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Date: 05 Mar 2007 13:49:30
From: David
Subject: Why today's players cannot...
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There was a discussion about the "toughness" of today's players vs the players during Jack's eray. This quote by Weekly sums it all up: --"If it's my time to win," Weekley said, "then I'll win."-- I cannot ever imagine a quote like that coming from the players of Jack's era. If you want to win, you have to go out there and take the bull by the horns! This reminds me of the line in Caddyshack. "make your future, Danny!" I have gone on record as saying that the all-exempt tour and huge prize monies have made today's golfers soft. That single quote from Weekly, whom I was rooting for, says it all. Personally, after reading a quote like that, I don't want to see him win. The winner should be the guy who takes what he thinks he has coming to him. Wilson made some clutch putts to keep in the game. If he is to go on and win today, he deserves it--unless he has also made some stupid ass quote like that of Weekly's. David
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Date: 06 Mar 2007 10:06:33
From: Miss Anne Thrope
Subject: Re: Why today's players cannot...
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"I have gone on record as saying that..." Oh crap.....were we supposed to write those brain farts down?
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Date: 05 Mar 2007 17:43:10
From: annika1980
Subject: Re: Why today's players cannot...
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On 5, 7:58 pm, "WW" <dirt...@msn.com > wrote: > > Funny you mention Jack. He was having a discussion w/ Johnny Miller > during yesterdays game. I said to my girl the day b4. "The competition > is soo much better today - it's very hard to dominate". That's exactly > what Jack said yesterday. That & the fact people have to KNOW how to > win down the strech like he & Arnold did. Billy Casper says hi. Call me when Tiger blows a 7-shot lead with 9 to play. Hell, even Greg Norman couldn't do that. But Arnie did.
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Date: 05 Mar 2007 16:58:03
From: WW
Subject: Re: Why today's players cannot...
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Jack's era. Funny you mention Jack. He was having a discussion w/ Johnny Miller during yesterdays game. I said to my girl the day b4. "The competition is soo much better today - it's very hard to dominate". That's exactly what Jack said yesterday. That & the fact people have to KNOW how to win down the strech like he & Arnold did. Just about every guy on the pro tour can shoot lights out on a given day. I think it's just like any other sport.People train harder now & take care of themselves physically. All except for fat John D. who hasn't won anything in awhile.
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Date: 05 Mar 2007 15:21:31
From: Bill H.
Subject: Re: Why today's players cannot...
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On 5, 4:49 am, David <dgold1...@yahoo.de > wrote: > There was a discussion about the "toughness" of today's players vs > the players during Jack's eray. This quote by Weekly sums it all up: > > --"If it's my time to win," Weekley said, "then I'll win."-- > > I cannot ever imagine a quote like that coming from the players of > Jack's era. If you want to win, you have to go out there and take the > bull by the horns! This reminds me of the line in Caddyshack. "make > your future, Danny!" > > I have gone on record as saying that the all-exempt tour and huge > prize monies have made today's golfers soft. That single quote from > Weekly, whom I was rooting for, says it all. Personally, after > reading a quote like that, I don't want to see him win. The winner > should be the guy who takes what he thinks he has coming to him. > Wilson made some clutch putts to keep in the game. If he is to go on > and win today, he deserves it--unless he has also made some stupid ass > quote like that of Weekly's. > > David My feeling on this is that anyone who's made it to the PGA Tour, and has managed to stick around a bit, knows how to compete and win. But at the same time, most "average" Tour players know how good they are, and how good they aren't. So their goals may be (and probably should be) different than Tiger's, Vijay's, etc. I don't think there's anything wrong with going out and playing "your game" and not worrying too much about the end result. Great players who obviously have much more talent will expect more of themselves, and rightfully so. I also think it's better for your long-term sanity to not sweat the details, and not make every shot (or every match) a life or death situation. In the long run, it probably won't matter much in one golfers career if he doesn't win a particular match. Even if they're "failures" on the PGA Tour, I'm guessing that life isn't too bad for these guys.
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Date: 09 Mar 2007 03:34:26
From: Jim McKinley
Subject: Re: Why today's players cannot...
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Bill H wrote -- I also think it's better for your long-term sanity to not sweat the details, and not make every shot (or every match) a life or death situation. In the long run, it probably won't matter much in one golfers career if he doesn't win a particular match. Even if they're "failures" on the PGA Tour, I'm guessing that life isn't too bad for these guys. ========== That is the exact reason there is an attitude such as we saw. The guys have it good even if they don't win. Between their sponsors and the money they make for finishing 95th at the end of the year is more than any of us will ever see. The pros in the 60's and 70's had to make the top 60 to be exempt for the next year. It made them hustle. If they weren't exempt it was Monday qualifiers. Not sure if they had sponsors exemptions then. The tournaments then just had the city (Tucson Open) instead of a title sponsor. Things are better the way they are now, but it does not make the players very hungry. -- Jim ******************************************* Baseball is the Only Game Where the Defense Controls the Ball ******************************************* "Bill H." <billhen@gmail.com > wrote in message news:1173136891.567586.190650@t69g2000cwt.googlegroups.com... > On 5, 4:49 am, David <dgold1...@yahoo.de> wrote: >> There was a discussion about the "toughness" of today's players vs >> the players during Jack's eray. This quote by Weekly sums it all up: >> >> --"If it's my time to win," Weekley said, "then I'll win."-- >> >> I cannot ever imagine a quote like that coming from the players of >> Jack's era. If you want to win, you have to go out there and take the >> bull by the horns! This reminds me of the line in Caddyshack. "make >> your future, Danny!" >> >> I have gone on record as saying that the all-exempt tour and huge >> prize monies have made today's golfers soft. That single quote from >> Weekly, whom I was rooting for, says it all. Personally, after >> reading a quote like that, I don't want to see him win. The winner >> should be the guy who takes what he thinks he has coming to him. >> Wilson made some clutch putts to keep in the game. If he is to go on >> and win today, he deserves it--unless he has also made some stupid ass >> quote like that of Weekly's. >> >> David > > My feeling on this is that anyone who's made it to the PGA Tour, and > has managed to stick around a bit, knows how to compete and win. But > at the same time, most "average" Tour players know how good they are, > and how good they aren't. So their goals may be (and probably should > be) different than Tiger's, Vijay's, etc. I don't think there's > anything wrong with going out and playing "your game" and not worrying > too much about the end result. Great players who obviously have much > more talent will expect more of themselves, and rightfully so. > > I also think it's better for your long-term sanity to not sweat the > details, and not make every shot (or every match) a life or death > situation. In the long run, it probably won't matter much in one > golfers career if he doesn't win a particular match. Even if they're > "failures" on the PGA Tour, I'm guessing that life isn't too bad for > these guys. > >
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Date: 05 Mar 2007 20:34:03
From: Marcel Kuijper
Subject: Re: Why today's players cannot...
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"David" wrote: > This reminds me of the line in Caddyshack. "make your future, Danny!" Uhuh...that movie also gave us the line "you gotta be the ball". cel
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Date: 05 Mar 2007 15:29:44
From: John van der Pflum
Subject: Re: Why today's players cannot...
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On Mon, 5 2007 20:34:03 +0100, "cel Kuijper" <zoepetier_nothing_here@hotmail.com > wrote: > >"David" wrote: > >> This reminds me of the line in Caddyshack. "make your future, Danny!" > >Uhuh...that movie also gave us the line "you gotta be the ball". > > >cel > And "Anybody want a Fresca?" -- jvdp RSG Cincinnati July 13-15, 2007 http://www.rsgcincinnati.com
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Date: 05 Mar 2007 06:29:04
From: EdSmithers
Subject: Re: Why today's players cannot...
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On 5, 7:49 am, David <dgold1...@yahoo.de > wrote: > --"If it's my time to win," Weekley said, "then I'll win."-- Apparently not today. Thank goodness for Wilson that it was his time. Or maybe some of it is up to the players. Ed
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Date: 05 Mar 2007 09:25:56
From: Martin Levac
Subject: Re: Why today's players cannot...
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"David" <dgold1958@yahoo.de > wrote in message news:cs2ou2phh3u9cjbj308j1v98ladbsd0kmt@4ax.com... > There was a discussion about the "toughness" of today's players vs > the players during Jack's eray. This quote by Weekly sums it all up: > > > --"If it's my time to win," Weekley said, "then I'll win."-- > > I cannot ever imagine a quote like that coming from the players of > Jack's era. If you want to win, you have to go out there and take the > bull by the horns! This reminds me of the line in Caddyshack. "make > your future, Danny!" > > I have gone on record as saying that the all-exempt tour and huge > prize monies have made today's golfers soft. That single quote from > Weekly, whom I was rooting for, says it all. Personally, after > reading a quote like that, I don't want to see him win. The winner > should be the guy who takes what he thinks he has coming to him. > Wilson made some clutch putts to keep in the game. If he is to go on > and win today, he deserves it--unless he has also made some stupid ass > quote like that of Weekly's. > > David Reminds me of the lottery.
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Date: 05 Mar 2007 05:39:56
From: oconnell@slr.orl.lmco.com
Subject: Re: Why today's players cannot...
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On 5, 8:17 am, Mike Dalecki <m...@removeclubdoctor.com > wrote: > David wrote: > > There was a discussion about the "toughness" of today's players vs > > the players during Jack's eray. This quote by Weekly sums it all up: > > > --"If it's my time to win," Weekley said, "then I'll win."-- > > > I cannot ever imagine a quote like that coming from the players of > > Jack's era. If you want to win, you have to go out there and take the > > bull by the horns! This reminds me of the line in Caddyshack. "make > > your future, Danny!" > > > I have gone on record as saying that the all-exempt tour and huge > > prize monies have made today's golfers soft. That single quote from > > Weekly, whom I was rooting for, says it all. Personally, after > > reading a quote like that, I don't want to see him win. The winner > > should be the guy who takes what he thinks he has coming to him. > > Wilson made some clutch putts to keep in the game. If he is to go on > > and win today, he deserves it--unless he has also made some stupid ass > > quote like that of Weekly's. > > > David > > I don't necessarily agree, David. I think, instead, that Weekley is > doing some good mental game work here, very Zen-like if you ask me. It > goes something like this: > > "If it's my turn to win, then it's a done deal. If it's a done deal, > then all I have to do is go through the motions, doing what I know I > need to do, and it's mine. There's no pressure." [snip] Exactly. There's alot of criticism of players about their languange or mental approach. It is all about managing ones perceptions. You have to look at the thoughts behind the language to understand. Jack was on, again, talking about how many of the players "pay too much attention to Tiger" and not to their own game. You think Jack didn't know where he was on the leader board? No, but the way he "thought" about his position was to pay attention to his own shots, not his opponents. Ya ever hear of "play one shot at a time"? You think this means one shouldn't think about the "next shot"? It's just an expression about managing ones thoughts and actions. A guy I played with last weekend said he started making fewer triple bogies when he "stopped worrying about it" and focused on making more pars. It sounds a bit strange but it was just language to describe an approach to evaluating risk vs. reward. Weekly is just saying that if he overplays his hand, he'll screw up and lose. Play his best game, and if it's good enough, he'll win. If it's not, he has to get better (or play weeker opponents ;-)
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Date: 05 Mar 2007 07:17:02
From: Mike Dalecki
Subject: Re: Why today's players cannot...
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David wrote: > There was a discussion about the "toughness" of today's players vs > the players during Jack's eray. This quote by Weekly sums it all up: > > > --"If it's my time to win," Weekley said, "then I'll win."-- > > I cannot ever imagine a quote like that coming from the players of > Jack's era. If you want to win, you have to go out there and take the > bull by the horns! This reminds me of the line in Caddyshack. "make > your future, Danny!" > > I have gone on record as saying that the all-exempt tour and huge > prize monies have made today's golfers soft. That single quote from > Weekly, whom I was rooting for, says it all. Personally, after > reading a quote like that, I don't want to see him win. The winner > should be the guy who takes what he thinks he has coming to him. > Wilson made some clutch putts to keep in the game. If he is to go on > and win today, he deserves it--unless he has also made some stupid ass > quote like that of Weekly's. > > David I don't necessarily agree, David. I think, instead, that Weekley is doing some good mental game work here, very Zen-like if you ask me. It goes something like this: "If it's my turn to win, then it's a done deal. If it's a done deal, then all I have to do is go through the motions, doing what I know I need to do, and it's mine. There's no pressure." Very few people can focus on the pressure of winning, and win; good mental game work allows one to get away from that pressure, such that now skill wins out, not nerves. I really don't think this has anything to do with softness, or toughness, or anything else like that. Mike -- Mike Dalecki GCA Accredited Clubmaker http://clubdoctor.com RSG-Wisconsin 2007: June 22-24----Lawsonia! Website: http://clubdoctor.com/rsgwis2007
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Date: 05 Mar 2007 09:29:01
From: Martin Levac
Subject: Re: Why today's players cannot...
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"Mike Dalecki" <mike@removeclubdoctor.com > wrote in message news:552jilF20qkgdU1@mid.individual.net... > David wrote: >> There was a discussion about the "toughness" of today's players vs >> the players during Jack's eray. This quote by Weekly sums it all >> up: --"If it's my time to win," Weekley said, "then I'll win."-- >> >> I cannot ever imagine a quote like that coming from the players of >> Jack's era. If you want to win, you have to go out there and take the >> bull by the horns! This reminds me of the line in Caddyshack. "make >> your future, Danny!" >> >> I have gone on record as saying that the all-exempt tour and huge >> prize monies have made today's golfers soft. That single quote from >> Weekly, whom I was rooting for, says it all. Personally, after >> reading a quote like that, I don't want to see him win. The winner >> should be the guy who takes what he thinks he has coming to him. >> Wilson made some clutch putts to keep in the game. If he is to go on >> and win today, he deserves it--unless he has also made some stupid ass >> quote like that of Weekly's. >> >> David > > I don't necessarily agree, David. I think, instead, that Weekley is doing > some good mental game work here, very Zen-like if you ask me. It goes > something like this: > > "If it's my turn to win, then it's a done deal. If it's a done deal, then > all I have to do is go through the motions, doing what I know I need to > do, and it's mine. There's no pressure." > > Very few people can focus on the pressure of winning, and win; good mental > game work allows one to get away from that pressure, such that now skill > wins out, not nerves. > > I really don't think this has anything to do with softness, or toughness, > or anything else like that. > > Mike > > > > -- > Mike Dalecki GCA Accredited Clubmaker http://clubdoctor.com > RSG-Wisconsin 2007: June 22-24----Lawsonia! > Website: http://clubdoctor.com/rsgwis2007 The difference between being along for the ride and being the ride. The difference between letting things happen to you and making things happen. The difference between playing dice and playing golf.
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Date: 05 Mar 2007 09:30:36
From: Martin Levac
Subject: Re: Why today's players cannot...
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"tin Levac" <vac3@REMOVEvideotron.ca > wrote in message news:7NVGh.16328$xz5.122093@wagner.videotron.net... > > "Mike Dalecki" <mike@removeclubdoctor.com> wrote in message > news:552jilF20qkgdU1@mid.individual.net... >> David wrote: >>> There was a discussion about the "toughness" of today's players vs >>> the players during Jack's eray. This quote by Weekly sums it all >>> up: --"If it's my time to win," Weekley said, "then I'll win."-- >>> >>> I cannot ever imagine a quote like that coming from the players of >>> Jack's era. If you want to win, you have to go out there and take the >>> bull by the horns! This reminds me of the line in Caddyshack. "make >>> your future, Danny!" >>> >>> I have gone on record as saying that the all-exempt tour and huge >>> prize monies have made today's golfers soft. That single quote from >>> Weekly, whom I was rooting for, says it all. Personally, after >>> reading a quote like that, I don't want to see him win. The winner >>> should be the guy who takes what he thinks he has coming to him. >>> Wilson made some clutch putts to keep in the game. If he is to go on >>> and win today, he deserves it--unless he has also made some stupid ass >>> quote like that of Weekly's. >>> >>> David >> >> I don't necessarily agree, David. I think, instead, that Weekley is >> doing some good mental game work here, very Zen-like if you ask me. It >> goes something like this: >> >> "If it's my turn to win, then it's a done deal. If it's a done deal, >> then all I have to do is go through the motions, doing what I know I need >> to do, and it's mine. There's no pressure." >> >> Very few people can focus on the pressure of winning, and win; good >> mental game work allows one to get away from that pressure, such that now >> skill wins out, not nerves. >> >> I really don't think this has anything to do with softness, or toughness, >> or anything else like that. >> >> Mike >> >> >> >> -- >> Mike Dalecki GCA Accredited Clubmaker http://clubdoctor.com >> RSG-Wisconsin 2007: June 22-24----Lawsonia! >> Website: http://clubdoctor.com/rsgwis2007 > > The difference between being along for the ride and being the ride. The > difference between letting things happen to you and making things happen. > The difference between playing dice and playing golf. > And the last: The difference between following the leader and leading the followers.
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Date: 05 Mar 2007 16:49:01
From: Manco
Subject: Re: Why today's players cannot...
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tin Levac wrote: > > And the last: The difference between following the leader and leading > the followers. Golf is a humbling game. Except to one man named Tiger Woods from the planet Uranus.
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Date: 05 Mar 2007 14:48:23
From: David
Subject: Re: Why today's players cannot...
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On Mon, 05 2007 07:17:02 -0600, Mike Dalecki <mike@removeclubdoctor.com > wrote: >David wrote: >> There was a discussion about the "toughness" of today's players vs >> the players during Jack's eray. This quote by Weekly sums it all up: >> >> >> --"If it's my time to win," Weekley said, "then I'll win."-- >> >> I cannot ever imagine a quote like that coming from the players of >> Jack's era. If you want to win, you have to go out there and take the >> bull by the horns! This reminds me of the line in Caddyshack. "make >> your future, Danny!" >> >> I have gone on record as saying that the all-exempt tour and huge >> prize monies have made today's golfers soft. That single quote from >> Weekly, whom I was rooting for, says it all. Personally, after >> reading a quote like that, I don't want to see him win. The winner >> should be the guy who takes what he thinks he has coming to him. >> Wilson made some clutch putts to keep in the game. If he is to go on >> and win today, he deserves it--unless he has also made some stupid ass >> quote like that of Weekly's. >> >> David > >I don't necessarily agree, David. I think, instead, that Weekley is >doing some good mental game work here, very Zen-like if you ask me. It >goes something like this: > >"If it's my turn to win, then it's a done deal. If it's a done deal, >then all I have to do is go through the motions, doing what I know I >need to do, and it's mine. There's no pressure." > >Very few people can focus on the pressure of winning, and win; good >mental game work allows one to get away from that pressure, such that >now skill wins out, not nerves. > >I really don't think this has anything to do with softness, or >toughness, or anything else like that. So, if he does not win today, he will look back on his putt to win yesterday and say, "it was not meant to be?" Sorry, Mike, I cannot buy off on that. If that is really his mindset, then he should have made a better effort to sink the first putt and not leave himself three feet short. He could have said to himself, "if it is 'meant to be,' then I am going to make a run at birdie." He admitted that his nerves were frayed before he even took a swipe at the first putt. Great athletes in any sport create their opportunities to win and when the opportunity comes they jump on it and give their best efforts. They relish the pressure of delivering the goods, not relying on some spiritual comment that it was, or was not, meant to be. David >Mike
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Date: 09 Mar 2007 10:01:38
From: Alan Murphy
Subject: Re: Why today's players cannot...
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"David" <dgold1958@yahoo.de > wrote in message news:8k7ou2te5f6mirfnvumfvr7hejp19hc7ob@4ax.com... > > Great athletes in any sport create their opportunities to win and > when the opportunity comes they jump on it and give their best > efforts. They relish the pressure of delivering the goods, not > relying on some spiritual comment that it was, or was not, meant to > be. > > David > This is exactly what Colin Montgomery tried to do and we all know that he currently holds the title of best player never to have won a major. He used to declare, before teeing up in the Br. Open, that he had no chance because his game didn't suit links courses. This from a man who learned his golf on links and was the son of the Secretary of Royal Troon, no less. He felt his game, a long high fade, suited Am. Open courses and used to predict that he could win every time he teed up. Close a couple of times and maybe unlucky at Pebble Beach when he was leader in the clubhouse but the weather relented and let Tom Kite in. I agree entirely with Mike, try on every shot and prepare for every major physically and mentally but when it's your week, take it. This is backed up by Probability - a top player playing in 4 majors a year for 30 years, 120 in all - is almost certain to win at least once due to the inevitable Gaussian distribution of luck. When it's your week just sit back and enjoy it and win. I'll never forget the smile on the face of Mickelson the day he won his first major, The Masters. He knew it was his turn to win and nobody enjoyed the moment more than he did. Alan
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Date: 05 Mar 2007 08:38:11
From: Mike Dalecki
Subject: Re: Why today's players cannot...
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David wrote: > On Mon, 05 2007 07:17:02 -0600, Mike Dalecki > <mike@removeclubdoctor.com> wrote: > >> David wrote: >>> There was a discussion about the "toughness" of today's players vs >>> the players during Jack's eray. This quote by Weekly sums it all up: >>> >>> >>> --"If it's my time to win," Weekley said, "then I'll win."-- >>> >>> I cannot ever imagine a quote like that coming from the players of >>> Jack's era. If you want to win, you have to go out there and take the >>> bull by the horns! This reminds me of the line in Caddyshack. "make >>> your future, Danny!" >>> >>> I have gone on record as saying that the all-exempt tour and huge >>> prize monies have made today's golfers soft. That single quote from >>> Weekly, whom I was rooting for, says it all. Personally, after >>> reading a quote like that, I don't want to see him win. The winner >>> should be the guy who takes what he thinks he has coming to him. >>> Wilson made some clutch putts to keep in the game. If he is to go on >>> and win today, he deserves it--unless he has also made some stupid ass >>> quote like that of Weekly's. >>> >>> David >> I don't necessarily agree, David. I think, instead, that Weekley is >> doing some good mental game work here, very Zen-like if you ask me. It >> goes something like this: >> >> "If it's my turn to win, then it's a done deal. If it's a done deal, >> then all I have to do is go through the motions, doing what I know I >> need to do, and it's mine. There's no pressure." >> >> Very few people can focus on the pressure of winning, and win; good >> mental game work allows one to get away from that pressure, such that >> now skill wins out, not nerves. >> >> I really don't think this has anything to do with softness, or >> toughness, or anything else like that. > > So, if he does not win today, he will look back on his putt to win > yesterday and say, "it was not meant to be?" That putt is over. What's important is what happens today. And if he's thinking about winning, he's thinking about outcome, not process, and that's a terrible mental game approach. I'll say it again: Process yes, outcome no. Sorry, Mike, I cannot > buy off on that. If that is really his mindset, then he should have > made a better effort to sink the first putt and not leave himself > three feet short. You ever miss a 3-foot putt? Is there any pro who have never missed a 3-foot putt? If I had to guess (and it's just that, a WAG), he was thinking not about process when he made it, he was thinking about outcome--about the outcome of the tournament. One of the hardest things to do is to learn to think about this shot, this swing, this challenge *here* and not think about what the outcome of the round will be. Sure, you think about that stuff while you figure out what shot to hit, but when you're standing over that ball, you'd better be thinking of nothing but process. This is why it's hard for many people to break into a new scoring range, be it breaking 100 or breaking 90 or breaking 80. They stand on the 16th tee knowing they only have to do ordinary things on the last two holes, and they blow it, because they're thinking about outcome, not process. > He could have said to himself, "if it is 'meant to > be,' then I am going to make a run at birdie." He admitted that his > nerves were frayed before he even took a swipe at the first putt. So he needs some time with Bob Rotella, or Robert Parent, or Deepak Chopra (whose son needs some mental game work so his game doesn't fall apart on the weekends). > > Great athletes in any sport create their opportunities to win and > when the opportunity comes they jump on it and give their best > efforts. Sure, but that best effort also means the best mental effort. You put a good mental game in the head of an 18 handicap, and he'll be able to break 80. And getting your head in the right place is fundamental for doing that. They relish the pressure of delivering the goods, not > relying on some spiritual comment that it was, or was not, meant to > be. I don't see his comment as that. I think he has more work to do on the mental game if he truly was frazzled when he missed that putt, but that's fixable. That's why, btw, sports psychologists advocate a routine before you hit a shot or a putt, so you have some way of getting yourself in the right frame of mind. Mike -- Mike Dalecki GCA Accredited Clubmaker http://clubdoctor.com RSG-Wisconsin 2007: June 22-24----Lawsonia! Website: http://clubdoctor.com/rsgwis2007
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