| |
Main
Date: 26 Nov 2006 13:29:04
From:
Subject: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
I couldn't recommend this highly enough, especially for a tough
course. Make it one of your golf habits and you'll find your scores
and handicap will tumble.
There are two reasons for this. Firstly, bogey golf is a much easier
game and played properly you will widen your scope of interest, which
improves concentration, focus and attitude.
I would go as far as to say that every course should be tackled as
level 5's until your handicap gets down to at least -4 or -5 and even
then I wouldn't jump to normal par.
With the present handicap system, most people's handicaps are on
average between 5-10 shots worse than their allowance. It has to be as
they are rewarded with 2,3,4 or even 5 times '0.1' depending on how
much under their handicap they play.
However, no matter how bad they play the penalty is only one single
'0.1'. You all know the Mathematics and are aware that during the
season if we manage to beat our handicap on 10% of our rounds, not
outside the normal golf habits, then its been a successful season.
The second reason to play bogey golf is because the word 'par'
translates to 'professional average result' and although we all
strive to reach the lowest score possible, I don't think most of us
would expect to be put into this category.
I play off scratch but always allow myself the priveledge of playing
bogie golf on the four longest par fours. I adopted this long ago in my
amateur days as one of my first improved golf habits. This gives me 8
or 9 holes which are now par 5's and I regard each and every one of
them as good birdie opportunities.
A low handicapper should do this and should play bogey golf on selected
par 3's for every number over scratch. For example,
a 5 handicapper would have 9 par 5's and 9 par 4's and a 14
handicapper 18 par 5's. For the even higher handicappers, the long
par 4's and par 5's would be changed to 6's and so on.
I do hear a few 14 handicappers laughing at the very thought of calling
a 3 on a short hole an eagle but that is how I suggest you do it and it
works well for my 14 handicap students who have been working on this.
The first nine holes on our course are tough with two par 3's, four
long par 4's and three par 5's.
With bogey golf they often come in with around 2 under to level par.
They head into the easier nine holes with the same tactics and
there's a great knock-on effect and they often plays 2 to 4 under for
them.
Now how many of you 14 handicappers out there regularly break 90 on a
par 72. Well play this game with improved golf habits, e.g. bogey golf
and you will be achieving it more often. By the way, hold on to your
plus-fours because you may be quite surprised how low you can really
go!
For the higher handicappers, don't forget to change the par 3's to
5's before adjusting the par 5's. It is just easier to count this
way and the bonus of improving you score to par by two shots on the par
3's makes for a better attitude.
|
|
| |
Date: 26 Nov 2006 17:19:05
From:
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
pmchugh@online.de wrote:
> Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
>
Or troll RSG under various pseudonyms until you get the attention you
crave, regularly.
(or maybe LLLarry is visting Germany)
|
| |
Date: 27 Nov 2006 00:34:14
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
On 26 Nov 2006 13:29:04 -0800, pmchugh@online.de wrote:
>Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
I believe the original definition of bogey was "The score that an
ordinary avid golfer should expect to score".
My understanding of playing bogey golf is somewhat confused - which
makes sense since I am just approaching that level of competence.
Let's say I am at a 150 par 3 hole. Someone playing for par will hit
to the middle of the green and two-putt. Someone playing for birdie
will hit closer to the hole. What does someone playing for bogey
do?
Or let's say I'm playing a 380 yard par 4 hole. Depending on
dangers, I might tee off with a 5W, and try to hit my 7I to the middle
of the green and 2 putt. But often one shot or another will be off,
so I don't get my par - that's why I have a high handicap. What
should my strategy be?
|
| | |
Date: 27 Nov 2006 01:00:34
From: Dave Lee
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
"Howard Brazee" <howard@brazee.net > wrote in message
news:u8ckm2tgc235msipn9086jrdv5qun5km26@4ax.com...
> On 26 Nov 2006 13:29:04 -0800, pmchugh@online.de wrote:
>
> >Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
>
> I believe the original definition of bogey was "The score that an
> ordinary avid golfer should expect to score".
>
> My understanding of playing bogey golf is somewhat confused - which
> makes sense since I am just approaching that level of competence.
>
> Let's say I am at a 150 par 3 hole. Someone playing for par will hit
> to the middle of the green and two-putt. Someone playing for birdie
> will hit closer to the hole. What does someone playing for bogey
> do?
>
> Or let's say I'm playing a 380 yard par 4 hole. Depending on
> dangers, I might tee off with a 5W, and try to hit my 7I to the middle
> of the green and 2 putt. But often one shot or another will be off,
> so I don't get my par - that's why I have a high handicap. What
> should my strategy be?
Regarding bogey golf on a shortish par 3, my view is that 'bogey is a good
score'. So if it is a 150 yard par 3 with water tight to the front of the
green and no real trouble to the rear, then you hit a 170 yard club (for
example), probably over the green it the ball is well-struck. A bogey is
likely (although far from certain) if you execute your shot correctly, and
that is OK.
If there is no real trouble on that hole, aim for the center of the green
(or where-ever maximizes your chance of a birdie putt).
Other holes have other trade-offs.
dave
|
| |
Date: 26 Nov 2006 22:41:19
From: Robert Hamilton
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
pmchugh@online.de wrote:
> Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly
..snippppp.....
I'll remain a neanderthal and simply assess each shot as a singular event
and attempt a shot with what, as I see it, has the highest probability of
success, the most desirable outcome upon success, and the least penalty if
I don't pull it off as I imagined. I'll add up the score when I'm done and
take whatever it is. I figure that as my shotmaking skills improve, my
scores will improve. I won't play to shoot a score. That takes too much of
the fun out of the game.
|
| |
Date: 26 Nov 2006 22:01:37
From: 3putt in South Carolina
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
<pmchugh@online.de > wrote in message
news:1164576544.544349.211860@14g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
> Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
> //snip//
> For the higher handicappers, don't forget to change the par 3's to
> 5's before adjusting the par 5's. It is just easier to count this
> way and the bonus of improving you score to par by two shots on the par
> 3's makes for a better attitude.
>
Would that be called a double bogey eagle or maybe 3 putt green? And I
doubt playing bogey golf will help you to break 80 regularly without some
outside influence.
|
| |
Date: 26 Nov 2006 14:10:36
From: Cal
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
pmchugh@online.de wrote:
> Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
>
> I couldn't recommend this highly enough, especially for a tough
> course. Make it one of your golf habits and you'll find your scores
> and handicap will tumble.
>
> There are two reasons for this. Firstly, bogey golf is a much easier
> game and played properly you will widen your scope of interest, which
> improves concentration, focus and attitude.
>
> I would go as far as to say that every course should be tackled as
> level 5's until your handicap gets down to at least -4 or -5 and even
> then I wouldn't jump to normal par.
>
> With the present handicap system, most people's handicaps are on
> average between 5-10 shots worse than their allowance. It has to be as
> they are rewarded with 2,3,4 or even 5 times '0.1' depending on how
> much under their handicap they play.
>
> However, no matter how bad they play the penalty is only one single
> '0.1'. You all know the Mathematics and are aware that during the
> season if we manage to beat our handicap on 10% of our rounds, not
> outside the normal golf habits, then its been a successful season.
>
> The second reason to play bogey golf is because the word 'par'
> translates to 'professional average result' and although we all
> strive to reach the lowest score possible, I don't think most of us
> would expect to be put into this category.
>
> I play off scratch but always allow myself the priveledge of playing
> bogie golf on the four longest par fours. I adopted this long ago in my
> amateur days as one of my first improved golf habits. This gives me 8
> or 9 holes which are now par 5's and I regard each and every one of
> them as good birdie opportunities.
>
> A low handicapper should do this and should play bogey golf on selected
> par 3's for every number over scratch. For example,
> a 5 handicapper would have 9 par 5's and 9 par 4's and a 14
> handicapper 18 par 5's. For the even higher handicappers, the long
> par 4's and par 5's would be changed to 6's and so on.
>
> I do hear a few 14 handicappers laughing at the very thought of calling
> a 3 on a short hole an eagle but that is how I suggest you do it and it
> works well for my 14 handicap students who have been working on this.
> The first nine holes on our course are tough with two par 3's, four
> long par 4's and three par 5's.
>
> With bogey golf they often come in with around 2 under to level par.
> They head into the easier nine holes with the same tactics and
> there's a great knock-on effect and they often plays 2 to 4 under for
> them.
>
> Now how many of you 14 handicappers out there regularly break 90 on a
> par 72. Well play this game with improved golf habits, e.g. bogey golf
> and you will be achieving it more often. By the way, hold on to your
> plus-fours because you may be quite surprised how low you can really
> go!
>
> For the higher handicappers, don't forget to change the par 3's to
> 5's before adjusting the par 5's. It is just easier to count this
> way and the bonus of improving you score to par by two shots on the par
> 3's makes for a better attitude.
|
| |
Date: 27 Nov 2006 08:37:13
From: The_Professor
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
pmchugh@online.de wrote:
> What a bunch of miseries we have here on RSG. Get out there and play
> bogey golf as amatures should and you'll get a lot closer to playing
> your best more often.
>
> I don't need anyone to question this theory, I know it works and I have
> already explained why it works. I shot a 67 recently using my version
> of bogey golf...
>
What a load O' rubbish. If you don't want to discuss your speculations,
then stay away from *DISCUSSION* boards. We have an amateur clubmaker
here who thinks just like you though...right about everything...the
only people who know anything about anything are those who agree with
you!
I think we all here know our games well enough, and how we get
enjoyment out of the game, what impedes that enjoyment, and when we
play well. We can discuss that with you or anyone else, but the fancy
that you can dictate to me or anyone else how we enjoy the game or what
we can do to get the best out of our game is ridiculous.
|
| | |
Date: 27 Nov 2006 11:16:29
From: Bobby Knight
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
On 27 Nov 2006 08:37:13 -0800, "The_Professor" <dbid@att.net > wrote:
>
>pmchugh@online.de wrote:
>
>> What a bunch of miseries we have here on RSG. Get out there and play
>> bogey golf as amatures should and you'll get a lot closer to playing
>> your best more often.
>>
>> I don't need anyone to question this theory, I know it works and I have
>> already explained why it works. I shot a 67 recently using my version
>> of bogey golf...
>>
>
>What a load O' rubbish. If you don't want to discuss your speculations,
>then stay away from *DISCUSSION* boards. We have an amateur clubmaker
>here who thinks just like you though...right about everything...the
>only people who know anything about anything are those who agree with
>you!
>
>I think we all here know our games well enough, and how we get
>enjoyment out of the game, what impedes that enjoyment, and when we
>play well. We can discuss that with you or anyone else, but the fancy
>that you can dictate to me or anyone else how we enjoy the game or what
>we can do to get the best out of our game is ridiculous.
I have to agree with you completely Rob. This was a truly wasteful
theory. Who is the amateur clubmaker though?
___,
\o
|
| | | |
Date: 27 Nov 2006 12:02:19
From: Kenn Smith
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
I don't much subscribe to the OP's theory of bogey golf but will admit
that I (in jest) use it on our #1 handicap hole - a par 4 which I am
incapable of reaching without a strong (like 50mph) wind at my back;
can't keep the ball airborne long enough to clear the hazard in front of
the green. So, depending on wind conditions I will tell my playing
partners, "I'm playing this sucker as a par 5 today and hope I can bogey
it."
With a really strong south wind I declare it a par 6 and still hope I
can bogey it. Somehow they refuse to give me a birdy in the skins game
on the rare occasion I par it. What a bunch of soreheads!
|
| | | |
Date: 27 Nov 2006 14:44:15
From:
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
Hi dug,
Great stuff.
Don't forget I managed a 5 under 67 changing four long par fours into
par fives.
The updated score card had 9 par 5's, 5 par 3's and 4 par 4's.
Don't be in any hurry to play level 4's. Leave that stuff to Tiger,
Phil and co.
Awrabest
S.MacD.
dugjustdug wrote:
> I use a slight variation of OP's method.
>
> I look at each Nine as a series of 5's. If I can best that score
> slightly more than half the time, I have broken 80. I need to Par the
> Par 5's, play the 4's pretty well, and, get my strokes on the Par 3's.
> Indirectly, what this has done is substantially reduce my Double
> Bogeys.
>
> The past couple of seasons, I have been a few shots either direction of
> 80 for most of my rounds (after the early season jitters, or course).
> I have no trouble with how he thinks his way through it - if that's
> what he wants to do.
>
> Now, I gotta work up the gumption to look at each Nine as a series of
> 4's...
|
| | | |
Date: 27 Nov 2006 14:32:12
From:
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
I've looked through the rule book and I can't find the bit that says a
14 handicapper should try to par (professional average result) every
hole.
I'm just saying that the psychological issues to playing better golf
could be addressed and if at the end of the day you play better golf
then so be it.
Try it with a good attitude and you'll love the results.
Or don't.
Awrabest
S.MacD.
fiveironisnot@webtv.net wrote:
> "greers" <greers@scfworld.com> wrote in message
> news:1164654926.604143.291600@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > Well the original post made perfect sense to me. I am not talking
> > about keeping official score or playing against others unless they also
> > agree to play with modified rules. I am a total beginner and mostly
> > play alone for practice and it helps your mental focus immensely to
> > realize that par does not really mean average and that a triple bogey
> > on most any hole is a darn good score for any beginner. Forget the
> > nearly impossible par (yes, I know even a beginner will have some rare
> > breakthroughs, but not consistently) and focus on accomplishing triple
> > for a couple years or until you reach consistency, then raise the bar
> > and go for doubles and so on.
> >
>
> Dude, why is this so hard to understand - you gross score is the number of
> strokes you take to hole out on each of the 18 holes.
>
> If you are not "keeping official score" it matters not if you count strokes,
> subtract the phase of the moon, divide by how many times you got laid last
> month, and add 5, or if you call 3 strokes blue, 4 - red, 5 -pink, 6 -
> green, and 7 a pocket full of posies. Or if you want to call gross 90 'PAR'.
> or succotash for that matter. It's just that that is a game of , well,
> greers, I guess. Enjoy.
>
> Me - I play golf. There is a book of rules for it. If you follow them, you
> can objectively judge your own performance against yourself - and any other
> player of golf in the world.
|
| | | | |
Date: 27 Nov 2006 17:48:54
From:
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
<pmchugh@online.de > wrote in message
news:1164666732.290111.120930@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I've looked through the rule book and I can't find the bit that says a
> 14 handicapper should try to par (professional average result) every
> hole.
>
> I'm just saying that the psychological issues to playing better golf
> could be addressed and if at the end of the day you play better golf
> then so be it.
>
> Try it with a good attitude and you'll love the results.
>
> Or don't.
>
> Awrabest
>
> S.MacD.
>
Ah, I see. As I said, head stuff. Not that I discount that - I just deal
with it in a matter of fact and sensible manner.
I play each stroke of every hole to the best of my ability. I don't worry or
get anxious about the stroke I just made, I focus on the one I am going to
make.
When I finish the hole, I write down how many strokes I took.
After I hole out at the last hole, I add up the number of strokes I took
overall.
As to comparing oneself to anyone else - that is most assuredly provided for
by the USGA and the R&A.
But this is getting circular........
Thanks for the strawman argument, though.
|
| | | | |
Date: 27 Nov 2006 16:45:34
From: Aress Gee
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
pmchugh@online.de writes:
> I've looked through the rule book and I can't find the bit that says a
> 14 handicapper should try to par (professional average result) every
> hole.
You also won't find anything in the Rules book that suggests that
par is an acronym for 'professional average result' because
it is not.
--
+++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Mr. People who use golf as some sort of status
Aress symbol are destined to go unfulfilled.
Gee -- Golf's Most Beloved Figure
+++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|
| | | | |
Date: 28 Nov 2006 21:02:38
From: bill-o
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
On 27-Nov-2006, pmchugh@online.de wrote:
> I'm just saying that the psychological issues to playing better golf
> could be addressed and if at the end of the day you play better golf
> then so be it.
>
> Try it with a good attitude and you'll love the results.
Can't argue with this statement. When I go out to have fun I usually do.
--
bill-o
A "gimme" can best be defined as an agreement between
two golfers neither of whom can putt very well.
|
| | | |
Date: 27 Nov 2006 14:08:38
From: dugjustdug
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
I use a slight variation of OP's method.
I look at each Nine as a series of 5's. If I can best that score
slightly more than half the time, I have broken 80. I need to Par the
Par 5's, play the 4's pretty well, and, get my strokes on the Par 3's.
Indirectly, what this has done is substantially reduce my Double
Bogeys.
The past couple of seasons, I have been a few shots either direction of
80 for most of my rounds (after the early season jitters, or course).
I have no trouble with how he thinks his way through it - if that's
what he wants to do.
Now, I gotta work up the gumption to look at each Nine as a series of
4's...
|
| | | | |
Date: 28 Nov 2006 01:04:23
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
On 27 Nov 2006 14:08:38 -0800, "dugjustdug" <prestigerealty@yvn.com >
wrote:
>I look at each Nine as a series of 5's. If I can best that score
>slightly more than half the time, I have broken 80. I need to Par the
>Par 5's, play the 4's pretty well, and, get my strokes on the Par 3's.
>Indirectly, what this has done is substantially reduce my Double
>Bogeys.
However, according to handicap assignments in most courses - bogey
golfers do worse on par 5 holes (compared to par golfers).
The question is - if you score a snowman on hole #2, how does that
change your play on hole #3? Do you try to make it up to get to your
bogey golf? That's not what Dr. Rotella recommends.
|
| | | |
Date: 27 Nov 2006 12:27:14
From:
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
Yes but in bogey golf you are playing the course to your own
capabilities.
I've tried the don't count your shots thing and I can't switch off.
Maybe its me but ...
Awrabest
S.MacD.
Howard Brazee wrote:
> On 27 Nov 2006 11:15:26 -0800, "greers" <greers@scfworld.com> wrote:
>
> >Well the original post made perfect sense to me. I am not talking
> >about keeping official score or playing against others unless they also
> >agree to play with modified rules. I am a total beginner and mostly
> >play alone for practice and it helps your mental focus immensely to
> >realize that par does not really mean average and that a triple bogey
> >on most any hole is a darn good score for any beginner. Forget the
> >nearly impossible par (yes, I know even a beginner will have some rare
> >breakthroughs, but not consistently) and focus on accomplishing triple
> >for a couple years or until you reach consistency, then raise the bar
> >and go for doubles and so on.
>
> However, I have read that we shouldn't think about *any* score, at
> least not in medal play. Having a good forgetter is supposed to be
> quite useful. If I hit my ball into the lake 3 times and then onto
> the fairway, my next shot should be exactly the same as if it was my
> 2nd shot.
>
> This means, I'm not playing for bogey, nor par, nor for triple bogey -
> I'm just playing this shot and setting up my next shot.
>
> Adjusting my strategy to get a particular score applies to bogey golf
> as well as for par golf.
|
| | | |
Date: 27 Nov 2006 12:23:03
From:
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
Well said!
I can see you getting down quite quickly.
Awrabest
S.MacD.
greers wrote:
> Well the original post made perfect sense to me. I am not talking
> about keeping official score or playing against others unless they also
> agree to play with modified rules. I am a total beginner and mostly
> play alone for practice and it helps your mental focus immensely to
> realize that par does not really mean average and that a triple bogey
> on most any hole is a darn good score for any beginner. Forget the
> nearly impossible par (yes, I know even a beginner will have some rare
> breakthroughs, but not consistently) and focus on accomplishing triple
> for a couple years or until you reach consistency, then raise the bar
> and go for doubles and so on.
|
| | | |
Date: 27 Nov 2006 11:15:26
From: greers
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
Well the original post made perfect sense to me. I am not talking
about keeping official score or playing against others unless they also
agree to play with modified rules. I am a total beginner and mostly
play alone for practice and it helps your mental focus immensely to
realize that par does not really mean average and that a triple bogey
on most any hole is a darn good score for any beginner. Forget the
nearly impossible par (yes, I know even a beginner will have some rare
breakthroughs, but not consistently) and focus on accomplishing triple
for a couple years or until you reach consistency, then raise the bar
and go for doubles and so on.
|
| | | | |
Date: 27 Nov 2006 16:48:05
From:
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
"greers" <greers@scfworld.com > wrote in message
news:1164654926.604143.291600@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Well the original post made perfect sense to me. I am not talking
> about keeping official score or playing against others unless they also
> agree to play with modified rules. I am a total beginner and mostly
> play alone for practice and it helps your mental focus immensely to
> realize that par does not really mean average and that a triple bogey
> on most any hole is a darn good score for any beginner. Forget the
> nearly impossible par (yes, I know even a beginner will have some rare
> breakthroughs, but not consistently) and focus on accomplishing triple
> for a couple years or until you reach consistency, then raise the bar
> and go for doubles and so on.
>
Dude, why is this so hard to understand - you gross score is the number of
strokes you take to hole out on each of the 18 holes.
If you are not "keeping official score" it matters not if you count strokes,
subtract the phase of the moon, divide by how many times you got laid last
month, and add 5, or if you call 3 strokes blue, 4 - red, 5 -pink, 6 -
green, and 7 a pocket full of posies. Or if you want to call gross 90 'PAR'.
or succotash for that matter. It's just that that is a game of , well,
greers, I guess. Enjoy.
Me - I play golf. There is a book of rules for it. If you follow them, you
can objectively judge your own performance against yourself - and any other
player of golf in the world.
|
| | | | |
Date: 27 Nov 2006 12:23:27
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
On 27 Nov 2006 11:15:26 -0800, "greers" <greers@scfworld.com > wrote:
>Well the original post made perfect sense to me. I am not talking
>about keeping official score or playing against others unless they also
>agree to play with modified rules. I am a total beginner and mostly
>play alone for practice and it helps your mental focus immensely to
>realize that par does not really mean average and that a triple bogey
>on most any hole is a darn good score for any beginner. Forget the
>nearly impossible par (yes, I know even a beginner will have some rare
>breakthroughs, but not consistently) and focus on accomplishing triple
>for a couple years or until you reach consistency, then raise the bar
>and go for doubles and so on.
However, I have read that we shouldn't think about *any* score, at
least not in medal play. Having a good forgetter is supposed to be
quite useful. If I hit my ball into the lake 3 times and then onto
the fairway, my next shot should be exactly the same as if it was my
2nd shot.
This means, I'm not playing for bogey, nor par, nor for triple bogey -
I'm just playing this shot and setting up my next shot.
Adjusting my strategy to get a particular score applies to bogey golf
as well as for par golf.
|
| |
Date: 27 Nov 2006 07:00:43
From:
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
On Nov 27, 7:10 am, pmch...@online.de wrote:
> What a bunch of miseries we have here on RSG. Get out there and play
> bogey golf as amatures should and you'll get a lot closer to playing
> your best more often.
>
> I don't need anyone to question this theory, I know it works and I have
> already explained why it works. I shot a 67 recently using my version
> of bogey golf...
Dahooood, I didn't know you were talking net score... makes sense now
great bogey golf... (92 - 25 course hcp) = bogey golf = net 67!
> "I'm with you on this one. I keep track of my score relative to
> bogey, not relative to par. I assume that I have three shots to get to
....
> Playing to bogey takes a lot of pressure off my game, and actually
> makes me play better."
>
> On another forum, golfmagic.com, they are also a little more positive
> about other people's articles. One nice reader commented,
(shining, happy, smiley, out-of-context stuff deleted.....)
> Get out and try this and then come back to me with your stupid little
> comments. I think you lot have a cheek and it would be difficult to
> build one brain from a dozen of you half-wits.
I think you'll find that people online anywhere don't particularly care
for being TOLD how to enjoy their hobbies, just as they wouldn't in
person. Search Larry Whitaker, and before you say RSG is a bunch of
oppressives, search him out on GEA as well. I'm sure your "one nice
reader" elsewhere was respoding to a "nicer" post -- not the
pontificating blather you write here with the sole intention of
trolling and NOT helping.
FWIW, I know a few guys that keep score relative to bogey, and it's
nothing more than a benchmark of mediocrity. The antithesis of
Rotella, and unless you're a VERY high handicap, it isn't remotely
useful in helping with course management or game improvement.
|
| |
Date: 27 Nov 2006 04:10:54
From:
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
What a bunch of miseries we have here on RSG. Get out there and play
bogey golf as amatures should and you'll get a lot closer to playing
your best more often.
I don't need anyone to question this theory, I know it works and I have
already explained why it works. I shot a 67 recently using my version
of bogey golf...
>>I play off scratch but always allow myself the priveledge of playing
bogie golf on the four longest par fours. I adopted this long ago in my
amateur days as one of my first improved golf habits. This gives me 8
or 9 holes which are now par 5's and I regard each and every one of
them as good birdie opportunities. >>
Here's a reply to this post from the editor of 'www.golfblogger.com'
who understands quality when he reads it,
"I'm with you on this one. I keep track of my score relative to
bogey, not relative to par. I assume that I have three shots to get to
the green on par 4s. That puts pressure on my putting, but that's by
far the best part of my game. I can generally always two putt, and will
one putt enough to get my score into the 80s.
Playing to bogey takes a lot of pressure off my game, and actually
makes me play better."
On another forum, golfmagic.com, they are also a little more positive
about other people's articles. One nice reader commented,
"Very interesting post and in a way makes a lot of sense, i've been
doing this but only on a few holes on the course, but will try doing it
for all of them now.
Again great idea and can only bring confidence to your game knowing you
got a chance to make a few birdies in a round instead of trying to make
par especially for high handicapper like myself."
Get out and try this and then come back to me with your stupid little
comments. I think you lot have a cheek and it would be difficult to
build one brain from a dozen of you half-wits.
Thanks for listening
S.MacD.
strat68@eudoramail.com wrote:
> pmchugh@online.de wrote:
> > Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
> >
>
> Or troll RSG under various pseudonyms until you get the attention you
> crave, regularly.
>
> (or maybe LLLarry is visting Germany)
|
| | |
Date: 27 Nov 2006 10:18:36
From: Da Ringer.
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
I've shot 65 a few times in my golfing life. I wasn't thinking bogey golf
when I did it.
Da Ringer
<pmchugh@online.de > wrote in message
news:1164629454.207331.278580@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> What a bunch of miseries we have here on RSG. Get out there and play
> bogey golf as amatures should and you'll get a lot closer to playing
> your best more often.
>
> I don't need anyone to question this theory, I know it works and I have
> already explained why it works. I shot a 67 recently using my version
> of bogey golf...
>
>>>I play off scratch but always allow myself the priveledge of playing
> bogie golf on the four longest par fours. I adopted this long ago in my
>
> amateur days as one of my first improved golf habits. This gives me 8
> or 9 holes which are now par 5's and I regard each and every one of
> them as good birdie opportunities.>>
>
> Here's a reply to this post from the editor of 'www.golfblogger.com'
> who understands quality when he reads it,
>
> "I'm with you on this one. I keep track of my score relative to
> bogey, not relative to par. I assume that I have three shots to get to
> the green on par 4s. That puts pressure on my putting, but that's by
> far the best part of my game. I can generally always two putt, and will
> one putt enough to get my score into the 80s.
>
> Playing to bogey takes a lot of pressure off my game, and actually
> makes me play better."
>
> On another forum, golfmagic.com, they are also a little more positive
> about other people's articles. One nice reader commented,
>
> "Very interesting post and in a way makes a lot of sense, i've been
> doing this but only on a few holes on the course, but will try doing it
> for all of them now.
>
> Again great idea and can only bring confidence to your game knowing you
> got a chance to make a few birdies in a round instead of trying to make
> par especially for high handicapper like myself."
>
> Get out and try this and then come back to me with your stupid little
> comments. I think you lot have a cheek and it would be difficult to
> build one brain from a dozen of you half-wits.
>
> Thanks for listening
>
> S.MacD.
>
>
> strat68@eudoramail.com wrote:
>> pmchugh@online.de wrote:
>> > Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
>> >
>>
>> Or troll RSG under various pseudonyms until you get the attention you
>> crave, regularly.
>>
>> (or maybe LLLarry is visting Germany)
>
|
| | |
Date: 27 Nov 2006 09:23:51
From:
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
<pmchugh@online.de > wrote in message
news:1164629454.207331.278580@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> What a bunch of miseries we have here on RSG. Get out there and play
> bogey golf as amatures should and you'll get a lot closer to playing
> your best more often.
>
> I don't need anyone to question this theory, I know it works and I have
> already explained why it works. I shot a 67 recently using my version
> of bogey golf...
>
>>>I play off scratch but always allow myself the priveledge of playing
> bogie golf on the four longest par fours. I adopted this long ago in my
>
> amateur days as one of my first improved golf habits. This gives me 8
> or 9 holes which are now par 5's and I regard each and every one of
> them as good birdie opportunities.>>
>
> Here's a reply to this post from the editor of 'www.golfblogger.com'
> who understands quality when he reads it,
>
> "I'm with you on this one. I keep track of my score relative to
> bogey, not relative to par. I assume that I have three shots to get to
> the green on par 4s. That puts pressure on my putting, but that's by
> far the best part of my game. I can generally always two putt, and will
> one putt enough to get my score into the 80s.
>
> Playing to bogey takes a lot of pressure off my game, and actually
> makes me play better."
>
> On another forum, golfmagic.com, they are also a little more positive
> about other people's articles. One nice reader commented,
>
> "Very interesting post and in a way makes a lot of sense, i've been
> doing this but only on a few holes on the course, but will try doing it
> for all of them now.
>
> Again great idea and can only bring confidence to your game knowing you
> got a chance to make a few birdies in a round instead of trying to make
> par especially for high handicapper like myself."
>
> Get out and try this and then come back to me with your stupid little
> comments. I think you lot have a cheek and it would be difficult to
> build one brain from a dozen of you half-wits.
>
> Thanks for listening
>
> S.MacD.
>
Even <we > prefer to play golf - not peeemchug, or whatever your bullshit
mobius definition of the game is.
The goal of the game is to hole out with the fewest number of strokes - 18
times.
Each hole - the minimum number of strokes.
If you need psycho-babble to avoid loosening your bowels each time your
number of strokes exceeds some number on a card, I'm sure you need a lot of
help getting through other aspects of life as well.
|
| | |
Date: 27 Nov 2006 12:56:42
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
On 27 Nov 2006 04:10:54 -0800, pmchugh@online.de wrote:
>What a bunch of miseries we have here on RSG. Get out there and play
>bogey golf as amatures should and you'll get a lot closer to playing
>your best more often.
>
>I don't need anyone to question this theory, I know it works and I have
>already explained why it works. I shot a 67 recently using my version
>of bogey golf...
When I asked how one does this, I didn't ask to satisfy your needs. I
asked because it isn't at all obvious what I do different between
playing bogey golf, par golf, or simply playing my next shot.
I suspect you aren't saying that if I triple one hole, I need to
birdie the next.
|
| |
Date: 27 Nov 2006 19:09:46
From:
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
Dave Lee wrote:
> <pmchugh@online.de> wrote in message
> news:1164658469.168848.195840@45g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Da Ringer. wrote:
> > > I've shot 65 a few times in my golfing life. I wasn't thinking bogey
> golf
> > > when I did it.
> > >
> > > Da Ringer
> >
> > Da Da,
> >
> > You are another one who didn't read my post properly.
> >
> > Get the facts and then criticise.
> >
> > Awrabest
> >
> > S.MacD.
> >
>
> Mindset is fine, but what really matters is the decisions that are made.
>
> honestly don't see a lot of shots being thrown away with bad decisions. And
> a mindset of "this hole is a par 5 for me" is more the norm than unusual (at
> least for those golfers on those holes where par 4 is unlikely).
It's reasonable to do that on difficult holes or if you already have an
error (bad drive etc.) and salvaging a bogey is more viable than a
heroic par attempt which could end up a triple.
Maybe it's a language barrier, but I still think there's a high degree
of probability that this guy is shitting us. Walks in, no checking his
arrogance etc, dictating procedure.. sounds like a Larry imitator to
me. It doesn't seem like the M.O. of most good players.
|
| |
Date: 27 Nov 2006 14:50:35
From: Don Kirkman
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
It seems to me I heard somewhere that pmchugh@online.de wrote in article
<1164576544.544349.211860@14g2000cws.googlegroups.com >:
>Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
I don't quite follow this. On most courses par 72 plus 18 bogeys = 90.
How do the other ten strokes get saved to break 80? Or do you mean
breaking *into* the 80s?
--
Don Kirkman
|
| |
Date: 27 Nov 2006 12:32:03
From: The_Professor
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
Bobby Knight wrote:
> On 27 Nov 2006 08:37:13 -0800, "The_Professor" <dbid@att.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >pmchugh@online.de wrote:
> >
> >> What a bunch of miseries we have here on RSG. Get out there and play
> >> bogey golf as amatures should and you'll get a lot closer to playing
> >> your best more often.
> >>
> >> I don't need anyone to question this theory, I know it works and I have
> >> already explained why it works. I shot a 67 recently using my version
> >> of bogey golf...
> >>
> >
> >What a load O' rubbish. If you don't want to discuss your speculations,
> >then stay away from *DISCUSSION* boards. We have an amateur clubmaker
> >here who thinks just like you though...right about everything...the
> >only people who know anything about anything are those who agree with
> >you!
> >
> >I think we all here know our games well enough, and how we get
> >enjoyment out of the game, what impedes that enjoyment, and when we
> >play well. We can discuss that with you or anyone else, but the fancy
> >that you can dictate to me or anyone else how we enjoy the game or what
> >we can do to get the best out of our game is ridiculous.
>
> I have to agree with you completely Rob. This was a truly wasteful
> theory. Who is the amateur clubmaker though?
....Peter Strauss, of course! Disagree with him and you get cussed out
and put into his killfile! Who else could it possibly be?!
;^)
|
| | |
Date: 27 Nov 2006 14:52:24
From: Bobby Knight
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
On 27 Nov 2006 12:32:03 -0800, "The_Professor" <dbid@att.net > wrote:
>
>Bobby Knight wrote:
>> On 27 Nov 2006 08:37:13 -0800, "The_Professor" <dbid@att.net> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >pmchugh@online.de wrote:
>> >
>> >> What a bunch of miseries we have here on RSG. Get out there and play
>> >> bogey golf as amatures should and you'll get a lot closer to playing
>> >> your best more often.
>> >>
>> >> I don't need anyone to question this theory, I know it works and I have
>> >> already explained why it works. I shot a 67 recently using my version
>> >> of bogey golf...
>> >>
>> >
>> >What a load O' rubbish. If you don't want to discuss your speculations,
>> >then stay away from *DISCUSSION* boards. We have an amateur clubmaker
>> >here who thinks just like you though...right about everything...the
>> >only people who know anything about anything are those who agree with
>> >you!
>> >
>> >I think we all here know our games well enough, and how we get
>> >enjoyment out of the game, what impedes that enjoyment, and when we
>> >play well. We can discuss that with you or anyone else, but the fancy
>> >that you can dictate to me or anyone else how we enjoy the game or what
>> >we can do to get the best out of our game is ridiculous.
>>
>> I have to agree with you completely Rob. This was a truly wasteful
>> theory. Who is the amateur clubmaker though?
>
>....Peter Strauss, of course! Disagree with him and you get cussed out
>and put into his killfile! Who else could it possibly be?!
>
>;^)
Nah. Peter is a pussycat.
___,
\o
|
| |
Date: 27 Nov 2006 12:19:00
From:
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
I can only say one thing to a nutter like you.
It's nice to be nice.
The_NUTTY_ Professor
The_NUTTY_ Professor
The_NUTTY_ Professor
The_NUTTY_ Professor
The_NUTTY_ Professor
The_NUTTY_ Professor
The_NUTTY_ Professor
The_NUTTY_ Professor
The_NUTTY_ Professor wrote:
> pmchugh@online.de wrote:
>
> > What a bunch of miseries we have here on RSG. Get out there and play
> > bogey golf as amatures should and you'll get a lot closer to playing
> > your best more often.
> >
> > I don't need anyone to question this theory, I know it works and I have
> > already explained why it works. I shot a 67 recently using my version
> > of bogey golf...
> >
>
> What a load O' rubbish. If you don't want to discuss your speculations,
> then stay away from *DISCUSSION* boards. We have an amateur clubmaker
> here who thinks just like you though...right about everything...the
> only people who know anything about anything are those who agree with
> you!
>
> I think we all here know our games well enough, and how we get
> enjoyment out of the game, what impedes that enjoyment, and when we
> play well. We can discuss that with you or anyone else, but the fancy
> that you can dictate to me or anyone else how we enjoy the game or what
> we can do to get the best out of our game is ridiculous.
|
| |
Date: 27 Nov 2006 12:14:29
From:
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
Da Ringer. wrote:
> I've shot 65 a few times in my golfing life. I wasn't thinking bogey golf
> when I did it.
>
> Da Ringer
Da Da,
You are another one who didn't read my post properly.
Get the facts and then criticise.
Awrabest
S.MacD.
>
>
>
>
> <pmchugh@online.de> wrote in message
> news:1164629454.207331.278580@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> > What a bunch of miseries we have here on RSG. Get out there and play
> > bogey golf as amatures should and you'll get a lot closer to playing
> > your best more often.
> >
> > I don't need anyone to question this theory, I know it works and I have
> > already explained why it works. I shot a 67 recently using my version
> > of bogey golf...
> >
> >>>I play off scratch but always allow myself the priveledge of playing
> > bogie golf on the four longest par fours. I adopted this long ago in my
> >
> > amateur days as one of my first improved golf habits. This gives me 8
> > or 9 holes which are now par 5's and I regard each and every one of
> > them as good birdie opportunities.>>
> >
> > Here's a reply to this post from the editor of 'www.golfblogger.com'
> > who understands quality when he reads it,
> >
> > "I'm with you on this one. I keep track of my score relative to
> > bogey, not relative to par. I assume that I have three shots to get to
> > the green on par 4s. That puts pressure on my putting, but that's by
> > far the best part of my game. I can generally always two putt, and will
> > one putt enough to get my score into the 80s.
> >
> > Playing to bogey takes a lot of pressure off my game, and actually
> > makes me play better."
> >
> > On another forum, golfmagic.com, they are also a little more positive
> > about other people's articles. One nice reader commented,
> >
> > "Very interesting post and in a way makes a lot of sense, i've been
> > doing this but only on a few holes on the course, but will try doing it
> > for all of them now.
> >
> > Again great idea and can only bring confidence to your game knowing you
> > got a chance to make a few birdies in a round instead of trying to make
> > par especially for high handicapper like myself."
> >
> > Get out and try this and then come back to me with your stupid little
> > comments. I think you lot have a cheek and it would be difficult to
> > build one brain from a dozen of you half-wits.
> >
> > Thanks for listening
> >
> > S.MacD.
> >
> >
> > strat68@eudoramail.com wrote:
> >> pmchugh@online.de wrote:
> >> > Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Or troll RSG under various pseudonyms until you get the attention you
> >> crave, regularly.
> >>
> >> (or maybe LLLarry is visting Germany)
> >
|
| | |
Date: 27 Nov 2006 22:23:01
From: bill-o
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
On 27-Nov-2006, pmchugh@online.de wrote:
> Da Da,
>
> You are another one who didn't read my post properly.
If no one is "reading your post right" then I would argue that it is you
that has not correctly expressed yourself.
I think Howard's question is quite valid, other than call everything a par 5
(I'm currently playing off 13), what would I do differently?
Take less club off the tee, instead of going for the green, go for a easy
chipping spot, shoot for the center of the green instead of the pin?
You play off scratch which means to me that you have fewer execution probs
than I do and this is where most of my shots are dropped.
Stra-tee-gery is not a problem with my game, except perhaps on occasion,
executing my plan is.
--
bill-o
A "gimme" can best be defined as an agreement between
two golfers neither of whom can putt very well.
|
| | |
Date: 27 Nov 2006 22:14:17
From: Dave Lee
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
<pmchugh@online.de > wrote in message
news:1164658469.168848.195840@45g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
>
> Da Ringer. wrote:
> > I've shot 65 a few times in my golfing life. I wasn't thinking bogey
golf
> > when I did it.
> >
> > Da Ringer
>
> Da Da,
>
> You are another one who didn't read my post properly.
>
> Get the facts and then criticise.
>
> Awrabest
>
> S.MacD.
>
Mindset is fine, but what really matters is the decisions that are made.
I play with a very mixed bag of golfers (play regularly with maybe 30
different guys with handicaps ranging from 2 to 25). Maybe this group is not
the norm out there - possible as the average age is probably mid-60's. But I
honestly don't see a lot of shots being thrown away with bad decisions. And
a mindset of "this hole is a par 5 for me" is more the norm than unusual (at
least for those golfers on those holes where par 4 is unlikely).
Like I said most of the guys I play with play against their own capability,
whatever that is. And they do it "naturally".
dave
|
| |
Date: 27 Nov 2006 12:12:12
From: oconnell@slr.orl.lmco.com
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
strat68@eudoramail.com wrote:
> On Nov 27, 7:10 am, pmch...@online.de wrote:
[snip]
> > I don't need anyone to question this theory, I know it works and I have
> > already explained why it works. I shot a 67 recently using my version
> > of bogey golf...
>
>
> Dahooood, I didn't know you were talking net score... makes sense now
> great bogey golf... (92 - 25 course hcp) = bogey golf = net 67!
>
>
> > "I'm with you on this one. I keep track of my score relative to
> > bogey, not relative to par. I assume that I have three shots to get to
> ....
> > Playing to bogey takes a lot of pressure off my game, and actually
> > makes me play better."
> >
[snip]
[snip]
> FWIW, I know a few guys that keep score relative to bogey, and it's
> nothing more than a benchmark of mediocrity. The antithesis of
> Rotella, and unless you're a VERY high handicap, it isn't remotely
> useful in helping with course management or game improvement.
I've been known to keep something of an "under over" score. I
have a score I "expect" to score on each. If I shoot that number,
I "tie" the course. If I beat it I "win". Obviously I "lose" if I
shoot
over that score. I do sort of a match play counting of the round.
I still keep a total score but it has been interesting to see myself
"winning" more holes, even while my gross score didn't seem to
be changing much. Basically I was beginning to put together
more sets of good strokes but not necessarily on every hole.
|
| | |
Date: 27 Nov 2006 13:19:26
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
On 27 Nov 2006 12:12:12 -0800, "oconnell@slr.orl.lmco.com"
<oconnell@slr.orl.lmco.com > wrote:
> I've been known to keep something of an "under over" score. I
>have a score I "expect" to score on each. If I shoot that number,
>I "tie" the course. If I beat it I "win". Obviously I "lose" if I
>shoot over that score.
When I am playing a round against myself, I often do match play
against my handicap.
This is similar to playing bogey golf for bogey players.
|
| |
Date: 27 Nov 2006 12:11:38
From:
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
If you would read my post properly you would know that I play off
scratch.
Read this link where my score is recorded:
http://www.golf.de/publish/turniere/scorecard.cfm?lDSIDSYS=1_15834520&anzrunde=1
>I know a few guys that keep score relative to bogey, and it's
> nothing more than a benchmark of mediocrity. The antithesis of
> Rotella, and unless you're a VERY high handicap, it isn't remotely
> useful in helping with course management or game improvement.
Just try it...
Please
Awrabest
S.MacD.
strat68@eudoramail.com wrote:
> On Nov 27, 7:10 am, pmch...@online.de wrote:
> > What a bunch of miseries we have here on RSG. Get out there and play
> > bogey golf as amatures should and you'll get a lot closer to playing
> > your best more often.
> >
> > I don't need anyone to question this theory, I know it works and I have
> > already explained why it works. I shot a 67 recently using my version
> > of bogey golf...
>
>
> Dahooood, I didn't know you were talking net score... makes sense now
> great bogey golf... (92 - 25 course hcp) = bogey golf = net 67!
>
>
> > "I'm with you on this one. I keep track of my score relative to
> > bogey, not relative to par. I assume that I have three shots to get to
> ....
> > Playing to bogey takes a lot of pressure off my game, and actually
> > makes me play better."
> >
> > On another forum, golfmagic.com, they are also a little more positive
> > about other people's articles. One nice reader commented,
>
>
> (shining, happy, smiley, out-of-context stuff deleted.....)
>
>
> > Get out and try this and then come back to me with your stupid little
> > comments. I think you lot have a cheek and it would be difficult to
> > build one brain from a dozen of you half-wits.
>
> I think you'll find that people online anywhere don't particularly care
> for being TOLD how to enjoy their hobbies, just as they wouldn't in
> person. Search Larry Whitaker, and before you say RSG is a bunch of
> oppressives, search him out on GEA as well. I'm sure your "one nice
> reader" elsewhere was respoding to a "nicer" post -- not the
> pontificating blather you write here with the sole intention of
> trolling and NOT helping.
>
> FWIW, I know a few guys that keep score relative to bogey, and it's
> nothing more than a benchmark of mediocrity. The antithesis of
> Rotella, and unless you're a VERY high handicap, it isn't remotely
> useful in helping with course management or game improvement.
|
| |
Date: 27 Nov 2006 12:00:20
From:
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
Mr fiveiron,
you're needing to wear a five iron round your head.
I shot a five under 67 using this technique.
I call that shooting low.
Awrabest
S.MacD.
fiveironisnot@webtv.net wrote:
> <pmchugh@online.de> wrote in message
> news:1164629454.207331.278580@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> > What a bunch of miseries we have here on RSG. Get out there and play
> > bogey golf as amatures should and you'll get a lot closer to playing
> > your best more often.
> >
> > I don't need anyone to question this theory, I know it works and I have
> > already explained why it works. I shot a 67 recently using my version
> > of bogey golf...
> >
> >>>I play off scratch but always allow myself the priveledge of playing
> > bogie golf on the four longest par fours. I adopted this long ago in my
> >
> > amateur days as one of my first improved golf habits. This gives me 8
> > or 9 holes which are now par 5's and I regard each and every one of
> > them as good birdie opportunities.>>
> >
> > Here's a reply to this post from the editor of 'www.golfblogger.com'
> > who understands quality when he reads it,
> >
> > "I'm with you on this one. I keep track of my score relative to
> > bogey, not relative to par. I assume that I have three shots to get to
> > the green on par 4s. That puts pressure on my putting, but that's by
> > far the best part of my game. I can generally always two putt, and will
> > one putt enough to get my score into the 80s.
> >
> > Playing to bogey takes a lot of pressure off my game, and actually
> > makes me play better."
> >
> > On another forum, golfmagic.com, they are also a little more positive
> > about other people's articles. One nice reader commented,
> >
> > "Very interesting post and in a way makes a lot of sense, i've been
> > doing this but only on a few holes on the course, but will try doing it
> > for all of them now.
> >
> > Again great idea and can only bring confidence to your game knowing you
> > got a chance to make a few birdies in a round instead of trying to make
> > par especially for high handicapper like myself."
> >
> > Get out and try this and then come back to me with your stupid little
> > comments. I think you lot have a cheek and it would be difficult to
> > build one brain from a dozen of you half-wits.
> >
> > Thanks for listening
> >
> > S.MacD.
> >
> Even <we> prefer to play golf - not peeemchug, or whatever your bullshit
> mobius definition of the game is.
>
> The goal of the game is to hole out with the fewest number of strokes - 18
> times.
> Each hole - the minimum number of strokes.
>
> If you need psycho-babble to avoid loosening your bowels each time your
> number of strokes exceeds some number on a card, I'm sure you need a lot of
> help getting through other aspects of life as well.
|
| | |
Date: 28 Nov 2006 00:58:04
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
On 27 Nov 2006 12:00:20 -0800, pmchugh@online.de wrote:
>I shot a five under 67 using this technique.
By trying to hit 90?
|
| | | |
Date: 28 Nov 2006 04:06:23
From: S McFarlane
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
"Howard Brazee" <howard@brazee.net > wrote in message
news:7g2nm29gfibn83r887jgojv8ruus8p60ft@4ax.com...
>>I shot a five under 67 using this technique.
>
> By trying to hit 90?
He's not saying try to hit 90. The whole bit comes down to the inner game.
It's just a way of creating a more positive flow by matching expectations to
capabilities. Most players can score at least bogey most of the time. If
that's your version of par, than a bogey doesn't have any negative
connotations, and a par will feel more like a birdie.
It has nothing to do with course management. For example, you would never
settle with a 5-iron off the tee because you only need to reach that 370
yard Par 5 in three.
I agree that doing this should not be the goal from an inner game
perspective. The goal should be to completely isolate each shot from all
others and focus on only the shot at hand. That is a difficult thing to
accomplish.
Bottom line: if it helps a relative beginner to better manage the mental
side of golf, then why not use it? If a particular golfer doesn't find it
helpful, then good for him. He'll find his own ways of dealing with that
aspect of the game.
Scott
|
| | | | |
Date: 28 Nov 2006 21:05:49
From: bill-o
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
On 27-Nov-2006, "S McFarlane" <spam@nothanks.com > wrote:
> He's not saying try to hit 90. The whole bit comes down to the inner
> game. It's just a way of creating a more positive flow by matching
> expectations
> to capabilities. Most players can score at least bogey most of the time.
> If
> that's your version of par, than a bogey doesn't have any negative
> connotations, and a par will feel more like a birdie.
Excellent thoughts.
--
bill-o
A "gimme" can best be defined as an agreement between
two golfers neither of whom can putt very well.
|
| | |
Date: 27 Nov 2006 16:38:45
From:
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
As I said, while you are playing peemchug, or whatever , you can keep score
however you want.
Fiction is fiction, right?
As to a me needing an iron around my head, may I suggest inserting your
forefinger into your eye-socket, up to the second knuckle?
There you go, now wiggle it around good, and say good-bye to your anxieties
<pmchugh@online.de > wrote in message
news:1164657620.250657.157370@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Mr fiveiron,
>
> you're needing to wear a five iron round your head.
>
> I shot a five under 67 using this technique.
>
> I call that shooting low.
>
> Awrabest
>
> S.MacD.
>
>
As I said, while you are playing peemchug, or whatever , you can keep score
however you want.
Fiction is fiction, right? Bogey golf on a Par 72 is 90, not 67. Oh, unless
it's the peemchug scoring system, I guess.
As to a me needing an iron around my head, may I suggest inserting your
forefinger into your eye-socket, up to the second knuckle?
There you go, now wiggle it around good, and say good-bye to your anxieties
|
| |
Date: 27 Nov 2006 11:56:04
From:
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
Howard,
lets say your handicap is 14 for simplicity.
You would automatically call every hole a par 5 and count all the way
reckoning your performance to level 5's.
I do explain this in the opening post.
If you want you can send me a copy of your scorecard with your current
handicap and I will break it down for you.
Awrabest
S.MacD.
Howard Brazee wrote:
> On 27 Nov 2006 04:10:54 -0800, pmchugh@online.de wrote:
>
> >What a bunch of miseries we have here on RSG. Get out there and play
> >bogey golf as amatures should and you'll get a lot closer to playing
> >your best more often.
> >
> >I don't need anyone to question this theory, I know it works and I have
> >already explained why it works. I shot a 67 recently using my version
> >of bogey golf...
>
> When I asked how one does this, I didn't ask to satisfy your needs. I
> asked because it isn't at all obvious what I do different between
> playing bogey golf, par golf, or simply playing my next shot.
>
> I suspect you aren't saying that if I triple one hole, I need to
> birdie the next.
|
| | |
Date: 27 Nov 2006 13:27:54
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
On 27 Nov 2006 11:56:04 -0800, pmchugh@online.de wrote:
>Howard,
>
>lets say your handicap is 14 for simplicity.
>
>You would automatically call every hole a par 5 and count all the way
>reckoning your performance to level 5's.
>
>I do explain this in the opening post.
>
>If you want you can send me a copy of your scorecard with your current
>handicap and I will break it down for you.
>
>Awrabest
I understand what you said above. My responses have been in what I
actually should *do* differently.
It's kind of like when a Tour changes a course from par 72 to par 70.
Do the players change how they swing the club? Do they change
whether they decide to go for the green? The course hasn't changed.
If I am playing a hole that is marked as par-4 and I use your
recommendation to call it a par-5. My landing area is near the 150
yard marker either way. I hit my next shot with my 7I either way.
What do I do different?
Alternatively, many people teach that I should not pay attention to my
score at all. I see my ball at the 150 yard marker - it doesn't
matter how many strokes I took to get there, I need to think about the
best way to get in the hole from where the ball is now. Par doesn't
matter. Bogey doesn't matter. Forget my past strokes, and only do
the current shot to put me in the best position for my next shot.
|
| |
Date: 28 Nov 2006 09:34:45
From: The_Professor
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
Bear wrote:
>
> Still don't get the point.
>
> There are holes around here that we call "and a half" holes. One a par
> 3 that is 227 yards into the wind with bunkers all around it. It
> really is a par 3 and a half because 3 is a good score and 4 won't
> kill ya. There is another that is a par 4 which is also a par 3 and a
> half. 240 yards slightly uphill with a pond on the right front.
> Doesn't matter you aim for the left side of the green and blast away.
> Eagles are possible (3 for me so far here) and 3 is the good score 4
> won't hurt you (up and down from the pond) but a 5 feels like your
> throwin' strokes away.
>
> In the end we total up the scores and compare them to each other and
> what we expect from our selves at the course. I doubt I could get
> worked up about being 5 under bogey... yehaw.
>
IMHO, any time you start getting anal about a specific score, you are
asking for trouble. One sure thing about my game is that I hit bad
shots in clusters and I hit really good shots in clusters. If I hit a
bad shot, I am more likely to get conservative, and just keep the ball
in play rather than gamble trying to make a bogie. OTOH, I might get
aggressive and go for a birdie if I hit a few good shots in a row.
Maximizing the good shots and minimizing the effects of the bad shots
is key. I am not going to gamble on a par 3 after chunking a ball into
a water hazard to try to save the bogie...I'll take the 6...beats doing
it again and looking at an 8!
|
| |
Date: 28 Nov 2006 04:17:22
From:
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
Hi bill-o,
Don't do anything different just play bogey golf and score the course
that way. First nine 2 under 5's, second nine 3 under 5's, total 85.
You'll get the idea after a few holes.
Awrabest
S.MacD.
bill-o wrote:
> On 27-Nov-2006, pmchugh@online.de wrote:
>
> > Da Da,
> >
> > You are another one who didn't read my post properly.
>
> If no one is "reading your post right" then I would argue that it is you
> that has not correctly expressed yourself.
> I think Howard's question is quite valid, other than call everything a par 5
> (I'm currently playing off 13), what would I do differently?
> Take less club off the tee, instead of going for the green, go for a easy
> chipping spot, shoot for the center of the green instead of the pin?
> You play off scratch which means to me that you have fewer execution probs
> than I do and this is where most of my shots are dropped.
> Stra-tee-gery is not a problem with my game, except perhaps on occasion,
> executing my plan is.
>
> --
> bill-o
>
> A "gimme" can best be defined as an agreement between
> two golfers neither of whom can putt very well.
|
| | |
Date: 28 Nov 2006 17:15:49
From: Bear
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
On 28 Nov 2006 04:17:22 -0800, pmchugh@online.de wrote:
>Hi bill-o,
>
>Don't do anything different just play bogey golf and score the course
>that way. First nine 2 under 5's, second nine 3 under 5's, total 85.
>You'll get the idea after a few holes.
I really don't get the point of this. Your score is still an 85 if you
want to call it 5 under go right ahead.
When I mark a number on my scorecard I don't mark it in relation to
par I just put down the number of strokes it took to get the ball in
the hole. When I compare the number to my playing partners I give them
the total number of strokes it took to get the ball into all 18 holes.
whether that is 13 over par, 5 under bogey golf or 23 under double
bogey golf doesn't make a difference.
>
>Awrabest
>
>S.MacD.
>
>
>bill-o wrote:
>> On 27-Nov-2006, pmchugh@online.de wrote:
>>
>> > Da Da,
>> >
>> > You are another one who didn't read my post properly.
>>
>> If no one is "reading your post right" then I would argue that it is you
>> that has not correctly expressed yourself.
>> I think Howard's question is quite valid, other than call everything a par 5
>> (I'm currently playing off 13), what would I do differently?
>> Take less club off the tee, instead of going for the green, go for a easy
>> chipping spot, shoot for the center of the green instead of the pin?
>> You play off scratch which means to me that you have fewer execution probs
>> than I do and this is where most of my shots are dropped.
>> Stra-tee-gery is not a problem with my game, except perhaps on occasion,
>> executing my plan is.
>>
>> --
>> bill-o
>>
>> A "gimme" can best be defined as an agreement between
>> two golfers neither of whom can putt very well.
|
| | | |
Date: 28 Nov 2006 11:05:57
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 17:15:49 GMT, Bear <bearlysane@XShawX.ca > wrote:
>I really don't get the point of this. Your score is still an 85 if you
>want to call it 5 under go right ahead.
>
>When I mark a number on my scorecard I don't mark it in relation to
>par I just put down the number of strokes it took to get the ball in
>the hole. When I compare the number to my playing partners I give them
>the total number of strokes it took to get the ball into all 18 holes.
>whether that is 13 over par, 5 under bogey golf or 23 under double
>bogey golf doesn't make a difference.
And didn't it feel great the first time you broke 100? It sure did
for me.
And when you play a real tough course, do you adjust your expectations
about what a good round is - compared to a familiar easy course? I
do.
But those expectations are for the round. Rotella says when I'm
playing my ball right now, I shouldn't be thinking about the round,
nor par, and especially not my previous hot. I believe him.
|
| | | | |
Date: 29 Nov 2006 01:01:51
From: S McFarlane
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
"Howard Brazee" <howard@brazee.net > wrote in message
news:oeuom21j0bh8t8brccklgmp7ptplj7qmt8@4ax.com...
>
> But those expectations are for the round. Rotella says when I'm
> playing my ball right now, I shouldn't be thinking about the round,
> nor par, and especially not my previous hot. I believe him.
Me, too. I think that should be the ultimate goal.
Scott
|
| | | | |
Date: 29 Nov 2006 15:41:26
From: Bear
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 11:05:57 -0700, Howard Brazee <howard@brazee.net >
wrote:
>On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 17:15:49 GMT, Bear <bearlysane@XShawX.ca> wrote:
>
>>I really don't get the point of this. Your score is still an 85 if you
>>want to call it 5 under go right ahead.
>>
>>When I mark a number on my scorecard I don't mark it in relation to
>>par I just put down the number of strokes it took to get the ball in
>>the hole. When I compare the number to my playing partners I give them
>>the total number of strokes it took to get the ball into all 18 holes.
>>whether that is 13 over par, 5 under bogey golf or 23 under double
>>bogey golf doesn't make a difference.
>
>And didn't it feel great the first time you broke 100? It sure did
>for me.
It felt great as did the first time under 90 and 80.
>And when you play a real tough course, do you adjust your expectations
>about what a good round is - compared to a familiar easy course? I
>do.
Of course it would be silly not to. I just don't see what the point of
"play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly". Play each shot
for what it is worth and count them up at the end. The scores
relationship to par or bogey or.... just doesn't really matter.
>
>But those expectations are for the round. Rotella says when I'm
>playing my ball right now, I shouldn't be thinking about the round,
>nor par, and especially not my previous hot. I believe him.
Exactly.
|
| |
Date: 28 Nov 2006 04:03:16
From:
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
Howard,
If you are not going to count your score then bogey golf is not the way
to go. The philosophy behind this is explained in the OP.
e.g. par (professional average result) is for Tiger and co.
Try bogey golf it works great if you want to lower your scores.
Awrabest
S.MacD.
Howard Brazee wrote:
> On 27 Nov 2006 11:56:04 -0800, pmchugh@online.de wrote:
>
> >Howard,
> >
> >lets say your handicap is 14 for simplicity.
> >
> >You would automatically call every hole a par 5 and count all the way
> >reckoning your performance to level 5's.
> >
> >I do explain this in the opening post.
> >
> >If you want you can send me a copy of your scorecard with your current
> >handicap and I will break it down for you.
> >
> >Awrabest
>
> I understand what you said above. My responses have been in what I
> actually should *do* differently.
>
> It's kind of like when a Tour changes a course from par 72 to par 70.
> Do the players change how they swing the club? Do they change
> whether they decide to go for the green? The course hasn't changed.
>
> If I am playing a hole that is marked as par-4 and I use your
> recommendation to call it a par-5. My landing area is near the 150
> yard marker either way. I hit my next shot with my 7I either way.
> What do I do different?
>
> Alternatively, many people teach that I should not pay attention to my
> score at all. I see my ball at the 150 yard marker - it doesn't
> matter how many strokes I took to get there, I need to think about the
> best way to get in the hole from where the ball is now. Par doesn't
> matter. Bogey doesn't matter. Forget my past strokes, and only do
> the current shot to put me in the best position for my next shot.
|
| |
Date: 28 Nov 2006 03:51:24
From:
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
Don,
Read through my OP again. I said play bogey golf until you can break 80
regularly. if your handicap is under 14 then there is a variant of
bogey golf that I advise. Don't forget, I play scratch golf but allow
myself bogey on four long par 4's.
I hope I have cleared that up a little for you.
Awrabest
S.MacD.
Don Kirkman wrote:
> It seems to me I heard somewhere that pmchugh@online.de wrote in article
> <1164576544.544349.211860@14g2000cws.googlegroups.com>:
>
> >Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
>
> I don't quite follow this. On most courses par 72 plus 18 bogeys = 90.
> How do the other ten strokes get saved to break 80? Or do you mean
> breaking *into* the 80s?
> --
> Don Kirkman
|
| | |
Date: 28 Nov 2006 17:25:25
From: Bear
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
On 28 Nov 2006 03:51:24 -0800, pmchugh@online.de wrote:
>Don,
>
>Read through my OP again. I said play bogey golf until you can break 80
>regularly. if your handicap is under 14 then there is a variant of
>bogey golf that I advise. Don't forget, I play scratch golf but allow
>myself bogey on four long par 4's.
>
>I hope I have cleared that up a little for you.
Still don't get the point.
There are holes around here that we call "and a half" holes. One a par
3 that is 227 yards into the wind with bunkers all around it. It
really is a par 3 and a half because 3 is a good score and 4 won't
kill ya. There is another that is a par 4 which is also a par 3 and a
half. 240 yards slightly uphill with a pond on the right front.
Doesn't matter you aim for the left side of the green and blast away.
Eagles are possible (3 for me so far here) and 3 is the good score 4
won't hurt you (up and down from the pond) but a 5 feels like your
throwin' strokes away.
In the end we total up the scores and compare them to each other and
what we expect from our selves at the course. I doubt I could get
worked up about being 5 under bogey... yehaw.
>
>Awrabest
>
>S.MacD.
>
>Don Kirkman wrote:
>> It seems to me I heard somewhere that pmchugh@online.de wrote in article
>> <1164576544.544349.211860@14g2000cws.googlegroups.com>:
>>
>> >Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
>>
>> I don't quite follow this. On most courses par 72 plus 18 bogeys = 90.
>> How do the other ten strokes get saved to break 80? Or do you mean
>> breaking *into* the 80s?
>> --
>> Don Kirkman
|
| | |
Date: 28 Nov 2006 14:37:40
From: Don Kirkman
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
It seems to me I heard somewhere that pmchugh@online.de wrote in article
<1164714684.792504.97020@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com >:
>Read through my OP again. I said play bogey golf until you can break 80
>regularly. if your handicap is under 14 then there is a variant of
>bogey golf that I advise. Don't forget, I play scratch golf but allow
>myself bogey on four long par 4's.
>I hope I have cleared that up a little for you.
Read through my question again. Bogey golf is by definition a 90 on a
par-72 course. If you break 80 you're 10+ strokes below bogey golf.
If your point is that as a matter of course management high and mid
handicappers should not expect to make par on most holes, not a problem,
but that has little or nothing to do with bogey golf as it's
traditionally been defined.
>Don Kirkman wrote:
>
>> I don't quite follow this. On most courses par 72 plus 18 bogeys = 90.
>> How do the other ten strokes get saved to break 80? Or do you mean
>> breaking *into* the 80s?
--
Don Kirkman
|
| |
Date: 28 Nov 2006 16:01:58
From:
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
strat68@eudoramail.com wrote:
> On Nov 28, 3:44 pm, curtjest...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > Stay on the range til you can break 70! Why spoil a good walk?
> >
>
> my back starts to wear down after about 55....
Chumpians Tour for you....
|
| |
Date: 28 Nov 2006 12:56:14
From:
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
On Nov 28, 3:44 pm, curtjest...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Stay on the range til you can break 70! Why spoil a good walk?
>
my back starts to wear down after about 55....
|
| |
Date: 28 Nov 2006 12:44:40
From:
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
Stay on the range til you can break 70! Why spoil a good walk?
CJ
pmchugh@online.de wrote:
> Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
>
> I couldn't recommend this highly enough, especially for a tough
> course. Make it one of your golf habits and you'll find your scores
> and handicap will tumble.
>
> There are two reasons for this. Firstly, bogey golf is a much easier
> game and played properly you will widen your scope of interest, which
> improves concentration, focus and attitude.
>
> I would go as far as to say that every course should be tackled as
> level 5's until your handicap gets down to at least -4 or -5 and even
> then I wouldn't jump to normal par.
>
> With the present handicap system, most people's handicaps are on
> average between 5-10 shots worse than their allowance. It has to be as
> they are rewarded with 2,3,4 or even 5 times '0.1' depending on how
> much under their handicap they play.
>
> However, no matter how bad they play the penalty is only one single
> '0.1'. You all know the Mathematics and are aware that during the
> season if we manage to beat our handicap on 10% of our rounds, not
> outside the normal golf habits, then its been a successful season.
>
> The second reason to play bogey golf is because the word 'par'
> translates to 'professional average result' and although we all
> strive to reach the lowest score possible, I don't think most of us
> would expect to be put into this category.
>
> I play off scratch but always allow myself the priveledge of playing
> bogie golf on the four longest par fours. I adopted this long ago in my
> amateur days as one of my first improved golf habits. This gives me 8
> or 9 holes which are now par 5's and I regard each and every one of
> them as good birdie opportunities.
>
> A low handicapper should do this and should play bogey golf on selected
> par 3's for every number over scratch. For example,
> a 5 handicapper would have 9 par 5's and 9 par 4's and a 14
> handicapper 18 par 5's. For the even higher handicappers, the long
> par 4's and par 5's would be changed to 6's and so on.
>
> I do hear a few 14 handicappers laughing at the very thought of calling
> a 3 on a short hole an eagle but that is how I suggest you do it and it
> works well for my 14 handicap students who have been working on this.
> The first nine holes on our course are tough with two par 3's, four
> long par 4's and three par 5's.
>
> With bogey golf they often come in with around 2 under to level par.
> They head into the easier nine holes with the same tactics and
> there's a great knock-on effect and they often plays 2 to 4 under for
> them.
>
> Now how many of you 14 handicappers out there regularly break 90 on a
> par 72. Well play this game with improved golf habits, e.g. bogey golf
> and you will be achieving it more often. By the way, hold on to your
> plus-fours because you may be quite surprised how low you can really
> go!
>
> For the higher handicappers, don't forget to change the par 3's to
> 5's before adjusting the par 5's. It is just easier to count this
> way and the bonus of improving you score to par by two shots on the par
> 3's makes for a better attitude.
|
| |
Date: 29 Nov 2006 08:11:53
From: The_Professor
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
cja wrote:
> Knowing what shots you can and can't hit is the key.
That's what it is all about. Some 20 handicappers who is 150 from the
green, no obstructions would be making a good move pulling say a 5I or
a 4I for the shot, but will probably pull a 7I or a shorter club and
play what for them is a really low percentage shot. The 4I will get the
ball on or near the green 90% of the time, regardless, while the 7I
might get it on or near the green 30% of the time, regardless.
|
| | |
Date: 29 Nov 2006 23:43:50
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
On 29 Nov 2006 08:11:53 -0800, "The_Professor" <dbid@att.net > wrote:
>That's what it is all about. Some 20 handicappers who is 150 from the
>green, no obstructions would be making a good move pulling say a 5I or
>a 4I for the shot, but will probably pull a 7I or a shorter club and
>play what for them is a really low percentage shot. The 4I will get the
>ball on or near the green 90% of the time, regardless, while the 7I
>might get it on or near the green 30% of the time, regardless.
Weird. I'm not yet 20 handicap (next year), but I don't think I
would have any success at all trying to hit a 4I 150 yards to the
green. I know good players can do that, but for me, I want my 155
yard 7I.
|
| |
Date: 29 Nov 2006 07:38:16
From: cja
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
oconnell@slr.orl.lmco.com wrote:
> The advice to play bogey golf presumes something about high
> and mid-handicappers games which may or may not be true.
> The presumption is that their problem is a "mental" one. i.e they
> are making bad decisions because they are trying to make par
> and if they knew they had another stroke, they'd some how play
> differently. This is true for some people on some holes, but the
> far more common problem for "high handicappers" is that they suck.
>
They suck _and_ they make bad decisions. Or good decisions turn out
badly because they suck. Someone in this thread said this "bogey golf"
theory was not about course management, but I think that's exactly what
it's about. Knowing what shots you can and can't hit is the key. The
problem with high handicappers may be they're so inconsistent, they
don't have any shot they can really rely on. Tricking themselves into
better course management may not help much.
I think most of us here don't believe shooting for some artificial
number will help our games. If you're 100 yards from the hole, will you
hit a better wedge if your goal is to get down in 3 instead of 2? I
don't think so.
- cja
|
| | |
Date: 29 Nov 2006 15:51:00
From: Dave Lee
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
"cja" <cja@excite.com > wrote in message
news:1164814696.143621.151800@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
> oconnell@slr.orl.lmco.com wrote:
>
snip
> it's about. Knowing what shots you can and can't hit is the key. The
> problem with high handicappers may be they're so inconsistent, they
> don't have any shot they can really rely on. Tricking themselves into
> better course management may not help much.
>
snip
Amen to that.
dave
|
| | |
Date: 29 Nov 2006 23:39:59
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
On 29 Nov 2006 07:38:16 -0800, "cja" <cja@excite.com > wrote:
>They suck _and_ they make bad decisions. Or good decisions turn out
>badly because they suck. Someone in this thread said this "bogey golf"
>theory was not about course management, but I think that's exactly what
>it's about. Knowing what shots you can and can't hit is the key. The
>problem with high handicappers may be they're so inconsistent, they
>don't have any shot they can really rely on. Tricking themselves into
>better course management may not help much.
And we make the same bad decisions trying to turn a triple bogey into
a double bogey as we do trying to turn a par into a birdie.
Changing the target score doesn't make our decisions better.
Forgetting the target score often does.
One way to learn how targets effect your play is to match play. Too
few American bad golfers play match play enough to learn the value of
not trying for the heroic shot to match one's opponent. I'm slowly
learning.
|
| |
Date: 29 Nov 2006 05:56:54
From: oconnell@slr.orl.lmco.com
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
Don Kirkman wrote:
[snip]
> If your point is that as a matter of course management high and mid
> handicappers should not expect to make par on most holes, not a problem,
> but that has little or nothing to do with bogey golf as it's
> traditionally been defined.
>
The advice to play bogey golf presumes something about high
and mid-handicappers games which may or may not be true.
The presumption is that their problem is a "mental" one. i.e they
are making bad decisions because they are trying to make par
and if they knew they had another stroke, they'd some how play
differently. This is true for some people on some holes, but the
far more common problem for "high handicappers" is that they suck.
Their (my) swings are inconsistent, their short game is
very weak, and they putt like morons. What they (I) need is
some practice and maybe some lessons. Time tends to
interfere in such things.
I'll admit that this is not to say that anyone at any level
can't benefit some from some good course management.
But this is less about the "mental" aspects than it is about
understanding the concept of "scoring". There are issues of
where to "miss" and how to stay out of big trouble by
aiming away towards "little" trouble. One of my more common
mistakes is taking a club too much, overflying the green, into
trouble, when taking a club less and having ended up a tad
short would have been a better gamble. I can let pin position
influence my club selection when it shouldn't. Conversely,
I can forget to take advantage of pin position to avoid
trouble. This isn't so much a "mental" problem as a
knowledge problem. And playing "bogey golf" doesn't
help unless you actually take advantage of the "extra stroke"
to make good course management decisions.
|
| |
Date: 29 Nov 2006 05:48:33
From: oconnell@slr.orl.lmco.com
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
Don Kirkman wrote:
[snip]
> If your point is that as a matter of course management high and mid
> handicappers should not expect to make par on most holes, not a problem,
> but that has little or nothing to do with bogey golf as it's
> traditionally been defined.
>
The advice to play bogey golf presumes something about high
and mid-handicappers games which may or may not be true.
The presumption is that their problem is a "mental" one. i.e they
are making bad decisions because they are trying to make par
and if they knew they had another stroke, they'd some how play
differently. This is true for some people on some holes, but the
far more common problem for "high handicappers" is that they suck.
Their (my) swings are inconsistent, their short game is
very weak, and they putt like morons. What they (I) need is
some practice and maybe some lessons. Time tends to
interfere in such things.
I'll admit that this is not to say that anyone at any level
can't benefit some from some good course management.
But this is less about the "mental" aspects than it is about
understanding the concept of "scoring". There are issues of
where to "miss" and how to stay out of big trouble by
aiming away towards "little" trouble. One of my more common
mistakes is taking a club too much, overflying the green, into
trouble, when taking a club less and having ended up a tad
short would have been a better gamble. I can let pin position
influence my club selection when it shouldn't. Conversely,
I can forget to take advantage of pin position to avoid
trouble. This isn't so much a "mental" problem as a
knowledge problem. And playing "bogey golf" doesn't
help unless you actually take advantage of the "extra stroke"
to make good course management decisions.
|
| |
Date: 29 Nov 2006 14:00:08
From:
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
Mr O'Connell,
I suggest that even low handicappers should benefit from and use this
scoring technique.
I am of the opinion that par (professional average result) should be
left to the masters. As I said earlier I paly off scratch but allow
myself 4 long par 4's as bogey holes. It just works so well for me and
I am surprised how often I get 4's and how it boosts me.
Awrabest
S.MacD.
oconnell@slr.orl.lmco.com wrote:
> Don Kirkman wrote:
> [snip]
> > If your point is that as a matter of course management high and mid
> > handicappers should not expect to make par on most holes, not a problem,
> > but that has little or nothing to do with bogey golf as it's
> > traditionally been defined.
> >
>
> The advice to play bogey golf presumes something about high
> and mid-handicappers games which may or may not be true.
> The presumption is that their problem is a "mental" one. i.e they
> are making bad decisions because they are trying to make par
> and if they knew they had another stroke, they'd some how play
> differently. This is true for some people on some holes, but the
> far more common problem for "high handicappers" is that they suck.
> Their (my) swings are inconsistent, their short game is
> very weak, and they putt like morons. What they (I) need is
> some practice and maybe some lessons. Time tends to
> interfere in such things.
>
> I'll admit that this is not to say that anyone at any level
> can't benefit some from some good course management.
> But this is less about the "mental" aspects than it is about
> understanding the concept of "scoring". There are issues of
> where to "miss" and how to stay out of big trouble by
> aiming away towards "little" trouble. One of my more common
> mistakes is taking a club too much, overflying the green, into
> trouble, when taking a club less and having ended up a tad
> short would have been a better gamble. I can let pin position
> influence my club selection when it shouldn't. Conversely,
> I can forget to take advantage of pin position to avoid
> trouble. This isn't so much a "mental" problem as a
> knowledge problem. And playing "bogey golf" doesn't
> help unless you actually take advantage of the "extra stroke"
> to make good course management decisions.
|
| |
Date: 29 Nov 2006 13:49:24
From:
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
Don,
I didn't mean play bogey golf to the word. You are allowed to play 10
under. I just mean score the holes that way. If you are regularly
breaking 80 then you can adapt to an updated version, e.g. easier nine
level 4's and the other nine level 5's.
As a youth with a handicap around 10, my personal target every round
was to be 11 under level 5's. I can remember achieving sub 80 rounds
easier and more often this way.
Awrabest
S.MacD.
Don Kirkman wrote:
> It seems to me I heard somewhere that pmchugh@online.de wrote in article
> <1164714684.792504.97020@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>:
>
> >Read through my OP again. I said play bogey golf until you can break 80
> >regularly. if your handicap is under 14 then there is a variant of
> >bogey golf that I advise. Don't forget, I play scratch golf but allow
> >myself bogey on four long par 4's.
>
> >I hope I have cleared that up a little for you.
>
> Read through my question again. Bogey golf is by definition a 90 on a
> par-72 course. If you break 80 you're 10+ strokes below bogey golf.
>
> If your point is that as a matter of course management high and mid
> handicappers should not expect to make par on most holes, not a problem,
> but that has little or nothing to do with bogey golf as it's
> traditionally been defined.
>
> >Don Kirkman wrote:
> >
> >> I don't quite follow this. On most courses par 72 plus 18 bogeys = 90.
> >> How do the other ten strokes get saved to break 80? Or do you mean
> >> breaking *into* the 80s?
> --
> Don Kirkman
|
| |
Date: 29 Nov 2006 12:08:40
From: The_Professor
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
strat68@eudoramail.com wrote:
> On Nov 29, 11:11 am, "The_Professor" <d...@att.net> wrote:
> > cja wrote:
> > > Knowing what shots you can and can't hit is the key.That's what it is all about. Some 20 handicappers who is 150 from the
> > green, no obstructions would be making a good move pulling say a 5I or
> > a 4I for the shot, but will probably pull a 7I or a shorter club and
> > play what for them is a really low percentage shot. The 4I will get the
> > ball on or near the green 90% of the time, regardless, while the 7I
> > might get it on or near the green 30% of the time, regardless.
>
> When I played to a 20 I was shorter but not *that* short, however more
> directionally challenged. If I pulled a 4 iron from 150 caught a solid
> left yank- I might hurt someone on the next tee box. But there does
> seem to be a correlation between (x>handicap) : (x<club)
If I hit a full 4I from 150, I would hit it well past most of the time,
but if I hit a baby 4I from 150 I would get it on or near the green far
more often than I would trying to hit a 7I from 150. Most amateurs,
like myself, think of the best shot we hit with a given club, not the
average shot, and not the highest probability shot. The chance of
pulling off your best shot with a given club is pretty low for a 20
handicapper. However, even a 30 handicapper can find a way to hit a 4I
150 or so and keep it in play.
|
| | |
Date: 29 Nov 2006 17:40:03
From: FredK
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
"The_Professor" <dbid@att.net > wrote in message
news:1164830920.689315.228060@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
>
> strat68@eudoramail.com wrote:
>> On Nov 29, 11:11 am, "The_Professor" <d...@att.net> wrote:
>> > cja wrote:
>> > > Knowing what shots you can and can't hit is the key.That's what it is
>> > > all about. Some 20 handicappers who is 150 from the
>> > green, no obstructions would be making a good move pulling say a 5I or
>> > a 4I for the shot, but will probably pull a 7I or a shorter club and
>> > play what for them is a really low percentage shot. The 4I will get the
>> > ball on or near the green 90% of the time, regardless, while the 7I
>> > might get it on or near the green 30% of the time, regardless.
>>
>> When I played to a 20 I was shorter but not *that* short, however more
>> directionally challenged. If I pulled a 4 iron from 150 caught a solid
>> left yank- I might hurt someone on the next tee box. But there does
>> seem to be a correlation between (x>handicap) : (x<club)
>
> If I hit a full 4I from 150, I would hit it well past most of the time,
> but if I hit a baby 4I from 150 I would get it on or near the green far
> more often than I would trying to hit a 7I from 150. Most amateurs,
> like myself, think of the best shot we hit with a given club, not the
> average shot, and not the highest probability shot. The chance of
> pulling off your best shot with a given club is pretty low for a 20
> handicapper. However, even a 30 handicapper can find a way to hit a 4I
> 150 or so and keep it in play.
>
Absolutely strange. I can't imagine trying to hit a "baby" 4i being a
higher probability shot than a normal 7i swing - IMHO the greater the loft
the easier in general it is to make good contact. Trying to deliberately
hit a 4i that short would probably cause me to hit a fat worm burner that
"might" roll 150 - or (as it always happens) you slow down your tempo and
hit it perfectly and end up hitting it 180y. I'm a pretty crummy golfer,
but with no wind if I hit a 7i flush it *carries* 150 and if I don't it
carries maybe 140. I might dial up to a 6i or down to a 8i depending on
just how crummy I'm hitting it, the wind, and what is in front/back of the
green - but a 3 club difference?
The problem I have (and many others I've seen) is less about distance than
about predicting what direction it will go, and trying to 3/4 swing a 4i
instead of a normal swing isn't going to help me there.
|
| | |
Date: 29 Nov 2006 14:11:47
From:
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
Well put Ken,
I know plenty of 60 year olds who get the driver out on par 3's. By the
way have you got some of those rescue clubs in your bag to replace 6
iron or longer. I personally have no longer iron than no. 6 in my bag.
Awrabest
S.MacD.
Kenn Smith wrote:
> I guess that if you want to play mind games with yourself whatever
> floats your boat is OK. I've always found my pleasure in golf, and goad
> for improvement, playing against the established par for any golf
> course. Even with slope differentials it is still a stable measure of
> my game and its (pro)(re)gression.
>
> As you age your approach to the game is going to change, at least it
> _better_ change if you want to score. At almost 75 I don't even think
> about reaching par 5's in 2, I try to place my shots where I will have a
> reasonable short iron shot at the pin. Very long par 4's I try to do no
> worse than 5 on. I'm not too pround to hit driver on a par 3 if that's
> what I think is required to get to the putting surface, or to lay up and
> trust my wedge if I don't think I can make it.
>
> I'm a short hitter, rare in RSG, but have learned what comfortable
> distances I can hit each club in my bag and that makes a big difference
> in my game. When in doubt I will always, always go with the longer
> club; if I happen to knock it over the green so be it. If you look at
> most golf courses almost all of the trouble is in front or alongside of
> the green, not behind it. My chances of recovery from a long shot are
> much better than those from a short one.
>
> Such is the philosoph of The Ancient Mariner.
|
| | |
Date: 29 Nov 2006 15:37:39
From: Kenn Smith
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
I guess that if you want to play mind games with yourself whatever
floats your boat is OK. I've always found my pleasure in golf, and goad
for improvement, playing against the established par for any golf
course. Even with slope differentials it is still a stable measure of
my game and its (pro)(re)gression.
As you age your approach to the game is going to change, at least it
_better_ change if you want to score. At almost 75 I don't even think
about reaching par 5's in 2, I try to place my shots where I will have a
reasonable short iron shot at the pin. Very long par 4's I try to do no
worse than 5 on. I'm not too pround to hit driver on a par 3 if that's
what I think is required to get to the putting surface, or to lay up and
trust my wedge if I don't think I can make it.
I'm a short hitter, rare in RSG, but have learned what comfortable
distances I can hit each club in my bag and that makes a big difference
in my game. When in doubt I will always, always go with the longer
club; if I happen to knock it over the green so be it. If you look at
most golf courses almost all of the trouble is in front or alongside of
the green, not behind it. My chances of recovery from a long shot are
much better than those from a short one.
Such is the philosoph of The Ancient Mariner.
|
| |
Date: 29 Nov 2006 11:54:32
From: oconnell@slr.orl.lmco.com
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
cja wrote:
> oconnell@slr.orl.lmco.com wrote:
>
> > The advice to play bogey golf presumes something about high
> > and mid-handicappers games which may or may not be true.
> > The presumption is that their problem is a "mental" one. i.e they
> > are making bad decisions because they are trying to make par
> > and if they knew they had another stroke, they'd some how play
> > differently. This is true for some people on some holes, but the
> > far more common problem for "high handicappers" is that they suck.
> >
> They suck _and_ they make bad decisions. Or good decisions turn out
> badly because they suck. Someone in this thread said this "bogey golf"
> theory was not about course management, but I think that's exactly what
> it's about. Knowing what shots you can and can't hit is the key. The
> problem with high handicappers may be they're so inconsistent, they
> don't have any shot they can really rely on. Tricking themselves into
> better course management may not help much.
>
> I think most of us here don't believe shooting for some artificial
> number will help our games. If you're 100 yards from the hole, will you
> hit a better wedge if your goal is to get down in 3 instead of 2? I
> don't think so.
It would if you would decide to use a 60 yard shot to ensure
you stayed short of the hole and have an up hill putt instead of
overflying the green into the trap behind the green and have
a sand shot, to a tight pin, with the green running away from you.
But that really isn't about playing "bogey golf" and it is about
course management. Bogey golf is about changing the goal
to make yourself feel better about accomplishing it. Course
management is about choosing the shot that gives you the
best chance on the next shot.
|
| | |
Date: 29 Nov 2006 23:46:45
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
On 29 Nov 2006 11:54:32 -0800, "oconnell@slr.orl.lmco.com"
<oconnell@slr.orl.lmco.com > wrote:
>Bogey golf is about changing the goal
>to make yourself feel better about accomplishing it
That's the main reason I have a handicap. I feel good when my score
counts for my handicap. If it is going down, then I am improving.
|
| |
Date: 29 Nov 2006 11:53:24
From: oconnell@slr.orl.lmco.com
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
cja wrote:
> oconnell@slr.orl.lmco.com wrote:
>
> > The advice to play bogey golf presumes something about high
> > and mid-handicappers games which may or may not be true.
> > The presumption is that their problem is a "mental" one. i.e they
> > are making bad decisions because they are trying to make par
> > and if they knew they had another stroke, they'd some how play
> > differently. This is true for some people on some holes, but the
> > far more common problem for "high handicappers" is that they suck.
> >
> They suck _and_ they make bad decisions. Or good decisions turn out
> badly because they suck. Someone in this thread said this "bogey golf"
> theory was not about course management, but I think that's exactly what
> it's about. Knowing what shots you can and can't hit is the key. The
> problem with high handicappers may be they're so inconsistent, they
> don't have any shot they can really rely on. Tricking themselves into
> better course management may not help much.
>
> I think most of us here don't believe shooting for some artificial
> number will help our games. If you're 100 yards from the hole, will you
> hit a better wedge if your goal is to get down in 3 instead of 2? I
> don't think so.
It would if you would decide to use a 60 yard shot to ensure
you stayed short of the hole and have an up hill putt instead of
overflying the green into the trap behind the green and have
a sand shot, to a tight pin, with the green running away from you.
But that really isn't about playing "bogey golf" and it is about
course management. Bogey golf is about changing the goal
to make yourself feel better about accomplishing it. Course
management is about choosing the shot that gives you the
best chance on the next shot.
|
| |
Date: 29 Nov 2006 11:12:12
From:
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
On Nov 29, 11:11 am, "The_Professor" <d...@att.net > wrote:
> cja wrote:
> > Knowing what shots you can and can't hit is the key.That's what it is all about. Some 20 handicappers who is 150 from the
> green, no obstructions would be making a good move pulling say a 5I or
> a 4I for the shot, but will probably pull a 7I or a shorter club and
> play what for them is a really low percentage shot. The 4I will get the
> ball on or near the green 90% of the time, regardless, while the 7I
> might get it on or near the green 30% of the time, regardless.
When I played to a 20 I was shorter but not *that* short, however more
directionally challenged. If I pulled a 4 iron from 150 caught a solid
left yank- I might hurt someone on the next tee box. But there does
seem to be a correlation between (x >handicap) : (x<club)
|
| |
Date: 30 Nov 2006 07:09:58
From: The_Professor
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
FredK wrote:
>
> Absolutely strange. I can't imagine trying to hit a "baby" 4i being a
> higher probability shot than a normal 7i swing - IMHO the greater the loft
> the easier in general it is to make good contact.
snipppp
IMHO, the easier you swing, the easier it is to make solid contact.
Learning how to swing easier is probably the most important lesson to
learn in golf. A 20 handicapper makes *REAL* solid contact maybe once a
round, regardless of the club. Swinging easier and playing well within
the range of your capabilities is going to take a lot of strokes off
your score over trying to hit some ideal shot with a more lofted club.
I'll take a nasty looking low running shot that gets me on the green
every time over attempting some sort of high shot that I can pull off
maybe 1/4 attempts..at best.
|
| | |
Date: 30 Nov 2006 18:52:01
From: Rob Davis
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
The_Professor wrote:
> FredK wrote:
>
>>Absolutely strange. I can't imagine trying to hit a "baby" 4i being a
>>higher probability shot than a normal 7i swing - IMHO the greater the loft
>>the easier in general it is to make good contact.
>
> IMHO, the easier you swing, the easier it is to make solid contact.
> Learning how to swing easier is probably the most important lesson to
> learn in golf. A 20 handicapper makes *REAL* solid contact maybe once a
> round, regardless of the club. Swinging easier and playing well within
> the range of your capabilities is going to take a lot of strokes off
> your score over trying to hit some ideal shot with a more lofted club.
>
Not necessarily disagreeing, but the term "swing easy" can be
misleading. The important thing IMO is finding a consistant, fluid
swing/tempo and sticking with it. You don't want to swing easy on a
particular shot because you're using a longer club ... you want to swing
easy on every shot and use whatever distance that creates. In that
sense, I would agree with FredK ... that you're usually better off using
a "normal" swing than clubbing up and trying to "baby" a shot. Of course
you have to be realistic and consistent at what a "normal" swing and
distance is.
Rob
|
| |
Date: 30 Nov 2006 05:30:00
From: oconnell@slr.orl.lmco.com
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
pmchugh@online.de wrote:
> oconnell@slr.orl.lmco.com wrote:
> > Don Kirkman wrote:
> > [snip]
> > > If your point is that as a matter of course management high and mid
> > > handicappers should not expect to make par on most holes, not a problem,
> > > but that has little or nothing to do with bogey golf as it's
> > > traditionally been defined.
[snip]
> > And playing "bogey golf" doesn't
> > help unless you actually take advantage of the "extra stroke"
> > to make good course management decisions.
> Mr O'Connell,
>
> I suggest that even low handicappers should benefit from and use this
> scoring technique.
It only helps if ones problem is associated with their mental
approach
to each shot. If one is trying to make shots they shouldn't because
of a stated level of par, changing the goal can help. I suspect that
is
a small portion of the golfing public, of which I suspect you are one.
Most golfers I play with tee off with the longest club in their bag
regardless
of anything but length of hole. If they are within 230 yards of a
hole,
they are playing for the green, regardless of ability. Heck, I had a
group
waiting for me to clear a green on a par 5 before taking their 2nd
shot.
They were 330 yards from the green.... over water. Trust me, the
definition
of par on that hole wasn't the influencing factor.
> I am of the opinion that par (professional average result) should be
> left to the masters. As I said earlier I paly off scratch but allow
> myself 4 long par 4's as bogey holes. It just works so well for me and
> I am surprised how often I get 4's and how it boosts me.
I'm glad it works for you. There are very few, if any,
techniques, tricks,
or equipment which will improve everyone ones game. Even fewer that
can
be "taught" in a USENET post.
|
| | |
Date: 01 Dec 2006 12:35:46
From: Michael Anselmo
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
<oconnell@slr.orl.lmco.com > wrote in message
news:1164893400.123201.247700@l39g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>
> pmchugh@online.de wrote:
>> oconnell@slr.orl.lmco.com wrote:
>> > Don Kirkman wrote:
>> > [snip]
>> > > If your point is that as a matter of course management high and mid
>> > > handicappers should not expect to make par on most holes, not a
>> > > problem,
>> > > but that has little or nothing to do with bogey golf as it's
>> > > traditionally been defined.
> [snip]
>> > And playing "bogey golf" doesn't
>> > help unless you actually take advantage of the "extra stroke"
>> > to make good course management decisions.
>> Mr O'Connell,
>>
>> I suggest that even low handicappers should benefit from and use this
>> scoring technique.
>
> It only helps if ones problem is associated with their mental
> approach
> to each shot. If one is trying to make shots they shouldn't because
> of a stated level of par, changing the goal can help. I suspect that
> is
> a small portion of the golfing public, of which I suspect you are one.
> Most golfers I play with tee off with the longest club in their bag
> regardless
> of anything but length of hole. If they are within 230 yards of a
> hole,
> they are playing for the green, regardless of ability. Heck, I had a
> group
> waiting for me to clear a green on a par 5 before taking their 2nd
> shot.
> They were 330 yards from the green.... over water. Trust me, the
> definition
> of par on that hole wasn't the influencing factor.
>
>> I am of the opinion that par (professional average result) should be
>> left to the masters. As I said earlier I paly off scratch but allow
>> myself 4 long par 4's as bogey holes. It just works so well for me and
>> I am surprised how often I get 4's and how it boosts me.
>
> I'm glad it works for you. There are very few, if any,
> techniques, tricks,
> or equipment which will improve everyone ones game. Even fewer that
> can
> be "taught" in a USENET post.
>
There is a complete description of "Personal Par" in the book "Break 100
Now!" by Mike Adams and T.J. Tomasi with Mike Corcoran.
It is an attitudinal thing that keeps you from attempting shots that you
can't make (and get you in more trouble) at the stage you are at in the golf
journey.
I know that no one in RSG has ever read THAT book.
Present company excepted, of course.
I didn't read it, a friend told me about it. Yeah, that's the ticket. ;-)
Mike
|
| |
Date: 30 Nov 2006 13:32:05
From:
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
On Nov 29, 5:40 pm, "FredK" <fred.nos...@nospam.dec.com > wrote:
> "The_Professor" <d...@att.net> wrote in messagenews:1164830920.689315.228060@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
> > stra...@eudoramail.com wrote:
> >> On Nov 29, 11:11 am, "The_Professor" <d...@att.net> wrote:
> >> > cja wrote:
> >> > > Knowing what shots you can and can't hit is the key.That's what it is
> >> > > all about. Some 20 handicappers who is 150 from the
> >> > green, no obstructions would be making a good move pulling say a 5I or
> >> > a 4I for the shot, but will probably pull a 7I or a shorter club and
> >> > play what for them is a really low percentage shot. The 4I will get the
> >> > ball on or near the green 90% of the time, regardless, while the 7I
> >> > might get it on or near the green 30% of the time, regardless.
>
> >> When I played to a 20 I was shorter but not *that* short, however more
> >> directionally challenged. If I pulled a 4 iron from 150 caught a solid
> >> left yank- I might hurt someone on the next tee box. But there does
> >> seem to be a correlation between (x>handicap) : (x<club)
>
> > If I hit a full 4I from 150, I would hit it well past most of the time,
> > but if I hit a baby 4I from 150 I would get it on or near the green far
> > more often than I would trying to hit a 7I from 150. Most amateurs,
> > like myself, think of the best shot we hit with a given club, not the
> > average shot, and not the highest probability shot. The chance of
> > pulling off your best shot with a given club is pretty low for a 20
> > handicapper. However, even a 30 handicapper can find a way to hit a 4I
> > 150 or so and keep it in play.
> Absolutely strange. I can't imagine trying to hit a "baby" 4i being a
> higher probability shot than a normal 7i swing - IMHO the greater the loft
> the easier in general it is to make good contact. Trying to deliberately
> hit a 4i that short would probably cause me to hit a fat worm burner that
I agree and think this depends on the person, a few years ago the 6
iron was my bread and butter shot (in my mind, at least), so the 7
wasn't that far off from being a favorite club. I just realized how
often I stunk up using a long iron on punch outs a few years back. The
short swing lead me to try and muscle with the hands at the last second
leading to a topped worm burner and barely getting out of the trouble.
In fairness to the other point, I swing much easier now with a slight
bend maintained in the left elbow which is a contributing factor why
I'm 6-7 lower (index) than a few years ago. So if the "20" can resist
the urge to hit at the last second to compensate for what is perceived
as a weaker stroke it might work. I couldn't and preferred the full
shot.
|
| |
Date: 30 Nov 2006 13:13:22
From: The_Professor
Subject: Re: Play bogey golf until you are breaking 80 regularly.
|
Rob Davis wrote:
> The_Professor wrote:
> > FredK wrote:
> >
> >>Absolutely strange. I can't imagine trying to hit a "baby" 4i being a
> >>higher probability shot than a normal 7i swing - IMHO the greater the loft
> >>the easier in general it is to make good contact.
> >
> > IMHO, the easier you swing, the easier it is to make solid contact.
> > Learning how to swing easier is probably the most important lesson to
> > learn in golf. A 20 handicapper makes *REAL* solid contact maybe once a
> > round, regardless of the club. Swinging easier and playing well within
> > the range of your capabilities is going to take a lot of strokes off
> > your score over trying to hit some ideal shot with a more lofted club.
> >
>
> Not necessarily disagreeing, but the term "swing easy" can be
> misleading. The important thing IMO is finding a consistant, fluid
> swing/tempo and sticking with it. You don't want to swing easy on a
> particular shot because you're using a longer club ... you want to swing
> easy on every shot and use whatever distance that creates. In that
> sense, I would agree with FredK ... that you're usually better off using
> a "normal" swing than clubbing up and trying to "baby" a shot. Of course
> you have to be realistic and consistent at what a "normal" swing and
> distance is.
>
I agree fully with you. Hit a chip shot with a 4I and see how far it
goes. Hit a pitch with a 4I and see how far it goes. Whatever that
distance is, it would be easier to get there with a chip shot than a
full swing, IMHO.
> Rob
|
|
