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Main
Date: 24 Feb 2007 00:18:26
From: Eric Lindholm
Subject: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
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I took up the game about six months ago, and on a reasonably good day I can
average double bogey on our local course of par-3's and 4's. So I'm bad,
but not blindingly incompetent, as beginners go.
I'm starting to feel a lot of pressure about my playing speed. In
particular, one guy that I plays with tells me, a couple of times each
round, that I am too slow. There are lots of ways in which I can benefit
from a bit more time than someone who is more experienced:
1. Having a few more practice swings before each shot, since my swing is
still nowhere near consistent. (Yes, I also put in time on the driving
range.)
2. Pacing off pitches of 50-100 yards, since my eye isn't good for judging
the distance.
3. Looking at putts from both sides of the green, since I'm not adept at
reading breaks.
4. In some cases, simply finding my ball, since I hit more than my share of
errant shots.
What doesn't help is that our local course schedules tee times only eight
minutes apart, so it tends to be completely jammed up during peak periods.
I did some reading online, including on the USGA site, and the general
message seems to be that everyone should play as quickly as they can,
treating all time "on the clock" as a supreme inconvenience to the other
players in the group and on the hole behind. More than one source says that
the playing speed of pros on television should be ignored, because they have
a lot of money at stake and so are entitled to be more thoughtful.
I don't have professional aspirations, obviously, but how soon in one's
development as a golfer is one entitled to think about what he's doing? I
tried "speed golf" the last time out and could sort of do it, after taking
the first few holes to adjust, but it certainly wasn't fun.
More generally, how can I be confident that I'm playing quickly enough?
Especially with the way our course is laid out, there will always be a big
backup at certain holes, so going by the position of the groups ahead or
behind isn't useful. What are some guidelines for beginners about how much
time is allowed to prepare for shots?
Thanks in advance.
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Date: 04 Mar 2007 20:04:32
From: Hunt
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
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I'm late in responding to this thread, so I have gathered several of your
comments along the way. With a bit of snippage, I'll add my comments to what
many others have said.
In article <mvLDh.104$Tg7.35@trnddc03 >, blumberg.NO.lindholm.SPAM@verizon.net
says...
[SNIP]
>1. Having a few more practice swings before each shot, since my swing is
>still nowhere near consistent. (Yes, I also put in time on the driving
>range.)
Loosen up on the range, before the round. Practice on the range between
rounds. Develop a routine of visualizing the shot that you want to hit, keep
your pace and rhythm and then just commit to hitting that shot. Most "practice
swings," just lead to negative thoughts, as does too much time over the shot.
>2. Pacing off pitches of 50-100 yards, since my eye isn't good for judging
>the distance.
This will not help, unless you can consistently hit your pitch, chip or flop
exactly a certain distance. Again, gather the approximate distance info (to
the cup, the apron, the landing area, etc.) before hand, and visualize doing
just that. Practice your pitches, chips, flops, etc. on the range. Lean how
much roll you get from each club used. Visualize what you want the ball to do,
and in time and practice, you should learn to trust your swing.
>3. Looking at putts from both sides of the green, since I'm not adept at
>reading breaks.
Only while others, farther away, are putting - be conscious of them and do not
stand in their line, or move too much, while they are putting. When it's your
turn, you should be ready to go, with little delay.
>4. In some cases, simply finding my ball, since I hit more than my share of
>errant shots.
Usually a bigger problem for beginners, as they do not watch their ball's
flight carefully, and then are too busy beating themselves up, to see exactly
where it lands. Get in the habit of watching all of your playing partner's
shots, and ask for their assistance in watching yours. k the spot where the
ball leaves the fairway - tree, house, cactus. If in doubt (any doubt), hit a
provisional. I use a bright yellow ball for my provisional, so I, and others,
know that I have not found my original ball. Do not hit a provisional with the
same # and k, as your original shot. Some folk "always" find their original
ball, but it seems that their "provisional" is lost! Hm-m, I always wonder
about that. Always have an extra ball(s) on your person. Do not put yourself
in the position of having to walk back to your cart, or bag, for another. You
have 5 min. to find your ball, before declaring it lost. Now, the rules state
that you are receive "stroke AND distance" as a penalty. Obviously, having to
go back to the spot, that you last hit from, and do it all again, does NOT
speed up play. Hitting a provisional requires little time. Do it, if there is
a doubt. Also, in order of play (especially from the tee), if you hit first,
and need to take a provisional, do it after the others have hit. Then, do it
with minimal fuss.
>What doesn't help is that our local course schedules tee times only eight
>minutes apart, so it tends to be completely jammed up during peak periods.
Normal for most courses.
[SNIP]
>More generally, how can I be confident that I'm playing quickly enough?
>Especially with the way our course is laid out, there will always be a big
>backup at certain holes, so going by the position of the groups ahead or
>behind isn't useful. What are some guidelines for beginners about how much
>time is allowed to prepare for shots?
It's about the group ahead. Stay a safe shot behind them. Hope that they do
the same with the group in front of them.
[SNIP]
>I'm in my 30s, so I walk. Usually, if my ball is ahead of my partners',
>I'll stay behind or off to the side of their shots rather than go
>immediately to my ball (assuming I already know where it is). But of course
>that means a walking delay after they hit, so I can change that too.
Walking is usually faster for play, than riding in a cart - big exception is
with our desert courses in AZ, where there can be great distances between
green and tee, including some elevation changes, as well. Use this time to do
several things: judge the path, that you want your next shot to take. Decide
what club(s) you are likely to be hitting. Gather distance data as you walk -
sprinkler heads, yardage kers, etc. Depending on where your ball is,
relative to the ball of those, who will be hitting first, you might be able to
safely walk closer to your ball - it all depends. Watch their shots closely,
and monitor their ball's flight, regardless of where you are standing. Be
cognizant of their line, and do not walk/stand near it, when they are hitting.
>As far as the lost ball thing goes, there are a few spots on the local
>course where the ball can dip behind a series of weirdly sloping hills but
>is still in bounds. On one hole in particular, any tee shot that's a bit
>left is going to take a bunch of weird rolls out of sight, and there's a
>fair amount of brush that can make searching slow. That's the main place I
>was thinking of, now that I think about it. Yes, I do use bright yellow
>balls and carry extras, but I won't hit a provisional when I'm confident my
>original is still in play.
Given that you have now learned a bit about your course, be prepared to play
those provisionals.
[SNIP]
>Well, I could always turn around and pay attention when they actually hit,
>but I know what you mean.
Yes, pay close attention. Besides keeping you safer, it will help, when you
can tell them where to locate their ball.
>
>> I think practice should be done on the range. You
>> will almost certainly play *better* as well as faster
>> if you just develop a quick routine and do it on every
>> shot.
Very good comment.
>The problem I'm having is that shots on the course are a lot more varied
>than they are on the range, particularly with respect to my stance. Most of
>the course (even what passes for the fairways -- heck, even the tee boxes)
>is pretty uneven, so I'm constantly trying to make adjustments for the
>different relationship between my feet and the ball. I probably should
>start taking small boards or pieces of carpet to the range and practice
>standing on them in different combinations.
Learn your course well. Draw a mental diagram of each hole. Play the course in
your mind, before you go to sleep. Imagine the shots that you normally hit,
where the ball ends up, and then the next shot. When on the range, play the
course. Hit driver, and watch where the ball flight takes it. Imagine where
you would have ended up on #1. What distance would then have to the green?
What club are you likely to hit from that distance? Hit that club and imagine
where the ball ended up. Say, you think that the combined two shots would have
left you 100 yards from the green, then hit your 100 yd. club. OK, so you
won't be putting on the range, but you can play the greens, on the practice
putting facility later. Make a mental note of how you did on you imaginary
round. Couple of really long putts - do some of those. Couple of putts from
the fringe, do those.
Find the slopes on the practice facility, and hit from them - uphill,
downhill, side-hill. I'm lucky to have a club with a really good practice
facility, slopes, fairway bunkers (with and without lips), side-hills both
ways. Sometimes one has to really look for similar facilities. Practice your
chipping, pitching, lobbing from all sorts of lies at the practice facility.
Hit out of the sand in as many situations, as you can simulate - downhill,
uphill, near the lip, short carry, long carry. Do it on the range, so you have
some clue, when faced with the real situation.
[SNIP]
Enough cannot be said about being ready to play. Get your yardage from any
source that you can. Even if you hike the course after play has completed and
write down yardage from landks, just like the pro's caddies do. Gather some
data on how far you hit your clubs on the range. Learn those yardages - know
that they will likely change, as you play more, and play better. When
preparing for your next shot, take extra clubs with you, especially if riding.
Short par-3's might play differently in the wind. Have the choices at hand,
and not back in your bag, or in the cart.
Learn the flow of the course and leave your bag (if walking) in the spot that
you will need it next, so you don't have to walk back for the bag. On my CC
course with is a traditional layout, as opposed to a links course), we usually
leave the bags on the next tee, as we walk to the green with putter, maybe a
chipping club, pitching club and maybe even a lob-wedge, unless we are
definitely on the green and will be putting, with no chance of running one off
and past the apron.
If riding, always park the cart at, or as near, as is possible, to the back of
the green, where you will most likely exit. Place any extra clubs on that same
path, back to the cart, and not at the front of the green, where you'll have
to walk BACK to get them.
Wait to fill in your score and put clubs back into your bag, until you are at
the next tee. Clear the green as quickly as is possible, but do not run. It's
really a drag to see a foursome swapping tales, cleaning clubs, recording and
arguing over scores, parked in FRONT of the green that you are waiting to hit
to. Move on quickly. Do your score/house-keeping, when you get to the next
tee.
Always know who is next to hit. Never be standing around, when you are up. Be
ready. If you play "ready-golf," there will be fewer conversations on who is
away, but be every mindful of who is hitting, or about to hit. In general,
ready-golf is the fastest way to handle it, but you have to pay attention.
Sometimes around the green, it can get slow, if all players are not "on," and
putting, so your group needs to make decisions there.
Never have to go back to your bag for anything, especially for another club,
or another ball. Have a few extra tees handy, when teeing off. Your partners
will appreciate that too.
Move quickly to your next shot, so you do not have to hurry your routine. If
you are ready to play, you should never be in a hurry, as that will insure
that your next shot is not a good one, and you'll waste your time finding a
ball, or having to take more strokes on the hole, than you need to. Be
"quick," but do not "hurry."
My CC course is a traditional setup of 6,500 yard par 71. The course rating is
72 and it has a slope rating of 130 on Bermuda grass, and with a 17.1 handicap
index, I can walk it, as a single in 3:15, including my provisionals. Normal
play is right at 4:00 with any traffic. My backyard course is a links, resort
track, with no walking, and it takes only 4:15 on most days. From the white
tees, it's only 6002 yards 68.4/128, but there are also 8 holes, where carts
are not allowed and quite a bit of hiking up and down hills to the ball from
the cart path. By taking appropriate clubs, one should never have to
backtrack. The interval time for foursomes is 8 min. and there should never be
a backup.
Being ready, and prepared is what will speed your game up. When you complete a
round, especially with better players, ask them what you could have done to
play more quickly. Do this at the 19th hole, and do not defend anything that
you may have done, should they point out the areas that need improvement. Most
better players have no problem playing with a lesser player, just not a slow
player.
Last, a couple of little books, that might help: "Golf Etiquette," Barbara
Puett & Jim Apfelbaum, "The Golfer's Code," David Gould and "Golf Rules Plain
& Simple," k Russell.
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Date: 28 Feb 2007 12:38:52
From: BigPurdueFan
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
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On Feb 28, 12:02 pm, Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net > wrote:
> On 28 Feb 2007 08:38:10 -0800, "BigPurdueFan" <bigpu...@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
> >3. Learn to read your putt from behind your ball only. 99% of the
> >time that will be enough, and you aren't good enough to gain much from
> >that 1%. If you're fourth to hit, then you can take some extra time
> >looking while others are putting. When it's your turn to putt, then a
> >quick glance is all you should need before you hit it.
> >4. Watch your ball. Watch your ball. Watch your ball. All the way
> >until it stops. Then use the surrounding area to make where it went.
> >Casual golfers (1-5 times/year) are the worst at this. They don't
> >watch their ball until it stops and then have a 75 yard search area to
> >look for it.
>
> Note: BigPurdueFan is describing how to not lose a ball. In
> putting, wait a full second before looking at where the ball is.
>
> Watching the ball is a skill that can be practiced - for instance
> while someone else is hitting.
Note: BigPurdueFan should proofread his posts before sending. When I
said "they don't watch their ball until it stops", I meant that they
should watch their balls until they stop or very close to it. Then,
k (not "make") where it stopped. It isn't that difficult to master
(finding your balls easily) and it should give you incentive to hit
fairways and greens so that it is easier. As Howard said, watching
others is good practice. Play with me and you'll get lots of practice,
especiall if I've got the shanks. (Am I allowed to use that word?)
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Date: 28 Feb 2007 08:38:10
From: BigPurdueFan
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
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On Feb 23, 7:18 pm, "Eric Lindholm"
<blumberg.NO.lindholm.S...@verizon.net > wrote:
> I took up the game about six months ago, and on a reasonably good day I can
> average double bogey on our local course of par-3's and 4's. So I'm bad,
> but not blindingly incompetent, as beginners go.
>
> I'm starting to feel a lot of pressure about my playing speed. In
> particular, one guy that I plays with tells me, a couple of times each
> round, that I am too slow. There are lots of ways in which I can benefit
> from a bit more time than someone who is more experienced:
>
> 1. Having a few more practice swings before each shot, since my swing is
> still nowhere near consistent. (Yes, I also put in time on the driving
> range.)
>
> 2. Pacing off pitches of 50-100 yards, since my eye isn't good for judging
> the distance.
>
> 3. Looking at putts from both sides of the green, since I'm not adept at
> reading breaks.
>
> 4. In some cases, simply finding my ball, since I hit more than my share of
> errant shots.
>
> What doesn't help is that our local course schedules tee times only eight
> minutes apart, so it tends to be completely jammed up during peak periods.
>
> I did some reading online, including on the USGA site, and the general
> message seems to be that everyone should play as quickly as they can,
> treating all time "on the clock" as a supreme inconvenience to the other
> players in the group and on the hole behind. More than one source says that
> the playing speed of pros on television should be ignored, because they have
> a lot of money at stake and so are entitled to be more thoughtful.
>
> I don't have professional aspirations, obviously, but how soon in one's
> development as a golfer is one entitled to think about what he's doing? I
> tried "speed golf" the last time out and could sort of do it, after taking
> the first few holes to adjust, but it certainly wasn't fun.
>
> More generally, how can I be confident that I'm playing quickly enough?
> Especially with the way our course is laid out, there will always be a big
> backup at certain holes, so going by the position of the groups ahead or
> behind isn't useful. What are some guidelines for beginners about how much
> time is allowed to prepare for shots?
>
> Thanks in advance.
You've already gotten quite a few responses (and I haven't read them
all), but I'll add mine.
1. Two practice swings, at most, and they shouldn't take more than a
total of ten seconds.
2. Don't pace off any chips/pitches. It's a game of feel and knowing
your exact yardage inside 50 yards isn't necessary. If you're inside
the 100 yard ker, you'll pass the 100 yard ker and you can count
while you're walking to your ball. (or your cart partner can drop you
off)
3. Learn to read your putt from behind your ball only. 99% of the
time that will be enough, and you aren't good enough to gain much from
that 1%. If you're fourth to hit, then you can take some extra time
looking while others are putting. When it's your turn to putt, then a
quick glance is all you should need before you hit it.
4. Watch your ball. Watch your ball. Watch your ball. All the way
until it stops. Then use the surrounding area to make where it went.
Casual golfers (1-5 times/year) are the worst at this. They don't
watch their ball until it stops and then have a 75 yard search area to
look for it.
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Date: 28 Feb 2007 10:02:38
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
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On 28 Feb 2007 08:38:10 -0800, "BigPurdueFan" <bigpufan@aol.com >
wrote:
>3. Learn to read your putt from behind your ball only. 99% of the
>time that will be enough, and you aren't good enough to gain much from
>that 1%. If you're fourth to hit, then you can take some extra time
>looking while others are putting. When it's your turn to putt, then a
>quick glance is all you should need before you hit it.
>4. Watch your ball. Watch your ball. Watch your ball. All the way
>until it stops. Then use the surrounding area to make where it went.
>Casual golfers (1-5 times/year) are the worst at this. They don't
>watch their ball until it stops and then have a 75 yard search area to
>look for it.
Note: BigPurdueFan is describing how to not lose a ball. In
putting, wait a full second before looking at where the ball is.
Watching the ball is a skill that can be practiced - for instance
while someone else is hitting.
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Date: 26 Feb 2007 16:08:04
From: Tom Yost
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
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On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 00:18:26 GMT, "Eric Lindholm"
<blumberg.NO.lindholm.SPAM@verizon.net > wrote:
>I took up the game about six months ago, and on a reasonably good day I can
>average double bogey on our local course of par-3's and 4's. So I'm bad,
>but not blindingly incompetent, as beginners go.
>
>I'm starting to feel a lot of pressure about my playing speed. In
>particular, one guy that I plays with tells me, a couple of times each
>round, that I am too slow. There are lots of ways in which I can benefit
>from a bit more time than someone who is more experienced:
>
>1. Having a few more practice swings before each shot, since my swing is
>still nowhere near consistent. (Yes, I also put in time on the driving
>range.)
>
>2. Pacing off pitches of 50-100 yards, since my eye isn't good for judging
>the distance.
>
>3. Looking at putts from both sides of the green, since I'm not adept at
>reading breaks.
>
>4. In some cases, simply finding my ball, since I hit more than my share of
>errant shots.
>
>What doesn't help is that our local course schedules tee times only eight
>minutes apart, so it tends to be completely jammed up during peak periods.
>
>I did some reading online, including on the USGA site, and the general
>message seems to be that everyone should play as quickly as they can,
>treating all time "on the clock" as a supreme inconvenience to the other
>players in the group and on the hole behind. More than one source says that
>the playing speed of pros on television should be ignored, because they have
>a lot of money at stake and so are entitled to be more thoughtful.
>
>I don't have professional aspirations, obviously, but how soon in one's
>development as a golfer is one entitled to think about what he's doing? I
>tried "speed golf" the last time out and could sort of do it, after taking
>the first few holes to adjust, but it certainly wasn't fun.
>
>More generally, how can I be confident that I'm playing quickly enough?
>Especially with the way our course is laid out, there will always be a big
>backup at certain holes, so going by the position of the groups ahead or
>behind isn't useful. What are some guidelines for beginners about how much
>time is allowed to prepare for shots?
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
Honestly, you are not shooting 108 because you don't have time to pace
off your <100 yard shots or look at putts from both sides. It is
unlikely that these things would even be helpful for a mid-high
handicap golfer.
You can get away with doing these things ONLY if you are doing it
while it's not your turn to hit (i.e. while you are waiting for
someone else to hit or the group in front of you to clear...)
When it's your turn to hit, you should be ready with club in hand,
take one or two practice swings, line up and hit it. If you are
pacing off yardage or reading the green from behind the ball when it
is your turn to hit, then yes you are a slow player.
You shouldn't feel rushed on the golf course, but you need to develop
good habits that keep things moving.
Good luck!
Tom
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Date: 25 Feb 2007 03:21:16
From: \R&B\
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
"Eric Lindholm" wrote ...
>
>I took up the game about six months ago, and on a reasonably good day I can
>average double bogey on our local course of par-3's and 4's. So I'm bad,
>but not blindingly incompetent, as beginners go.
>
> I'm starting to feel a lot of pressure about my playing speed. In
> particular, one guy that I plays with tells me, a couple of times each
> round, that I am too slow. There are lots of ways in which I can benefit
> from a bit more time than someone who is more experienced:
>
> 1. Having a few more practice swings before each shot, since my swing is
> still nowhere near consistent. (Yes, I also put in time on the driving
> range.)
This is simply a myth. Extra practice swings will only wear you out.
Especially if you're shooting double-bogey golf, you're making plenty of
swings already without wearing yourself out making all those practice
swings.
The best advice I ever received after playing golf for only about one year
(and believe me, I was terrible) was to take NO practice swings. This
advice came from a guy who was a scratch golfer who, while in college,
seriously considered going on TOUR. (But he reconsidered when a friend of
his, whose handicap was about a stroke lower, tried and failed to make it on
TOUR.)
It took a while for me to mentally adjust to eliminating practice swings
from my pre-shot routine, but I started playing better almost immediately.
Probably because my pace quickened, because I made about the same number of
awful shots as I did while taking practice swings.
I promise -- you won't notice any difference.
> 2. Pacing off pitches of 50-100 yards, since my eye isn't good for judging
> the distance.
Stop that, and stop it right now. You're not playing in the damn US Open,
and if you were, you would have already missed the cut. If you're walking,
pace off the yardage as you walk past the 100-yard ker toward your ball,
rather than walking from your ball up to the green and back.
I would strangle you if you were paired with me.
I pose this question to you:
Unless you can say precisely how far you hit each iron -- to within a yard
or two -- consistently, shot after shot, what possible good is it going to
do you to know that your distance to the pin is 62 yards instead of 55
yards? Just look at the 100-yard ker in the fairway and gauge your
distance off that (they're usually measured to the center of the green,
which is more precise than you could possibly hope to be at this stage).
And if you can't guestimate how far inside (or outside) one of the yardage
kers you're standing, then go stand on a nearby high school football
field and get a feel for how far 5 yards, 10 yards, 20 yards is.
You shouldn't have to pace it off to get a feel for the approximate yardage.
You're not good enough to know you hit a half-wedge EXACTLY 55 yards, within
a yard or two of that distance every time. If you are, you shouldn't be
shooting double-bogey golf.
> 3. Looking at putts from both sides of the green, since I'm not adept at
> reading breaks.
You can do that while others are lining up their putts. Don't wait until
it's your turn to start sizing up your putts (although don't walk around
while others are standing over their putts either). You're wasting
everyone's time if you don't do some preliminary gauging of your putt before
it's your turn. Use your feet to read the break as you first walk on to the
green. Notice where the low side of the green is when you're walking up to
it (where the water drains off). Watch how other players' balls are
breaking around the hole (but don't stand directly behind them to watch the
line, either -- that's a no-no).
> 4. In some cases, simply finding my ball, since I hit more than my share
> of errant shots.
Well, that takes everyone time when they hit into no-man's-land. Just keep
your eyes on the ball when it's in the air and make a mental note of where
it entered the trees. You'll get better at this over time.
Really, if you're doing all those things, you ARE slow. Very, very slow.
> What doesn't help is that our local course schedules tee times only eight
> minutes apart, so it tends to be completely jammed up during peak periods.
>
> I did some reading online, including on the USGA site, and the general
> message seems to be that everyone should play as quickly as they can,
> treating all time "on the clock" as a supreme inconvenience to the other
> players in the group and on the hole behind. More than one source says
> that the playing speed of pros on television should be ignored, because
> they have a lot of money at stake and so are entitled to be more
> thoughtful.
>
> I don't have professional aspirations, obviously, but how soon in one's
> development as a golfer is one entitled to think about what he's doing? I
> tried "speed golf" the last time out and could sort of do it, after taking
> the first few holes to adjust, but it certainly wasn't fun.
The idea is not to swing fast (a slower swing tempo is desired), but to be
ready when it's your turn and to make your shot without dilly-dallying
before doing so. Too often players spend an inordinant amount of time
thinking, analyzing, and sizing up their shot, and then freezing over the
ball, or as you say you're doing with your full swing shots, taking several
practice swings.
Just hit the damn ball and go find it!!!!!!!!! The world will not end if
you hit another bad shot. Your mother wil still love you if you hit
another bad shot. You're a double-bogey golfer. You're going to hit bad
shots whether you take practice swings or not.
It will not make any appreciable difference in the overall quality of your
shotmaking over the long haul if you pick up your pace. If anything, it
will make you play better if you stop futzing around. Plus, when you stand
over a shot for too long, your muscles will tense up, and there's no way in
hell you can possibly make a good swing all tied up in knots like that.
Golf is a game for limber muscles. A good golf swing is a physical
impossibility when your muscles tighten.
The better question to ask yourself than "how long before I can become more
thoughtful?" is this: What is it you're thinking about? If you have more
than one swing thought at a time, that's too many.
Personally, if I'm playing badly, I want to get it over with...not make a
longer afternoon of it, prolonging my misery.
> More generally, how can I be confident that I'm playing quickly enough?
Most better players -- and indeed, most intermediate players -- would never
ask that question. They would much prefer playing at a fairly brisk pace
(not rushing, just moving along at a good pace) than to have to wait and
wait. Again, that causes the muscles to tighten. Not a good thing.
Develop a pre-shot routine. Watch all the top players in the world. They
always repeat the same pre-shot routine. From the time they pull a club
from their bag until the moment they pull the trigger on a shot, you could
put a stopwatch on them and that time would always be pretty much the same.
Most duffers who play slowly don't have a pre-shot routine, so they vary it
from shot to shot. As a result, their pace is slow and varied. Once you
develop a pre-shot routine, you'll immediately sense when you're falling off
tempo. Just make sure your pre-shot routine doesn't turn into an overly
choreographed dance with a lot of moves. Watch the top players. Just like
with the swing itself, the simpler you keep your pre-shot routine, the
easier it is to repeat.
> Especially with the way our course is laid out, there will always be a big
> backup at certain holes, so going by the position of the groups ahead or
> behind isn't useful.
Yes it is. As long as you're maintaining your position relative to the
group in front of you, and not letting them leave you behind in a cloud of
dust, you're doing fine.
> What are some guidelines for beginners about how much time
> is allowed to prepare for shots?
The best way to learn this is to play with better, more experienced players.
Not necessarily scratch golfers, but single digit handicappers, or even
players who consistently shoot in the low 80s. You'll quickly get a feel
for how long they take over each shot. Notice that if they take any
practice swings at all, it's usually just one. Most don't take any. You
wouldn't want to waste a good swing on a practice swing.
Only playing with hackers who are no better than you are (or worse) will
only instill bad habits, both in terms of swing mechanics and etiquette/pace
of play issues. You can't learn a thing from playing with them.
Randy
|
| | |
Date: 25 Feb 2007 14:13:39
From: Zuke
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
On Sun, 25 Feb 2007, Eric Lindholm wrote:
> I think this has been discussed to death, so, to sum up:
>
> I'm still learning how to swing the club. My first practice swing is almost
>
> I can honestly say that, if I have to wait on the player or group in front
> of me, it does not bother me. If I had something I had to be doing in the
> next five minutes, I wouldn't be on the course in the first place. However,
> it's now clear to me that (almost?) no one else approaches the game this
> way. It's a competition like any other, and people do it for all the same
> reasons that they do most sports -- to work out aggression, try to prove
This is bs. One guy like you can hold up a whole course for the entire
day. A leisurely pace is fine but your kind of activity lengthens the
experience to 5 1/2 or 6 hours. Unfortunately a golf course can only
move as fast as the slowest group. At any well run operation a ranger
would be on your slow ass sooner rather than later because it means less
money for the course. Fortunately most courses are figuring this out.
Hey, the last thing a fellow competitor wants to tell you is that you
are playing slow. We all hold our tongue in this situation until it
becomes unbearable.
|
| | | |
Date: 25 Feb 2007 21:22:41
From: Eric Lindholm
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
> This is bs. One guy like you can hold up a whole course for the entire
> day. A leisurely pace is fine but your kind of activity lengthens the
> experience to 5 1/2 or 6 hours.
Oh for Christ's sake. Back when I played "slow," I did nine holes (par 32)
in 1:50-1:55 if there weren't clogs in front of me. I was never THAT slow.
|
| | | | |
Date: 26 Feb 2007 04:10:06
From: Rob Davis
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
Eric Lindholm wrote:
>>This is bs. One guy like you can hold up a whole course for the entire
>>day. A leisurely pace is fine but your kind of activity lengthens the
>>experience to 5 1/2 or 6 hours.
>
>
> Oh for Christ's sake. Back when I played "slow," I did nine holes (par 32)
> in 1:50-1:55 if there weren't clogs in front of me. I was never THAT slow.
>
>
Hmmm ... I don't believe you actually mentioned playing time before, so
that does put some new perspective on it. IMHO, a 4 hour round (18
holes) is pretty reasonable speed. Maybe you're not playing as "slow" as
you think ... it's kinda' relative. The basic idea is to keep up with
the group in front of you. If the course isn't crowded and someone
behind you wants to play faster, you can always let them play through.
Rob
|
| | | | | |
Date: 27 Feb 2007 18:03:21
From: bill-o
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
On 25-Feb-2007, Rob Davis <davis.rob@verizon.net > wrote:
> IMHO, a 4 hour round (18
> holes) is pretty reasonable speed.
This really depends: on one course I play regularly it is speedy (4:15 is
avg) and on another it is annoyingly slow (3:30-45 is avg)
--
bill-o
A "gimme" can best be defined as an agreement between
two golfers neither of whom can putt very well.
|
| | | | |
Date: 25 Feb 2007 16:28:06
From: Otto
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
"Eric Lindholm" <blumberg.NO.lindholm.SPAM@verizon.net > wrote in message
news:B6nEh.14039$sv6.3533@trndny08...
> Oh for Christ's sake. Back when I played "slow," I did nine holes (par
32)
> in 1:50-1:55 if there weren't clogs in front of me. I was never THAT
slow.
Sounds like your playing speed is fine for a foursome.
If you are playing alone, you should be looking for 1:00-1:15. 1:30 tops.
These are walking speeds. No practice. Playing one ball.
Again, if the weather sucks and you are the only golfer on the course, take
all the time you want. That is the benefit of playing when the weather
sucks.
Just keep looking behind you so you don't hold anyone up.
Otto
|
| | |
Date: 25 Feb 2007 17:57:13
From: Eric Lindholm
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
I think this has been discussed to death, so, to sum up:
I'm still learning how to swing the club. My first practice swing is almost
always terrible -- if the ball had been there, I wouldn't have hit it. It
takes me a couple of errors to figure out which basic, obvious thing I've
forgotten this time. (It's usually something different each time.) Yes, I
need more practice. But for now, the extra practice swings save time,
because without them, my rate of terrible shots would be much higher. I can
do everything else more quickly, but I still need two or three practice
swings. I'll keep working on it.
Several people said I think too much. You'd have to know me. No matter
what the physical activity is, I'm pretty poor on instincts. My athletic
talent is well below average (even though I'm in decent shape). All sorts
of basic athletic things (not just in golf) that are instinctual for most
people just aren't for me. My only hope for "getting it" is to think about
it very, very carefully. I know this from years of experience in other
sports.
Regarding the pitches, no, of course I don't need to know whether it's 56 or
62 yards. I need to know whether it's 60 or 80. If I walk 40 or 50 yards I
can tell. However, I've stopped doing it, so everyone can relax.
There are no yardage kers inside of 100 anywhere on the course. (Only
four of the nine holes play over 160.)
Greens: For now, this is simply a concession. I played again yesterday and
had my best round as far as tee-to-green was concerned. But even though I
was in a threesome and used as much of "their" time as I could to look
around, I still had much less of a read on the greens than I'm used to.
Over and over, I putt wishing that I could have had another 30 seconds to
look, since I know from experience that it has helped me in the past (I
often putt relatively well, for a duffer). But I felt that I couldn't take
the time, so I just guessed. As a result I putted terribly and my score
wasn't particularly good. That's no one's fault but mine, and based on the
feedback I've gotten here, I just have to deal with it.
But finally, regarding speed in general:
I am new to the game. What I knew about it six months ago came from
watching television and hearing people talk about it. I heard all the time
about how it's supposed to be relaxing. Pros appear to be taking their
time, making it a mental challenge as much as a physical one. My
romanticized fantasy of golf was that it would be an opportunity to slow
down from the hectic pace of work-life, be among the grass and trees, and
share some "thought time" with fellow players in the context of a game in
which "competitors" pit themselves against the course, not each other. I'm
sure most of you are rolling your eyes and snickering about how naive and
ridiculous this notion was, but that's how the game can look to an outsider.
I can honestly say that, if I have to wait on the player or group in front
of me, it does not bother me. If I had something I had to be doing in the
next five minutes, I wouldn't be on the course in the first place. However,
it's now clear to me that (almost?) no one else approaches the game this
way. It's a competition like any other, and people do it for all the same
reasons that they do most sports -- to work out aggression, try to prove
that they're better than someone else, maybe gain a little fitness. Based
on this new understanding, I don't know why anyone ever characterizes golf
as "relaxing," any more than, say, racquetball (which I also play). It sure
isn't relaxing to me; it's 90+ minutes of pressure to conform and not piss
anyone off. And I can do that, it's fine -- I'll play by whatever the rules
and conventions are. But I have to admit I'm puzzled that people talk about
this activity so reverently at the same time that they are so desperate to
get it over with.
Thanks again for the responses.
|
| | | |
Date: 27 Feb 2007 14:20:09
From: \R&B\
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
"Eric Lindholm" wrote ...
>
> If I had something I had to be doing in the next five minutes, I wouldn't
> be on the course in the first place. However, it's now clear to me that
> (almost?) no one else approaches the game this way. It's a competition
> like any other, and people do it for all the same reasons that they do
> most sports -- to work out aggression, try to prove that they're better
> than someone else, maybe gain a little fitness. Based on this new
> understanding, I don't know why anyone ever characterizes golf as
> "relaxing," any more than, say, racquetball (which I also play).
First of all, for you to generalize about why others play golf is pretty
foolish. Like with all activities, different people participate for
different reasons.
It's true that some play it for the sake of competition. Some play it to
get away from their everyday stresses, and are perfectly okay playing
horribly while enjoying the sunshine and breeze and the sound of birds
chirping. And while I can't think I've ever played with anyone before who
played golf for the sole purpose of taking their aggression out on a little
white ball, I'm sure there are some who do that.
The list of reasons why different people play golf is long.
I can tell you why I play. Because it's fun. That said, I have a helluva
lot more fun when I'm playing well than I do when I'm playing poorly. And I
can also tell you that I'm like most others in that I can almost never play
my best when I'm having to wait for the group ahead to clear the area before
every shot. It's next to impossible to get into any kind of rhythm that
way.
And that's why slow players are so infuriating. It takes some of the fun
out of the game for the rest of us when slow players cause a bottleneck and
slow the whole golf course down to a crawl. Since fun is the priy reason
I, and a lot of others, play golf, maybe you can see why most people
consider slow players as the most annoying people on a golf course.
Ironically, the people who are playing slow are very rarely having much fun
themselves.
Very rarely do you find a good player playing well......slowly.
Generally speaking, when you see a really slow player, he's really
bad....and probably not playing his best.
With all that said, I do not consider a round of golf to be a race. And if
anyone is pressuring you to rush your shots, then that's not right either.
But what you've described about your preshot routine is something far more
than just "taking your time." It's just a snail's pace. However, if you're
playing an 18-hole round on a regulation sized golf course in around 4 hours
(give or take -- some courses just play faster, some slower), your pace is
fine.
Randy
It sure
> isn't relaxing to me; it's 90+ minutes of pressure to conform and not piss
> anyone off. And I can do that, it's fine -- I'll play by whatever the
> rules and conventions are. But I have to admit I'm puzzled that people
> talk about this activity so reverently at the same time that they are so
> desperate to get it over with.
>
> Thanks again for the responses.
>
>
|
| | | |
Date: 27 Feb 2007 14:06:48
From: \R&B\
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
"Eric Lindholm" wrote ...
>
> I'm still learning how to swing the club. My first practice swing is
> almost always terrible -- if the ball had been there, I wouldn't have hit
> it.
If, as you said, you're shooting around double-bogey golf, then the swing
you're actually hitting the ball with isn't much better.
I promise, you will not lose any strokes by just standing up to the ball and
hitting it with your first swing.
9 times out of 10, whenever a player takes a number of practice swings
before hitting, his "real" swing won't be as good as one of his practice
swings. The reason, of course, is that he has a mental block about standing
over the ball when it counts.
THAT'S the thing you've got to learn to get over, and taking added practice
swings isn't helping.
Make EVERY swing count, and then you won't have as much concern about it.
> It takes me a couple of errors to figure out which basic, obvious thing
> I've forgotten this time. (It's usually something different each time.)
> Yes, I need more practice.
Yes, you do.
However, the bigger problem is that you're making the same mistake 95% of
all recreational players make. You're trying to play the game of golfSWING
instead of just playing GOLF.
The game of golfSWING is best played on the range. Then when you get to the
tee on the first hole, just play golf. In other words, play with the swing
you brought to the course, and make whatever adjustments yoiu need to make
off of that.
Learning a good, repeating golf swing is not achieved on the golf course;
it's achieved on the practice tee.
And you can take as many practice swings before each shot there as you want
without any concern over slowing down the pace of anyone's play
I haven't mentioned it before now, but it bears noting. Take some lessons
from a professional. It's clear that you know very little about the golf
swing, and if you're trying to diagnose your own problems, you're setting
yourself up for a lifetime of miserable gol, which won't be very enjoyable
for you (or those behind you).
You needn't be serious about the game for lessons to make sense. When I
first started playing, I always said I only cared about getting good enough
to have fun playing. But I couldn't have achieved that level of play
without lessons. No way.
Randy
But for now, the extra practice swings save time,
> because without them, my rate of terrible shots would be much higher. I
> can do everything else more quickly, but I still need two or three
> practice swings. I'll keep working on it.
>
> Several people said I think too much. You'd have to know me. No matter
> what the physical activity is, I'm pretty poor on instincts. My athletic
> talent is well below average (even though I'm in decent shape). All sorts
> of basic athletic things (not just in golf) that are instinctual for most
> people just aren't for me. My only hope for "getting it" is to think
> about it very, very carefully. I know this from years of experience in
> other sports.
>
> Regarding the pitches, no, of course I don't need to know whether it's 56
> or 62 yards. I need to know whether it's 60 or 80. If I walk 40 or 50
> yards I can tell. However, I've stopped doing it, so everyone can relax.
>
> There are no yardage kers inside of 100 anywhere on the course. (Only
> four of the nine holes play over 160.)
>
> Greens: For now, this is simply a concession. I played again yesterday
> and had my best round as far as tee-to-green was concerned. But even
> though I was in a threesome and used as much of "their" time as I could to
> look around, I still had much less of a read on the greens than I'm used
> to. Over and over, I putt wishing that I could have had another 30 seconds
> to look, since I know from experience that it has helped me in the past (I
> often putt relatively well, for a duffer). But I felt that I couldn't
> take the time, so I just guessed. As a result I putted terribly and my
> score wasn't particularly good. That's no one's fault but mine, and based
> on the feedback I've gotten here, I just have to deal with it.
>
> But finally, regarding speed in general:
>
> I am new to the game. What I knew about it six months ago came from
> watching television and hearing people talk about it. I heard all the
> time about how it's supposed to be relaxing. Pros appear to be taking
> their time, making it a mental challenge as much as a physical one. My
> romanticized fantasy of golf was that it would be an opportunity to slow
> down from the hectic pace of work-life, be among the grass and trees, and
> share some "thought time" with fellow players in the context of a game in
> which "competitors" pit themselves against the course, not each other.
> I'm sure most of you are rolling your eyes and snickering about how naive
> and ridiculous this notion was, but that's how the game can look to an
> outsider.
>
> I can honestly say that, if I have to wait on the player or group in front
> of me, it does not bother me. If I had something I had to be doing in the
> next five minutes, I wouldn't be on the course in the first place.
> However, it's now clear to me that (almost?) no one else approaches the
> game this way. It's a competition like any other, and people do it for
> all the same reasons that they do most sports -- to work out aggression,
> try to prove that they're better than someone else, maybe gain a little
> fitness. Based on this new understanding, I don't know why anyone ever
> characterizes golf as "relaxing," any more than, say, racquetball (which I
> also play). It sure isn't relaxing to me; it's 90+ minutes of pressure to
> conform and not piss anyone off. And I can do that, it's fine -- I'll
> play by whatever the rules and conventions are. But I have to admit I'm
> puzzled that people talk about this activity so reverently at the same
> time that they are so desperate to get it over with.
>
> Thanks again for the responses.
>
>
|
| | | |
Date: 27 Feb 2007 00:25:51
From: \R&B\
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
"Eric Lindholm" wrote
>
> I can honestly say that, if I have to wait on
> the player or group in front of me, it does
> not bother me.
You should print out the post to which I'm responding (and have snipped
here), because in 5 or 10 years, you'll look back on it and realize how
naive you were.
Trust me, while waiting on the player or group in front of you doesn't
bother you, it bothers just about everyone else who plays golf. And
eventually, it will bother you, too.
Of course if the group ahead of you has no place to go (they're keeping up
with the group ahead of them), there's not much you can do. What you don't
want to be is the player who causes your group to lose its place on the
course by falling behind the group ahead of you. Then, you can be 100%
certain that the group behind you will be bothered by waiting on you.
The #1 (by far) complaint golfers voice is SLOW PLAY.
Randy
|
| | | | |
Date: 27 Feb 2007 07:43:14
From: BAR
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
"R&B" wrote:
> "Eric Lindholm" wrote
>> I can honestly say that, if I have to wait on
>> the player or group in front of me, it does
>> not bother me.
>
>
> You should print out the post to which I'm responding (and have snipped
> here), because in 5 or 10 years, you'll look back on it and realize how
> naive you were.
>
> Trust me, while waiting on the player or group in front of you doesn't
> bother you, it bothers just about everyone else who plays golf. And
> eventually, it will bother you, too.
>
> Of course if the group ahead of you has no place to go (they're keeping up
> with the group ahead of them), there's not much you can do. What you don't
> want to be is the player who causes your group to lose its place on the
> course by falling behind the group ahead of you. Then, you can be 100%
> certain that the group behind you will be bothered by waiting on you.
>
> The #1 (by far) complaint golfers voice is SLOW PLAY.
My worst day on the course was when I got paired up with a father and
his son who was about 11 years old. The father had a two minute routine
over the ball with numerous practice swings, pulling the club back and
then down to the ball, bouncing up and down through the knees and
buttocks and then finally making a swing which was immediately followed
by a god damn it son of a bitch fuck. Then he would proceed to instruct
his son on how to hit the golf ball.
The only good thing was that I only paid for 9 holes and the weather was
fairly good.
|
| | | |
Date: 26 Feb 2007 04:46:04
From: Rob Davis
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
Eric Lindholm wrote:
> I think this has been discussed to death, so, to sum up:
Well, you'd be surprised how much people can talk about speed of play
8^). But seriously, it's a fairly big issue wirh folks these days ...
mostly because courses are so crowded during prime time (weekends) ...
and that may explain some of the more critical/impassioned responses.
>
> But finally, regarding speed in general:
>
> I am new to the game. What I knew about it six months ago came from
> watching television and hearing people talk about it. I heard all the time
> about how it's supposed to be relaxing. Pros appear to be taking their
> time, making it a mental challenge as much as a physical one. My
> romanticized fantasy of golf was that it would be an opportunity to slow
> down from the hectic pace of work-life, be among the grass and trees, and
> share some "thought time" with fellow players in the context of a game in
> which "competitors" pit themselves against the course, not each other. I'm
> sure most of you are rolling your eyes and snickering about how naive and
> ridiculous this notion was, but that's how the game can look to an outsider.
>
Part of this feeling is because you are new to the game and you feel a
lot of pressure because your swing isn't reliable enough to hit decent
shots. If you stick with it long enough so that you don't spend so much
time looking for balls and ending up at those awkward, in-between
distances ... then the "relaxing" part will be a little more obvious. If
you hit the majority of your shots so they stay in play (not perfect,
but just not deep into the crap), then most of your time is really spent
as a casual stroll up to where your ball is (assuming you walk, which I
highly recommned when possible).
Of course the flip side of this is that there's people out there who are
pretty serious about their game, have spent a lot of time working at it,
and slow play is a serious problem when you're trying to get in a good
rhythm. It's pretty annoying to watch the folks in front of you
continuously hit it sideways (from the back tees), spend a long time
looking for lost balls, and then size up their 3rd putt from all 4 four
sides in order to save their 9 on that hole 8^).
The bottom line to me is simply about courtesy ... you get to enjoy your
round, but don't forget that you're sharing the course with all those
folks behind you. If you keep up with the group in front, then there's
not much more to be done. If you fall behind, then you should be aware
of a few simple things ... know when it's your turn and be ready to play
when it's your turn, do your best to keep your eye on the ball when you
do hit it sideways (and help the others in your group if you can), don't
agonize over things like distance or reading the green (try to do as
much as you can when it's others turn, and your first instinct is
probably your best ... or at least it will be with a little experience).
Have fun,
Rob
|
| | | |
Date: 25 Feb 2007 14:14:18
From: Otto
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
"Eric Lindholm" <blumberg.NO.lindholm.SPAM@verizon.net > wrote in message
news:Z5kEh.1495$aO6.1255@trndny06...
> I'm still learning how to swing the club. My first practice swing is
almost
> always terrible -- if the ball had been there, I wouldn't have hit it. It
> takes me a couple of errors to figure out which basic, obvious thing I've
> forgotten this time.
Don't forget, you can get a lot of this done while waiting for others. Get
done what you can while waiting for others and when it is your turn, get on
with it.
> Several people said I think too much.
There is generally a lot of time to think between shots while walking/riding
to the next shot or while waiting for others. Just try to use your dead time
efficiently.
> Regarding the pitches, no, of course I don't need to know whether it's 56
or
> 62 yards. I need to know whether it's 60 or 80.
Get yourself one of these:
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&satitle=bushnell+xl+tour+r
angefinder
It has the pinseeker technology which is a must. Use it on every shot. Every
wedge. Your subconscious, over time, will develop a swing pattern for
various lengths and slopes. It doesn't happen overnight. For partial wedges
inside 100 yards, I find the rangefinder coupled with the clock system for
backswing distance and you can gain some proficiency.
> There are no yardage kers inside of 100 anywhere on the course. (Only
> four of the nine holes play over 160.)
Get the rangefinder and hang it on the side of your bag during play. It only
takes about 15 seconds to use for each shot.
> Greens: For now, this is simply a concession. I played again yesterday
and
> had my best round as far as tee-to-green was concerned. But even though I
> was in a threesome and used as much of "their" time as I could to look
> around, I still had much less of a read on the greens than I'm used to.
Here are some things that can help:
Read the green as you are approaching it.
Read the green as you maneuver to your ball.
Read the green as you watch what the ball is doing on other players' putts.
Continue to watch what the balls do AFTER they pass the hole--lots of read
opportunity there.
One last thing for read is in relation to your next point:
> But finally, regarding speed in general:
Speed is more important than line. You won't three putt because you had a
bad line. Most of the time, you will three putt because you blew the ball 10
feet past the hole or left it 10 feet short.
Here are some tools for speed:
1. Stand to the side of the line between your ball and the hole. Essentially
bisect it at the midpoint. Evaluate the slope(up or down or level) from the
ball to the hole. This can also be done as you approach the green. You can
also use this side view to evaluate line.
2. Focus on hitting the ball with the sweet spot of the putter to get
consistent ball action. You can not control your distance if you can not hit
the sweet spot consistently.
3. Pay attention to what the ball does. Did it bounce? Bouncing putts carry
less speed. Did I hit the sweet spot? Toed or heel hits will carry less
speed. How far off was my speed? Adjust accordingly.
4. The greens themselves. Pay attention to how bumpy, or wet, or rolled, or
mowed they are. These things all influence speed.
> I can honestly say that, if I have to wait on the player or group in front
> of me, it does not bother me.
It only bothers me if it happens all day and the course has opened up in
front of them becasue they are sooo slow.
> If I had something I had to be doing in the
> next five minutes, I wouldn't be on the course in the first place.
None of us would. But having to take 6 hours to play a 4 hour round that I
can play in 2 and 1/2 hours gets a bit old.
> However,
> it's now clear to me that (almost?) no one else approaches the game this
> way.
None of us care about 5 minutes.
>Based
> on this new understanding, I don't know why anyone ever characterizes golf
> as "relaxing," any more than, say, racquetball (which I also play).
Racquetball is relaxing too. Golf is very relaxing unless the group in front
is wasting 2-3 hours for everyone else behind them.
> It sure
> isn't relaxing to me; it's 90+ minutes of pressure to conform and not piss
> anyone off.
If you are playing 18 holes on a par 72 course in 90 minutes then your speed
of play is not an issue.
> But I have to admit I'm puzzled that people talk about
> this activity so reverently at the same time that they are so desperate to
> get it over with.
They don't want to get over with it. They want to play.
Otto
|
| | | |
Date: 25 Feb 2007 13:24:39
From: David Geesaman
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
Eric Lindholm wrote:
> I think this has been discussed to death, so, to sum up:
> Thanks again for the responses.
Thanks for seriously considering the advices. (Some of it wasn't
exactly useful and friendly, so you definitely tolerated more than you
should have). I personally am embarrassed that some here lashed out in
anger about it - the fact that you're open to the question is miles
different from the slow golfers that ignore and purposely persist in
their bad habits.
I think most golfers will agree that golf is relaxing, but standing and
waiting is not. The amount of time walking in between shots is plenty
to get yourself mentally ready, and really I find myself thinking much
of the time. Waiting repeatedly as a group before every shot is a
serious disruption to the flow of the game. I find the game most
relaxing when I can simply golf. I don't mind waiting on occasion if I
see that the players in front of me are moving with any efficiency -
it's waiting for the ones who have trained themselves to rely on
wasteful and meaningless preshot routines that drive me a little nuts.
I too am very analytical and not naturally instinctive. I've learned
that good golf is not about digging deeper and into more detail
mentally, trying to find that perfect bump-and-run line, or the perfect
angle to play a dogleg. It's really about keeping the game as simple as
possible - always play to the center of the fairway, play to the center
of the green or next best landing area, making the basic chip or putt
and sinking the finishing putt. To lower scores, you can ignore all the
fancy detailed things and variations and focus on getting good at all
the basics. The more boring the round, the lower the score, I have
found. If every hole is 'interesting' you'll never develop the rhythm
and instinct to put your trust into.
About the putting - you have to trust the line. Even if you think you
have the line and speed completely figured out, you probably don't. No
amount of studying and staring is going to solve this little puzzle, and
like many puzzling questions, the best approach is to first get a good
view of it, then the first idea that pops into your head is usually the
best one. Reading greens is not easy, and the way to learn is to make
the best read you can, then commit mentally to rolling the ball on that
line at that speed. Keeping in mind that you can make any putt, make
the putt the way you envisioned it. If you commit a plan with each
stroke then stop and completely turn your focus on execution, you'll
actually learn something from each one. Statistically, you will miss
most putts, and each putt is something you can learn from, but only if
you followed your plan. A putt not committed is a stroke wasted, and a
stroke where nothing was learned.
There's a great book called Golf Is Not a Game of Perfect, and it's a
great read for new and old player. I find that after reading it, it's
hard to not be relaxed and enjoy the challenge of the game.
Dave
|
| |
Date: 24 Feb 2007 12:47:06
From: David Geesaman
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
Eric Lindholm wrote:
> I took up the game about six months ago, and on a reasonably good day I can
> average double bogey on our local course of par-3's and 4's. So I'm bad,
> but not blindingly incompetent, as beginners go.
>
> I'm starting to feel a lot of pressure about my playing speed. In
> particular, one guy that I plays with tells me, a couple of times each
> round, that I am too slow. There are lots of ways in which I can benefit
> from a bit more time than someone who is more experienced:
I read ahead - and yes if you are going thru all of the things you
listed below on every shot, and taking 2 strokes more than a good
player, your pace will be much slower than is acceptable. The reason I
say that is because I think you will get faster and shoot lower scores
if you change a few priorities and drop some things from your shot prep.
Our brains can't really handle a whole lot, and the less we try to cram
into them the better we physically execute the result. You will improve
drastically as a player if you spend some effort on identifying what
really matters and what matters less in producing a good golf shot.
> 1. Having a few more practice swings before each shot, since my swing is
> still nowhere near consistent. (Yes, I also put in time on the driving
> range.)
Ok, if you're doing them before it's your turn to play. Multiple
practice swings are usually garbage, and don't improve the actual swing.
While you're free to prepare for your shot however you wish, do NOT
make people wait for more than one practice swing in your regular
preshot routine.
IMHO, more then one practice swing is unnecessary as part of a preshot
routine. I will make them, but usually before it's my turn to hit, to
assess my lie, loosen up, etc. Then I focus on visualizing the swing I
want to make. When it's my turn to hit, I step, visualize once, and hit
it. This IME is far more effective than trying to physically find the
right swing.
> 2. Pacing off pitches of 50-100 yards, since my eye isn't good for judging
> the distance.
Yes, a massive waste of time in most cases. I suggest you work on using
the 100y and 75y kers to find your distance. If you're going to pace
off a pitch, do it in such a way that nobody has to wait for you to do
it. During the walk back, think about exactly what will go into the
shot. Then you get back to your bag/ball, you should know exactly what
club you're going to use, what kind of shot you will attempt.
Then do it. Then grab your bag and walk off the yardage. As a
beginner, it's far more useful to hit and feel a shot, THEN figure out
exactly how far it went. Knowing how far you wanted it to go is not
useful in developing your game.
I find I'm much more efficient and effective if I walk anywhere from 1/2
to 2/3 of the way to the hole, get a good look at the landing area, then
look at it from the side. I can usually do this while others are
preparing or taking a shot.
> 3. Looking at putts from both sides of the green, since I'm not adept at
> reading breaks.
I do this judiciously. In most cases, the speed of the putt is far more
important than the precise line, and walking to the hole is more than
enough to assess the shot. IMHO, you'll do a lot better focusing on
assessing distance and speed more than break. Line (break) and speed
are coupled - you will never get the line right if you don't have the
speed correct, so you developing the skill of getting the speed right is
much more important. Again, I try to do my planning before it's my
turn, so I have my speed and line chosen when it's time to hit.
> 4. In some cases, simply finding my ball, since I hit more than my share of
> errant shots.
In this case, keep in mind two things:
1) you need to find the simplest and easiest way out of trouble. This
is a simple strategy issue, but it will help your pace. Search for the
ball carrying your bag or a wedge. Then when you find it, take the
simplest approach to getting it back in the fairway. Those big fancy
recovery shots to the green are for pros, and where most golfers go from
making bogey to making double or triple bogey.
2) You need to accept that not every ball is findable, and to use every
bit of your eyesight and vantage point to see where it went when you hit
it. Too many beginners are too busy being angry to really see the shot.
The anger and loss of ball are the 2nd and 3rd penalties of the bad
shot, and are relatively easy to stop. You can't completely stop making
bad shots, of course.
> What doesn't help is that our local course schedules tee times only eight
> minutes apart, so it tends to be completely jammed up during peak periods.
Yeah, that's not good. Either find another place to play, or if you
continue to play there, KEEP UP with the group ahead of you. If you
play as a twosome, yes, you can take a little longer with each shot. If
you're in a foursome, you will not have as much time for each shot.
> I did some reading online, including on the USGA site, and the general
> message seems to be that everyone should play as quickly as they can,
> treating all time "on the clock" as a supreme inconvenience to the other
> players in the group and on the hole behind. More than one source says that
> the playing speed of pros on television should be ignored, because they have
> a lot of money at stake and so are entitled to be more thoughtful.
This is generally true. The pros go thru exaggerated and extra thorough
routines on a Saturday or Sunday. Most of them, on Thu or Friday, play
a lot faster. In practice rounds they definitely play faster.
> I don't have professional aspirations, obviously, but how soon in one's
> development as a golfer is one entitled to think about what he's doing? I
> tried "speed golf" the last time out and could sort of do it, after taking
> the first few holes to adjust, but it certainly wasn't fun.
Maybe your regular group is less than helpful or downright nasty about
the playing speed issue. But yes, I think you should try to learn it.
The players you aspire to compete with or beat play a whole lot faster
than the average beginner. It's a skill that is worth trying to develop
just as much as any other aspect of the game. There is no 'passing
lane' on a golf course, where others can go by without affecting each
other. Letting others play thru is a good solution for the moment, but
if you have to let several groups of similar size play thru every round
you are creating a problem.
The key is to cutting your preshot routine down to a bare minimum, and
use that preshot routine exactly when your'e at the practice range until
you trust it and believe in it.
Then, when on the course, try to get your thinking and planning done
before it's your turn to play. And be REASONABLE in how much analysis
is useful for your level of execution. At this point in your game, it's
far more important to try to do same thing every time, and make minor
mistakes in reading greens or reading the wind. Long, analytical
preshot routines only get in the way of developing a rhythm, and hamper
consistency. At that point in my development, keeping it simple and
executing what you planned to do is FAR more effective at bringing down
score than to formulate a perfect plan for each shot.
> More generally, how can I be confident that I'm playing quickly enough?
> Especially with the way our course is laid out, there will always be a big
> backup at certain holes, so going by the position of the groups ahead or
> behind isn't useful. What are some guidelines for beginners about how much
> time is allowed to prepare for shots?
If you're getting flack for being slow when your group is still
immediately behind the next group, then they can go fly a kite. Big
backups at the same holes are not the fault of the golfers if there are
not gaps developing between groups.
On each shot the amount of time depends, so without a full course to
judge your progress, I look to make each nine in 2 hours. But basic
shots like a greenside chip, long putt, short putt, tee shot, should
IMHO take no more than 30s to complete when it's your turn to hit.
> Thanks in advance.
Dave
|
| |
Date: 24 Feb 2007 06:50:17
From: Birdie Bill
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
On Feb 23, 6:18 pm, "Eric Lindholm"
<blumberg.NO.lindholm.S...@verizon.net > wrote:
> More generally, how can I be confident that I'm playing quickly enough?
> Especially with the way our course is laid out, there will always be a big
> backup at certain holes, so going by the position of the groups ahead or
> behind isn't useful. What are some guidelines for beginners about how much
> time is allowed to prepare for shots?
In general, as long as you keep up with the group ahead,
and are ready to hit when it is your turn, you shouldn't get
too many complaints.
I used to play with a guy who would stand over the ball
for over a minute before taking a swing. You could see
him going through a checklist in his mind measuring to
the ball, checking his alignment, etc. etc. then, finally the
swing. But, wait, that was just his PRACTICE swing.
Then he would step up to the ball and go through the
same agonizing sequence again.
Needless to say, everyone hated to play with him.
And even though I liked the guy a lot personally,
I eventually started avoiding him, too, until he got
over that phase. Now he is pretty reasonable to play
with.
One thing I would also mention is don't make people
uncomfortable waiting for you, but don't rush yourself,
either, especially on the greens. Take some time
to read the break and get the feeling of the speed
you need. Much of this can be done while waiting
for others. Don't just stand there until it is your
turn and then go through the whole process
(but don't disturb someone while they are putting,
either - it's a fine line).
|
| |
Date: 24 Feb 2007 06:46:56
From: SKIPPER
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
On Feb 23, 7:18 pm, "Eric Lindholm"
<blumberg.NO.lindholm.S...@verizon.net > wrote:
> I took up the game about six months ago, and on a reasonably good day I can
> average double bogey on our local course of par-3's and 4's. So I'm bad,
> but not blindingly incompetent, as beginners go.
>
> I'm starting to feel a lot of pressure about my playing speed. In
> particular, one guy that I plays with tells me, a couple of times each
> round, that I am too slow. There are lots of ways in which I can benefit
> from a bit more time than someone who is more experienced:
>
> 1. Having a few more practice swings before each shot, since my swing is
> still nowhere near consistent. (Yes, I also put in time on the driving
> range.)
>
> 2. Pacing off pitches of 50-100 yards, since my eye isn't good for judging
> the distance.
>
> 3. Looking at putts from both sides of the green, since I'm not adept at
> reading breaks.
>
> 4. In some cases, simply finding my ball, since I hit more than my share of
> errant shots.
>
> What doesn't help is that our local course schedules tee times only eight
> minutes apart, so it tends to be completely jammed up during peak periods.
>
> I did some reading online, including on the USGA site, and the general
> message seems to be that everyone should play as quickly as they can,
> treating all time "on the clock" as a supreme inconvenience to the other
> players in the group and on the hole behind. More than one source says that
> the playing speed of pros on television should be ignored, because they have
> a lot of money at stake and so are entitled to be more thoughtful.
>
> I don't have professional aspirations, obviously, but how soon in one's
> development as a golfer is one entitled to think about what he's doing? I
> tried "speed golf" the last time out and could sort of do it, after taking
> the first few holes to adjust, but it certainly wasn't fun.
>
> More generally, how can I be confident that I'm playing quickly enough?
> Especially with the way our course is laid out, there will always be a big
> backup at certain holes, so going by the position of the groups ahead or
> behind isn't useful. What are some guidelines for beginners about how much
> time is allowed to prepare for shots?
>
> Thanks in advance.
I wouldn't change anything, necessarily.
Just do them all while others are playing their shots. When everyone
is waiting on you, be ready to hit.
And time yourself and your group. Playing speeds vary, at our
course if 18 holes takes more than 14 minutes per hole (4 hours
and 12 minutes total), then the person gets an earful. Actually the
pro will drive out and clear out the problem. No one plays slower
than that.
So, if you find you or your group falling behind a 14 minute per
hole pace (or whatever is the norm where you play), speed it
up. Less practice swings. NEVER pace off a pitch if everyone
is waiting for you. Watch your ball VERY carefully so you can
find it more quickly.
And have fun out there.
As already pointed out, you can get a rangefinder which will
get rid of the need to pace off any distances. One practice
swing is always enough. And to the extent possible, read
your putts while others are putting or preparing to putt.
The golf course is not a practice range.
-PA
|
| | |
Date: 24 Feb 2007 22:55:51
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
On 24 Feb 2007 06:46:56 -0800, "SKIPPER" <blakestah@gmail.com > wrote:
>The golf course is not a practice range.
Although Winter can allow it to be useful this way. In an empty
course, drop the ball in a hazard. Drop an extra ball 50 yards from
the green and chip it.
This is practice, which is against the rules as part of a regular golf
round, but it doesn't count anyway.
Of course if someone comes up behind you, let him play through or go
back to regular golf only.
|
| |
Date: 24 Feb 2007 05:46:21
From: Adam
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
I agree with most of the tips people have given, but here's one that
hasn't been mentioned yet. When I was starting out I often played with
just three clubs. The course I played didn't have any long forced
carries, so I would use a 7i, SW, and putter. This helped out in a lot
of different ways.
1. The biggest pace of play benefit was that I could hit way before
everyone else. Anytime the group ahead was more than 180 yards out or
so, I could hit. This meant that I was usually done before anyone else
could even hit. I'd go first off the tee, often while the group in
front was hitting their second shots because I had no chance of
reaching them. Also, most of the time when the rest of my group was
waiting for the green to clear, I could go ahead and hit since I
wasn't trying to reach it anyway.
2. I had a lot less to think about - it was a seven iron off virtually
every tee, and for just about every shot over 100 yards. Yardage was
irrelevant until I got within 150 yards or so. (faster club selection)
3. It made it nearly impossible for me to really lose a ball in the
woods - you just can't hit a seven iron into as much trouble as a
driver. (less search time)
4. It also made it easier to groove my swing during a round - almost
like a cross between a playing round and a driving range session.
(fewer duffed shots)
5. I learned a lot about strategy and the importance of keeping the
ball in play.
Within a year or so of taking up golf, I was able to play bogey golf
this way, and I could usually get around the course in about 2 - 2 1/2
hours when nobody was in front of me. I basically expected to take one
shot over regulation to get on the green and then average two putts.
As a bogey golfer, and certainly as a double-bogey golfer, you almost
never reach the green in regulation anyway. You might as well make
four good swings on a par five then a couple of good, a couple of bad,
plus a penalty stroke in the woods.
Adam
On Feb 23, 7:18 pm, "Eric Lindholm"
<blumberg.NO.lindholm.S...@verizon.net > wrote:
> I took up the game about six months ago, and on a reasonably good day I can
> average double bogey on our local course of par-3's and 4's. So I'm bad,
> but not blindingly incompetent, as beginners go.
>
> I'm starting to feel a lot of pressure about my playing speed. In
> particular, one guy that I plays with tells me, a couple of times each
> round, that I am too slow. There are lots of ways in which I can benefit
> from a bit more time than someone who is more experienced:
>
> 1. Having a few more practice swings before each shot, since my swing is
> still nowhere near consistent. (Yes, I also put in time on the driving
> range.)
>
> 2. Pacing off pitches of 50-100 yards, since my eye isn't good for judging
> the distance.
>
> 3. Looking at putts from both sides of the green, since I'm not adept at
> reading breaks.
>
> 4. In some cases, simply finding my ball, since I hit more than my share of
> errant shots.
>
> What doesn't help is that our local course schedules tee times only eight
> minutes apart, so it tends to be completely jammed up during peak periods.
>
> I did some reading online, including on the USGA site, and the general
> message seems to be that everyone should play as quickly as they can,
> treating all time "on the clock" as a supreme inconvenience to the other
> players in the group and on the hole behind. More than one source says that
> the playing speed of pros on television should be ignored, because they have
> a lot of money at stake and so are entitled to be more thoughtful.
>
> I don't have professional aspirations, obviously, but how soon in one's
> development as a golfer is one entitled to think about what he's doing? I
> tried "speed golf" the last time out and could sort of do it, after taking
> the first few holes to adjust, but it certainly wasn't fun.
>
> More generally, how can I be confident that I'm playing quickly enough?
> Especially with the way our course is laid out, there will always be a big
> backup at certain holes, so going by the position of the groups ahead or
> behind isn't useful. What are some guidelines for beginners about how much
> time is allowed to prepare for shots?
>
> Thanks in advance.
|
| | |
Date: 24 Feb 2007 15:41:41
From: Eric Lindholm
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
> When I was starting out I often played with
> just three clubs. The course I played didn't have any long forced
> carries, so I would use a 7i, SW, and putter. This helped out in a lot
> of different ways.
Thanks, I like this idea. I do something similar, using only a 5i, 7i, and
PW (and putter). The course has only one forced carry, and it's a big hill
I always plow into anyway, so it doesn't make any difference what I hit
there. I hit the 5 better than the 7 (I had to replace my 7 and this one
has always felt weird to me), so it's the right choice for me on longer
holes.
Once in a great while I'll use my 9i or 3w around the green -- the 9 because
it's very short (I have a very motley set of old used clubs) and thus easier
than the (longer!) PW for short pitches, and the 3w because a guy gave me a
lesson on running chips with it and it sort of works for me.
I never hesitate about which club to use once I get to the ball. If I can
see it on the way, I have plenty of time to think about it, and if I can't,
it's the wedge. I have practiced trying to hit the wedge to various
distances, and sometimes I'm pretty good at that, which is why I'd like to
know how long my pitches are, but I can do without that.
> 1. The biggest pace of play benefit was that I could hit way before
> everyone else. Anytime the group ahead was more than 180 yards out or
> so, I could hit.
I'll start suggesting that. We go by the usual honor system, and usually
that means I'm hitting last, but it would be better for everyone if I could
go first most of the time. That idea will go over well, I predict.
> 2. I had a lot less to think about - it was a seven iron off virtually
> every tee, and for just about every shot over 100 yards. Yardage was
> irrelevant until I got within 150 yards or so. (faster club selection)
Right, for me it's the weird stance shifts that I have to think about. The
ground is never flat.
> 5. I learned a lot about strategy and the importance of keeping the
> ball in play.
Sounds good.
> Within a year or so of taking up golf, I was able to play bogey golf
> this way, and I could usually get around the course in about 2 - 2 1/2
> hours when nobody was in front of me.
You must mean 18 holes, in which case I am impressed. That means I should
be able to play our short nine in an hour. I'll admit I'm a long way off
from that, although, even playing "slowly," I break two hours easily without
big delays on the tees.
> I basically expected to take one
> shot over regulation to get on the green and then average two putts.
Maybe I should try some different courses too. The greens on ours seem
tricky -- not just for me, but for everyone I play with. Two-putts are
definitely above-average achievements. Breaks of several feet are common,
even over intermediate distances (8-15 feet), and a couple of them have such
severe slopes that, if you wind up on the wrong side of the hole, the ball
is just going to keep accelerating as soon as you touch it. Obviously the
solution is not to wind up in the wrong part of the green, but if I were
that skilled, I wouldn't be a beginner.
Thanks for the supportive suggestions.
|
| |
Date: 24 Feb 2007 07:32:28
From: Martin Levac
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
"Eric Lindholm" <blumberg.NO.lindholm.SPAM@verizon.net > wrote in message
news:mvLDh.104$Tg7.35@trnddc03...
>I took up the game about six months ago, and on a reasonably good day I can
>average double bogey on our local course of par-3's and 4's. So I'm bad,
>but not blindingly incompetent, as beginners go.
>
> I'm starting to feel a lot of pressure about my playing speed. In
> particular, one guy that I plays with tells me, a couple of times each
> round, that I am too slow. There are lots of ways in which I can benefit
> from a bit more time than someone who is more experienced:
>
> 1. Having a few more practice swings before each shot, since my swing is
> still nowhere near consistent. (Yes, I also put in time on the driving
> range.)
>
> 2. Pacing off pitches of 50-100 yards, since my eye isn't good for judging
> the distance.
>
> 3. Looking at putts from both sides of the green, since I'm not adept at
> reading breaks.
>
> 4. In some cases, simply finding my ball, since I hit more than my share
> of errant shots.
>
> What doesn't help is that our local course schedules tee times only eight
> minutes apart, so it tends to be completely jammed up during peak periods.
>
> I did some reading online, including on the USGA site, and the general
> message seems to be that everyone should play as quickly as they can,
> treating all time "on the clock" as a supreme inconvenience to the other
> players in the group and on the hole behind. More than one source says
> that the playing speed of pros on television should be ignored, because
> they have a lot of money at stake and so are entitled to be more
> thoughtful.
>
> I don't have professional aspirations, obviously, but how soon in one's
> development as a golfer is one entitled to think about what he's doing? I
> tried "speed golf" the last time out and could sort of do it, after taking
> the first few holes to adjust, but it certainly wasn't fun.
>
> More generally, how can I be confident that I'm playing quickly enough?
> Especially with the way our course is laid out, there will always be a big
> backup at certain holes, so going by the position of the groups ahead or
> behind isn't useful. What are some guidelines for beginners about how
> much time is allowed to prepare for shots?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
There is one answer to all your questions.
Practice swings? Pacing distances? Reading greens? Searching for lost balls?
Practice.
The purpose of golf is to send a ball to a target using a club. At the
range, practice sending a ball to the targets using the clubs you will most
frequently encounter and use on the course. On the practice chipping green,
practice sending the ball on the practice chipping green at distances you
will frequently encounter on the course. On the practice putting green,
practice sending the ball in the hole from distances and lies you will
frequently encounter on the course. Searching for your lost ball will become
rare after all this practice.
The more you practice, the better you become at it, the quicker you can do
it.
|
| |
Date: 23 Feb 2007 19:41:41
From: Thor
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
On Feb 23, 9:29 pm, "Eric Lindholm"
<blumberg.NO.lindholm.S...@verizon.net > wrote:
> Thanks for the responses. No, I'm not a troll.
>
> Pacing off pitches is out, got it. Circling the green looking at different
> angles is out, got it. Practice swings are out, got it.
>
> I'm in my 30s, so I walk. Usually, if my ball is ahead of my partners',
> I'll stay behind or off to the side of their shots rather than go
> immediately to my ball (assuming I already know where it is). But of course
> that means a walking delay after they hit, so I can change that too.
Please, I beg you - Do NOT! There is no reason to risk injury!!
The most important thing to do to play faster is to be
ready to hit when it is your turn and to *know* when it
is your turn.
Actually, that is untrue. The *most* important thing
you already have - you *care*. Congratulations!
So you are guaranteed to improve your speed! My
recommendations:
Watch fast players. See what they do. Simple
things like putting your bag on the side of the
green where you walk toward the next hole.
I think practice should be done on the range. You
will almost certainly play *better* as well as faster
if you just develop a quick routine and do it on every
shot.
I think you have it backwards. The professional does
gain by looking at putts from all angles - but they know
what they are looking for! You do not. Concentrate on
speed - hit it with the right weight and the next putt is
a tap-in.
Same thing for lots of pacing - you don't hit it that
accurately. If you know your yardage within 10 yards,
you are ready. Also, as a walker you have an advantage
that you can see the sprinkler or yardage ker as
you pass it and start counting.
Just golf - you should be hitting, waiting for others in your
group, or walking.
> I have to say I'm a bit taken aback by the hostility of some of the
> responses. The common theme is to tell me to play better (thanks, I'll work
> on that) or castigate me for not already knowing the answers. I'm beginning
> to see why this sport has such a stuffy, exclusive reputation. And before
> anyone says, "If you don't like it, you don't have to play" -- yes, I
> understand what my options are.
I would suggest you not judge all golfers by this usenet
group. Hostility is the norm here these days, unfortunately. It
breaks my heart.
Your attitude is directionally correct. You are on the right track.
Above all - Enjoy The Gemme.
> Nonetheless, thanks for taking the time to respond. I will take all of the
> recommendations to heart, since my questions were sincere.
|
| | |
Date: 24 Feb 2007 05:04:18
From: Eric Lindholm
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
> Please, I beg you - Do NOT! There is no reason to risk injury!!
Well, I could always turn around and pay attention when they actually hit,
but I know what you mean.
> I think practice should be done on the range. You
> will almost certainly play *better* as well as faster
> if you just develop a quick routine and do it on every
> shot.
The problem I'm having is that shots on the course are a lot more varied
than they are on the range, particularly with respect to my stance. Most of
the course (even what passes for the fairways -- heck, even the tee boxes)
is pretty uneven, so I'm constantly trying to make adjustments for the
different relationship between my feet and the ball. I probably should
start taking small boards or pieces of carpet to the range and practice
standing on them in different combinations.
Also, some things are hard to practice, like hitting out of a half-filled
burrowing hole in front of a big tuft of firm grass, as I unsuccessfully
tried to do last time. I might have given myself a better chance for
success if I had not been in such a hurry.
> I think you have it backwards. The professional does
> gain by looking at putts from all angles - but they know
> what they are looking for! You do not.
Actually, putting is one of the better parts of my game, once I finally find
the line. I usually make up several shots on the green versus my similarly
skilled competitors. I'm not claiming to be expert at it, of course, but I
do think the different viewing angles help me. Or "used to help," I should
say.
> Also, as a walker you have an advantage
> that you can see the sprinkler or yardage ker as
> you pass it and start counting.
There's no yardage book for the course and I've never seen sprinkler heads
(it sort of has the look of a links-style course, but I'm sure sprinklers
must be out there somewhere). Each hole has only a couple of yardage
kers, so there aren't a lot of hints. Maybe I should use a range finder
until I gain more confidence estimating the distances.
> I would suggest you not judge all golfers by this usenet
> group.
Okay, thanks. I should note that I received some polite responses too. But
whether polite or hostile, everyone agrees that I need to play a hell of a
lot faster, so I will.
|
| | | |
Date: 26 Feb 2007 14:45:36
From: Mark Myers
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 05:04:18 GMT, Eric Lindholm said...
> > Thor wrote ...
> > Please, I beg you - Do NOT! There is no reason to risk injury!!
>
> Well, I could always turn around and pay attention when they actually hit,
> but I know what you mean.
Once you've seen a couple of guys with their head bleeding you will know
even more. Just be thinking about what you're going to do next while you
wait.
> Also, some things are hard to practice, like hitting out of a half-filled
> burrowing hole in front of a big tuft of firm grass, as I unsuccessfully
> tried to do last time. I might have given myself a better chance for
> success if I had not been in such a hurry.
Manufacturing unusual shots is a skill that won't come straight away.
Just try your best and you will find an improvement eventually. However,
since no-one else has mentioned this, why didn't you get a free drop
from the 'burrowing hole'? (Rule 25-1)
http://www.usga.org/playing/rules/rules_of_golf.html
Also, someone recommended reading Bob Rotella's Golf Is Not A Game Of
Perfect, and I second that recommendation. It's a great read whatever
your ability.
--
k Myers
usenet2 at mcm2002 dot f9 dot co dot uk
I have all the specs and diagrams at home.
|
| | | |
Date: 25 Feb 2007 19:51:53
From: Tom K
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
"Eric Lindholm" <blumberg.NO.lindholm.SPAM@verizon.net > wrote in message
news:mHPDh.204$QI4.130@trnddc01...
>>
>
> Also, some things are hard to practice, like hitting out of a half-filled
> burrowing hole in front of a big tuft of firm grass, as I unsuccessfully
> tried to do last time. I might have given myself a better chance for
> success if I had not been in such a hurry.
>
Let me comment on your point about being in a hurry.
If you have everything thought through when you're ready to hit... standing
over the ball motionless simple allows your muscles to freeze. That AIN'T
good.
When you go up to the ball, and take your address, there shouldn't be any
long delays at that point. Watch the pros. They don't stand there and
freeze up.
Give yourself time to figure out what you want to do away from the ball (as
when others are hitting). But once over the ball, don't delay.
Get up, go through your routine, and swing. That's not hurrying. That's
keeping your muscles from freezing up.
--Tom
|
| | | | |
Date: 27 Feb 2007 18:01:06
From: bill-o
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
On 25-Feb-2007, "Tom K" <tkanitra@optonline.net > wrote:
> If you have everything thought through when you're ready to hit...
> standing
> over the ball motionless simple allows your muscles to freeze. That AIN'T
> good.
Add to this the fact that more time over the ball gives those nasty negative
thoughts to pop into your head and it is a recipe for disaster.
--
bill-o
A "gimme" can best be defined as an agreement between
two golfers neither of whom can putt very well.
|
| | | |
Date: 24 Feb 2007 15:04:35
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 05:04:18 GMT, "Eric Lindholm"
<blumberg.NO.lindholm.SPAM@verizon.net > wrote:
>The problem I'm having is that shots on the course are a lot more varied
>than they are on the range, particularly with respect to my stance. Most of
>the course (even what passes for the fairways -- heck, even the tee boxes)
>is pretty uneven, so I'm constantly trying to make adjustments for the
>different relationship between my feet and the ball. I probably should
>start taking small boards or pieces of carpet to the range and practice
>standing on them in different combinations.
Every once in a while, I see a range where today's hitting area
includes a slope. The people avoid that like the plague. I infer
that despite appearances, they are so good that their balls will never
land on a sloped surface.
|
| |
Date: 23 Feb 2007 21:05:59
From: Zuke
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
On Sat, 24 Feb 2007, Eric Lindholm wrote:
> I took up the game about six months ago, and on a reasonably good day I can
> average double bogey on our local course of par-3's and 4's. So I'm bad,
> but not blindingly incompetent, as beginners go.
>
> I'm starting to feel a lot of pressure about my playing speed. In
> particular, one guy that I plays with tells me, a couple of times each
> round, that I am too slow. There are lots of ways in which I can benefit
> from a bit more time than someone who is more experienced:
>
> 1. Having a few more practice swings before each shot, since my swing is
> still nowhere near consistent. (Yes, I also put in time on the driving
> range.)
>
> 2. Pacing off pitches of 50-100 yards, since my eye isn't good for judging
> the distance.
>
> 3. Looking at putts from both sides of the green, since I'm not adept at
> reading breaks.
>
You are lucky somebody hasn't clobbered you on the side of the head
with a club. Pacing off 100 yard pitches. Taking multiple practice
swings. You are thinking way too much. It's a game.
I got a kick out of this though as I am about 80% sure it's a troll.
If not a troll, I'd say you'd better get used to playing alone
or take up fishing where the only thing you are holding up are
the fish.
|
| | |
Date: 24 Feb 2007 19:40:57
From: Zuke
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
On Sat, 24 Feb 2007, Eric Lindholm wrote:
> Thanks for the responses. No, I'm not a troll.
>
> Pacing off pitches is out, got it. Circling the green looking at different
> angles is out, got it. Practice swings are out, got it.
>
> I'm in my 30s, so I walk. Usually, if my ball is ahead of my partners',
> I'll stay behind or off to the side of their shots rather than go
> immediately to my ball (assuming I already know where it is). But of course
> that means a walking delay after they hit, so I can change that too.
>
> As far as the lost ball thing goes, there are a few spots on the local
> course where the ball can dip behind a series of weirdly sloping hills but
> is still in bounds. On one hole in particular, any tee shot that's a bit
> left is going to take a bunch of weird rolls out of sight, and there's a
> fair amount of brush that can make searching slow. That's the main place I
> was thinking of, now that I think about it. Yes, I do use bright yellow
> balls and carry extras, but I won't hit a provisional when I'm confident my
> original is still in play.
>
> I have to say I'm a bit taken aback by the hostility of some of the
> responses. The common theme is to tell me to play better (thanks, I'll work
> on that) or castigate me for not already knowing the answers. I'm beginning
> to see why this sport has such a stuffy, exclusive reputation. And before
> anyone says, "If you don't like it, you don't have to play" -- yes, I
> understand what my options are.
>
I castigated you as a troll so I apologize. However, I wasn't being
stuffy or exclusive. On the contrary, I was encouraging you to play
faster and quit worrying so much about your own game that your playing
partner is forced to tell you twice you are playing so slow. That's
not stuffy, that's thinking about your fellow golfer and encouraging
companionship. At our level of play, the interaction with your fellow
golfers is the best thing we can take from the game. Believe me,
even if you become a scratch golfer, very few people are going to
care. However if you get in with a good group of fellow golfers and
enjoy the exercise you will be a hundred times further along.
I just take fast play skills for granted and I probably shouldn't as
it is something newer golfers have to learn. As other posters say,
as long as you are ready to hit when it's your turn you can do all
of those other preparations to your heart's content.
As for staying at your fellow competitor's ball until he hits, I would
say unless you are so far ahead and in his line of sight or line
of play you can go to your ball and get ready to play by looking
at your lie, determining distance, angle, etc. I'd be more reluctant
to move ahead of him if I am on his right instead of his left as
right is more line of sight plus in target range for the dreaded
shank.
> Nonetheless, thanks for taking the time to respond. I will take all of the
> recommendations to heart, since my questions were sincere.
>
>
>
|
| | | |
Date: 28 Feb 2007 15:03:00
From: David
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 19:40:57 -0500, Zuke <me@privacy.net > wrote:
>On Sat, 24 Feb 2007, Eric Lindholm wrote:
<snipped >
>As for staying at your fellow competitor's ball until he hits, I would
>say unless you are so far ahead and in his line of sight or line
>of play you can go to your ball and get ready to play by looking
>at your lie, determining distance, angle, etc. I'd be more reluctant
>to move ahead of him if I am on his right instead of his left as
>right is more line of sight plus in target range for the dreaded
>shank.
Unless you are very confident of your fellow players abilities, I
can not strongly enough stress that you should not get ahead of them
when they are hitting. When I was 8 years old, I got hit in the
middle of my forehead by doing this and I learned my lesson very
quickly. It was dangerous enough that I am lucky to be alive today.
David
|
| | |
Date: 24 Feb 2007 02:29:02
From: Eric Lindholm
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
Thanks for the responses. No, I'm not a troll.
Pacing off pitches is out, got it. Circling the green looking at different
angles is out, got it. Practice swings are out, got it.
I'm in my 30s, so I walk. Usually, if my ball is ahead of my partners',
I'll stay behind or off to the side of their shots rather than go
immediately to my ball (assuming I already know where it is). But of course
that means a walking delay after they hit, so I can change that too.
As far as the lost ball thing goes, there are a few spots on the local
course where the ball can dip behind a series of weirdly sloping hills but
is still in bounds. On one hole in particular, any tee shot that's a bit
left is going to take a bunch of weird rolls out of sight, and there's a
fair amount of brush that can make searching slow. That's the main place I
was thinking of, now that I think about it. Yes, I do use bright yellow
balls and carry extras, but I won't hit a provisional when I'm confident my
original is still in play.
I have to say I'm a bit taken aback by the hostility of some of the
responses. The common theme is to tell me to play better (thanks, I'll work
on that) or castigate me for not already knowing the answers. I'm beginning
to see why this sport has such a stuffy, exclusive reputation. And before
anyone says, "If you don't like it, you don't have to play" -- yes, I
understand what my options are.
Nonetheless, thanks for taking the time to respond. I will take all of the
recommendations to heart, since my questions were sincere.
|
| | | |
Date: 28 Feb 2007 14:56:36
From: David
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 02:29:02 GMT, "Eric Lindholm"
<blumberg.NO.lindholm.SPAM@verizon.net > wrote:
>Thanks for the responses. No, I'm not a troll.
>
>Pacing off pitches is out, got it. Circling the green looking at different
>angles is out, got it. Practice swings are out, got it.
Pacing off these pitch shots does not make sense, since you more
than likely do not have the skill to hit the shot the distance you
need to hit it anyway.
I consider myself to be an excellent putter, as do the players who
play with me on a regular basis, and the only line I take on the putt
is from behind the ball and at the cup. Why at the cup? Because when
you play golf in Florida, you know that the grain will have a huge
effect on the putt and by looking at the grass around the cup, you can
see the direction that the grass is laying down.
Practice swings are okay if you are not tkaing 10 practice swings
everytime. One, or two, to loosen up before making the swing are
fine.
>I'm in my 30s, so I walk. Usually, if my ball is ahead of my partners',
>I'll stay behind or off to the side of their shots rather than go
>immediately to my ball (assuming I already know where it is). But of course
>that means a walking delay after they hit, so I can change that too.
Walking by no means infers slow play. My home course palys to
approximately 7000 yards. We only walk and the average round takes
about 4 hours. Personally, I can live with anything up to 4.5 hours
as being reasonable. If it is taking longer than that, then there is
a problem.
>As far as the lost ball thing goes, there are a few spots on the local
>course where the ball can dip behind a series of weirdly sloping hills but
>is still in bounds. On one hole in particular, any tee shot that's a bit
>left is going to take a bunch of weird rolls out of sight, and there's a
>fair amount of brush that can make searching slow. That's the main place I
>was thinking of, now that I think about it. Yes, I do use bright yellow
>balls and carry extras, but I won't hit a provisional when I'm confident my
>original is still in play.
If you suspect that your ball will be difficult, if not impossible
to find, you need to hit a provisional ball. Even if you are
condifent that your ball is still in play--only means that it is not
in a water hazard, or out of bounds--, yet you think that it may be
difficult to find the ball, then a provisional ball should be
mandatory. You only have five minutes to look for your ball--yes,
this is a rule in golf.
>I have to say I'm a bit taken aback by the hostility of some of the
>responses. The common theme is to tell me to play better (thanks, I'll work
>on that) or castigate me for not already knowing the answers. I'm beginning
>to see why this sport has such a stuffy, exclusive reputation. And before
>anyone says, "If you don't like it, you don't have to play" -- yes, I
>understand what my options are.
Well, you lost everyone when you stated that from 100 yards and in
you are walking off the distance. This got my goat, as well, when I
read it. Lining up your putts from different angles when it is
already your turn to putt is also not going to make you and new
friends. If you cannot roll your ball over a spot that you pick out
on the green, then lining up your putt from different angles will not
help you.
You are one of those newbie golfers who watches too many
professional events on television. The pros are not great golfers
because they take so long. They are great because they have hit
hunderd's of thousand's of ball, and spent an immeasurable time
working on their short game.
There are certain pros who you could never get me to play a round of
golf with, because they are so god-awful slow. If I had to play a
round of golf with Jim Furyk, I would consider suicide a viable
option, for example.
>Nonetheless, thanks for taking the time to respond. I will take all of the
>recommendations to heart, since my questions were sincere.
My answers were sincere, as well.
David
|
| | | |
Date: 23 Feb 2007 22:47:40
From: IcUrdazedandconfused
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 02:29:02 GMT, "Eric Lindholm"
<blumberg.NO.lindholm.SPAM@verizon.net > wrote:
>Thanks for the responses. No, I'm not a troll.
>
>Pacing off pitches is out, got it. Circling the green looking at different
>angles is out, got it. Practice swings are out, got it.
>
>I'm in my 30s, so I walk. Usually, if my ball is ahead of my partners',
>I'll stay behind or off to the side of their shots rather than go
>immediately to my ball (assuming I already know where it is). But of course
>that means a walking delay after they hit, so I can change that too.
>
>As far as the lost ball thing goes, there are a few spots on the local
>course where the ball can dip behind a series of weirdly sloping hills but
>is still in bounds. On one hole in particular, any tee shot that's a bit
>left is going to take a bunch of weird rolls out of sight, and there's a
>fair amount of brush that can make searching slow. That's the main place I
>was thinking of, now that I think about it. Yes, I do use bright yellow
>balls and carry extras, but I won't hit a provisional when I'm confident my
>original is still in play.
You know, for casual rounds, if you think you had a reasonable idea
that the ball was ok, don't hit a provisional. IF you don't find it,
big deal, drop, take a stroke and move on. Also, if there are folks
behind pushing you, look for it for 30 seconds as a max, and go on...
>
>I have to say I'm a bit taken aback by the hostility of some of the
>responses. The common theme is to tell me to play better (thanks, I'll work
>on that) or castigate me for not already knowing the answers. I'm beginning
>to see why this sport has such a stuffy, exclusive reputation. And before
>anyone says, "If you don't like it, you don't have to play" -- yes, I
>understand what my options are.
Don't get too focused on the "hostility". Most all the guys here are
good guys, and you would enjoy playing with them.
>
>Nonetheless, thanks for taking the time to respond. I will take all of the
>recommendations to heart, since my questions were sincere.
Welcome to the group and to the game that most of us have found to be
the most addictive we have ever tried!
|
| | | | |
Date: 24 Feb 2007 15:06:54
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 22:47:40 -0500, IcUrdazedandconfused
<IcUrdazed@confused.net > wrote:
>You know, for casual rounds, if you think you had a reasonable idea
>that the ball was ok, don't hit a provisional. IF you don't find it,
>big deal, drop, take a stroke and move on. Also, if there are folks
>behind pushing you, look for it for 30 seconds as a max, and go on...
Yep. But for your casual scoring - add two strokes to your score,
one for stroke and one for distance. And it isn't a bad idea to say
out-loud whenever you do anything that's against the Rules of Golf. If
you do this, it is less likely for you to forget when you are playing
for real.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 24 Feb 2007 16:21:46
From: Eric Lindholm
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
Speaking of the rules, maybe someone can help me with this question:
Our course has only two bunkers, so usually I don't think about them. But I
found one recently, I had a big lip to get over, and the sand was very soft.
I had just read the rules about all of the things that are prohibited in
hazards, so I was pretty psyched out about everything that I wasn't allowed
to do. The result was that I couldn't make any kind of a shot to get the
ball out. After a few attempts, I could tell it was a losing battle, so I
just wanted to admit defeat and move on. But no one had a suggestion for
what penalty I should take for dropping out of the bunker -- from what I
read, once I make my first attempt to hit from it, I'm stuck there. I tried
a few more times (quickly, since people were waiting) and then just picked
up and went to the next tee with no score. What should I have done, besides
the obvious answer of being better at bunker shots before finding myself in
that predicament?
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 24 Feb 2007 22:48:19
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
A couple of points:
If you walk up to the ball and decide there's no way you can get it
out, you can take a stroke and distance penalty and re-hit the
previous shot.
The USGA handicap rules allow you to pick up your ball - after all,
that's what happens when you concede a hole in match play. Their
instructions are to guess what your eventual score would be for the
hole - and then when you enter your score in the handicap computer, do
not enter any score higher than your ESC score.
If you are a rank beginner, you probably don't have a handicap.
Here's a link explaining how ESC works (Different countries work
handicaps differently):
http://www.pgaprofessional.com/handicap.html
You can use that to estimate your handicap, or you can e-mail me and I
will send you an Excel spreadsheet to calculate your handicap if you
don't want to pay a local course around $40 for your annual handicap
tracking. My area keeps handicaps from April through October.
Don't score higher than your ESC, that is sandbagging (making your
handicap too large, which gives you an advantage in competition).
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 24 Feb 2007 18:07:20
From: John van der Pflum
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 22:48:19 GMT, Howard Brazee <howard@brazee.net >
wrote:
>A couple of points:
>
>If you walk up to the ball and decide there's no way you can get it
>out, you can take a stroke and distance penalty and re-hit the
>previous shot.
>
Yeah, but Howard, if the issue is that he is playing slow the last
thing he should do is walk all the way back and re-hit. If anything
he should just take an unplayable lie and drop.
--
jvdp
Start clearing your calendars
http://www.rsgcincinnati.com
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 25 Feb 2007 00:42:45
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 18:07:20 -0500, John van der Pflum
<nowhammymyspammy@bite.org > wrote:
>>If you walk up to the ball and decide there's no way you can get it
>>out, you can take a stroke and distance penalty and re-hit the
>>previous shot.
>>
>
>Yeah, but Howard, if the issue is that he is playing slow the last
>thing he should do is walk all the way back and re-hit. If anything
>he should just take an unplayable lie and drop.
In that case, follow my earlier suggestion and fake it. Drop the
ball beside the trap, add two strokes, and tell your partners that
"yes, I know this isn't real golf - but nobody needs to watch me hit
50 strokes to get out".
|
| | | | | | | | | |
Date: 24 Feb 2007 22:09:50
From: John van der Pflum
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 00:42:45 GMT, Howard Brazee <howard@brazee.net >
wrote:
>On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 18:07:20 -0500, John van der Pflum
><nowhammymyspammy@bite.org> wrote:
>
>>>If you walk up to the ball and decide there's no way you can get it
>>>out, you can take a stroke and distance penalty and re-hit the
>>>previous shot.
>>>
>>
>>Yeah, but Howard, if the issue is that he is playing slow the last
>>thing he should do is walk all the way back and re-hit. If anything
>>he should just take an unplayable lie and drop.
>
>In that case, follow my earlier suggestion and fake it. Drop the
>ball beside the trap, add two strokes, and tell your partners that
>"yes, I know this isn't real golf - but nobody needs to watch me hit
>50 strokes to get out".
Sorry -- I may have missed part of your post. I ASSumed that you were
talking about the ball being in a crappy lie in the rough and not in a
bunker.
--
jvdp
Start clearing your calendars
http://www.rsgcincinnati.com
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 24 Feb 2007 10:44:50
From: Aress Gee
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
"Eric Lindholm" <blumberg.NO.lindholm.SPAM@verizon.net > writes:
> Speaking of the rules, maybe someone can help me with this question:
>
> Our course has only two bunkers, so usually I don't think about them. But I
> found one recently, I had a big lip to get over, and the sand was very soft.
> I had just read the rules about all of the things that are prohibited in
> hazards, so I was pretty psyched out about everything that I wasn't allowed
> to do. The result was that I couldn't make any kind of a shot to get the
> ball out. After a few attempts, I could tell it was a losing battle, so I
> just wanted to admit defeat and move on. But no one had a suggestion for
> what penalty I should take for dropping out of the bunker -- from what I
> read, once I make my first attempt to hit from it, I'm stuck there. I tried
> a few more times (quickly, since people were waiting) and then just picked
> up and went to the next tee with no score. What should I have done, besides
> the obvious answer of being better at bunker shots before finding myself in
> that predicament?
Once you have made a stroke from within the bunker, Rule 28 (Ball Unplayable)
is incapable of getting you out of the bunker regardless of the number of
penalty strokes you would be willing to incur.
If there were an immovable obstruction within your bunker (stairs, a drain etc.)
then you could get out via 24-2b(ii)(b) and its one stroke penalty provided you
could play the ball into a position where you have interference from that immovable
obstruction. Likewise if there was an abnormal ground condition within the
bunker and you could play the ball into a position where you had interference
from that condition then see Rule 25-1b(ii)(b).
As a beginner, you should probably avoid forms of play (such as 'regular' stroke
play) that require you to hole out on every hole. You might consider bogey,
par, or Stableford (Rule 32) as an alternative.
--
+++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Mr. People who use golf as some sort of status
Aress symbol are destined to go unfulfilled.
Gee -- Golf's Most Beloved Figure
+++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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Date: 24 Feb 2007 11:33:37
From: Otto
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
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"Eric Lindholm" <blumberg.NO.lindholm.SPAM@verizon.net > wrote in message
news:uCZDh.826$kr6.763@trndny09...
> Speaking of the rules, maybe someone can help me with this question:
>
> Our course has only two bunkers, so usually I don't think about them. But
I
> found one recently, I had a big lip to get over, and the sand was very
soft.
> I had just read the rules about all of the things that are prohibited in
> hazards, so I was pretty psyched out about everything that I wasn't
allowed
> to do. The result was that I couldn't make any kind of a shot to get the
> ball out. After a few attempts, I could tell it was a losing battle, so I
> just wanted to admit defeat and move on. But no one had a suggestion for
> what penalty I should take for dropping out of the bunker -- from what I
> read, once I make my first attempt to hit from it, I'm stuck there. I
tried
> a few more times (quickly, since people were waiting) and then just picked
> up and went to the next tee with no score. What should I have done,
besides
> the obvious answer of being better at bunker shots before finding myself
in
> that predicament?
It sort of depends how much pain you want to endure. The real question
is--when do you pick up for the hole?
If you are recording scores for a Usga handicap and your handicp is 40 or
over, equitable stroke control(Esc) will only allow you to post a 10. Many
who participate in handicap systems use this as their "pick up the ball"
point.
A discussion on Esc is here:
http://golf.about.com/cs/handicapping/a/whatisesc.htm
If you simply want to measure yourself for personal reasons, then a good
answer is to simply play the ball until it is in the hole. I would temper
this with the original question--speed of play. There is a point where you
should feel not quite right about holding up the entire course. This can be
painful but the next time you get in and out of the trap in only a stroke or
two your measurement will change. The painful experience of being stuck in a
trap should also motivate you to practice your bunker play. Bunker play is
actually one of the easier tasks to achieve some proficiency in.
Either way, when you finish your excursion in the bunker, please rake the
area smooth.
Otto
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Date: 24 Feb 2007 17:12:41
From: Eric Lindholm
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
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> If you are recording scores for a Usga handicap and your handicp is 40 or
> over, equitable stroke control(Esc) will only allow you to post a 10. Many
> who participate in handicap systems use this as their "pick up the ball"
> point.
That's good to know. Maybe I should, for my own purposes, use 12 as a
forfeit, since once in a while I'll get a 10 even without any particular
major catastrophe. Well, actually that hasn't happened for a while now,
knock on wood...
> The painful experience of being stuck in a
> trap should also motivate you to practice your bunker play. Bunker play is
> actually one of the easier tasks to achieve some proficiency in.
Oh, don't worry, I was plenty motivated to practice bunkers after that
humiliation.
> Either way, when you finish your excursion in the bunker, please rake the
> area smooth.
Right, I forgot to mention that, but I did rake it.
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Date: 25 Feb 2007 19:56:26
From: Tom K
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
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"Eric Lindholm" <blumberg.NO.lindholm.SPAM@verizon.net > wrote in message
news:dm_Dh.232$KE2.106@trnddc06...
>> If you are recording scores for a Usga handicap and your handicp is 40 or
>> over, equitable stroke control(Esc) will only allow you to post a 10.
>> Many
>> who participate in handicap systems use this as their "pick up the ball"
>> point.
>
> That's good to know. Maybe I should, for my own purposes, use 12 as a
> forfeit, since once in a while I'll get a 10 even without any particular
> major catastrophe. Well, actually that hasn't happened for a while now,
> knock on wood...
>
>> The painful experience of being stuck in a
>> trap should also motivate you to practice your bunker play. Bunker play
>> is
>> actually one of the easier tasks to achieve some proficiency in.
>
> Oh, don't worry, I was plenty motivated to practice bunkers after that
> humiliation.
Practicing bunkers vs. having someone who knows what they're doing (such as
a pro or low handicapper) SHOW you are 2 different things. Practicing doing
it wrong only reinforces a bad mechanics.
--Tom
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Date: 24 Feb 2007 02:54:37
From: bruce
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
nothing is more frustrating than seeing a group in front, where someone is
playing very slow.
always be ready, even if you are waiting for some one to hit, and your ball
is farther up the fairway, look for the sprinkler heads, or 50, 100, 150
kers, so you know approxiamately how far you are away from the green, so
you can narrow your choice selection of clubs.
as been a beginner to golf, if you can't hit the green in 2 shots, you
should try to lay up to a point where you know how far away you are from the
green. example if you are playing a par 5, 480 yards long and your hit your
drive 230, that leaves 250 left, you will never get there in 2 shots, so if
you know that your pitching wedge goes 100 yards, then use what ever club
you have that will go about 150 yards, always better to hit a shot with a
full swing than try to hit a 3/4 shot.
go to the practice greens and pratice hitting putts, from different angles,
and distances, so you can learn to read the greens better, and the speed
better.
as for errand balls, the rest of the guys in your 4 some should help out, 4
guys looking for a ball is better than one.
practise swing are ok as long as it is only a couple.
if you know you are slower then the rest try to walk to your ball a bit
faster, and i don't mean run.
if you are equal or close distance away with another player, and he hits
1st, while he is getting preapared, picking his club, etc, you should be
doing the same. nothing wrong with asking other in your group to tell you
distance away.
Bruce
bruce
"Eric Lindholm" <blumberg.NO.lindholm.SPAM@verizon.net > wrote in message
news:OpNDh.65$854.5@trnddc04...
> Thanks for the responses. No, I'm not a troll.
>
> Pacing off pitches is out, got it. Circling the green looking at
> different angles is out, got it. Practice swings are out, got it.
>
> I'm in my 30s, so I walk. Usually, if my ball is ahead of my partners',
> I'll stay behind or off to the side of their shots rather than go
> immediately to my ball (assuming I already know where it is). But of
> course that means a walking delay after they hit, so I can change that
> too.
>
> As far as the lost ball thing goes, there are a few spots on the local
> course where the ball can dip behind a series of weirdly sloping hills but
> is still in bounds. On one hole in particular, any tee shot that's a bit
> left is going to take a bunch of weird rolls out of sight, and there's a
> fair amount of brush that can make searching slow. That's the main place
> I was thinking of, now that I think about it. Yes, I do use bright yellow
> balls and carry extras, but I won't hit a provisional when I'm confident
> my original is still in play.
>
> I have to say I'm a bit taken aback by the hostility of some of the
> responses. The common theme is to tell me to play better (thanks, I'll
> work on that) or castigate me for not already knowing the answers. I'm
> beginning to see why this sport has such a stuffy, exclusive reputation.
> And before anyone says, "If you don't like it, you don't have to play" --
> yes, I understand what my options are.
>
> Nonetheless, thanks for taking the time to respond. I will take all of
> the recommendations to heart, since my questions were sincere.
>
>
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Date: 23 Feb 2007 20:52:25
From: Otto
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
"Eric Lindholm" <blumberg.NO.lindholm.SPAM@verizon.net > wrote in message
news:mvLDh.104$Tg7.35@trnddc03...
> 1. Having a few more practice swings before each shot, since my swing is
> still nowhere near consistent. (Yes, I also put in time on the driving
> range.)
1 is enough. 2 should be max. Save the practice for the days when no on else
is on the course or take it to the range.
> 2. Pacing off pitches of 50-100 yards, since my eye isn't good for judging
> the distance.
Buy a rangefinder or a Skycaddy. Pacing off these kinds of yardage while
others wait is inconsiderate.
> 3. Looking at putts from both sides of the green, since I'm not adept at
> reading breaks.
If you do this while others are taking their turns you can get it done
without much delay. If it is your turn, speeding up other areas of your
game(fewer practice swings) will give you time here.
> 4. In some cases, simply finding my ball, since I hit more than my share
of
> errant shots.
First of all, watch where your ball stops and site a landk so you don't
hunt in the wrong area. Beginners tend to not follow their ball or site the
end point properly. You might also consider the brightly colored balls.
Secondly, limit your search time. A minute or less.
Thirdly, carry at least two extra balls on your person so when you hit that
probable out of bounder or have lost a ball, you can immediately tee up the
provisional/replacement.
> What doesn't help is that our local course schedules tee times only eight
> minutes apart, so it tends to be completely jammed up during peak periods.
Normal interval.
> I don't have professional aspirations, obviously, but how soon in one's
> development as a golfer is one entitled to think about what he's doing?
There is plenty of time between shots to think about it.
> I
> tried "speed golf" the last time out and could sort of do it, after taking
> the first few holes to adjust, but it certainly wasn't fun.
You can play a very comfortable pace, have plenty of time for a preshot
routine, and still be timely.
> More generally, how can I be confident that I'm playing quickly enough?
Look in front of you. Is the next hole open? Now look behind you. Is there a
group waiting for you? If you answer yes to both questions, you are playing
too slow.
> Especially with the way our course is laid out, there will always be a big
> backup at certain holes, so going by the position of the groups ahead or
> behind isn't useful.
I disagree. If that hole in front of you is open, you are playing too slow
if people are waiting behind you.
> What are some guidelines for beginners about how much
> time is allowed to prepare for shots?
As much time as you want as long as the hole in front of you is not open
while people behind you wait.
In other words, if the ice pellets are falling and you are the only person
on the course, play as slow as you want.
If the hole ahead of you is open and people are waiting for you, and you
don't want to speed up--fine. Let the faster groups play through. The other
option is to skip a hole or two to open up the holes behind you until the
faster groups catch up.
Hth.
Otto
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Date: 24 Feb 2007 01:20:43
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 00:18:26 GMT, "Eric Lindholm"
<blumberg.NO.lindholm.SPAM@verizon.net > wrote:
>I'm starting to feel a lot of pressure about my playing speed. In
>particular, one guy that I plays with tells me, a couple of times each
>round, that I am too slow. There are lots of ways in which I can benefit
>from a bit more time than someone who is more experienced:
I'm not good - but maybe I'm close enough to you to remember what
you're going through.
>1. Having a few more practice swings before each shot, since my swing is
>still nowhere near consistent. (Yes, I also put in time on the driving
>range.)
I've never seen this work. One thing that does help is to make sure
you go through the exact same routine on the range and on the course.
The longer the routine though, the greater the opportunity for you to
start thinking your way to a bad shot.
>2. Pacing off pitches of 50-100 yards, since my eye isn't good for judging
>the distance.
What good is it to know how many yards away you are - you will still
need to pitch by feel. Spend more time on the chipping green - it
will pay big dividends. (and never stop).
>3. Looking at putts from both sides of the green, since I'm not adept at
>reading breaks.
Good idea. Get to the green first so you have the time without
slowing down others.
>4. In some cases, simply finding my ball, since I hit more than my share of
>errant shots.
Do you walk or ride? Do you see the ball go into the crap?
Experience helps a lot here - I've been getting better and better at
finding my errant balls.
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Date: 23 Feb 2007 21:10:49
From: Zuke
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
On Sat, 24 Feb 2007, Howard Brazee wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 00:18:26 GMT, "Eric Lindholm"
> <blumberg.NO.lindholm.SPAM@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> I'm starting to feel a lot of pressure about my playing speed. In
>> particular, one guy that I plays with tells me, a couple of times each
>> round, that I am too slow. There are lots of ways in which I can benefit
>> from a bit more time than someone who is more experienced:
>
> I'm not good - but maybe I'm close enough to you to remember what
> you're going through.
>
>> 1. Having a few more practice swings before each shot, since my swing is
>> still nowhere near consistent. (Yes, I also put in time on the driving
>> range.)
>
> I've never seen this work. One thing that does help is to make sure
> you go through the exact same routine on the range and on the course.
> The longer the routine though, the greater the opportunity for you to
> start thinking your way to a bad shot.
Rather than worrying about making a perfect swing concentrate on your
alignment. That is what separates golfers in the long run. If you
are misaligned your body senses it, tries to correct and then you
can get some serious uglies. Most good golfers do not take practice
swings, they stand behind the ball, sight their target line up to the
target and swing within 5 to 10 seconds.
>
>> 2. Pacing off pitches of 50-100 yards, since my eye isn't good for judging
>> the distance.
>
> What good is it to know how many yards away you are - you will still
> need to pitch by feel. Spend more time on the chipping green - it
> will pay big dividends. (and never stop).
>
>> 3. Looking at putts from both sides of the green, since I'm not adept at
>> reading breaks.
>
> Good idea. Get to the green first so you have the time without
> slowing down others.
>
>> 4. In some cases, simply finding my ball, since I hit more than my share of
>> errant shots.
>
> Do you walk or ride? Do you see the ball go into the crap?
>
> Experience helps a lot here - I've been getting better and better at
> finding my errant balls.
>
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Date: 24 Feb 2007 00:40:49
From: Dave Lee
Subject: Re: beginner needs guidance on playing speed
|
"Eric Lindholm" <blumberg.NO.lindholm.SPAM@verizon.net > wrote in message
news:mvLDh.104$Tg7.35@trnddc03...
> I took up the game about six months ago, and on a reasonably good day I
can
> average double bogey on our local course of par-3's and 4's. So I'm bad,
> but not blindingly incompetent, as beginners go.
>
> I'm starting to feel a lot of pressure about my playing speed. In
> particular, one guy that I plays with tells me, a couple of times each
> round, that I am too slow. There are lots of ways in which I can benefit
> from a bit more time than someone who is more experienced:
>
> 1. Having a few more practice swings before each shot, since my swing is
> still nowhere near consistent. (Yes, I also put in time on the driving
> range.)
>
> 2. Pacing off pitches of 50-100 yards, since my eye isn't good for judging
> the distance.
>
> 3. Looking at putts from both sides of the green, since I'm not adept at
> reading breaks.
>
> 4. In some cases, simply finding my ball, since I hit more than my share
of
> errant shots.
>
> What doesn't help is that our local course schedules tee times only eight
> minutes apart, so it tends to be completely jammed up during peak periods.
>
> I did some reading online, including on the USGA site, and the general
> message seems to be that everyone should play as quickly as they can,
> treating all time "on the clock" as a supreme inconvenience to the other
> players in the group and on the hole behind. More than one source says
that
> the playing speed of pros on television should be ignored, because they
have
> a lot of money at stake and so are entitled to be more thoughtful.
>
> I don't have professional aspirations, obviously, but how soon in one's
> development as a golfer is one entitled to think about what he's doing? I
> tried "speed golf" the last time out and could sort of do it, after taking
> the first few holes to adjust, but it certainly wasn't fun.
>
> More generally, how can I be confident that I'm playing quickly enough?
> Especially with the way our course is laid out, there will always be a big
> backup at certain holes, so going by the position of the groups ahead or
> behind isn't useful. What are some guidelines for beginners about how
much
> time is allowed to prepare for shots?
>
> Thanks in advance.
The fundamental rule is "when it is your turn to hit, but ready to hit". Pay
attention to how low it takes you playing buddies to hit the ball once it
becomes their turn. Don't take any longer than that.
A few practice swings can be quick or seemingly endless. See above.
If you need a yardage inside 100, hopefully you can get it off a sprinkler
head or something. If not learn to judge "halfway" as it usually takes
little time to walk off maybe 25 yards for a 50 yard shot. I don't play with
anybody who will walk off all of a 50 yard pitch. And there will be times
when it "doesn't fit" within reasonable time constraints. No big deal - make
your best swing without the exact yardage and move on.
Looking at every putt from four sides like Tiger is fine if folks are lining
up their own putts and otherwise not waiting for your process to finish. If
they are waiting for you - welcome to the slow player's club. BTW, everybody
gets "time to line it up from behind" with some reasonable level of care.
You can also learn allot about a green just by observing it as you approach
it.
If you are playing in carts use common sense on where they are parked,
switching drivers under some circumstances, etc.
BTW, just caring about whether you are slow or not pretty much guarantees
that you'll solve the problem.
Good luck.
dave
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