Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

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Date: 04 Nov 2006 20:01:55
From: slot
Subject: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

Wednesday, November 1, 2006 - Page updated at 12:00 AM

Magazine ranks Kenny G as No. 1 musical golfer
By The Associated Press

LOS ANGELES - Saxophonist Kenny G has more to brag about than his
world-class saxophone-playing. He's the best golfer among music-makers,
according to Golf Digest's ranking of the "Top 100 in Music."

The Grammy winner and Seattle native beats out country stars Vince
Gill, Marty Roe and Steve Azar, and No Doubt drummer Adrian Young, who
round out the top 5. The list also includes Bob Dylan (No. 63), Snoop
Dogg (No. 44) and fellow sax player Branford Marsalis (No. 29).

The list was published will be published Tuesday on the magazine's Web
site and in its December issue, on newsstands next week.

The ranking is based on handicaps, some official, some not-so-official.
Kenny G's handicap is a plus-0.6, meaning his average score is better
than par.

He tells the magazine he needs improvement.

"With the sax, I learned technique well enough so that it feels like
part of my body and I just express myself," he said. "That's where I
want to get in golf."

Gill, a scratch golfer (0 handicap), said, "musicians and golfers
understand each other."

"We know what it takes to have to perform," he said. "We know there is
a lot of alone time."

Rocker Alice Cooper, 11th on the list with a 5.3 handicap, said playing
golf helped him kick his drug habit.

"Golf is the crack of sports," he told the magazine. "Once I took it
seriously, I loved it. It absolutely saved my life."

Other stars on the Golf Digest rankings include Justin Timberlake (No.
15), Englebert Humperdinck (23), Celine Dion (62) and Pink (100).

Copyright =A9 2006 The Seattle Times Company

Date: 05 Nov 2006 10:00:49
From: Matt 'Ocho' Aamold
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

World class Saxaphonist ?????

"slot" <jazzjitsu@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1162699315.144926.284080@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>LOS ANGELES - Saxophonist Kenny G has more to brag about than his
> world-class saxophone-playing. He's the best golfer among music-makers,
>according to Golf Digest's ranking of the "Top 100 in Music."

Date: 05 Nov 2006 07:46:20
From: annika1980
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

Bobby Knight wrote:
> >
> Metheny was dead on, except why on earth would he not have imagined KG
> doing something so stupid? I'm glad for him that he can play golf,
> but as a musician, he's awful. Popular, but awful.

I wonder which golfer(s) would be voted the Best Musician?

There seem to be a number of musician golfers here on RSG so I wonder
if the trend continues nationwide. And then you've got the greats like
John Daly, Peter Jacobsen, and Mark Lye.

Date: 05 Nov 2006 16:11:39
From: Chris Bellomy
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

annika1980 <annika1980@aol.com > wrote:

: I wonder which golfer(s) would be voted the Best Musician?

I guess Don Cherry is no longer under consideration.

--
Chris Bellomy
C-List Charter Member
http://clist.org/

Date: 05 Nov 2006 07:42:19
From: annika1980
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

slot wrote:
> The ranking is based on handicaps, some official, some not-so-official.
> Kenny G's handicap is a plus-0.6, meaning his average score is better
> than par.
>
> He tells the magazine he needs improvement.

He may be a +0.6 on the golf course, but he's a 36 as a jazz musician.

Kenny G is to jazz what Charles Barkley and Michael Jordan are to golf.
People pay to see them play, but most people know they suck.

Date: 05 Nov 2006 16:10:53
From: Chris Bellomy
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

In rec.sport.golf annika1980 <annika1980@aol.com > wrote:
:
: slot wrote:
: > The ranking is based on handicaps, some official, some not-so-official.
: > Kenny G's handicap is a plus-0.6, meaning his average score is better
: > than par.
: >
: > He tells the magazine he needs improvement.
:
: He may be a +0.6 on the golf course, but he's a 36 as a jazz musician.

You don't even need to qualify this with "jazz." Dude can't
play in tune. Even I can play soprano sax better than him.

--
Chris Bellomy
C-List Charter Member
http://clist.org/

Date: 05 Nov 2006 21:59:17
From: Sparky
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

On 5-Nov-2006, Chris Bellomy <puevf@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid > wrote:

> In rec.sport.golf annika1980 <annika1980@aol.com> wrote:
> :
> : slot wrote:
> :> The ranking is based on handicaps, some official, some not-so-official.
> :> Kenny G's handicap is a plus-0.6, meaning his average score is better
> :> than par.
> :>
> :> He tells the magazine he needs improvement.
> :
> : He may be a +0.6 on the golf course, but he's a 36 as a jazz musician.
>
> You don't even need to qualify this with "jazz." Dude can't
> play in tune. Even I can play soprano sax better than him.

And I'm willing to bet I can wax him in golf...

me

Date: 05 Nov 2006 04:50:28
From: Larry Bud
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

Date: 05 Nov 2006 07:51:24
From: Bobby Knight
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

On 5 Nov 2006 04:50:28 -0800, "Larry Bud" <larrybud2002@yahoo.com >
wrote:

>
>Bobby Knight wrote:
>> On Sun, 5 Nov 2006 06:15:25 -0500, "Jackson" <hackman55@comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >You must consider the source (Metheny) to get the correct view on this
>> >situation. This guy is a whacko and really should keep his comments to
>> >himself. Music is subjective unlike golf.
>>
>> Music is subjective? Only to those who listen without any knowledge of
>> it.
>>
>> Do you know what intonation is? Are you aware of chordal
>> progression, and what happens if you don't play jazz within that
>> structure? Have you a concept of time, and tempo?
>
>Do you really think Miles Davis followed structured music progression?

Of course he did, even when he ventured outside he was still
restrained, neveractually what is free-form. If you had said Eric
Dolphy, Albert Ayers, or Archie Shepp there would be an agreement.
This genre is really a mixed bag too. You can have so many concepts
of what is "free". Anyway, there has been a free-form movement for
years, but that's not KG's bag.

Kenny G is NOT an avante garde player, and is playing what is called
"inside" to jazz musicians, which is staying within chord changes, and
steady rhythms. Then there are the other standards like intonation
and just plain taste (which IS subjective). He's not well regarded as
a player, but is as a moneymaker.
___,
\o

Date: 04 Nov 2006 23:53:09
From:
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

muk wrote:
> >Magazine ranks Kenny G as No. 1 musical golfer
> >By The Associated Press
>
>
> This is what Pat Metheny has to say about Kenny G's music. I tend to
> agree:
>
> "(in reference to Kenny G's overdubbing of Louis Armstrong's "What a
> Wonderful World") 'When Kenny G decided that it was appropriate for
> him to defile the music of the man (Louis Armstrong) who is probably
> the greatest jazz musician that has ever lived by spewing his
> lame-ass, jive, pseudo bluesy, out-of-tune, noodling, wimped out,
> fucked up playing all over one of the great Louis' tracks (even one of
> his lesser ones), he did something that I would not have imagined
> possible'"

Yawn... we've been through this before. Golf skill was the gist of
this article and we know she don't lie. Big deal so Kenny G is the
"Keith Richards" of jazz. He made a few riffs that makes some average
joe's happy and sold lots of records. Don't like??, point your stylus
elsewhere.

Date: 05 Nov 2006 15:43:28
From: muk
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

>
>Yawn... we've been through this before. Golf skill was the gist of
>this article and we know she don't lie. Big deal so Kenny G is the
>"Keith Richards" of jazz. He made a few riffs that makes some average
>joe's happy and sold lots of records. Don't like??, point your stylus
>elsewhere.

I posted a comment on his music; lets face it, if he wasn't a
"musician", he would be just another +0.6 hcp that no one has ever
heard of.

Enjoy your Kenny G Holiday album.

Date: 05 Nov 2006 06:25:31
From: Bobby Knight
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

On 4 Nov 2006 23:53:09 -0800, strat68@gmail.com wrote:

>
>muk wrote:
>> >Magazine ranks Kenny G as No. 1 musical golfer
>> >By The Associated Press
>>
>>
>> This is what Pat Metheny has to say about Kenny G's music. I tend to
>> agree:
>>
>> "(in reference to Kenny G's overdubbing of Louis Armstrong's "What a
>> Wonderful World") 'When Kenny G decided that it was appropriate for
>> him to defile the music of the man (Louis Armstrong) who is probably
>> the greatest jazz musician that has ever lived by spewing his
>> lame-ass, jive, pseudo bluesy, out-of-tune, noodling, wimped out,
>> fucked up playing all over one of the great Louis' tracks (even one of
>> his lesser ones), he did something that I would not have imagined
>> possible'"
>
>Yawn... we've been through this before. Golf skill was the gist of
>this article and we know she don't lie. Big deal so Kenny G is the
>"Keith Richards" of jazz. He made a few riffs that makes some average
>joe's happy and sold lots of records. Don't like??, point your stylus
>elsewhere.
Yawn. Who's she? There's more golf content in this thread than
most.
___,
\o

Date: 05 Nov 2006 06:15:25
From: Jackson
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

You must consider the source (Metheny) to get the correct view on this
situation. This guy is a whacko and really should keep his comments to
himself. Music is subjective unlike golf.
<strat68@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1162713189.864462.310330@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> muk wrote:
>> >Magazine ranks Kenny G as No. 1 musical golfer
>> >By The Associated Press
>>
>>
>> This is what Pat Metheny has to say about Kenny G's music. I tend to
>> agree:
>>
>> "(in reference to Kenny G's overdubbing of Louis Armstrong's "What a
>> Wonderful World") 'When Kenny G decided that it was appropriate for
>> him to defile the music of the man (Louis Armstrong) who is probably
>> the greatest jazz musician that has ever lived by spewing his
>> lame-ass, jive, pseudo bluesy, out-of-tune, noodling, wimped out,
>> fucked up playing all over one of the great Louis' tracks (even one of
>> his lesser ones), he did something that I would not have imagined
>> possible'"
>
> Yawn... we've been through this before. Golf skill was the gist of
> this article and we know she don't lie. Big deal so Kenny G is the
> "Keith Richards" of jazz. He made a few riffs that makes some average
> joe's happy and sold lots of records. Don't like??, point your stylus
> elsewhere.
>

Date: 05 Nov 2006 06:31:48
From: Bobby Knight
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

On Sun, 5 Nov 2006 06:15:25 -0500, "Jackson" <hackman55@comcast.net >
wrote:

>You must consider the source (Metheny) to get the correct view on this
>situation. This guy is a whacko and really should keep his comments to
>himself. Music is subjective unlike golf.

Music is subjective? Only to those who listen without any knowledge of
it.

Do you know what intonation is? Are you aware of chordal
progression, and what happens if you don't play jazz within that
structure? Have you a concept of time, and tempo?

Before you make statements like that, you need to check around with
some real musicians.

All of those things are objective, and KG doesn't pass muster for any
of them. Metheny may not appeal to you, but he damned sure knows what
music is, and is correct about Kenny G.
___,
\o

Date: 05 Nov 2006 20:59:47
From: Head Shot
Subject: Re: A Gift for Larry

jeffc wrote:
> "Go home". Hilarious. Another arrogant, ignorant American.

Arrogant Americans kicked the asses of the British in 1776 and 1812; and
then the British came to us begging us to save them from Hitler in 1941.
You are our bitches. Now dance, kook.

--
___________________________________________________________
A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises,
I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it
gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. -- Thomas
Jefferson

Date: 06 Nov 2006 03:07:51
From: S McFarlane
Subject: Re: A Gift for Larry

"Head Shot" <HeadShot@TakeTheShot.kgb > wrote in message
news:jGw3h.4778$U76.320@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> jeffc wrote:
>> "Go home". Hilarious. Another arrogant, ignorant American.
>
>
> Arrogant Americans kicked the asses of the British in 1776 and 1812; and
> then the British came to us begging us to save them from Hitler in 1941.
> You are our bitches. Now dance, kook.

Damn, I hate to see that sort of thing outside of sit coms. Head Shot, your
name doesn't happen to be Norm, does it?

Now, what could make this really a perfect moment is for jeffc to go on
about how lovely his hometown Sydney is this time of year...

Scott

Date: 05 Nov 2006 22:10:46
From: Head Shot
Subject: Re: A Gift for Larry

S McFarlane wrote:
> "Head Shot" <HeadShot@TakeTheShot.kgb> wrote in message
>> jeffc wrote:
>>> "Go home". Hilarious. Another arrogant, ignorant American.
>>
>>
>> Arrogant Americans kicked the asses of the British in 1776 and 1812;
>> and then the British came to us begging us to save them from Hitler
>> in 1941. You are our bitches. Now dance, kook.
>
> Damn, I hate to see that sort of thing outside of sit coms. Head
> Shot, your name doesn't happen to be Norm, does it?

Nope. And Sydney is just a British penal colony. So my kidding on a
square still applies. And I don't like his football either.

--
___________________________________________________________
A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises,
I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it
gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. -- Thomas
Jefferson

Date: 06 Nov 2006 14:20:30
From: jeffc
Subject: Re: A Gift for Larry

"S McFarlane" <spam@nothanks.com > wrote in message
news:bGx3h.2354$Wd5.516@trnddc05...
>
> "Head Shot" <HeadShot@TakeTheShot.kgb> wrote in message
> news:jGw3h.4778$U76.320@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>> jeffc wrote:
>>> "Go home". Hilarious. Another arrogant, ignorant American.
>>
>>
>> Arrogant Americans kicked the asses of the British in 1776 and 1812; and
>> then the British came to us begging us to save them from Hitler in 1941.
>> You are our bitches. Now dance, kook.
>
> Damn, I hate to see that sort of thing outside of sit coms. Head Shot,
> your name doesn't happen to be Norm, does it?
>
> Now, what could make this really a perfect moment is for jeffc to go on
> about how lovely his hometown Sydney is this time of year...

What a moron. Clark IS home, and the internet isn't American. I know some
concepts like that are super tricky.

Date: 06 Nov 2006 14:18:19
From: jeffc
Subject: Re: A Gift for Larry

"Head Shot" <HeadShot@TakeTheShot.kgb > wrote in message
news:jGw3h.4778$U76.320@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> jeffc wrote:
>> "Go home". Hilarious. Another arrogant, ignorant American.
>
>
> Arrogant Americans kicked the asses of the British in 1776 and 1812; and
> then the British came to us begging us to save them from Hitler in 1941.
> You are our bitches. Now dance, kook.

Could you be any more ignorant? I'm American asshole. I'll bet you have
quite a large penis, BTW.

Date: 06 Nov 2006 18:55:55
From: Head Shot
Subject: Re: A Gift for Larry

jeffc wrote:
> I'll bet you
> have quite a large penis, BTW.

I don't think you need to be worrying about other men's penises on Usenet.
For any reason. *

*that statement does not make me a homophobe.

--
___________________________________________________________
A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises,
I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it
gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. -- Thomas
Jefferson

Date: 07 Nov 2006 17:26:20
From: jeffc
Subject: Re: A Gift for Larry

"Head Shot" <HeadShot@TakeTheShot.kgb > wrote in message
news:dYP3h.5275$U76.4503@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> jeffc wrote:
>> I'll bet you
>> have quite a large penis, BTW.
>
>
> I don't think you need to be worrying about other men's penises on Usenet.
> For any reason. *
>
> *that statement does not make me a homophobe.

I'm hardly worried. I'm just saying it's mostly likely small, and you're
talking big to try to give the impression it's big. Get it yet?

Date: 07 Nov 2006 20:50:29
From: Head Shot
Subject: Re: A Gift for Larry

jeffc wrote:
> "Head Shot" <HeadShot@TakeTheShot.kgb> wrote in message
>> jeffc wrote:
>>> I'll bet you
>>> have quite a large penis, BTW.
>>
>>
>> I don't think you need to be worrying about other men's penises on
>> Usenet. For any reason. *
>>
>> *that statement does not make me a homophobe.
>
> I'm hardly worried. I'm just saying it's mostly likely small, and
> you're talking big to try to give the impression it's big. Get it
> yet?

Look, loser - I am asking nicely for you to find something else to worry
about besides my penis. I am not going to let you play with it; no matter
how you beg. I don't talk about it, and you shouldn't either. I am see
you also have an issue where you need to find out how big or bad I am. My
address publicly available without too much digging, and you are welcome to
do whatever you think you have to do.

--
___________________________________________________________
A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises,
I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it
gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. -- Thomas
Jefferson

Date: 09 Nov 2006 02:52:19
From: jeffc
Subject: Re: A Gift for Larry

"Head Shot" <HeadShot@TakeTheShot.kgb > wrote in message
news:AJa4h.10591$3L.8813@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
>
> Look, loser - I am asking nicely for you to find something else to
> worry about besides my penis. I am not going to let you play with it;
> no matter how you beg. I don't talk about it, and you shouldn't either.
> I am see you also have an issue where you need to find out how big or bad
> I am. My address publicly available without too much digging, and you
> are welcome to do whatever you think you have to do.

What I have to do is point out how dull and macho you are.

Date: 05 Nov 2006 19:40:32
From: Rob Davis
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

Bobby Knight wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Nov 2006 06:15:25 -0500, "Jackson" <hackman55@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>You must consider the source (Metheny) to get the correct view on this
>>situation. This guy is a whacko and really should keep his comments to
>>himself. Music is subjective unlike golf.
>
>
> Music is subjective? Only to those who listen without any knowledge of
> it.
>
> Do you know what intonation is? Are you aware of chordal
> progression, and what happens if you don't play jazz within that
> structure? Have you a concept of time, and tempo?
>

I know what all of those things are and have played guitar for almost 40
years in a variety of styles. I have enjoyed music that has thrown all
of those things out the window ... although not usually at the same time
8^). And I would have to agree that music as a whole is a very
subjective thing to judge ... you *might* have an argument on something
like classical or traditional jazz specifically, but not "music" as a whole.

Rob

Date: 05 Nov 2006 06:33:48
From: muk
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

>Magazine ranks Kenny G as No. 1 musical golfer
>By The Associated Press

This is what Pat Metheny has to say about Kenny G's music. I tend to
agree:

�(in reference to Kenny G�s overdubbing of Louis Armstrong�s �What a
Wonderful World") �When Kenny G decided that it was appropriate for
him to defile the music of the man (Louis Armstrong) who is probably
the greatest jazz musician that has ever lived by spewing his
lame-ass, jive, pseudo bluesy, out-of-tune, noodling, wimped out,
fucked up playing all over one of the great Louis� tracks (even one of
his lesser ones), he did something that I would not have imagined
possible��

Date: 05 Nov 2006 06:23:31
From: Bobby Knight
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

On Sun, 05 Nov 2006 06:33:48 GMT, muk <mukhp@NOSPAMhotmail.com > wrote:

>
>>Magazine ranks Kenny G as No. 1 musical golfer
>>By The Associated Press
>
>
>This is what Pat Metheny has to say about Kenny G's music. I tend to
>agree:
>
>�(in reference to Kenny G�s overdubbing of Louis Armstrong�s �What a
>Wonderful World") �When Kenny G decided that it was appropriate for
>him to defile the music of the man (Louis Armstrong) who is probably
>the greatest jazz musician that has ever lived by spewing his
>lame-ass, jive, pseudo bluesy, out-of-tune, noodling, wimped out,
>fucked up playing all over one of the great Louis� tracks (even one of
>his lesser ones), he did something that I would not have imagined
>possible��

Metheny was dead on, except why on earth would he not have imagined KG
doing something so stupid? I'm glad for him that he can play golf,
but as a musician, he's awful. Popular, but awful.
___,
\o

Date: 05 Nov 2006 20:28:36
From:
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

muk wrote:
> >
> >Yawn... we've been through this before. Golf skill was the gist of
> >this article and we know she don't lie. Big deal so Kenny G is the
> >"Keith Richards" of jazz. He made a few riffs that makes some average
> >joe's happy and sold lots of records. Don't like??, point your stylus
> >elsewhere.
>
> I posted a comment on his music; lets face it, if he wasn't a
> "musician", he would be just another +0.6 hcp that no one has ever
> heard of.

Of course he'd come up in *this* article- it was on celeb musicians who
play golf.

> Enjoy your Kenny G Holiday album.

Not in my house. Usually Vince Guaraldi during the holidays until the
guests arrive. My tastes disagree with the rest of the extended
family. Ugh, the dreaded Elvis "Blue Christmas" stuff.

I agree with Methany's assement, but you don't need to be a jazz guru
to figure out
KG is all hype. I find it more interesting to discuss the validity of
his "plus" handicap or the other's handicaps. OTOH, bashing him for a
nationwide last place is a bit harsh because it could happen to many a
honest scratch club golfers. (I know you didn't say that part).

Date: 05 Nov 2006 19:48:29
From:
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

Bobby Knight wrote:
> On 4 Nov 2006 23:53:09 -0800, strat68@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >
> >muk wrote:
> >> >Magazine ranks Kenny G as No. 1 musical golfer
> >> >By The Associated Press
> >>
> >>
> >> This is what Pat Metheny has to say about Kenny G's music. I tend to
> >> agree:
> >>
> >> "(in reference to Kenny G's overdubbing of Louis Armstrong's "What a
> >> Wonderful World") 'When Kenny G decided that it was appropriate for
> >> him to defile the music of the man (Louis Armstrong) who is probably
> >> the greatest jazz musician that has ever lived by spewing his
> >> lame-ass, jive, pseudo bluesy, out-of-tune, noodling, wimped out,
> >> fucked up playing all over one of the great Louis' tracks (even one of
> >> his lesser ones), he did something that I would not have imagined
> >> possible'"
> >
> >Yawn... we've been through this before. Golf skill was the gist of
> >this article and we know she don't lie. Big deal so Kenny G is the
> >"Keith Richards" of jazz. He made a few riffs that makes some average
> >joe's happy and sold lots of records. Don't like??, point your stylus
> >elsewhere.

> There's more golf content in this thread than
> most.

Point taken, the political stuff is really pathetic lately, and it is
really arrogant as non-US participants have to suffer this crap.
Anyhow, this KG/PM thing was beaten to death here more than once. It
*was* interesting the first time.

FTR, I thought similar of KG before I ever heard of Methany's comments.
Not the technical detail that Methany backed his remarks up with, just
the feeling of hype and commercial success without greatness. Not at
all unlike ol' Keith. Also FTR, I like the Stones alot, but still
think it a perfect analogy.

Date: 06 Nov 2006 06:27:12
From: S McFarlane
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

<strat68@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1162784909.683595.272960@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> FTR, I thought similar of KG before I ever heard of Methany's comments.
> Not the technical detail that Methany backed his remarks up with, just
> the feeling of hype and commercial success without greatness. Not at
> all unlike ol' Keith. Also FTR, I like the Stones alot, but still
> think it a perfect analogy.

I don't like the analogy at all.

For me (and, of course, I'm only speaking for myself), music is the ultimate
artistic expression. This is because art is all about it's ability to evoke
emotional responses in humans that have little or nothing to do with the
media used to produce the magic. There is something exceptional about the
medium of music that allows it to evoke responses in us that transcend our
ability to describe it. In fact, that is the point.

I couldn't possibly convey to you the experience I had listening to 'So
What?' for the first time. I could try, and if you had experienced
something similiar, maybe you'd understand. But the point is, I can't
really convey my experience with that any better than I can describe what it
felt like seeing my first-born child screaming bloody murder in the hospital
on her 0th birthday. Both of those 'media' were hard-wired into my makeup
in such a way that I could never really doing anything with it with words
that would get past superficial. Music is in some ways a better
communicator than language itself.

The point of music as an art form is not technical excellence. Technical
excellence is great, but only if it is used to do excellently what music is
supposed to do. Unfortunately, some of the technically gifted have a bad
tendency of forgetting what exactly that is, and the artistic merit of a
musician becomes boiled down to their ability to perform intricate circus
tricks that only an insider would understand. Some musicians can jump
through all the hoops of fire, and fellow musicians are so awed by it that
they fail to notice that the technical fireworks are part of a funeral
dirge. Other musicians are so bad at those tricks that they are only
vaguely aware that they even exist, but nevertheless excel at doing what
music is supposed to do. IMnotsoHO, Keith Richards is one of them. Rock
music is full of those types.

Keith will never be considered a gifted guitarist by anyone that is remotely
qualified to chime in on the subject. So he sucks as a guitarist. Can you
really say that he sucks as an artist? I suck at the guitar. I can play
'Honky Tonk Woman', given 30 minutes and some tabs. I cannot do what Keith
Richards did with those ridiculously simple riffs of his. I've heard some
really gifted guitar players who will never do anything as evocative as
that. Hell, I've heard really gifted guitarists who can't play 'Honky Tonk
Woman' 1/2 as well as Keith Richards, if you accept my criteria for success
(of course, they didn't have Charlie to lay down the tracks for them, did
they?).

KG does not suck because of technical incompetence. He sucks because his
stuff is music to fill root canals by. There is no music in his music. That
would be equally true if he were gifted technically, which for all I know he
is.

On the other hand, Miles Davis was not an exceptional musician because he
could navigate complicated harmonic relationships on the fly. He was
exceptional because he could blow our minds with a half-note well-played.

Keith Richards didn't do much root canal fillin' music as far as I can tell.
As obligatory (?) golf content, I'll speculate that he could have been a +2
handicapper if it hadn't been for heroin, and maybe Whiskey (though that
hasn't stopped many a golfer). That lithe framework has beyond-scratch
written all over it. Plus he's English. They have it in their blood, if
only by way of conquest. What good golf ever came out of Seattle? They're
just not built for it out there. They should stick to their lattes and
leave the constant rain and dreary weather sports to those more acclimated
to it.

Scott

Date: 05 Nov 2006 17:06:16
From: slot
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

Chris Bellomy wrote:
> In rec.sport.golf annika1980 <annika1980@aol.com> wrote:
> :
> : slot wrote:
> :> The ranking is based on handicaps, some official, some not-so-official.
> :> Kenny G's handicap is a plus-0.6, meaning his average score is better
> :> than par.
> :>
> :> He tells the magazine he needs improvement.
> :
> : He may be a +0.6 on the golf course, but he's a 36 as a jazz musician.
>
> You don't even need to qualify this with "jazz." Dude can't
> play in tune. Even I can play soprano sax better than him.
>

Sure, you're just not interested in performing, world travel, money or
fame.

Date: 07 Nov 2006 01:24:05
From: Chris Bellomy
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

In rec.sport.golf slot <jazzjitsu@yahoo.com > wrote:
:
: Chris Bellomy wrote:
: > In rec.sport.golf annika1980 <annika1980@aol.com> wrote:
: > :
: > : slot wrote:
: > :> The ranking is based on handicaps, some official, some not-so-official.
: > :> Kenny G's handicap is a plus-0.6, meaning his average score is better
: > :> than par.
: > :>
: > :> He tells the magazine he needs improvement.
: > :
: > : He may be a +0.6 on the golf course, but he's a 36 as a jazz musician.
: >
: > You don't even need to qualify this with "jazz." Dude can't
: > play in tune. Even I can play soprano sax better than him.
:
: Sure, you're just not interested in performing, world travel, money or
: fame.

Not by being the one hack willing to suck enough cock to make
those other things happen. Damn straight.

--
Chris Bellomy
C-List Charter Member
http://clist.org/

Date: 05 Nov 2006 17:04:37
From: slot
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

Matt 'Ocho' Aamold wrote:
> World class Saxaphonist ?????
>

+ Billboard Magazine's "Jazz Artist of The Decade" ('80s)

+ top instrumentalist in Playboy, Downbeat, and Rolling Stone
Magazine's Readers Polls

+ Grammy Award in 1993 for "Forever In Love"

+ American Music Award for Favorite Adult Contemporary Artist in 1994

+ R.I.A.A. (Recording Industry Association of America) list of the 25
Top Selling Artists of All Time

+ eight albums have sold more than 36 million copies worldwide to date.

World class, baby.

Date: 06 Nov 2006 04:38:26
From: muk
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

On 5 Nov 2006 17:04:37 -0800, "slot" <jazzjitsu@yahoo.com > :

>
>Matt 'Ocho' Aamold wrote:
>> World class Saxaphonist ?????
>>
>
>
>+ Billboard Magazine's "Jazz Artist of The Decade" ('80s)
>
>+ top instrumentalist in Playboy, Downbeat, and Rolling Stone
>Magazine's Readers Polls
>
>+ Grammy Award in 1993 for "Forever In Love"
>
>+ American Music Award for Favorite Adult Contemporary Artist in 1994
>
>+ R.I.A.A. (Recording Industry Association of America) list of the 25
>Top Selling Artists of All Time
>
>+ eight albums have sold more than 36 million copies worldwide to date.
>
>
>
>World class, baby.

Milli Vanilli's stats don't look too bad either !

Date: 05 Nov 2006 20:04:14
From: Matt 'Ocho' Aamold
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

"slot" <jazzjitsu@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1162775077.429592.110420@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> World class, baby.

Eh...holding notes, running up and down a harmonic scale and playing
irritatingly sharp all the time a musician does not make.

Date: 06 Nov 2006 05:08:02
From: Robert Hamilton
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

Date: 06 Nov 2006 14:36:15
From: David J. Littleboy
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

"Robert Hamilton" <DBID@att.net > wrote:
> Matt 'Ocho' Aamold wrote:
>
>> "slot" <jazzjitsu@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1162775077.429592.110420@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> > World class, baby.
>>
>> Eh...holding notes, running up and down a harmonic scale and playing
>> irritatingly sharp all the time a musician does not make.
>
> Sounds good on elevators though! ;^)

It sounds just as disgusting on elevators as anywhere else.

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan

Date: 06 Nov 2006 05:45:43
From: Max Leggett
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 14:36:15 +0900, "David J. Littleboy"
<davidjl@gol.com > wrote:

>"Robert Hamilton" <DBID@att.net> wrote:
>> Matt 'Ocho' Aamold wrote:
>>
>>> "slot" <jazzjitsu@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:1162775077.429592.110420@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>> > World class, baby.
>>>
>>> Eh...holding notes, running up and down a harmonic scale and playing
>>> irritatingly sharp all the time a musician does not make.
>>
>> Sounds good on elevators though! ;^)
>
>It sounds just as disgusting on elevators as anywhere else.
>

Yes, but it's disgusting in a peculiarly world class way. His fans are
ditto, less the class.

--------------------------------------
Without music, life is a mistayke.
Friedrich "Spelling R Us" Nietzsche
--------------------------------------

Date: 06 Nov 2006 09:52:13
From: Random Excess
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 05:08:02 GMT, Robert Hamilton <DBID@att.net >
wrote:

>
>
>Matt 'Ocho' Aamold wrote:
>
>> "slot" <jazzjitsu@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1162775077.429592.110420@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> > World class, baby.
>>
>> Eh...holding notes, running up and down a harmonic scale and playing
>> irritatingly sharp all the time a musician does not make.
>
>Sounds good on elevators though! ;^)
>

Kenny G walks into an elevator and says, "Man, this place is
Happening!"

TP

"What, me worry? I'm voting for Kinky!"

Date: 05 Nov 2006 19:42:29
From: Bobby Knight
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

On 5 Nov 2006 17:04:37 -0800, "slot" <jazzjitsu@yahoo.com > wrote:

>
>Matt 'Ocho' Aamold wrote:
>> World class Saxaphonist ?????
>>
>
>
>+ Billboard Magazine's "Jazz Artist of The Decade" ('80s)
>
>+ top instrumentalist in Playboy, Downbeat, and Rolling Stone
>Magazine's Readers Polls
>
>+ Grammy Award in 1993 for "Forever In Love"
>
>+ American Music Award for Favorite Adult Contemporary Artist in 1994
>
>+ R.I.A.A. (Recording Industry Association of America) list of the 25
>Top Selling Artists of All Time
>
>+ eight albums have sold more than 36 million copies worldwide to date.
>
>
>
>World class, baby.

Only in sales of schlock music

Date: 05 Nov 2006 16:03:14
From: BigPurdueFan
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

Sparky wrote:
> On 5-Nov-2006, Chris Bellomy <puevf@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid> wrote:
>
> > In rec.sport.golf annika1980 <annika1980@aol.com> wrote:
> > :
> > : slot wrote:
> > :> The ranking is based on handicaps, some official, some not-so-official.
> > :> Kenny G's handicap is a plus-0.6, meaning his average score is better
> > :> than par.
> > :>
> > :> He tells the magazine he needs improvement.
> > :
> > : He may be a +0.6 on the golf course, but he's a 36 as a jazz musician.
> >
> > You don't even need to qualify this with "jazz." Dude can't
> > play in tune. Even I can play soprano sax better than him.
>
> And I'm willing to bet I can wax him in golf...

He's a hack....see below from last year:

KENNY GORELICK CHOPS IT ON NATIONWIDE TOUR,
BUT KENNY G SHOWS HIS CHOPS ON 'DUETS ALBUM'

The Starter has always been an "agate man," scanning the scores -
the agate type - from around the world looking for the most
interesting of tidbits.

This week, you have to go to the very bottom of the Nationwide Tour
list to find an amateur named Kenny Gorelick, who shot 82-83-165 to
finish dead last in the Mark Christopher Charity Classic.

But it's a good thing Gorelick has a regular job to fall back on -
he's much better known as Kenny G, the No. 1 selling instrumental
recording artist of all time.

Date: 06 Nov 2006 09:00:49
From: Andy Eng
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

slot wrote:
<snip >

> Rocker Alice Cooper, 11th on the list with a 5.3 handicap, said playing
> golf helped him kick his drug habit.
>
> "Golf is the crack of sports," he told the magazine. "Once I took it
> seriously, I loved it. It absolutely saved my life."

<snip >

> Other stars on the Golf Digest rankings include Justin Timberlake (No.
> 15), Englebert Humperdinck (23), Celine Dion (62) and Pink (100).

Celine & Alice I'm cool with.

That Mick Fleetwood & Stephen Stills were highlighted was also nice...

I'll have to pass on the jazz and many of the others...

Date: 06 Nov 2006 08:06:12
From: zumafan
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

On Nov 4, 11:01 pm, "slot" <jazzji...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Wednesday, November 1, 2006 - Page updated at 12:00 AM
>
> Magazine ranks Kenny G as No. 1 musical golfer
> By The Associated Press
>
> LOS ANGELES - Saxophonist Kenny G has more to brag about than his
> world-class saxophone-playing. He's the best golfer among music-makers,
> according to Golf Digest's ranking of the "Top 100 in Music."
>

My man Neil Young clocks in at #72 with an 18.6 index. Rock on Neil!
(and don't bother posting about how "technically inproficient" he is as
a singer and guitarist, cuz I don't care).

Date: 06 Nov 2006 10:29:55
From: Bobby Knight
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

On 6 Nov 2006 08:06:12 -0800, "zumafan" <mgeorg@gmail.com > wrote:

>
>
>On Nov 4, 11:01 pm, "slot" <jazzji...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Wednesday, November 1, 2006 - Page updated at 12:00 AM
>>
>> Magazine ranks Kenny G as No. 1 musical golfer
>> By The Associated Press
>>
>> LOS ANGELES - Saxophonist Kenny G has more to brag about than his
>> world-class saxophone-playing. He's the best golfer among music-makers,
>> according to Golf Digest's ranking of the "Top 100 in Music."
>>
>
>My man Neil Young clocks in at #72 with an 18.6 index. Rock on Neil!
>(and don't bother posting about how "technically inproficient" he is as
>a singer and guitarist, cuz I don't care).

There's no comparison.
___,
\o

Date: 06 Nov 2006 15:17:46
From: DanL
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

"The ranking is based on handicaps, some official, some not-so-official.
Kenny G's handicap is a plus-0.6, meaning his average score is better
than par."

Someone should tell the writer that handicaps are not based on par and are
not "average scores".

Date: 06 Nov 2006 07:10:37
From: oconnell@slr.orl.lmco.com
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

Steven Bornfeld wrote:
> slot wrote:
> > Indeed. Metheny's a great guitarist but he ought to keep his mouth
> > shut. He should have just said that he didn't like the G-man's version
> > of Wonderful World and left it at that, instead of making preposterous
> > claims about "defiling" art.
>
> No he shouldn't. Explaining why it angered him so much would be self
> evident to many of us, it is true; but obviously not everyone.
> Not liking something is not precisely the same thing as objecting to
> someones' painting a moustache on the Mona Lisa.

Actually, and this is the point, is it is more like painting a
mustache on
a COPY of a Mona Lisa. It's like someone making a golf course
which copies (badly) various famous golf holes from around
the world. It's like someone making a computer game where one
can "play" golf on various famous courses. Basically the guy plays
music in a manner which Metheny doesn't like. Feherty says
Fuyrk's swing looks like a man trying to kill a snake in a phone
booth. I don't think that's a compliment, but I suspect
Dave doesn't think that Jim "defiles" golf either.

Date: 06 Nov 2006 15:34:19
From: Mark & Steven Bornfeld
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

oconnell@slr.orl.lmco.com wrote:
> Steven Bornfeld wrote:
>
>>slot wrote:
>>
>>>Indeed. Metheny's a great guitarist but he ought to keep his mouth
>>>shut. He should have just said that he didn't like the G-man's version
>>>of Wonderful World and left it at that, instead of making preposterous
>>>claims about "defiling" art.
>>
>> No he shouldn't. Explaining why it angered him so much would be self
>>evident to many of us, it is true; but obviously not everyone.
>> Not liking something is not precisely the same thing as objecting to
>>someones' painting a moustache on the Mona Lisa.
>
>
>
> Actually, and this is the point, is it is more like painting a
> mustache on
> a COPY of a Mona Lisa.

Eh, that reduces it to a childish prank, which I doubt was G's intent.
I doubt that many think that defiles the memory of Leonardo.
Music is not a visual art, and my analogy was far from perfect. My
point was that Louis Armstrong was a man and musician, but he is also a
cultural and musical icon. I'm sure that G wouldn't think about how Pat
would react. I agree that Pat's reaction was a bit over the top, but I
totally understand his position--as would anyone who knows the position
Armstrong holds in the musical pantheon. Whether you react violently
(as Pat did) or shrug your shoulders and say "well, that's
America--anything for the buck" which would be more my reaction--it
remains manifestly disrespectful. I'm guessing G saw it as loving
tribute. If he honestly believed that it would be received that way,
he's not a very smart man.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Date: 06 Nov 2006 13:58:09
From: Steven Bornfeld
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

slot wrote:
> Wednesday, November 1, 2006 - Page updated at 12:00 AM
>
> Magazine ranks Kenny G as No. 1 musical golfer
> By The Associated Press
>

Only because Dino is gone (sniff!!)

Steve

Date: 06 Nov 2006 02:53:11
From: slot
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

Bobby Knight wrote:
>
>
> Kenny G is NOT an avante garde player,

Thank god for that.

> He's not well regarded as
> a player

Depends on who you talk to. 75 million records sold worldwide say he's
more well regarded than most.

Date: 06 Nov 2006 08:08:33
From: Bobby Knight
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

On 6 Nov 2006 02:53:11 -0800, "slot" <jazzjitsu@yahoo.com > wrote:

>
>Bobby Knight wrote:
>>
>>
>> Kenny G is NOT an avante garde player,
>
>Thank god for that.
>
>
>
>> He's not well regarded as
>> a player
>
>Depends on who you talk to. 75 million records sold worldwide say he's
>more well regarded than most.

More regarded by whom? The generally clueless, who will buy
anything?

Talk to professional musicians and see what they say...not about
popularity, but ability.
bk

Date: 07 Nov 2006 01:44:17
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 08:08:33 -0600, Bobby Knight <bknight@conramp.net >
wrote:

> More regarded by whom? The generally clueless, who will buy
>anything?

I like to be snobbish about my tastes as well - most of use do.

> Talk to professional musicians and see what they say...not about
>popularity, but ability.

There are lots of artists well regarded by their peers who I don't
care for - For instance, Art Tatum. In a matter of taste, are they
right and me wrong? Or is the guy who prefers his steak well done
right and me wrong?

Just because we seem to agree about Kenny G doesn't make those who
like him wrong.

Date: 06 Nov 2006 06:53:29
From: William A. T. Clark
Subject: Re: Democrats cannot be trusted to govern

In article <1162769604.120247.190360@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com >,
"larryrsf" <larry@delmardata.com > wrote:

> On Nov 4, 3:43 pm, Bert Robbins <s...@you.com> wrote:
> > William A. T. Clark wrote:
> >
> > > In article <dLadnTU5zP29f9HYnZ2dnUVZ_sCdn...@comcast.com>,
> > > Bert Robbins <s...@you.com> wrote:
> >
> > >> Head Shot wrote:
> > >>> William A. T. Clark wrote:
> > >>>> How truly pathetic. It is not this country I dislike, but idiots like
> > >>>> you that want to subject us all to your brand of totalitarianism.
> > >> If you don't like it here, in the US of a, there are almost 200 other
> > >> countries in the world that you may choose to go to. If you need a plane
> > >> ticket let us know and we will take up a collection for you.
> >
> > > Oh, dear, oh, dear. The same tired old "if you don't agree with me, then
> > > leave the country" trash. People like Hitler and Mussolini came to power
> > > pushing that kind of philosophy.Nice try.
> >
> > You have your choice of nearly 200 countries, pick one that more suites
> > your political and social views and go there to live. Write when you get
> > work.
>
> AND, you would have equal standing to criticize the government in
> France or Turkey or Venzuela as you do here-- i.e. NONE. Your opinion
> is simply irrelevant--and very unwelcome. It would be very polite to
> just keep quiet during another nation's national debates. Most foreign
> nationals here do keep quiet unless asked. You would be not so
> politely asked to keep quiet in virtually every country in the
> world--including the UK. SOME of those countries, such as Mexico and
> Cuba, etc. would take strong exception to your voice and writings about
> their politicians-- and likely clap you in jail-- and there they would
> likely clap you with some other stuff. We won't do that here, but I do
> suggest you just STFU -- as I would do in the UK.
>
> Larry

Ooooh, Larry, getting tetchy in your old age. STFU? I am sure your
ex-admiral buddies would be proud of that.

Oh, and by the way, your post is pure garbage - I would have full rights
in European countries; the EEC requires it. Now toddle off and find some
other neocon web rant to cut and paste.

William Clark

Date: 06 Nov 2006 02:50:49
From: slot
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

Bobby Knight wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Nov 2006 06:15:25 -0500, "Jackson" <hackman55@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> >You must consider the source (Metheny) to get the correct view on this
> >situation. This guy is a whacko and really should keep his comments to
> >himself. Music is subjective unlike golf.
>
> Music is subjective? Only to those who listen without any knowledge of
> it.
>
> Do you know what intonation is? Are you aware of chordal
> progression, and what happens if you don't play jazz within that
> structure? Have you a concept of time, and tempo?
>
> Before you make statements like that, you need to check around with
> some real musicians.
>
> All of those things are objective, and KG doesn't pass muster for any
> of them.

Bullshit.

Kenny G's got all that down pat. He couldn't be the international
superstar that he is if he didn't.

> Metheny may not appeal to you, but he damned sure knows what
> music is, and is correct about Kenny G.

Yes, Metheny knows what music is. So does Kenny. So what? Metheny is
still an ass and KG still outsells PG at the record store and the box
office.

Date: 06 Nov 2006 08:05:34
From: Bobby Knight
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

On 6 Nov 2006 02:50:49 -0800, "slot" <jazzjitsu@yahoo.com > wrote:

>
>Bobby Knight wrote:

>> All of those things are objective, and KG doesn't pass muster for any
>> of them.
>
>Bullshit.
>
>Kenny G's got all that down pat. He couldn't be the international
>superstar that he is if he didn't.
>
Really? That's so naive that it doesn't deserve an answer.

You don't know shit about music. Period.
BK

Date: 06 Nov 2006 02:46:38
From: slot
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

Indeed. Metheny's a great guitarist but he ought to keep his mouth
shut. He should have just said that he didn't like the G-man's version
of Wonderful World and left it at that, instead of making preposterous
claims about "defiling" art.

Jackson wrote:
> You must consider the source (Metheny) to get the correct view on this
> situation. This guy is a whacko and really should keep his comments to
> himself. Music is subjective unlike golf.
> <strat68@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1162713189.864462.310330@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > muk wrote:
> >> >Magazine ranks Kenny G as No. 1 musical golfer
> >> >By The Associated Press
> >>
> >>
> >> This is what Pat Metheny has to say about Kenny G's music. I tend to
> >> agree:
> >>
> >> "(in reference to Kenny G's overdubbing of Louis Armstrong's "What a
> >> Wonderful World") 'When Kenny G decided that it was appropriate for
> >> him to defile the music of the man (Louis Armstrong) who is probably
> >> the greatest jazz musician that has ever lived by spewing his
> >> lame-ass, jive, pseudo bluesy, out-of-tune, noodling, wimped out,
> >> fucked up playing all over one of the great Louis' tracks (even one of
> >> his lesser ones), he did something that I would not have imagined
> >> possible'"
> >
> > Yawn... we've been through this before. Golf skill was the gist of
> > this article and we know she don't lie. Big deal so Kenny G is the
> > "Keith Richards" of jazz. He made a few riffs that makes some average
> > joe's happy and sold lots of records. Don't like??, point your stylus
> > elsewhere.
> >

Date: 06 Nov 2006 14:13:37
From: Steven Bornfeld
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

slot wrote:
> Indeed. Metheny's a great guitarist but he ought to keep his mouth
> shut. He should have just said that he didn't like the G-man's version
> of Wonderful World and left it at that, instead of making preposterous
> claims about "defiling" art.

No he shouldn't. Explaining why it angered him so much would be self
evident to many of us, it is true; but obviously not everyone.
Not liking something is not precisely the same thing as objecting to
someones' painting a moustache on the Mona Lisa.

Steve
>

Date: 05 Nov 2006 23:58:45
From: slot
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

Max Leggett wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 14:36:15 +0900, "David J. Littleboy"
> <davidjl@gol.com> wrote:
>
> >"Robert Hamilton" <DBID@att.net> wrote:
> >> Matt 'Ocho' Aamold wrote:
> >>
> >>> "slot" <jazzjitsu@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >>> news:1162775077.429592.110420@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> >>> > World class, baby.
> >>>
> >>> Eh...holding notes, running up and down a harmonic scale and playing
> >>> irritatingly sharp all the time a musician does not make.
> >>
> >> Sounds good on elevators though! ;^)
> >
> >It sounds just as disgusting on elevators as anywhere else.
> >
>
> Yes, but it's disgusting in a peculiarly world class way. His fans are
> ditto, less the class.
>
>

My goodness but you're looking rather green. And Christmas is still 7
weeks away.

Date: 06 Nov 2006 07:48:14
From: George Hibbard
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

In my former life I was a classically trained pianist and teacher (6 years
post graduate work included), and I also adjudicated piano competitions held
at the Peabody Conservatory in Baltimore, Md. on behalf of the Md. State
MusicTeachers Association. I never had any interest in popular music at
all, not my taste. I guess it makes me a redneck to admit that I
thoroughly enjoyed a live KG concert about 8 years ago in the same
auditorium where I waxed ecstatic over a performance of the Brahms 2nd Piano
Concerto shortly afterward, and near another spot where I also greatly
enjoyed a jazz concert a year later. I have never in my life heard such
INCREDIBLE APPLAUSE AND SCREAMING WITH DELIGHT as I did at that KG concert!
Amazing. Lots of rednecks there with me, I guess.

When I was watching one of the pro-am segments of a tournament a couple
years ago I saw this beautiful pro-quality swing executed by someone I
didn't recognize, so I wondered who was the new kid on the block. It turned
out to be none other than the amateur KG himself. I was impressed.

But what does that count for? Apparently his commercial success is
meaningless and his wonderful swing an illusion (do other people enjoy his
music, and is his full time job something other than honing his golf GAME
into precision --those parts called precise direction and distance control,
chipping, putting, etc.).

Knock Knock, Who's There?

Envy and his siblings. Now you didn't need to ask that because we infuse
our posts with denigration.

Perhaps when we redo the real world with our version of a perfect world we
should eliminate "feel good music." That doesn't qualify as MUSIC.
CLASSICS ONLY ALLOWED. And the art galleries should only exhibit works
where the artist has been dead for a minimum of 100 years and we have had
time to decide if our "liking it" is worthy of us as perfect people.

-----------

"slot" <jazzjitsu@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1162799925.088384.223630@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Max Leggett wrote:
>> On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 14:36:15 +0900, "David J. Littleboy"
>> <davidjl@gol.com> wrote:
>>
>> >"Robert Hamilton" <DBID@att.net> wrote:
>> >> Matt 'Ocho' Aamold wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> "slot" <jazzjitsu@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> >>> news:1162775077.429592.110420@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> >>> > World class, baby.
>> >>>
>> >>> Eh...holding notes, running up and down a harmonic scale and playing
>> >>> irritatingly sharp all the time a musician does not make.
>> >>
>> >> Sounds good on elevators though! ;^)
>> >
>> >It sounds just as disgusting on elevators as anywhere else.
>> >
>>
>> Yes, but it's disgusting in a peculiarly world class way. His fans are
>> ditto, less the class.
>>
>>
>
> My goodness but you're looking rather green. And Christmas is still 7
> weeks away.
>

Date: 06 Nov 2006 14:21:00
From: Steven Bornfeld
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

George Hibbard wrote:
> In my former life I was a classically trained pianist and teacher (6 years
> post graduate work included), and I also adjudicated piano competitions held
> at the Peabody Conservatory in Baltimore, Md. on behalf of the Md. State
> MusicTeachers Association. I never had any interest in popular music at
> all, not my taste. I guess it makes me a redneck to admit that I
> thoroughly enjoyed a live KG concert about 8 years ago in the same
> auditorium where I waxed ecstatic over a performance of the Brahms 2nd Piano
> Concerto shortly afterward, and near another spot where I also greatly
> enjoyed a jazz concert a year later. I have never in my life heard such
> INCREDIBLE APPLAUSE AND SCREAMING WITH DELIGHT as I did at that KG concert!
> Amazing. Lots of rednecks there with me, I guess.
>
> When I was watching one of the pro-am segments of a tournament a couple
> years ago I saw this beautiful pro-quality swing executed by someone I
> didn't recognize, so I wondered who was the new kid on the block. It turned
> out to be none other than the amateur KG himself. I was impressed.
>
> But what does that count for? Apparently his commercial success is
> meaningless and his wonderful swing an illusion (do other people enjoy his
> music, and is his full time job something other than honing his golf GAME
> into precision --those parts called precise direction and distance control,
> chipping, putting, etc.).
>
> Knock Knock, Who's There?
>
> Envy and his siblings. Now you didn't need to ask that because we infuse
> our posts with denigration.
>
> Perhaps when we redo the real world with our version of a perfect world we
> should eliminate "feel good music." That doesn't qualify as MUSIC.
> CLASSICS ONLY ALLOWED. And the art galleries should only exhibit works
> where the artist has been dead for a minimum of 100 years and we have had
> time to decide if our "liking it" is worthy of us as perfect people.

It's not really Kenny G I object to. In fact, the dental society has
threatened to expel me for not being a golfer.
It's really Slot I object to. He's not here to inform, nor to inspire,
nor to impart knowledge. He's here to poke his finger in the eye of
musicians who don't share his opinion.
I think the strong reaction to Slot should be looked at in that
context. I know that's how I feel. Kenny I'm sure is a nice, hamishe
boy. I'm sure his mother is proud of him. He hasn't come around
denigrating our taste, calling us jealous. I'm guessing his sidemen and
women don't have to sling around under pseudonyms denying they work for
him. They probably have other gigs where they do music Slot would hate.
I do agree that recording over a Louis Armstrong cut was beyond the
pale, even a piece of pap like "Wonderful World". But that wouldn't
incite me to physical violence because...I respect the Constitution of
the United States!!!

Steve
>
> -----------
>
>
>
>
> "slot" <jazzjitsu@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1162799925.088384.223630@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> Max Leggett wrote:
>>> On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 14:36:15 +0900, "David J. Littleboy"
>>> <davidjl@gol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Robert Hamilton" <DBID@att.net> wrote:
>>>>> Matt 'Ocho' Aamold wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "slot" <jazzjitsu@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:1162775077.429592.110420@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>> World class, baby.
>>>>>> Eh...holding notes, running up and down a harmonic scale and playing
>>>>>> irritatingly sharp all the time a musician does not make.
>>>>> Sounds good on elevators though! ;^)
>>>> It sounds just as disgusting on elevators as anywhere else.
>>>>
>>> Yes, but it's disgusting in a peculiarly world class way. His fans are
>>> ditto, less the class.
>>>
>>>
>> My goodness but you're looking rather green. And Christmas is still 7
>> weeks away.
>>
>
>

Date: 06 Nov 2006 17:35:05
From: Peter Grey
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

"Steven Bornfeld" <dentaltwinmung@earthlink.net > wrote in message
news:gxH3h.3233orthy of us as perfect people.

> It's not really Kenny G I object to. In fact, the dental society has
> threatened to expel me for not being a golfer.
> It's really Slot I object to. He's not here to inform, nor to inspire,
> nor to impart knowledge. He's here to poke his finger in the eye of
> musicians who don't share his opinion.

I long ago kill-filed Slot, so I'm coming into this discussion without
knowing exactly what it is he did to instigate this thread (Apparently, I
currently have too much time on my hands because I've actually read some of
these posts). However, I have to ask with the best of intentions...

Why do you guys waste time responding to Slot? For him, the argument and
"debate" are the ends, not the means. You're never going to change his mind
and you're never going to "win" these arguments. Just ignore Slot, don't
buy KennyG records, and get on with your life.

Regards,

Peter

Date: 06 Nov 2006 11:59:07
From: Bobby Knight
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 17:35:05 GMT, "Peter Grey" <pgrey@earthlink.net >
wrote:

<clip >
>Why do you guys waste time responding to Slot? For him, the argument and
>"debate" are the ends, not the means. You're never going to change his mind
>and you're never going to "win" these arguments. Just ignore Slot, don't
>buy KennyG records, and get on with your life.
>
>Regards,
>
>Peter
>
Frankly, he crossposted to rec.sport.golf, where I don't have him
killfiled....and I didn't even recognize his name from
rec.music.bluenote, where he Is KF'd. You're right about him and KG
though. Slot's deeply in love, and probably lust :-)
bk

Date: 06 Nov 2006 20:01:05
From: Paul
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

On 11/6/06 12:35 PM, in article
dnK3h.3625$ig4.1121@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net, "Peter Grey"
<pgrey@earthlink.net > wrote:

>
>
> "Steven Bornfeld" <dentaltwinmung@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:gxH3h.3233orthy of us as perfect people.
>
>> It's not really Kenny G I object to. In fact, the dental society has
>> threatened to expel me for not being a golfer.
>> It's really Slot I object to. He's not here to inform, nor to inspire,
>> nor to impart knowledge. He's here to poke his finger in the eye of
>> musicians who don't share his opinion.
>
> I long ago kill-filed Slot, so I'm coming into this discussion without
> knowing exactly what it is he did to instigate this thread (Apparently, I
> currently have too much time on my hands because I've actually read some of
> these posts). However, I have to ask with the best of intentions...
>
> Why do you guys waste time responding to Slot? For him, the argument and
> "debate" are the ends, not the means. You're never going to change his mind
> and you're never going to "win" these arguments. Just ignore Slot, don't
> buy KennyG records, and get on with your life.
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter
>
>
Peter

As you are getting on with your life, if you feel nevertheless that you must
contribute to one of his threads, don't forget to remove the crossposting,
since that is slot's main strategy in keeping these threads going. It seems
that people posting with Google dont always understand this. You can always
post the same message to each NG if you feel you need to "warn" everbody.

Paul K.

Date: 06 Nov 2006 19:37:21
From: Mark & Steven Bornfeld
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

Peter Grey wrote:

> "Steven Bornfeld" <dentaltwinmung@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:gxH3h.3233orthy of us as perfect people.
>
>
>>It's not really Kenny G I object to. In fact, the dental society has
>>threatened to expel me for not being a golfer.
>>It's really Slot I object to. He's not here to inform, nor to inspire,
>>nor to impart knowledge. He's here to poke his finger in the eye of
>>musicians who don't share his opinion.
>
>
> I long ago kill-filed Slot, so I'm coming into this discussion without
> knowing exactly what it is he did to instigate this thread (Apparently, I
> currently have too much time on my hands because I've actually read some of
> these posts). However, I have to ask with the best of intentions...
>
> Why do you guys waste time responding to Slot? For him, the argument and
> "debate" are the ends, not the means. You're never going to change his mind
> and you're never going to "win" these arguments. Just ignore Slot, don't
> buy KennyG records, and get on with your life.
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter
>
>

You're absolutely right. I'll try to be good.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Date: 06 Nov 2006 08:18:53
From: Bobby Knight
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 07:48:14 -0500, "George Hibbard"
<gh@perfectimpact.com > wrote:

>In my former life I was a classically trained pianist and teacher (6 years
>post graduate work included), and I also adjudicated piano competitions held
>at the Peabody Conservatory in Baltimore, Md. on behalf of the Md. State
>MusicTeachers Association. I never had any interest in popular music at
>all, not my taste. I guess it makes me a redneck to admit that I
>thoroughly enjoyed a live KG concert about 8 years ago in the same
>auditorium where I waxed ecstatic over a performance of the Brahms 2nd Piano
>Concerto shortly afterward, and near another spot where I also greatly
>enjoyed a jazz concert a year later. I have never in my life heard such
>INCREDIBLE APPLAUSE AND SCREAMING WITH DELIGHT as I did at that KG concert!
>Amazing. Lots of rednecks there with me, I guess.
>
No one ever called KG fans rednecks. Where did you get that?
>When I was watching one of the pro-am segments of a tournament a couple
>years ago I saw this beautiful pro-quality swing executed by someone I
>didn't recognize, so I wondered who was the new kid on the block. It turned
>out to be none other than the amateur KG himself. I was impressed.
>
He's a hell of a golfer. That is not the question.
>But what does that count for? Apparently his commercial success is
>meaningless and his wonderful swing an illusion (do other people enjoy his
>music, and is his full time job something other than honing his golf GAME
>into precision --those parts called precise direction and distance control,
>chipping, putting, etc.).
>
>Knock Knock, Who's There?

In your case, George, someone that admittedly doesn't follow, or
understand music other than the classics.
>
>Envy and his siblings. Now you didn't need to ask that because we infuse
>our posts with denigration.
>
Or with opinion, based on background, knowledge and experience in the
subject. He's a good golfer, and that is where your opinion might be
worthwhile.

>Perhaps when we redo the real world with our version of a perfect world we
>should eliminate "feel good music." That doesn't qualify as MUSIC.
>CLASSICS ONLY ALLOWED. And the art galleries should only exhibit works
>where the artist has been dead for a minimum of 100 years and we have had
>time to decide if our "liking it" is worthy of us as perfect people.
>
You just don't get it. Feel good music is great, but even that should
be done musically. No art should be eliminated. The posit here is
not about KG's sales, but his musicianship. Since you admittedly
don't understand the medium, nor the question, you missed a good
opportunity to eschew the keyboard.

Great swing video.
___,
\o

Date: 06 Nov 2006 10:38:23
From: George Hibbard
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

Bobby: I am not passing on Kenny's technical skill or even on the "quality
of that kind of music." I am reporting the enjoyment I had and that a ton
of other people had listening to him. As I say, enjoying something that
much that is of such low quality (?) makes me a redneck.

I used to tell my pupils that when they played a classical piece or any
piece for that matter, if they DID NOT PLAY IT CLEARLY AND EXUBERANTLY OR
SWEETLY OR WHATEVERLY enough for EVERYONE in their audience TO ENJOY the
piece, they did not succeed, no matter how technically perfect or "great"
the piece or how well executed. It is not the slavish obedience to the
printed notes or the literal obedience that counts: it is what is
communicated, and in truth, 40 different renditions of the same piece by the
same pianist, and 40 different renditions by 40 different pianists, are ALL
DIFFERENT, and who is to judge the "best." That was an issue I faced as an
adjudicator, and I always gave preference to the performer with the clear
and meaningful message over the one with all the notes, the facility, and
the "correctness" who lacked something compelling to say.

And I just checked, enjoying is no longer mortal sin. I even GREATLY
enjoyed listening to Horowitz and Rubenstein when they were in advanced
years missing lots of notes: more than words can say!

The object of the average man's listening or being talked at is HIS
ENJOYMENT. And just like there are no pop quizzes about the perfection of
your understanding of theology [or whether your religion was "the right one]
for admission when you meet St. Peter , there are no requirements for your
enjoyment whether you think it is 'good music' by a standard beyond your
ken.

I enjoyed KG greatly: redneck, I guess. And he came across like he LOVED
GIVING ENJOYMENT.

"Bobby Knight" <bknight@conramp.net > wrote in message
news:sgguk2p1vcdc9d4mjkh2uhlhm6p3abiaiv@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 07:48:14 -0500, "George Hibbard"
> <gh@perfectimpact.com> wrote:
>
>>In my former life I was a classically trained pianist and teacher (6 years
>>post graduate work included), and I also adjudicated piano competitions
>>held
>>at the Peabody Conservatory in Baltimore, Md. on behalf of the Md. State
>>MusicTeachers Association. I never had any interest in popular music at
>>all, not my taste. I guess it makes me a redneck to admit that I
>>thoroughly enjoyed a live KG concert about 8 years ago in the same
>>auditorium where I waxed ecstatic over a performance of the Brahms 2nd
>>Piano
>>Concerto shortly afterward, and near another spot where I also greatly
>>enjoyed a jazz concert a year later. I have never in my life heard such
>>INCREDIBLE APPLAUSE AND SCREAMING WITH DELIGHT as I did at that KG
>>concert!
>>Amazing. Lots of rednecks there with me, I guess.
>>
> No one ever called KG fans rednecks. Where did you get that?
>>When I was watching one of the pro-am segments of a tournament a couple
>>years ago I saw this beautiful pro-quality swing executed by someone I
>>didn't recognize, so I wondered who was the new kid on the block. It
>>turned
>>out to be none other than the amateur KG himself. I was impressed.
>>
> He's a hell of a golfer. That is not the question.
>>But what does that count for? Apparently his commercial success is
>>meaningless and his wonderful swing an illusion (do other people enjoy his
>>music, and is his full time job something other than honing his golf GAME
>>into precision --those parts called precise direction and distance
>>control,
>>chipping, putting, etc.).
>>
>>Knock Knock, Who's There?
>
> In your case, George, someone that admittedly doesn't follow, or
> understand music other than the classics.
>>
>>Envy and his siblings. Now you didn't need to ask that because we infuse
>>our posts with denigration.
>>
> Or with opinion, based on background, knowledge and experience in the
> subject. He's a good golfer, and that is where your opinion might be
> worthwhile.
>
>>Perhaps when we redo the real world with our version of a perfect world we
>>should eliminate "feel good music." That doesn't qualify as MUSIC.
>>CLASSICS ONLY ALLOWED. And the art galleries should only exhibit works
>>where the artist has been dead for a minimum of 100 years and we have had
>>time to decide if our "liking it" is worthy of us as perfect people.
>>
> You just don't get it. Feel good music is great, but even that should
> be done musically. No art should be eliminated. The posit here is
> not about KG's sales, but his musicianship. Since you admittedly
> don't understand the medium, nor the question, you missed a good
> opportunity to eschew the keyboard.
>
> Great swing video.
> ___,
> \o
>

Date: 06 Nov 2006 09:57:09
From: Bobby Knight
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 10:38:23 -0500, "George Hibbard"
<gh@perfectimpact.com > wrote:

>Bobby: I am not passing on Kenny's technical skill or even on the "quality
>of that kind of music." I am reporting the enjoyment I had and that a ton
>of other people had listening to him. As I say, enjoying something that
>much that is of such low quality (?) makes me a redneck.
>

Nothing wrong with that. I would say that quality of music is
something very subjective, but the quality of a musician's skills is
not. It doesn't make you a redneck to enjoy any music. That title
only pertains to NASCAR enthusiasts :-)

(I'm kidding, I'm kidding)
___,
\o

Date: 05 Nov 2006 23:57:35
From: slot
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

Matt 'Ocho' Aamold wrote:
> "slot" <jazzjitsu@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1162775077.429592.110420@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > World class, baby.
>
> Eh...holding notes, running up and down a harmonic scale and playing
> irritatingly sharp all the time a musician does not make.

Geez, talk about stereotypes. If that's _all_ he did his career would
have been over before it started. Give the guy some credit for knowing
how to play, how to market his music, and how to service his fans. If
half the whiny jazz musicians complainig about Kenny's success could do
the same, jazz would have a little more life in it than the rat
carcass rotting under the dumpster.

Date: 06 Nov 2006 08:02:46
From: Bobby Knight
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

On 5 Nov 2006 23:57:35 -0800, "slot" <jazzjitsu@yahoo.com > wrote:

>
>Matt 'Ocho' Aamold wrote:
>> "slot" <jazzjitsu@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1162775077.429592.110420@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> > World class, baby.
>>
>> Eh...holding notes, running up and down a harmonic scale and playing
>> irritatingly sharp all the time a musician does not make.
>
>Geez, talk about stereotypes. If that's _all_ he did his career would
>have been over before it started. Give the guy some credit for knowing
>how to play, how to market his music, and how to service his fans. If
>half the whiny jazz musicians complainig about Kenny's success could do
>the same, jazz would have a little more life in it than the rat
>carcass rotting under the dumpster.

Marketing and servicing isn't making music. His abilities are what
are in question. Jazzers, on the whole, don't complain about the pop
successes of George Benson, Chuck Mangione, or even Stan Getz's bossa
nova releases. They could play. Just don't call KG a jazz anything.

BK

Date: 05 Nov 2006 23:53:22
From:
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

S McFarlane wrote:
>
> Keith will never be considered a gifted guitarist by anyone that is remotely
> qualified to chime in on the subject. So he sucks as a guitarist. Can you
> really say that he sucks as an artist?

If you mean recording artist/performer, I thought that was exactly what
I was saying. Remember, I do like the stones. A couple years back in
Guitar Player mag they asked Richards what was his formula for success,
and his reply was: "two fingers, a cigarette and an asshole." So even
he knows, which of course adds to the mojo and makes him cooler than
KG.

The analogy was in jazz circles KG, (borrowing from you) isn't a gifted
horn player by anyone remotely qualified, etc... as Richards isn't in
blues or rock circles. That's all, it doesn't mean that either can't
come out with a sucessful tune. The technical requirements for pop
success aren't all that high (recall "Don't Worry, Be Happy).

> KG does not suck because of technical incompetence. He sucks because his
> stuff is music to fill root canals by. There is no music in his music. That
> would be equally true if he were gifted technically, which for all I know he
> is.

Don't agree there, that's a subjective view, what a good song is,
flavor of chocolate vs. vanilla etc. I think the technical part it's a
little more complex than that. (it may be why he went pop).

Date: 06 Nov 2006 16:20:49
From: slot
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

Peter Grey wrote:

>
> Why do you guys waste time responding to Slot? For him, the argument and
> "debate" are the ends, not the means. You're never going to change his mind
> and you're never going to "win" these arguments. Just ignore Slot, don't
> buy KennyG records, and get on with your life.
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter

That is wonderful advice, Peter. Take control of your life. Make the
decisions that are important to you. Leave the rest alone. And stop
whining about things you can't control.

Date: 06 Nov 2006 16:17:39
From: slot
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

George Hibbard wrote:
> Bobby: I am not passing on Kenny's technical skill or even on the "quality
> of that kind of music." I am reporting the enjoyment I had and that a ton
> of other people had listening to him. As I say, enjoying something that
> much that is of such low quality (?) makes me a redneck.
>
> I used to tell my pupils that when they played a classical piece or any
> piece for that matter, if they DID NOT PLAY IT CLEARLY AND EXUBERANTLY OR
> SWEETLY OR WHATEVERLY enough for EVERYONE in their audience TO ENJOY the
> piece, they did not succeed, no matter how technically perfect or "great"
> the piece or how well executed. It is not the slavish obedience to the
> printed notes or the literal obedience that counts: it is what is
> communicated, and in truth, 40 different renditions of the same piece by the
> same pianist, and 40 different renditions by 40 different pianists, are ALL
> DIFFERENT, and who is to judge the "best." That was an issue I faced as an
> adjudicator, and I always gave preference to the performer with the clear
> and meaningful message over the one with all the notes, the facility, and
> the "correctness" who lacked something compelling to say.
>
> And I just checked, enjoying is no longer mortal sin. I even GREATLY
> enjoyed listening to Horowitz and Rubenstein when they were in advanced
> years missing lots of notes: more than words can say!
>
> The object of the average man's listening or being talked at is HIS
> ENJOYMENT. And just like there are no pop quizzes about the perfection of
> your understanding of theology [or whether your religion was "the right one]
> for admission when you meet St. Peter , there are no requirements for your
> enjoyment whether you think it is 'good music' by a standard beyond your
> ken.
>
> I enjoyed KG greatly: redneck, I guess. And he came across like he LOVED
> GIVING ENJOYMENT.
>
>

George, that was beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing.

Date: 06 Nov 2006 15:44:59
From: slot
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

Mark & Steven Bornfeld wrote:

>
> My
> point was that Louis Armstrong was a man and musician, but he is also a
> cultural and musical icon. I'm sure that G wouldn't think about how Pat
> would react. I agree that Pat's reaction was a bit over the top, but I
> totally understand his position--as would anyone who knows the position
> Armstrong holds in the musical pantheon.

What many people like you and Metheny forget is that Armstrong was
first and foremost an entertainer. I think Louis would have been happy
to record with Kenny G if he were alive to be invited.

> Whether you react violently
> (as Pat did) or shrug your shoulders and say "well, that's
> America--anything for the buck" which would be more my reaction--it
> remains manifestly disrespectful.

What was disrespectful was Pat publicly taking Kenny to task for a
three minute recording.

Date: 07 Nov 2006 20:35:52
From: Steven Bornfeld
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

slot wrote:
> Mark & Steven Bornfeld wrote:
>
>
>> My
>> point was that Louis Armstrong was a man and musician, but he is also a
>> cultural and musical icon. I'm sure that G wouldn't think about how Pat
>> would react. I agree that Pat's reaction was a bit over the top, but I
>> totally understand his position--as would anyone who knows the position
>> Armstrong holds in the musical pantheon.
>
> What many people like you and Metheny forget is that Armstrong was
> first and foremost an entertainer. I think Louis would have been happy
> to record with Kenny G if he were alive to be invited.
>
>
>
>
>> Whether you react violently
>> (as Pat did) or shrug your shoulders and say "well, that's
>> America--anything for the buck" which would be more my reaction--it
>> remains manifestly disrespectful.
>
>
> What was disrespectful was Pat publicly taking Kenny to task for a
> three minute recording.
>

Well, we disagree. Sorry.

Steve

Date: 06 Nov 2006 15:36:47
From: slot
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

Steven Bornfeld wrote:

> Kenny I'm sure is a nice, hamishe
> boy. I'm sure his mother is proud of him. He hasn't come around
> denigrating our taste, calling us jealous.

Exactly.

But look at the abuse regularly hurled his way by so-called "real"
musicians. They should be ashamed.

Date: 07 Nov 2006 00:05:30
From: Max Leggett
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

On 6 Nov 2006 15:36:47 -0800, "slot" <jazzjitsu@yahoo.com > wrote:

>
>But look at the abuse regularly hurled his way by so-called "real"
>musicians. They should be ashamed.
>
No they shouldn't. They're real musicians, after all.

--------------------------------------
Without music, life is a mistayke.
Friedrich "Spelling R Us" Nietzsche
--------------------------------------

Date: 07 Nov 2006 20:34:52
From: Steven Bornfeld
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

slot wrote:
> Steven Bornfeld wrote:
>
>> Kenny I'm sure is a nice, hamishe
>> boy. I'm sure his mother is proud of him. He hasn't come around
>> denigrating our taste, calling us jealous.
>
> Exactly.
>
> But look at the abuse regularly hurled his way by so-called "real"
> musicians. They should be ashamed.
>

Nah. Having a negative opinion is a sacred right, Mrs. G.

Steve

Date: 06 Nov 2006 15:34:09
From: slot
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

Date: 06 Nov 2006 15:31:32
From: slot
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

Bobby Knight wrote:
> On 6 Nov 2006 02:53:11 -0800, "slot" <jazzjitsu@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Bobby Knight wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Kenny G is NOT an avante garde player,
> >
> >Thank god for that.
> >
> >
> >
> >> He's not well regarded as
> >> a player
> >
> >Depends on who you talk to. 75 million records sold worldwide say he's
> >more well regarded than most.
>
> More regarded by whom? The generally clueless, who will buy
> anything?
>
> Talk to professional musicians and see what they say...not about
> popularity, but ability.
> bk

Professional musicians will pay respect where it is due. Pay no mind
to the nay sayers. Those criticzing KG are small-minded people
carrying chips the size of boulders on their shoulders.

Date: 07 Nov 2006 01:22:34
From: Chris Bellomy
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

In rec.sport.golf slot <jazzjitsu@yahoo.com > wrote:
: Bobby Knight wrote:

: > Talk to professional musicians and see what they say...not about
: > popularity, but ability.
:
: Professional musicians will pay respect where it is due.

There has been a professional musician in this thread trying
to set you straight, but apparently you're not quick enough
on the uptake to get it.

--
Chris Bellomy
C-List Charter Member
http://clist.org/

Date: 07 Nov 2006 00:04:40
From: Max Leggett
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

On 6 Nov 2006 15:31:32 -0800, "slot" <jazzjitsu@yahoo.com > wrote:

>
>
>Professional musicians will pay respect where it is due. Pay no mind
>to the nay sayers. Those criticzing KG are small-minded people
>carrying chips the size of boulders on their shoulders.
>
As opposed to wanky little wannabees like you.

--------------------------------------
Without music, life is a mistayke.
Friedrich "Spelling R Us" Nietzsche
--------------------------------------

Date: 06 Nov 2006 15:27:25
From: slot
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

Bobby Knight wrote:
> On 5 Nov 2006 23:57:35 -0800, "slot" <jazzjitsu@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Matt 'Ocho' Aamold wrote:
> >> "slot" <jazzjitsu@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >> news:1162775077.429592.110420@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> >> > World class, baby.
> >>
> >> Eh...holding notes, running up and down a harmonic scale and playing
> >> irritatingly sharp all the time a musician does not make.
> >
> >Geez, talk about stereotypes. If that's _all_ he did his career would
> >have been over before it started. Give the guy some credit for knowing
> >how to play, how to market his music, and how to service his fans. If
> >half the whiny jazz musicians complainig about Kenny's success could do
> >the same, jazz would have a little more life in it than the rat
> >carcass rotting under the dumpster.
>
> Marketing and servicing isn't making music. His abilities are what
> are in question. Jazzers, on the whole, don't complain about the pop
> successes of George Benson, Chuck Mangione, or even Stan Getz's bossa
> nova releases.

The hell they don't.

Marketing and servicing are part of what make a successful musician.
The jazzers that whine about KG are guys that don't want to get their
hands "dirty" with business.

Date: 06 Nov 2006 13:27:44
From: annika1980
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

zumafan wrote:
>
> My man Neil Young clocks in at #72 with an 18.6 index. Rock on Neil!
> (and don't bother posting about how "technically inproficient" he is as
> a singer and guitarist, cuz I don't care).

Isn't he the guy who said it's better to hit worm-burners than to hit
high fades?
Or something like that.

Then there was the song where he sang about "4 Down in Ohio."

Date: 06 Nov 2006 12:18:40
From:
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

On Nov 6, 2:24 pm, "EdSmithers" <spirosdarlo...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> S McFarlane wrote:
> > Keith will never be considered a gifted guitarist by anyone that is remotely
> > qualified to chime in on the subject.

> I'm just absolutely astonished by these remarks. Richards is one of the
> top 5 guitarists in history, and few have created as memorable or
> lasting riffs. Rolling Stone (oh, go ahead and tell me why they suck so
> bad now, too), had him #2 or #3 in their all time guitarist list a few
> years back. Yeah, I know, who cares? All of that.
>
> But when I hear someone - not just McFarlane - trash Keith, it just
> makes me realize that this planet may not be worth saving.

Wrong quote, S. McFarlane wasn't trashing him, and neither was I (Steve
H.) really, but I did use him as an example of someone with lower skill
BY HIS VERY OWN ADMISSION but has popular success and record sales.

Actually, this is very interesting because it's just like the current
political heat. But I'll drop it after this because the people who
respond emotionally only see the subjective part which can't be argued.

What I'm trying to say is your own personal feelings have nothing to do
with someone else's skill, and musical ability (objective and can be
measured) is different than musical enjoyment (subjective).

I personally think Bitch and Sticky Fingers in general is one of the
most ass-kickin rock and roll records of all time. However, I'm not
addressing my own feelings on it because the discussion started about
chops, which KR has very little. But amazing chops are not (always)
required to make a great enjoyable rock record. BTW, Rolling Stone
lists are readers polls which are personal feelings and popularity
contests.

If you haven't seen it, I recommend checking out the Stones' movie Rock
and Roll circus. The reason it wasn't released for 30 years is because
they had a lot of problems getting a good performance of their set,
particularly "Sympathy" where the other groups (the Who, Taj Mahal...)
just blew through their songs in one shot. I think Mick in particular
was embarassed by it (at least back then).

Back to golf, it's theoretically possible, that a non-golfer/movie
fanatic might say that Bill Murray or Rodney Dangerfield are great
golfers because they don't care about superior performance. I know you
think this sounds ridiculous, but it's nearly the same as saying
Richards is one of the top five players in the world. And it is not
"trashing" at all to say he isn't.

Date: 06 Nov 2006 11:37:50
From: Dene
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

slot wrote:
> Bobby Knight wrote:
> >
> >
> > Kenny G is NOT an avante garde player,
>
> Thank god for that.
>
>
>
> > He's not well regarded as
> > a player
>
> Depends on who you talk to. 75 million records sold worldwide say he's
> more well regarded than most.

Agree. I'm one of the throngs. I simply put his CD in and enjoy.
Ignorance is bliss but having a tin ear helps too. I still cannot tune
my guitar without the aid of a tuning device. I can tell when it's out
of tune but tuning it by ear....fuggetaboutit.

-Greg

Date: 06 Nov 2006 16:39:23
From: George Hibbard
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

"Dene" <gdstrue@aol.com > wrote in message
news:1162841870.737433.270780@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> Agree. I'm one of the throngs. I simply put his CD in and enjoy.
> Ignorance is bliss but having a tin ear helps too. I still cannot tune
> my guitar without the aid of a tuning device. I can tell when it's out
> of tune but tuning it by ear....fuggetaboutit.
>
> -Greg
>
Reminds me: Kenny's playing too sharp is quite intentional, thank you.

Date: 06 Nov 2006 23:17:13
From: Chris Bellomy
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

In rec.sport.golf George Hibbard <gh@perfectimpact.com > wrote:

: Reminds me: Kenny's playing too sharp is quite intentional, thank you.

You think he *intends* to sound like fingernails on a chalkboard?

Man, if so, that's the most brilliant mass ripoff since Lou
Reed released Metal Machine Music (which is more listenable
than Kenny G's catalog, btw).

--
Chris Bellomy
C-List Charter Member
http://clist.org/

Date: 06 Nov 2006 17:26:21
From: Bobby Knight
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 16:39:23 -0500, "George Hibbard"
<gh@perfectimpact.com > wrote:

>Reminds me: Kenny's playing too sharp is quite intentional, thank you.
>
WHAT?
--
___,
\o

Date: 06 Nov 2006 21:59:54
From: Laurence Payne
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 16:39:23 -0500, "George Hibbard"
<gh@perfectimpact.com > wrote:

>Reminds me: Kenny's playing too sharp is quite intentional, thank you.

Really? How odd. Some opera singers do this too, in an attempt to
cut through. It's not a good ides.

Date: 06 Nov 2006 23:34:49
From: Jos Geluk
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

Laurence Payne schreef:
> On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 16:39:23 -0500, "George Hibbard"
> <gh@perfectimpact.com> wrote:
>
>> Reminds me: Kenny's playing too sharp is quite intentional, thank you.
>
> Really? How odd. Some opera singers do this too, in an attempt to
> cut through. It's not a good ides.

Some Dancehall toasters do it too, I have noticed. And for the same
reason, I would guess. It's part of the style, like saxophones are
almost invariably played out of tune.

Jos.

--
Ardis Park Music
www.ardispark.nl

Date: 06 Nov 2006 22:02:53
From: Max Leggett
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 21:59:54 +0000, Laurence Payne
<lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom > wrote:

>>cut through. It's not a good ides.

Tell that to Caesar.

--------------------------------------
Without music, life is a mistayke.
Friedrich "Spelling R Us" Nietzsche
--------------------------------------

Date: 07 Nov 2006 07:28:22
From: George Hibbard
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

"Laurence Payne" <lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom > wrote in message
news:c1cvk2ha8ocvklc426ioca20p0la309jq5@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 16:39:23 -0500, "George Hibbard"
> <gh@perfectimpact.com> wrote:
>
>>Reminds me: Kenny's playing too sharp is quite intentional, thank you.
>
> Really? How odd. Some opera singers do this too, in an attempt to
> cut through. It's not a good ides.

I would say that depends on your taste: some like it hot, some mild...
Maybe the cutting through is for expressive emphasis, intensity....?

Overdoing it would be too much, but the very nature of it IS subjective. So
"art" is subjective. And personal. One man's meat is another's poison, and
all those kinds of platitudes work here.

As I mentioned, there is no pop quiz for entry....

The word "enjoyment" is : "en" -- tending toward (?): "joy" (speaks for
itself), and "ment" - a resulting state or product. Joy is THE ESSENCE OF
THE SUBJECTIVE EXPRESSION of the experience of divine filiation. Pretty
important concept, IMO.

Date: 06 Nov 2006 11:24:58
From: EdSmithers
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

S McFarlane wrote:

> Keith will never be considered a gifted guitarist by anyone that is remotely
> qualified to chime in on the subject.

I'm just absolutely astonished by these remarks. Richards is one of the
top 5 guitarists in history, and few have created as memorable or
lasting riffs. Rolling Stone (oh, go ahead and tell me why they suck so
bad now, too), had him #2 or #3 in their all time guitarist list a few
years back. Yeah, I know, who cares? All of that.

But when I hear someone - not just McFarlane - trash Keith, it just
makes me realize that this planet may not be worth saving.

Oh, shot 89 today.

Ed

Date: 07 Nov 2006 12:39:21
From: S McFarlane
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

"EdSmithers" <spirosdarlotts@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1162841098.372581.168850@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>
>>> Keith will never be considered a gifted guitarist by anyone that is
>>> remotely
>> qualified to chime in on the subject.
>
>
> I'm just absolutely astonished by these remarks. Richards is one of the
> top 5 guitarists in history, and few have created as memorable or
> lasting riffs. Rolling Stone (oh, go ahead and tell me why they suck so
> bad now, too), had him #2 or #3 in their all time guitarist list a few
> years back. Yeah, I know, who cares? All of that.
>
> But when I hear someone - not just McFarlane - trash Keith, it just
> makes me realize that this planet may not be worth saving.
>

I don't think you read my post very closely, if at all. I never trashed
Richards. I never said Richards wasn't a talented guitarist. What I meant
to say is that the most qualified opinions (i.e. very skillful guitarists)
would not say that he is gifted technically.

Scott

Date: 07 Nov 2006 09:39:41
From: Miss Anne Thrope
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

Just when I thought Kenny G. couldn't be any faggier...

Date: 08 Nov 2006 09:28:33
From: zumafan
Subject: Re: Golf Digest: No. 1 musical golfer

On Nov 6, 4:27 pm, "annika1980" <annika1...@aol.com > wrote:
> zumafan wrote:
>
> > My man Neil Young clocks in at #72 with an 18.6 index. Rock on Neil!
> > (and don't bother posting about how "technically inproficient" he is as
> > a singer and guitarist, cuz I don't care).

> Isn't he the guy who said it's better to hit worm-burners than to hit
> high fades?
> Or something like that.
>
> Then there was the song where he sang about "4 Down in Ohio."

(with apologies to csny)

Worm burners and mishit high fades
Where the fuck did my tee shot go?
Just lipped out another three footer
Four down in Ohio.

Gotta get down to it
Lay up or go for the green?
Can't afford another mistaaaaaake

My opponent's on in two shots
Skipped it over the lake
Should I hit a 3 iron or hybrid
When my ball's buried under the raaaaa-aake?

(Guitar solo - dah-dah-dah
dahdadadadadaaaaaaaa....dahdaladaladadaaaaaaaaaa
deeedle-lee dee dee dum dumble deedle dum
dah dah deedle ohhh)

Scotch whisky and big fat stogies
Where the fuck did my lighter go?
Just lipped out another three footer
Four down in Ohio

sorry......