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Date: 15 Oct 2006 16:10:40
From: gp
Subject: Wie, what next girl?
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I predict Wie will be the female version of Ty Tryon. The enjoyment of
early success and victim of high expectations from the golf world. Her
lack of achievement playing against the gals, coupled with the constant
criticism and second guessing of the Wie Camp's decision to play
against the boys has ruined her young psyche.
...just like Tryon (who can barely make a cut at the mini-tour level),
all of those factors will wash her up at an early age, perhaps even
causing her to gain her amatuer status back, cancel her endorsements,
go to college, and learn to win at the college level.
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Date: 16 Oct 2006 20:55:15
From:
Subject: Re: Wie, what next girl?
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Joe User wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 12:27:20 -0700, rastafarians2002 wrote:
>
> > Now you're dissing Wie in a year in which she has 5 top-5 finishes (and
> > 6 top-10) out of 8 LPGA tournaments this year.
> >
> > Oh, but of course she hasn't won. Do you know how old the youngest
> > winner was on the LPGA tour?> I do,
>
> Paula Creamer was 18 years, 9 months, and 17 days old when she sunk a 17
> foot birdie putt on the final hole of the Sybase Classic in 2005 to become
> the youngest winner in LPGA history. Two months later she won the Evian
> Masters (by 8 shots) to become the youngest and faster player to reach $1
> million in career earnings.
>
> Is that you you meant?
That's it. Michelle Wie won't be 18 years, 9 months, 17 days until the
end of July 2008 -- about 1.75 years, nearly 2 golf seasons from now.
>
> > and if one is into those kinds of
> > records, Wie has all of next season and most of the following season to
> > win and still become the youngest LPGA winner ever*.
>
> She could certainly do it. But...Paula did it in her first year as a pro.
> Twice. And twice more in Japan.
She did it in her 9th event that year. Wie has not had that kind of
continuity on the tour yet, given that she can only play 8 events over
the course of a year. But Creamer had a great year in 2005 to be sure.
A record-setting year.
>
> If one is into those kinds of records, Paula did it in far fewer events
> than Michelle has already played in. It's already too late for Wie to
> outdo Paula in that respect.
My point is that some people get impatient or write Wie off for not
having won yet, even though she has almost two years in which to win
and still have the record for being the youngest ever to win a
multi-round event. As it stands, Creamer has that record. I'd have to
look into how many events it took her compared to how many Wie has
played so far.
> > To me, those who
> > consider her washed up because she hasn't won yet are either
> > unrealistic or just have a negative bias.
>
> Of course she isn't washed up. She's only 17. It's too late for her to
> win as a 16 year old, but she has another year to win as a 17 year old,
> and I'm sure she'll get plenty of chances.
Well, she'll have 8 chances, assuming her status stays the same.
Regards
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Date: 17 Oct 2006 01:47:29
From: Joe User
Subject: Re: Wie, what next girl?
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On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 12:27:20 -0700, rastafarians2002 wrote:
> Now you're dissing Wie in a year in which she has 5 top-5 finishes (and
> 6 top-10) out of 8 LPGA tournaments this year.
>
> Oh, but of course she hasn't won. Do you know how old the youngest
> winner was on the LPGA tour?> I do,
Paula Creamer was 18 years, 9 months, and 17 days old when she sunk a 17
foot birdie putt on the final hole of the Sybase Classic in 2005 to become
the youngest winner in LPGA history. Two months later she won the Evian
Masters (by 8 shots) to become the youngest and faster player to reach $1
million in career earnings.
Is that you you meant?
> and if one is into those kinds of
> records, Wie has all of next season and most of the following season to
> win and still become the youngest LPGA winner ever*.
She could certainly do it. But...Paula did it in her first year as a pro.
Twice. And twice more in Japan.
If one is into those kinds of records, Paula did it in far fewer events
than Michelle has already played in. It's already too late for Wie to
outdo Paula in that respect.
> To me, those who
> consider her washed up because she hasn't won yet are either
> unrealistic or just have a negative bias.
Of course she isn't washed up. She's only 17. It's too late for her to
win as a 16 year old, but she has another year to win as a 17 year old,
and I'm sure she'll get plenty of chances.
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Date: 16 Oct 2006 12:27:20
From:
Subject: Re: Wie, what next girl?
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curtjester@webtv.net wrote:
> gp wrote:
> > I predict Wie will be the female version of Ty Tryon. The enjoyment of
> > early success and victim of high expectations from the golf world. Her
> > lack of achievement playing against the gals, coupled with the constant
> > criticism and second guessing of the Wie Camp's decision to play
> > against the boys has ruined her young psyche.
> >
> > ...just like Tryon (who can barely make a cut at the mini-tour level),
> > all of those factors will wash her up at an early age, perhaps even
> > causing her to gain her amatuer status back, cancel her endorsements,
> > go to college, and learn to win at the college level.
>
> She will always be an oddity. She hit's the ball a mile, and with that
> can go low if everything else is going right. The trouble is, that her
> overall game is not up to snuff with the elite of the LPGA. She will
> win because of her length. She will only be great when and if she
> get's an overall game. My prediction is she will be always around the
> top 10 when she gets in the LPGA, but no dominate winner, and probably
> will never be as good as a Lorena Ochoa.
Funny how things change. It was only a few months ago on this group
that people (I'm not saying you) were dismissing Ochoa as talented but
cracks under pressure on Sundays. The nickname "Ochoka" was used, I
believe.
Now you're dissing Wie in a year in which she has 5 top-5 finishes (and
6 top-10) out of 8 LPGA tournaments this year.
Oh, but of course she hasn't won. Do you know how old the youngest
winner was on the LPGA tour? I do, and if one is into those kinds of
records, Wie has all of next season and most of the following season to
win and still become the youngest LPGA winner ever*. To me, those who
consider her washed up because she hasn't won yet are either
unrealistic or just have a negative bias.
Regards
(* except for lene Hagge, who won a couple of events at age 18 in
the early 1950's. Those events were 1-day, 18-hole events).
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Date: 16 Oct 2006 19:53:47
From: Steve
Subject: Re: Wie, what next girl?
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<rastafarians2002@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1161026840.151293.207310@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>
> curtjester@webtv.net wrote:
>> gp wrote:
>> > I predict Wie will be the female version of Ty Tryon. The enjoyment of
>> > early success and victim of high expectations from the golf world. Her
>> > lack of achievement playing against the gals, coupled with the constant
>> > criticism and second guessing of the Wie Camp's decision to play
>> > against the boys has ruined her young psyche.
>> >
>> > ...just like Tryon (who can barely make a cut at the mini-tour level),
>> > all of those factors will wash her up at an early age, perhaps even
>> > causing her to gain her amatuer status back, cancel her endorsements,
>> > go to college, and learn to win at the college level.
>>
>> She will always be an oddity. She hit's the ball a mile, and with that
>> can go low if everything else is going right. The trouble is, that her
>> overall game is not up to snuff with the elite of the LPGA. She will
>> win because of her length. She will only be great when and if she
>> get's an overall game. My prediction is she will be always around the
>> top 10 when she gets in the LPGA, but no dominate winner, and probably
>> will never be as good as a Lorena Ochoa.
>
> Funny how things change. It was only a few months ago on this group
> that people (I'm not saying you) were dismissing Ochoa as talented but
> cracks under pressure on Sundays. The nickname "Ochoka" was used, I
> believe.
You are right... I remember reading on this same NG after the 3 round of the
2005 Womens Open how it was all over for the rest of the LPGA players. At
that point, if I would have offered to bet that M.W. would not win a tourney
in the rest of 2005 or all of 2006, I would have had more action than
SuperBowl Sunday in Vegas.
I think she will one day be the top player on the LPGA, not in the next year
or two but eventually. What I have always been bothered by is the way
keting and endorsments seem to be the number one priority and not playing
in tourneys she has a chance at winning and winning tourneys she should win.
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Date: 16 Oct 2006 09:55:29
From:
Subject: Re: Wie, what next girl?
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gp wrote:
> I predict Wie will be the female version of Ty Tryon. The enjoyment of
> early success and victim of high expectations from the golf world. Her
> lack of achievement playing against the gals, coupled with the constant
> criticism and second guessing of the Wie Camp's decision to play
> against the boys has ruined her young psyche.
>
> ...just like Tryon (who can barely make a cut at the mini-tour level),
> all of those factors will wash her up at an early age, perhaps even
> causing her to gain her amatuer status back, cancel her endorsements,
> go to college, and learn to win at the college level.
She will always be an oddity. She hit's the ball a mile, and with that
can go low if everything else is going right. The trouble is, that her
overall game is not up to snuff with the elite of the LPGA. She will
win because of her length. She will only be great when and if she
get's an overall game. My prediction is she will be always around the
top 10 when she gets in the LPGA, but no dominate winner, and probably
will never be as good as a Lorena Ochoa.
CJ
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Date: 16 Oct 2006 05:03:23
From: Indiana_John
Subject: Re: Wie, what next girl?
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gp wrote:
> I predict Wie will be the female version of Ty Tryon. The enjoyment of
> early success and victim of high expectations from the golf world. Her
> lack of achievement playing against the gals, coupled with the constant
> criticism and second guessing of the Wie Camp's decision to play
> against the boys has ruined her young psyche.
>
> ...just like Tryon (who can barely make a cut at the mini-tour level),
> all of those factors will wash her up at an early age, perhaps even
> causing her to gain her amatuer status back, cancel her endorsements,
> go to college, and learn to win at the college level.
Let's see, she's a Top Five player in the world and would've been Top
15 (maybe Top 10) on the LPGA money list if her name was listed. Yes,
she's been totally unsuccessful this year as a pro. Do you base her
comments on the fact that she went to school for a few weeks and then
came back and did poorly last week?
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Date: 15 Oct 2006 20:18:28
From:
Subject: Re: Wie, what next girl?
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Steve wrote:
> > You don't hear much from the people who held Pressel up as an example
> > of how Wie should have prepared to become a pro.
> >
>
> I know I said many of times that playing college golf seems to help... more
> specifically, Pac 10 golf... see Sorenstam, Ochoa, Woods and Mickelson.
This I agree with. Tiger has given credit to his coaches at Standford
for helping to shape his talent.
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Date: 16 Oct 2006 19:46:35
From: Steve
Subject: Re: Wie, what next girl?
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>> I know I said many of times that playing college golf seems to help...
>> more
>> specifically, Pac 10 golf... see Sorenstam, Ochoa, Woods and Mickelson.
>
> This I agree with. Tiger has given credit to his coaches at Standford
> for helping to shape his talent.
>
Should have added Furyk who, like Ochoa and Sorenstam is an Arizona Wildcat.
What are the odds?
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Date: 16 Oct 2006 05:49:28
From: Jackson
Subject: Re: Wie, what next girl?
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I believe the simple matter is that she is 16 and still has one hell of a
lot of homework. The limited time she devotes to golf is showing now that
she is a pro. She competes on a very limited schedule and jet-lag has its
effects. Still think by the time she is 20 she will be on top.
<rastafarians2002@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1160968708.353134.320050@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>
> Steve wrote:
>> > You don't hear much from the people who held Pressel up as an example
>> > of how Wie should have prepared to become a pro.
>> >
>>
>> I know I said many of times that playing college golf seems to help...
>> more
>> specifically, Pac 10 golf... see Sorenstam, Ochoa, Woods and Mickelson.
>
> This I agree with. Tiger has given credit to his coaches at Standford
> for helping to shape his talent.
>
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Date: 16 Oct 2006 13:12:31
From: sfb
Subject: Re: Wie, what next girl?
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Your theory lacks foundation. There are lots of kids her age doing very well
in school while participating in extracurricular activities including
sports, theater, etc. A case in point is Sarah Hughes who won Gold in Salt
Lake at 16 and did well enough in high school to matriculate at Yale.
If Miss Wie lacks the stuff between her ears to set priorities and manage
time, then success in professional golf may continue to allude her.
"Jackson" <hackman55@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:So2dncU2V-zTy67YnZ2dnUVZ_oSdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>I believe the simple matter is that she is 16 and still has one hell of a
>lot of homework. The limited time she devotes to golf is showing now that
>she is a pro. She competes on a very limited schedule and jet-lag has its
>effects. Still think by the time she is 20 she will be on top.
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Date: 16 Oct 2006 02:48:57
From: jeffc
Subject: Re: Wie, what next girl?
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"gp" <gopher70@sbcglobal.net > wrote in message
news:1160953840.163176.3240@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> ...just like Tryon (who can barely make a cut at the mini-tour level),
> all of those factors will wash her up at an early age, perhaps even
> causing her to gain her amatuer status back, cancel her endorsements,
> go to college, and learn to win at the college level.
Bwahahahahahaah. Stop, my stomach hurts.
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Date: 15 Oct 2006 17:18:21
From:
Subject: Re: Wie, what next girl?
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gp wrote:
> I predict Wie will be the female version of Ty Tryon. The enjoyment of
> early success and victim of high expectations from the golf world. Her
> lack of achievement playing against the gals, coupled with the constant
> criticism and second guessing of the Wie Camp's decision to play
> against the boys has ruined her young psyche.
>
> ...just like Tryon (who can barely make a cut at the mini-tour level),
> all of those factors will wash her up at an early age, perhaps even
> causing her to gain her amatuer status back, cancel her endorsements,
> go to college, and learn to win at the college level.
Cute. Wie and Tyron both played at the Korean event a few months ago,
and after two rounds, Wie was 17 strokes ahead. Tyron didn't make the
cut, obviously. So I don't think there's any comparison at this point.
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Date: 15 Oct 2006 17:14:17
From: zumafan
Subject: Re: Wie, what next girl?
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zumafan wrote:
> gp wrote:
> > I predict Wie will be the female version of Ty Tryon. The enjoyment of
> > early success and victim of high expectations from the golf world. Her
> > lack of achievement playing against the gals,
>
> Say what? She won a lot of money against the "gals".
6 top 10's out of 8 starts, $718K.... would have been 14th on the LPGA
money list if she was "official".
http://sports.yahoo.com/golf/lpga/players/Michelle+Wie/4963
Pressel, meanwhile, in 20 starts made a little less, $451K
http://sports.yahoo.com/golf/lpga/players/Morgan+Pressel/4236
You don't hear much from the people who held Pressel up as an example
of how Wie should have prepared to become a pro.
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Date: 15 Oct 2006 19:38:17
From: Steve
Subject: Re: Wie, what next girl?
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> You don't hear much from the people who held Pressel up as an example
> of how Wie should have prepared to become a pro.
>
I know I said many of times that playing college golf seems to help... more
specifically, Pac 10 golf... see Sorenstam, Ochoa, Woods and Mickelson.
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Date: 15 Oct 2006 17:03:31
From: zumafan
Subject: Re: Wie, what next girl?
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gp wrote:
> I predict Wie will be the female version of Ty Tryon. The enjoyment of
> early success and victim of high expectations from the golf world. Her
> lack of achievement playing against the gals,
Say what? She won a lot of money against the "gals".
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Date: 15 Oct 2006 23:38:11
From: Michel Oui
Subject: Re: Wie, what next girl?
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gp wrote:
> I predict Wie will be the female version of Ty Tryon. The enjoyment of
> early success and victim of high expectations from the golf world. Her
> lack of achievement playing against the gals, coupled with the constant
> criticism and second guessing of the Wie Camp's decision to play
> against the boys has ruined her young psyche.
>
> ...just like Tryon (who can barely make a cut at the mini-tour level),
> all of those factors will wash her up at an early age, perhaps even
> causing her to gain her amatuer status back, cancel her endorsements,
> go to college, and learn to win at the college level.
Or maybe, being from Hawaii, the problem is that she doesn't play well
in cool weather. Perhaps next summer she will finally break through
and win something.
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Date: 15 Oct 2006 23:53:19
From: Darrell Jefress
Subject: Re: Wie, what next girl?
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"Michel Oui" <GGOAT@example.com > wrote in message
news:DDzYg.361$3C6.32@trnddc04...
> Or maybe, being from Hawaii, the problem is that she doesn't play well
> in cool weather. Perhaps next summer she will finally break through
> and win something.
Watching Michelle on Friday, seeing her from just a few feet away on holes
4-7, I saw something that doesn't really come across on television - she's
put on a significant amount of weight.
It may be that she spent the summer in the weight room. She's not fat - not
in the least. But she's a much bigger young woman than she was a year ago.
We all know that significant body changes can really throw off a golf game,
and perhaps she's going through that right now.
I haven't seen her in person since this event a year ago, so maybe someone
who has seen MW in person a few times this year can comment on body changes.
Maybe it's going to be "Tiger 2004" all over again - "I'm close". I was
joking about this with my wife on Saturday, and sure enough, she said
something very close to that in her post-round interview on Friday's
coverage.
Oh, one other observation - if cold weather was the issue, she should have
played great this week - it was in the 80s at Palm Desert this weekend, and
felt great.
DJJ
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