It's the personal attacks, stupid!

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Date: 14 Nov 2006 06:42:07
From: The_Professor
Subject: It's the personal attacks, stupid!

The decline of all these usenet groups is due to personal attacks. They
all seem to accumulate a group of regulars whose main purpose is to
attack those who disagree with them. No one cares about OT posts, for
example. If you don't want to read a thread, don't! A lot of people,
and I mean *A LOT* of people aren't interested in posting if there is
much of a risk of personal attacks...so they don't...they also don't
want to participate in threads that include personal attacks.

I don't think George W Bush is stupid..so you disagree with me...you
have your reasons, I have mine, we can state the reasons, make an
arguement, challenge each other...but the line is crossed when the
personal attacks start.

It's why I won't post much on golf here. Certain people disagree with
something, like hitting a 186 yard low spinner from a grassy lie in the
woods, and you get bombarded with personal attacks because in their
opinion....and their opinion is all that matters...fine by me...the
personal attacks cause me to disrespect you...and you disrespect me
because I dare to disagree with you...fine by me...but don't expect too
much honest open posting from anyone if those are the rules!

Lidfe is all about forgiveness and tolerance. RSG is all about
intolerance and condemnation.

Date: 14 Nov 2006 10:02:24
From: Dene
Subject: Re: It's the personal attacks, stupid!

the Moderator wrote:
> "The_Professor" <dbid@att.net> wrote in message
> news:1163515327.141401.62960@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> > The decline of all these usenet groups is due to personal attacks. They
> > all seem to accumulate a group of regulars whose main purpose is to
> > attack those who disagree with them. No one cares about OT posts, for
> > example. If you don't want to read a thread, don't! A lot of people,
> > and I mean *A LOT* of people aren't interested in posting if there is
> > much of a risk of personal attacks...so they don't...they also don't
> > want to participate in threads that include personal attacks.
> >
> > I don't think George W Bush is stupid..so you disagree with me...you
> > have your reasons, I have mine, we can state the reasons, make an
> > arguement, challenge each other...but the line is crossed when the
> > personal attacks start.
> >
> > It's why I won't post much on golf here. Certain people disagree with
> > something, like hitting a 186 yard low spinner from a grassy lie in the
> > woods, and you get bombarded with personal attacks because in their
> > opinion....and their opinion is all that matters...fine by me...the
> > personal attacks cause me to disrespect you...and you disrespect me
> > because I dare to disagree with you...fine by me...but don't expect too
> > much honest open posting from anyone if those are the rules!
> >
> > Lidfe is all about forgiveness and tolerance. RSG is all about
> > intolerance and condemnation.
>
> I like the personal attacks. MAT is my favorite poster.

In that case, I nominate Moderator to be the moderator.

-Greg

Date: 14 Nov 2006 11:55:53
From: the Moderator
Subject: Re: It's the personal attacks, stupid!

"The_Professor" <dbid@att.net > wrote in message
news:1163515327.141401.62960@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> The decline of all these usenet groups is due to personal attacks. They
> all seem to accumulate a group of regulars whose main purpose is to
> attack those who disagree with them. No one cares about OT posts, for
> example. If you don't want to read a thread, don't! A lot of people,
> and I mean *A LOT* of people aren't interested in posting if there is
> much of a risk of personal attacks...so they don't...they also don't
> want to participate in threads that include personal attacks.
>
> I don't think George W Bush is stupid..so you disagree with me...you
> have your reasons, I have mine, we can state the reasons, make an
> arguement, challenge each other...but the line is crossed when the
> personal attacks start.
>
> It's why I won't post much on golf here. Certain people disagree with
> something, like hitting a 186 yard low spinner from a grassy lie in the
> woods, and you get bombarded with personal attacks because in their
> opinion....and their opinion is all that matters...fine by me...the
> personal attacks cause me to disrespect you...and you disrespect me
> because I dare to disagree with you...fine by me...but don't expect too
> much honest open posting from anyone if those are the rules!
>
> Lidfe is all about forgiveness and tolerance. RSG is all about
> intolerance and condemnation.

I like the personal attacks. MAT is my favorite poster.

Date: 14 Nov 2006 08:58:32
From: Dene
Subject: Re: It's the personal attacks, stupid!

The_Professor wrote:
> The decline of all these usenet groups is due to personal attacks. They
> all seem to accumulate a group of regulars whose main purpose is to
> attack those who disagree with them. No one cares about OT posts, for
> example. If you don't want to read a thread, don't! A lot of people,
> and I mean *A LOT* of people aren't interested in posting if there is
> much of a risk of personal attacks...so they don't...they also don't
> want to participate in threads that include personal attacks.
>
> I don't think George W Bush is stupid..so you disagree with me...you
> have your reasons, I have mine, we can state the reasons, make an
> arguement, challenge each other...but the line is crossed when the
> personal attacks start.
>
> It's why I won't post much on golf here. Certain people disagree with
> something, like hitting a 186 yard low spinner from a grassy lie in the
> woods, and you get bombarded with personal attacks because in their
> opinion....and their opinion is all that matters...fine by me...the
> personal attacks cause me to disrespect you...and you disrespect me
> because I dare to disagree with you...fine by me...but don't expect too
> much honest open posting from anyone if those are the rules!
>
> Lidfe is all about forgiveness and tolerance. RSG is all about
> intolerance and condemnation.

You're right but what's more important to me is that you live it. I've
never seen you attack anyone. You always keep your head higher than
the opposition.....unlike me.

But....some guys like me enjoy the give and take, even if it gets a
little gnarly. I take most of it these days with humor. For example,
in another thread, B.O.B. likes to point out that I wasn't invited to
RSG-NW. I laughed at the absurdity of that comment. I was univited to
a tournament I had no intention of attending, then or ever. Crushed I
was.

Not.

-Greg

Date: 14 Nov 2006 07:01:46
From: Gordo
Subject: Re: It's the personal attacks, stupid!

Date:
From:
Subject:

Date: 14 Nov 2006 20:20:33
From: Head Shot
Subject: Re: It's the personal attacks, stupid!

The_Professor wrote:
> The decline of all these usenet groups is due to personal attacks.

Yo mama so fat, her clothes have stretch marks.

Yo mama so ugly, her nickname is "DAMN!!!!"

Yo mama so fat, I have to take a bus, a train, and a cab just to get on her
good side.

Yo mama so fat, she was baptized at SeaWorld.

Yo mama so ugly, the government moved Halloween to her birthday.

--
___________________________________________________________
A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises,
I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it
gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. -- Thomas
Jefferson

Date: 14 Nov 2006 11:33:46
From: Draco
Subject: Re: It's the personal attacks, stupid!

The_Professor wrote:
> The decline of all these usenet groups is due to personal attacks. They
> all seem to accumulate a group of regulars whose main purpose is to
> attack those who disagree with them. No one cares about OT posts, for
> example. If you don't want to read a thread, don't! A lot of people,
> and I mean *A LOT* of people aren't interested in posting if there is
> much of a risk of personal attacks...so they don't...they also don't
> want to participate in threads that include personal attacks.
>
> I don't think George W Bush is stupid..so you disagree with me...you
> have your reasons, I have mine, we can state the reasons, make an
> arguement, challenge each other...but the line is crossed when the
> personal attacks start.
>
> It's why I won't post much on golf here. Certain people disagree with
> something, like hitting a 186 yard low spinner from a grassy lie in the
> woods, and you get bombarded with personal attacks because in their
> opinion....and their opinion is all that matters...fine by me...the
> personal attacks cause me to disrespect you...and you disrespect me
> because I dare to disagree with you...fine by me...but don't expect too
> much honest open posting from anyone if those are the rules!
>
> Lidfe is all about forgiveness and tolerance. RSG is all about
> intolerance and condemnation.

Life is more than fogiveness and tolerance. It is also
respecting others opinions. To be able to see their
point of view. To either have them be convinced or
to convince you. If a person can do neither, then the
use groups are perfect for them. To name call and attack
from behind hidden screen names and false addresses.
To be able to riddicule and berate any and all who
do not match up to their standard, with out any fear
of reprisal or consequinces. These are the Quislings
of our time.

We have free speach in this country. I will defend
that right to the day I die. But free speach isn't free
from consequince. You call someone a name or worse
face to face? Be ready to fight. You slander someone?
Be ready to defend your words in court. Chose your words
carefully. You just might have to eat them latter. Along
with some teeth.

That's my two cents worth. The rest of you can continue
and talk about what ever you like. I'm going to play
a round or two. It is too nice a day to be inside
talking about golf.

Have a great day everyone.

Draco

Getting even isn't good enough.

Date: 15 Nov 2006 08:55:26
From: The_Professor
Subject: Re: It's the personal attacks, stupid!

Bobby Knight wrote:
> On 15 Nov 2006 08:34:15 -0800, "The_Professor" <dbid@att.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >S McFarlane wrote:
> >
> >snippit
> >
> >It is subjective, that's certain! However, the regulars here can be
> >tolerant with each other and ignore the trolls. Those who like the
> >personal attacks, and try to feed into it would go away if the regular
> >posters didn't engage in personal attacks. I can say that I personally
> >don't care too much about it, other than as a topic of discussion and
> >the insight into human nature. Some people who rail against the OT and
> >negative posting are the most vicious when it comes to attackiong
> >people who they don't like. LW is a perfect example, as is GH. They
> >talk about golf for the most part. LW throws in a little politics.
>
> LW is Larry Whitaker? He throws in a "little" politics?
> Then there's the "professor" decrying the acts of trolling. He's one
> of the best at it. Take this post for instance. I bit.

I don't see that post as a troll. It's just a comment. Of course that
can be applied to a lot of things, but I'm not attacking any specific
person or attacking any specific post. If you don't like LW, for
example, don't respond to his posts.

I can also state that I really do not think Bush is stupid. I see it as
a legitimate issue if it comes up in what I see as a legitimate
fashion. If someone else doesn't want to discuss that issue, fine,
ignore it. Of course the Bush is stupid rubbish gets back to the idea
of making personal attacks, which, IMHO, turn off normal people but
attract the nutcases.

Not to say anyone, me, you, anyone is perfect in this area, but it's a
matter of extreme. What is your basic practice? Attack those you don't
like to belittle them and run them down? If that's you, then that's you
and you will like the current RSG and post a lot here. If that's not
you, you won't like RSG and won't post much, if at all here. Seems the
reality to me anyways.

Date: 15 Nov 2006 08:34:15
From: The_Professor
Subject: Re: It's the personal attacks, stupid!

S McFarlane wrote:

snippit

It is subjective, that's certain! However, the regulars here can be
tolerant with each other and ignore the trolls. Those who like the
personal attacks, and try to feed into it would go away if the regular
posters didn't engage in personal attacks. I can say that I personally
don't care too much about it, other than as a topic of discussion and
the insight into human nature. Some people who rail against the OT and
negative posting are the most vicious when it comes to attackiong
people who they don't like. LW is a perfect example, as is GH. They
talk about golf for the most part. LW throws in a little politics. You
*CAN* choose to leave it alone. Who can't leave it alone is very
telling...and they are no different than any other troll when they
start up the attacks. Who LW and GH are is a completely different
issue! They are who they are...the question is: who are you?

Date: 15 Nov 2006 10:38:23
From: Bobby Knight
Subject: Re: It's the personal attacks, stupid!

On 15 Nov 2006 08:34:15 -0800, "The_Professor" <dbid@att.net > wrote:

>
>S McFarlane wrote:
>
>snippit
>
>It is subjective, that's certain! However, the regulars here can be
>tolerant with each other and ignore the trolls. Those who like the
>personal attacks, and try to feed into it would go away if the regular
>posters didn't engage in personal attacks. I can say that I personally
>don't care too much about it, other than as a topic of discussion and
>the insight into human nature. Some people who rail against the OT and
>negative posting are the most vicious when it comes to attackiong
>people who they don't like. LW is a perfect example, as is GH. They
>talk about golf for the most part. LW throws in a little politics.

LW is Larry Whitaker? He throws in a "little" politics?
Then there's the "professor" decrying the acts of trolling. He's one
of the best at it. Take this post for instance. I bit.
___,
\o

Date: 15 Nov 2006 22:20:59
From: S McFarlane
Subject: Re: It's the personal attacks, stupid!

"The_Professor" <dbid@att.net > wrote in message
news:1163608455.306391.36400@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...

> It is subjective, that's certain! However, the regulars here can be
> tolerant with each other and ignore the trolls. Those who like the
> personal attacks, and try to feed into it would go away if the regular
> posters didn't engage in personal attacks. I can say that I personally
> don't care too much about it, other than as a topic of discussion and
> the insight into human nature. Some people who rail against the OT and
> negative posting are the most vicious when it comes to attackiong
> people who they don't like. LW is a perfect example, as is GH. They
> talk about golf for the most part. LW throws in a little politics. You
> *CAN* choose to leave it alone. Who can't leave it alone is very
> telling...and they are no different than any other troll when they
> start up the attacks. Who LW and GH are is a completely different
> issue! They are who they are...the question is: who are you?
>

I don't think it's a question of who can and can't leave it alone. People
who engage in OT posts here aren't doing something they wish they could
stop, for the most part. Many people just don't care whether a subject is
on-topic, and they definitely don't care if it bothers those who insist that
a newsgroup _must_ remain 100% on-topic.. If they want to post about
politics in a basketweaving group, then that's what they'll do. Ditto the
personal attacks. Some people just don't have any shame online.

I haven't participated in many NG's, but OT posts seem to be a very
commonplace thing. The only exception I've seen is a German language
theology newsgroup. Every post I read there was on-topic. On the other
hand, ad hominems were common. Politics and religion...

I don't think all of the nasty arguments are necessarily trolling. People
just really get worked up on certain topics, and all the natural restraints
from the real world don't apply. They are sincere when they insult your
family tree. Trolls aren't doing what they do because they believe in what
they are saying. The reaction is the only point for a troll.

Scott

Date: 16 Nov 2006 07:26:53
From: The_Professor
Subject: Re: It's the personal attacks, stupid! correction!

The_Professor wrote:
> S McFarlane wrote:
>
> snippit.....
> >
> > I don't think all of the nasty arguments are necessarily trolling. People
> > just really get worked up on certain topics, and all the natural restraints
> > from the real world don't apply. They are sincere when they insult your
> > family tree. Trolls aren't doing what they do because they believe in what
> > they are saying. The reaction is the only point for a troll.
> >
>
> In that case, I've never posted a troll. I post what I believe, maybe a
> red herring from time to time, the odd lash out, but I have not made
> posts of things I don't believe simply to get a reaction. I don't see
> posting on a controversial topic as such, however. For example, I
> really do beleive ProV1's are rocks by defintion; I really don't
> strongly believe spine aligning is snake oil. Controversial maybe, but
> what I truely believe and also consider legitimate topics for discussion
> on RSG.

... a little quick on the send!

Date: 16 Nov 2006 07:24:18
From: The_Professor
Subject: Re: It's the personal attacks, stupid!

S McFarlane wrote:

snippit.....
>
> I don't think all of the nasty arguments are necessarily trolling. People
> just really get worked up on certain topics, and all the natural restraints
> from the real world don't apply. They are sincere when they insult your
> family tree. Trolls aren't doing what they do because they believe in what
> they are saying. The reaction is the only point for a troll.
>

In that case, I've never posted a troll. I post what I beleive, amybe a
red herring from time to time, the odd lash out, but I have not made
posts of things I don't beleive simply to get a reaction. I don't see
posting on a controversial topic as such, however. For example, I
really do beleive ProV1's are rocks by defintion; I really don't
strongly beleive spine aligning is sanke oil. Controversial maybe, but
what I trely beleive and also consider legitimate topics for discussion
on RSG.

Date: 16 Nov 2006 09:27:25
From: Bobby Knight
Subject: Re: It's the personal attacks, stupid!

On 16 Nov 2006 07:24:18 -0800, "The_Professor" <dbid@att.net > wrote:

>
>S McFarlane wrote:
>
>snippit.....
>>
>> I don't think all of the nasty arguments are necessarily trolling. People
>> just really get worked up on certain topics, and all the natural restraints
>> from the real world don't apply. They are sincere when they insult your
>> family tree. Trolls aren't doing what they do because they believe in what
>> they are saying. The reaction is the only point for a troll.
>>
>
>In that case, I've never posted a troll. I post what I beleive, amybe a
>red herring from time to time, the odd lash out, but I have not made
>posts of things I don't beleive simply to get a reaction. I don't see
>posting on a controversial topic as such, however. For example, I
>really do beleive ProV1's are rocks by defintion; I really don't
>strongly beleive spine aligning is sanke oil. Controversial maybe, but
>what I trely beleive and also consider legitimate topics for discussion
>on RSG.

Unbeleivable. :-)
___,
\o

Date: 17 Nov 2006 01:20:37
From: S McFarlane
Subject: Re: It's the personal attacks, stupid!

"The_Professor" <dbid@att.net > wrote in message
news:1163690658.368092.155590@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> In that case, I've never posted a troll. I post what I beleive, amybe a
> red herring from time to time, the odd lash out, but I have not made
> posts of things I don't beleive simply to get a reaction. I don't see
> posting on a controversial topic as such, however. For example, I
> really do beleive ProV1's are rocks by defintion; I really don't
> strongly beleive spine aligning is sanke oil. Controversial maybe, but
> what I trely beleive and also consider legitimate topics for discussion
> on RSG.

I agree. That wouldn't be trolling. It might not be clever if you wish to
avoid flame wars, but if you honestly want to discuss a topic, posting on it
is never a troll.

Scott

Date: 16 Nov 2006 19:18:04
From: The_Professor
Subject: Re: It's the personal attacks, stupid! correction!

The_Professor wrote:
> The_Professor wrote:
> > S McFarlane wrote:
> >
> > snippit.....
> > >
> > > I don't think all of the nasty arguments are necessarily trolling. People
> > > just really get worked up on certain topics, and all the natural restraints
> > > from the real world don't apply. They are sincere when they insult your
> > > family tree. Trolls aren't doing what they do because they believe in what
> > > they are saying. The reaction is the only point for a troll.
> > >
> >
> > In that case, I've never posted a troll. I post what I believe, maybe a
> > red herring from time to time, the odd lash out, but I have not made
> > posts of things I don't believe simply to get a reaction. I don't see
> > posting on a controversial topic as such, however. For example, I
> > really do beleive ProV1's are rocks by defintion; I really don't
> > strongly believe spine aligning is snake oil. Controversial maybe, but
> > what I truely believe and also consider legitimate topics for discussion
> > on RSG.
>
> ... a little quick on the send!

another correction...I do believe spine aligning is snake oil...was a
little rushed at the time!

Date: 16 Nov 2006 11:33:20
From: The_Professor
Subject: Re: It's the personal attacks, stupid!

Rob Davis wrote:
>>
> In fact, the OP here is trying to "control" RSG by claiming the
> "problem" is "personal attacks". He doesn't like personal attacks and
> would try to get rid of them by convincing everyone that the group would
> be "better" without them.

You must be a liberal!

;^)

The OP said that IF the regulars stopped with the personal attacks,
this group would get better. The OP clearly made no reference to anyone
controlling anything. The point of the OP was that the decline of this
group is due to personal attacks. It drives normal people away from the
group.

The OP did not make the representation you claimed.

Date: 17 Nov 2006 08:21:45
From: The_Professor
Subject: Re: It's the personal attacks, stupid!

Miss Anne Thrope wrote:
> A Bush supporter yapping about forgiveness and tolerance.
>
> Yep, it looks just as silly when I write it, as it does when I say it
> out loud.

A Bush opponent ridiculing forgiveness and tolerance. Par for the
course!

Date: 17 Nov 2006 09:37:51
From: Miss Anne Thrope
Subject: Re: It's the personal attacks, stupid!

A Bush supporter yapping about forgiveness and tolerance.

Yep, it looks just as silly when I write it, as it does when I say it
out loud.