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Date: 28 Aug 2006 00:52:34
From: PDX Hacker
Subject: What is the name of this shot
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I see lots of top pros doing this in the thick stuff around the green
-- but I am ashamed to admit that I don't even know what the name of
this shot is, much less how to play this shot myself.
When the ball is sitting in the deep rough around the green, they tend
to make a fairly big backswing (say 9 o'clock?) with fairly short
follow-through. They tend to have narrow stance, but I don't remember
whether the stance is open or square. The ball jumps maybe a foot or
two in the air, and flies about that much forward. Once it hits the
green, then it kind of rolls like a putt.
I admit that I did not read Pelz's short game bible or Short Games for
Dummies but this shot is so different from anything I know (e.g.
standard chip, pitch, bump-and-run, flop, etc). Anybody knows what this
is?
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Date: 28 Aug 2006 15:31:24
From: Brian Foster
Subject: Re: What is the name of this shot
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Same as a sand shot in most cases. Must get club under ball and pop it up.
Chances off spinning the ball are slim to none due to grass between ball and
clubface. It is the same as a sand shot but more difficult often because you
need a steep angle of attack to get through the grass. Often that is also
why follow through is abbreviated VS Sand shot.
"PDX Hacker" <joonyoung.kim@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1156751554.906425.254410@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>I see lots of top pros doing this in the thick stuff around the green
> -- but I am ashamed to admit that I don't even know what the name of
> this shot is, much less how to play this shot myself.
>
> When the ball is sitting in the deep rough around the green, they tend
> to make a fairly big backswing (say 9 o'clock?) with fairly short
> follow-through. They tend to have narrow stance, but I don't remember
> whether the stance is open or square. The ball jumps maybe a foot or
> two in the air, and flies about that much forward. Once it hits the
> green, then it kind of rolls like a putt.
>
> I admit that I did not read Pelz's short game bible or Short Games for
> Dummies but this shot is so different from anything I know (e.g.
> standard chip, pitch, bump-and-run, flop, etc). Anybody knows what this
> is?
>
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Date: 28 Aug 2006 15:02:16
From: Frank Ketchum
Subject: Re: What is the name of this shot
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"PDX Hacker" <joonyoung.kim@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1156751554.906425.254410@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> I admit that I did not read Pelz's short game bible or Short Games for
> Dummies but this shot is so different from anything I know (e.g.
> standard chip, pitch, bump-and-run, flop, etc). Anybody knows what this
> is?
>
Could be a mini-flop shot, but with the rough so thick they really have to
swing hard to get the club under the ball and the ball to pop out.
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Date: 28 Aug 2006 04:19:47
From: Larry Bud
Subject: Re: What is the name of this shot
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PDX Hacker wrote:
> I see lots of top pros doing this in the thick stuff around the green
> -- but I am ashamed to admit that I don't even know what the name of
> this shot is, much less how to play this shot myself.
>
> When the ball is sitting in the deep rough around the green, they tend
> to make a fairly big backswing (say 9 o'clock?) with fairly short
> follow-through. They tend to have narrow stance, but I don't remember
> whether the stance is open or square. The ball jumps maybe a foot or
> two in the air, and flies about that much forward. Once it hits the
> green, then it kind of rolls like a putt.
>
> I admit that I did not read Pelz's short game bible or Short Games for
> Dummies but this shot is so different from anything I know (e.g.
> standard chip, pitch, bump-and-run, flop, etc). Anybody knows what this
> is?
Maybe a "pop shot"?
They're hitting it like a sand shot, where you hit 3" or so behind the
ball.
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Date: 28 Aug 2006 16:50:49
From: uncle k
Subject: Re: What is the name of this shot
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"Larry Bud" <larrybud2002@yahoo.com > wrote in message >
> Maybe a "pop shot"?
>
> They're hitting it like a sand shot, where you hit 3" or so behind the
> ball.
Pop, or, pop-flop, dead-plop, et al. But, it's misleading to say it's like
a sand shot, and very misleading to say you hit 3" behind the ball. Yes,
you slice under the ball with an open face, and you must swing harder (vs.
expected flight distance) than normal.
Hitting 3" behind is an illusion, as the leading edge merely hits the top of
the grass thereabouts. The key is not "pushing" it out on a sand-cushion,
but "popping" it out, by getting beneath the ball. IOW, at some point, the
clubface actually makes contact with the ball, as the grass pinched between
it and the ball simply flattens (deadening), and fills the grooves
(spin-killer). If, on the way to the ball, you actually hit earth 3" early,
instead of grass, well, it's still your turn.
With this shot, you begin with a wide open face, then swing aggressively to
get there before the grass has time to change same, forcing the heel to keep
moving until impact. Having spent the "energy" of the swing to deliver the
clubface at the chosen angle = not much left for a follow through.
Unc
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Date: 28 Aug 2006 12:09:32
From: Larry Bud
Subject: Re: What is the name of this shot
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uncle k wrote:
> "Larry Bud" <larrybud2002@yahoo.com> wrote in message >
> > Maybe a "pop shot"?
> >
> > They're hitting it like a sand shot, where you hit 3" or so behind the
> > ball.
>
> Pop, or, pop-flop, dead-plop, et al. But, it's misleading to say it's like
> a sand shot, and very misleading to say you hit 3" behind the ball. Yes,
> you slice under the ball with an open face, and you must swing harder (vs.
> expected flight distance) than normal.
>
> Hitting 3" behind is an illusion, as the leading edge merely hits the top of
> the grass thereabouts. The key is not "pushing" it out on a sand-cushion,
> but "popping" it out, by getting beneath the ball. IOW, at some point, the
> clubface actually makes contact with the ball, as the grass pinched between
> it and the ball simply flattens (deadening), and fills the grooves
> (spin-killer). If, on the way to the ball, you actually hit earth 3" early,
> instead of grass, well, it's still your turn.
I've played many shots around the green just like a sand shot, hitting
it "fat" on purpose. The blade is wide open as well. It all depends
on the lie. It's no illusion. And with practice, it works relatively
well.
Whether or not that's the shot the OP was talking about, I don't know.
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Date: 29 Aug 2006 07:44:27
From: uncle k
Subject: Re: What is the name of this shot
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"Larry Bud" <larrybud2002@yahoo.com > wrote in message
>> Hitting 3" behind is an illusion, as the leading edge merely hits the top
>> of
>> the grass thereabouts. The key is not "pushing" it out on a
>> sand-cushion,
>> but "popping" it out, by getting beneath the ball. IOW, at some point,
>> the
>> clubface actually makes contact with the ball, as the grass pinched
>> between
>> it and the ball simply flattens (deadening), and fills the grooves
>> (spin-killer). If, on the way to the ball, you actually hit earth 3"
>> early,
>> instead of grass, well, it's still your turn.
>
> I've played many shots around the green just like a sand shot, hitting
> it "fat" on purpose. The blade is wide open as well. It all depends
> on the lie. It's no illusion. And with practice, it works relatively
> well.
>
> Whether or not that's the shot the OP was talking about, I don't know.
>
The shot you describe is a legitimate one, but not the shot I thought we
were talking about, which is to extract the ball softly, taking as little
earth as possible (hopefully none), before impact, or after. Mowing the
thick grass, if you will, rather than removing the sod, i.e. a shallower
angle of attack. It's not unlike a straight-up, dropped-cat flop, over a
trap to a short pin... just toned down a little, since it only needs to fly
a few feet.
;-{
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Date: 29 Aug 2006 17:25:33
From: THE Sandman
Subject: Re: What is the name of this shot
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Intentional chunk.
"PDX Hacker" <joonyoung.kim@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1156751554.906425.254410@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>I see lots of top pros doing this in the thick stuff around the green
> -- but I am ashamed to admit that I don't even know what the name of
> this shot is, much less how to play this shot myself.
>
> When the ball is sitting in the deep rough around the green, they tend
> to make a fairly big backswing (say 9 o'clock?) with fairly short
> follow-through. They tend to have narrow stance, but I don't remember
> whether the stance is open or square. The ball jumps maybe a foot or
> two in the air, and flies about that much forward. Once it hits the
> green, then it kind of rolls like a putt.
>
> I admit that I did not read Pelz's short game bible or Short Games for
> Dummies but this shot is so different from anything I know (e.g.
> standard chip, pitch, bump-and-run, flop, etc). Anybody knows what this
> is?
>
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Date: 29 Aug 2006 07:03:03
From: p4o2
Subject: Re: What is the name of this shot
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PDX Hacker wrote:
> I see lots of top pros doing this in the thick stuff around the green
> -- but I am ashamed to admit that I don't even know what the name of
> this shot is, much less how to play this shot myself.
>
> When the ball is sitting in the deep rough around the green, they tend
> to make a fairly big backswing (say 9 o'clock?) with fairly short
> follow-through. They tend to have narrow stance, but I don't remember
> whether the stance is open or square. The ball jumps maybe a foot or
> two in the air, and flies about that much forward. Once it hits the
> green, then it kind of rolls like a putt.
>
> I admit that I did not read Pelz's short game bible or Short Games for
> Dummies but this shot is so different from anything I know (e.g.
> standard chip, pitch, bump-and-run, flop, etc). Anybody knows what this
> is?
The "with fairly short follow-through" part of your shot is not what I
think of as a flop shot ?
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Date: 29 Aug 2006 12:03:38
From: annika1980
Subject: Re: What is the name of this shot
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PDX Hacker wrote:
> Anybody knows what this is?
That's offically known as "The Aoki Chop."
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Date: 30 Aug 2006 12:18:52
From: linga0
Subject: Re: What is the name of this shot
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PDX Hacker wrote:
> I see lots of top pros doing this in the thick stuff around the green
> -- but I am ashamed to admit that I don't even know what the name of
> this shot is, much less how to play this shot myself.
>
> When the ball is sitting in the deep rough around the green, they tend
> to make a fairly big backswing (say 9 o'clock?) with fairly short
> follow-through. They tend to have narrow stance, but I don't remember
> whether the stance is open or square. The ball jumps maybe a foot or
> two in the air, and flies about that much forward. Once it hits the
> green, then it kind of rolls like a putt.
>
> I admit that I did not read Pelz's short game bible or Short Games for
> Dummies but this shot is so different from anything I know (e.g.
> standard chip, pitch, bump-and-run, flop, etc). Anybody knows what this
> is?
Yes, A Gouge Shot
The shot you are asking about is somewhat old school. You will find
that it was used more during the 40's, 50's and 60's. With the
advent of better greens care (ie: Lawnmowers) and being able to cut
greens to less than 6/16 inches you found that golf balls would roll
out more. When the sand wedge was developed (1930's) the flop shot
was not a shot to be tried. But a gouge shot could be done with an
understanding that the ball would travel up and over any rough or
fringe before landing with less than a 30% roll-out. Now with better
greens the roll-out tends to be more in the range of 60%
(fast/slow/uphill/downhill greens) give or that.
The reason why the shot has a short or abbreviated follow-though is
simple. The shot is executed by having an open and narrowed stance. The
ball is played off of the rear foot, but not beyond the foot (that
would be a chop-runner with less height and a longer roll-out). Set the
club in a very wide open position. The club is swung back to about 9
o'clock (or less) and delivered on an inside/out path (or just swing
on your ball target line). The club should impact to the rear of the
ball (but do not try to "get under ball" or "use the grass as you
would use the sand" due to the ball placement and angle of attack,
the club will descend and cut into (not though) the grass. If you stab
or chop at the ball you will have the chop-runner, but if you allow the
club to swing you will notice that your club energy will be absorbed by
the grass, hence the short follow-though.
The club face will (you have turned it into a 65 degree or higher face)
pop the ball up with very little spin (but depending on the club face
angle you can impart more or less).
Your weight is played onto your rear foot for the complete shot,
transferring your weight will change the loft angle. You will have to
practice this feel shot as you would any other up and down shot.
So if you're faced with an uphill or downhill lie, with a foot or two
of fringe, with very little green to work with and you want to place
the ball within kick in range!!!! Try an old school Gouge shot, you
might learn to love it.
Linga0
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