are lessons a waste ?

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Date: 02 Nov 2006 02:57:35
From: Patty
Subject: are lessons a waste ?

I'm getting a bit fustrated. Probably due to me not getting better any
quicker !!

I've tried three Golf Pro's now and seem to think I get better
information from the Golf Channel or this RSG.

First Instructor... Said I had a decent swing not much wrong with
it...Just needed practice:- waste of $40.

Second instructor Said I take the club way inside, decided to work on
my Stance and takeaway. Then started to ask about my job, Career,
Family where I lived, how much he earned on the tour etc etc... Not
much about my golf swing.

Third instructor. Looked at my swing adjusted my stance asked me to
hit a few balls. Then disappeared to take a Mobile phone Call.

ARRRGH!! I'm running out of instructors....

Tempted to make do with what I 've got and plod along...

are they all this bad ?

Patty,

Date: 04 Nov 2006 11:50:06
From: Patty
Subject: Re: are lessons a waste ?

Thanks for all the replies. really appreciated

I think I'll stick with lessons but seek a good instructor.

thanks
patty

Date: 04 Nov 2006 22:28:24
From: Scott McReynolds
Subject: Re: are lessons a waste ?

In article <1162669806.080268.137820@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com >,
"Patty" <simplycisco@hotmail.com > wrote:

> Thanks for all the replies. really appreciated
>
>
> I think I'll stick with lessons but seek a good instructor.
>
> thanks
> patty

You might look in the Golf Digest top instructors and find one in your
state. You get what you pay for. I went to a guy that's over an hour
away from where I live, but he's ranked number 43 in the Golf Digest Top
50. I've taken just a half hour lesson and a one hour lesson this year.
I learned more in the first half hour than in the 5 previous years of
playing. He also gave me DVDs of the lessons to review.

scottmac

Date: 04 Nov 2006 16:01:40
From: carl llewellyn
Subject: Re: are lessons a waste ?

A brother of mine recommened an instructor that was at a driving range
near me. I used him a couple of times and was happy with him. I went
back one day to get a lessonon my short game from him and he was gone.
I used another instructor that was there and was happy with him.

You may need to ask people that you know about instructors to help
yourself find a good intructor.

Date: 03 Nov 2006 06:56:19
From:
Subject: Re: are lessons a waste ?

On Nov 2, 5:57 am, "Patty" <simplyci...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> I'm getting a bit fustrated. Probably due to me not getting better any
> quicker !!
>
> I've tried three Golf Pro's now and seem to think I get better
> information from the Golf Channel or this RSG.
>
> First Instructor... Said I had a decent swing not much wrong with
> it...Just needed practice:- waste of $40.

Have had that happen. Sux don't it?? If Tiger, Phil, Michelle,
Natalie etc need full time swing consultants, you'd think there's gotta
be something they can help with for anyone who shoots above par.

> Second instructor Said I take the club way inside, decided to work on
> my Stance and takeaway. Then started to ask about my job, Career,
> Family where I lived, how much he earned on the tour etc etc... Not
> much about my golf swing.

Sounds like s/he wanted a date, not a student.

> Third instructor. Looked at my swing adjusted my stance asked me to
> hit a few balls. Then disappeared to take a Mobile phone Call.

Refund city... really. If it happened recently, I'd still (politely)
complain you might get a free lesson out of it, and maybe the
instructor will shape up.. you never know. Otherwise, I'd keep
looking but request a phone conversation with the instructor (in case
you get a helper writing who's just writing it in the book).

Date: 03 Nov 2006 06:54:03
From: The_Professor
Subject: Re: are lessons a waste ?

Patty wrote:

snippit...

I have a sense of deja vu here! ;^)

Once you develop whatever your basic swing is, there is not much an
instructor can do for you other than lighten your wallet until you
learn to play golf. Golf is not golf swing! To "get better" you need to
go onto the course and learn how to use the game you have to score
reasonably well. You can then deduce that certain shots you don't have
could help your game, and you can go to someone knowledgable to learn
those shots.

A lot of golf instruction is snake oil, IMHO. You cannot learn to play
the game of golf on a driving range, that's for sure!

Date: 02 Nov 2006 23:22:35
From: David Geesaman
Subject: Re: are lessons a waste ?

Date: 03 Nov 2006 13:01:01
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: are lessons a waste ?

On Thu, 02 Nov 2006 23:22:35 -0500, David Geesaman
<dgeesamanIHateSpam@yahoo.com > wrote:

>As for the golf magazines or tv being more help, I hope that was
>hyperbole. Because a good pro provides *accurate* information.
>Magazines and TV are just plain information. The difference cannot be
>overstated.

The main advantage of a pro is that he uses his trained eye to see
what his student needs. The tips in the magazines are made by pros
who don't see the reader. Despite what Larry says, we all don't need
the same tip right now.

Even tour players find external trained eyes useful - asking "how's my
setup?". I could suspect that I either lunge or am OTT by the
results of my swing (and from reading magazine articles). But I
required a pro to tell me which one applied to me.

Date: 02 Nov 2006 13:32:20
From:
Subject: Re: are lessons a waste ?

Patty wrote:
> I'm getting a bit fustrated. Probably due to me not getting better any
> quicker !!
>
> I've tried three Golf Pro's now and seem to think I get better
> information from the Golf Channel or this RSG.
>
> First Instructor... Said I had a decent swing not much wrong with
> it...Just needed practice:- waste of $40.
>
> Second instructor Said I take the club way inside, decided to work on
> my Stance and takeaway. Then started to ask about my job, Career,
> Family where I lived, how much he earned on the tour etc etc... Not
> much about my golf swing.
>
> Third instructor. Looked at my swing adjusted my stance asked me to
> hit a few balls. Then disappeared to take a Mobile phone Call.
>
>
> ARRRGH!! I'm running out of instructors....
>
> Tempted to make do with what I 've got and plod along...
>
> are they all this bad ?
>
> Patty,

First, I would ask around from some people in your area. It's like
finding a good, honest car mechanic. They might be good, but they
might also have lesson plans that go on and on before they let you in
on the more important points.

I would like to look at them swing before I would ever consider them.
Anyone can talk up a storm. I would want to see 10 straight well stuck
shots, good sounding going right toward a target. There are a lot of
lesson givers that aren't much better than bogey golfers.

I would go to a library and get a book to read on basic instruction, so
you have something to go on, and something to maybe test your
instructor on as a lesson goes on.

Ask a potential instructor if they know the difference between a drive
loaded swing and a drag loaded swing?...and if they could show the
difference. You should have the right to know the difference and to
choose between the two styles.

It's always a bonus if you can find a good instructor that gives good
instruction in group lessons which are less costly.

I wouldn't hesitate to find the best person hitting on the driving
range and hit next to them, and start a little conversation with them
when their golf balls were through or before, and ask them the way they
got there.

CJ

Date: 02 Nov 2006 10:47:37
From: John B.
Subject: Re: are lessons a waste ?

Date: 02 Nov 2006 10:30:50
From: Thor
Subject: Re: are lessons a waste ?

Patty wrote:
> I'm getting a bit fustrated. Probably due to me not getting better any
> quicker !!
[...]
> are they all this bad ?

No. Where are you located?

Perhaps someone here can make a recommendation.

-- Thor

Date: 02 Nov 2006 17:09:42
From: Rob Davis
Subject: Re: are lessons a waste ?

Just to add my $.02 to the other replies ... as you've discovered,
finding the right pro can be a challenge in itself. Although, based on
my experiences, you've hit the bottom-of-the-barrel trifecta right off
the bat 8^(. I've had a couple of really good instructors and a few
so-so instructors, but fortunately none as bad as you describe. The
frustrating part that I've found is that they did all focus on different
"faults" and tried to change my swing in different ways ... which means
the methods and how much they actually helped did vary widely. Try again
... patience is a tremendous asset in golf 8^). I've also found value in
reading instruction books ... it's hard to teach yourself, but they may
help some, and I've found it at least gives me some basic knowledge to
judge the teachers by.

Rob

Patty wrote:
> I'm getting a bit fustrated. Probably due to me not getting better any
> quicker !!
>
> I've tried three Golf Pro's now and seem to think I get better
> information from the Golf Channel or this RSG.
>
> First Instructor... Said I had a decent swing not much wrong with
> it...Just needed practice:- waste of $40.
>
> Second instructor Said I take the club way inside, decided to work on
> my Stance and takeaway. Then started to ask about my job, Career,
> Family where I lived, how much he earned on the tour etc etc... Not
> much about my golf swing.
>
> Third instructor. Looked at my swing adjusted my stance asked me to
> hit a few balls. Then disappeared to take a Mobile phone Call.
>
>
> ARRRGH!! I'm running out of instructors....
>
> Tempted to make do with what I 've got and plod along...
>
> are they all this bad ?
>
> Patty,
>

Date: 02 Nov 2006 07:53:29
From: Booker Little
Subject: Re: are lessons a waste ?

"Patty" <simplycisco@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1162465055.754555.224590@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> I'm getting a bit fustrated. Probably due to me not getting better any
> quicker !!
>
> I've tried three Golf Pro's now and seem to think I get better
> information from the Golf Channel or this RSG.
>
> First Instructor... Said I had a decent swing not much wrong with
> it...Just needed practice:- waste of $40.
>
> Second instructor Said I take the club way inside, decided to work on
> my Stance and takeaway. Then started to ask about my job, Career,
> Family where I lived, how much he earned on the tour etc etc... Not
> much about my golf swing.
>
> Third instructor. Looked at my swing adjusted my stance asked me to
> hit a few balls. Then disappeared to take a Mobile phone Call.
>
>
> ARRRGH!! I'm running out of instructors....
>
> Tempted to make do with what I 've got and plod along...
>
> are they all this bad ?
>
> Patty,

Go here http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/vba_index.php?page=home....
become a member. Go to the gallery and first watch all the Tom Tomasello
Lessons. Master what he teaches. Do not listen to anything people post
here or anywhere else relative to the golf swing. It is not difficult to
master the golf swing. The game is hard
because you must learn to master yourself. The mechanics of the swing are
much more simple than most people ever imagine. Good luck.

Date: 02 Nov 2006 16:03:26
From: Watson deMeneux (formerly Roger Thaat)
Subject: Re: are lessons a waste ?

Patty wrote:
> I'm getting a bit fustrated. Probably due to me not getting better any
> quicker !!
>
> I've tried three Golf Pro's now and seem to think I get better
> information from the Golf Channel or this RSG.
>
>
One golf lesson is like one piano lesson in terms of the results.

You should decide what your objective is, then talk to a few pros about
what you want to accomplish. Do you want to drop your h'cap by 50%. Want
to just get the ball airborne? Need help on putting? Want a complete
game overhaul?

In this way, a pro might suggest a single 1/2 hour one day or a summer
long schedule of lessons, practive and play. You can learn a lot about
a teacher w/o spending any money just by asking a few questions and
chatting for 10 minutes.
--
Watson deMeneux
-Say it out loud next time you're in a restaurant.

Date: 02 Nov 2006 16:42:12
From: RoR
Subject: Re: are lessons a waste ?

On Thu, 02 Nov 2006 16:03:26 GMT, "Watson deMeneux (formerly Roger Thaat)"
<Nevermind@server.it > wrote:

>Patty wrote:
>> I'm getting a bit fustrated. Probably due to me not getting better any
>> quicker !!
>>
>> I've tried three Golf Pro's now and seem to think I get better
>> information from the Golf Channel or this RSG.
>>
>>
>One golf lesson is like one piano lesson in terms of the results.
>
>You should decide what your objective is, then talk to a few pros about
>what you want to accomplish. Do you want to drop your h'cap by 50%. Want
>to just get the ball airborne? Need help on putting? Want a complete
>game overhaul?
>
>In this way, a pro might suggest a single 1/2 hour one day or a summer
>long schedule of lessons, practive and play. You can learn a lot about
>a teacher w/o spending any money just by asking a few questions and
>chatting for 10 minutes.

This is the best advice yet. If the pro won't take the time to chat with you prior to a
lesson, what indication is there that they'd listen to you during the lesson?

Also, beware of pros that immediately want to re-do your swing completely. Many will
actually redo your swing completely, but little by little, so you won't realize it, and so
each change adds to what you do, not takes away from your game. This takes longer, but
allows you to keep playing without being a total spaz on the course.

Of course, if you do want to completely redo your swing, let the pro know that - it's
overall a faster way to get to the finished product - if you do your part and spend hours
and hours practicing - but forget playing halfway decently during the process.

Find a pro you like, can talk with, and that teaches to fit your learning style (are you a
feel player, a mechanical player, a visual learner, etc. - these are important in
themselves) to get the most from each lesson. In order to get the most from the lessons
(all of them) requires lots of good practice - not just hitting balls - between lessons.
Lots of balls - lots of times.

Good luck!

Rick R

Date: 02 Nov 2006 10:15:36
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: are lessons a waste ?

On Thu, 02 Nov 2006 16:42:12 GMT, RoR <rorider@gmail.default > wrote:

>Also, beware of pros that immediately want to re-do your swing completely. Many will
>actually redo your swing completely, but little by little, so you won't realize it, and so
>each change adds to what you do, not takes away from your game. This takes longer, but
>allows you to keep playing without being a total spaz on the course.

Depending on where you live, now might be a good time to rework a
swing completely. If you won't play competively for several months,
the non-gradual change might be worth while. Let your pro know what
your desired timeline is.

On the other hand, if you have a tournament next week, you just want
him to check your positioning and maybe course management. Substantial
changes can screw up your short term game.

Oh - even with the worst swing in the world - short game practice is
well worth while. While asking around for a pro, ask who's good at
helping with the short game.

Date: 02 Nov 2006 09:59:04
From: warren montgomery
Subject: Re: are lessons a waste ?

"Patty" <simplycisco@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1162465055.754555.224590@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> I'm getting a bit fustrated. Probably due to me not getting better any
> quicker !!
>
> I've tried three Golf Pro's now and seem to think I get better
> information from the Golf Channel or this RSG.
>
Instuctors vary widely in approach and competence, you have to find one that
suits you. If you know other players ask around about who they have had
lessons from and how it worked out. Have a chat before you sign up about
their approach. In my experience some pros basically teach everyone the
same swing and will start right in to get you to swing that way. Others
will look at your swing and fit their instruction to what you have. That
takes a bit more time to get started on and I suspect it's tougher for them
since they have to deal with a broader range of swings. You have to decide
what you are looking for and make sure the pro you pick can operate that
way. With any program of instruction practice is the key to getting
something out of it. Don't expect the pro to give you a quick fix that
takes 5 strokes off your game without having to practice it on the range to
groove the new movements.

--
Warren Montgomery (wamontgomery@att.net)
http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery

Date: 02 Nov 2006 06:08:24
From: Birdie Bill
Subject: Re: are lessons a waste ?

On Nov 2, 4:57 am, "Patty" <simplyci...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> I'm getting a bit fustrated. Probably due to me not getting better any
> quicker !!
>
> I've tried three Golf Pro's now and seem to think I get better
> information from the Golf Channel or this RSG.
>
> First Instructor... Said I had a decent swing not much wrong with
> it...Just needed practice:- waste of $40.
>
> Second instructor Said I take the club way inside, decided to work on
> my Stance and takeaway. Then started to ask about my job, Career,
> Family where I lived, how much he earned on the tour etc etc... Not
> much about my golf swing.
>
> Third instructor. Looked at my swing adjusted my stance asked me to
> hit a few balls. Then disappeared to take a Mobile phone Call.
>
> ARRRGH!! I'm running out of instructors....
>
> Tempted to make do with what I 've got and plod along...
>
> are they all this bad ?
>
> Patty,

I've had lessons from numerous instructors,
and got something from each one. Any failure for me to
improve was due solely to my inability to keep doing what
I was being taught (bad habits are hard to break).
I've just never run into a bad pro.

The second pro did give you a good lesson. Stance
and takeaway are a huge part of the golf swing. Until
you get that right, there is really no need to go
on to anything else.

I suggest you take a video lesson. It can be a
real eye-opener. The first time I did I was shocked to
see the pro correct something I was
doing wrong, and then two swings later I reverted
to doing it wrong again. This continued over
and over and over.

Learning the golf swing can be a long, slow,
frustrating process, believe me, I know.

It's a hard game. Have you considered bowling?

Date: 02 Nov 2006 13:32:52
From: jeffc
Subject: Re: are lessons a waste ?

"Patty" <simplycisco@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1162465055.754555.224590@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
...
>
> are they all this bad ?

Patty, no they're not. Utilizing a golf instructor takes 3 steps.
1) Find a good one.
2) Take lessons.
3) Practice a lot on your own.

You skipped step 1. Unfortunately, it takes a lot of time and effort in
itself. It's not as easy as asking some buddy if they know a good one (but
that's a start). And it's definitely not as easy as going to the local
course and just signing up for whoever they give you.

Actually, the way you're doing it is one way - trial and error. That can be
expensive and time consuming though.

Date: 02 Nov 2006 05:23:05
From: Larry Bud
Subject: Re: are lessons a waste ?

Patty wrote:
> I'm getting a bit fustrated. Probably due to me not getting better any
> quicker !!
>
> I've tried three Golf Pro's now and seem to think I get better
> information from the Golf Channel or this RSG.
>
> First Instructor... Said I had a decent swing not much wrong with
> it...Just needed practice:- waste of $40.
>
> Second instructor Said I take the club way inside, decided to work on
> my Stance and takeaway. Then started to ask about my job, Career,
> Family where I lived, how much he earned on the tour etc etc... Not
> much about my golf swing.
>
> Third instructor. Looked at my swing adjusted my stance asked me to
> hit a few balls. Then disappeared to take a Mobile phone Call.
>
>
> ARRRGH!! I'm running out of instructors....
>
> Tempted to make do with what I 've got and plod along...
>
> are they all this bad ?

No, they're not all that bad. Sometimes it's hard to find a good pro,
and you really need to interview THEM before you go. Ask them (before
you sign up for lessons) what their philosophy is for the golf swing,
and what to expect when you go for a lesson with them. If they can't
answer that on the phone, go to the next one.

I used to go to my brother-in-law who IMO is an excellent teacher, but
came to a point in my swing that I wanted a 2nd opinion. I went to
another guy that I saw a few times at the range and overheard his
teaching method. He was OK, but he did tend to bullshit a lot. But he
would also extend the 30 minute lesson into 40 or 45... maybe because I
was the last one on the docket. But we parted after he and I clearly
didn't see eye to eye on some fundamental golf theory.

FWIW, I wouldn't pay the 3rd guy if he's off talking on the phone
during the lesson you paid for.

Date: 02 Nov 2006 04:40:30
From: cja
Subject: Re: are lessons a waste ?

Patty wrote:

> I've tried three Golf Pro's now and seem to think I get better
> information from the Golf Channel or this RSG.
> ...
> ARRRGH!! I'm running out of instructors....
> Tempted to make do with what I've got and plod along...
> are they all this bad ?
>
They're probably not all that bad, but it may take time to find the
right instructor for you; could be an expensive process. Sounds like
the guys you tried so far were just not that interested in your golf
game. I can't say lessons are a waste. With the right instructor it
should be the best way to improve quickly. I, however, have never had a
formal lesson and have a single-digit index, so it's possible to
self-teach yourself to a decent game. That can take a lot of time and
patience, though.

- cja

Date: 02 Nov 2006 13:33:50
From: jeffc
Subject: Re: are lessons a waste ?

"cja" <cja@excite.com > wrote in message
news:1162471230.014672.32570@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
> I, however, have never had a
> formal lesson and have a single-digit index, so it's possible to
> self-teach yourself to a decent game.

It's possible to teach YOURself. It's not possible for everyone.