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Date: 20 Sep 2006 12:10:16
From: Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
Subject: Scott Verplank sounds off on Michelle
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http://www.kfmb.com/sports/story.php?id=63545
(snip)
To Verplank, her score suggests she shouldn't be squandering time
trying to achieve goals that no golfer her age, male or female, can
reasonably expect to reach.
"She's certainly not scaring anybody around here," Verplank said. "To
be honest, I didn't even know she was here."
Verplank pointed out that not even Tiger Woods was regularly trying to
beat the men when he was 16.
"Obviously, she's some sort of phenom being a 16-year-old girl who can
play like she can, but honestly there's not a male or female in the
world who can compete out here at that age," Verplank said. "I'm sure
there are some very fine 16-year-old boys who can play, but it would be
awful hard for them to come out here and make a scratch.
If I was her adviser, I would tell her to go kick all the ladies' tails
around for about four years and if she wants to try again when she's
20, 21 and grown up more, and maybe a better player, come on back," he
said.
--------------------------------
I think Scott is wrong. If michelle wants to compete against the men,
she has to play men's courses. Men's courses are not just lengthened
LPGA courses. They have faster greens and deeper and more prevalent
rough and michelle has to develop the strength to hold those greens
with her iron shots and blast her way out of the hay. She won't build
that strength on the drive and putt LPGA courses.
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Date: 20 Sep 2006 20:37:22
From: pete z
Subject: Re: Scott Verplank sounds off on Michelle
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dsc wrote:
> Larry Bud wrote:
> > > They have faster greens and deeper and more prevalent
> > > rough and michelle has to develop the strength to hold those greens
> > > with her iron shots and blast her way out of the hay. She won't build
> > > that strength on the drive and putt LPGA courses.
> >
> > You build strength in the gym, not hacking a 1.68 ounce ball out of the
> > rough.
>
> If there's ever going to be a female that can compete head to head with
> the top 10 or so male golfers she is going to be a lot more massive
> than I think MW will ever be. She will be a Venus/Serena Williams type
> build or a Gabby Reese or even a Laura Davies sized woman.
> MW has the height, but she needs to bulk up to 180+pounds of lean cut
> lady or 200+ pounds of not so lean cut lady. She need more mass and it
> needs to be mostly muscle and she need to achieve this without losing
> suppleness and touch and coordination. She will also need to be a lot
> meaner/tougher. MW is not mean/tough... at least not yet.
Oh yes, Gabby Reese. Has she broken 80 yet? The next great phenom.
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Date: 20 Sep 2006 19:37:00
From: Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
Subject: Re: Scott Verplank sounds off on Michelle
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Larry Bud wrote:
> > They have faster greens and deeper and more prevalent
> > rough and michelle has to develop the strength to hold those greens
> > with her iron shots and blast her way out of the hay. She won't build
> > that strength on the drive and putt LPGA courses.
>
> You build strength in the gym, not hacking a 1.68 ounce ball out of the
> rough.
Nicklaus never used weights and he was super out of the rough.
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Date: 20 Sep 2006 19:35:58
From: annika1980
Subject: Re: Scott Verplank sounds off on Michelle
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blakestah@gmail.com wrote:
>
> MW will burn out, not fade away. She's already had the best earnings
> year of her life, and she'll not see another like it.
>
Yeah, whatever. And Tiger will never get his PGA Tour card in just 7
events either.
"Stupid predictions for $1000, Alex."
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Date: 20 Sep 2006 19:16:42
From: dsc
Subject: Re: Scott Verplank sounds off on Michelle
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Larry Bud wrote:
> > They have faster greens and deeper and more prevalent
> > rough and michelle has to develop the strength to hold those greens
> > with her iron shots and blast her way out of the hay. She won't build
> > that strength on the drive and putt LPGA courses.
>
> You build strength in the gym, not hacking a 1.68 ounce ball out of the
> rough.
If there's ever going to be a female that can compete head to head with
the top 10 or so male golfers she is going to be a lot more massive
than I think MW will ever be. She will be a Venus/Serena Williams type
build or a Gabby Reese or even a Laura Davies sized woman.
MW has the height, but she needs to bulk up to 180+pounds of lean cut
lady or 200+ pounds of not so lean cut lady. She need more mass and it
needs to be mostly muscle and she need to achieve this without losing
suppleness and touch and coordination. She will also need to be a lot
meaner/tougher. MW is not mean/tough... at least not yet.
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Date: 21 Sep 2006 02:37:57
From: Roger Thaat
Subject: Re: Scott Verplank sounds off on Michelle
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dsc wrote:
>
>
> If there's ever going to be a female that can compete head to head with
> the top 10 or so male golfers she is going to be a lot more massive
> than I think MW will ever be. She will be a Venus/Serena Williams type
> build
Another fallacy. Serena Williams, while imposing for a woman, will get
dusted regularly by any top level club tennis player. She would be
unlikely to get a game from a guy ranked in the top 200 in the pros.
--
Roger Thaat
You may remember me. I used to be called Howard U. Dewing, but only one
guy ever answered the question.
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Date: 22 Sep 2006 16:21:29
From: Steven Paul
Subject: Re: Scott Verplank sounds off on Michelle
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In article <9WmQg.5261$R63.39@pd7urf1no >, Roger Thaat
<Nevermind@server.it > wrote:
> Another fallacy. Serena Williams, while imposing for a woman, will get
> dusted regularly by any top level club tennis player. She would be
> unlikely to get a game from a guy ranked in the top 200 in the pros.
In the late 90s Linda Wild gave a clinic at the local tennis center. As
part of the event she played an exhibition against the club pro, a run
of the mill 5.0 player in his mid 40s.
The first set they rallied from the baseline and she tore him apart. He
had zero chance. Then he went to the net and won handily. I was amazed
at how she just couldn't deal with it.
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Date: 20 Sep 2006 20:20:06
From: Mark A
Subject: Re: Scott Verplank sounds off on Michelle
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"dsc" <Dudley.Cornman@eku.edu > wrote in message
news:1158805002.193404.323490@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> If there's ever going to be a female that can compete head to head with
> the top 10 or so male golfers she is going to be a lot more massive
> than I think MW will ever be. She will be a Venus/Serena Williams type
> build or a Gabby Reese or even a Laura Davies sized woman.
> MW has the height, but she needs to bulk up to 180+pounds of lean cut
> lady or 200+ pounds of not so lean cut lady. She need more mass and it
> needs to be mostly muscle and she need to achieve this without losing
> suppleness and touch and coordination. She will also need to be a lot
> meaner/tougher. MW is not mean/tough... at least not yet.
MW is not going to get $10 million per year in endorsement money if she
weighs anywhere near 180 lbs (and I don't care how much is muscle). You must
be out of your friggin mind.
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Date: 20 Sep 2006 18:09:53
From: Larry Bud
Subject: Re: Scott Verplank sounds off on Michelle
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> They have faster greens and deeper and more prevalent
> rough and michelle has to develop the strength to hold those greens
> with her iron shots and blast her way out of the hay. She won't build
> that strength on the drive and putt LPGA courses.
You build strength in the gym, not hacking a 1.68 ounce ball out of the
rough.
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Date: 20 Sep 2006 17:09:12
From:
Subject: Re: Scott Verplank sounds off on Michelle
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Roger Thaat wrote:
> Hitting a 280 yd drive is such a tiny aspect of the game that people
> seem to overlook all the other elements where MW is lacking. She cannot
> get the ball out of 5" rough onto the green from 190 yds with a 7i like
> 90% of the male players can. And no amount of playing 84 Lumber events
> will alter that.
It is an absolute non-factor.
The PGA pros are SO much better in their recovery shots and short
game than the women it is not even funny. And putting, too. The
difference is stark and dramatic.
MW will burn out, not fade away. She's already had the best earnings
year of her life, and she'll not see another like it.
-PA
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Date: 20 Sep 2006 22:11:39
From: Roger Thaat
Subject: Re: Scott Verplank sounds off on Michelle
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>
> I think Scott is wrong. If michelle wants to compete against the men,
> she has to play men's courses. Men's courses are not just lengthened
> LPGA courses. They have faster greens and deeper and more prevalent
> rough and michelle has to develop the strength to hold those greens
> with her iron shots and blast her way out of the hay. She won't build
> that strength on the drive and putt LPGA courses.
>
She won't build up any strength playing golf anywhere. The strength she
needs to compete with men is found in the gym and the weight room. And
even if she spends the next 5 years there, she will still be a woman
trying to compete in a man's game. Annika S. is perhaps the strongest,
most skilled and fittest woman player today, and she's not a factor
against the men.
Hitting a 280 yd drive is such a tiny aspect of the game that people
seem to overlook all the other elements where MW is lacking. She cannot
get the ball out of 5" rough onto the green from 190 yds with a 7i like
90% of the male players can. And no amount of playing 84 Lumber events
will alter that.
--
Roger Thaat
You may remember me. I used to be called Howard U. Dewing, but only one
guy ever answered the question.
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Date: 21 Sep 2006 01:51:02
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: Scott Verplank sounds off on Michelle
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On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 22:11:39 GMT, Roger Thaat <Nevermind@server.it >
wrote:
>She won't build up any strength playing golf anywhere. The strength she
>needs to compete with men is found in the gym and the weight room. And
>even if she spends the next 5 years there, she will still be a woman
>trying to compete in a man's game. Annika S. is perhaps the strongest,
>most skilled and fittest woman player today, and she's not a factor
>against the men.
A few of the more portly women seem to be stronger than Annika.
Strength is useful, but it isn't everything.
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Date: 20 Sep 2006 21:52:57
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: Scott Verplank sounds off on Michelle
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On 20 Sep 2006 12:10:16 -0700, "Laura Bush murdered her boy friend"
<xeton2001@yahoo.com > wrote:
>I think Scott is wrong. If michelle wants to compete against the men,
>she has to play men's courses. Men's courses are not just lengthened
>LPGA courses. They have faster greens and deeper and more prevalent
>rough and michelle has to develop the strength to hold those greens
>with her iron shots and blast her way out of the hay. She won't build
>that strength on the drive and putt LPGA courses.
Good point. But she doesn't need to build her PGA Tour skills up yet
on courses that don't suit her game.
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Date: 20 Sep 2006 18:20:25
From: sfb
Subject: Re: Scott Verplank sounds off on Michelle
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She can get a hell of a lot more rounds playing once a week on PGA Tour
class golf courses without leaving Hawaii than she's getting missing the cut
on the mainland.
"Howard Brazee" <howard@brazee.net > wrote in message
news:uvd3h29q9nsol5p027hpin00pvkhpsh4k6@4ax.com...
> On 20 Sep 2006 12:10:16 -0700, "Laura Bush murdered her boy friend"
> <xeton2001@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>I think Scott is wrong. If michelle wants to compete against the men,
>>she has to play men's courses. Men's courses are not just lengthened
>>LPGA courses. They have faster greens and deeper and more prevalent
>>rough and michelle has to develop the strength to hold those greens
>>with her iron shots and blast her way out of the hay. She won't build
>>that strength on the drive and putt LPGA courses.
>
> Good point. But she doesn't need to build her PGA Tour skills up yet
> on courses that don't suit her game.
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Date: 21 Sep 2006 10:45:22
From: Larry Bud
Subject: Re: Scott Verplank sounds off on Michelle
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oconnell@slr.orl.lmco.com wrote:
> Bob Brown wrote:
> > > I think Scott is wrong. If michelle wants to compete against the men,
> > > she has to play men's courses. Men's courses are not just lengthened
> > > LPGA courses. They have faster greens and deeper and more prevalent
> > > rough and michelle has to develop the strength to hold those greens
> > > with her iron shots and blast her way out of the hay. She won't build
> > > that strength on the drive and putt LPGA courses.
> > >
> >
> > I think Scott is right. She would be better off playing with the ladies to
> > first prove herself on that tour before she tries the PGA Tour.
>
> I think she would benefit from the same thing that all the men do.
> Play on the mini tours and Nationwide tour. Playing on the LPGA
> won't challenge her game the way the men's setups will.
Since she wasn't won yet on the LPGA, it seems to currently be plenty
challenging.
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Date: 21 Sep 2006 10:44:15
From: Larry Bud
Subject: Re: Scott Verplank sounds off on Michelle
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Laura Bush murdered her boy friend wrote:
> Larry Bud wrote:
> > > They have faster greens and deeper and more prevalent
> > > rough and michelle has to develop the strength to hold those greens
> > > with her iron shots and blast her way out of the hay. She won't build
> > > that strength on the drive and putt LPGA courses.
> >
> > You build strength in the gym, not hacking a 1.68 ounce ball out of the
> > rough.
>
> Nicklaus never used weights and he was super out of the rough.
Nicklaus was never a 16 year old girl, unless there's something you
know that I don't.
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Date: 21 Sep 2006 10:18:21
From: oconnell@slr.orl.lmco.com
Subject: Re: Scott Verplank sounds off on Michelle
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Michel Oui wrote:
> oconnell@slr.orl.lmco.com wrote:
[snip]
> > I think she would benefit from the same thing that all the men do.
> > Play on the mini tours and Nationwide tour. Playing on the LPGA
> > won't challenge her game the way the men's setups will.
>
> I agree. She should completely forget about the LPGA and continue
> to solely play in men's events.
[snip]
With whom are you agreeing. I don't know anyone that suggested this.
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Date: 21 Sep 2006 06:37:37
From: Birdie Bill
Subject: Re: Scott Verplank sounds off on Michelle
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annika1980 wrote:
> pete z wrote:
> >
> > Oh yes, Gabby Reese. Has she broken 80 yet? The next great phenom.
>
> May Wood is probably the strongest woman out there and she can't beat
> me, let alone the diminutive Mi Hyun Kim (aka "Peanut") who is about a
> foot shorter.
Just hope Laura Davis doesn't hear that.
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Date: 21 Sep 2006 05:51:35
From: annika1980
Subject: Re: Scott Verplank sounds off on Michelle
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pete z wrote:
>
> Oh yes, Gabby Reese. Has she broken 80 yet? The next great phenom.
May Wood is probably the strongest woman out there and she can't beat
me, let alone the diminutive Mi Hyun Kim (aka "Peanut") who is about a
foot shorter.
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Date: 21 Sep 2006 05:46:13
From: oconnell@slr.orl.lmco.com
Subject: Re: Scott Verplank sounds off on Michelle
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Bob Brown wrote:
> > I think Scott is wrong. If michelle wants to compete against the men,
> > she has to play men's courses. Men's courses are not just lengthened
> > LPGA courses. They have faster greens and deeper and more prevalent
> > rough and michelle has to develop the strength to hold those greens
> > with her iron shots and blast her way out of the hay. She won't build
> > that strength on the drive and putt LPGA courses.
> >
>
> I think Scott is right. She would be better off playing with the ladies to
> first prove herself on that tour before she tries the PGA Tour.
I think she would benefit from the same thing that all the men do.
Play on the mini tours and Nationwide tour. Playing on the LPGA
won't challenge her game the way the men's setups will.
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Date: 21 Sep 2006 17:11:01
From: Michel Oui
Subject: Re: Scott Verplank sounds off on Michelle
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oconnell@slr.orl.lmco.com wrote:
> Bob Brown wrote:
>
>>>I think Scott is wrong. If michelle wants to compete against the men,
>>>she has to play men's courses. Men's courses are not just lengthened
>>>LPGA courses. They have faster greens and deeper and more prevalent
>>>rough and michelle has to develop the strength to hold those greens
>>>with her iron shots and blast her way out of the hay. She won't build
>>>that strength on the drive and putt LPGA courses.
>>>
>>
>>I think Scott is right. She would be better off playing with the ladies to
>>first prove herself on that tour before she tries the PGA Tour.
>
>
> I think she would benefit from the same thing that all the men do.
> Play on the mini tours and Nationwide tour. Playing on the LPGA
> won't challenge her game the way the men's setups will.
I agree. She should completely forget about the LPGA and continue
to solely play in men's events. If and when she finally makes a
cut her winnings on Sunday should total about $8,000 or so for
finishing at or near the bottom. In a good year she could potentially
make a couple of cuts on the men's tour and rake in maybe $25K or so.
How much does she pay her caddie anyway?
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Date: 21 Sep 2006 23:13:51
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: Scott Verplank sounds off on Michelle
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On 21 Sep 2006 05:46:13 -0700, "oconnell@slr.orl.lmco.com"
<oconnell@slr.orl.lmco.com > wrote:
> I think she would benefit from the same thing that all the men do.
>Play on the mini tours and Nationwide tour. Playing on the LPGA
>won't challenge her game the way the men's setups will.
Have any men chosen that route who have had the option of playing on
PGA tour events instead?
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Date: 21 Sep 2006 19:36:08
From: Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
Subject: Re: Scott Verplank sounds off on Michelle
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marti285@umn.edu wrote:
>
> Except, she does not have to "prove" anyhting to anybody. It is her
> career, hence her decisions. If she fails, she fails. If she succeeds,
> she succeeds. Case closed. Her decisions don't impact our lives, or
> Verplank's, or any specific golfer's life.
Take your goddam philosophy lecture and shove it up your grandma's ass.
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Date: 21 Sep 2006 12:57:45
From:
Subject: Re: Scott Verplank sounds off on Michelle
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annika1980 wrote:
> blakestah@gmail.com wrote:
> > MW will burn out, not fade away. She's already had the best earnings
> > year of her life, and she'll not see another like it.
> Yeah, whatever. And Tiger will never get his PGA Tour card in just 7
> events either. "Stupid predictions for $1000, Alex."
Wie made $10 million this year.
The best woman golfer in the history of the game made
$7.5 million in the same year.
Wie was being paid to get appearances at men's events,
because of her potential.
Now that her potential is shattered, and she didn't even win any
women's events, she'll fall in line behind the other women who
cannot match the skill of Annika Sorenstam either. And she
will earn a fraction of what Sorenstam makes, commensurate
with skill in competition. Wie will not get many return invitations
to men's events.
However, Sorenstam might be tempted by sponsors desire to
see her make a PGA tour cut, and if she played in 3-4 minor PGA
events she would certainly be successful at least once. And she'd
probably make a good chunk of sponsor money for that.
-PA
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Date: 22 Sep 2006 11:06:18
From: Miss Anne Thrope
Subject: Re: Scott Verplank sounds off on Michelle
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When Verplank says "she's certainly not scaring anybody around here.",
what he really means is that he is terrified of her.........and any
other woman for that matter.
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Date: 22 Sep 2006 06:54:04
From: Larry Bud
Subject: Re: Scott Verplank sounds off on Michelle
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> Will tee times at the local course be reserved only for those who
> achieve a certain score?
Now that's a GREAT idea! ;-)
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Date: 22 Sep 2006 16:11:26
From:
Subject: Re: Scott Verplank sounds off on Michelle
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blakestah@gmail.com wrote:
> annika1980 wrote:
> > blakestah@gmail.com wrote:
> > > MW will burn out, not fade away. She's already had the best earnings
> > > year of her life, and she'll not see another like it.
>
> > Yeah, whatever. And Tiger will never get his PGA Tour card in just 7
> > events either. "Stupid predictions for $1000, Alex."
>
> Wie made $10 million this year.
>
> The best woman golfer in the history of the game made
> $7.5 million in the same year.
Are you talking endorsement money? Tournament money? Both? How much
did Annika make in endorsements this year? And where did you get your
stats?
> Wie was being paid to get appearances at men's events,
> because of her potential.
>
> Now that her potential is shattered (snipped)
Classic. Writing off a 16-year old. Tell me that pro golfers
typically peak in their mid-teen years - ha!
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Date: 22 Sep 2006 16:06:07
From: The_Professor
Subject: Re: Scott Verplank sounds off on Michelle
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annika1980 wrote:
> pete z wrote:
> >
> > Oh yes, Gabby Reese. Has she broken 80 yet? The next great phenom.
>
> May Wood is probably the strongest woman out there and she can't beat
> me, let alone the diminutive Mi Hyun Kim (aka "Peanut") who is about a
> foot shorter.
MW is still just a kid. She isn't small either; the other women don't
stand next to her because she makes most of them look like runts. She
works out a bit and she'll look like a female Hulk Hogan when she's 24!
;^)
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Date: 22 Sep 2006 16:03:05
From:
Subject: Re: Scott Verplank sounds off on Michelle
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Roger Thaat wrote:
> dsc wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > If there's ever going to be a female that can compete head to head with
> > the top 10 or so male golfers she is going to be a lot more massive
> > than I think MW will ever be. She will be a Venus/Serena Williams type
> > build
>
> Another fallacy. Serena Williams, while imposing for a woman, will get
> dusted regularly by any top level club tennis player. She would be
> unlikely to get a game from a guy ranked in the top 200 in the pros.
And you base this on what, exactly?
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