Congrats Jim Furyk

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Date: 01 Oct 2006 16:19:15
From: multi
Subject: Congrats Jim Furyk

He's having a career year, but he showed his true character today,
calling a penalty on himself when he had no need to. This was not a
Bobby Jones incident, where he accidentally moved the ball, and had to
take the penalty to retain his integrity. It was just his judgment
that his completely legal drop gave him an unfair advantage. It cost
him a share of second place.

Good on ya, Jim.

Date: 01 Oct 2006 20:56:52
From: Fairway
Subject: Re: Congrats Jim Furyk

sfb wrote:
> What is this obsession with jumping on Vijay every time a penalty incident
> occurs? He sighed an incorrect score card something that happens often in
> professional tournament golf. Unlike the rest of the world that considers a
> tournament DQ as sufficient penalty, the Asian Tour adds on a suspension
> which blows the entire incident totally out of proportion to the actual
> offense.
>
A good question. And why jump on Monty? But I agree: congrats to Jim. F

Date: 02 Oct 2006 04:56:28
From: multi
Subject: Re: Congrats Jim Furyk

On 1 2006 20:56:52 -0700, "Fairway" <arminsson@yahoo.com > wrote:
>sfb wrote:
>> What is this obsession with jumping on Vijay every time a penalty incident
>> occurs? He sighed an incorrect score card something that happens often in
>> professional tournament golf. Unlike the rest of the world that considers a
>> tournament DQ as sufficient penalty, the Asian Tour adds on a suspension
>> which blows the entire incident totally out of proportion to the actual
>> offense.
>>
>A good question. And why jump on Monty? But I agree: congrats to Jim. F

I have no direct knowledge of what Vijay did, so I don't jump on him.
Monty is a different story. There is NO WAY he didn't know he
replaced his ball in a more favorable spot. Same with JJ and her
double hit.

Date: 01 Oct 2006 19:11:10
From: Big_Fan
Subject: Re: Congrats Jim Furyk

multi wrote:
> He's having a career year, but he showed his true character today,
> calling a penalty on himself when he had no need to. This was not a
> Bobby Jones incident, where he accidentally moved the ball, and had to
> take the penalty to retain his integrity. It was just his judgment
> that his completely legal drop gave him an unfair advantage. It cost
> him a share of second place.
>
> Good on ya, Jim.

I read about that but didn't see it. I meant to turn on TGC to see it,
but forgot. You have any details?

You think Vijay would've done this?

Date: 01 Oct 2006 23:50:26
From: sfb
Subject: Re: Congrats Jim Furyk

What is this obsession with jumping on Vijay every time a penalty incident
occurs? He sighed an incorrect score card something that happens often in
professional tournament golf. Unlike the rest of the world that considers a
tournament DQ as sufficient penalty, the Asian Tour adds on a suspension
which blows the entire incident totally out of proportion to the actual
offense.

"Big_Fan" <bigpufan@aol.com > wrote in message
news:1159755069.952184.104400@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> You think Vijay would've done this?
>

Date: 02 Oct 2006 07:25:01
From: Bobby Knight
Subject: Re: Congrats Jim Furyk

On Sun, 1 2006 23:50:26 -0400, "sfb" <sfb@spam.net > wrote:

>What is this obsession with jumping on Vijay every time a penalty incident
>occurs? He sighed an incorrect score card something that happens often in
>professional tournament golf. Unlike the rest of the world that considers a
>tournament DQ as sufficient penalty, the Asian Tour adds on a suspension
>which blows the entire incident totally out of proportion to the actual
>offense.

Nope, an altered card!!

This from the Sikh Times
http://www.sikhtimes.com/bios_112804a.html
" in 1985 he was accused of cheating and was banned from the Asian
tour for two years. What happened was that Singh was found guilty of
altering his scorecard at the Indonesian Open. He says that he did not
do it, that someone - not him - made a genuine and honest error.
Whatever the truth of the incident, and whoever was culpable, the card
was altered and Singh was banned".
___,
\o

Date: 02 Oct 2006 13:06:20
From: Colin Wilson
Subject: Re: Congrats Jim Furyk

Bobby Knight wrote:

> Nope, an altered card!!

He was about 20 that the time, and young and stupid. He was just
starting out, and probably hard up (evidenced by the way he used to
leave debts unpaid on the Australasian Tour).

Whatever, he did his penance teaching in some jungle mining town golf
course in Borneo. That should be the end of it.

--
Cheers
Colin Wilson
------------------------------------------------------------------
Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com
Barnbougle Dunes: http://publishing.kyneton.net.au/barnbougle
------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 02 Oct 2006 08:17:55
From: Bobby Knight
Subject: Re: Congrats Jim Furyk

On Mon, 02 2006 13:06:20 GMT, Colin Wilson <nowhere@nospam.com >
wrote:

>Bobby Knight wrote:
>
>> Nope, an altered card!!
>
>He was about 20 that the time, and young and stupid. He was just
>starting out, and probably hard up (evidenced by the way he used to
>leave debts unpaid on the Australasian Tour).
>
>Whatever, he did his penance teaching in some jungle mining town golf
>course in Borneo. That should be the end of it.

I was merely answering the question of why his rep is what it is.
Don't shoot the messenger.
___,
\o

Date: 02 Oct 2006 22:13:04
From: Colin Wilson
Subject: Re: Congrats Jim Furyk

Bobby Knight wrote:

> I was merely answering the question of why his rep is what it is.
> Don't shoot the messenger.

I didn't mean to shoot you.

--
Cheers
Colin Wilson
------------------------------------------------------------------
Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com
Barnbougle Dunes: http://publishing.kyneton.net.au/barnbougle
------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 02 Oct 2006 17:17:35
From: Bobby Knight
Subject: Re: Congrats Jim Furyk

On Mon, 02 2006 22:13:04 GMT, Colin Wilson <nowhere@nospam.com >
wrote:

>Bobby Knight wrote:
>
>> I was merely answering the question of why his rep is what it is.
>> Don't shoot the messenger.
>
>I didn't mean to shoot you.

Well, after thinking over your message, I have to say that one must
take responsibility for his misdeeds, and those in the public eye are
going to face that for a long time. He earned a reputation, and is
just going to have to live with it.
--
___,
\o

Date: 02 Oct 2006 08:41:57
From: sfb
Subject: Re: Congrats Jim Furyk

Where does altered card end and posting an incorrect score start? The logic
of erasing a score and entering a lower score makes you a cheat while
erasing a score and entering a higher score doesn't escapes me since the
higher score isn't a DQ and suspension.

The Sikh Times makes the point. It was an incorrect score hence the DQ and
the suspension. To claim the score was deliberately changed assumes facts
not in evidence.

"Bobby Knight" <bknight@conramp.net > wrote in message
news:lu02i2de0mrn3rscdk0bkpugvit0r99qt5@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 1 2006 23:50:26 -0400, "sfb" <sfb@spam.net> wrote:
>
>>What is this obsession with jumping on Vijay every time a penalty incident
>>occurs? He sighed an incorrect score card something that happens often in
>>professional tournament golf. Unlike the rest of the world that considers
>>a
>>tournament DQ as sufficient penalty, the Asian Tour adds on a suspension
>>which blows the entire incident totally out of proportion to the actual
>>offense.
>
> Nope, an altered card!!
>
> This from the Sikh Times
> http://www.sikhtimes.com/bios_112804a.html
> " in 1985 he was accused of cheating and was banned from the Asian
> tour for two years. What happened was that Singh was found guilty of
> altering his scorecard at the Indonesian Open. He says that he did not
> do it, that someone - not him - made a genuine and honest error.
> Whatever the truth of the incident, and whoever was culpable, the card
> was altered and Singh was banned".
> ___,
> \o
>

Date: 02 Oct 2006 08:15:40
From: Bobby Knight
Subject: Re: Congrats Jim Furyk

On Mon, 2 2006 08:41:57 -0400, "sfb" <sfb@spam.net > wrote:

>Where does altered card end and posting an incorrect score start? The logic
>of erasing a score and entering a lower score makes you a cheat while
>erasing a score and entering a higher score doesn't escapes me since the
>higher score isn't a DQ and suspension.
>
If he had signed a higher score it would've stood, and no suspension.
Who would care??? Why would you think that it was a higher score???
The alteration was made so he would make the cut in the Indonesian
Open in 1985.

>The Sikh Times makes the point. It was an incorrect score hence the DQ and
>the suspension. To claim the score was deliberately changed assumes facts
>not in evidence.
>
If the facts weren't in evidence, why was he suspended? Roberto de
Vicenzo signed an incorrect scorecard and lost a tournament, but
wasn't suspended from play for two years. VJ's score was changed.
Then he whined and said that someone else did it!!!

That's why he has the reputation. Period.
___,
\o

Date: 01 Oct 2006 20:43:08
From: multi
Subject: Re: Congrats Jim Furyk

On 1 2006 19:11:10 -0700, "Big_Fan" <bigpufan@aol.com > wrote:

>
>multi wrote:
>> He's having a career year, but he showed his true character today,
>> calling a penalty on himself when he had no need to. This was not a
>> Bobby Jones incident, where he accidentally moved the ball, and had to
>> take the penalty to retain his integrity. It was just his judgment
>> that his completely legal drop gave him an unfair advantage. It cost
>> him a share of second place.
>>
>> Good on ya, Jim.
>
>I read about that but didn't see it. I meant to turn on TGC to see it,
>but forgot. You have any details?

According to the network coverage, Jim hit his approach on 6? into
some extremely thick rough. Lots of people were looking for it, but
nobody could find it until a competitor, I think Poulter, accidentally
stepped on it. Since it moved when Ian stepped on it, Jim got a free
drop, and it landed in a good lie. Jim said that there was no way he
would have had a shot without the drop, so he took an unplayable.

>You think Vijay would've done this?

Actually, I was wishing Monty had been in his group.

Date: 01 Oct 2006 23:04:21
From: A Brick in the Wall
Subject: Re: Congrats Jim Furyk

"Big_Fan" <bigpufan@aol.com > wrote in message
news:1159755069.952184.104400@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> multi wrote:
>> He's having a career year, but he showed his true character today,
>> calling a penalty on himself when he had no need to. This was not a
>> Bobby Jones incident, where he accidentally moved the ball, and had to
>> take the penalty to retain his integrity. It was just his judgment
>> that his completely legal drop gave him an unfair advantage. It cost
>> him a share of second place.
>>
>> Good on ya, Jim.
>
> I read about that but didn't see it. I meant to turn on TGC to see it,
> but forgot. You have any details?
>
> You think Vijay would've done this?
>

or Monty?

Date: 02 Oct 2006 10:25:39
From: 3putt
Subject: Re: Congrats Jim Furyk

"A Brick in the Wall" <NoSpam@NoThanks.com > wrote in message
news:45204f70$1_3@newsfeed.slurp.net...
>
> "Big_Fan" <bigpufan@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1159755069.952184.104400@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> multi wrote:
>>> He's having a career year, but he showed his true character today,
>>> calling a penalty on himself when he had no need to. This was not a
>>> Bobby Jones incident, where he accidentally moved the ball, and had to
>>> take the penalty to retain his integrity. It was just his judgment
>>> that his completely legal drop gave him an unfair advantage. It cost
>>> him a share of second place.
>>>
>>> Good on ya, Jim.

What do you mean "when he had no need to"? Was it a penalty or not? Had he
not called it on himself, would he be cheating? Did the cameras see it?

Date: 02 Oct 2006 19:05:37
From: rich
Subject: Re: Congrats Jim Furyk

"3putt" <golf24/7@golfing.com > wrote in message
news:DO5Ug.28959$Qg.17258@southeast.rr.com...

> What do you mean "when he had no need to"? Was it a penalty or not? Had
> he not called it on himself, would he be cheating? Did the cameras see
> it?

He was entitled to a free drop but he decided, in equity, that he should
take an unplayable with its penalty shot instead.

I admire him for doing it. But personally I think he was wrong. It would
have been a good break but good breaks are there to counterbalance bad
breaks.

Rich

Date:
From:
Subject:

Date: 01 Oct 2006 23:17:09
From: pete z
Subject: Re: Congrats Jim Furyk

Big_Fan wrote:
> multi wrote:
> > He's having a career year, but he showed his true character today,
> > calling a penalty on himself when he had no need to. This was not a
> > Bobby Jones incident, where he accidentally moved the ball, and had to
> > take the penalty to retain his integrity. It was just his judgment
> > that his completely legal drop gave him an unfair advantage. It cost
> > him a share of second place.
> >
> > Good on ya, Jim.
>
> I read about that but didn't see it. I meant to turn on TGC to see it,
> but forgot. You have any details?
>
> You think Vijay would've done this?

Or Sergio? That cost Furyk about 200k. Remember Sergio decaring line
of sight relief,
in the PGA, I think, because he said he planned to hit a draw, and the
TV tower was in his way. Then he hit a completely different shot. Bobby
was probably rolling over several times.

Date: 02 Oct 2006 17:33:36
From: pete z
Subject: Re: Congrats Jim Furyk

Colin Wilson wrote:
> Bobby Knight wrote:
>
> > There's no trial, nor retrial, just the matter of reputation. If you
> > caught one of your students cheating in the first week of the
> > semester, I guess that would never cross your mind again during the
> > rest of the term. I just don't believe that.
> >
> > If his/her name came up years later, that could well be the memory
> > that you have of him/her. The trial of Vijay is over, but the memory
> > of the verdict lingers on.
>
> We all do things we regret in our early adulthood (including some due to
> alcohol). Sportsmen are particularly prone to doing stupid things when
> they're young ... maybe it's too much testosterone and not enough
> experience.
>
> Just wondering how someone like Andre Agassi can go from absolute brat
> to "darling" over his career, while Vijay gets continually pilloried for
> one ancient misdemeanour? You don't even have to like him.
>
> Heck, even John McEnroe seems to have been forgiven.
>
> --
> Cheers
> Colin Wilson
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com
> Barnbougle Dunes: http://publishing.kyneton.net.au/barnbougle
> ------------------------------------------------------------------

Not to mention fellow golfer O. J.

Date: 02 Oct 2006 15:20:49
From: Fairway
Subject: Re: Congrats Jim Furyk

EdSmithers wrote:
> It was a scorecard, you
> know, on the Asian Tour, right? It revealed his character that DAY, and
> he's paid for it over and over again.
>
He tampered with the scorecard - his character that DAY and every DAY
thereafter. You don=B4t change character like you change clothes.

> I hope that the folks who throw stones here in RSG don't have a mistake
> in their background that others can bring up forever.
>
Lots of mistakes, thousands of them, but not in golf or any sport. Fair
play it shall be. F

Date: 03 Oct 2006 04:29:36
From: bill-o
Subject: Re: Congrats Jim Furyk

On 2--2006, "Fairway" <arminsson@yahoo.com > wrote:

> He tampered with the scorecard - his character that DAY and every DAY
> thereafter. You don�t change character like you change clothes.

No but it does develop, character is not poured concrete.

--
bill-o

A "gimme" can best be defined as an agreement between
two golfers neither of whom can putt very well.

Date: 03 Oct 2006 11:56:54
From: JJK
Subject: Re: Congrats Jim Furyk

"Fairway" wrote:
> > He tampered with the scorecard - his character that DAY and every DAY
> > thereafter. You don�t change character like you change clothes.

"bill-o" wrote
> No but it does develop, character is not poured concrete.

Apparently, you've never read any of Larry Whittaker's posts.

Date: 04 Oct 2006 04:54:14
From: bill-o
Subject: Re: Congrats Jim Furyk

On 3--2006, "JJK" <surpher@verizon.net > wrote:

> "Fairway" wrote:
> > > He tampered with the scorecard - his character that DAY and every DAY
> > > thereafter. You don�t change character like you change clothes.
>
> "bill-o" wrote
> > No but it does develop, character is not poured concrete.
>
>
> Apparently, you've never read any of Larry Whittaker's posts.

I'm trying to cut down! In any case in order for anything to develop, there
must be a positive amount.

--
bill-o

A "gimme" can best be defined as an agreement between
two golfers neither of whom can putt very well.

Date: 04 Oct 2006 12:07:54
From: JJK
Subject: Re: Congrats Jim Furyk

> > "Fairway" wrote:
> > > > He tampered with the scorecard - his character that DAY and every
DAY
> > > > thereafter. You don�t change character like you change clothes.

> > "bill-o" wrote
> > > No but it does develop, character is not poured concrete.

JJK wrote:
> > Apparently, you've never read any of Larry Whittaker's posts.

Bill-O wrote:
> I'm trying to cut down! In any case in order for anything to develop,
there
> must be a positive amount.

Whittaker's character is so much like poured concrete, there are rumors
suggesting that Hoffa's inside Larry.

Date: 02 Oct 2006 13:33:09
From: EdSmithers
Subject: Re: Congrats Jim Furyk

> You think Vijay would've done this?

As a retired college professor, I do believe that there are
consequences for actions, but I get so exhausted over time when anyone
continues to try and retry folks for mistakes, bad behavior, etc. The
Vijay thing - and I don't mean this thread, I mean every thread when it
comes up - has been beaten to death, murdered. It was a scorecard, you
know, on the Asian Tour, right? It revealed his character that DAY, and
he's paid for it over and over again.

I hope that the folks who throw stones here in RSG don't have a mistake
in their background that others can bring up forever.

I cut myself a break for indiscretions of my own choosing as a young
man, and I do the same for others around me. It's not so hard, and in
many ways, your choices really have nothing to do with me, and Vijay's
actions past or present REALLY have nothing to do with me...or you, for
that matter.

Ed

Date: 02 Oct 2006 21:14:37
From: Bobby Knight
Subject: Re: Congrats Jim Furyk

On 2 2006 13:33:09 -0700, "EdSmithers" <spirosdarlotts@yahoo.com >
wrote:

>
>> You think Vijay would've done this?
>
>
>As a retired college professor, I do believe that there are
>consequences for actions, but I get so exhausted over time when anyone
>continues to try and retry folks for mistakes, bad behavior, etc. The
>Vijay thing - and I don't mean this thread, I mean every thread when it
>comes up - has been beaten to death, murdered. It was a scorecard, you
>know, on the Asian Tour, right? It revealed his character that DAY, and
>he's paid for it over and over again.
>
>I hope that the folks who throw stones here in RSG don't have a mistake
>in their background that others can bring up forever.
>
>I cut myself a break for indiscretions of my own choosing as a young
>man, and I do the same for others around me. It's not so hard, and in
>many ways, your choices really have nothing to do with me, and Vijay's
>actions past or present REALLY have nothing to do with me...or you, for
>that matter.
>
>Ed

There's no trial, nor retrial, just the matter of reputation. If you
caught one of your students cheating in the first week of the
semester, I guess that would never cross your mind again during the
rest of the term. I just don't believe that.

If his/her name came up years later, that could well be the memory
that you have of him/her. The trial of Vijay is over, but the memory
of the verdict lingers on.
--
___,
\o

Date: 02 Oct 2006 22:12:41
From: Colin Wilson
Subject: Re: Congrats Jim Furyk

Bobby Knight wrote:

> There's no trial, nor retrial, just the matter of reputation. If you
> caught one of your students cheating in the first week of the
> semester, I guess that would never cross your mind again during the
> rest of the term. I just don't believe that.
>
> If his/her name came up years later, that could well be the memory
> that you have of him/her. The trial of Vijay is over, but the memory
> of the verdict lingers on.

We all do things we regret in our early adulthood (including some due to
alcohol). Sportsmen are particularly prone to doing stupid things when
they're young ... maybe it's too much testosterone and not enough
experience.

Just wondering how someone like Andre Agassi can go from absolute brat
to "darling" over his career, while Vijay gets continually pilloried for
one ancient misdemeanour? You don't even have to like him.

Heck, even John McEnroe seems to have been forgiven.

--
Cheers
Colin Wilson
------------------------------------------------------------------
Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com
Barnbougle Dunes: http://publishing.kyneton.net.au/barnbougle
------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 02 Oct 2006 19:55:40
From: Frank Ketchum
Subject: Re: Congrats Jim Furyk

"multi" <multi@asm.org > wrote in message
news:v6j0i2tptt5icca06np3bndh9r81o0jeka@4ax.com...

> It was just his judgment
> that his completely legal drop gave him an unfair advantage. It cost
> him a share of second place.

Good for Jim. I am happy he is having such a good year.

However, can we completely rule out the possibility that he called the
penalty because he was afraid if he didn't, it might get noticed by some
viewer in tv land and then he would have to deal with bad publicity?
Certainly, for golfers at that level, public perception is worth so much
more than a stroke and a 2nd vs 3rd place finish.

Date: 02 Oct 2006 10:52:59
From: pete z
Subject: Re: Congrats Jim Furyk

Dave Lee wrote:
> "greg" <greg@localhost.localdomain> wrote in message
> news:pan.2006.10.02.11.43.54.591979@localhost.localdomain...
> > On Sun, 01 2006 19:11:10 -0700, Big_Fan wrote:
> >
> >
> snip
>
> > Furyk got within five shots through five holes and was at 15 under when
> > his approach to the sixth buried in lush grass on the side of a hill. The
> > entire group searched for the ball, and it was located only because Ian
> > Poulter inadvertently stepped on it. By rule, Furyk had to drop the ball
> > in the same spot without penalty because of the outside interference.
> > Furyk then told rules official Mike Shea he was taking a one-stroke
> > penalty for an unplayable lie because he would not have been able to play
> > it had the group found the ball without Poulter stepping on it. He went
> > back to the fairway and got up-and-down for bogey. "I just felt like it
> > was definitely taking advantage of the situation,'' Furyk said. "Ian did
> > me a favor by finding the ball. Stepping on it probably was the only way
> > we were going to get it. All that went through my mind, and I felt like I
> > did the right thing.''
>
> It is hard to view this as anything other than honorable, but it seemed just
> plain misdirected to me. Golf is, among other things, good breaks and bad
> breaks. I suppose this would be viewed as a good break.
>
> If everyone were to follow Jim's leadership here, just exactly what would
> they do? Stuff like that happens all the time. You get good lies in trampled
> down rough, the ball bounces off a concession stand into a playable
> position, There are all kinds of obstructions and the balls gets moved the
> length of a football field, etc. When would you 'take an unplayable vs.
> not?'
>
> What Jim did seems very honorable, but also very 'ungolflike' to me.
>
> dave

Maybe for you, but not for some of us.

Date: 03 Oct 2006 08:31:53
From: Fairway
Subject: Re: Congrats Jim Furyk

Fairway wrote:
> The following (as I remember it) is attributed to the grand old man of
> golf, Stapleford: if there=B4s a flaw in a man=B4s character, a round of
> golf will bring it out. F
I=B4ve been unable to find Stapleford on google, but "grand old man" is
probably not the right description - a friend told me he committed
suicide while quite young - so "great man of golf" would be better! F

Date: 03 Oct 2006 18:10:11
From: Crispin Roche
Subject: Re: Congrats Jim Furyk

On 3 2006 08:31:53 -0700, "Fairway" <arminsson@yahoo.com > wrote:

>
>Fairway wrote:
>> The following (as I remember it) is attributed to the grand old man of
>> golf, Stapleford: if there�s a flaw in a man�s character, a round of
>> golf will bring it out. F
>I�ve been unable to find Stapleford on google, but "grand old man" is
>probably not the right description - a friend told me he committed
>suicide while quite young - so "great man of golf" would be better! F

That might be becasue you are using the wrong name. Dr Frank
StaBleford (born 1870 died 1959) inventor of the Stableford scoring
system first used in May 1932 at Wallasey GC (thats near Liverpool
btw).

Crispin Roche

Date: 03 Oct 2006 08:08:34
From: Fairway
Subject: Re: Congrats Jim Furyk

EdSmithers wrote:
> Sport is the only place, then, where you think we reveal our character?
> These thousands of mistakes you've made, are they things that people
> will associate with you forever, as stains on your character?

The following (as I remember it) is attributed to the grand old man of
golf, Stapleford: if there=B4s a flaw in a man=B4s character, a round of
golf will bring it out. F

Date: 03 Oct 2006 10:39:11
From: Bobby Knight
Subject: Re: Congrats Jim Furyk

On 3 2006 08:08:34 -0700, "Fairway" <arminsson@yahoo.com > wrote:

>
>EdSmithers wrote:
>> Sport is the only place, then, where you think we reveal our character?
>> These thousands of mistakes you've made, are they things that people
>> will associate with you forever, as stains on your character?
>
>The following (as I remember it) is attributed to the grand old man of
>golf, Stapleford: if there�s a flaw in a man�s character, a round of
>golf will bring it out. F

I don't know if the quote is attributable, but the name is Stableford.
___,
\o

Date: 03 Oct 2006 07:01:27
From: EdSmithers
Subject: Re: Congrats Jim Furyk

bill-o wrote:

> No but it does develop, character is not poured concrete.

I think this is such a true statement, I can't help but doing the
verboten "me, too" thing. I always worry about the steadfastness of
belief that some people seem to have. Forgive me, but as an old guy, I
actually see it more in my younger pals, the ones in their 30s and 40s.
Going against the old stereotype, most of the people I know in my age
range 60-80, have experienced enough tribulation in the world to
recognize that holding absolute beliefs is like trying to hold a
feather in a windstorm.

Bill-O's comment about character is what I wanted to say earlier, but
which I could not quite find the words for.

Ed

Date: 03 Oct 2006 06:47:39
From: EdSmithers
Subject: Re: Congrats Jim Furyk

Fairway wrote:

> Lots of mistakes, thousands of them, but not in golf or any sport. Fair
> play it shall be. F

Sport is the only place, then, where you think we reveal our character?
These thousands of mistakes you've made, are they things that people
will associate with you forever, as stains on your character? Do your
pals cut you a break, let you serve your time and then set you free? I
hope so.

It'd be an awful world otherwise.

Ed

Date: 03 Oct 2006 05:33:05
From: EdSmithers
Subject: Re: Congrats Jim Furyk

Bobby Knight wrote:
> If you
> caught one of your students cheating in the first week of the
> semester, I guess that would never cross your mind again during the
> rest of the term. I just don't believe that.

No, but when he was 30 I might. I'm not saying that bad actions don't
have consequences, but if we were all to hold each other up to lifetime
trials, none of us would ever be free of our mistakes. You wouldn't. I
wouldn't.

For mistakes and bad actions you've made, do the people in your world
focus on those to this day?

Ed

Date: 03 Oct 2006 07:57:10
From: Bobby Knight
Subject: Re: Congrats Jim Furyk

On 3 2006 05:33:05 -0700, "EdSmithers" <spirosdarlotts@yahoo.com >
wrote:

>
>Bobby Knight wrote:
>> If you
>> caught one of your students cheating in the first week of the
>> semester, I guess that would never cross your mind again during the
>> rest of the term. I just don't believe that.
>
>No, but when he was 30 I might. I'm not saying that bad actions don't
>have consequences, but if we were all to hold each other up to lifetime
>trials, none of us would ever be free of our mistakes. You wouldn't. I
>wouldn't.
>
>For mistakes and bad actions you've made, do the people in your world
>focus on those to this day?
>
>Ed
I haven't made one that ranks with cheating to make a cut in a pro
tournament I guess.
___,
\o

Date: 03 Oct 2006 16:51:20
From: annika1980
Subject: Re: Congrats Jim Furyk

Date: 03 Oct 2006 16:41:16
From: Fairway
Subject: Re: Congrats Jim Furyk

Crispin Roche wrote:
> >I=B4ve been unable to find Stapleford on google, but "grand old man" is
> >probably not the right description - a friend told me he committed
> >suicide while quite young - so "great man of golf" would be better! F

> That might be becasue you are using the wrong name. Dr Frank
> StaBleford (born 1870 died 1959) inventor of the Stableford scoring
> system first used in May 1932 at Wallasey GC (thats near Liverpool
> btw).
Thanks, Crispin. I actually posted a correction but it hasn=B4t
appeared. Obviously he didn=B4t die at an early age. Good for him. But
this is from a BBC programme (History News Network): "Why had the
stiff-upper-lipped Dr Frank Stableford, inventor of the world-famous
golf scoring system that bears his name, committed suicide?". It=B4s
posed as a question with no answer on the web. I was told that he was
losing his eyesight, and when he was unable to play golf and billiards
he decided that enough was enough. I always found this story very
intriguing. One cannot but wonder: what would I do...... F