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Main
Date: 25 Aug 2006 08:31:07
From: warren montgomery
Subject: 10 ways for courses to improve.
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Now that the last major is over I'll turn my attention back to playing. Its
often the little things that make the difference between a fun day on the
course and a lot of frustration. Here are some things I think course could
do -- most of them not costing the course a cent -- that would make it more
fun:
1) Turn off the sprinklers -- I don't know who decided that grass should be
lush and green in a drought in august but I'm guessing it was non-playing
country club members more concerned about looks than playing. Brown is
beautiful -- I used to look forward to August because things would dry out a
bit, fairways would run, and you could play bump and run around the greens.
Now, more often than not you hit fairways that could double as swamps.
Aside from playing problems, that extra water contributes to high humidity
and disease. Water enough to keep the grass healthy, but if there's
standing water and mud that's too much.
2) Make sure the distances are right. Lots of courses seem to exaggerate
their distances and many seem to routinely set the tee markers in the wrong
place. They may think that by playing to the egos of folks who think they
can hit 300 yard drives they will be more popular, but real golfers know
how long they hit and aren't real happy at flying a green by 20 yards
because the marker is wrong.
3) Don't have more tees than tee box positions. Lots of courses have
crammed in extra sets of tees -- senior tees, junior tees. "tiger" tees,
etc. The trouble with many is that without new tee boxes for them they wind
up pushing the normal tees forward or back. I play one course where the
"red" and "white" tees which everyone plays are always crammed into the back
of the tee box and beat up because they stuck junior tees on the front and
nobody uses them. The course plays a couple of hundred yards longer than
rated because the markers are always behind the rated distances.
4) Next time you redo your cards get an accurate map. In an era where you
can download air photos from just about anywhere off the internet there's no
excuse for maps on the cards and the hole markers that are way out of date,
badly drawn, and confusing. Again I've seen maps that misplace the holes so
badly that that people have trouble finding the next tee, and others that
show holes before the last 2 redesigns and don't show the bunkers and ponds
added. One course I play just redid their cards and the new ones look very
nice -- but they still have the same bad hand drawn map that was done when
the course was put in 15 years ago!
5) Don't assume everyone is in carts when you locate the markers, benches,
ball washers and other amenities. People walking avoid cart paths becaue
they beat up your shoes. On the course I play a league on, which is very
walkable and has a lot of walking play, I can play a whole round without
finding a bench or a ballwasher -- because they stuck them somewhere at the
back of the tees where the cart path goes. Many courses put their hole
markers in a position where you can't read them except from the cart path.
If you put the sign on the opposite side of the path facing the tee, not
only do you make it easier for people walking, but anyone in a cart who gets
to the tee and wants to look at the hole map on the sign to figure out where
to aim will find it better too.
6) Give your maintenance staff hard hats and make them wear them. I'd
never make it in a competition with a gallery. I can't hit a shot into an
area where there are people standing. Even if you wait for the maintenance
crew to get out of the way, you are occasionally going to hit some bad
shots, and that guy on the mower is never going to hear you yell Fore (even
if he knew what it meant) because of the mower noise and ear protection or
iPod in his ears.
7) For any maintenance activity that can't stay ahead of the first group
off the tee, send them in the opposite direction of play. That way each
group encounters them only once. I've played entire 9's waiting for the
same guys doing the same thing on every hole -- not much fun.
8) Don't let anyone off the 10th tee unless you are very sure they will
stay ahead of groups making the turn. That means the 9th hole should be
open when they go off, and the group has to be small enough and good enough
to keep up. Lots of courses seem to send rank beginners off the back tee
where they get run down by groups making the turn -- no fun for either.
Others will cram in a foursome every time there's a gap.
9) Teach your marshals to do something useful. On most courses if there
are marshals all they do is zoom around on the carts and appologise that
they can't do anything about the hackers in front of you. Those guys can be
useful in a couple of places -- by spotting where shots go on holes where
players often lose them, and by monitoring play on slow par 3's and forcing
the group on the green to waive the next group up if it's going to help.
10) -- No 5somes, especially if they are in carts! Okay, there are
circumstances where 5 people can keep up, but maybe this is another thing
for the marshals to do and if a 5some falls behind break them up into 3 and
2. At least one place I play has a policy of allowing 5 people to play in
carts -- I swear they play slower as a result, because most people won't get
out of the cart until it's already their turn to play. Waiting for 5 people
to get up, select a club, get ready to hit, then holster the club and get
back in before driving on to the next ball is a recipe for a death march.
--
Warren Montgomery (wamontgomery@att.net)
http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery
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Date: 25 Aug 2006 09:47:43
From: pete z
Subject: Re: 10 ways for courses to improve.
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muk wrote:
> >#4 You need a map to get around the course? Dogleg left, dogleg right.
> >There's the pond......
>
> i play lots of different courses. unlike some boring munies that have
> a basic layout, i have played some that are not. even guessing where
> the next tee is can be nuts. i agree with warren
>
> >
> >#6 Now this is a problem, and you need to talk to the course
> >superintendent. Golfers always have the right of way, and the mower guy
> >should move out of the way (and turn off the engine), especially if it is
> >Tuesday, and that's when they mow the roughs. Only so much equipment to do
> >the jobs that are needed to be done day in and day out.
> >
> >#7 No problem here. Our guys go out at 5:30 in the summer. In the winter,
> >the mowers have headlights. They have no problem staying ahead.
> >Unless.....you are a single and are racing around the course and have to
> >make the turn before the 1st group goes off on #10. Dang, that would annoy
> >me.
>
> i have encountered bad workers on a number of courses. on one, the guy
> moved intothe line of the green while we were hitting our approach
> shots. if i was a bigger guy and macho, i woulda punched his lights
> out. we had to scream at him and even then he would not switch off the
> engine once he had moved. too many courses send out their workers
> during regular hours. at least give me a break on the green fee if
> some dude has to cut grass around me on a saturday at 9AM.
>
> >
> >#10 Breaking a fivesome up into a 3some and a 2 some is a death march to
> >those behind them. Especially if you were dumb enough to have the 3some go
> >first. Then us old farts that are use to under 4 hour rounds are always
> >waiting for that 2some that is always waiting for that 3some to hit.
>
> Fivesomes are a heresy and should only be allowed in a Seymour Butts
> movie. Period. Thank God very few golf course here in Canada allow
> fivesomes.
What harm is there in having a fivesome on an empty course? At our
course most
players never tee offf after 6. Some nights, especially Mondays, the
entire front nine is
empty. Why play 3 and 2? The pro has never told us not to play as five.
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Date: 25 Aug 2006 17:16:34
From: muk
Subject: Re: 10 ways for courses to improve.
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>> Fivesomes are a heresy and should only be allowed in a Seymour Butts
>> movie. Period. Thank God very few golf course here in Canada allow
>> fivesomes.
>
>
>What harm is there in having a fivesome on an empty course? At our
>course most
>players never tee offf after 6. Some nights, especially Mondays, the
>entire front nine is
>empty. Why play 3 and 2? The pro has never told us not to play as five.
i don't care what they do on an empty course. as long as i am not on
it when they put fivesomes on it. warren did not mention an empty
course.
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Date: 25 Aug 2006 09:42:01
From: pete z
Subject: Re: 10 ways for courses to improve.
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ruud wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 08:31:07 -0500, "warren montgomery"
> <wamontgomery@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> >Now that the last major is over I'll turn my attention back to playing. Its
> >often the little things that make the difference between a fun day on the
> >course and a lot of frustration. Here are some things I think course could
> >do -- most of them not costing the course a cent -- that would make it more
> >fun:
>
> I'd add... don't assume that everyone playing the course is 75 years
> old. I know it's a really nice experience for a 75 year old dude to
> break 100, and I know he's got lots of disposable income, but that
> doesn't mean your whole corporate existence has to be about making 75
> year-olds happy. It's a golf course ffs. Some of us like playing from
> the back (blue) tees on a par 72 6000 yard (white) course. I know you
> like marketing the course as a 7000 yard course, and i know that the
> white tees you send them off are only 6000, and i know you're lying to
> them by telling them it's a 7000 yard course when the white tees are
> only 5500. But just because I'm not almost dead and I have some idea
> of what I'm doing doesn't mean I'm breaking one of the laws of the
> universe just because I had the hide to hit off the blues when 99% of
> your patrons today are playing off the whites because they're almost
> dead.
>
> Either you ban all human beings who can stand up straight from your
> course, or you tell these old fuckers that some real golfers might be
> playing today and they're playing the real golf course, and they're
> not deluding themselves they're playing off the back tees when they're
> only playing off the whites at 5500 yards.
>
> thanks for your patience.
So play the blue tees, or the gold, if you want. Why begrudge the
seniors playing shorter
tees? We have a senior outing every Thursday at our club, and play the
white tees,
about 6000 yards. About half of the 60 guys walk, average round 3:45.
Some of the guys are in their 80's. Being younger does not make you a
real golfer. I've played
through many twosomes of younger golfers who hit the ball long, while I
hit my little
230 yard drive down the middle, and put my second on the green, and
they are still
looking for their balls. Maybe if you ever grow up, you'll think
differently. One guarantee in life, we all get older, and no one gets
out alive. You must the apple of your parent's eye. Do you call them
old fuckers too?
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Date: 25 Aug 2006 21:16:46
From: ruud
Subject: Re: 10 ways for courses to improve.
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On 25 Aug 2006 09:42:01 -0700, "pete z" <pz0326@aol.com > wrote:
>So play the blue tees, or the gold, if you want. Why begrudge the
>seniors playing shorter
>tees? We have a senior outing every Thursday at our club, and play the
>white tees,
>about 6000 yards. About half of the 60 guys walk, average round 3:45.
>Some of the guys are in their 80's. Being younger does not make you a
>real golfer. I've played
>through many twosomes of younger golfers who hit the ball long, while I
>hit my little
>230 yard drive down the middle, and put my second on the green, and
>they are still
>looking for their balls. Maybe if you ever grow up, you'll think
>differently. One guarantee in life, we all get older, and no one gets
>out alive. You must the apple of your parent's eye. Do you call them
>old fuckers too?
We can't play the blue tees unless it's comp day. On comp day (Sat &
Wed) it's good, we get to play the back tees. Any other day of the
week they set the tees so far forward it's ridiculous and you're not
allowed to play the blues. Anyway, sorry, at least you're gonna get
old if you're not already. I'm not. Too much sun from golf and other
sports. I'm on the way out. The CT scans look like I swallowed half a
dozen golf balls. Any suggestions on how to lose these ones would be
appreciated.
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Date: 25 Aug 2006 23:36:44
From: muk
Subject: Re: 10 ways for courses to improve.
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> Anyway, sorry, at least you're gonna get
>old if you're not already. I'm not. Too much sun from golf and other
>sports. I'm on the way out. The CT scans look like I swallowed half a
>dozen golf balls. Any suggestions on how to lose these ones would be
>appreciated.
heya ruud,
am i reading this correctly? if i am, good luck man.
muk.
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Date: 25 Aug 2006 21:32:34
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: 10 ways for courses to improve.
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On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 21:16:46 GMT, ruud <no_email@hotmail.scum > wrote:
>Anyway, sorry, at least you're gonna get
>old if you're not already. I'm not.
The world is full of people who got old despite being not ready.
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Date: 25 Aug 2006 12:27:24
From: \R&B\
Subject: Re: 10 ways for courses to improve.
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One other item...although this one WILL cost the course some money...
Space the tee times about a minute farther apart.
You wouldn't think just one minute would make much difference, but over the
long haul, it will speed play immeasurably.
Oh, and enough already with the stupid 90-degree rule for carts. You
actually cause MORE wear and tear on the golf course by forcing carts back
to the cart path when all the player has to do is drive about 50 yards up
the fairway to hit his shot after his playing companion hits his. Not to
mention the fact that the cart's battery might actually last through the end
of the round if you shaved off about a quarter-mile of mileage from
late-afternoon rounds this way.
Randy
"warren montgomery" <wamontgomery@worldnet.att.net > wrote in message
news:GaSdnXrJo-4GZnPZnZ2dnUVZ_uqdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Now that the last major is over I'll turn my attention back to playing.
> Its often the little things that make the difference between a fun day on
> the course and a lot of frustration. Here are some things I think course
> could do -- most of them not costing the course a cent -- that would make
> it more fun:
>
> 1) Turn off the sprinklers -- I don't know who decided that grass should
> be lush and green in a drought in august but I'm guessing it was
> non-playing country club members more concerned about looks than playing.
> Brown is beautiful -- I used to look forward to August because things
> would dry out a bit, fairways would run, and you could play bump and run
> around the greens. Now, more often than not you hit fairways that could
> double as swamps. Aside from playing problems, that extra water
> contributes to high humidity and disease. Water enough to keep the grass
> healthy, but if there's standing water and mud that's too much.
>
> 2) Make sure the distances are right. Lots of courses seem to exaggerate
> their distances and many seem to routinely set the tee markers in the
> wrong place. They may think that by playing to the egos of folks who
> think they can hit 300 yard drives they will be more popular, but real
> golfers know how long they hit and aren't real happy at flying a green by
> 20 yards because the marker is wrong.
>
> 3) Don't have more tees than tee box positions. Lots of courses have
> crammed in extra sets of tees -- senior tees, junior tees. "tiger" tees,
> etc. The trouble with many is that without new tee boxes for them they
> wind up pushing the normal tees forward or back. I play one course where
> the "red" and "white" tees which everyone plays are always crammed into
> the back of the tee box and beat up because they stuck junior tees on the
> front and nobody uses them. The course plays a couple of hundred yards
> longer than rated because the markers are always behind the rated
> distances.
>
> 4) Next time you redo your cards get an accurate map. In an era where
> you can download air photos from just about anywhere off the internet
> there's no excuse for maps on the cards and the hole markers that are way
> out of date, badly drawn, and confusing. Again I've seen maps that
> misplace the holes so badly that that people have trouble finding the next
> tee, and others that show holes before the last 2 redesigns and don't show
> the bunkers and ponds added. One course I play just redid their cards and
> the new ones look very nice -- but they still have the same bad hand drawn
> map that was done when the course was put in 15 years ago!
>
> 5) Don't assume everyone is in carts when you locate the markers,
> benches, ball washers and other amenities. People walking avoid cart
> paths becaue they beat up your shoes. On the course I play a league on,
> which is very walkable and has a lot of walking play, I can play a whole
> round without finding a bench or a ballwasher -- because they stuck them
> somewhere at the back of the tees where the cart path goes. Many courses
> put their hole markers in a position where you can't read them except from
> the cart path. If you put the sign on the opposite side of the path facing
> the tee, not only do you make it easier for people walking, but anyone in
> a cart who gets to the tee and wants to look at the hole map on the sign
> to figure out where to aim will find it better too.
>
> 6) Give your maintenance staff hard hats and make them wear them. I'd
> never make it in a competition with a gallery. I can't hit a shot into an
> area where there are people standing. Even if you wait for the
> maintenance crew to get out of the way, you are occasionally going to hit
> some bad shots, and that guy on the mower is never going to hear you yell
> Fore (even if he knew what it meant) because of the mower noise and ear
> protection or iPod in his ears.
>
> 7) For any maintenance activity that can't stay ahead of the first group
> off the tee, send them in the opposite direction of play. That way each
> group encounters them only once. I've played entire 9's waiting for the
> same guys doing the same thing on every hole -- not much fun.
>
> 8) Don't let anyone off the 10th tee unless you are very sure they will
> stay ahead of groups making the turn. That means the 9th hole should be
> open when they go off, and the group has to be small enough and good
> enough to keep up. Lots of courses seem to send rank beginners off the
> back tee where they get run down by groups making the turn -- no fun for
> either. Others will cram in a foursome every time there's a gap.
>
> 9) Teach your marshals to do something useful. On most courses if there
> are marshals all they do is zoom around on the carts and appologise that
> they can't do anything about the hackers in front of you. Those guys can
> be useful in a couple of places -- by spotting where shots go on holes
> where players often lose them, and by monitoring play on slow par 3's and
> forcing the group on the green to waive the next group up if it's going to
> help.
>
> 10) -- No 5somes, especially if they are in carts! Okay, there are
> circumstances where 5 people can keep up, but maybe this is another thing
> for the marshals to do and if a 5some falls behind break them up into 3
> and 2. At least one place I play has a policy of allowing 5 people to
> play in carts -- I swear they play slower as a result, because most people
> won't get out of the cart until it's already their turn to play. Waiting
> for 5 people to get up, select a club, get ready to hit, then holster the
> club and get back in before driving on to the next ball is a recipe for a
> death march.
>
> --
> Warren Montgomery (wamontgomery@att.net)
> http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery
>
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Date: 25 Aug 2006 19:16:10
From:
Subject: Re: 10 ways for courses to improve.
|
Don't sweat the small stuff. Majoring in minors only upsets the apple
cart. Stay in the the real world for better golf.:--)
>mho
>v fe
>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0"d R i V e =A0L e $ s"
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Date: 25 Aug 2006 21:36:25
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: 10 ways for courses to improve.
|
On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 12:27:24 -0400, "\"R&B\""
<noneofyourbusiness@all.com > wrote:
>
>You wouldn't think just one minute would make much difference, but over the
>long haul, it will speed play immeasurably.
It's really amazing the difference.
>Oh, and enough already with the stupid 90-degree rule for carts. You
>actually cause MORE wear and tear on the golf course by forcing carts back
>to the cart path when all the player has to do is drive about 50 yards up
>the fairway to hit his shot after his playing companion hits his. Not to
>mention the fact that the cart's battery might actually last through the end
>of the round if you shaved off about a quarter-mile of mileage from
>late-afternoon rounds this way.
90 degree days are *slow*. If you have cart path only days or 90
degree days, you need to separate tee times more.
Also. Know how to schedule teams for shotgun starts. That means,
know where the slow spots are.
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Date: 25 Aug 2006 14:49:04
From: 3putt
Subject: Re: 10 ways for courses to improve.
|
"warren montgomery" <wamontgomery@worldnet.att.net > wrote in message
news:GaSdnXrJo-4GZnPZnZ2dnUVZ_uqdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Now that the last major is over I'll turn my attention back to playing.
> Its often the little things that make the difference between a fun day on
> the course and a lot of frustration. Here are some things I think course
> could do -- most of them not costing the course a cent -- that would make
> it more fun:
>
> 1) Turn off the sprinklers -- I don't know who decided that grass should
> be lush and green in a drought in august but I'm guessing it was
> non-playing country club members more concerned about looks than playing.
> Brown is beautiful -- I used to look forward to August because things
> would dry out a bit, fairways would run, and you could play bump and run
> around the greens. Now, more often than not you hit fairways that could
> double as swamps. Aside from playing problems, that extra water
> contributes to high humidity and disease. Water enough to keep the grass
> healthy, but if there's standing water and mud that's too much.
>
> 2) Make sure the distances are right. Lots of courses seem to exaggerate
> their distances and many seem to routinely set the tee markers in the
> wrong place. They may think that by playing to the egos of folks who
> think they can hit 300 yard drives they will be more popular, but real
> golfers know how long they hit and aren't real happy at flying a green by
> 20 yards because the marker is wrong.
>
> 3) Don't have more tees than tee box positions. Lots of courses have
> crammed in extra sets of tees -- senior tees, junior tees. "tiger" tees,
> etc. The trouble with many is that without new tee boxes for them they
> wind up pushing the normal tees forward or back. I play one course where
> the "red" and "white" tees which everyone plays are always crammed into
> the back of the tee box and beat up because they stuck junior tees on the
> front and nobody uses them. The course plays a couple of hundred yards
> longer than rated because the markers are always behind the rated
> distances.
>
> 4) Next time you redo your cards get an accurate map. In an era where
> you can download air photos from just about anywhere off the internet
> there's no excuse for maps on the cards and the hole markers that are way
> out of date, badly drawn, and confusing. Again I've seen maps that
> misplace the holes so badly that that people have trouble finding the next
> tee, and others that show holes before the last 2 redesigns and don't show
> the bunkers and ponds added. One course I play just redid their cards and
> the new ones look very nice -- but they still have the same bad hand drawn
> map that was done when the course was put in 15 years ago!
>
> 5) Don't assume everyone is in carts when you locate the markers,
> benches, ball washers and other amenities. People walking avoid cart
> paths becaue they beat up your shoes. On the course I play a league on,
> which is very walkable and has a lot of walking play, I can play a whole
> round without finding a bench or a ballwasher -- because they stuck them
> somewhere at the back of the tees where the cart path goes. Many courses
> put their hole markers in a position where you can't read them except from
> the cart path. If you put the sign on the opposite side of the path facing
> the tee, not only do you make it easier for people walking, but anyone in
> a cart who gets to the tee and wants to look at the hole map on the sign
> to figure out where to aim will find it better too.
>
> 6) Give your maintenance staff hard hats and make them wear them. I'd
> never make it in a competition with a gallery. I can't hit a shot into an
> area where there are people standing. Even if you wait for the
> maintenance crew to get out of the way, you are occasionally going to hit
> some bad shots, and that guy on the mower is never going to hear you yell
> Fore (even if he knew what it meant) because of the mower noise and ear
> protection or iPod in his ears.
>
> 7) For any maintenance activity that can't stay ahead of the first group
> off the tee, send them in the opposite direction of play. That way each
> group encounters them only once. I've played entire 9's waiting for the
> same guys doing the same thing on every hole -- not much fun.
>
> 8) Don't let anyone off the 10th tee unless you are very sure they will
> stay ahead of groups making the turn. That means the 9th hole should be
> open when they go off, and the group has to be small enough and good
> enough to keep up. Lots of courses seem to send rank beginners off the
> back tee where they get run down by groups making the turn -- no fun for
> either. Others will cram in a foursome every time there's a gap.
>
> 9) Teach your marshals to do something useful. On most courses if there
> are marshals all they do is zoom around on the carts and appologise that
> they can't do anything about the hackers in front of you. Those guys can
> be useful in a couple of places -- by spotting where shots go on holes
> where players often lose them, and by monitoring play on slow par 3's and
> forcing the group on the green to waive the next group up if it's going to
> help.
>
> 10) -- No 5somes, especially if they are in carts! Okay, there are
> circumstances where 5 people can keep up, but maybe this is another thing
> for the marshals to do and if a 5some falls behind break them up into 3
> and 2. At least one place I play has a policy of allowing 5 people to
> play in carts -- I swear they play slower as a result, because most people
> won't get out of the cart until it's already their turn to play. Waiting
> for 5 people to get up, select a club, get ready to hit, then holster the
> club and get back in before driving on to the next ball is a recipe for a
> death march.
>
> --
> Warren Montgomery (wamontgomery@att.net)
> http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery
Reply to #1: Sprinklers are a necessity, or we'd all be playing on dirt
tracks in the summer. And keeping the course in great shape through the
summer adds to it's condition in the winter. For those of you who live in
Minnesota and are now witnessing your first snowfall of the season,
sprinklers only help for de-icing.
#2: "Lots of courses"???? messing with the distances? If the mowers place
the tee markers inside the correct tee boxes, how much difference does that
make to the overall distance of the course? Are you implying they are
messing with the 150/100 yd markers, and you are flying the greens by 20
yds? You can't eyeball the difference between a 150yd par 3 and a 170 yd
par 3, when you've played the course frequently?
#3 Once again you exaggerate greatly. I like the idea of junior tees in
front of the ladies tees. Back tees are back tees, you can find them in the
back. How far forward can they push them? Besides you shouldn't be back
there playing off a 17.
#4 You need a map to get around the course? Dogleg left, dogleg right.
There's the pond......
#5 That's it. They need to hide the ballwashers and benches in the woods
for the walkers. And never mind that you have to walk so far from green to
the next tee. Hell, you now have those benches in the woods to rest on.
#6 Now this is a problem, and you need to talk to the course
superintendent. Golfers always have the right of way, and the mower guy
should move out of the way (and turn off the engine), especially if it is
Tuesday, and that's when they mow the roughs. Only so much equipment to do
the jobs that are needed to be done day in and day out.
#7 No problem here. Our guys go out at 5:30 in the summer. In the winter,
the mowers have headlights. They have no problem staying ahead.
Unless.....you are a single and are racing around the course and have to
make the turn before the 1st group goes off on #10. Dang, that would annoy
me.
#8 You keep saying "Lots of courses" Ever hear of double teeing? Last
tee time in the a.m. is usually 9:16, that gives the 1st group off the front
2 hours and 15 minutes to make the turn. Any earlier, then you shouldn't
have been the first off knowing you'd make the turn before the last group.
You'll only screw things up. But then, maybe your course doesn't have
enough golfers daily to warrant double teeing.
#9 "marshals"? as in plural? In your dreams. Where do you position them?
They are suppose to be circling the course to assist players. Most also
carry a clipboard with the group names and starting times. They keep track
of where you are on the course, and the approximate time your group should
be at a certain points.
#10 Breaking a fivesome up into a 3some and a 2 some is a death march to
those behind them. Especially if you were dumb enough to have the 3some go
first. Then us old farts that are use to under 4 hour rounds are always
waiting for that 2some that is always waiting for that 3some to hit.
f
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Date: 25 Aug 2006 15:35:27
From: muk
Subject: Re: 10 ways for courses to improve.
|
>#4 You need a map to get around the course? Dogleg left, dogleg right.
>There's the pond......
i play lots of different courses. unlike some boring munies that have
a basic layout, i have played some that are not. even guessing where
the next tee is can be nuts. i agree with warren
>
>#6 Now this is a problem, and you need to talk to the course
>superintendent. Golfers always have the right of way, and the mower guy
>should move out of the way (and turn off the engine), especially if it is
>Tuesday, and that's when they mow the roughs. Only so much equipment to do
>the jobs that are needed to be done day in and day out.
>
>#7 No problem here. Our guys go out at 5:30 in the summer. In the winter,
>the mowers have headlights. They have no problem staying ahead.
>Unless.....you are a single and are racing around the course and have to
>make the turn before the 1st group goes off on #10. Dang, that would annoy
>me.
i have encountered bad workers on a number of courses. on one, the guy
moved intothe line of the green while we were hitting our approach
shots. if i was a bigger guy and macho, i woulda punched his lights
out. we had to scream at him and even then he would not switch off the
engine once he had moved. too many courses send out their workers
during regular hours. at least give me a break on the green fee if
some dude has to cut grass around me on a saturday at 9AM.
>
>#10 Breaking a fivesome up into a 3some and a 2 some is a death march to
>those behind them. Especially if you were dumb enough to have the 3some go
>first. Then us old farts that are use to under 4 hour rounds are always
>waiting for that 2some that is always waiting for that 3some to hit.
Fivesomes are a heresy and should only be allowed in a Seymour Butts
movie. Period. Thank God very few golf course here in Canada allow
fivesomes.
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Date: 25 Aug 2006 14:11:23
From: ruud
Subject: Re: 10 ways for courses to improve.
|
On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 08:31:07 -0500, "warren montgomery"
<wamontgomery@worldnet.att.net > wrote:
>Now that the last major is over I'll turn my attention back to playing. Its
>often the little things that make the difference between a fun day on the
>course and a lot of frustration. Here are some things I think course could
>do -- most of them not costing the course a cent -- that would make it more
>fun:
I'd add... don't assume that everyone playing the course is 75 years
old. I know it's a really nice experience for a 75 year old dude to
break 100, and I know he's got lots of disposable income, but that
doesn't mean your whole corporate existence has to be about making 75
year-olds happy. It's a golf course ffs. Some of us like playing from
the back (blue) tees on a par 72 6000 yard (white) course. I know you
like marketing the course as a 7000 yard course, and i know that the
white tees you send them off are only 6000, and i know you're lying to
them by telling them it's a 7000 yard course when the white tees are
only 5500. But just because I'm not almost dead and I have some idea
of what I'm doing doesn't mean I'm breaking one of the laws of the
universe just because I had the hide to hit off the blues when 99% of
your patrons today are playing off the whites because they're almost
dead.
Either you ban all human beings who can stand up straight from your
course, or you tell these old fuckers that some real golfers might be
playing today and they're playing the real golf course, and they're
not deluding themselves they're playing off the back tees when they're
only playing off the whites at 5500 yards.
thanks for your patience.
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Date: 25 Aug 2006 21:44:39
From: Bob
Subject: Re: 10 ways for courses to improve.
|
"ruud" <no_email@hotmail.scum > wrote in message
news:q70ue2t83kfnj7jl1dse5r6ls5sbb2bnmf@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 08:31:07 -0500, "warren montgomery"
> <wamontgomery@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>>Now that the last major is over I'll turn my attention back to playing.
>>Its
>>often the little things that make the difference between a fun day on the
>>course and a lot of frustration. Here are some things I think course
>>could
>>do -- most of them not costing the course a cent -- that would make it
>>more
>>fun:
>
> I'd add... don't assume that everyone playing the course is 75 years
> old. I know it's a really nice experience for a 75 year old dude to
> break 100, and I know he's got lots of disposable income, but that
> doesn't mean your whole corporate existence has to be about making 75
> year-olds happy. It's a golf course ffs. Some of us like playing from
> the back (blue) tees on a par 72 6000 yard (white) course.
And, the corollary ... make the youngin's, that think that they need to play
from the tips to prove their manhood even though they just play once or
twice a year, play the forward tees ...
Bob
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Date: 25 Aug 2006 17:44:18
From: dsc
Subject: Re: 10 ways for courses to improve.
|
> >
> >#10 Breaking a fivesome up into a 3some and a 2 some is a death march to
> >those behind them. Especially if you were dumb enough to have the 3some go
> >first. Then us old farts that are use to under 4 hour rounds are always
> >waiting for that 2some that is always waiting for that 3some to hit.
>
> Fivesomes are a heresy and should only be allowed in a Seymour Butts
> movie. Period. Thank God very few golf course here in Canada allow
> fivesomes.
There's nothing inherently wrong with 5somes. I'd much rather play a
course loaded with 5 somes spaced appropriatly than a course crowded
with 4 somes spaced too close. We play 5 somtimes (usually weeknights),
we keep up pretty well and don't cause a problem. The last time we
played 5 we finished in just over 4 hours. We are a mix of walkers and
riders.
The worst is probably a course with a mix of everything from 1 to 4 in
a group.
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Date: 25 Aug 2006 17:05:05
From: pete z
Subject: Re: 10 ways for courses to improve.
|
ruud wrote:
> On 25 Aug 2006 09:42:01 -0700, "pete z" <pz0326@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >So play the blue tees, or the gold, if you want. Why begrudge the
> >seniors playing shorter
> >tees? We have a senior outing every Thursday at our club, and play the
> >white tees,
> >about 6000 yards. About half of the 60 guys walk, average round 3:45.
> >Some of the guys are in their 80's. Being younger does not make you a
> >real golfer. I've played
> >through many twosomes of younger golfers who hit the ball long, while I
> >hit my little
> >230 yard drive down the middle, and put my second on the green, and
> >they are still
> >looking for their balls. Maybe if you ever grow up, you'll think
> >differently. One guarantee in life, we all get older, and no one gets
> >out alive. You must the apple of your parent's eye. Do you call them
> >old fuckers too?
>
> We can't play the blue tees unless it's comp day. On comp day (Sat &
> Wed) it's good, we get to play the back tees. Any other day of the
> week they set the tees so far forward it's ridiculous and you're not
> allowed to play the blues. Anyway, sorry, at least you're gonna get
> old if you're not already. I'm not. Too much sun from golf and other
> sports. I'm on the way out. The CT scans look like I swallowed half a
> dozen golf balls. Any suggestions on how to lose these ones would be
> appreciated.
That's a bitch. Then I suggest you find a new course. At my club, you
can play any tees
you want to, except in a tournament. They go from 6900, gold to 6002,
white. One guy
was so used to playing the blue middle tees, that he teed off from the
blues in the
senior club championship, on the second hole, instead of the whites.
His wonderful playing partners said nothing until the last hole, and he
won by 4 strokes, and was
DQ'd
Good luck with your health.
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Date: 25 Aug 2006 16:47:31
From: pete z
Subject: Re: 10 ways for courses to improve.
|
Bobby Knight wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 23:15:25 GMT, "Pat Whelton"
> <pwhelton@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >"warren montgomery" <wamontgomery@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> >news:GaSdnXrJo-4GZnPZnZ2dnUVZ_uqdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> >> 10) -- No 5somes, especially if they are in carts!
> >
> >Hi Warren. I couldn't agree with you more. 5 somes screw up everyone
> >behind them. And they typically have their own cart and they are all over
> >the place. Ever seen a cart up next to the green? Ever see what damage
> >these things do to the course?
> >
> Another broad brush. Fivesomes, and any problem with them, are only
> if the golf club allows them to play as you describe. Our club allows
> fivesomes, and no one damages the course because of that.
>
> You didn't address slowness of play, but the only time that our
> course is really slow is during tournament play, when only foursomes
> are out.
>
> Problems on the golf course can be attributed to the players, not the
> number in a group.
> ___,
> \o
>
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| | |
Date: 25 Aug 2006 18:52:25
From: Bobby Knight
Subject: Re: 10 ways for courses to improve.
|
On 25 Aug 2006 16:47:31 -0700, "pete z" <pz0326@aol.com > wrote:
>
>Bobby Knight wrote:
>> Another broad brush. Fivesomes, and any problem with them, are only
>> if the golf club allows them to play as you describe. Our club allows
>> fivesomes, and no one damages the course because of that.
>>
>> You didn't address slowness of play, but the only time that our
>> course is really slow is during tournament play, when only foursomes
>> are out.
>>
>> Problems on the golf course can be attributed to the players, not the
>> number in a group.
>> bk
I agree with both of your last two posts wholeheartedly Pete. :-)
___,
\o
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Date: 25 Aug 2006 16:47:27
From: pete z
Subject: Re: 10 ways for courses to improve.
|
Bobby Knight wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 23:15:25 GMT, "Pat Whelton"
> <pwhelton@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >"warren montgomery" <wamontgomery@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> >news:GaSdnXrJo-4GZnPZnZ2dnUVZ_uqdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> >> 10) -- No 5somes, especially if they are in carts!
> >
> >Hi Warren. I couldn't agree with you more. 5 somes screw up everyone
> >behind them. And they typically have their own cart and they are all over
> >the place. Ever seen a cart up next to the green? Ever see what damage
> >these things do to the course?
> >
> Another broad brush. Fivesomes, and any problem with them, are only
> if the golf club allows them to play as you describe. Our club allows
> fivesomes, and no one damages the course because of that.
>
> You didn't address slowness of play, but the only time that our
> course is really slow is during tournament play, when only foursomes
> are out.
>
> Problems on the golf course can be attributed to the players, not the
> number in a group.
> ___,
> \o
>
|
| |
Date: 25 Aug 2006 23:15:25
From: Pat Whelton
Subject: Re: 10 ways for courses to improve.
|
"warren montgomery" <wamontgomery@worldnet.att.net > wrote in message
news:GaSdnXrJo-4GZnPZnZ2dnUVZ_uqdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> 10) -- No 5somes, especially if they are in carts!
Hi Warren. I couldn't agree with you more. 5 somes screw up everyone
behind them. And they typically have their own cart and they are all over
the place. Ever seen a cart up next to the green? Ever see what damage
these things do to the course?
|
| | |
Date: 25 Aug 2006 18:21:50
From: Bobby Knight
Subject: Re: 10 ways for courses to improve.
|
On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 23:15:25 GMT, "Pat Whelton"
<pwhelton@earthlinkNOSPAM.net > wrote:
>
>"warren montgomery" <wamontgomery@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
>news:GaSdnXrJo-4GZnPZnZ2dnUVZ_uqdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>> 10) -- No 5somes, especially if they are in carts!
>
>Hi Warren. I couldn't agree with you more. 5 somes screw up everyone
>behind them. And they typically have their own cart and they are all over
>the place. Ever seen a cart up next to the green? Ever see what damage
>these things do to the course?
>
Another broad brush. Fivesomes, and any problem with them, are only
if the golf club allows them to play as you describe. Our club allows
fivesomes, and no one damages the course because of that.
You didn't address slowness of play, but the only time that our
course is really slow is during tournament play, when only foursomes
are out.
Problems on the golf course can be attributed to the players, not the
number in a group.
___,
\o
|
| |
Date: 25 Aug 2006 21:31:48
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: 10 ways for courses to improve.
|
On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 08:31:07 -0500, "warren montgomery"
<wamontgomery@worldnet.att.net > wrote:
>
>10) -- No 5somes, especially if they are in carts! Okay, there are
>circumstances where 5 people can keep up, but maybe this is another thing
>for the marshals to do and if a 5some falls behind break them up into 3 and
>2. At least one place I play has a policy of allowing 5 people to play in
>carts -- I swear they play slower as a result, because most people won't get
>out of the cart until it's already their turn to play. Waiting for 5 people
>to get up, select a club, get ready to hit, then holster the club and get
>back in before driving on to the next ball is a recipe for a death march.
When you choose to accept the money for lucrative company outings with
non-players doing scrambles and prizes for longest putts - schedule
enough time for them to finish.
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Date: 26 Aug 2006 15:40:34
From: Bear
Subject: Re: 10 ways for courses to improve.
|
On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 08:31:07 -0500, "warren montgomery"
<wamontgomery@worldnet.att.net > wrote:
>Now that the last major is over I'll turn my attention back to playing. Its
>often the little things that make the difference between a fun day on the
>course and a lot of frustration. Here are some things I think course could
>do -- most of them not costing the course a cent -- that would make it more
>fun:
>
>1) Turn off the sprinklers -- I don't know who decided that grass should be
>lush and green in a drought in august but I'm guessing it was non-playing
>country club members more concerned about looks than playing. Brown is
>beautiful -- I used to look forward to August because things would dry out a
>bit, fairways would run, and you could play bump and run around the greens.
>Now, more often than not you hit fairways that could double as swamps.
>Aside from playing problems, that extra water contributes to high humidity
>and disease. Water enough to keep the grass healthy, but if there's
>standing water and mud that's too much.
Courses around here do a good job of controlling the amount of water
they use. Fairways are green but run and run while the rough is left
to brown out a bit.
<snip >
>
>9) Teach your marshals to do something useful. On most courses if there
>are marshals all they do is zoom around on the carts and appologise that
>they can't do anything about the hackers in front of you. Those guys can be
>useful in a couple of places -- by spotting where shots go on holes where
>players often lose them, and by monitoring play on slow par 3's and forcing
>the group on the green to waive the next group up if it's going to help.
Marshals...useful...now that is funny.
>
>10) -- No 5somes, especially if they are in carts! Okay, there are
>circumstances where 5 people can keep up, but maybe this is another thing
>for the marshals to do and if a 5some falls behind break them up into 3 and
>2. At least one place I play has a policy of allowing 5 people to play in
>carts -- I swear they play slower as a result, because most people won't get
>out of the cart until it's already their turn to play. Waiting for 5 people
>to get up, select a club, get ready to hit, then holster the club and get
>back in before driving on to the next ball is a recipe for a death march.
No matter what some will say, 5somes and the dreaded 6 will not play
as fast as a 4. Just like 4 will be slower than 3, 3 will... you get
the idea. Yeah there can be fast 5 and 6somes just as you can have
fast 4somes and slooow ones, the problem is that the courses will not
increase the tee intervals to include the bigger group.
Last week while playing one of the locals we ran into a 6some on the
11th. We actually got to watch them on the 10th as we played the 9th
(parallel holes). They were tourists that had been playing in two
groups who decided to morph into a 6 and let the twosome that had been
part of one of their groups go ahead...lucky couple. Only time I have
used a cell phone on the course was on the 11th tee as we watched the
three couples move slower than glacial melt. Pro shop guy came out and
broke them up after the 12th (a short par 3). They weren't happy but
at least they moved at a better pace.
4 is a good number for a group and I don't see the need to screw with
it. If there are 5 of ya too flippin' bad.
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Date: 25 Aug 2006 22:41:30
From: pete z
Subject: Re: 10 ways for courses to improve.
|
Bobby Knight wrote:
> On 25 Aug 2006 16:47:31 -0700, "pete z" <pz0326@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Bobby Knight wrote:
>
> >> Another broad brush. Fivesomes, and any problem with them, are only
> >> if the golf club allows them to play as you describe. Our club allows
> >> fivesomes, and no one damages the course because of that.
> >>
> >> You didn't address slowness of play, but the only time that our
> >> course is really slow is during tournament play, when only foursomes
> >> are out.
> >>
> >> Problems on the golf course can be attributed to the players, not the
> >> number in a group.
>
> >> bk
>
> I agree with both of your last two posts wholeheartedly Pete. :-)
> ___,
> \o
>
|
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Date: 26 Aug 2006 23:36:49
From: Miss Anne Thrope
Subject: Re: 10 ways for courses to improve.
|
11) Padlock the gates.
|
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Date: 26 Aug 2006 16:15:50
From: ruud
Subject: Re: 10 ways for courses to improve.
|
muk wrote:
> > Anyway, sorry, at least you're gonna get
> >old if you're not already. I'm not. Too much sun from golf and other
> >sports. I'm on the way out. The CT scans look like I swallowed half a
> >dozen golf balls. Any suggestions on how to lose these ones would be
> >appreciated.
>
> heya ruud,
>
> am i reading this correctly? if i am, good luck man.
Yeah, you are. Thanks.
>
> muk.
|
| |
Date: 26 Aug 2006 16:13:43
From: ruud
Subject: Re: 10 ways for courses to improve.
|
pete z wrote:
> That's a bitch. Then I suggest you find a new course. At my club, you
> can play any tees
> you want to, except in a tournament. They go from 6900, gold to 6002,
> white. One guy
> was so used to playing the blue middle tees, that he teed off from the
> blues in the
> senior club championship, on the second hole, instead of the whites.
> His wonderful playing partners said nothing until the last hole, and he
> won by 4 strokes, and was
> DQ'd
I think it's something to do with 1) protecting the tees from too much
damage, especially in winter; and 2) they like to use the back tees for
club tournaments and monthly medals, that sort of thing. It's like a
whole new course from the back tees when you're used to playing off the
back of the yellows or the whites. They keep the back tees for when the
event matters.
> Good luck with your health.
Thanks.
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|
