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Main
Date: 24 Nov 2006 08:59:02
From: annika1980
Subject: What's Wrong with Michelle Wie
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"I know what I have to work on," Wie said. "I'm looking forward
to going home and working on my swing with David Leadbetter."
Michelle just thinks she knows what's wrong with her swing. Wait till
Leadbetter shows her 14 other things that were wrong with it that she
never thought about. I wonder how long until Daddy Wie fires him?
New Michelle Wie MasterCard ad:
Appearance fee for Casio World Open: +$1.5 million.
Flying David Leadbetter to Hawaii for private lessons: -$20,000.
Shooting 81-80 to finish 17-over par (without a birdie), 27 shots off
the lead after two rounds, but leading amateur, Tomomichi Oto, by 1
stroke: PRICELESS!
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Date: 26 Nov 2006 07:16:42
From: annika1980
Subject: Re: What's Wrong with Michelle Wie
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Joe User wrote:
> > Proven wrong? In what sense? I'm one of those who assert that Michelle
> has never learned how to win.
Her problem isn't learning how to win. Her problem is learning how to
play golf.
Her golf has suffered of late. That fact cannot be argued.
The reasons for this are a source for speculaton, however.
Is it her weight gain and her changing body? Has she lost desire since
she turned pro and got the millions? I'd say she has stumbled on the
same path as many other players who finally hit the bigtime with a
Major victory and all the fame and endorsement contracts that followed.
We see that all the time ... a guy wins a Major and then falls off the
planet. But the problem isn't that those guys never "learned to win"
whatever that means.
I think Michelle had the skills of a young Tiger Woods, but she's never
had the desire and inner drive that Tiger (or Annika) has.
> But if she wanted to play golf as a career, if she wanted to be counted
> among the all-time greats, I am among those who say she took the wrong
> path. You don't get better by getting your butt handed to you day in and
> day out. You get better by playing your peers, or playing slightly up,
> and learning how to win.
Yeah, so she should have turned her back on the $20 million and just
worked on her game some more? That plan sure worked out great for Matt
Kuchar.
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Date: 26 Nov 2006 07:02:52
From: annika1980
Subject: Re: What's Wrong with Michelle Wie
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glfnaz wrote:
> > < 45 minutes of windsprints should cure the 2 unearned runs we gave up
> today, if not, the team bullwhip will come out of the closet>
> Lil' glfnaz has the ball in the final tommorrow if we win the Semis..
I hope for his sake that he doesn't choke.
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Date: 26 Nov 2006 08:15:15
From: glfnaz
Subject: Re: What's Wrong with Michelle Wie
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"annika1980" <annika1980@aol.com > wrote in message
news:1164553372.241827.277620@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>
> glfnaz wrote:
>> > < 45 minutes of windsprints should cure the 2 unearned runs we gave up
>> today, if not, the team bullwhip will come out of the closet>
>> Lil' glfnaz has the ball in the final tommorrow if we win the Semis..
>
> I hope for his sake that he doesn't choke.
>
Nope, he's got his mother's big brass balls.
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Date: 25 Nov 2006 17:55:04
From: Ben.
Subject: Re: What's Wrong with Michelle Wie
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On Nov 25, 6:27 pm, John van der Pflum <nowhammymyspa...@bite.org >
wrote:
> On 25 Nov 2006 07:54:01 -0800, "Ben." <komb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Nov 24, 9:51 pm, "annika1980" <annika1...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> glfnaz wrote:
>
> >> > She needs an off season!I blame her dad. You know how these demanding, overbearing parents who
> >> try to re-live their lives through the lives of their children can be.
>
> >Ooooooh SNAP!Sorry -- but Annika has Brad pegged wrong.
Reminds me of the philosophical tenet that you can never truly know
another or their intentions...
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Date: 26 Nov 2006 01:36:26
From: Joe User
Subject: Re: What's Wrong with Michelle Wie
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On Fri, 24 Nov 2006 23:04:11 -0800, multi wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Nov 2006 18:39:26 GMT, "Darrell Jefress" <evely7@tokyo.com>
> wrote:
>>MW has put on a noticeable amount of body weight as she's matured over the
>>past several months. Seems that's likely contributed to the decline in her
>>game.
>
> Same thing happened to me when I was about 16. I lived up north, and
> didn't play at all from October to April. I was shooting in the 80's
> that summer, lifted weights all winter, gained a couple inches in
> height and about 30 pounds of weight, and literally could not hit the
> ball when I came back to the course the next spring. Nothing but
> whiffs.
>
> I assume that Michelle has enough talent to get her game back after
> she's through growing, but she may not. If not, she is still set for
> life, and the people who say she should have waited to turn pro are
> proven wrong.
Proven wrong? In what sense? I'm one of those who assert that Michelle
has never learned how to win. She hasn't won anything since she was 12
years old, unless you count that local tournament she won against a bunch
of also-rans in Hawaii (a 15 year old boy came in second, one stroke
behind Michelle).
If you think she did the right thing because she is now worth millions,
that's fine. It might have ruined her for life in golf, but she is
definitely rich. If that was the point, she succeeded admirably.
But if she wanted to play golf as a career, if she wanted to be counted
among the all-time greats, I am among those who say she took the wrong
path. You don't get better by getting your butt handed to you day in and
day out. You get better by playing your peers, or playing slightly up,
and learning how to win. This is true in all competitions, not just golf.
If you've ever gotten really good in any competitive activity, you already
know this is true. When you were an up and coming sharpshooter, it didn't
help you at all to get stomped by a master, but it DID help to beat the
other up-and-comers.
There is a truism in chess: The hardest thing to learn is how to win a
won game. That's a true statement for all sports.
Maybe Michelle will find a way to overcome this huge disadvantage her
handlers have saddled her with, but if she never breaks out of this slump,
I'll be among those who blame her parents, Nike, and whoever else advised
her in her early teenage years. Blaming it on growth is bullshit. If
she's all that talented, she can surely adjust to wherever her body
ends up. Everybody else does.
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Date: 26 Nov 2006 14:37:29
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: What's Wrong with Michelle Wie
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On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 01:36:26 GMT, Joe User <juser@yourhouse.com >
wrote:
>There is a truism in chess: The hardest thing to learn is how to win a
>won game. That's a true statement for all sports.
>
>Maybe Michelle will find a way to overcome this huge disadvantage her
>handlers have saddled her with, but if she never breaks out of this slump,
>I'll be among those who blame her parents, Nike, and whoever else advised
>her in her early teenage years. Blaming it on growth is bullshit. If
>she's all that talented, she can surely adjust to wherever her body
>ends up. Everybody else does.
Your argument made more sense a couple of years ago (although not
altogether convincing). Her current abilities aren't close enough
that "learning how to win" is an issue.
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Date: 25 Nov 2006 07:54:01
From: Ben.
Subject: Re: What's Wrong with Michelle Wie
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On Nov 24, 9:51 pm, "annika1980" <annika1...@aol.com > wrote:
> glfnaz wrote:
>
> > She needs an off season!I blame her dad. You know how these demanding, overbearing parents who
> try to re-live their lives through the lives of their children can be.
Ooooooh SNAP!
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Date: 25 Nov 2006 19:27:13
From: John van der Pflum
Subject: Re: What's Wrong with Michelle Wie
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On 25 Nov 2006 07:54:01 -0800, "Ben." <kombi45@yahoo.com > wrote:
>
>
>On Nov 24, 9:51 pm, "annika1980" <annika1...@aol.com> wrote:
>> glfnaz wrote:
>>
>> > She needs an off season!I blame her dad. You know how these demanding, overbearing parents who
>> try to re-live their lives through the lives of their children can be.
>
>Ooooooh SNAP!
Sorry -- but Annika has Brad pegged wrong.
--
jvdp
http://www.rsgcincinnati.com
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Date: 25 Nov 2006 20:54:57
From: glfnaz
Subject: Re: What's Wrong with Michelle Wie
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"John van der Pflum" <nowhammymyspammy@bite.org > wrote in message
news:jqnhm2pdtbrj5a7jgm2qjml7ttrnm1k5pk@4ax.com...
> On 25 Nov 2006 07:54:01 -0800, "Ben." <kombi45@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>On Nov 24, 9:51 pm, "annika1980" <annika1...@aol.com> wrote:
>>> glfnaz wrote:
>>>
>>> > She needs an off season!I blame her dad. You know how these
>>> > demanding, overbearing parents who
>>> try to re-live their lives through the lives of their children can be.
>>
>>Ooooooh SNAP!
>
> Sorry -- but Annika has Brad pegged wrong.
> --
>
> jvdp
He's just having fun with me.
If he were out here he'd be at a game or two with his camera.
10-2 today, 3-0 in pool play, outscored the opposition 38-2 in our pool play
games.
24-2 this season.
< 45 minutes of windsprints should cure the 2 unearned runs we gave up
today, if not, the team bullwhip will come out of the closet >
Lil' glfnaz has the ball in the final tommorrow if we win the Semis..
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Date: 25 Nov 2006 10:41:44
From: Skip Lunch
Subject: Re: What's Wrong with Michelle Wie
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very simple - nothing the matter with her - she's a teenager playing
golf - those pushing her beyond reason, now there is something wrong
with the adults she keeps company..they are assholes frankly.
Let the kid grow up - leave the negatives towards the adults and leave
the kid alone.
annika1980 wrote:
> "I know what I have to work on," Wie said. "I'm looking forward
> to going home and working on my swing with David Leadbetter."
>
> Michelle just thinks she knows what's wrong with her swing. Wait till
> Leadbetter shows her 14 other things that were wrong with it that she
> never thought about. I wonder how long until Daddy Wie fires him?
>
> New Michelle Wie MasterCard ad:
>
> Appearance fee for Casio World Open: +$1.5 million.
> Flying David Leadbetter to Hawaii for private lessons: -$20,000.
> Shooting 81-80 to finish 17-over par (without a birdie), 27 shots off
> the lead after two rounds, but leading amateur, Tomomichi Oto, by 1
> stroke: PRICELESS!
>
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Date: 24 Nov 2006 19:51:55
From: annika1980
Subject: Re: What's Wrong with Michelle Wie
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glfnaz wrote:
> >
> She needs an off season!
I blame her dad. You know how these demanding, overbearing parents who
try to re-live their lives through the lives of their children can be.
Besides, Michelle has a lot more than 5 tools, I'll bet.
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Date: 24 Nov 2006 19:18:23
From: annika1980
Subject: Re: What's Wrong with Michelle Wie
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WW wrote:
> What's wrong w/ Ms Wie?
> She's mismanaged, she should have stayed an amature & gone to college.
> Then play w/ THE GIRLS!
Turning down those millions would've been the stupidest mistake since
Daddy Bush didn't pull out of Barbara in time. Wie's management isn't
the problem. It's her play that has declined. Of course it could be
argued that her over-promotion and playing in all these events has had
a negative effect on her performance. The way she's playing right now,
she wouldn't even win on the amateur circuit. She'd be lucky to win The
Big Break.
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Date: 25 Nov 2006 05:20:02
From: S McFarlane
Subject: Re: What's Wrong with Michelle Wie
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"annika1980" <annika1980@aol.com > wrote in message
news:1164424703.709498.52180@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>\
>
> Turning down those millions would've been the stupidest mistake since
> Daddy Bush didn't pull out of Barbara in time.
Do ya think it's so? At this point, she's got to be mind-f___.
Championship-level golf is just out of the question for her unless she
manages to pull out of the mental tailspin, and it's all the money and
pressure that's got her there. I don't know much about Wie, but one thing I
think I know is that she can break 80 just about anywhere, anytime from a
mechanics standpoint.
Would it have been st for Woods to take an easy contract worth a few
million after his third first Amateur win, assuming for argument that it
meant he wouldn't be able to function at the levels demanded by the Tour as
a result? IMO, that's what Wie has done. Woods was ready when he jumped
off the bridge, and Wie wasn't. Why would she be?
Wie's management isn't
> the problem. It's her play that has declined. Of course it could be
> argued that her over-promotion and playing in all these events has had
> a negative effect on her performance. The way she's playing right now,
> she wouldn't even win on the amateur circuit. She'd be lucky to win The
> Big Break.
That's exactly the argument. In terms of Woods' career, she should still be
playing amateur golf with 4 years at Stanford a year in her future. That's
how you develop the mental side of a champion in any sport. 1. Beat the
shit out of the chumps whose parents think they have potential while you're
young. 2. Increase the level of amateur competition nice and easy until
you're beating the shit out of the chumps who are the best the amateur world
has to offer. 3. Take all that bravado you've nurtured over the years to
the big time. Then the world will see if you're really a champ. Wie
skipped step 2, so we might never know if she has what it takes.
At least she's got the bucks...
Scott
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Date: 24 Nov 2006 20:49:01
From: glfnaz
Subject: Re: What's Wrong with Michelle Wie
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"annika1980" <annika1980@aol.com > wrote in message
news:1164424703.709498.52180@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> WW wrote:
>> What's wrong w/ Ms Wie?
>> She's mismanaged, she should have stayed an amature & gone to college.
>> Then play w/ THE GIRLS!
>
> Turning down those millions would've been the stupidest mistake since
> Daddy Bush didn't pull out of Barbara in time. Wie's management isn't
> the problem. It's her play that has declined. Of course it could be
> argued that her over-promotion and playing in all these events has had
> a negative effect on her performance. The way she's playing right now,
> she wouldn't even win on the amateur circuit. She'd be lucky to win The
> Big Break.
>
She needs an off season!
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Date: 24 Nov 2006 15:43:43
From: WW
Subject: Re: What's Wrong with Michelle Wie
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Darrell Jefress wrote:
> MW has put on a noticeable amount of body weight as she's matured over the
> past several months. Seems that's likely contributed to the decline in her
> game. (It's also made her less attractive, in my book, but that's just from
> my angle.)
I wish I was17 & lived on the big Isle w/ Michelle....oh boy! I think
she's a very pretty girl (minus the goldfish lips). Here's a good photo
set of last event, she has gotten thicker. What's wrong w/ Ms Wie?
She's mismanaged, she should have stayed an amature & gone to college.
Then play w/ THE GIRLS!
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/apphoto/wire?id=1106
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Date: 24 Nov 2006 22:17:51
From:
Subject: Re: What's Wrong with Michelle Wie
|
On 24 Nov 2006 15:43:43 -0800, "WW" <dirtymm@msn.com > wrote:
>
>Darrell Jefress wrote:
>> MW has put on a noticeable amount of body weight as she's matured over the
>> past several months. Seems that's likely contributed to the decline in her
>> game. (It's also made her less attractive, in my book, but that's just from
>> my angle.)
>
>
>
>I wish I was17 & lived on the big Isle w/ Michelle....oh boy! I think
>she's a very pretty girl (minus the goldfish lips). Here's a good photo
>set of last event, she has gotten thicker. What's wrong w/ Ms Wie?
>She's mismanaged, she should have stayed an amature & gone to college.
>Then play w/ THE GIRLS!
>
>http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/apphoto/wire?id=1106
Holy shit! Thicker is right! She looks like John Daly!
Craig
"Nothing matters but the weekend, from a Tuesday point of view."
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Date: 24 Nov 2006 18:39:26
From: Darrell Jefress
Subject: Re: What's Wrong with Michelle Wie
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MW has put on a noticeable amount of body weight as she's matured over the
past several months. Seems that's likely contributed to the decline in her
game. (It's also made her less attractive, in my book, but that's just from
my angle.)
"annika1980" <annika1980@aol.com > wrote in message
news:1164387542.779296.171720@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> "I know what I have to work on," Wie said. "I'm looking forward
> to going home and working on my swing with David Leadbetter."
>
> Michelle just thinks she knows what's wrong with her swing. Wait till
> Leadbetter shows her 14 other things that were wrong with it that she
> never thought about. I wonder how long until Daddy Wie fires him?
>
> New Michelle Wie MasterCard ad:
>
> Appearance fee for Casio World Open: +$1.5 million.
> Flying David Leadbetter to Hawaii for private lessons: -$20,000.
> Shooting 81-80 to finish 17-over par (without a birdie), 27 shots off
> the lead after two rounds, but leading amateur, Tomomichi Oto, by 1
> stroke: PRICELESS!
>
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Date: 24 Nov 2006 23:04:11
From: multi
Subject: Re: What's Wrong with Michelle Wie
|
On Fri, 24 Nov 2006 18:39:26 GMT, "Darrell Jefress" <evely7@tokyo.com >
wrote:
>MW has put on a noticeable amount of body weight as she's matured over the
>past several months. Seems that's likely contributed to the decline in her
>game.
Same thing happened to me when I was about 16. I lived up north, and
didn't play at all from October to April. I was shooting in the 80's
that summer, lifted weights all winter, gained a couple inches in
height and about 30 pounds of weight, and literally could not hit the
ball when I came back to the course the next spring. Nothing but
whiffs.
I assume that Michelle has enough talent to get her game back after
she's through growing, but she may not. If not, she is still set for
life, and the people who say she should have waited to turn pro are
proven wrong.
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Date: 25 Nov 2006 18:58:17
From: Steve
Subject: Re: What's Wrong with Michelle Wie
|
>
> I assume that Michelle has enough talent to get her game back after
> she's through growing, but she may not. If not, she is still set for
> life, and the people who say she should have waited to turn pro are
> proven wrong.
Please explain how you know for a fact that IF she had followed the path
that Woods and Sorenstam did, she would not have gone out and won everything
she entered once she turned pro, played well in mens events ended up being
universally recognized as the greatest female athlete ever and ended up
making 10 times the money she will make? Not sure how someone who has been
consistently wrong in your MW predictions in the past can say for sure what
she did do, which so far has been a huge disapointment, was better than what
a lot of people said she should have done.
Clearly the M.W. story is still in the early chapters but even you have to
agree, it is not playing out as anyone had expected. A 3rd straight winless
year, going WD, DFL, DFL, next to DFL in her last 4 open events. Not many
here would have predicted that a year ago.
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Date: 26 Nov 2006 18:03:41
From: multi
Subject: Re: What's Wrong with Michelle Wie
|
On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 18:58:17 -0800, "Steve" <steve@bs-s.com > wrote:
>>
>> I assume that Michelle has enough talent to get her game back after
>> she's through growing, but she may not. If not, she is still set for
>> life, and the people who say she should have waited to turn pro are
>> proven wrong.
>
>Please explain how you know for a fact that IF she had followed the path
>that Woods and Sorenstam did, she would not have gone out and won everything
>she entered once she turned pro, played well in mens events ended up being
>universally recognized as the greatest female athlete ever and ended up
>making 10 times the money she will make?
Annika turned pro at 21, joined the LPGA at 23, and won her first
major at 24. Please explain how you know for a fact that Michelle
won't have several majors by age 24.
> Not sure how someone who has been
>consistently wrong in your MW predictions in the past can say for sure what
>she did do, which so far has been a huge disapointment, was better than what
>a lot of people said she should have done.
The only wrong prediction I recall was that she would make a PGA cut
this year. You are welcome to list the others, if you aren't just
talking out of your ass.
As for her career so far being a huge disappointment, I guess you have
high standards. Personally, I'd be pretty happy with tens of millions
of dollars, several top fives in majors, and being ranked second in
the world at age 16. And even Tiger has slumps.
>Clearly the M.W. story is still in the early chapters but even you have to
>agree, it is not playing out as anyone had expected. A 3rd straight winless
>year, going WD, DFL, DFL, next to DFL in her last 4 open events. Not many
>here would have predicted that a year ago.
Then why rag on me for not predicting it?
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Date: 26 Nov 2006 23:19:04
From: bill-o
Subject: Re: What's Wrong with Michelle Wie
|
On 25-Nov-2006, "Steve" <steve@bs-s.com > wrote:
> > I assume that Michelle has enough talent to get her game back after
> > she's through growing, but she may not. If not, she is still set for
> > life, and the people who say she should have waited to turn pro are
> > proven wrong.
>
> Please explain how you know for a fact that IF she had followed the path
> that Woods and Sorenstam did, she would not have gone out and won
> everything she entered once she turned pro, played well in mens events
> ended up being
> universally recognized as the greatest female athlete ever and ended up
> making 10 times the money she will make?
And how could anyone say that her game wouldn't be suffering as much or more
as now?
> Clearly the M.W. story is still in the early chapters but even you have to
> agree, it is not playing out as anyone had expected.
It rarely does.
--
bill-o
A "gimme" can best be defined as an agreement between
two golfers neither of whom can putt very well.
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Date: 27 Nov 2006 00:35:54
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: What's Wrong with Michelle Wie
|
On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 23:19:04 GMT, "bill-o" <assimilate@borg.org >
wrote:
>And how could anyone say that her game wouldn't be suffering as much or more
>as now?
True believers just know.
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Date: 24 Nov 2006 19:23:31
From: wtrplnet
Subject: Re: What's Wrong with Michelle Wie
|
"Darrell Jefress" <evely7@tokyo.com > wrote in message
news:y%G9h.349246$QZ1.20366@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> MW has put on a noticeable amount of body weight as she's matured over the
> past several months. Seems that's likely contributed to the decline in her
> game. (It's also made her less attractive, in my book, but that's just
> from my angle.)
>
> "annika1980" <annika1980@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1164387542.779296.171720@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>> "I know what I have to work on," Wie said. "I'm looking forward
>> to going home and working on my swing with David Leadbetter."
>>
>> Michelle just thinks she knows what's wrong with her swing. Wait till
>> Leadbetter shows her 14 other things that were wrong with it that she
>> never thought about. I wonder how long until Daddy Wie fires him?
>>
>> New Michelle Wie MasterCard ad:
>>
>> Appearance fee for Casio World Open: +$1.5 million.
>> Flying David Leadbetter to Hawaii for private lessons: -$20,000.
>> Shooting 81-80 to finish 17-over par (without a birdie), 27 shots off
>> the lead after two rounds, but leading amateur, Tomomichi Oto, by 1
>> stroke: PRICELESS!
>>
>
>
I'm all for Michelle being successful wherever she chooses to play. But her
managers better get a handle on what's going on before they break her
spirit. This could quickly stop being fun for her. Too much too soon, put
her on the women's tour where she belongs, even if it means limited play for
another year. When she gets solid there she can do the "exhibition" events,
like Sorenstam has done. Getting beat up all the time is going to ruin one
of the potentially brightest stars golf has ever seen, long before she
really begins to shine. That would be sad.
Alan
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