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Date: 20 Aug 2006 12:55:50
From: Ben.
Subject: Medinah #3 - slope of 158?!?
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And these guys are eating it for a lunch appetizer. My god, they are
not even human.
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Date: 20 Aug 2006 16:51:18
From: annika1980
Subject: Re: Medinah #3 - slope of 158?!?
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Tex wrote:
>
> Slope is only meaningful to non-scratch players...
I agree with Tex. Betcha you never thought you'd hear that, huh?
Slope Rating is a measure of difficulty for the "Bogey golfer."
The Course Rating is the true measure of a course's difficulty for the
scratch player.
You could build a course where every hole was 320 yards long with a
forced carry over water of 240 yards. Tiger would shoot in the 50's on
such a course while the bogey golfer would shoot a million. But you
put them on a tough track like the 7500 yard Medinah layout and Tiger
would be lucky to break 65.
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Date: 20 Aug 2006 23:46:08
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: Medinah #3 - slope of 158?!?
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On 20 Aug 2006 12:55:50 -0700, "Ben." <kombi45@yahoo.com > wrote:
>And these guys are eating it for a lunch appetizer. My god, they are
>not even human.
Rating is how scratch golfers are expected to play. Slope is how
much worse bogey golfers are expected to play.
These guys are better than scratch.
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Date: 20 Aug 2006 16:01:23
From: Ben.
Subject: Re: Medinah #3 - slope of 158?!?
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Tex wrote:
> Ben. wrote:
> > Tex wrote:
> >
> > > It gives you a good idea of what one of the top 50 players in the world
> > > would be able to do at your home course :)
> >
> > Funny you should say that. The Champions Tour stopped there a couple
> > of years back. While I know they aren't in the top 50, they are still
> > remarkable sticks. Anyway, there were exactly sub-70 two rounds.
> > Morris Hatalsky and one of the Wadkins bros, I guess Bobby. Meanwhile,
> > the other course on that stop got freaking eaten alive - several 63's,
> > lots of 66's and many sub-70 rounds. That course? Pebble Beach.
> > 73.8/142 from the tips.
>
> You are right, it's the champions tour...not the PGA boys.
> Bayonet requires length (sea level) and accuracy off the tee (tight
> through the cypress trees) and accuracy to the greens (small). It's a
> great test or a beating, depending on the game you bring that day.
The Nationwide used to stop there, and I played a week before the event
one year. Now, I was a single digit at the time, probably an eight or
nine. I shot 100 on that setup. It was US Open tough. The winning
score that week, I believe, was -5.
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Date: 20 Aug 2006 15:11:25
From: Tex
Subject: Re: Medinah #3 - slope of 158?!?
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Ben. wrote:
> Tex wrote:
>
> > It gives you a good idea of what one of the top 50 players in the world
> > would be able to do at your home course :)
>
> Funny you should say that. The Champions Tour stopped there a couple
> of years back. While I know they aren't in the top 50, they are still
> remarkable sticks. Anyway, there were exactly sub-70 two rounds.
> Morris Hatalsky and one of the Wadkins bros, I guess Bobby. Meanwhile,
> the other course on that stop got freaking eaten alive - several 63's,
> lots of 66's and many sub-70 rounds. That course? Pebble Beach.
> 73.8/142 from the tips.
You are right, it's the champions tour...not the PGA boys.
Bayonet requires length (sea level) and accuracy off the tee (tight
through the cypress trees) and accuracy to the greens (small). It's a
great test or a beating, depending on the game you bring that day.
Tex
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Date: 20 Aug 2006 13:42:39
From: Ben.
Subject: Re: Medinah #3 - slope of 158?!?
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Tex wrote:
> It gives you a good idea of what one of the top 50 players in the world
> would be able to do at your home course :)
Funny you should say that. The Champions Tour stopped there a couple
of years back. While I know they aren't in the top 50, they are still
remarkable sticks. Anyway, there were exactly sub-70 two rounds.
Morris Hatalsky and one of the Wadkins bros, I guess Bobby. Meanwhile,
the other course on that stop got freaking eaten alive - several 63's,
lots of 66's and many sub-70 rounds. That course? Pebble Beach.
73.8/142 from the tips.
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Date: 21 Aug 2006 01:34:29
From: uncle k
Subject: Re: Medinah #3 - slope of 158?!?
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"Ben." <kombi45@yahoo.com > wrote in message
>> Tex wrote:
>> It gives you a good idea of what one of the top 50 players in the world
>> would be able to do at your home course :)
> Funny you should say that. The Champions Tour stopped there a couple
> of years back. While I know they aren't in the top 50, they are still
> remarkable sticks.
...............
Several years ago, well beyond his prime, Trevino stopped by for an
exhibition round at Meridian Valley CC, Kent, WA, former home of the LPGA
Safeco Classic.* OK, it's not Medinah #3, but it's a solid, well manicured
course, which will punish mistakes in direct relation to their severity.
He'd never seen the course, rated about 72.0/126 from the mixture of tees he
played. While goofing around and sparring with the gallery, he giggled his
way to a course record 62.** Not too shabby. Tour pros ARE human. They
err in not grasping the concept of the Slope system.
Unc
* This event was mysteriously dropped when Safeco shelled out 40
gazillion to hang their name on the front of the Mariners ballpark.
** AFAIK, the current course record is still held by Hollis Stacy, who
went on a rampage during a weekend Safeco round, carding a 61 (-11). I was
sort of busy that morning, but I got to see some of her finishing holes.
She was slam-dunking everything from everywhere! Scary.
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Date: 20 Aug 2006 13:37:50
From: Tex
Subject: Re: Medinah #3 - slope of 158?!?
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Ben. wrote:
> Tex wrote:
> > Ben. wrote:
> > > And these guys are eating it for a lunch appetizer. My god, they are
> > > not even human.
> >
> > Slope is only meaningful to non-scratch players...
> >
> > Fromthe USGA:
> > Slope Rating=AE: A Slope Rating is the USGA=AE mark that indicates the
> > measurement of the relative playing difficulty of a course for players
> > who are not scratch golfers, compared to scratch golfers. It is
> > computed from the difference between the Bogey Rating and the USGA
> > Course Rating times a constant factor and is expressed as a whole
> > number from 55 to 155.
> >
> > It allows for several strokes to be added to your index for Medinah #3
> > :-))
>
> I was looking at it from this particular non-scratch golfer's
> perspective - and 158 is just about unfathomable to me. Bayonet, which
> I consider a _very_ stern examination of golf, runs at 74.0/134 from
> the blues (where I played from) consistently gave me fits. At my best,
> I turned in an 80...once. Granted It was* about 500 yards shorter than
> Medinah #3, but still....
>
> * - I say "was" because they are ripping it up and re-routing it for
> home development in the Seaside/Fort Ord area.
It gives you a good idea of what one of the top 50 players in the world
would be able to do at your home course :)
Michael Jordan is a 4.8 at Medinah...course handicap of 7...I'd bet
Tiger could give him 20 strokes today :)
Tex
p=2Es. "it's over Johnny"...start carving the trophy, nobody is catching
him.
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Date: 20 Aug 2006 16:36:32
From: sfb
Subject: Re: Medinah #3 - slope of 158?!?
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Slope is based on bogey golfer ratings so it is somewhat irrelevant measure
when talking about touring pros.
"Ben." <kombi45@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1156103750.171246.306620@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> And these guys are eating it for a lunch appetizer. My god, they are
> not even human.
>
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Date: 20 Aug 2006 13:33:21
From: Ben.
Subject: Re: Medinah #3 - slope of 158?!?
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Tex wrote:
> Ben. wrote:
> > And these guys are eating it for a lunch appetizer. My god, they are
> > not even human.
>
> Slope is only meaningful to non-scratch players...
>
> Fromthe USGA:
> Slope Rating=AE: A Slope Rating is the USGA=AE mark that indicates the
> measurement of the relative playing difficulty of a course for players
> who are not scratch golfers, compared to scratch golfers. It is
> computed from the difference between the Bogey Rating and the USGA
> Course Rating times a constant factor and is expressed as a whole
> number from 55 to 155.
>
> It allows for several strokes to be added to your index for Medinah #3
> :-))
I was looking at it from this particular non-scratch golfer's
perspective - and 158 is just about unfathomable to me. Bayonet, which
I consider a _very_ stern examination of golf, runs at 74.0/134 from
the blues (where I played from) consistently gave me fits. At my best,
I turned in an 80...once. Granted It was* about 500 yards shorter than
Medinah #3, but still....
* - I say "was" because they are ripping it up and re-routing it for
home development in the Seaside/Fort Ord area.
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Date: 20 Aug 2006 13:24:07
From: Tex
Subject: Re: Medinah #3 - slope of 158?!?
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Ben. wrote:
> And these guys are eating it for a lunch appetizer. My god, they are
> not even human.
Slope is only meaningful to non-scratch players...
Fromthe USGA:
Slope Rating=AE: A Slope Rating is the USGA=AE mark that indicates the
measurement of the relative playing difficulty of a course for players
who are not scratch golfers, compared to scratch golfers. It is
computed from the difference between the Bogey Rating and the USGA
Course Rating times a constant factor and is expressed as a whole
number from 55 to 155.
It allows for several strokes to be added to your index for Medinah #3
:-))
Tex
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Date: 20 Aug 2006 13:20:06
From: multi
Subject: Re: Medinah #3 - slope of 158?!?
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On 20 Aug 2006 12:55:50 -0700, "Ben." <kombi45@yahoo.com > wrote:
>And these guys are eating it for a lunch appetizer. My god, they are
>not even human.
Don't soil your keyboard.
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Date: 20 Aug 2006 20:09:42
From: uncle k
Subject: Re: Medinah #3 - slope of 158?!?
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"Ben." <kombi45@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1156103750.171246.306620@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> And these guys are eating it for a lunch appetizer. My god, they are
> not even human.
>
Nah, them be readin' 5-iron's "Tip of the Day." (The natural enemy of Slope
Ratings, BTW)
;-{
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Date: 20 Aug 2006 20:10:18
From: ruud
Subject: Re: Medinah #3 - slope of 158?!?
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On 20 Aug 2006 12:55:50 -0700, "Ben." <kombi45@yahoo.com > wrote:
>And these guys are eating it for a lunch appetizer. My god, they are
>not even human.
the slope is only relevant for mortals.
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Date: 21 Aug 2006 04:55:10
From: Larry Bud
Subject: Re: Medinah #3 - slope of 158?!?
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> It gives you a good idea of what one of the top 50 players in the world
> would be able to do at your home course :)
>
> Michael Jordan is a 4.8 at Medinah...course handicap of 7...I'd bet
> Tiger could give him 20 strokes today :)
He's a 4.8, but I doubt he plays from the tips on a regular basis.
BTW, www.medinahcc.org says the rating/slope is 78.1/151, not 158.
Hell, the whites are 74/140 from 6667 yards!
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Date: 21 Aug 2006 10:39:43
From: Bert Robbins
Subject: Re: Medinah #3 - slope of 158?!?
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Larry Bud wrote:
>> It gives you a good idea of what one of the top 50 players in the world
>> would be able to do at your home course :)
>>
>> Michael Jordan is a 4.8 at Medinah...course handicap of 7...I'd bet
>> Tiger could give him 20 strokes today :)
>
> He's a 4.8, but I doubt he plays from the tips on a regular basis.
> BTW, www.medinahcc.org says the rating/slope is 78.1/151, not 158.
Medinah CC doesn't have the course set up for the PGA Championship every
week. So, you slope would be a bit higher for this past weekends event.
> Hell, the whites are 74/140 from 6667 yards!
>
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Date: 21 Aug 2006 04:52:05
From: Larry Bud
Subject: Re: Medinah #3 - slope of 158?!?
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Tex wrote:
> Ben. wrote:
> > And these guys are eating it for a lunch appetizer. My god, they are
> > not even human.
>
> Slope is only meaningful to non-scratch players...
True, but the rating was > 78
So all of these 66's and 67's... -11, -12 differential... geez.
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Date: 21 Aug 2006 07:58:44
From: sfb
Subject: Re: Medinah #3 - slope of 158?!?
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Course ratings are based on scratch golfers hitting 250 yard tee shots. The
200th longest driver on the PGA Tour averages 264 so these guys are in
another universe compared to the USGA ratings scratch golfer.
"Larry Bud" <larrybud2002@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1156161125.066142.22060@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Tex wrote:
>> Ben. wrote:
>> > And these guys are eating it for a lunch appetizer. My god, they are
>> > not even human.
>>
>> Slope is only meaningful to non-scratch players...
>
> True, but the rating was > 78
>
> So all of these 66's and 67's... -11, -12 differential... geez.
>
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