best
>> Daveb
>
>But, what were the course specifics (rating/slope) and your index?
>Also, an example of the card and the shots/clubs played.
I dont mind playing long courses, however when they have hazards
across the fairways that require a 200 + yard carry to clear seems
unfair.
They try and maintain the natural habitat of some obscure species but
it can cause a lot of other problems like slow play etc.
Tight fairways are fine, at least if you have a straight mis-hit you
can recover.
Some of the socal courses if you are off the fairway and can see your
ball you still cant play it, not even supposed to step in the area to
get it.
They sometimes have signs that warn of rattlesnakes, screw the snakes
I want my ball back.
Best
Daveb
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Date: 25 Sep 2006 23:38:09
From: DaveB
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
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On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 17:47:18 -0500, "Kevin D. Timm"
<kevindtimm@comcast.net > wrote:
>
>
>DaveB wrote:
>
>>
>> I played a course about six months from the tips and said I would
>> never play the course again (kicked my ass).
>>
>> Well, today I played it again from the tips and thought I would play
>> smart, manage the course, think my way around it.
>>
>> Guess what? it kicked my ass big time. I will never play there again,
>> at least till my ass heals.
>>
>> When I got home I felt like I had played about 3 rounds instead of
>> one.
>>
>> Best
>> Daveb
>
>But, what were the course specifics (rating/slope) and your index?
>Also, an example of the card and the shots/clubs played.
Empire Lakes
6933/133
Index 8.3
card
http://www.empirelakes.com/course.asp
Daveb
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Date: 25 Sep 2006 20:52:10
From: Kevin D. Timm
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
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DaveB wrote:
>
> On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 17:47:18 -0500, "Kevin D. Timm"
> <kevindtimm@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >DaveB wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> I played a course about six months from the tips and said I would
> >> never play the course again (kicked my ass).
> >>
> >> Well, today I played it again from the tips and thought I would play
> >> smart, manage the course, think my way around it.
> >>
> >> Guess what? it kicked my ass big time. I will never play there again,
> >> at least till my ass heals.
> >>
> >> When I got home I felt like I had played about 3 rounds instead of
> >> one.
> >>
> >> Best
> >> Daveb
> >
> >But, what were the course specifics (rating/slope) and your index?
> >Also, an example of the card and the shots/clubs played.
>
> Empire Lakes
> 6933/133
> Index 8.3
>
> card
>
> http://www.empirelakes.com/course.asp
> Daveb
The card doesn't make the course look too bad, though 11/12/17 look like
they'd be quite a test for anyone. What made it so hard to manage?
KT
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Date: 26 Sep 2006 01:59:39
From: DaveB
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
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On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 20:52:10 -0500, "Kevin D. Timm"
<kevindtimm@comcast.net > wrote:
>
>
>DaveB wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 17:47:18 -0500, "Kevin D. Timm"
>> <kevindtimm@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >DaveB wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> I played a course about six months from the tips and said I would
>> >> never play the course again (kicked my ass).
>> >>
>> >> Well, today I played it again from the tips and thought I would play
>> >> smart, manage the course, think my way around it.
>> >>
>> >> Guess what? it kicked my ass big time. I will never play there again,
>> >> at least till my ass heals.
>> >>
>> >> When I got home I felt like I had played about 3 rounds instead of
>> >> one.
>> >>
>> >> Best
>> >> Daveb
>> >
>> >But, what were the course specifics (rating/slope) and your index?
>> >Also, an example of the card and the shots/clubs played.
>>
>> Empire Lakes
>> 6933/133
>> Index 8.3
>>
>> card
>>
>> http://www.empirelakes.com/course.asp
>> Daveb
>
>The card doesn't make the course look too bad, though 11/12/17 look like
>they'd be quite a test for anyone. What made it so hard to manage?
>
>KT
My head....lol
It was one of those days that I felt like my alignment was off,
nothing seemed to fit.
I started off fine but finished beat up , shot 94.
We have a hole at our home course (been playing there 25 years) and
still when I tee it up I feel my alignment is off so I usally manage
to hit a poor shot.
I think most played have that feeling on certain holes.
Daveb
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Date: 25 Sep 2006 17:16:53
From: long&left
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
|
DaveB wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 17:47:18 -0500, "Kevin D. Timm"
> <kevindtimm@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> DaveB wrote:
>>
>>> I played a course about six months from the tips and said I would
>>> never play the course again (kicked my ass).
>>>
>>> Well, today I played it again from the tips and thought I would play
>>> smart, manage the course, think my way around it.
>>>
>>> Guess what? it kicked my ass big time. I will never play there again,
>>> at least till my ass heals.
>>>
>>> When I got home I felt like I had played about 3 rounds instead of
>>> one.
>>>
>>> Best
>>> Daveb
>> But, what were the course specifics (rating/slope) and your index?
>> Also, an example of the card and the shots/clubs played.
>
> Empire Lakes
> 6933/133
> Index 8.3
>
> card
>
> http://www.empirelakes.com/course.asp
> Daveb
hey DaveB! double_entendre and tt play that course occasionally. Have
you hooked up with them yet? They don't post often to RSG anymore but I
can get you guys together if you don't know them. And, when are you
coming up this way? Uncle K is here and we're having dinner tonight and
playing Cypress Ridge tomorrow. He and his wife are on their way to
their winter home in AZ...I'm always looking for new blood :)
Dave
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Date: 26 Sep 2006 00:21:29
From: DaveB
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
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On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 17:16:53 -0700, long&left <nospam@diespammers.com >
wrote:
>DaveB wrote:
>> On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 17:47:18 -0500, "Kevin D. Timm"
>> <kevindtimm@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> DaveB wrote:
>>>
>>>> I played a course about six months from the tips and said I would
>>>> never play the course again (kicked my ass).
>>>>
>>>> Well, today I played it again from the tips and thought I would play
>>>> smart, manage the course, think my way around it.
>>>>
>>>> Guess what? it kicked my ass big time. I will never play there again,
>>>> at least till my ass heals.
>>>>
>>>> When I got home I felt like I had played about 3 rounds instead of
>>>> one.
>>>>
>>>> Best
>>>> Daveb
>>> But, what were the course specifics (rating/slope) and your index?
>>> Also, an example of the card and the shots/clubs played.
>>
>> Empire Lakes
>> 6933/133
>> Index 8.3
>>
>> card
>>
>> http://www.empirelakes.com/course.asp
>> Daveb
>
>hey DaveB! double_entendre and tt play that course occasionally. Have
>you hooked up with them yet? They don't post often to RSG anymore but I
>can get you guys together if you don't know them. And, when are you
>coming up this way? Uncle K is here and we're having dinner tonight and
>playing Cypress Ridge tomorrow. He and his wife are on their way to
>their winter home in AZ...I'm always looking for new blood :)
>Dave
I was trying to hook up with them and play but havn't seen them
around.
I mentioned to one of my partners about going up to visit you and he
wanted to make a run up there before the fog starts.
I like playing in the fog.......:)
I have to go to Indy next week on biz, but when I get back lets try
and firm something up.
I'm looking forward to meeting you and playing some golf.
Best
Daveb
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Date: 25 Sep 2006 21:20:58
From: long&left
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
|
DaveB wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 17:16:53 -0700, long&left <nospam@diespammers.com>
> wrote:
>
>> DaveB wrote:
>>> On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 17:47:18 -0500, "Kevin D. Timm"
>>> <kevindtimm@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> DaveB wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I played a course about six months from the tips and said I would
>>>>> never play the course again (kicked my ass).
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, today I played it again from the tips and thought I would play
>>>>> smart, manage the course, think my way around it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Guess what? it kicked my ass big time. I will never play there again,
>>>>> at least till my ass heals.
>>>>>
>>>>> When I got home I felt like I had played about 3 rounds instead of
>>>>> one.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best
>>>>> Daveb
>>>> But, what were the course specifics (rating/slope) and your index?
>>>> Also, an example of the card and the shots/clubs played.
>>> Empire Lakes
>>> 6933/133
>>> Index 8.3
>>>
>>> card
>>>
>>> http://www.empirelakes.com/course.asp
>>> Daveb
>> hey DaveB! double_entendre and tt play that course occasionally. Have
>> you hooked up with them yet? They don't post often to RSG anymore but I
>> can get you guys together if you don't know them. And, when are you
>> coming up this way? Uncle K is here and we're having dinner tonight and
>> playing Cypress Ridge tomorrow. He and his wife are on their way to
>> their winter home in AZ...I'm always looking for new blood :)
>> Dave
>
>
> I was trying to hook up with them and play but havn't seen them
> around.
>
> I mentioned to one of my partners about going up to visit you and he
> wanted to make a run up there before the fog starts.
>
> I like playing in the fog.......:)
>
> I have to go to Indy next week on biz, but when I get back lets try
> and firm something up.
>
> I'm looking forward to meeting you and playing some golf.
>
> Best
>
> Daveb
if you like playing in the fog you're coming to the right place :) The
nice thing about the fog is, when it's here it's not windy!
email me when you get back from midcountryland and let's get a date together
dave at ddpcad dot com
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Date: 08 Sep 2006 19:02:06
From: Dene
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
|
Rude Dog wrote:
>
> I think it really depends on the course and conditions. I was just thinking
> about this very thing the other day, because I was finding that I hardy ever
> seem to use anything over a 5-iron on par 4s. I like a course where I get to
> use every club in the bag, and not just driver short iron to every hole.
> Here's a breakdown of a round I played a couple of weeks ago. Par 72, 6646
> yards, 125 slope, 70.8 rating.
>
> Hole - Par - Yardage - Clubs
> 1 - 5 - 561 - D, U, 60
> 2 - 4 - 389 - D, PW
> 3 - 3 - 216 - 4
> 4 - 4 - 398 - D, 8
> 5 - 4 - 410 - D, 8
> 6 - 3 - 141 - 9
> 7 - 4 - 371 - U, 9
> 8 - 5 - 550 - D, 8, 60
> 9 - 4 - 430 - D, 7
> 10 - 4 - 405 - D, 6
> 11 - 4 - 376 - U, 8
> 12 - 5 - 495 - D, 4
> 13 - 4 - 373 - D, 56
> 14 - 3 - 170 - 8
> 15 - 4 - 412 - D, 51
> 16 - 4 - 292 - 3, 60
> 17 - 3 - 162 - 8
> 18 - 5 - 498 - D, 3
>
> D = Driver
> U = 17 degree utility club
> PW = Pitching wedge
> 51 = 51 degree wedge
> 56 = 56 degree wedge
> 60 = 60 degree wedge
Any doubts about your single digit hdcp forever eliminated. : >
Curious though....why the 8 iron on number 8? Laying up?
Also, what was your score? How many putts?
-Greg
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| | |
Date: 11 Sep 2006 09:47:27
From: Rude Dog
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
|
"Dene" <gdstrue@aol.com > wrote in message
news:1157767326.697488.153610@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
>
> Rude Dog wrote:
>
>>
>> I think it really depends on the course and conditions. I was just
>> thinking
>> about this very thing the other day, because I was finding that I hardy
>> ever
>> seem to use anything over a 5-iron on par 4s. I like a course where I get
>> to
>> use every club in the bag, and not just driver short iron to every hole.
>> Here's a breakdown of a round I played a couple of weeks ago. Par 72,
>> 6646
>> yards, 125 slope, 70.8 rating.
>>
>> Hole - Par - Yardage - Clubs
>> 1 - 5 - 561 - D, U, 60
>> 2 - 4 - 389 - D, PW
>> 3 - 3 - 216 - 4
>> 4 - 4 - 398 - D, 8
>> 5 - 4 - 410 - D, 8
>> 6 - 3 - 141 - 9
>> 7 - 4 - 371 - U, 9
>> 8 - 5 - 550 - D, 8, 60
>> 9 - 4 - 430 - D, 7
>> 10 - 4 - 405 - D, 6
>> 11 - 4 - 376 - U, 8
>> 12 - 5 - 495 - D, 4
>> 13 - 4 - 373 - D, 56
>> 14 - 3 - 170 - 8
>> 15 - 4 - 412 - D, 51
>> 16 - 4 - 292 - 3, 60
>> 17 - 3 - 162 - 8
>> 18 - 5 - 498 - D, 3
>>
>> D = Driver
>> U = 17 degree utility club
>> PW = Pitching wedge
>> 51 = 51 degree wedge
>> 56 = 56 degree wedge
>> 60 = 60 degree wedge
>
> Any doubts about your single digit hdcp forever eliminated. :>
> Curious though....why the 8 iron on number 8? Laying up?
>
> Also, what was your score? How many putts?
>
> -Greg
>
Yes, I layed up on #8. Score was 83 with 33 putts.
|
| |
Date: 08 Sep 2006 18:45:03
From: Rude Dog
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
|
"Larry Bud" <larrybud2002@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1157752813.458491.216940@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>I normally play my home course from the 2nd longest tees, a not long
> 6427, but it is rated at 72.3/135. I play to a 5 index. Not too
> shabby.
>
> Today I joined up with a guy that wanted to play the tips, so I figured
> what the hell. A cool 7109, 74.3/140. Frankly, that rating looks a
> little low to me.
>
> Well, I've decided that's too long for me. While I didn't hit the ball
> all that well, I hit a grand total of 4 greens (I average 9). There
> were 4 par fours that in the wind today, I just couldn't reach. I'm
> thinking without the wind and with good drives, I probably could reach
> two of those. One of the par 5's is 632 uphill, It must have played to
> at least 700. Driver, 4 wood, 4 wood put me right in front! There's a
> 472, 435, 416 (uphill, plays to about 450), 456, and 449 yard par 4s on
> the card.I was thanking God for the break when we reached the 205 yard
> par 3!
>
> I carded an 86, my 3rd highest score all year. The amazing part is
> that is only a 9.4 differential!
>
> The guy I played with could absolutely kill the ball. My good 270 yard
> drives were 50 yards behind him. I'm guessing he probably shot about
> 81 or 82. Not the greatest shortgame or putter in the world.
>
I think it really depends on the course and conditions. I was just thinking
about this very thing the other day, because I was finding that I hardy ever
seem to use anything over a 5-iron on par 4s. I like a course where I get to
use every club in the bag, and not just driver short iron to every hole.
Here's a breakdown of a round I played a couple of weeks ago. Par 72, 6646
yards, 125 slope, 70.8 rating.
Hole - Par - Yardage - Clubs
1 - 5 - 561 - D, U, 60
2 - 4 - 389 - D, PW
3 - 3 - 216 - 4
4 - 4 - 398 - D, 8
5 - 4 - 410 - D, 8
6 - 3 - 141 - 9
7 - 4 - 371 - U, 9
8 - 5 - 550 - D, 8, 60
9 - 4 - 430 - D, 7
10 - 4 - 405 - D, 6
11 - 4 - 376 - U, 8
12 - 5 - 495 - D, 4
13 - 4 - 373 - D, 56
14 - 3 - 170 - 8
15 - 4 - 412 - D, 51
16 - 4 - 292 - 3, 60
17 - 3 - 162 - 8
18 - 5 - 498 - D, 3
D = Driver
U = 17 degree utility club
PW = Pitching wedge
51 = 51 degree wedge
56 = 56 degree wedge
60 = 60 degree wedge
This course doesn't seem over 6600 yards to me because of the length of the
par 4s. On the long par 5s I'm using a lob wedge for my 3 shot and the short
ones I can reach in 2 with an iron, so they aren't really a problem.
From the tips this course is 7101 yards, 130 slope, 73.2 rating. I might try
that next time, but I think the optimum course distance for me is somewhere
between the two ... depends on the length of the par 4s.
|
| | |
Date: 09 Sep 2006 14:03:34
From: warren montgomery
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
|
> I think it really depends on the course and conditions. I was just
> thinking about this very thing the other day, because I was finding that I
> hardy ever seem to use anything over a 5-iron on par 4s. I like a course
> where I get to use every club in the bag, and not just driver short iron
> to every hole. Here's a breakdown of a round I played a couple of weeks
> ago. Par 72, 6646 yards, 125 slope, 70.8 rating.
>
> Hole - Par - Yardage - Clubs
> 1 - 5 - 561 - D, U, 60
> 2 - 4 - 389 - D, PW
> 3 - 3 - 216 - 4
> 4 - 4 - 398 - D, 8
> 5 - 4 - 410 - D, 8
> 6 - 3 - 141 - 9
> 7 - 4 - 371 - U, 9
> 8 - 5 - 550 - D, 8, 60
> 9 - 4 - 430 - D, 7
> 10 - 4 - 405 - D, 6
> 11 - 4 - 376 - U, 8
> 12 - 5 - 495 - D, 4
> 13 - 4 - 373 - D, 56
> 14 - 3 - 170 - 8
> 15 - 4 - 412 - D, 51
> 16 - 4 - 292 - 3, 60
> 17 - 3 - 162 - 8
> 18 - 5 - 498 - D, 3
>
> D = Driver
> U = 17 degree utility club
> PW = Pitching wedge
> 51 = 51 degree wedge
> 56 = 56 degree wedge
> 60 = 60 degree wedge
>
> This course doesn't seem over 6600 yards to me because of the length of
> the par 4s. On the long par 5s I'm using a lob wedge for my 3 shot and the
> short ones I can reach in 2 with an iron, so they aren't really a problem.
>
> From the tips this course is 7101 yards, 130 slope, 73.2 rating. I might
> try that next time, but I think the optimum course distance for me is
> somewhere between the two ... depends on the length of the par 4s.
Yikes! For me to play those clubs in a typical round I'd have to play
something under 6000 yards. For example, you played the second hole
driver-PW. For me to hit those two clubs the hole would have to be about
340, not 389. (Sure, on a 340 yard hole a perfect drive will put me in
sandwedge territory, but that perfect drive happens only one time out of 10
and most of the time the drive is imperfect enough to leave a full PW or
more). I figured out what holes I'd play the clubs shown above on and sure
enough when I add up the yardages on those holes I get about 5800. On my
home course I play the whites at about 6200 -- a little short, but most of
the distance difference between blue and white happens on 4 holes where the
extra distance makes those 4 holes miserable. On oher courses I'll look to
play at about 6400 and feel I'm using all my clubs and having fun.
--
Warren Montgomery (wamontgomery@att.net)
http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery
|
| | |
Date: 11 Sep 2006 04:47:39
From: bill-o
Subject: Re: Wie's response to today's score (sperler)
|
On 8-Sep-2006, "Fairway" <arminsson@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Itīs an insult to sportsmanship to let her play in menīs contests, an
> insult to her partner and - yes, insult to everyone. Making golf a
> farce. I donīt like it. Let the silly little bitch play on her own
> playground
You're seriously wacked F, or is that seriouly F'ed whack(o)?
--
bill-o
A "gimme" can best be defined as an agreement between
two golfers neither of whom can putt very well.
|
| |
Date: 08 Sep 2006 18:24:46
From: Adam
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
|
Back when I was a six, I was a member at a course that was about 6700
from the back, and I'd say that was about the limit for me. It was
about 6400 from the regular tees, which I probably used about 2/3 of
the time. I scored a bit better, and just enjoyed it more. I must say
that I learned a great deal about course management by mixing it up,
especially off the tee.
Adam
Larry Bud wrote:
> I normally play my home course from the 2nd longest tees, a not long
> 6427, but it is rated at 72.3/135. I play to a 5 index. Not too
> shabby.
>
> Today I joined up with a guy that wanted to play the tips, so I figured
> what the hell. A cool 7109, 74.3/140. Frankly, that rating looks a
> little low to me.
>
> Well, I've decided that's too long for me. While I didn't hit the ball
> all that well, I hit a grand total of 4 greens (I average 9). There
> were 4 par fours that in the wind today, I just couldn't reach. I'm
> thinking without the wind and with good drives, I probably could reach
> two of those. One of the par 5's is 632 uphill, It must have played to
> at least 700. Driver, 4 wood, 4 wood put me right in front! There's a
> 472, 435, 416 (uphill, plays to about 450), 456, and 449 yard par 4s on
> the card.I was thanking God for the break when we reached the 205 yard
> par 3!
>
> I carded an 86, my 3rd highest score all year. The amazing part is
> that is only a 9.4 differential!
>
> The guy I played with could absolutely kill the ball. My good 270 yard
> drives were 50 yards behind him. I'm guessing he probably shot about
> 81 or 82. Not the greatest shortgame or putter in the world.
|
| | |
Date: 08 Sep 2006 23:59:32
From: SJ
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
|
"Adam" <adam.gutterman@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1157765086.176379.246680@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Back when I was a six, I was a member at a course that was about 6700
from the back, and I'd say that was about the limit for me. It was
about 6400 from the regular tees, which I probably used about 2/3 of
the time. I scored a bit better, and just enjoyed it more. I must say
that I learned a great deal about course management by mixing it up,
especially off the tee.
Adam
Larry Bud wrote:
> I normally play my home course from the 2nd longest tees, a not long
> 6427, but it is rated at 72.3/135. I play to a 5 index. Not too
> shabby.
>
> Today I joined up with a guy that wanted to play the tips, so I figured
> what the hell. A cool 7109, 74.3/140. Frankly, that rating looks a
> little low to me.
>
> Well, I've decided that's too long for me. While I didn't hit the ball
> all that well, I hit a grand total of 4 greens (I average 9). There
> were 4 par fours that in the wind today, I just couldn't reach. I'm
> thinking without the wind and with good drives, I probably could reach
> two of those. One of the par 5's is 632 uphill, It must have played to
> at least 700. Driver, 4 wood, 4 wood put me right in front! There's a
> 472, 435, 416 (uphill, plays to about 450), 456, and 449 yard par 4s on
> the card.I was thanking God for the break when we reached the 205 yard
> par 3!
>
> I carded an 86, my 3rd highest score all year. The amazing part is
> that is only a 9.4 differential!
>
> The guy I played with could absolutely kill the ball. My good 270 yard
> drives were 50 yards behind him. I'm guessing he probably shot about
> 81 or 82. Not the greatest shortgame or putter in the world.
Really makes you appreciate, (or hate), the pro's who play 7000yd+ courses
routinely.
Scott
|
| | | |
Date: 09 Sep 2006 12:29:27
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
|
I have fun on par-5 holes that I cannot get near in 2 and on par-5
holes that I can try for.
Why couldn't I have fun if those were par-4 holes but I was playing
from the tips for the same result?
If you play from tees that don't give you the same results with your
normal strategy - well, that's when course management comes in. And
course management is fun.
|
| |
Date: 08 Sep 2006 20:37:40
From: Tom K
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
|
It's not just distance. It's how deadly that distance is. Where they put
the trouble.
Royce Brook "East" NJ is 6447 yards, slope 131 from the Green Tees (between
the blues and whites). I can handle that distance comfortably - I'm
guessing I'm probably about a 16. While it has a lot of tall grass (3 ft
high rye), it's still kind of open. You can pound the driver and not get
punished constantly.
On the other hand, Mid Ocean Bermuda is 6520 yards, slope 135 from the
Blues, only 73 yards longer, but there were 2 holes where I didn't have
enough distance in my driver to clear the water from the tee.
--Tom
"Larry Bud" <larrybud2002@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1157752813.458491.216940@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>I normally play my home course from the 2nd longest tees, a not long
> 6427, but it is rated at 72.3/135. I play to a 5 index. Not too
> shabby.
>
> Today I joined up with a guy that wanted to play the tips, so I figured
> what the hell. A cool 7109, 74.3/140. Frankly, that rating looks a
> little low to me.
>
> Well, I've decided that's too long for me. While I didn't hit the ball
> all that well, I hit a grand total of 4 greens (I average 9). There
> were 4 par fours that in the wind today, I just couldn't reach. I'm
> thinking without the wind and with good drives, I probably could reach
> two of those. One of the par 5's is 632 uphill, It must have played to
> at least 700. Driver, 4 wood, 4 wood put me right in front! There's a
> 472, 435, 416 (uphill, plays to about 450), 456, and 449 yard par 4s on
> the card.I was thanking God for the break when we reached the 205 yard
> par 3!
>
> I carded an 86, my 3rd highest score all year. The amazing part is
> that is only a 9.4 differential!
>
> The guy I played with could absolutely kill the ball. My good 270 yard
> drives were 50 yards behind him. I'm guessing he probably shot about
> 81 or 82. Not the greatest shortgame or putter in the world.
>
|
| |
Date: 08 Sep 2006 17:33:12
From:
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
|
one should never play any marker that that s/he isn't comfortable with,
regardless.
=3D=3D=3D
>Today I joined up with a guy that wanted to
>play the tips, so I figured what the hell. A
>cool 7109, 74.3/140. Frankly, that rating looks a little low
>to me.
>Well, I've decided that's too long for me.
>m h o
>=A0v =83e
>d r i v e =A0l e s s =A0- =A0h e l p =A0c r e a t e =A0a =A0g l u t
|
| |
Date: 08 Sep 2006 15:33:15
From: Dene
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
|
Larry Bud wrote:
> I normally play my home course from the 2nd longest tees, a not long
> 6427, but it is rated at 72.3/135. I play to a 5 index. Not too
> shabby.
>
> Today I joined up with a guy that wanted to play the tips, so I figured
> what the hell. A cool 7109, 74.3/140. Frankly, that rating looks a
> little low to me.
>
> Well, I've decided that's too long for me. While I didn't hit the ball
> all that well, I hit a grand total of 4 greens (I average 9). There
> were 4 par fours that in the wind today, I just couldn't reach. I'm
> thinking without the wind and with good drives, I probably could reach
> two of those. One of the par 5's is 632 uphill, It must have played to
> at least 700. Driver, 4 wood, 4 wood put me right in front! There's a
> 472, 435, 416 (uphill, plays to about 450), 456, and 449 yard par 4s on
> the card.I was thanking God for the break when we reached the 205 yard
> par 3!
>
> I carded an 86, my 3rd highest score all year. The amazing part is
> that is only a 9.4 differential!
>
> The guy I played with could absolutely kill the ball. My good 270 yard
> drives were 50 yards behind him. I'm guessing he probably shot about
> 81 or 82. Not the greatest shortgame or putter in the world.
Personally, 6400 is tops for me. Longer tracks require that I have to
use my fairway woods on all 2nd shots for many of the par 4's. And
that ain't fun!
-Greg
|
| |
Date: 08 Sep 2006 22:12:13
From: Matt
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
|
"Larry Bud" <larrybud2002@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1157752813.458491.216940@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>I normally play my home course from the 2nd longest tees, a not long
> 6427, but it is rated at 72.3/135. I play to a 5 index. Not too
> shabby.
>
> Today I joined up with a guy that wanted to play the tips, so I figured
> what the hell. A cool 7109, 74.3/140. Frankly, that rating looks a
> little low to me.
>
> Well, I've decided that's too long for me. While I didn't hit the ball
> all that well, I hit a grand total of 4 greens (I average 9). There
> were 4 par fours that in the wind today, I just couldn't reach. I'm
> thinking without the wind and with good drives, I probably could reach
> two of those. One of the par 5's is 632 uphill, It must have played to
> at least 700. Driver, 4 wood, 4 wood put me right in front! There's a
> 472, 435, 416 (uphill, plays to about 450), 456, and 449 yard par 4s on
> the card.I was thanking God for the break when we reached the 205 yard
> par 3!
>
> I carded an 86, my 3rd highest score all year. The amazing part is
> that is only a 9.4 differential!
It depends on the conditions for me. The course I play the most is Mill
Creek and I generally play the blue tees, they measure in the 6715. I can
shoot anywhere between 73 and 80 from blue. At times I play the times,
which is 7080, and as long as the course isnt wet and I can get some roll on
my tee shots, I dont have much of a problem with the tips. If it was wet,
i'd have to hit 5 wood into a lot of greens and it would be difficult for me
to post a good score. The longest hole from the tips is a 464 yard par 4,
and its a driver, 4/5 iron for me typically. I wouldnt want to go more
than 7100 though, I dont find the game as much fun when im hitting
woods/long irons into a lot of the par 4's. I have the most fun on courses
between 6400 and 6700 yards. I even find playing the ladies tees to be
quite a bit of fun.
|
| |
Date: 09 Sep 2006 07:39:47
From: Golfwichita
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
|
"Larry Bud" <larrybud2002@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1157752813.458491.216940@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>I normally play my home course from the 2nd longest tees, a not long
> 6427, but it is rated at 72.3/135. I play to a 5 index. Not too
> shabby.
>
> Today I joined up with a guy that wanted to play the tips, so I figured
> what the hell. A cool 7109, 74.3/140. Frankly, that rating looks a
> little low to me.
>
> Well, I've decided that's too long for me. While I didn't hit the ball
> all that well, I hit a grand total of 4 greens (I average 9). There
> were 4 par fours that in the wind today, I just couldn't reach. I'm
> thinking without the wind and with good drives, I probably could reach
> two of those. One of the par 5's is 632 uphill, It must have played to
> at least 700. Driver, 4 wood, 4 wood put me right in front! There's a
> 472, 435, 416 (uphill, plays to about 450), 456, and 449 yard par 4s on
> the card.I was thanking God for the break when we reached the 205 yard
> par 3!
>
> I carded an 86, my 3rd highest score all year. The amazing part is
> that is only a 9.4 differential!
>
> The guy I played with could absolutely kill the ball. My good 270 yard
> drives were 50 yards behind him. I'm guessing he probably shot about
> 81 or 82. Not the greatest shortgame or putter in the world.
>
On the muni course I play from 3 of the 4 tees depending on who I am playing
with. In the men's club we play from the tips (blue) which is 7361,
75.5/126; with my regular Sunday group we play from the whites which is
6863, 72.8/119; and on rare occasions I hook up with a senior group of 58+
yo (I'm 44) and we play from the golds 6398, 71.0/117. I "feel" the most
comfortable from the whites where I play from most of the time. I score the
best from here as well. My next choice would be from the blues even though
many of my approach shots are usually with longer clubs, I can maneuver a
pretty good round. My last choice would be from the golds, even though I
am hitting pretty much wedges for approach shots I find I don't score as
well. Given the fact that the "old guys" are pretty salty players in their
own right, you better bring your "A" game. I find that I score better
hitting more 3Ws and irons from the tees to put me in my comfort zone.
Golfwichita
|
| |
Date: 09 Sep 2006 04:25:46
From: Larry Bud
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
|
> BTW, my home course's rated distance is 7032 (its a bit longer now since
> they built a new tee on one hole but it hasn't been re-rated) and its
> rated at 74.1/134. So that 74.3 on the course you played sounds just about
> right, since yardage is by far the dominant factor in calculating course
> rating. I would think that if your good drives go 270, you should have no
> problem with those par 4s, the longest at 472 is only 202 for the approach.
It would definitely be true if they were straight and flat. All of
those par 4's are fairly sharp doglegs which also require precision to
be able to get around the bend. Hit it left on the dogleg right and
you've got 230 in, hit it too far right and you're blocked out.
On the 470 yard par 4, even with a 270 yard drive, it's not far enough
to get around the corner. You have to hit it to the 180 marker, and in
proper position. Then the 2nd shot plays slightly uphill, maybe a
1/2 club more.
There's also a most insideous 400 yard par 4 you'd ever play. Another
dogleg left, elevated tee, it looks harmless enough. It it to the 150
marker right in the center of the FW, and you're blocked out of an
elevated green. To the right is hazard, to the left of the FW is
hazard, and on the left edge of the bend is a bunker.
|
| |
Date: 09 Sep 2006 10:37:49
From: Dave Lee
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
|
"Larry Bud" <larrybud2002@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1157752813.458491.216940@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> I normally play my home course from the 2nd longest tees, a not long
> 6427, but it is rated at 72.3/135. I play to a 5 index. Not too
> shabby.
>
> Today I joined up with a guy that wanted to play the tips, so I figured
> what the hell. A cool 7109, 74.3/140. Frankly, that rating looks a
> little low to me.
>
> Well, I've decided that's too long for me. While I didn't hit the ball
> all that well, I hit a grand total of 4 greens (I average 9). There
> were 4 par fours that in the wind today, I just couldn't reach. I'm
> thinking without the wind and with good drives, I probably could reach
> two of those. One of the par 5's is 632 uphill, It must have played to
> at least 700. Driver, 4 wood, 4 wood put me right in front! There's a
> 472, 435, 416 (uphill, plays to about 450), 456, and 449 yard par 4s on
> the card.I was thanking God for the break when we reached the 205 yard
> par 3!
>
> I carded an 86, my 3rd highest score all year. The amazing part is
> that is only a 9.4 differential!
>
> The guy I played with could absolutely kill the ball. My good 270 yard
> drives were 50 yards behind him. I'm guessing he probably shot about
> 81 or 82. Not the greatest shortgame or putter in the world.
>
Had an interesting experience a while back playing with a guy whose index at
the time was identical to mine (both 6.4). He was a good 40 yards longer
than me (my driver SS is in the high 90's - his probably more like 105 to
110). The course that we were playing had blue tees at 6700 and whites at
6250 (difference of something like 2 strokes rating and 7 points slope). We
were deciding which tees to play and had interesting comments. Mine was
- I'm very unlikely to shoot to my handicap on 6700 yard tees
His comment was
- I'm very unlikely to shoot my handicap on the 6250 yard tees
We played the blues - he won. I think that everyone has kind of a "sweet
spot" driven primarily by how long they are off the tee.
I think that it was Judy Rankin who once (several years ago) gave an
interesting answer to the question "what tees should I play". The answer was
"whatever tees it is that puts a 7i into your hands after a good drive on an
average length par 4".
dave
|
| | |
Date: 09 Sep 2006 14:59:54
From: Bear
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
|
On Sat, 09 Sep 2006 10:37:49 GMT, "Dave Lee"
<DaveLeeNC@ix.netcom.RemovE.com > wrote:
>
>"Larry Bud" <larrybud2002@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:1157752813.458491.216940@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>> I normally play my home course from the 2nd longest tees, a not long
>> 6427, but it is rated at 72.3/135. I play to a 5 index. Not too
>> shabby.
>>
>> Today I joined up with a guy that wanted to play the tips, so I figured
>> what the hell. A cool 7109, 74.3/140. Frankly, that rating looks a
>> little low to me.
>>
>> Well, I've decided that's too long for me. While I didn't hit the ball
>> all that well, I hit a grand total of 4 greens (I average 9). There
>> were 4 par fours that in the wind today, I just couldn't reach. I'm
>> thinking without the wind and with good drives, I probably could reach
>> two of those. One of the par 5's is 632 uphill, It must have played to
>> at least 700. Driver, 4 wood, 4 wood put me right in front! There's a
>> 472, 435, 416 (uphill, plays to about 450), 456, and 449 yard par 4s on
>> the card.I was thanking God for the break when we reached the 205 yard
>> par 3!
>>
>> I carded an 86, my 3rd highest score all year. The amazing part is
>> that is only a 9.4 differential!
>>
>> The guy I played with could absolutely kill the ball. My good 270 yard
>> drives were 50 yards behind him. I'm guessing he probably shot about
>> 81 or 82. Not the greatest shortgame or putter in the world.
>>
>
>Had an interesting experience a while back playing with a guy whose index at
>the time was identical to mine (both 6.4). He was a good 40 yards longer
>than me (my driver SS is in the high 90's - his probably more like 105 to
>110). The course that we were playing had blue tees at 6700 and whites at
>6250 (difference of something like 2 strokes rating and 7 points slope). We
>were deciding which tees to play and had interesting comments. Mine was
>
> - I'm very unlikely to shoot to my handicap on 6700 yard tees
>
>His comment was
>
> - I'm very unlikely to shoot my handicap on the 6250 yard tees
>
>We played the blues - he won. I think that everyone has kind of a "sweet
>spot" driven primarily by how long they are off the tee.
>
>I think that it was Judy Rankin who once (several years ago) gave an
>interesting answer to the question "what tees should I play". The answer was
>"whatever tees it is that puts a 7i into your hands after a good drive on an
>average length par 4".
I agree with that except what constitutes an average length par 4?
At home I max out at around 6500 yards but when traveling to parts
east (Okanagan, Kootneys...) more yards are not a problem. Gotta love
playing at altitude great for the ego :)
|
| | | |
Date: 09 Sep 2006 20:41:30
From: Dave Lee
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
|
"Bear" <bearlysane@XShawX.ca > wrote in message
news:l4l5g25gvmk5v2r5smp79s73fb2lgsgrsp@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 09 Sep 2006 10:37:49 GMT, "Dave Lee"
> <DaveLeeNC@ix.netcom.RemovE.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Larry Bud" <larrybud2002@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:1157752813.458491.216940@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >> I normally play my home course from the 2nd longest tees, a not long
> >> 6427, but it is rated at 72.3/135. I play to a 5 index. Not too
> >> shabby.
> >>
> >> snip
> >I think that it was Judy Rankin who once (several years ago) gave an
> >interesting answer to the question "what tees should I play". The answer
was
> >"whatever tees it is that puts a 7i into your hands after a good drive on
an
> >average length par 4".
>
> I agree with that except what constitutes an average length par 4?
>
> At home I max out at around 6500 yards but when traveling to parts
> east (Okanagan, Kootneys...) more yards are not a problem. Gotta love
> playing at altitude great for the ego :)
I think what she was saying is basically (assuming that the course has 10
par 4's) an 'average par 4' would be roughly the length of the 5th/6th
longest par 4 (median instead of average in my interpretation).
dave
|
| |
Date: 09 Sep 2006 06:55:17
From: Douglas Siebert
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
|
"Larry Bud" <larrybud2002@yahoo.com > writes:
>I normally play my home course from the 2nd longest tees, a not long
>6427, but it is rated at 72.3/135. I play to a 5 index. Not too
>shabby.
>Today I joined up with a guy that wanted to play the tips, so I figured
>what the hell. A cool 7109, 74.3/140. Frankly, that rating looks a
>little low to me.
>Well, I've decided that's too long for me. While I didn't hit the ball
>all that well, I hit a grand total of 4 greens (I average 9). There
>were 4 par fours that in the wind today, I just couldn't reach. I'm
>thinking without the wind and with good drives, I probably could reach
>two of those. One of the par 5's is 632 uphill, It must have played to
>at least 700. Driver, 4 wood, 4 wood put me right in front! There's a
>472, 435, 416 (uphill, plays to about 450), 456, and 449 yard par 4s on
>the card.I was thanking God for the break when we reached the 205 yard
>par 3!
>I carded an 86, my 3rd highest score all year. The amazing part is
>that is only a 9.4 differential!
>The guy I played with could absolutely kill the ball. My good 270 yard
>drives were 50 yards behind him. I'm guessing he probably shot about
>81 or 82. Not the greatest shortgame or putter in the world.
My home course is just over 7050 yards and I play from those tees almost
every time, and don't find it to be long, even when it is really wet and
my drives plug a foot from where they land. The longest course I ever
played was 7510 yards (in Missouri, so not at any altitude) and while it
was long it didn't seem unduly so -- though I'd probably not go looking
for something longer.
But there are different types of length. The longest par 4 on my home
course is only 449 yards (there are 3 at that length) but the shortest
is 368, the rest are all over 390. Courses that have a couple driveable
par 4s have to make up the distance somewhere, without that you don't
need the killer long par 4s. The par 3s are all around 200 yards, so
more of the length is wrapped up there than on some courses that have one
or two wedge shot par 3s. It probably ought to be a par 71 as one of the
par 5s is only 494, but thats a tough (blind downhill) drive to a crowned
fairway and I get more 6s than 4s there despite having an 8 iron to the
(steep uphill) green after a good drive.
The things that help a course feel shorter to me are having 3 or 4 "up and
down for birdie" chances. Whether those are reachable par 5s or driveable
par 4s is irrelevant, but if I have to play everything 'honestly', it feels
longer. Give me a few chances to two putt or get up and down for birdie,
even if I don't actually take advantage, and I don't mind having a couple
ball breaker uphill 490 yard par 4s where I know I've got to hit two quality
shots to get it home in regulation.
BTW, my home course's rated distance is 7032 (its a bit longer now since
they built a new tee on one hole but it hasn't been re-rated) and its
rated at 74.1/134. So that 74.3 on the course you played sounds just about
right, since yardage is by far the dominant factor in calculating course
rating. I would think that if your good drives go 270, you should have no
problem with those par 4s, the longest at 472 is only 202 for the approach.
I think what's "too long" for someone all goes back to my simple method for
choosing tees you should play. If you find yourself hitting mostly wedges
to par 4s, move back, if you find yourself hitting fairway woods or laying
up to more than two of them, move up. Most people can determine that by
looking at the scorecard for a minute and sizing up what clubs they'd need
for the approaches. You can't see uphill and into the wind on the card, but
neither can you see downhill or with the wind so it all roughly cancels out.
Better method than going by rating or slope, like most golfers do.
--
Douglas Siebert dsiebert@excisethis.khamsin.net
You're only young once, but you can be immature forever.
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Date: 09 Sep 2006 19:07:03
From: JimAmigo
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
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Simple, play the tees that fit your game. It's not a job and you pay
for greens fees so you might as well enjoy the game. No one has fun
struggling at lenghts their game isn't suited for.
I'm a 5 and like playing anywhere between 6,300 to 6,700.
Playing from the wrong tees is the main reason for slow play. Does
struggling all day mean you get your money's worth? This is one issue I
have with my fellow golfers and makes no sense.
Larry Bud wrote:
> I normally play my home course from the 2nd longest tees, a not long
> 6427, but it is rated at 72.3/135. I play to a 5 index. Not too
> shabby.
>
> Today I joined up with a guy that wanted to play the tips, so I figured
> what the hell. A cool 7109, 74.3/140. Frankly, that rating looks a
> little low to me.
>
> Well, I've decided that's too long for me. While I didn't hit the ball
> all that well, I hit a grand total of 4 greens (I average 9). There
> were 4 par fours that in the wind today, I just couldn't reach. I'm
> thinking without the wind and with good drives, I probably could reach
> two of those. One of the par 5's is 632 uphill, It must have played to
> at least 700. Driver, 4 wood, 4 wood put me right in front! There's a
> 472, 435, 416 (uphill, plays to about 450), 456, and 449 yard par 4s on
> the card.I was thanking God for the break when we reached the 205 yard
> par 3!
>
> I carded an 86, my 3rd highest score all year. The amazing part is
> that is only a 9.4 differential!
>
> The guy I played with could absolutely kill the ball. My good 270 yard
> drives were 50 yards behind him. I'm guessing he probably shot about
> 81 or 82. Not the greatest shortgame or putter in the world.
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Date: 09 Sep 2006 19:23:55
From: long&left
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
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JimAmigo wrote:
> Simple, play the tees that fit your game. It's not a job and you pay
> for greens fees so you might as well enjoy the game. No one has fun
> struggling at lenghts their game isn't suited for.
>
> I'm a 5 and like playing anywhere between 6,300 to 6,700.
>
> Playing from the wrong tees is the main reason for slow play. Does
> struggling all day mean you get your money's worth? This is one issue I
> have with my fellow golfers and makes no sense.
>
agreed! I had the pleasure of playing golf with 3 RSG friends yesterday
and just before we teed off I asked the starter, "we're 3 prox 10
handicaps and 1 prox 20 handicap, what tees should we play?" He told us
to play the blue tees for the 10's and the white tees for the 20 and
that's what we did. It was, IMO, perfect distances for all of us, but
unfortunately those groups in front of us obviously didn't ask the same
question of the starter :(
Dave
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Date: 10 Sep 2006 06:15:50
From: rich
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
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My rules of thumb is that it is too far of there is a par 3 I cannot reach
with a 3-wood or a par 4 that I can't reach if I hit a better than average
drive and a better than average 3-wood.
I guess it would also be too far if there was a par 5 that I couldn't reach
with a better than average drive and 2 better than average 3 woods but I
haven't encountered that.
Rich
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Date: 10 Sep 2006 13:54:36
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
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On 9 Sep 2006 19:07:03 -0700, "JimAmigo" <jwaters28@gmail.com > wrote:
>Simple, play the tees that fit your game. It's not a job and you pay
>for greens fees so you might as well enjoy the game. No one has fun
>struggling at lenghts their game isn't suited for.
>
>I'm a 5 and like playing anywhere between 6,300 to 6,700.
>
The game is fun from all tees. But it is also a struggle from all
tees. If you're having fun, and are caught up with the people in
front of you, play the tees you want.
If your goal is to improve your course management, don't play the same
tees at the same course all the time.
>Playing from the wrong tees is the main reason for slow play. Does
>struggling all day mean you get your money's worth? This is one issue I
>have with my fellow golfers and makes no sense.
I disagree. The big reasons for slow play are:
1. Too many people on the course.
2. People who are not ready to hit when it's their turn to play.
3. People who move slowly.
Clueless on the green is the most irritating.
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Date: 09 Sep 2006 17:39:53
From: Larry Bud
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
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Dave Lee wrote:
> "Bear" <bearlysane@XShawX.ca> wrote in message
> news:l4l5g25gvmk5v2r5smp79s73fb2lgsgrsp@4ax.com...
> > On Sat, 09 Sep 2006 10:37:49 GMT, "Dave Lee"
> > <DaveLeeNC@ix.netcom.RemovE.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >"Larry Bud" <larrybud2002@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > >news:1157752813.458491.216940@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> > >> I normally play my home course from the 2nd longest tees, a not long
> > >> 6427, but it is rated at 72.3/135. I play to a 5 index. Not too
> > >> shabby.
> > >>
> > >> snip
>
> > >I think that it was Judy Rankin who once (several years ago) gave an
> > >interesting answer to the question "what tees should I play". The answer
> was
> > >"whatever tees it is that puts a 7i into your hands after a good drive on
> an
> > >average length par 4".
> >
> > I agree with that except what constitutes an average length par 4?
> >
> > At home I max out at around 6500 yards but when traveling to parts
> > east (Okanagan, Kootneys...) more yards are not a problem. Gotta love
> > playing at altitude great for the ego :)
>
> I think what she was saying is basically (assuming that the course has 10
> par 4's) an 'average par 4' would be roughly the length of the 5th/6th
> longest par 4 (median instead of average in my interpretation).
>
Or on a 6500 yd course, the average hole length is about 360 yards. I
suppose one could consider an average par 3 to be 180, a par 4 to be
360, and par 5 to be 540.
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Date: 10 Sep 2006 05:13:44
From: Larry Bud
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
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>
> Larry Bud wrote:
> > I normally play my home course from the 2nd longest tees, a not long
> > 6427, but it is rated at 72.3/135. I play to a 5 index. Not too
> > shabby.
> >
> > Today I joined up with a guy that wanted to play the tips, so I figured
> > what the hell. A cool 7109, 74.3/140. Frankly, that rating looks a
> > little low to me.
> >
> > Well, I've decided that's too long for me. While I didn't hit the ball
> > all that well, I hit a grand total of 4 greens (I average 9). There
> > were 4 par fours that in the wind today, I just couldn't reach. I'm
> > thinking without the wind and with good drives, I probably could reach
> > two of those. One of the par 5's is 632 uphill, It must have played to
> > at least 700. Driver, 4 wood, 4 wood put me right in front! There's a
> > 472, 435, 416 (uphill, plays to about 450), 456, and 449 yard par 4s on
> > the card.I was thanking God for the break when we reached the 205 yard
> > par 3!
> >
> > I carded an 86, my 3rd highest score all year. The amazing part is
> > that is only a 9.4 differential!
> >
> > The guy I played with could absolutely kill the ball. My good 270 yard
> > drives were 50 yards behind him. I'm guessing he probably shot about
> > 81 or 82. Not the greatest shortgame or putter in the world.
**top post fixed**
JimAmigo wrote:
> Simple, play the tees that fit your game. It's not a job and you pay
> for greens fees so you might as well enjoy the game. No one has fun
> struggling at lenghts their game isn't suited for.
Normally I do. The guy I was playing with plays the tips, so I thought
I'd give them a try at least once.
> Playing from the wrong tees is the main reason for slow play. Does
> struggling all day mean you get your money's worth? This is one issue I
> have with my fellow golfers and makes no sense.
I get my money's worth no matter what tee box. I found it interesting
to take myself out of my comfort zone, however.
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Date: 10 Sep 2006 13:58:52
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
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On 10 Sep 2006 05:13:44 -0700, "Larry Bud" <larrybud2002@yahoo.com >
wrote:
>Normally I do. The guy I was playing with plays the tips, so I thought
>I'd give them a try at least once.
The only thing is, I have played the tips at my course without
pressure (I was playing by myself in a mostly empty course) and
surprised myself on how well I hit at the scary holes. But I
haven't played them when it counts. I wonder what competition would
do to those nice drives.
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Date: 25 Sep 2006 19:06:46
From: dsc
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
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Colin Wilson wrote:
> dsc wrote:
>
> > I played Shaftsbury Glen (MB) and @6600 yards plus it was quite a
> > challenge for me. I wasn't driving well that day at all and wasn't
> > hitting my hybrids well either and it was wet that day making it play
> > quite a bit longer. For only 6600+ it has several par 4s that play
> > over 400 yards and just about every green is elevated 10+ feet and most
> > are pretty well guarded.
>
> My course is only 5300m (5850y) and there is not one hole I have trouble
> with length wise. Where I have trouble is that it's tight and the
> directional errors, especially off the tee, can cost.
>
> I could play a 6000m (6600y) course relatively easily if all the holes
> were 335m (370y) par-4s (18 x 335 = 6030)! Given that my average driving
> length is 200-220m (220-240y), an approach shot of 135m (150y) or less
> is not a daunting challenge.
>
> But courses are not like that. Like you, length becomes a real issue
> where I am playing holes in the 360m+ (400y+) range, and the driving
> zone is well protected. Then hitting anything up to a 3-wood approach
> (on super long par-4s) is when direction errors make a huge impact,
> especially on greens surrounded by bunkers.
>
> Someone who drives 40 metres or so past me has a huge advantage on holes
> of this length.
Exactly. What is so amazing is that my home course is about 6600 yards
(from the blues) and only has one long par 4 @428 yards. Our par 3's
are not short either at 200+, 185ish, 165ish, 215ish. But I guess our
par 5's are pretty average. How they get all those long par 4's into
6600 yards? :)
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Date: 26 Sep 2006 02:32:19
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
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I don't really "get" why a course would be too long. If it is long,
then it should have a harder rating and slope which should match extra
shots taken. So playing from one set of tees, I try for a GIR, and
from another set, I try for a GIR+1.
It's like when a tour changes par from 72 to 70. The course is the
same - strategies should be the same.
A course can be too narrow for me.
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Date: 26 Sep 2006 03:36:24
From: Rob Davis
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
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Howard Brazee wrote:
> I don't really "get" why a course would be too long. If it is long,
> then it should have a harder rating and slope which should match extra
> shots taken. So playing from one set of tees, I try for a GIR, and
> from another set, I try for a GIR+1.
>
> It's like when a tour changes par from 72 to 70. The course is the
> same - strategies should be the same.
>
> A course can be too narrow for me.
I don't believe the rating and slope really make up for the difference
on a long/hard course. My distance is relatively short (driver about
230), and my differentials are consistently lower on short/easy courses.
Rob
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Date: 26 Sep 2006 13:22:03
From: S McFarlane
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
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"Rob Davis" <davis.rob@verizon.net > wrote in message
news:Ye1Sg.2678$422.1106@trnddc03...
> I don't believe the rating and slope really make up for the difference on
> a long/hard course. My distance is relatively short (driver about
> 230), and my differentials are consistently lower on short/easy courses.
Just the opposite for me. I'm guessing over several rounds I'd average a
few differential points lower on the blue tees vs. the whites. The blues
aren't too long for me, and so the problems that keep my score up are just
as in play on the white tees as the blues. I suspect if I drop back to the
gold tees, the trend would reverse. The golds _are_ too long.
Scott
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Date: 26 Sep 2006 15:58:52
From: Rob Davis
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
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S McFarlane wrote:
> "Rob Davis" <davis.rob@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:Ye1Sg.2678$422.1106@trnddc03...
>
>
>>I don't believe the rating and slope really make up for the difference on
>>a long/hard course. My distance is relatively short (driver about
>>230), and my differentials are consistently lower on short/easy courses.
>
>
> Just the opposite for me. I'm guessing over several rounds I'd average a
> few differential points lower on the blue tees vs. the whites. The blues
> aren't too long for me, and so the problems that keep my score up are just
> as in play on the white tees as the blues. I suspect if I drop back to the
> gold tees, the trend would reverse. The golds _are_ too long.
>
> Scott
>
Right ... I think we're actually agreeing ... just maybe a different
"break" point. I just think that for most of us (except for really big
hitters), you reach a "max" distance where the slope/rating doesn't
exactly adjust enough to make up the difference. I'm not enough of a
handicap expert to know if this is "right" or "wrong" ... just my
experience.
My break point is around 6800 yards ... but it depends on the course.
Too many par 4s over 400 yards, or par 3s over 200 yards, and I have to
play my absolute best golf to have any chance of that differential being
near my handicap index.
Rob
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Date: 26 Sep 2006 12:03:06
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
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On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 03:36:24 GMT, Rob Davis <davis.rob@verizon.net >
wrote:
>> A course can be too narrow for me.
>
>I don't believe the rating and slope really make up for the difference
>on a long/hard course. My distance is relatively short (driver about
>230), and my differentials are consistently lower on short/easy courses.
On average, if they don't make up the difference, then they are wrong.
But you do poorer than the rating and slope with long courses. I do
poorer with narrow courses. We don't have one set of ratings and
slopes for directionally challenged players and another set for
distance challenged players.
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Date: 26 Sep 2006 00:46:28
From: Kenny Stultz
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
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In article <1157752813.458491.216940@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com >,
larrybud2002@yahoo.com says...
>
>I normally play my home course from the 2nd longest tees, a not long
>6427, but it is rated at 72.3/135. I play to a 5 index. Not too
>shabby.
>
>Today I joined up with a guy that wanted to play the tips, so I figured
>what the hell. A cool 7109, 74.3/140. Frankly, that rating looks a
>little low to me.
>
>Well, I've decided that's too long for me. While I didn't hit the ball
>all that well, I hit a grand total of 4 greens (I average 9). There
>were 4 par fours that in the wind today, I just couldn't reach. I'm
>thinking without the wind and with good drives, I probably could reach
>two of those. One of the par 5's is 632 uphill, It must have played to
>at least 700. Driver, 4 wood, 4 wood put me right in front! There's a
>472, 435, 416 (uphill, plays to about 450), 456, and 449 yard par 4s on
>the card.I was thanking God for the break when we reached the 205 yard
>par 3!
>
>I carded an 86, my 3rd highest score all year. The amazing part is
>that is only a 9.4 differential!
>
>The guy I played with could absolutely kill the ball. My good 270 yard
>drives were 50 yards behind him. I'm guessing he probably shot about
>81 or 82. Not the greatest shortgame or putter in the world.
>
For me it's not always about the length. This past weekend I played Mystic
Rock which is where the 84 Lumber Classic was held a week ago.
Without looking at the scorecard, I just stepped up to the white tees and
started hacking away.
That course chewed me up and spit me out. The yardage was only 6352 yards but
the slope was 139. If I had paid attention to that before I started I would
have opted for the senior tees and maybe I would have only half embarrassed
myself instead of totally embarrassing myself.
It wasn't really about the length - it was the difficulty.
The pro tees were 7533/78.1/151!!!!!
Kenny
--
Kenny Stultz - Troll and SPAM intolerant
"Golf is the only sport where a precise knowledge of the Rules can
earn one a reputation for bad sportsmanship"
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Date: 25 Sep 2006 16:52:15
From: dsc
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
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Carbon wrote:
> On Fri, 08 Sep 2006 15:00:13 -0700, Larry Bud wrote:
>
> > Well, I've decided that's too long for me. While I didn't hit the ball
> > all that well, I hit a grand total of 4 greens (I average 9). There
> > were 4 par fours that in the wind today, I just couldn't reach. I'm
> > thinking without the wind and with good drives, I probably could reach
> > two of those. One of the par 5's is 632 uphill, It must have played to
> > at least 700. Driver, 4 wood, 4 wood put me right in front! There's a
> > 472, 435, 416 (uphill, plays to about 450), 456, and 449 yard par 4s on
> > the card.I was thanking God for the break when we reached the 205 yard
> > par 3!
>
> I generally don't play from tees longer than 6800 or 6900 yards. At that
> distance I'll have to hit some long irons but I'll be able to reach
> everything in regulation. Longer than that the par-4's turn into par-5's.
I played Shaftsbury Glen (MB) and @6600 yards plus it was quite a
challenge for me. I wasn't driving well that day at all and wasn't
hitting my hybrids well either and it was wet that day making it play
quite a bit longer. For only 6600+ it has several par 4s that play
over 400 yards and just about every green is elevated 10+ feet and most
are pretty well guarded.
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Date: 26 Sep 2006 00:27:24
From: Colin Wilson
Subject: Re: What's too far for you?
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dsc wrote:
> I played Shaftsbury Glen (MB) and @6600 yards plus it was quite a
> challenge for me. I wasn't driving well that day at all and wasn't
> hitting my hybrids well either and it was wet that day making it play
> quite a bit longer. For only 6600+ it has several par 4s that play
> over 400 yards and just about every green is elevated 10+ feet and most
> are pretty well guarded.
My course is only 5300m (5850y) and there is not one hole I have trouble
with length wise. Where I have trouble is that it's tight and the
directional errors, especially off the tee, can cost.
I could play a 6000m (6600y) course relatively easily if all the holes
were 335m (370y) par-4s (18 x 335 = 6030)! Given that my average driving
length is 200-220m (220-240y), an approach shot of 135m (150y) or less
is not a daunting challenge.
But courses are not like that. Like you, length becomes a real issue
where I am playing holes in the 360m+ (400y+) range, and the driving
zone is well protected. Then hitting anything up to a 3-wood approach
(on super long par-4s) is when direction errors make a huge impact,
especially on greens surrounded by bunkers.
Someone who drives 40 metres or so past me has a huge advantage on holes
of this length.
--
Cheers
Colin Wilson
------------------------------------------------------------------
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Barnbougle Dunes: http://publishing.kyneton.net.au/barnbougle
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