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Main
Date: 18 Oct 2006 03:38:52
From:
Subject: "True Gravity"
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Who can explain "True Gravity"?
I know the top pros are well aware of what I am about to reveal in this
page, the difference is they couldn't put it so simply. You are about
to learn what Shivas Irons (Golf in the Kingdom) called 'True
Gravity' and Bobby Jones explained as 5 - 10 mph faster than the
natural force of gravity.
True gravity is, in layman's terms, the force (speed at impact),
between two masses (club head and ball), the distance it travels (the
swing), and most importantly what 'effects' are added (how any
extra energy is applied to the golf club). True gravity or optimum
gravitational force is applied when these 'effects' are added
proficiently.
If you have ever been at a professional tournament you will have
noticed that most of the players have a silky almost laughable
smoothness in their swings. In fact, it's only when you look at the
resulting ball flight that you realise they do something we don't. Or
to put it another way, we do something they don't.
Thanks for listening and I look forward to any replies.
Sandy MacDuff
http://www.online-golf-lesson-and-more.com
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Date: 18 Oct 2006 10:48:58
From: gpsman
Subject: Re: "True Gravity"
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Larry Bud wrote:
> > In fact, it's only when you look at the
> > resulting ball flight that you realise they do something we don't. Or
> > to put it another way, we do something they don't.
>
> Yeah, they have perfect timing from excellent mechanics and hitting
> 1000 balls a day.
>
> It certainly does NOT have anything to do with any junk science called
> "true gravity"
It ain't junk, it's just misleadingly described.
The wisdom of Shivas Irons is mostly too broad and deep for the average
golfer but they should be able to take something with them that will
improve their game. The "inner game" can have great effect on the
outer.
I highly recommend "Golf in the Kingdom" and "The Kingdom of Shivas
Irons". Good stories for any golfer.
-----
- gpsman
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Date: 18 Oct 2006 10:33:02
From:
Subject: Re: "True Gravity"
|
pmchugh@online.de wrote:
> Who can explain "True Gravity"?
Not you, for sure.
I've seldom read so much confusion over perfectly simple physical
interactions.
If you can start to understand the difference between speed [sic] and
force, you'll immediately see why the rest of what you've written is
complete nonsense. As a first clue: you can't add quantities that
aren't dimensionally compatible in the way you describe. This isn't a
matter of opinion: no matter how passionately you feel about your point
of view, you're simply and demonstrably wrong until you sort that bit
out.
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Date: 18 Oct 2006 17:40:40
From: Joe
Subject: Re: "True Gravity"
|
sugnaboris@gmail.com wrote:
> pmchugh@online.de wrote:
>
>>Who can explain "True Gravity"?
>
>
> Not you, for sure.
>
> I've seldom read so much confusion over perfectly simple physical
> interactions.
>
> If you can start to understand the difference between speed [sic] and
> force, you'll immediately see why the rest of what you've written is
> complete nonsense. As a first clue: you can't add quantities that
> aren't dimensionally compatible in the way you describe. This isn't a
> matter of opinion: no matter how passionately you feel about your point
> of view, you're simply and demonstrably wrong until you sort that bit
> out.
>
LOL
Well said!
Joe
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Date: 18 Oct 2006 04:17:48
From: Larry Bud
Subject: Re: "True Gravity"
|
> In fact, it's only when you look at the
> resulting ball flight that you realise they do something we don't. Or
> to put it another way, we do something they don't.
Yeah, they have perfect timing from excellent mechanics and hitting
1000 balls a day.
It certainly does NOT have anything to do with any junk science called
"true gravity"
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Date: 18 Oct 2006 15:24:42
From: Roger Thaat
Subject: Re: "True Gravity"
|
Larry Bud wrote:
>>In fact, it's only when you look at the
>>resulting ball flight that you realise they do something we don't. Or
>>to put it another way, we do something they don't.
>
>
> Yeah, they have perfect timing from excellent mechanics and hitting
> 1000 balls a day.
>
> It certainly does NOT have anything to do with any junk science called
> "true gravity"
>
The difference in pro vs. amateur golf swings and the resulting contact
and ball flight is the same as the difference between pro and amateur
hockey players, tennis or squash players, musicians, painters,
comedians, actors and just about anything else you'd care to mention.
It's the product of thousands of hours of precise, coached practice,
beginning at a young age. The only way to obtain such a swing is
through extensive training. Period.
A book, lesson, tape or demonstration can move you from an amateur to a
slightly better amateur, if you practice, but nothing is gonna give you
a pro swing and result other than starting over when you're 12.
--
Roger Thaat
You may remember me. I used to be called Howard U. Dewing, but only one
guy ever answered the question.
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Date: 19 Oct 2006 01:44:34
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: "True Gravity"
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On Wed, 18 2006 15:24:42 GMT, Roger Thaat <Nevermind@server.it >
wrote:
>It's the product of thousands of hours of precise, coached practice,
>beginning at a young age. The only way to obtain such a swing is
>through extensive training. Period.
Hands on my ears, saying na, na, na, na, I can't hear you.
Now tell me the *real* secret.
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Date: 18 Oct 2006 11:45:43
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: "True Gravity"
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On 18 2006 04:17:48 -0700, "Larry Bud" <larrybud2002@yahoo.com >
wrote:
>Yeah, they have perfect timing from excellent mechanics and hitting
>1000 balls a day.
>
>It certainly does NOT have anything to do with any junk science called
>"true gravity"
The gravity where I play must be false.
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Date: 18 Oct 2006 18:54:07
From: pete z
Subject: Re: "True Gravity"
|
Roger Thaat wrote:
> Larry Bud wrote:
> >>In fact, it's only when you look at the
> >>resulting ball flight that you realise they do something we don't. Or
> >>to put it another way, we do something they don't.
> >
> >
> > Yeah, they have perfect timing from excellent mechanics and hitting
> > 1000 balls a day.
> >
> > It certainly does NOT have anything to do with any junk science called
> > "true gravity"
> >
>
> The difference in pro vs. amateur golf swings and the resulting contact
> and ball flight is the same as the difference between pro and amateur
> hockey players, tennis or squash players, musicians, painters,
> comedians, actors and just about anything else you'd care to mention.
>
> It's the product of thousands of hours of precise, coached practice,
> beginning at a young age. The only way to obtain such a swing is
> through extensive training. Period.
>
> A book, lesson, tape or demonstration can move you from an amateur to a
> slightly better amateur, if you practice, but nothing is gonna give you
> a pro swing and result other than starting over when you're 12.
>
> --
> Roger Thaat
> You may remember me. I used to be called Howard U. Dewing, but only one
> guy ever answered the question.
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Date: 18 Oct 2006 15:49:19
From: annika1980
Subject: Re: "True Gravity"
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pmchugh@online.de wrote:
> Who can explain "True Gravity"?
>
> I know the top pros are well aware of what I am about to reveal in this
> page, the difference is they couldn't put it so simply. You are about
> to learn what Shivas Irons (Golf in the Kingdom) called 'True
> Gravity' and Bobby Jones explained as 5 - 10 mph faster than the
> natural force of gravity.
When did Bobby say that?
It has been written that they timed the swing of Bobby Jones and his
hands dropped at the same rate as "true gravity" would dictate if he
simply let them fall. Don't know if this is exactly true or not, but
it is a nice lesson on tempo and not rushing your downswing. In other
words, don't worry about rushing your hands down to the ball....
they'll get there.
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Date: 18 Oct 2006 14:49:05
From:
Subject: Re: "True Gravity"
|
Larry Bud wrote:
> > (I'm assuming that the final F is short for Fairway, and isn't a typo,
> > as in BYOBB.)
>
> Having a BBBQ?
... and there was me thinking the allusion might be too cryptic.
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Date: 18 Oct 2006 13:48:39
From: Fairway
Subject: Re: "True Gravity"
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sugnaboris@gmail.com wrote:
> Fairway wrote:
> > Well, let=B4s try force times distance, F * s. Choose the last 20 inches
> > before contact and apply the force over that distance. F*s then equals
> > the increase in kinetic energy. F
> Not sure what you're getting at, here. You've given an example of
> dimensionally compatible quantities that can be added; the OP described
> force as speed, quoted an example of some MPH faster than the natural
> force of gravity. There's no surprise that newton-metres are also known
> as joules.
When the coefficient of friction is zero force times distance equals
0=2E5 times mass times velocity squared which is kinetic energy. This is
a vital point in all collisions. So, if you apply a force over the last
20 inches before the hit it will be more energetic. Many of my friends,
all amateurs except one, have the ability to this and they will drive
the ball 250-300 yards. But distance alone won=B4t make you a winner in
golf. According to Pelz the short game will. F
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Date: 18 Oct 2006 12:26:49
From: Larry Bud
Subject: Re: "True Gravity"
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> (I'm assuming that the final F is short for Fairway, and isn't a typo,
> as in BYOBB.)
Having a BBBQ?
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Date: 18 Oct 2006 11:31:48
From:
Subject: Re: "True Gravity"
|
sugnabo...@gmail.com wrote:
> There's no surprise that newton-metres are also known
> as joules.
(Caveat: they're dimensionally equivalent, but not generally equivalent
in all cases.)
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Date: 18 Oct 2006 11:28:48
From:
Subject: Re: "True Gravity"
|
Fairway wrote:
> sugnaboris@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >> If you can start to understand the difference between speed [sic] and
> > force, you'll immediately see why the rest of what you've written is
> > complete nonsense. As a first clue: you can't add quantities that
> > aren't dimensionally compatible in the way you describe. This isn't a
> > matter of opinion: no matter how passionately you feel about your point
> > of view, you're simply and demonstrably wrong until you sort that bit
> > out.
>
> Well, let=B4s try force times distance, F * s. Choose the last 20 inches
> before contact and apply the force over that distance. F*s then equals
> the increase in kinetic energy. F
(I'm assuming that the final F is short for Fairway, and isn't a typo,
as in BYOBB.)
Not sure what you're getting at, here. You've given an example of
dimensionally compatible quantities that can be added; the OP described
force as speed, quoted an example of some MPH faster than the natural
force of gravity. There's no surprise that newton-metres are also known
as joules.
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Date: 18 Oct 2006 11:06:25
From: Fairway
Subject: Re: "True Gravity"
|
sugnaboris@gmail.com wrote:
>> If you can start to understand the difference between speed [sic] and
> force, you'll immediately see why the rest of what you've written is
> complete nonsense. As a first clue: you can't add quantities that
> aren't dimensionally compatible in the way you describe. This isn't a
> matter of opinion: no matter how passionately you feel about your point
> of view, you're simply and demonstrably wrong until you sort that bit
> out.
Well, let=B4s try force times distance, F * s. Choose the last 20 inches
before contact and apply the force over that distance. F*s then equals
the increase in kinetic energy. F
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Date: 19 Oct 2006 01:40:49
From: Fairway
Subject: Re: "True Gravity"
|
annika1980 wrote:
>> It has been written that they timed the swing of Bobby Jones and his
> hands dropped at the same rate as "true gravity" would dictate if he
> simply let them fall. Don't know if this is exactly true or not, but
> it is a nice lesson on tempo and not rushing your downswing.
It=B4s not true. His hands accelerated a bit more than dictated by
gravity. Incidentally, there is no such thing as a "true gravity". And
since acceleration is proportional to force, Bobby must have applied
some force to achieve this extra acceleration. Don=B4t know if he rushed
it - but he sure did use some force. F
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Date: 06 Nov 2006 14:18:05
From:
Subject: Re: "True Gravity"
|
Read the secret on:
My page.
S.MacD.
Howard Brazee wrote:
> On Wed, 18 2006 15:24:42 GMT, Roger Thaat <Nevermind@server.it>
> wrote:
>
> >It's the product of thousands of hours of precise, coached practice,
> >beginning at a young age. The only way to obtain such a swing is
> >through extensive training. Period.
>
> Hands on my ears, saying na, na, na, na, I can't hear you.
>
> Now tell me the *real* secret.
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Date: 06 Nov 2006 14:15:47
From:
Subject: Re: "True Gravity"
|
Could be Howard.
Do what I do and bring your own gravity with you.
Cheers
S.MacD.
Howard Brazee wrote:
> On 18 2006 04:17:48 -0700, "Larry Bud" <larrybud2002@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Yeah, they have perfect timing from excellent mechanics and hitting
> >1000 balls a day.
> >
> >It certainly does NOT have anything to do with any junk science called
> >"true gravity"
>
> The gravity where I play must be false.
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Date: 06 Nov 2006 14:12:43
From:
Subject: Re: "True Gravity"
|
I'm a golf coach not Einstein.
I know that the closest force to the golf swing is centrifugal. I am
very aware that absolute beginners can display unbelievable natural
swings with a late hit to die for but the minute you explain the late
hit to them is the minute you make the first teaching mistake.
awrabest
S.MacD.
pete z wrote:
> pmchugh@online.de wrote:
> > Who can explain "True Gravity"?
> >
> > I know the top pros are well aware of what I am about to reveal in this
> > page, the difference is they couldn't put it so simply. You are about
> > to learn what Shivas Irons (Golf in the Kingdom) called 'True
> > Gravity' and Bobby Jones explained as 5 - 10 mph faster than the
> > natural force of gravity.
> >
> > True gravity is, in layman's terms, the force (speed at impact),
> > between two masses (club head and ball), the distance it travels (the
> > swing), and most importantly what 'effects' are added (how any
> > extra energy is applied to the golf club). True gravity or optimum
> > gravitational force is applied when these 'effects' are added
> > proficiently.
> >
> > If you have ever been at a professional tournament you will have
> > noticed that most of the players have a silky almost laughable
> > smoothness in their swings. In fact, it's only when you look at the
> > resulting ball flight that you realise they do something we don't. Or
> > to put it another way, we do something they don't.
> >
> > Thanks for listening and I look forward to any replies.
> >
> > Sandy MacDuff
> >
> > http://www.online-golf-lesson-and-more.com
>
> Force = Speed? You must have flunked physics. The pros don't do
> something different.
> They have something most amateurs don't. It's called talent. Which is
> why guys like Larry
> Nelson can start playing after the age of 21, and still win a US Open.
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Date: 06 Nov 2006 19:13:45
From: Martin Levac
Subject: Re: "True Gravity"
|
There is no such thing as centrifugal force. There is centrifugal tendency,
centrifugal velocity, etc but no centrifugal force. Sorry. Perhaps you mean
centripetal force.
Centripetal, towards the center.
The club wants to go straight, you prevent that by holding it with your
hands as you swing it around yourself:
You apply centripetal force.
<pmchugh@online.de > wrote in message
news:1162851163.240605.71930@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> I'm a golf coach not Einstein.
>
> I know that the closest force to the golf swing is centrifugal. I am
> very aware that absolute beginners can display unbelievable natural
> swings with a late hit to die for but the minute you explain the late
> hit to them is the minute you make the first teaching mistake.
>
> awrabest
>
> S.MacD.
>
> pete z wrote:
>> pmchugh@online.de wrote:
>> > Who can explain "True Gravity"?
>> >
>> > I know the top pros are well aware of what I am about to reveal in this
>> > page, the difference is they couldn't put it so simply. You are about
>> > to learn what Shivas Irons (Golf in the Kingdom) called 'True
>> > Gravity' and Bobby Jones explained as 5 - 10 mph faster than the
>> > natural force of gravity.
>> >
>> > True gravity is, in layman's terms, the force (speed at impact),
>> > between two masses (club head and ball), the distance it travels (the
>> > swing), and most importantly what 'effects' are added (how any
>> > extra energy is applied to the golf club). True gravity or optimum
>> > gravitational force is applied when these 'effects' are added
>> > proficiently.
>> >
>> > If you have ever been at a professional tournament you will have
>> > noticed that most of the players have a silky almost laughable
>> > smoothness in their swings. In fact, it's only when you look at the
>> > resulting ball flight that you realise they do something we don't. Or
>> > to put it another way, we do something they don't.
>> >
>> > Thanks for listening and I look forward to any replies.
>> >
>> > Sandy MacDuff
>> >
>> > http://www.online-golf-lesson-and-more.com
>>
>> Force = Speed? You must have flunked physics. The pros don't do
>> something different.
>> They have something most amateurs don't. It's called talent. Which is
>> why guys like Larry
>> Nelson can start playing after the age of 21, and still win a US Open.
>
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Date: 06 Nov 2006 18:03:24
From: FredK
Subject: Re: "True Gravity"
|
I don't play a professor on TV, but I believe that "centrifugal" and
"centripetal" forces are directed outward from the center of rotation. So
I'm not sure why you use that term.
I believe that you are trying to describe a very real thing, but are kind-of
making up the physics to make it sound scientific - you will lose that
discussion to someone who actually knows physics... so let me talk loose
and fast as well...
My opinion is that the effect that you describe is the ability for a highly
skilled and talented individual to correctly (or "effortlessly") control 4+
pivot points so that the maximum controlled amount of speed is applied to
the head of the club at the right time. The body turns, the arms and
shoulders move, the elbows move, and the wrists move. Each of these moving
parts are connected - so a rythmic "smooth" set of motions create the timing
needed to smoothly accellerate the clubhead. Some of the pivot points are
hard to control, and add little to club speed - like the left elbow. The
hinge of the wrist is what appears to be the one single thing (again - apart
from skill and talent) that is different between a pro and the rest of us.
A pro's swing features a wrist cock that is unwound very late in the
downswing - as opposed to most duffers who have very little late wrist
unloading. There are pro's with long backswings, short backswings,
inside-out moves, one-plane, two-plane, leg driven, arm driven... whatever -
but a slow motion view of their downswing will always show the wrists cocked
until very late in the downswing.
It is easier to get the clubhead moving when the radius of the swing is
long - physics and the large muscles, but you get more accelleration with a
shorter radius (and the shortest radius is the club itself attached to the
hands). But the reason most of us duffers don't have that late wrist cock
unload - is because it requires skill, practice and timing. Uncocking your
wrists early makes it easier to "guide" the club for a longer time - and
IMHO for most people it "feels" more easily controlled and rythmic (which in
fact it probably *isn't*) - but you give up clubhead speed. The wrist
cock/unload is the "whip" that provides your "better than gravity" head
speed.
Of course, for most of us the old advice - "Every club is designed for a
specific distance, swing smoothly and let the club do the work" still
remains pretty good.
<pmchugh@online.de > wrote in message
news:1162851163.240605.71930@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> I'm a golf coach not Einstein.
>
> I know that the closest force to the golf swing is centrifugal. I am
> very aware that absolute beginners can display unbelievable natural
> swings with a late hit to die for but the minute you explain the late
> hit to them is the minute you make the first teaching mistake.
>
> awrabest
>
> S.MacD.
>
> pete z wrote:
> > pmchugh@online.de wrote:
> > > Who can explain "True Gravity"?
> > >
> > > I know the top pros are well aware of what I am about to reveal in
this
> > > page, the difference is they couldn't put it so simply. You are about
> > > to learn what Shivas Irons (Golf in the Kingdom) called 'True
> > > Gravity' and Bobby Jones explained as 5 - 10 mph faster than the
> > > natural force of gravity.
> > >
> > > True gravity is, in layman's terms, the force (speed at impact),
> > > between two masses (club head and ball), the distance it travels (the
> > > swing), and most importantly what 'effects' are added (how any
> > > extra energy is applied to the golf club). True gravity or optimum
> > > gravitational force is applied when these 'effects' are added
> > > proficiently.
> > >
> > > If you have ever been at a professional tournament you will have
> > > noticed that most of the players have a silky almost laughable
> > > smoothness in their swings. In fact, it's only when you look at the
> > > resulting ball flight that you realise they do something we don't. Or
> > > to put it another way, we do something they don't.
> > >
> > > Thanks for listening and I look forward to any replies.
> > >
> > > Sandy MacDuff
> > >
> > > http://www.online-golf-lesson-and-more.com
> >
> > Force = Speed? You must have flunked physics. The pros don't do
> > something different.
> > They have something most amateurs don't. It's called talent. Which is
> > why guys like Larry
> > Nelson can start playing after the age of 21, and still win a US Open.
>
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Date: 06 Nov 2006 14:01:02
From:
Subject: Re: "True Gravity"
|
Annika,
as I said earlier, Jones added 5-10 mph to this gravity and I am
getting better at administering this myself. By the way I've never hit
the ball so well.
True gravity, centrifugal force or swing secrets. Someone said earlier
that I was complicating it. Well that's not my aim. Golf is a gross
motor skill that should be learned without too many words and that's
why kids swing so smoothly because they still remember just how they
learned G.M.S., by example.
awrabest
MacDuff
Fairway wrote:
> annika1980 wrote:
> >> It has been written that they timed the swing of Bobby Jones and his
> > hands dropped at the same rate as "true gravity" would dictate if he
> > simply let them fall. Don't know if this is exactly true or not, but
> > it is a nice lesson on tempo and not rushing your downswing.
> It=B4s not true. His hands accelerated a bit more than dictated by
> gravity. Incidentally, there is no such thing as a "true gravity". And
> since acceleration is proportional to force, Bobby must have applied
> some force to achieve this extra acceleration. Don=B4t know if he rushed
> it - but he sure did use some force. F
|
| |
Date: 06 Nov 2006 13:47:15
From:
Subject: Re: "True Gravity"
|
Sorry Roger,
I must disagree with you, I've been a single figure handicapper most
of my life and during my best years, was a 3-4 handicap until recently.
I'm now 49 and changed the way I play golf 2 years ago. This amounted
to my best ever round of golf last week with a 5 under 67.
I teach most of the time, play rarely and hit at most 50 balls a weeks,
most of them during my lessons.
This 67 was my best score but I have also shot 69 since the change (not
the change of life but change of beliefs).
I would definately accomplish something special if I could afford to
hit a few hundred balls a week.
I am however doing good things with my eleven year old daughter who has
a respectable 12 handicap.
She hits about 200 balls a week.
awrabest
MacDuff
Roger Thaat wrote:
> Larry Bud wrote:
> >>In fact, it's only when you look at the
> >>resulting ball flight that you realise they do something we don't. Or
> >>to put it another way, we do something they don't.
> >
> >
> > Yeah, they have perfect timing from excellent mechanics and hitting
> > 1000 balls a day.
> >
> > It certainly does NOT have anything to do with any junk science called
> > "true gravity"
> >
>
> The difference in pro vs. amateur golf swings and the resulting contact
> and ball flight is the same as the difference between pro and amateur
> hockey players, tennis or squash players, musicians, painters,
> comedians, actors and just about anything else you'd care to mention.
>
> It's the product of thousands of hours of precise, coached practice,
> beginning at a young age. The only way to obtain such a swing is
> through extensive training. Period.
>
> A book, lesson, tape or demonstration can move you from an amateur to a
> slightly better amateur, if you practice, but nothing is gonna give you
> a pro swing and result other than starting over when you're 12.
>
> --
> Roger Thaat
> You may remember me. I used to be called Howard U. Dewing, but only one
> guy ever answered the question.
|
| |
Date: 06 Nov 2006 13:24:37
From:
Subject: Re: "True Gravity"
|
Thanks for your reply and I for one do enjoy constructive critism.
> If you can start to understand the difference between speed [sic] and
> force, you'll immediately see why the rest of what you've written is
> complete nonsense.
I will say in my defense that a golf club no matter how dynamic it is,
it's not going to have much speed at impact without the force that I
administer. The truth of the matter is, this is where the secret lies
in the eqution.
sugnaboris@gmail.com wrote:
> pmchugh@online.de wrote:
> > Who can explain "True Gravity"?
>
> Not you, for sure.
>
> I've seldom read so much confusion over perfectly simple physical
> interactions.
>
> If you can start to understand the difference between speed [sic] and
> force, you'll immediately see why the rest of what you've written is
> complete nonsense. As a first clue: you can't add quantities that
> aren't dimensionally compatible in the way you describe. This isn't a
> matter of opinion: no matter how passionately you feel about your point
> of view, you're simply and demonstrably wrong until you sort that bit
> out.
|
| | |
Date: 06 Nov 2006 14:47:44
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: "True Gravity"
|
On 6 Nov 2006 13:24:37 -0800, pmchugh@online.de wrote:
>I will say in my defense that a golf club no matter how dynamic it is,
>it's not going to have much speed at impact without the force that I
>administer. The truth of the matter is, this is where the secret lies
>in the eqution.
For a given effective mass, you increase one, you will increase the
other. But which image works best in creating a more effective
swing?
|
| |
Date: 07 Nov 2006 15:42:45
From:
Subject: Re: "True Gravity"
|
Centripetal or centrifugal, who cares. It's not me who's getting into
the pure physics of a swing it's you lot.
I'm just saying that I've got a great little drill that lets you feel
the 'late hit' and it happens at the start of the downswing (the
transition from back to down swing to be precise).
And...You don't have to hit 1000 balls a day to achieve it.
Stick that in your pipe and smoke it slowly.
Please come back with feedback that doesn't contain science...please!
Awrabest
S.MacD.
FredK wrote:
> I don't play a professor on TV, but I believe that "centrifugal" and
> "centripetal" forces are directed outward from the center of rotation. So
> I'm not sure why you use that term.
>
> I believe that you are trying to describe a very real thing, but are kind-of
> making up the physics to make it sound scientific - you will lose that
> discussion to someone who actually knows physics... so let me talk loose
> and fast as well...
>
> My opinion is that the effect that you describe is the ability for a highly
> skilled and talented individual to correctly (or "effortlessly") control 4+
> pivot points so that the maximum controlled amount of speed is applied to
> the head of the club at the right time. The body turns, the arms and
> shoulders move, the elbows move, and the wrists move. Each of these moving
> parts are connected - so a rythmic "smooth" set of motions create the timing
> needed to smoothly accellerate the clubhead. Some of the pivot points are
> hard to control, and add little to club speed - like the left elbow. The
> hinge of the wrist is what appears to be the one single thing (again - apart
> from skill and talent) that is different between a pro and the rest of us.
> A pro's swing features a wrist cock that is unwound very late in the
> downswing - as opposed to most duffers who have very little late wrist
> unloading. There are pro's with long backswings, short backswings,
> inside-out moves, one-plane, two-plane, leg driven, arm driven... whatever -
> but a slow motion view of their downswing will always show the wrists cocked
> until very late in the downswing.
>
> It is easier to get the clubhead moving when the radius of the swing is
> long - physics and the large muscles, but you get more accelleration with a
> shorter radius (and the shortest radius is the club itself attached to the
> hands). But the reason most of us duffers don't have that late wrist cock
> unload - is because it requires skill, practice and timing. Uncocking your
> wrists early makes it easier to "guide" the club for a longer time - and
> IMHO for most people it "feels" more easily controlled and rythmic (which in
> fact it probably *isn't*) - but you give up clubhead speed. The wrist
> cock/unload is the "whip" that provides your "better than gravity" head
> speed.
>
> Of course, for most of us the old advice - "Every club is designed for a
> specific distance, swing smoothly and let the club do the work" still
> remains pretty good.
>
>
>
> <pmchugh@online.de> wrote in message
> news:1162851163.240605.71930@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > I'm a golf coach not Einstein.
> >
> > I know that the closest force to the golf swing is centrifugal. I am
> > very aware that absolute beginners can display unbelievable natural
> > swings with a late hit to die for but the minute you explain the late
> > hit to them is the minute you make the first teaching mistake.
> >
> > awrabest
> >
> > S.MacD.
> >
> > pete z wrote:
> > > pmchugh@online.de wrote:
> > > > Who can explain "True Gravity"?
> > > >
> > > > I know the top pros are well aware of what I am about to reveal in
> this
> > > > page, the difference is they couldn't put it so simply. You are about
> > > > to learn what Shivas Irons (Golf in the Kingdom) called 'True
> > > > Gravity' and Bobby Jones explained as 5 - 10 mph faster than the
> > > > natural force of gravity.
> > > >
> > > > True gravity is, in layman's terms, the force (speed at impact),
> > > > between two masses (club head and ball), the distance it travels (the
> > > > swing), and most importantly what 'effects' are added (how any
> > > > extra energy is applied to the golf club). True gravity or optimum
> > > > gravitational force is applied when these 'effects' are added
> > > > proficiently.
> > > >
> > > > If you have ever been at a professional tournament you will have
> > > > noticed that most of the players have a silky almost laughable
> > > > smoothness in their swings. In fact, it's only when you look at the
> > > > resulting ball flight that you realise they do something we don't. Or
> > > > to put it another way, we do something they don't.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for listening and I look forward to any replies.
> > > >
> > > > Sandy MacDuff
> > > >
> > > > http://www.online-golf-lesson-and-more.com
> > >
> > > Force = Speed? You must have flunked physics. The pros don't do
> > > something different.
> > > They have something most amateurs don't. It's called talent. Which is
> > > why guys like Larry
> > > Nelson can start playing after the age of 21, and still win a US Open.
> >
|
| | |
Date: 07 Nov 2006 22:25:35
From: Mike Dalecki
Subject: Re: "True Gravity"
|
pmchugh@online.de wrote:
> Centripetal or centrifugal, who cares. It's not me who's getting into
> the pure physics of a swing it's you lot.
>
> I'm just saying that I've got a great little drill that lets you feel
> the 'late hit' and it happens at the start of the downswing (the
> transition from back to down swing to be precise).
>
> And...You don't have to hit 1000 balls a day to achieve it.
>
> Stick that in your pipe and smoke it slowly.
>
> Please come back with feedback that doesn't contain science...please!
>
> Awrabest
>
> S.MacD.
>
That sounds terrific! Why don't you just post that great little drill
so we can see what it's all about?
Go ahead--I promise we'll give it careful consideration and you coherent
feedback.
Mike
|
| | |
Date: 08 Nov 2006 08:06:43
From: FredK
Subject: Re: "True Gravity"
|
<pmchugh@online.de > wrote in message
news:1162942965.526966.53760@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Centripetal or centrifugal, who cares. It's not me who's getting into
> the pure physics of a swing it's you lot.
>
> I'm just saying that I've got a great little drill that lets you feel
> the 'late hit' and it happens at the start of the downswing (the
> transition from back to down swing to be precise).
>
> And...You don't have to hit 1000 balls a day to achieve it.
>
> Stick that in your pipe and smoke it slowly.
>
> Please come back with feedback that doesn't contain science...please!
>
> Awrabest
>
> S.MacD.
>
Wow. Thanks for that concise feedback. I get the feeling that you are not
interested in discussing your theory of gravity (or rather, your coined
terminology for some type of swing improvement) - but get the sense instead
that you are shilling for your services. This is a discussion group (well,
in theory it is) as opposed to an infomercial training ground.
Please come back with feedback that includes logic - or at least some
sembelence of a description of what you are trying to illustrate and why you
think it works.
Thanks.
|
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Date: 08 Nov 2006 05:07:07
From: Fairway
Subject: Re: "True Gravity"
|
pmchugh@online.de wrote:
> Read the secret on:
>
> My page.
>
> S.MacD.
>
Sorry pal. No secrets on your page. This is all I got:
"A free beginner golf lesson...
.=2E..The four finger grip!
Coming very soon! The 'free beginner golf lesson'.
You'll be learning the four finger grip drill.
Return to 'homepage' from 'free beginner golf lesson'
Return to 'beginner golf lesson' from 'free beginner golf lesson'"
So, I=B4m waiting. F
|
| |
Date: 08 Nov 2006 02:32:53
From:
Subject: Re: "True Gravity"
|
The four finger grip drill. Now that's the beginner golf lesson I wish
I'd been given all those years ago. It's not just a lesson; it's like
having your very own trainer by your side every time you want to find
the perfect swing.
The first time I saw this drill, which I have found to be an ideal
beginner golf lesson, was on a coaching video by golf guru, Greg
McHatton. He was just showing everyone how dynamic the golf club is
without exerting too much force from the hands or arms.
What I didn't realise at the time was how easy it was to actually hit a
dynamic shot with this grip. I remember watching the video and Greg
explaining that it was difficult to influence the club's gravity and
swing path with this grip. As this was a video, I was only able to see
the swing he made and not what happened to the ball. All he said
regarding this was, "It's quite surprising how far and straight that
ball has actually flown."
I thought no more about this beginner golf lesson because Greg had
only dropped it in to let his audience know that it helped people
experience the feeling in the hands for the much-desired 'late hit'.
('Late hit' is the term used for a late uncocking of the wrists
prior to impact).
Shortly after my first viewing of his video about four years ago, I
tried the four-finger grip myself and although I did manage to hit the
ball, I was quite negative about my initial results and how it felt and
gave up on it.
Two years passed and I stumbled on an article about Bobby Jones,
claiming that he swung the club adding 5-10mph 'effect' to the
force of gravity. I combined this with my readings about 'true
gravity' (Golf in the Kingdom, by Michael Murphy). Both passages busy
themselves with the theory that the more we interfere with the natural
forces of gravity, the more we hinder its natural acceleration.
A little understanding of gravity at this point helps but I won't go
into that with all the geniuses there are in this forum.
However the golf swing moves into a completely different level by using
centrifugal or centripedal force. That's like when you spin a weight
at the end of a length of string, it picks up great speed with little
movement of the hand.
Golf's centrifugal force works like this: if the hip turn reaches a
speed of 2mph, this projects the shoulders to 16mph, hands to 24mph,
and the club head reaches 100mph at impact. Increase the hip turn by
=BDmph and the shoulders go to 20, hands to 30 and club head to 120. As
a matter of fact, the normal force of gravity generates the 2mph hip
turn and the force of 'true gravity' generates 2=BDmph.
Is the penny beginning to drop?
This is where Jones's 5-10mph comes in. He was talking about the
increased hand speed, which is explained above as 6mph faster. But how
can this be applied.
This brings us to the four-finger grip. You will learn how to add this
5-10mph using this 'beginner golf lesson' and achieve power you never
thought possible.
But there is a snag, if you increase your hand speed by 20mph, which
most people do when attempting to increase power, the figures won't
work. Learn more about the four-finger grip drill on my 'free beginner
golf lesson' page.
Awrabest
S=2EMacD.
Mike Dalecki wrote:
> pmchugh@online.de wrote:
> > Centripetal or centrifugal, who cares. It's not me who's getting into
> > the pure physics of a swing it's you lot.
> >
> > I'm just saying that I've got a great little drill that lets you feel
> > the 'late hit' and it happens at the start of the downswing (the
> > transition from back to down swing to be precise).
> >
> > And...You don't have to hit 1000 balls a day to achieve it.
> >
> > Stick that in your pipe and smoke it slowly.
> >
> > Please come back with feedback that doesn't contain science...please!
> >
> > Awrabest
> >
> > S.MacD.
> >
>
>
> That sounds terrific! Why don't you just post that great little drill
> so we can see what it's all about?
>
> Go ahead--I promise we'll give it careful consideration and you coherent
> feedback.
>=20
> Mike
|
| | |
Date: 08 Nov 2006 07:27:36
From: Mike Dalecki
Subject: Re: "True Gravity"
|
pmchugh@online.de wrote:
> The four finger grip drill. Now that's the beginner golf lesson I wish
> I'd been given all those years ago. It's not just a lesson; it's like
> having your very own trainer by your side every time you want to find
> the perfect swing.
> The first time I saw this drill, which I have found to be an ideal
> beginner golf lesson, was on a coaching video by golf guru, Greg
> McHatton. He was just showing everyone how dynamic the golf club is
> without exerting too much force from the hands or arms.
>
> What I didn't realise at the time was how easy it was to actually hit a
> dynamic shot with this grip. I remember watching the video and Greg
> explaining that it was difficult to influence the club's gravity and
> swing path with this grip. As this was a video, I was only able to see
> the swing he made and not what happened to the ball. All he said
> regarding this was, "It's quite surprising how far and straight that
> ball has actually flown."
>
> I thought no more about this beginner golf lesson because Greg had
> only dropped it in to let his audience know that it helped people
> experience the feeling in the hands for the much-desired 'late hit'.
> ('Late hit' is the term used for a late uncocking of the wrists
> prior to impact).
>
> Shortly after my first viewing of his video about four years ago, I
> tried the four-finger grip myself and although I did manage to hit the
> ball, I was quite negative about my initial results and how it felt and
> gave up on it.
>
> Two years passed and I stumbled on an article about Bobby Jones,
> claiming that he swung the club adding 5-10mph 'effect' to the
> force of gravity. I combined this with my readings about 'true
> gravity' (Golf in the Kingdom, by Michael Murphy). Both passages busy
> themselves with the theory that the more we interfere with the natural
> forces of gravity, the more we hinder its natural acceleration.
>
> A little understanding of gravity at this point helps but I won't go
> into that with all the geniuses there are in this forum.
>
> However the golf swing moves into a completely different level by using
> centrifugal or centripedal force. That's like when you spin a weight
> at the end of a length of string, it picks up great speed with little
> movement of the hand.
>
> Golf's centrifugal force works like this: if the hip turn reaches a
> speed of 2mph, this projects the shoulders to 16mph, hands to 24mph,
> and the club head reaches 100mph at impact. Increase the hip turn by
> ˝mph and the shoulders go to 20, hands to 30 and club head to 120. As
> a matter of fact, the normal force of gravity generates the 2mph hip
> turn and the force of 'true gravity' generates 2˝mph.
>
> Is the penny beginning to drop?
>
> This is where Jones's 5-10mph comes in. He was talking about the
> increased hand speed, which is explained above as 6mph faster. But how
> can this be applied.
>
> This brings us to the four-finger grip. You will learn how to add this
> 5-10mph using this 'beginner golf lesson' and achieve power you never
> thought possible.
>
> But there is a snag, if you increase your hand speed by 20mph, which
> most people do when attempting to increase power, the figures won't
> work. Learn more about the four-finger grip drill on my 'free beginner
> golf lesson' page.
>
> Awrabest
>
> S.MacD.
>
I must have missed the 4-finger drill. Would you explain it?
Just post it here--no need to redirect people to your website.
Mike
|
| | |
Date: 08 Nov 2006 08:08:09
From: FredK
Subject: Re: "True Gravity"
|
Deja vu? Did you answer the question or repeat an ealier post?
<pmchugh@online.de > wrote in message
news:1162981973.122874.274250@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
The four finger grip drill. Now that's the beginner golf lesson I wish
I'd been given all those years ago. It's not just a lesson; it's like
having your very own trainer by your side every time you want to find
the perfect swing.
The first time I saw this drill, which I have found to be an ideal
beginner golf lesson, was on a coaching video by golf guru, Greg
McHatton. He was just showing everyone how dynamic the golf club is
without exerting too much force from the hands or arms.
What I didn't realise at the time was how easy it was to actually hit a
dynamic shot with this grip. I remember watching the video and Greg
explaining that it was difficult to influence the club's gravity and
swing path with this grip. As this was a video, I was only able to see
the swing he made and not what happened to the ball. All he said
regarding this was, "It's quite surprising how far and straight that
ball has actually flown."
I thought no more about this beginner golf lesson because Greg had
only dropped it in to let his audience know that it helped people
experience the feeling in the hands for the much-desired 'late hit'.
('Late hit' is the term used for a late uncocking of the wrists
prior to impact).
Shortly after my first viewing of his video about four years ago, I
tried the four-finger grip myself and although I did manage to hit the
ball, I was quite negative about my initial results and how it felt and
gave up on it.
Two years passed and I stumbled on an article about Bobby Jones,
claiming that he swung the club adding 5-10mph 'effect' to the
force of gravity. I combined this with my readings about 'true
gravity' (Golf in the Kingdom, by Michael Murphy). Both passages busy
themselves with the theory that the more we interfere with the natural
forces of gravity, the more we hinder its natural acceleration.
A little understanding of gravity at this point helps but I won't go
into that with all the geniuses there are in this forum.
However the golf swing moves into a completely different level by using
centrifugal or centripedal force. That's like when you spin a weight
at the end of a length of string, it picks up great speed with little
movement of the hand.
Golf's centrifugal force works like this: if the hip turn reaches a
speed of 2mph, this projects the shoulders to 16mph, hands to 24mph,
and the club head reaches 100mph at impact. Increase the hip turn by
˝mph and the shoulders go to 20, hands to 30 and club head to 120. As
a matter of fact, the normal force of gravity generates the 2mph hip
turn and the force of 'true gravity' generates 2˝mph.
Is the penny beginning to drop?
This is where Jones's 5-10mph comes in. He was talking about the
increased hand speed, which is explained above as 6mph faster. But how
can this be applied.
This brings us to the four-finger grip. You will learn how to add this
5-10mph using this 'beginner golf lesson' and achieve power you never
thought possible.
But there is a snag, if you increase your hand speed by 20mph, which
most people do when attempting to increase power, the figures won't
work. Learn more about the four-finger grip drill on my 'free beginner
golf lesson' page.
Awrabest
S.MacD.
Mike Dalecki wrote:
> pmchugh@online.de wrote:
> > Centripetal or centrifugal, who cares. It's not me who's getting into
> > the pure physics of a swing it's you lot.
> >
> > I'm just saying that I've got a great little drill that lets you feel
> > the 'late hit' and it happens at the start of the downswing (the
> > transition from back to down swing to be precise).
> >
> > And...You don't have to hit 1000 balls a day to achieve it.
> >
> > Stick that in your pipe and smoke it slowly.
> >
> > Please come back with feedback that doesn't contain science...please!
> >
> > Awrabest
> >
> > S.MacD.
> >
>
>
> That sounds terrific! Why don't you just post that great little drill
> so we can see what it's all about?
>
> Go ahead--I promise we'll give it careful consideration and you coherent
> feedback.
>
> Mike
|
| |
Date: 08 Nov 2006 16:26:44
From:
Subject: Re: "True Gravity"
|
OK, sorry for the hold up. Here goes.
As I mentioned earlier I first came accross this on a video by Greg
McHatton and was more surprised that he could actually hit a shot with
such a soft hold on the club.
I went to the range and gave it a go with quite miserable results. I
quickly gave up on it and thought at the time that it was another of
Greg's talented tricks.
About 2 years later, 2004, I was watching the same McHatton video and
that particular clip quite a few times over and over again. Sometimes
in slow motion, at normal speed, and then freezing it to be sure he
wasn't regripping anywhere.
Sure enough, he was only using the four fingers and the fingertips at
that. As he himself mentioned, the beauty of this grip is the natural
late hit it enables.
Off I went once more to the range to give this another go. I gripped
the club just like Greg and began swinging the club back and forth and
swished the grass a few times. At first it is difficult to get the club
swinging as the fingers are unable to support the club's weight, so a
start where the hands move first and let the club follow is required.
The club then freewheels to the top of the swing where I have
improvised a little and used my right pinky to gently stop the club
when it is parallel to the ground. Without the right pinky the shaft
was hitting my back and it was all a little too jerky.
At first my club face was quite open at impact and I was hitting week
pushes about 70 yds to the right with my 9 iron. Then I remembered the
main reason for this grip was to take the hands out of the shot. I
realised that I was trying to manipulate the club at impact and
therefore using my hands.
Somehow with my practice swing the club was swiping nicely along the
grass but with the ball something was different. The difference was, I
was reacting to the ball. <P >
But how?
I took a few more swings and suddenly realised that I was squeezing
hard with these fingers at impact and this was the interference that
wasn't happening with the practice swing.
OK, don't squeeze at impact!
Easier said than done. Will the club not fly out of my fingers with
such a soft hold?
Well it doesn't with the practice swing. In fact there's a very
free-flowing control. Let's see what happens with the ball under the
same conditions.
Wow!
Now that was better. Dead straight, soft as butter, much higher than
any 9 iron I've ever hit and you know what I actually think it landed
20yds over the 100yd marker. Couldn't have that's only 10 yds short of
my normal length with this club.
Let's try that again, oops the club nearly slipped out of my hands this
time, but again some thing similar happened and this time I watched
carefully as it landed 120yds out.
I hit another 20 balls like this and they were mostly the same except
when I was squeezing at impact. As a matter of fact it only took me
about 10 shots before I realised this was why I had given up on this 2
years earlier.
Later that day I hit another 20 shots with the same grip but this time
I had a glove on both hands to allow me to hold it even softer without
the fear of losing the club. I then started popping them out to about
130yds and decided there and then that I was going to adapt the
dynamics of this into my own swing.
.=2E. And so the four finger grip drill was born!!!
Go try it and come back to me with your results.
For you hitters out there you're gonna have to get a little looser a
impact and for those who swing like a pro already, you're gonna get
this right away. Within 10 balls, I guarantee it.
As I say it's like having your own coach telling how to do it all
better.
A final thanks must go to Greg McHatton, without whom, I would never
had adapted to a much better late hit which most people believe can't
be taught and I would never have shot my 67 (5 under), the best at our
course in over a decade.
Awrabest
S=2EMacD.
FredK wrote:
> Deja vu? Did you answer the question or repeat an ealier post?
>
>
> <pmchugh@online.de> wrote in message
> news:1162981973.122874.274250@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> The four finger grip drill. Now that's the beginner golf lesson I wish
> I'd been given all those years ago. It's not just a lesson; it's like
> having your very own trainer by your side every time you want to find
> the perfect swing.
> The first time I saw this drill, which I have found to be an ideal
> beginner golf lesson, was on a coaching video by golf guru, Greg
> McHatton. He was just showing everyone how dynamic the golf club is
> without exerting too much force from the hands or arms.
>
> What I didn't realise at the time was how easy it was to actually hit a
> dynamic shot with this grip. I remember watching the video and Greg
> explaining that it was difficult to influence the club's gravity and
> swing path with this grip. As this was a video, I was only able to see
> the swing he made and not what happened to the ball. All he said
> regarding this was, "It's quite surprising how far and straight that
> ball has actually flown."
>
> I thought no more about this beginner golf lesson because Greg had
> only dropped it in to let his audience know that it helped people
> experience the feeling in the hands for the much-desired 'late hit'.
> ('Late hit' is the term used for a late uncocking of the wrists
> prior to impact).
>
> Shortly after my first viewing of his video about four years ago, I
> tried the four-finger grip myself and although I did manage to hit the
> ball, I was quite negative about my initial results and how it felt and
> gave up on it.
>
> Two years passed and I stumbled on an article about Bobby Jones,
> claiming that he swung the club adding 5-10mph 'effect' to the
> force of gravity. I combined this with my readings about 'true
> gravity' (Golf in the Kingdom, by Michael Murphy). Both passages busy
> themselves with the theory that the more we interfere with the natural
> forces of gravity, the more we hinder its natural acceleration.
>
> A little understanding of gravity at this point helps but I won't go
> into that with all the geniuses there are in this forum.
>
> However the golf swing moves into a completely different level by using
> centrifugal or centripedal force. That's like when you spin a weight
> at the end of a length of string, it picks up great speed with little
> movement of the hand.
>
> Golf's centrifugal force works like this: if the hip turn reaches a
> speed of 2mph, this projects the shoulders to 16mph, hands to 24mph,
> and the club head reaches 100mph at impact. Increase the hip turn by
> =BDmph and the shoulders go to 20, hands to 30 and club head to 120. As
> a matter of fact, the normal force of gravity generates the 2mph hip
> turn and the force of 'true gravity' generates 2=BDmph.
>
> Is the penny beginning to drop?
>
> This is where Jones's 5-10mph comes in. He was talking about the
> increased hand speed, which is explained above as 6mph faster. But how
> can this be applied.
>
> This brings us to the four-finger grip. You will learn how to add this
> 5-10mph using this 'beginner golf lesson' and achieve power you never
> thought possible.
>
> But there is a snag, if you increase your hand speed by 20mph, which
> most people do when attempting to increase power, the figures won't
> work. Learn more about the four-finger grip drill on my 'free beginner
> golf lesson' page.
>
> Awrabest
>
> S.MacD.
>
>
> Mike Dalecki wrote:
> > pmchugh@online.de wrote:
> > > Centripetal or centrifugal, who cares. It's not me who's getting into
> > > the pure physics of a swing it's you lot.
> > >
> > > I'm just saying that I've got a great little drill that lets you feel
> > > the 'late hit' and it happens at the start of the downswing (the
> > > transition from back to down swing to be precise).
> > >
> > > And...You don't have to hit 1000 balls a day to achieve it.
> > >
> > > Stick that in your pipe and smoke it slowly.
> > >
> > > Please come back with feedback that doesn't contain science...please!
> > >
> > > Awrabest
> > >
> > > S.MacD.
> > >
> >
> >
> > That sounds terrific! Why don't you just post that great little drill
> > so we can see what it's all about?
> >
> > Go ahead--I promise we'll give it careful consideration and you coherent
> > feedback.
> >
> > Mike
|
|
