| |
Main
Date: 07 Dec 2006 02:25:46
From: multi
Subject: OT: James Baker is a gay commie hippie
|
Some goobers in this group jeered at the Johns Hopkins study that
reported hundreds of thousands of Iraqi deaths from our invasion.
They said that the military claimed the number was more like 60,000
(only!), so how could those eggheads, with all their book lernin, be
right?
Well, here's how, according to the report of the Iraq Study Group,
Bush's "bipartisan" hand-picked fact-finding team:
"In addition, there is significant underreporting of the violence in
Iraq... For example, on one day in July 2006 there were 93 attacks or
significant acts of violence reported [by our military]. Yet a careful
review of the reports for that single day brought to light 1,100 acts
of violence. Good policy is difficult to make when information is
systematically collected in a way that minimizes its discrepancy with
policy goals."
Gee whiz, what a surprise. Bush says we're makin progress, so the
military gives him what he wants by failing to acknowledge over 90% of
the violent incidents reported. And god only knows how many incidents
of violence directed at Iraqis went completely unreported. Given our
warm relations with the Iraqis, and the fact (noted elsewhere in the
ISG report) that out of the 1,000 people in our embassy there, only
six are fluent in Arabic, I'd guess well over half. Nice to see that
we have learned our lesson about poor intelligence gathering and
processing.
By the way, the reason I put "bipartisan" in quotes above is that this
team is bipartisan only in the sense that some of the people on it
call themselves Democrats. But as Senator Feingold noted today, none
of the people on the team were against the invasion, and neither were
any of the people whom they called to testify. Because we wouldn't
want to get input from anybody who was, you know, RIGHT about the war.
|
|
| |
Date: 07 Dec 2006 07:35:08
From: John B.
Subject: Re: James Baker is a gay commie hippie
|
the Moderator wrote:
> "multi" <multi@asm.org> wrote in message
> news:0bpfn2l7ovj1ugphbh7j8u5g5mm60r3jrs@4ax.com...
> > Some goobers in this group jeered at the Johns Hopkins study that
> > reported hundreds of thousands of Iraqi deaths from our invasion.
> > They said that the military claimed the number was more like 60,000
> > (only!), so how could those eggheads, with all their book lernin, be
> > right?
>
> The United States should be so lucky to have only 1,100 acts of violence a
> day.
>
> http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/bjsg02.pdf
The US has a population of 300M. Iraq - 27M.
|
| |
Date: 07 Dec 2006 07:39:30
From: the Moderator
Subject: Re: James Baker is a gay commie hippie
|
"multi" <multi@asm.org > wrote in message
news:0bpfn2l7ovj1ugphbh7j8u5g5mm60r3jrs@4ax.com...
> Some goobers in this group jeered at the Johns Hopkins study that
> reported hundreds of thousands of Iraqi deaths from our invasion.
> They said that the military claimed the number was more like 60,000
> (only!), so how could those eggheads, with all their book lernin, be
> right?
The United States should be so lucky to have only 1,100 acts of violence a
day.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/bjsg02.pdf
|
| | |
Date: 07 Dec 2006 09:42:25
From: multi
Subject: Re: James Baker is a gay commie hippie
|
On Thu, 7 Dec 2006 07:39:30 -0600, "the Moderator"
<sparky@no_spam_engineer.com > wrote:
>"multi" <multi@asm.org> wrote in message
>news:0bpfn2l7ovj1ugphbh7j8u5g5mm60r3jrs@4ax.com...
>> Some goobers in this group jeered at the Johns Hopkins study that
>> reported hundreds of thousands of Iraqi deaths from our invasion.
>> They said that the military claimed the number was more like 60,000
>> (only!), so how could those eggheads, with all their book lernin, be
>> right?
>
>The United States should be so lucky to have only 1,100 acts of violence a
>day.
>
>http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/bjsg02.pdf
First, why do you consistently change the subject of my posts to
remove the "OT"?
Second, what am I supposed to find in your reference? It looks like
Ashcroft did his usual great job, because I looked in the Table of
Contents for crime stats, and the only thing that seemed relevant was
"General criminal justice statistics," which it tells me is on page
26. Except that it's not on page 26, or anywhere else in the damn
thing.
I did find a bit about murders in the US, on page 7. It said that the
murder rate in the US peaked in 1980, at 10.2 per 100K per year, and
was at 9.8 in 1991, but was down to 5.7 by 1999 (that damn Clinton
again), the last year for which Ashcroft's crack staff had data for
this 2002 report.
Let's call it 6, and let's say that there were already 300M people in
the US in 1999. That would make 18,000 murders in the US in a year.
According to the ISG report (Section A.1), 3,000 Iraqi civilians are
killed each month. That doesn't count the Iraqi security forces,
army, or police, or the Americans (military and mercenaries) being
killed, and it doesn't count the unreported killings. It's probably
safe to say that there are over 40,000 murders a year. And that's in a
country of less than 27 million people, making their murder rate over
20 times as high as the US rate. And it also ignores the fact that if
you are standing next to a someone who gets shot in the US, you are
likely not injured. If you are standing next to someone killed by a
bomb or RPG in Iraq, you are likely maimed for life. So if you
include severe injuries, the US rate might go up by 5 or 10 percent,
while the Iraq rate will probably go up by 300 or 400 percent.
So exactly what was your point?
|
| | | |
Date: 07 Dec 2006 12:05:00
From: Bobby Knight
Subject: Re: James Baker is a gay commie hippie
|
On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 09:42:25 -0800, multi <multi@asm.org > wrote:
>On Thu, 7 Dec 2006 07:39:30 -0600, "the Moderator"
>>The United States should be so lucky to have only 1,100 acts of violence a
>>day.
>>
>>http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/bjsg02.pdf
>
>First, why do you consistently change the subject of my posts to
>remove the "OT"?
>
>Second, what am I supposed to find in your reference? It looks like
>Ashcroft did his usual great job, because I looked in the Table of
>Contents for crime stats, and the only thing that seemed relevant was
>"General criminal justice statistics," which it tells me is on page
>26. Except that it's not on page 26, or anywhere else in the damn
>thing.
>
>I did find a bit about murders in the US, on page 7. It said that the
>murder rate in the US peaked in 1980, at 10.2 per 100K per year, and
>was at 9.8 in 1991, but was down to 5.7 by 1999 (that damn Clinton
>again), the last year for which Ashcroft's crack staff had data for
>this 2002 report.
>
>Let's call it 6, and let's say that there were already 300M people in
>the US in 1999. That would make 18,000 murders in the US in a year.
>
>According to the ISG report (Section A.1), 3,000 Iraqi civilians are
>killed each month. That doesn't count the Iraqi security forces,
>army, or police, or the Americans (military and mercenaries) being
>killed, and it doesn't count the unreported killings. It's probably
>safe to say that there are over 40,000 murders a year. And that's in a
>country of less than 27 million people, making their murder rate over
>20 times as high as the US rate. And it also ignores the fact that if
>you are standing next to a someone who gets shot in the US, you are
>likely not injured. If you are standing next to someone killed by a
>bomb or RPG in Iraq, you are likely maimed for life. So if you
>include severe injuries, the US rate might go up by 5 or 10 percent,
>while the Iraq rate will probably go up by 300 or 400 percent.
>
>So exactly what was your point?
The top of his head.
___,
\o
|
| | | |
Date: 07 Dec 2006 13:29:48
From: the Moderator
Subject: Re: James Baker is a gay commie hippie
|
"multi" <multi@asm.org > wrote in message
news:slign2hchq8rv2rtoo3b8gsde91kbpvpto@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 7 Dec 2006 07:39:30 -0600, "the Moderator"
>
> First, why do you consistently change the subject of my posts to
> remove the "OT"?
Maybe it is my news reader. I don't ever change the subject line. I will
have to test that.
The wonderful thing about the Baker report is that it makes everyone feel
good. It allows politicians to avoid making decisions and there is no
requirement that the report be used for policy.
|
| | | | |
Date: 07 Dec 2006 22:29:28
From: George Orwell
Subject: Re: James Baker is a gay commie hippie
|
In article <UMqdnRN8Euku9uXYnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@centurytel.net >
"the Moderator" <sparky@no_spam_engineer.com > wrote:
>
>
> "multi" <multi@asm.org> wrote in message
> news:slign2hchq8rv2rtoo3b8gsde91kbpvpto@4ax.com...
> > On Thu, 7 Dec 2006 07:39:30 -0600, "the Moderator"
> >
> > First, why do you consistently change the subject of my posts to
> > remove the "OT"?
>
> Maybe it is my news reader. I don't ever change the subject line. I will
> have to test that.
>
> The wonderful thing about the Baker report is that it makes everyone feel
> good. It allows politicians to avoid making decisions and there is no
> requirement that the report be used for policy.
And it allows a dupe like Tony Snow to stand in front of an audience of
people in the know and, with a straight face, try and fail to convince
that audience and everyone else that this finding is just what the
president is looking for and consistent with his policies on Iraq?
WTFFFFFFFFFFFFF?
|
| | | |
Date: 12 Dec 2006 08:13:44
From: John B.
Subject: Re: James Baker is a gay commie hippie
|
the Moderator wrote:
> "Head Shot" <HeadShot@ThePinkMist.com> wrote in message
> news:V7Keh.944$U6.919@bigfe9...
> >
> > It's all just posturing. Iran would never use nukes or sell nukes.
> They
> > want to be in a stronger position to trade with the West and are
> mistakenly
> > thinking being in the nuke club gets them that. Israel has 300 to 400
> nukes
> > and Iran thinks getting some of their own validates them as a world
> player.
> >
>
> Where does your certainty come from? I think it is far more likely that
> they will use them to wipe out Israel and become martyrs.
It would take a sizeable arsenal to wipe out all of Israel, and the
means to get the warheads there. Your prediction holds that the Iranian
regime would willingly trade having their country turned into a parking
lot for the destruction of Israel. I think that's a stretch, to say the
least.
|
| | | | |
Date: 12 Dec 2006 12:31:15
From: Head Shot
Subject: Re: James Baker is a gay commie hippie
|
John B. wrote:
> It would take a sizeable arsenal to wipe out all of Israel, and the
> means to get the warheads there. Your prediction holds that the
> Iranian regime would willingly trade having their country turned into
> a parking lot for the destruction of Israel. I think that's a
> stretch, to say the least.
I agree - I do not see this happening. Israel has somewhere between 400
and 500 nuclear ICBM's; and even has a few submarines now. She could park
off the coast of Iran and lay the country to waste.
|
| | |
Date: 07 Dec 2006 11:00:55
From: Bobby Knight
Subject: Re: James Baker is a gay commie hippie
|
On Thu, 7 Dec 2006 07:39:30 -0600, "the Moderator"
<sparky@no_spam_engineer.com > wrote:
>
>"multi" <multi@asm.org> wrote in message
>news:0bpfn2l7ovj1ugphbh7j8u5g5mm60r3jrs@4ax.com...
>> Some goobers in this group jeered at the Johns Hopkins study that
>> reported hundreds of thousands of Iraqi deaths from our invasion.
>> They said that the military claimed the number was more like 60,000
>> (only!), so how could those eggheads, with all their book lernin, be
>> right?
>
>The United States should be so lucky to have only 1,100 acts of violence a
>day.
>
>http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/bjsg02.pdf
>
This was a 2002 survey, which may, or may not, be less than 2006. The
underlying question to anyone with a brain is; how many of the acts of
violence a day in the U.S. takes 20-60 lives?
___,
\o
|
| | | |
Date: 07 Dec 2006 13:24:19
From: the Moderator
Subject: Re: James Baker is a gay commie hippie
|
"Bobby Knight" <bknight@conramp.net > wrote in message
news:12ign29irsacv52hv9ddnbigeageokea4j@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 7 Dec 2006 07:39:30 -0600, "the Moderator"
> <sparky@no_spam_engineer.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >"multi" <multi@asm.org> wrote in message
> >news:0bpfn2l7ovj1ugphbh7j8u5g5mm60r3jrs@4ax.com...
> >> Some goobers in this group jeered at the Johns Hopkins study that
> >> reported hundreds of thousands of Iraqi deaths from our invasion.
> >> They said that the military claimed the number was more like 60,000
> >> (only!), so how could those eggheads, with all their book lernin, be
> >> right?
> >
> >The United States should be so lucky to have only 1,100 acts of violence
a
> >day.
> >
> >http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/bjsg02.pdf
> >
> This was a 2002 survey, which may, or may not, be less than 2006. The
> underlying question to anyone with a brain is; how many of the acts of
> violence a day in the U.S. takes 20-60 lives?
The 2005 average murder rate in the US was 45.7 people per day.
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm
|
| | | | |
Date: 07 Dec 2006 22:14:22
From: George Orwell
Subject: Re: James Baker is a gay commie hippie
|
In article <T5Cdnb5DyPr09-XYnZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@centurytel.net >
"the Moderator" <sparky@no_spam_engineer.com > wrote:
>
>
> "Bobby Knight" <bknight@conramp.net> wrote in message
> news:12ign29irsacv52hv9ddnbigeageokea4j@4ax.com...
> > On Thu, 7 Dec 2006 07:39:30 -0600, "the Moderator"
> > <sparky@no_spam_engineer.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >"multi" <multi@asm.org> wrote in message
> > >news:0bpfn2l7ovj1ugphbh7j8u5g5mm60r3jrs@4ax.com...
> > >> Some goobers in this group jeered at the Johns Hopkins study that
> > >> reported hundreds of thousands of Iraqi deaths from our invasion.
> > >> They said that the military claimed the number was more like 60,000
> > >> (only!), so how could those eggheads, with all their book lernin, be
> > >> right?
> > >
> > >The United States should be so lucky to have only 1,100 acts of violence
> a
> > >day.
> > >
> > >http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/bjsg02.pdf
> > >
> > This was a 2002 survey, which may, or may not, be less than 2006. The
> > underlying question to anyone with a brain is; how many of the acts of
> > violence a day in the U.S. takes 20-60 lives?
>
> The 2005 average murder rate in the US was 45.7 people per day.
>
> http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm
As I have noted before, there is really NOTING moderate about you is
there? Tell us again why you're not over there helping the bush-bots make
things better?????
|
| | | | |
Date: 07 Dec 2006 13:29:55
From: Bobby Knight
Subject: Re: James Baker is a gay commie hippie
|
On Thu, 7 Dec 2006 13:24:19 -0600, "the Moderator"
<sparky@no_spam_engineer.com > wrote:
>
>"Bobby Knight" <bknight@conramp.net> wrote in message
>news:12ign29irsacv52hv9ddnbigeageokea4j@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 7 Dec 2006 07:39:30 -0600, "the Moderator"
>> <sparky@no_spam_engineer.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"multi" <multi@asm.org> wrote in message
>> >news:0bpfn2l7ovj1ugphbh7j8u5g5mm60r3jrs@4ax.com...
>> >> Some goobers in this group jeered at the Johns Hopkins study that
>> >> reported hundreds of thousands of Iraqi deaths from our invasion.
>> >> They said that the military claimed the number was more like 60,000
>> >> (only!), so how could those eggheads, with all their book lernin, be
>> >> right?
>> >
>> >The United States should be so lucky to have only 1,100 acts of violence
>a
>> >day.
>> >
>> >http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/bjsg02.pdf
>> >
>> This was a 2002 survey, which may, or may not, be less than 2006. The
>> underlying question to anyone with a brain is; how many of the acts of
>> violence a day in the U.S. takes 20-60 lives?
>
>The 2005 average murder rate in the US was 45.7 people per day.
>
>http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm
>
Go back and extrapolate those numbers for a country of 300 million as
opposed to one of 27 million. Do you just not get it?
___,
\o
|
| | | | | |
Date: 07 Dec 2006 16:14:17
From: the Moderator
Subject: Re: James Baker is a gay commie hippie
|
"Bobby Knight" <bknight@conramp.net > wrote in message
news:9sqgn2d0m11jr6drsnlklct5q5kj3qh2kf@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 7 Dec 2006 13:24:19 -0600, "the Moderator"
> <sparky@no_spam_engineer.com> wrote:
> >
> Go back and extrapolate those numbers for a country of 300 million as
> opposed to one of 27 million. Do you just not get it?
I get it. There is a war in Iraq. Lots of bombs and things that kill
people. Whereas in your own neighborhood you don't even notice the dead
bodies.
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 08 Dec 2006 00:30:20
From: George Orwell
Subject: Re: James Baker is a gay commie hippie
|
In article <CJGdnUd2hPOnD-XYnZ2dnUVZ_umlnZ2d@centurytel.net >
"the Moderator" <sparky@no_spam_engineer.com > wrote:
>
>
> "Bobby Knight" <bknight@conramp.net> wrote in message
> news:9sqgn2d0m11jr6drsnlklct5q5kj3qh2kf@4ax.com...
> > On Thu, 7 Dec 2006 13:24:19 -0600, "the Moderator"
> > <sparky@no_spam_engineer.com> wrote:
> > >
> > Go back and extrapolate those numbers for a country of 300 million as
> > opposed to one of 27 million. Do you just not get it?
>
> I get it. There is a war in Iraq. Lots of bombs and things that kill
> people. Whereas in your own neighborhood you don't even notice the dead
> bodies.
And again you're typing and not fighting over there for what reason???????
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 07 Dec 2006 16:56:09
From: Bobby Knight
Subject: Re: James Baker is a gay commie hippie
|
On Thu, 7 Dec 2006 16:14:17 -0600, "the Moderator"
<sparky@no_spam_engineer.com > wrote:
>
>"Bobby Knight" <bknight@conramp.net> wrote in message
>news:9sqgn2d0m11jr6drsnlklct5q5kj3qh2kf@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 7 Dec 2006 13:24:19 -0600, "the Moderator"
>> <sparky@no_spam_engineer.com> wrote:
>> >
>> Go back and extrapolate those numbers for a country of 300 million as
>> opposed to one of 27 million. Do you just not get it?
>
>I get it. There is a war in Iraq. Lots of bombs and things that kill
>people. Whereas in your own neighborhood you don't even notice the dead
>bodies.
>
No, you don't get it. You stated "The United States should be so
lucky to have only 1,100 acts of violence a day." Meaning that the
violence in the U.S. is higher than in Iraq. Those 1,00 acts of
violence a day here is spread over 300 million in an area of
approximately 6,000,000 square miles. Iraq has a population of 27
million in an area of 437,072 square miles.
Do you actually think that there is more violence here? Possibly the
number of occurances, but certainly not the resulting body count,
especially considering the area and population differential.
Surely you have the common sense to figure this out.
Incidentallly, I have never lived in a neighborhood where a dead body
was found resulting from violence.
___,
\o
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 07 Dec 2006 19:47:34
From: Jack Hollis
Subject: Re: James Baker is a gay commie hippie
|
On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 16:56:09 -0600, Bobby Knight <bknight@conramp.net >
wrote:
>Incidentallly, I have never lived in a neighborhood where a dead body
>was found resulting from violence.
Really, how did the dead bodies get there?
|
| | |
Date: 07 Dec 2006 21:29:11
From: George Orwell
Subject: Re: James Baker is a gay commie hippie
|
In article <XuudnR3s-oUOhOXYnZ2dnUVZ_rednZ2d@centurytel.net >
"the Moderator" <sparky@no_spam_engineer.com > wrote:
>
>
> "multi" <multi@asm.org> wrote in message
> news:0bpfn2l7ovj1ugphbh7j8u5g5mm60r3jrs@4ax.com...
> > Some goobers in this group jeered at the Johns Hopkins study that
> > reported hundreds of thousands of Iraqi deaths from our invasion.
> > They said that the military claimed the number was more like 60,000
> > (only!), so how could those eggheads, with all their book lernin, be
> > right?
>
> The United States should be so lucky to have only 1,100 acts of violence a
> day.
>
> http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/bjsg02.pdf
Those acts of violence in the US are not perpetrated by a nation with its
own agenda to elect a president, to force its own brand of democracy when
it doesn't even know what that is itself, and set us all free of tyrants
and make us better........all the while, drawing more and more terrorists
to the region and causing a civil war.
|
| |
Date: 07 Dec 2006 15:47:40
From:
Subject: Re: James Baker is a gay commie hippie
|
Muslims killing Muslims. Hey, maybe W isnt so dumb after all.
George Orwell wrote:
> In article <XuudnR3s-oUOhOXYnZ2dnUVZ_rednZ2d@centurytel.net>
> "the Moderator" <sparky@no_spam_engineer.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > "multi" <multi@asm.org> wrote in message
> > news:0bpfn2l7ovj1ugphbh7j8u5g5mm60r3jrs@4ax.com...
> > > Some goobers in this group jeered at the Johns Hopkins study that
> > > reported hundreds of thousands of Iraqi deaths from our invasion.
> > > They said that the military claimed the number was more like 60,000
> > > (only!), so how could those eggheads, with all their book lernin, be
> > > right?
> >
> > The United States should be so lucky to have only 1,100 acts of violence a
> > day.
> >
> > http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/bjsg02.pdf
>
> Those acts of violence in the US are not perpetrated by a nation with its
> own agenda to elect a president, to force its own brand of democracy when
> it doesn't even know what that is itself, and set us all free of tyrants
> and make us better........all the while, drawing more and more terrorists
> to the region and causing a civil war.
|
| | |
Date: 08 Dec 2006 02:01:38
From: George Orwell
Subject: Re: James Baker is a gay commie hippie
|
In article <1165535260.716810.263190@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com >
lobshot694@bellsouth.net wrote:
>
> Muslims killing Muslims. Hey, maybe W isnt so dumb after all.
>
So says the top posting dullard from bellsouth, adding one more bit of
ignorance in the world, "isnt" that right?
(Is that the way a good Christian should think?)
|
| | |
Date: 07 Dec 2006 19:50:59
From: Jack Hollis
Subject: Re: James Baker is a gay commie hippie
|
On 7 Dec 2006 15:47:40 -0800, lobshot694@bellsouth.net wrote:
>Muslims killing Muslims. Hey, maybe W isnt so dumb after all.
I'm sure that W would rather see a peaceful, pro-west democracy in
Iraq, but if Shia and Sunni insist on killing each other, then so be
it. It's better that having Saddam still in charge.
|
| | | |
Date: 07 Dec 2006 19:13:50
From: Birdie Bill
Subject: Re: Gulbis video
|
On Dec 7, 10:29 am, "Tighthead" <tighth...@lawyer.com > wrote:
> Birdie Bill wrote:
> > On Dec 7, 12:03 am, "Tighthead" <tighth...@lawyer.com> wrote:
> > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0bNwocp4Ig
>
> > > I have trouble believing that she would risk braining the guy.
>
> > It was her dad.That seems more possible, but still could be staged.
They showed it on one of her shows. Yeah, maybe staged,
or maybe not. I've known daughters who would do things like
that to their dads.
|
| |
Date: 07 Dec 2006 15:25:59
From:
Subject: Re: James Baker is a gay commie hippie
|
Iraqi's killing Iraqi's. In the name of religion.
These are people who do not even understand the concept of freedom and
democracy.
These creatures are right out of the stone age.
multi wrote:
> On Thu, 7 Dec 2006 07:39:30 -0600, "the Moderator"
> <sparky@no_spam_engineer.com> wrote:
> >"multi" <multi@asm.org> wrote in message
> >news:0bpfn2l7ovj1ugphbh7j8u5g5mm60r3jrs@4ax.com...
> >> Some goobers in this group jeered at the Johns Hopkins study that
> >> reported hundreds of thousands of Iraqi deaths from our invasion.
> >> They said that the military claimed the number was more like 60,000
> >> (only!), so how could those eggheads, with all their book lernin, be
> >> right?
> >
> >The United States should be so lucky to have only 1,100 acts of violence a
> >day.
> >
> >http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/bjsg02.pdf
>
> First, why do you consistently change the subject of my posts to
> remove the "OT"?
>
> Second, what am I supposed to find in your reference? It looks like
> Ashcroft did his usual great job, because I looked in the Table of
> Contents for crime stats, and the only thing that seemed relevant was
> "General criminal justice statistics," which it tells me is on page
> 26. Except that it's not on page 26, or anywhere else in the damn
> thing.
>
> I did find a bit about murders in the US, on page 7. It said that the
> murder rate in the US peaked in 1980, at 10.2 per 100K per year, and
> was at 9.8 in 1991, but was down to 5.7 by 1999 (that damn Clinton
> again), the last year for which Ashcroft's crack staff had data for
> this 2002 report.
>
> Let's call it 6, and let's say that there were already 300M people in
> the US in 1999. That would make 18,000 murders in the US in a year.
>
> According to the ISG report (Section A.1), 3,000 Iraqi civilians are
> killed each month. That doesn't count the Iraqi security forces,
> army, or police, or the Americans (military and mercenaries) being
> killed, and it doesn't count the unreported killings. It's probably
> safe to say that there are over 40,000 murders a year. And that's in a
> country of less than 27 million people, making their murder rate over
> 20 times as high as the US rate. And it also ignores the fact that if
> you are standing next to a someone who gets shot in the US, you are
> likely not injured. If you are standing next to someone killed by a
> bomb or RPG in Iraq, you are likely maimed for life. So if you
> include severe injuries, the US rate might go up by 5 or 10 percent,
> while the Iraq rate will probably go up by 300 or 400 percent.
>
> So exactly what was your point?
|
| |
Date: 07 Dec 2006 14:14:05
From: Fairway
Subject: Re: OT: James Baker is a gay commie hippie
|
It took Charlemagne decades of warfare to Christianize the Saxons.
Perseverance is the keyword. F
multi wrote:
> Some goobers in this group jeered at the Johns Hopkins study that
> reported hundreds of thousands of Iraqi deaths from our invasion.
> They said that the military claimed the number was more like 60,000
> (only!), so how could those eggheads, with all their book lernin, be
> right?
>
> Well, here's how, according to the report of the Iraq Study Group,
> Bush's "bipartisan" hand-picked fact-finding team:
>
> "In addition, there is significant underreporting of the violence in
> Iraq... For example, on one day in July 2006 there were 93 attacks or
> significant acts of violence reported [by our military]. Yet a careful
> review of the reports for that single day brought to light 1,100 acts
> of violence. Good policy is difficult to make when information is
> systematically collected in a way that minimizes its discrepancy with
> policy goals."
>
> Gee whiz, what a surprise. Bush says we're makin progress, so the
> military gives him what he wants by failing to acknowledge over 90% of
> the violent incidents reported. And god only knows how many incidents
> of violence directed at Iraqis went completely unreported. Given our
> warm relations with the Iraqis, and the fact (noted elsewhere in the
> ISG report) that out of the 1,000 people in our embassy there, only
> six are fluent in Arabic, I'd guess well over half. Nice to see that
> we have learned our lesson about poor intelligence gathering and
> processing.
>
> By the way, the reason I put "bipartisan" in quotes above is that this
> team is bipartisan only in the sense that some of the people on it
> call themselves Democrats. But as Senator Feingold noted today, none
> of the people on the team were against the invasion, and neither were
> any of the people whom they called to testify. Because we wouldn't
> want to get input from anybody who was, you know, RIGHT about the war.
|
| | |
Date: 07 Dec 2006 17:00:05
From: multi
Subject: Re: OT: James Baker is a gay commie hippie
|
On 7 Dec 2006 14:14:05 -0800, "Fairway" <arminsson@yahoo.com > wrote:
>It took Charlemagne decades of warfare to Christianize the Saxons.
Correct. He did that about the same time that Islam was conquering
much of the Middle East and North Africa.
Of course, there is no comparison between the way the two religions
were spread. Charlemagne gave the Saxons the choice of conversion to
Christianity, or death. He beheaded thousands of people whom he
thought had backslid after their conversion.
Meanwhile, Islam allowed people in conquered regions to continue
practicing their religion, but charged non-Muslims a tax. How
barbaric!
|
| |
Date: 07 Dec 2006 11:44:16
From: John B.
Subject: Re: James Baker is a gay commie hippie
|
the Moderator wrote:
> "multi" <multi@asm.org> wrote in message
> news:slign2hchq8rv2rtoo3b8gsde91kbpvpto@4ax.com...
> > On Thu, 7 Dec 2006 07:39:30 -0600, "the Moderator"
> >
> > First, why do you consistently change the subject of my posts to
> > remove the "OT"?
>
> Maybe it is my news reader. I don't ever change the subject line. I will
> have to test that.
>
> The wonderful thing about the Baker report is that it makes everyone feel
> good. It allows politicians to avoid making decisions and there is no
> requirement that the report be used for policy.
Does it make you feel good? It certainly doesn't have that effect on
me. Do you think it makes Bush, Cheney et al feel good to have a
distinguished bi-partisan panel judge their attempt to change the world
a dismal, abject and catastrophic failure?
|
| | |
Date: 07 Dec 2006 16:15:36
From: the Moderator
Subject: Re: James Baker is a gay commie hippie
|
"John B." <johnb505@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1165520656.556473.233660@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Does it make you feel good? It certainly doesn't have that effect on
> me. Do you think it makes Bush, Cheney et al feel good to have a
> distinguished bi-partisan panel judge their attempt to change the world
> a dismal, abject and catastrophic failure?
I would have to see the quote on that.
|
| | | |
Date: 08 Dec 2006 00:15:11
From: George Orwell
Subject: Re: James Baker is a gay commie hippie
|
In article <Y_KdnYOlHqUXD-XYnZ2dnUVZ_uadnZ2d@centurytel.net >
"the Moderator" <sparky@no_spam_engineer.com > wrote:
>
>
> "John B." <johnb505@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1165520656.556473.233660@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...
> >
> >
> > Does it make you feel good? It certainly doesn't have that effect on
> > me. Do you think it makes Bush, Cheney et al feel good to have a
> > distinguished bi-partisan panel judge their attempt to change the world
> > a dismal, abject and catastrophic failure?
>
> I would have to see the quote on that.
Come out from under the rock, remove that head from where you usally keep
it and hit google. There are thousands of sites with just what you need.
Are you heading for the recuiting office tomorrow or waiting until after
the holidays?
|
| |
Date: 07 Dec 2006 11:08:01
From: Dene
Subject: Re: James Baker is a gay commie hippie
|
multi wrote:
> On Thu, 7 Dec 2006 07:39:30 -0600, "the Moderator"
> <sparky@no_spam_engineer.com> wrote:
> >"multi" <multi@asm.org> wrote in message
> >news:0bpfn2l7ovj1ugphbh7j8u5g5mm60r3jrs@4ax.com...
> >> Some goobers in this group jeered at the Johns Hopkins study that
> >> reported hundreds of thousands of Iraqi deaths from our invasion.
> >> They said that the military claimed the number was more like 60,000
> >> (only!), so how could those eggheads, with all their book lernin, be
> >> right?
> >
> >The United States should be so lucky to have only 1,100 acts of violence a
> >day.
> >
> >http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/bjsg02.pdf
>
> First, why do you consistently change the subject of my posts to
> remove the "OT"?
>
> Second, what am I supposed to find in your reference? It looks like
> Ashcroft did his usual great job, because I looked in the Table of
> Contents for crime stats, and the only thing that seemed relevant was
> "General criminal justice statistics," which it tells me is on page
> 26. Except that it's not on page 26, or anywhere else in the damn
> thing.
>
> I did find a bit about murders in the US, on page 7. It said that the
> murder rate in the US peaked in 1980, at 10.2 per 100K per year, and
> was at 9.8 in 1991, but was down to 5.7 by 1999 (that damn Clinton
> again), the last year for which Ashcroft's crack staff had data for
> this 2002 report.
>
> Let's call it 6, and let's say that there were already 300M people in
> the US in 1999. That would make 18,000 murders in the US in a year.
>
> According to the ISG report (Section A.1), 3,000 Iraqi civilians are
> killed each month. That doesn't count the Iraqi security forces,
> army, or police, or the Americans (military and mercenaries) being
> killed, and it doesn't count the unreported killings. It's probably
> safe to say that there are over 40,000 murders a year. And that's in a
> country of less than 27 million people, making their murder rate over
> 20 times as high as the US rate. And it also ignores the fact that if
> you are standing next to a someone who gets shot in the US, you are
> likely not injured. If you are standing next to someone killed by a
> bomb or RPG in Iraq, you are likely maimed for life. So if you
> include severe injuries, the US rate might go up by 5 or 10 percent,
> while the Iraq rate will probably go up by 300 or 400 percent.
>
> So exactly what was your point?
Well said Multi. My only advice is to consider the source when it
comes to cracks about your intelligence. The Knipper doesn't have much
of a life.
As for the report, I thought is was fair and should be implemented
immediately. Reaching out to Iran and Syria is a good idea, in that if
they rebuff us, it will show their true colors to other Arab countries.
OTOH, they might cooperate in stabilizing Iraq.
-Greg
|
| | |
Date: 07 Dec 2006 16:17:20
From: the Moderator
Subject: Re: James Baker is a gay commie hippie
|
"Dene" <gdstrue@aol.com > wrote in message
news:1165518480.995965.130500@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> As for the report, I thought is was fair and should be implemented
> immediately. Reaching out to Iran and Syria is a good idea, in that if
> they rebuff us, it will show their true colors to other Arab countries.
> OTOH, they might cooperate in stabilizing Iraq.
>
Reaching out to Iran and Syria is what got the situation in the Mid-East
started. Time for some history lessons boys.
|
| | | |
Date: 07 Dec 2006 19:46:01
From: Jack Hollis
Subject: Re: James Baker is a gay commie hippie
|
On Thu, 7 Dec 2006 16:17:20 -0600, "the Moderator"
<sparky@no_spam_engineer.com > wrote:
>Reaching out to Iran and Syria is what got the situation in the Mid-East
>started. Time for some history lessons boys.
I have no idea who's idea it was to get Iran and Syria to try to help
with Iraq, but whoever he is, he's an idiot.
|
| | | |
Date: 07 Dec 2006 23:45:03
From: George Orwell
Subject: Re: James Baker is a gay commie hippie
|
In article <wvadnX_e07tsD-XYnZ2dnUVZ_qudnZ2d@centurytel.net >
"the Moderator" <sparky@no_spam_engineer.com > wrote:
>
>
> "Dene" <gdstrue@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1165518480.995965.130500@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
> >
> >
> > As for the report, I thought is was fair and should be implemented
> > immediately. Reaching out to Iran and Syria is a good idea, in that if
> > they rebuff us, it will show their true colors to other Arab countries.
> > OTOH, they might cooperate in stabilizing Iraq.
> >
>
> Reaching out to Iran and Syria is what got the situation in the Mid-East
> started. Time for some history lessons boys.
You mean like the one bush didn't learn with vietnam????
|
| |
Date: 08 Dec 2006 06:43:36
From: John B.
Subject: Re: James Baker is a gay commie hippie
|
the Moderator wrote:
> "John B." <johnb505@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1165520656.556473.233660@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...
> >
> >
> > Does it make you feel good? It certainly doesn't have that effect on
> > me. Do you think it makes Bush, Cheney et al feel good to have a
> > distinguished bi-partisan panel judge their attempt to change the world
> > a dismal, abject and catastrophic failure?
>
> I would have to see the quote on that.
That doesn't really answer my question, does it?
|
| |
Date: 08 Dec 2006 06:42:00
From: John B.
Subject: Re: James Baker is a gay commie hippie
|
Jack Hollis wrote:
> On Thu, 7 Dec 2006 16:17:20 -0600, "the Moderator"
> <sparky@no_spam_engineer.com> wrote:
>
> >Reaching out to Iran and Syria is what got the situation in the Mid-East
> >started. Time for some history lessons boys.
>
> I have no idea who's idea it was to get Iran and Syria to try to help
> with Iraq, but whoever he is, he's an idiot.
Yeah, Jim Baker, Lee Hamilton, Sandra Day O'Connor, Chuck Robb -- all
the members of the Iraq Study Group who unanimously endorsed that
proposal -- are a bunch of fucking idiots. They should have had you
there to set them straight.
|
| | |
Date: 08 Dec 2006 11:28:45
From: Jack Hollis
Subject: Re: James Baker is a gay commie hippie
|
On 8 Dec 2006 06:42:00 -0800, "John B." <johnb505@gmail.com > wrote:
>Yeah, Jim Baker, Lee Hamilton, Sandra Day O'Connor, Chuck Robb -- all
>the members of the Iraq Study Group who unanimously endorsed that
>proposal -- are a bunch of fucking idiots.
If they think that Iran and Syria will help, then fucking idiots is a
good description of them.
|
| |
Date: 08 Dec 2006 06:37:47
From: John B.
Subject: Re: James Baker is a gay commie hippie
|
the Moderator wrote:
> "Dene" <gdstrue@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1165518480.995965.130500@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
> >
> >
> > As for the report, I thought is was fair and should be implemented
> > immediately. Reaching out to Iran and Syria is a good idea, in that if
> > they rebuff us, it will show their true colors to other Arab countries.
> > OTOH, they might cooperate in stabilizing Iraq.
> >
>
> Reaching out to Iran and Syria is what got the situation in the Mid-East
> started. Time for some history lessons boys.
Ok, Mr. Historian, why don't you expand on this premise? Who reached
out to Iran and Syria and when? And how did that get "the situation in
the Middle East" started? Does the conflict between Israel and the
Palestinians not play into it in some fashion? I'm sure we all
breathlessly await your wisdom.
|
| |
Date: 08 Dec 2006 16:22:38
From: John B.
Subject: Re: James Baker is a gay commie hippie
|
Jack Hollis wrote:
> On 8 Dec 2006 11:32:56 -0800, "John B." <johnb505@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Have you ever heard the expression "talk is cheap"? It's easy as pie
> >for you to claim that the members the Iraq Study Group are "idiots,"
> >because they made a proposal that you're not competent to understand.
> >Isn't Usenet wonderful that way? You can just say whaatever you want.
> >
>
> I'm competent enough to understand that Iran will not help the US.
> It's utter foolishness to think that they will.
>
>
> >The fact is, Jack, that Iran has already offered to help in exchange
> >for an agreed-upon timetable for US withdrawal from Iraq.
>
> Why should the US agree to withdraw on any terms other than what the
> US wants?
I didn't say we should. The point is that Iran has made an offer, which
you said was implausible.
>
> >There is alsothe fact that Iran and Syria are allies and a negotiated solution to
> >the Iraq disaster would allow them to remain so. A Sunni-Shia civil war
> >in Iraq, without US forces there to reduce the intensity of it, would
> >force Iran to side with the Shia and Syria with the Sunnis.
>
> Why should the US want Iran and Syria to remain allies?
You've missed the point again. Iran and Syria would like to remain
allies, so helping to negotiate a solution to the Iraq debacle is in
THEIR interest. Do you get it now?
|
| | |
Date: 09 Dec 2006 20:59:22
From: Jack Hollis
Subject: Re: James Baker is a gay commie hippie
|
On 8 Dec 2006 16:22:38 -0800, "John B." <johnb505@gmail.com > wrote:
>> Why should the US agree to withdraw on any terms other than what the
>> US wants?
>
>I didn't say we should. The point is that Iran has made an offer, which
>you said was implausible.
Their offer was based on the US setting a timetable for withdrawal.
That's not acceptable.
|
| |
Date: 08 Dec 2006 14:30:41
From:
Subject: Re: James Baker is a gay commie hippie
|
George Orwell wrote:
> In article <1165535260.716810.263190@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
> lobshot694@bellsouth.net wrote:
> >
> > Muslims killing Muslims. Hey, maybe W isnt so dumb after all.
> >
>
> So says the top posting dullard from bellsouth, adding one more bit of
> ignorance in the world, "isnt" that right?
> (Is that the way a good Christian should think?)
A missing apostrophe? You have an uncanny ability to zero right in on
the important stuff.
|
| |
Date: 08 Dec 2006 11:45:55
From: John B.
Subject: Re: James Baker is a gay commie hippie
|
Jack Hollis wrote:
> On 8 Dec 2006 06:42:00 -0800, "John B." <johnb505@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Yeah, Jim Baker, Lee Hamilton, Sandra Day O'Connor, Chuck Robb -- all
> >the members of the Iraq Study Group who unanimously endorsed that
> >proposal -- are a bunch of fucking idiots.
>
>
> If they think that Iran and Syria will help, then fucking idiots is a
> good description of them.
Have you ever heard the expression "talk is cheap"? It's easy as pie
for you to claim that the members the Iraq Study Group are "idiots,"
because they made a proposal that you're not competent to understand.
Isn't Usenet wonderful that way? You can just say whaatever you want.
The fact is, Jack, that Iran has already offered to help in exchange
for an agreed-upon timetable for US withdrawal from Iraq. There is also
the fact that Iran and Syria are allies and a negotiated solution to
the Iraq disaster would allow them to remain so. A Sunni-Shia civil war
in Iraq, without US forces there to reduce the intensity of it, would
force Iran to side with the Shia and Syria with the Sunnis. Then
there's the fact that both countries might feel they have something to
gain in helping the US in Iraq, despite their antipathy for us. Foreign
policy, about which you seem to think you know something, sometimes
works that way.
|
| |
Date: 08 Dec 2006 11:32:56
From: John B.
Subject: Re: James Baker is a gay commie hippie
|
Jack Hollis wrote:
> On 8 Dec 2006 06:42:00 -0800, "John B." <johnb505@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Yeah, Jim Baker, Lee Hamilton, Sandra Day O'Connor, Chuck Robb -- all
> >the members of the Iraq Study Group who unanimously endorsed that
> >proposal -- are a bunch of fucking idiots.
>
>
> If they think that Iran and Syria will help, then fucking idiots is a
> good description of them.
Have you ever heard the expression "talk is cheap"? It's easy as pie
for you to claim that the members the Iraq Study Group are "idiots,"
because they made a proposal that you're not competent to understand.
Isn't Usenet wonderful that way? You can just say whaatever you want.
The fact is, Jack, that Iran has already offered to help in exchange
for an agreed-upon timetable for US withdrawal from Iraq. There is also
the fact that Iran and Syria are allies and a negotiated solution to
the Iraq disaster would allow them to remain so. A Sunni-Shia civil war
in Iraq, without US forces there to reduce the intensity of it, would
force Iran to side with the Shia and Syria with the Sunnis. Then
there's the fact that both countries might feel they have something to
gain in helping the US in Iraq, despite their antipathy for us. Foreign
policy, about which you seem to think you know something, sometimes
works that way.
|
| | |
Date: 08 Dec 2006 16:45:19
From: Jack Hollis
Subject: Re: James Baker is a gay commie hippie
|
On 8 Dec 2006 11:32:56 -0800, "John B." <johnb505@gmail.com > wrote:
>Have you ever heard the expression "talk is cheap"? It's easy as pie
>for you to claim that the members the Iraq Study Group are "idiots,"
>because they made a proposal that you're not competent to understand.
>Isn't Usenet wonderful that way? You can just say whaatever you want.
>
I'm competent enough to understand that Iran will not help the US.
It's utter foolishness to think that they will.
>The fact is, Jack, that Iran has already offered to help in exchange
>for an agreed-upon timetable for US withdrawal from Iraq.
Why should the US agree to withdraw on any terms other than what the
US wants?
>There is alsothe fact that Iran and Syria are allies and a negotiated solution to
>the Iraq disaster would allow them to remain so. A Sunni-Shia civil war
>in Iraq, without US forces there to reduce the intensity of it, would
>force Iran to side with the Shia and Syria with the Sunnis.
Why should the US want Iran and Syria to remain allies?
|
|
