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Main
Date: 16 Oct 2006 14:00:57
From: AKA Gray Asphalt
Subject: OT What's wrong with Biden's plan to cut up Iraq?
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Give each faction (3), their own area and make sure each has some oil
revenue ... He's been there a bunch of times and is on the right committees
and when he goes on the Sunday news shows, no one seems to give a good
reason why not to creat 3 seperate states. It seem a lot better than a mass
murder where the Iran types kill all of the Sunnis.
I've got a feeling we're going to be ther till the easy money (unaccounted
for Iraqi oil money) drys up.
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Date: 17 Oct 2006 05:38:41
From: bill-o
Subject: Re: OT What's wrong with Biden's plan to cut up Iraq?
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There you go again! Promise you'll stop after the election?
I'll leave you with this thought of Roger Simon: It [politics] is blood
sport performed by truly uninteresting performers-basketball without Kobe,
Shaq or Jordan. People like Reid, Hastert, Pelosi are complete mediocrities
who should be at much lower levels in our society. Something is
fundamentally wrong on both sides of the aisle if they are the upper
leadership of our Congress
--
bill-o
A "gimme" can best be defined as an agreement between
two golfers neither of whom can putt very well.
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Date: 17 Oct 2006 05:04:47
From: bill-o
Subject: Re: OT What's wrong with Biden's plan to cut up Iraq?
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On 16--2006, "AKA Gray Asphalt" <goodidea1950@hotmail.spam.com > wrote:
> Give each faction (3), their own area and make sure each has some oil
> revenue ... He's been there a bunch of times and is on the right
> committees
> and when he goes on the Sunday news shows, no one seems to give a good
> reason why not to creat 3 separate states. It seem a lot better than a
> mass
> murder where the Iran types kill all of the Sunnis.
>
> I've got a feeling we're going to be there till the easy money
> (unaccounted
>
> for Iraqi oil money) drys up.
I suppose the Sen has consulted the Iraqis and this is what they want? He
didn't? Well then it is just another imposition from the West.
--
bill-o
A "gimme" can best be defined as an agreement between
two golfers neither of whom can putt very well.
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Date: 17 Oct 2006 08:04:38
From: Bert Robbins
Subject: Re: OT What's wrong with Biden's plan to cut up Iraq?
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bill-o wrote:
> On 16--2006, "AKA Gray Asphalt" <goodidea1950@hotmail.spam.com> wrote:
>
>> Give each faction (3), their own area and make sure each has some oil
>> revenue ... He's been there a bunch of times and is on the right
>> committees
>> and when he goes on the Sunday news shows, no one seems to give a good
>> reason why not to creat 3 separate states. It seem a lot better than a
>> mass
>> murder where the Iran types kill all of the Sunnis.
>>
>> I've got a feeling we're going to be there till the easy money
>> (unaccounted
>>
>> for Iraqi oil money) drys up.
>
> I suppose the Sen has consulted the Iraqis and this is what they want? He
> didn't? Well then it is just another imposition from the West.
>
I hope he has consulted the Turks and the Iranians. They will go
ballistic when they find out that their is a Kurdistan. The Kurds in
southeast Turkey and northwest Iran will want to become part of this new
Kurdish state. This is when the fireworks will start.
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Date: 17 Oct 2006 14:13:20
From: AKA Gray Asphalt
Subject: Re: OT What's wrong with Biden's plan to cut up Iraq?
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"bill-o" <assimilate@borg.org > wrote in message
news:45346460$0$26033$882e0bbb@news.ThunderNews.com...
>
> On 16--2006, "AKA Gray Asphalt" <goodidea1950@hotmail.spam.com> wrote:
>
>> Give each faction (3), their own area and make sure each has some oil
>> revenue ... He's been there a bunch of times and is on the right
>> committees
>> and when he goes on the Sunday news shows, no one seems to give a good
>> reason why not to creat 3 separate states. It seem a lot better than a
>> mass
>> murder where the Iran types kill all of the Sunnis.
>>
>> I've got a feeling we're going to be there till the easy money
>> (unaccounted
>>
>> for Iraqi oil money) drys up.
>
> I suppose the Sen has consulted the Iraqis and this is what they want? He
> didn't? Well then it is just another imposition from the West.
>
> --
> bill-o
>
> A "gimme" can best be defined as an agreement between
> two golfers neither of whom can putt very well.
How do you ask "The Iraquis" what they want? That's like asking the NBA what
it wants. Each one wants to win and isn't concerned about the other.
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Date: 16 Oct 2006 20:20:34
From: Jack Hollis
Subject: Re: OT What's wrong with Biden's plan to cut up Iraq?
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On Mon, 16 2006 14:00:57 -0700, "AKA Gray Asphalt"
<goodidea1950@hotmail.spam.com > wrote:
>Give each faction (3), their own area and make sure each has some oil
>revenue ...
Dividing Iraq: Think Long and Hard First
Anthony H. Cordesman
It is easy to call for dividing Iraq as if that could somehow solve
the nation痴 problems, and allow the US to exit. There are also some
lobbyists calling for Kurdish independence or autonomy who see such
calls as the road to their success. The US needs to think long
and hard before it supports such a policy. Civil war and division may
be inevitable, but the results could be anything but pleasant:
Sectarian and ethnic cleansing: Iraq does not have a neat set of
ethnic dividing lines. There has never been a meaningful census of
Iraq that shows exactly how its Arab Sunnis, Arab Shi段tes, Kurds and
other factions are divided or where they
are located. Recent elections have made it clear, however, that its
cities and 18 governorates all have significant minorities, and any
effort to divide the countrywould require massive relocations.
Moreover, Iraq is heavily urbanized, with nearly 40% of the population
in the divided Baghdad and Mosul areas. Kirkuk is already a powder
keg, and Basra is the subject of Shi段te Islamist cleansing. Ulster
and the Balkans have already shown how difficult it is to split
cities, and with Iraq痴 centralized and failing infrastructure, and
impoverished economy, violence and economics cannot be
separated.
The Army and security forces: The regular military have held together
so far, but they are largely Shi段te with a large number of Kurds. The
Ministry of Interior forces are largely Shi段te, and the police are
hopelessly mixed with militia and local security forces that divide
according to local tribal, sectarian, and ethnic ties. Dividing the
country essentially means dividing the army and security forces,
creating local forces on sectarian and ethnic lines, and reinforcing
the militias -- all-leading to more violence.
Oil and money: More than 90% of Iraq痴 native government revenues come
from oil exports. The Sunni Arab west has no present oil revenues. The
Kurds want the northern oil fields, but have no real claim to them and
no secure way to export. The Shi段te south is also divided, with the
Shi段tes in Basra talking about their own area separate from many
other Shi段tes who would control the oil in the south. Once the
nation effectively divides, so does its major resource, and in ways
that make the territorial losers in non-oil areas effectively
dysfunctional. The central government cannot preside over a divided
nation and hope to control oil and the nation痴 infrastructure and
export facilities at the same time. This leaves the losers with little
choice other than further conflict.
Foreign linkages: Neo-Salafi Sunni Islamist extremist groups with ties
to Al Qa段da already have come to dominate the Sunni insurgents. If
Iraq divides, either they will dominate the Iraqi Arab Sunnis, or Arab
Sunni states like Egypt, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia will be forced to do
so -- and they may well end up competing. Iran will compete for the
Shi段tes and exploit the power vacuum if the US leaves. The Kurds
have no friends: Turkey, Iran, and Syria will all threaten, and
attempt to divide and exploit them.
http://www.csis.org/component/option,com_csis_pubs/task,view/id,3186/
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Date: 16 Oct 2006 14:33:31
From: Ken Meltzer
Subject: Re: OT What's wrong with Biden's plan to cut up Iraq?
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John B. wrote:
> AKA Gray Asphalt wrote:
> > Give each faction (3), their own area and make sure each has some oil
> > revenue ... He's been there a bunch of times and is on the right committees
> > and when he goes on the Sunday news shows, no one seems to give a good
> > reason why not to creat 3 seperate states. It seem a lot better than a mass
> > murder where the Iran types kill all of the Sunnis.
> >
> > I've got a feeling we're going to be ther till the easy money (unaccounted
> > for Iraqi oil money) drys up.
>
>
> I sure haven't heard anybody come up with a better idea. And it's
> worked reasonably well in the former Yugoslavia.
Without getting into the merits of Sen. Biden's plan, I'm wondering how
the imposition of it would square with our stated purpose of liberating
the Iraqi people so that will be free to choose their own destiny.
Best,
Ken
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Date: 16 Oct 2006 21:28:26
From: Chris Bellomy
Subject: Re: OT What's wrong with Biden's plan to cut up Iraq?
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AKA Gray Asphalt <goodidea1950@hotmail.spam.com > wrote:
: Give each faction (3), their own area and make sure each has some oil
: revenue ...
What's wrong with it is that every time a border gets drawn
along ethnic/religious lines, "cleansing" follows.
See:
- The partition of India/Pakistan
- The partition of Yugoslavia
- The partition of Ireland
So what clever idea do I have to salvage this situation?
None whatever. It's past being salvaged, I'm afraid.
--
Chris Bellomy
C-List Charter Member
http://clist.org/
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Date: 16 Oct 2006 16:30:42
From: AKA Gray Asphalt
Subject: Re: OT What's wrong with Biden's plan to cut up Iraq?
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"Chris Bellomy" <puevf@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid > wrote in message
news:1T3i3ic5Im8aN34@redshark.goodshow.net...
> AKA Gray Asphalt <goodidea1950@hotmail.spam.com> wrote:
> : Give each faction (3), their own area and make sure each has some oil
> : revenue ...
>
> What's wrong with it is that every time a border gets drawn
> along ethnic/religious lines, "cleansing" follows.
>
> See:
>
> - The partition of India/Pakistan
> - The partition of Yugoslavia
> - The partition of Ireland
>
> So what clever idea do I have to salvage this situation?
> None whatever. It's past being salvaged, I'm afraid.
>
> --
> Chris Bellomy
> C-List Charter Member
> http://clist.org/
Do you think that the above are worse that what we can expect after
withdrawing from Iraq?
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Date: 17 Oct 2006 01:10:06
From: Chris Bellomy
Subject: Re: OT What's wrong with Biden's plan to cut up Iraq?
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AKA Gray Asphalt <goodidea1950@hotmail.spam.com > wrote:
:
: "Chris Bellomy" <puevf@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid > wrote in message
: news:1T3i3ic5Im8aN34@redshark.goodshow.net...
: > AKA Gray Asphalt <goodidea1950@hotmail.spam.com> wrote:
: > : Give each faction (3), their own area and make sure each has some oil
: > : revenue ...
: >
: > What's wrong with it is that every time a border gets drawn
: > along ethnic/religious lines, "cleansing" follows.
: >
: > See:
: >
: > - The partition of India/Pakistan
: > - The partition of Yugoslavia
: > - The partition of Ireland
: >
: > So what clever idea do I have to salvage this situation?
: > None whatever. It's past being salvaged, I'm afraid.
:
: Do you think that the above are worse that what we can expect after
: withdrawing from Iraq?
Hard to say. I know that they're pretty bad. I guess I'd just
have to say that drawing lines in the sand doesn't really
accomplish what we'd like to believe it does.
--
Chris Bellomy
C-List Charter Member
http://clist.org/
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Date: 17 Oct 2006 14:15:28
From: AKA Gray Asphalt
Subject: Re: OT What's wrong with Biden's plan to cut up Iraq?
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I would like for you to do a book report on George HW Bush's book about why
he didn't go to Bagdad and why a regime change would be a bad idea, if
that's what the book says.
"Chris Bellomy" <puevf@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid > wrote in message
news:0T3i3vdaIq06N34@redshark.goodshow.net...
> AKA Gray Asphalt <goodidea1950@hotmail.spam.com> wrote:
> :
> : "Chris Bellomy" <puevf@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid> wrote in message
> : news:1T3i3ic5Im8aN34@redshark.goodshow.net...
> :> AKA Gray Asphalt <goodidea1950@hotmail.spam.com> wrote:
> :> : Give each faction (3), their own area and make sure each has some oil
> :> : revenue ...
> :>
> :> What's wrong with it is that every time a border gets drawn
> :> along ethnic/religious lines, "cleansing" follows.
> :>
> :> See:
> :>
> :> - The partition of India/Pakistan
> :> - The partition of Yugoslavia
> :> - The partition of Ireland
> :>
> :> So what clever idea do I have to salvage this situation?
> :> None whatever. It's past being salvaged, I'm afraid.
> :
> : Do you think that the above are worse that what we can expect after
> : withdrawing from Iraq?
>
> Hard to say. I know that they're pretty bad. I guess I'd just
> have to say that drawing lines in the sand doesn't really
> accomplish what we'd like to believe it does.
>
> --
> Chris Bellomy
> C-List Charter Member
> http://clist.org/
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Date: 16 Oct 2006 19:33:25
From: \R&B\
Subject: Re: OT What's wrong with Biden's plan to cut up Iraq?
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"Chris Bellomy" <puevf@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid > wrote in message
news:1T3i3ic5Im8aN34@redshark.goodshow.net...
> AKA Gray Asphalt <goodidea1950@hotmail.spam.com> wrote:
> : Give each faction (3), their own area and make sure each has some oil
> : revenue ...
>
> What's wrong with it is that every time a border gets drawn
> along ethnic/religious lines, "cleansing" follows.
>
> See:
>
> - The partition of India/Pakistan
> - The partition of Yugoslavia
> - The partition of Ireland
>
> So what clever idea do I have to salvage this situation?
> None whatever. It's past being salvaged, I'm afraid.
The mistake was in believing it was ever worth salvaging in the first place.
We should just annex it as the 51st state.....name it Bedrock, and annoint
Fred Flinstone the first President.
In another 2,000 years, they might catch up with us.
Randy
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Date: 16 Oct 2006 14:16:25
From: John B.
Subject: Re: OT What's wrong with Biden's plan to cut up Iraq?
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AKA Gray Asphalt wrote:
> Give each faction (3), their own area and make sure each has some oil
> revenue ... He's been there a bunch of times and is on the right committees
> and when he goes on the Sunday news shows, no one seems to give a good
> reason why not to creat 3 seperate states. It seem a lot better than a mass
> murder where the Iran types kill all of the Sunnis.
>
> I've got a feeling we're going to be ther till the easy money (unaccounted
> for Iraqi oil money) drys up.
I sure haven't heard anybody come up with a better idea. And it's
worked reasonably well in the former Yugoslavia.
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Date: 17 Oct 2006 06:55:06
From: John B.
Subject: Re: OT What's wrong with Biden's plan to cut up Iraq?
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bill-o wrote:
> There you go again! Promise you'll stop after the election?
>
> I'll leave you with this thought of Roger Simon: It [politics] is blood
> sport performed by truly uninteresting performers-basketball without Kobe,
> Shaq or Jordan. People like Reid, Hastert, Pelosi are complete mediocrities
> who should be at much lower levels in our society. Something is
> fundamentally wrong on both sides of the aisle if they are the upper
> leadership of our Congress
>
Were you happier with DeLay, Armey and Gingrich? It's interesting how
voters blame the political parties for the quality of our
representatives when its the voters who put them there.
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Date: 18 Oct 2006 04:56:42
From: bill-o
Subject: Re: OT What's wrong with Biden's plan to cut up Iraq?
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On 17--2006, "John B." <johnb505@gmail.com > wrote:
> bill-o wrote:
> > There you go again! Promise you'll stop after the election?
> >
> > I'll leave you with this thought of Roger Simon: It [politics] is blood
> > sport performed by truly uninteresting performers-basketball without
> > Kobe,
> > Shaq or Jordan. People like Reid, Hastert, Pelosi are complete
> > mediocrities
> > who should be at much lower levels in our society. Something is
> > fundamentally wrong on both sides of the aisle if they are the upper
> > leadership of our Congress
> >
>
> Were you happier with DeLay, Armey and Gingrich? It's interesting how
> voters blame the political parties for the quality of our
> representatives when its the voters who put them there.
That's the whole stupid point dense matter!
--
bill-o
A "gimme" can best be defined as an agreement between
two golfers neither of whom can putt very well.
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Date: 17 Oct 2006 14:11:26
From: AKA Gray Asphalt
Subject: Re: OT What's wrong with Biden's plan to cut up Iraq?
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"John B." <johnb505@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1161093306.826294.61820@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> bill-o wrote:
>> There you go again! Promise you'll stop after the election?
>>
>> I'll leave you with this thought of Roger Simon: It [politics] is blood
>> sport performed by truly uninteresting performers-basketball without
>> Kobe,
>> Shaq or Jordan. People like Reid, Hastert, Pelosi are complete
>> mediocrities
>> who should be at much lower levels in our society. Something is
>> fundamentally wrong on both sides of the aisle if they are the upper
>> leadership of our Congress
>>
>
> Were you happier with DeLay, Armey and Gingrich? It's interesting how
> voters blame the political parties for the quality of our
> representatives when its the voters who put them there.
What was wrong with Armey. I don't think DeLay was in leadership at the same
time as Gingrich, was he?
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Date: 18 Oct 2006 06:16:40
From: bill-o
Subject: Re: OT What's wrong with Biden's plan to cut up Iraq?
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On 17--2006, "John B." <johnb505@gmail.com > wrote:
> I'll leave you with this thought of Roger Simon: It [politics] is blood
> > sport performed by truly uninteresting performers-basketball without
> > Kobe,
> > Shaq or Jordan. People like Reid, Hastert, Pelosi are complete
> > mediocrities
> > who should be at much lower levels in our society. Something is
> > fundamentally wrong on both sides of the aisle if they are the upper
> > leadership of our Congress
> >
>
> Were you happier with DeLay, Armey and Gingrich? It's interesting how
> voters blame the political parties for the quality of our
> representatives when its the voters who put them there.
Somehow, I don't think this was the comparison Mr Simon was trying to
illicit. And BTW, your choice of "statesmen" tells me you are making some
awful big ASSumptions about me.
--
bill-o
A "gimme" can best be defined as an agreement between
two golfers neither of whom can putt very well.
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Date: 17 Oct 2006 19:54:03
From: Gordo
Subject: Re: OT What's wrong with Biden's plan to cut up Iraq?
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AKA Gray Asphalt wrote:
> Give each faction (3), their own area and make sure each has some oil
> revenue ... He's been there a bunch of times and is on the right committees
> and when he goes on the Sunday news shows, no one seems to give a good
> reason why not to creat 3 seperate states. It seem a lot better than a mass
> murder where the Iran types kill all of the Sunnis.
>
> I've got a feeling we're going to be ther till the easy money (unaccounted
> for Iraqi oil money) drys up.
Didn't you see Dalecki's demand a couple of weeks ago that this sort of
thing must stop?? Just wondering.
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Date: 17 Oct 2006 22:56:50
From: AKA Gray Asphalt
Subject: Re: OT What's wrong with Biden's plan to cut up Iraq?
|
"Gordo" <golfzlf@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1161140043.476882.269910@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>
> AKA Gray Asphalt wrote:
>> Give each faction (3), their own area and make sure each has some oil
>> revenue ... He's been there a bunch of times and is on the right
>> committees
>> and when he goes on the Sunday news shows, no one seems to give a good
>> reason why not to creat 3 seperate states. It seem a lot better than a
>> mass
>> murder where the Iran types kill all of the Sunnis.
>>
>> I've got a feeling we're going to be ther till the easy money
>> (unaccounted
>> for Iraqi oil money) drys up.
>
> Didn't you see Dalecki's demand a couple of weeks ago that this sort of
> thing must stop?? Just wondering.
Appeal to authority ... : -) I guess I'm just an addict. Maybe after the
Islamic fascists blow up a bomb in my area, I'll shut up for a while, at
least while trying to get treatment for radiation poisoning, if I'm not
lucky enough to die.
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Date: 18 Oct 2006 06:49:22
From: Gordo
Subject: Re: OT What's wrong with Biden's plan to cut up Iraq?
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AKA Gray Asphalt wrote:
> "Gordo" <golfzlf@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1161140043.476882.269910@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > AKA Gray Asphalt wrote:
> >> Give each faction (3), their own area and make sure each has some oil
> >> revenue ... He's been there a bunch of times and is on the right
> >> committees
> >> and when he goes on the Sunday news shows, no one seems to give a good
> >> reason why not to creat 3 seperate states. It seem a lot better than a
> >> mass
> >> murder where the Iran types kill all of the Sunnis.
> >>
> >> I've got a feeling we're going to be ther till the easy money
> >> (unaccounted
> >> for Iraqi oil money) drys up.
> >
> > Didn't you see Dalecki's demand a couple of weeks ago that this sort of
> > thing must stop?? Just wondering.
>
> Appeal to authority ... : -) I guess I'm just an addict. Maybe after the
> Islamic fascists blow up a bomb in my area, I'll shut up for a while, at
> least while trying to get treatment for radiation poisoning, if I'm not
> lucky enough to die.
Wow! Someone finally answered a post that I made!! I found it funny
that in the post where Mike so eloquently asked that we avoid political
discussion that the reply to him about playing that same course many
times brought not one reply to me from someone whom I had considered a
friend. Must have been that Call I made late last year from Star Grip
wanting to send him some free samples..................
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Date: 18 Oct 2006 17:46:30
From: annika1980
Subject: Re: OT What's wrong with Biden's plan to cut up Iraq?
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"R&B" wrote:
>
> The mistake was in believing it was ever worth salvaging in the first place.
>
> We should just annex it as the 51st state.....name it Bedrock, and annoint
> Fred Flinstone the first President.
>
> In another 2,000 years, they might catch up with us.
>
So you're saying we should bomb them into the Stone Ages?
Biden's plan, which is also shared by Harold Ford, currently running
for Senate in TN, makes about as much sense as any. And it certainly
makes more sense than "stay the course."
Here is what will likely happen. After the elections Bush will send a
shitload of troops over to Iraq. He'll make some bullshit speech about
how new developments now demand that we have more boots on the ground.
He might even say that his Generals requested more troops. He'll
forget that they wanted them 4 years ago but Rummy knew better.
If this happens all of America should ask why the troops weren't sent
earlier and how many Americans died over there because Bush waited
until it was politically expedient to send what was needed.
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