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Main
Date: 11 Apr 2007 22:42:12
From: The Tman
Subject: Tiger: why didn't he replace the 4i
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This has come up in another a web forum. Why didn't Tiger even attempt
to replace his 4i he broke at the Masters on Sunday? Or did he?
There had to have been some Nike reps still there. Or he must have had
a back-up set. The rules allow for a club to be replaced when broken
during the course of play. And the incident where he broke his club
certainly qualified.
Turns out he could have used it on 15, going for the green in two from
223 having to slice it around the trees. There was just no way that
was going to get there with a 5i.
Did Tiger have a brain-cramp, and not think he could have replaced the
club. Anyone have any insight?
Thanks,
-T
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Date: 13 Apr 2007 05:26:26
From: me
Subject: Re: Tiger: why didn't he replace the 4i
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On Apr 12, 9:42 am, Mike Dalecki <m...@removeclubdoctor.com > wrote:
[snip]
> If losing a club during a round might cost you a stroke--or several,
> depending on when during the round and which club you have lost--then
> why not have a backup set available? That's the part I don't get.
[snip]
Likewise. I don't know how many clubs Tiger goes through a year,
but it wouldn't seem all that hard to develope two relatively
identical
sets of irons and have them kept on the grounds. Anyone of the
folks that I'm sure are on the grounds for Tiger could get the
replacement
fairly easy. Heck, at the very least you'd think he'd want a
replacement
putter available. I'm not talking about Mr 125 on the list. Tiger
and
Nike have a huge investment in those clubs.
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Date: 13 Apr 2007 11:13:39
From: The Tman
Subject: Re: Tiger: why didn't he replace the 4i
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And in Tiger's peak performance.
On 13 Apr 2007 05:26:26 -0700, "me" <oconnell@slr.orl.lmco.com > wrote:
>Tiger and Nike have a huge investment in those clubs.
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Date: 12 Apr 2007 12:45:04
From:
Subject: Re: Tiger: why didn't he replace the 4i
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On Apr 12, 3:04 am, David Geesaman <dgeesamanIHateS...@yahoo.com >
wrote:
> a2mg...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Apr 11, 9:19 pm, Zuke <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> >> I didn't see the incident but it sounds like to me that he snapped
> >> it himself. When he did that it would be kind of hard to prove that
> >> the club had been damaged during the swing. A bad mistake by a
> >> guy who commentators continually point out is always in such an
> >> advanced mindset.
>
> > Please feel free to offer more stupid comments about things you
> > haven't seen. The club was bent like a pretzel after it hit the tree.
>
> And then he completely folded it until it broke into two pieces.
>
> Dave
Correct, but irrelevant. He could not legally use the club once the
shaft was bent even one degree, let alone 45 degrees or more.
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Date: 12 Apr 2007 11:28:44
From: SKIPPER
Subject: Re: Tiger: why didn't he replace the 4i
|
On Apr 12, 1:47 am, The World Wide Wade <aderamey.a...@comcast.net >
wrote:
> In article <up6r13d6h3panjg64ei5o1l20lmerg7...@4ax.com>,
> The Tman <t...@tman.com> wrote:
>
> > This has come up in another a web forum. Why didn't Tiger even attempt
> > to replace his 4i he broke at the Masters on Sunday? Or did he?
>
> > There had to have been some Nike reps still there. Or he must have had
> > a back-up set. The rules allow for a club to be replaced when broken
> > during the course of play. And the incident where he broke his club
> > certainly qualified.
>
> > Turns out he could have used it on 15, going for the green in two from
> > 223 having to slice it around the trees. There was just no way that
> > was going to get there with a 5i.
>
> He used a 3i.
No, he used a 5i, and swung extra hard, because it was "just the
perfect
distance for my 4 I just broke".
But hey, that's only a recollection from standing 10 feet away
from him, could be wrong.
-PA
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Date: 13 Apr 2007 11:58:58
From: John B.
Subject: Re: More outrageous? (NGC)
|
On Apr 13, 2:47 pm, "MnMikew" <mnmiik...@aol.com > wrote:
> "Chris Bellomy" <p...@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid> wrote in message
>
> news:2T40r7jeI4idN34@redshark.goodshow.net...
>
>
>
> > MnMikew <mnmiik...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >> "Chris Bellomy" <p...@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid> wrote in message
> >>news:3T40qvjmI321N34@redshark.goodshow.net...
> >>> Otto <ottondebREMOVE%$#%^%$@@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> >>>> "Chris Bellomy" <p...@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid> wrote in message
> >>>>news:3T40qgogIqjuN34@redshark.goodshow.net...
> >>>>>This guy really does not like
> >>>>> black people.
>
> >>>> Does that break any laws?
>
> >>> It makes him unfit to have a national radio and cable television
> >>> show.
>
> >>>> Did he bring any legal or financial harm down on these gals?
>
> >>> Would I bring any such harm down on you if I got on Westwood One
> >>> and MSNBC and called you demeaning names for no reason after you
> >>> had just accomplished something noteworthy? "That Otto, he's a
> >>> real cracker isn't he? A total inbred white trash cracker."
>
> >>> Better still, what if Snoop Dogg took over the Imus slot and
> >>> starting doing shit like that? Can you even imagine?
>
> >> He'd get a free pass.
>
> > Bill O'Reilly would burn him in effigy every night.
>
> I'd like to see Bill and Snoopy in a UFC ring.-
>
>Snoop would whip his sorry white ass.
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Date: 13 Apr 2007 20:16:04
From: Otto
Subject: Re: More outrageous? (NGC)
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> > I'd like to see Bill and Snoopy in a UFC ring.-
> >
> >Snoop would whip his sorry white ass.
I don't know. O'Reilly is a pretty big white guy.
I think my money all depends on the odds.
The outcome would depend on how stoned Snoop was and whether or not O'Reilly
could get a few good shots in before his sorry white ass wilted from being
overweight and old and out of shape.
Either way, it would be over in less than 60 seconds.
Otto
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Date: 13 Apr 2007 15:44:10
From: MnMikew
Subject: Re: More outrageous? (NGC)
|
"John B." <johnb505@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1176490738.807109.159460@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 13, 2:47 pm, "MnMikew" <mnmiik...@aol.com> wrote:
>> "Chris Bellomy" <p...@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid> wrote in message
>>
>> news:2T40r7jeI4idN34@redshark.goodshow.net...
>>
>>
>>
>> > MnMikew <mnmiik...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> "Chris Bellomy" <p...@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid> wrote in message
>> >>news:3T40qvjmI321N34@redshark.goodshow.net...
>> >>> Otto <ottondebREMOVE%$#%^%$@@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>
>> >>>> "Chris Bellomy" <p...@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid> wrote in message
>> >>>>news:3T40qgogIqjuN34@redshark.goodshow.net...
>> >>>>>This guy really does not like
>> >>>>> black people.
>>
>> >>>> Does that break any laws?
>>
>> >>> It makes him unfit to have a national radio and cable television
>> >>> show.
>>
>> >>>> Did he bring any legal or financial harm down on these gals?
>>
>> >>> Would I bring any such harm down on you if I got on Westwood One
>> >>> and MSNBC and called you demeaning names for no reason after you
>> >>> had just accomplished something noteworthy? "That Otto, he's a
>> >>> real cracker isn't he? A total inbred white trash cracker."
>>
>> >>> Better still, what if Snoop Dogg took over the Imus slot and
>> >>> starting doing shit like that? Can you even imagine?
>>
>> >> He'd get a free pass.
>>
>> > Bill O'Reilly would burn him in effigy every night.
>>
>> I'd like to see Bill and Snoopy in a UFC ring.-
>>
>>Snoop would whip his sorry white ass.
>
Not a chance in hell.
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Date: 12 Apr 2007 14:40:19
From: The World Wide Wade
Subject: Re: Tiger: why didn't he replace the 4i
|
In article <1176402524.342165.281510@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com >,
"SKIPPER" <blakestah@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Apr 12, 1:47 am, The World Wide Wade <aderamey.a...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
> > In article <up6r13d6h3panjg64ei5o1l20lmerg7...@4ax.com>,
> > The Tman <t...@tman.com> wrote:
> >
> > > This has come up in another a web forum. Why didn't Tiger even attempt
> > > to replace his 4i he broke at the Masters on Sunday? Or did he?
> >
> > > There had to have been some Nike reps still there. Or he must have had
> > > a back-up set. The rules allow for a club to be replaced when broken
> > > during the course of play. And the incident where he broke his club
> > > certainly qualified.
> >
> > > Turns out he could have used it on 15, going for the green in two from
> > > 223 having to slice it around the trees. There was just no way that
> > > was going to get there with a 5i.
> >
> > He used a 3i.
>
> No, he used a 5i, and swung extra hard, because it was "just the
> perfect
> distance for my 4 I just broke".
>
> But hey, that's only a recollection from standing 10 feet away
> from him, could be wrong.
>
> -PA
I thought it was a 3i, he was trying a massive fade/slice, the press is
reporting a 3i, that's all I know.
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Date: 13 Apr 2007 10:12:25
From: MnMikew
Subject: Re: Tiger: why didn't he replace the 4i
|
"The World Wide Wade" <aderamey.addw@comcast.net > wrote in message >
> I thought it was a 3i, he was trying a massive fade/slice, the press is
> reporting a 3i, that's all I know.
There is a great picture on this weeks Sports Illustrated showing him snap
it from the front of the tree. Their cover states it was a 4i.
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Date: 13 Apr 2007 12:06:33
From: The World Wide Wade
Subject: Re: Tiger: why didn't he replace the 4i
|
In article <589kuqF2f5hj4U1@mid.individual.net >,
"MnMikew" <mnmiikkew@aol.com > wrote:
> "The World Wide Wade" <aderamey.addw@comcast.net> wrote in message >
> > I thought it was a 3i, he was trying a massive fade/slice, the press is
> > reporting a 3i, that's all I know.
>
> There is a great picture on this weeks Sports Illustrated showing him snap
> it from the front of the tree. Their cover states it was a 4i.
The club he broke on 14 was a 4i. But we're talking about what he used
for his second shot on 15 - it was either a 3 or 5 iron.
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Date: 14 Apr 2007 11:04:16
From: The World Wide Wade
Subject: Re: Tiger: why didn't he replace the 4i
|
In article
<aderamey.addw-E9B360.12063213042007@newsgroups.comcast.net >,
The World Wide Wade <aderamey.addw@comcast.net > wrote:
> In article <589kuqF2f5hj4U1@mid.individual.net>,
> "MnMikew" <mnmiikkew@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > "The World Wide Wade" <aderamey.addw@comcast.net> wrote in message >
> > > I thought it was a 3i, he was trying a massive fade/slice, the press is
> > > reporting a 3i, that's all I know.
> >
> > There is a great picture on this weeks Sports Illustrated showing him snap
> > it from the front of the tree. Their cover states it was a 4i.
>
> The club he broke on 14 was a 4i.
Sorry, I meant the club he broke on 11 was a 4i.
> But we're talking about what he used
> for his second shot on 15 - it was either a 3 or 5 iron.
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Date: 11 Apr 2007 23:14:40
From:
Subject: Re: Tiger: why didn't he replace the 4i
|
On Apr 11, 9:19 pm, Zuke <m...@privacy.net > wrote:
> I didn't see the incident but it sounds like to me that he snapped
> it himself. When he did that it would be kind of hard to prove that
> the club had been damaged during the swing. A bad mistake by a
> guy who commentators continually point out is always in such an
> advanced mindset.
Please feel free to offer more stupid comments about things you
haven't seen. The club was bent like a pretzel after it hit the tree.
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Date: 12 Apr 2007 06:04:23
From: David Geesaman
Subject: Re: Tiger: why didn't he replace the 4i
|
a2mgoog@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Apr 11, 9:19 pm, Zuke <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>> I didn't see the incident but it sounds like to me that he snapped
>> it himself. When he did that it would be kind of hard to prove that
>> the club had been damaged during the swing. A bad mistake by a
>> guy who commentators continually point out is always in such an
>> advanced mindset.
>
>
> Please feel free to offer more stupid comments about things you
> haven't seen. The club was bent like a pretzel after it hit the tree.
>
And then he completely folded it until it broke into two pieces.
Dave
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Date: 11 Apr 2007 22:47:13
From: The World Wide Wade
Subject: Re: Tiger: why didn't he replace the 4i
|
In article <up6r13d6h3panjg64ei5o1l20lmerg7qkh@4ax.com >,
The Tman <tman@tman.com > wrote:
> This has come up in another a web forum. Why didn't Tiger even attempt
> to replace his 4i he broke at the Masters on Sunday? Or did he?
>
> There had to have been some Nike reps still there. Or he must have had
> a back-up set. The rules allow for a club to be replaced when broken
> during the course of play. And the incident where he broke his club
> certainly qualified.
>
> Turns out he could have used it on 15, going for the green in two from
> 223 having to slice it around the trees. There was just no way that
> was going to get there with a 5i.
He used a 3i.
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| |
Date: 12 Apr 2007 01:33:44
From: \R&B\
Subject: Re: Tiger: why didn't he replace the 4i
|
"The Tman" <tman@tman.com > wrote ...
> This has come up in another a web forum. Why didn't Tiger even attempt
> to replace his 4i he broke at the Masters on Sunday? Or did he?
>
> There had to have been some Nike reps still there. Or he must have had
> a back-up set. The rules allow for a club to be replaced when broken
> during the course of play. And the incident where he broke his club
> certainly qualified.
>
> Turns out he could have used it on 15, going for the green in two from
> 223 having to slice it around the trees. There was just no way that
> was going to get there with a 5i.
>
> Did Tiger have a brain-cramp, and not think he could have replaced the
> club. Anyone have any insight?
>
> Thanks,
>
> -T
While I'm sure there were Nike reps milling about in the gallery at Augusta
National, the equipment trucks that you see at most TOUR events (where
players go to get club work done) are not allowed on the grounds at Augusta
National. Even at TOUR events, while those trucks are pretty ubiquitous on
the grounds at the golf course early in the week during practice rounds, the
TOUR requires that they move out before the first round begins each
Thursday.
At The Masters, some equipment companies may bring their trucks to town, but
they're typically parked off the grounds, away from The National.
Players don't typically carry "spare clubs" and store them in the locker
room. If they encounter equipment problems, they will usually wait to
replace a club until after the round. Even if the trucks were on the
grounds, it would be hard to get one built in time -- the epoxy wouldn't
have time to dry.
Randy
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Date: 12 Apr 2007 23:57:56
From: The Tman
Subject: Re: Tiger: why didn't he replace the 4i
|
Thanks, Randy, good info. The Memorial and the Wendy's LPGA event
(unfortunately no longer) are the only tour events I go to on a
regular basis, and I've never thought to notice whether the
manufacturer trucks remain.
Yes, I was thinking more of having a back-up set available also to his
specs (again this is Tiger we're talking about, not your typical pro),
not having something assembled onsite.
-T
On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 01:33:44 -0400, "\"R&B\""
<noneofyourbusiness@all.com > wrote:
>While I'm sure there were Nike reps milling about in the gallery at Augusta
>National, the equipment trucks that you see at most TOUR events (where
>players go to get club work done) are not allowed on the grounds at Augusta
>National. Even at TOUR events, while those trucks are pretty ubiquitous on
>the grounds at the golf course early in the week during practice rounds, the
>TOUR requires that they move out before the first round begins each
>Thursday.
>
>At The Masters, some equipment companies may bring their trucks to town, but
>they're typically parked off the grounds, away from The National.
>
>Players don't typically carry "spare clubs" and store them in the locker
>room. If they encounter equipment problems, they will usually wait to
>replace a club until after the round. Even if the trucks were on the
>grounds, it would be hard to get one built in time -- the epoxy wouldn't
>have time to dry.
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Date: 13 Apr 2007 00:07:00
From: Otto
Subject: Re: Tiger: why didn't he replace the 4i
|
"The Tman" <tman@tman.com > wrote in message
news:9ivt131mh9ppc3r93bni0el6th8u9cb3ui@4ax.com...
> Yes, I was thinking more of having a back-up set available also to his
> specs (again this is Tiger we're talking about, not your typical pro),
> not having something assembled onsite.
I would be very surprised if he doesn't have at least on duplicate of each
club nearby and ready to hit.
Otto
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Date: 12 Apr 2007 07:50:19
From: Mike Dalecki
Subject: Re: Tiger: why didn't he replace the 4i
|
"R&B" wrote:
> "The Tman" <tman@tman.com> wrote ...
>> This has come up in another a web forum. Why didn't Tiger even attempt
>> to replace his 4i he broke at the Masters on Sunday? Or did he?
>>
>> There had to have been some Nike reps still there. Or he must have had
>> a back-up set. The rules allow for a club to be replaced when broken
>> during the course of play. And the incident where he broke his club
>> certainly qualified.
>>
>> Turns out he could have used it on 15, going for the green in two from
>> 223 having to slice it around the trees. There was just no way that
>> was going to get there with a 5i.
>>
>> Did Tiger have a brain-cramp, and not think he could have replaced the
>> club. Anyone have any insight?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> -T
>
>
> While I'm sure there were Nike reps milling about in the gallery at Augusta
> National, the equipment trucks that you see at most TOUR events (where
> players go to get club work done) are not allowed on the grounds at Augusta
> National. Even at TOUR events, while those trucks are pretty ubiquitous on
> the grounds at the golf course early in the week during practice rounds, the
> TOUR requires that they move out before the first round begins each
> Thursday.
>
> At The Masters, some equipment companies may bring their trucks to town, but
> they're typically parked off the grounds, away from The National.
>
> Players don't typically carry "spare clubs" and store them in the locker
> room. If they encounter equipment problems, they will usually wait to
> replace a club until after the round. Even if the trucks were on the
> grounds, it would be hard to get one built in time -- the epoxy wouldn't
> have time to dry.
>
> Randy
>
>
To me, the question is why he didn't have a backup set someplace. The
guy is worth hundreds of millions--it just seems hard to believe that he
wouldn't have backup clubs and a plan in place to deliver them. Maybe
not at all events (though why not?), but at the Masters?
As far as epoxy curing, there are fast-cure epoxies, but you have to
figure it's half an hour to build a club in a hurry, unless you're
trying to frequency-match, in which case it might take longer than that.
Then delivery time. You're probably talking an hour, minimum.
I use the Golfsmith 30/60 epoxy, which is supposed to have a working
time of 30 minutes, and cured in 60. There are faster epoxies than
that, but they're not as good. (And BTW, I switched to that a few years
back when I learned that the Golfsmith club assembly shop was using it
on their component-assembly jobs). I've used a club w/in 2 hours of
assembling it, and it worked fine, but that's still too long a time
horizon to make a club and get it to the player on the course while it
still matters.
It would make much more sense to have already made a backup set ready to go.
Mike
--
Mike Dalecki GCA Accredited Clubmaker http://clubdoctor.com
RSG-Wisconsin 2007: June 22-24----Lawsonia!
Website: http://clubdoctor.com/rsgwis2007
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| | | |
Date: 12 Apr 2007 12:06:26
From: \R&B\
Subject: Re: Tiger: why didn't he replace the 4i
|
I rather imagine Tiger chose his 4-iron because he knew he wouldn't need it.
I mean, where is Tiger going to hit a 4-iron at Augusta National after the
11th hole?
The only place he might need it is on 18, and that's if he hits a Randy
Brown drive off the tee.
Not likely.
Randy
"Mike Dalecki" <mike@removeclubdoctor.com > wrote in message
news:586o8gF2fgcjmU1@mid.individual.net...
> "R&B" wrote:
>> "The Tman" <tman@tman.com> wrote ...
>>> This has come up in another a web forum. Why didn't Tiger even attempt
>>> to replace his 4i he broke at the Masters on Sunday? Or did he?
>>>
>>> There had to have been some Nike reps still there. Or he must have had
>>> a back-up set. The rules allow for a club to be replaced when broken
>>> during the course of play. And the incident where he broke his club
>>> certainly qualified.
>>>
>>> Turns out he could have used it on 15, going for the green in two from
>>> 223 having to slice it around the trees. There was just no way that
>>> was going to get there with a 5i.
>>>
>>> Did Tiger have a brain-cramp, and not think he could have replaced the
>>> club. Anyone have any insight?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> -T
>>
>>
>> While I'm sure there were Nike reps milling about in the gallery at
>> Augusta National, the equipment trucks that you see at most TOUR events
>> (where players go to get club work done) are not allowed on the grounds
>> at Augusta National. Even at TOUR events, while those trucks are pretty
>> ubiquitous on the grounds at the golf course early in the week during
>> practice rounds, the TOUR requires that they move out before the first
>> round begins each Thursday.
>>
>> At The Masters, some equipment companies may bring their trucks to town,
>> but they're typically parked off the grounds, away from The National.
>>
>> Players don't typically carry "spare clubs" and store them in the locker
>> room. If they encounter equipment problems, they will usually wait to
>> replace a club until after the round. Even if the trucks were on the
>> grounds, it would be hard to get one built in time -- the epoxy wouldn't
>> have time to dry.
>>
>> Randy
>
> To me, the question is why he didn't have a backup set someplace. The guy
> is worth hundreds of millions--it just seems hard to believe that he
> wouldn't have backup clubs and a plan in place to deliver them. Maybe not
> at all events (though why not?), but at the Masters?
>
> As far as epoxy curing, there are fast-cure epoxies, but you have to
> figure it's half an hour to build a club in a hurry, unless you're trying
> to frequency-match, in which case it might take longer than that. Then
> delivery time. You're probably talking an hour, minimum.
>
> I use the Golfsmith 30/60 epoxy, which is supposed to have a working time
> of 30 minutes, and cured in 60. There are faster epoxies than that, but
> they're not as good. (And BTW, I switched to that a few years back when I
> learned that the Golfsmith club assembly shop was using it on their
> component-assembly jobs). I've used a club w/in 2 hours of assembling it,
> and it worked fine, but that's still too long a time horizon to make a
> club and get it to the player on the course while it still matters.
>
> It would make much more sense to have already made a backup set ready to
> go.
>
> Mike
>
> --
> Mike Dalecki GCA Accredited Clubmaker http://clubdoctor.com
> RSG-Wisconsin 2007: June 22-24----Lawsonia!
> Website: http://clubdoctor.com/rsgwis2007
|
| | | |
Date: 12 Apr 2007 09:06:34
From: warren montgomery
Subject: Re: Tiger: why didn't he replace the 4i
|
>
> To me, the question is why he didn't have a backup set someplace. The guy
> is worth hundreds of millions--it just seems hard to believe that he
> wouldn't have backup clubs and a plan in place to deliver them. Maybe not
> at all events (though why not?), but at the Masters?
>
> As far as epoxy curing, there are fast-cure epoxies, but you have to
> figure it's half an hour to build a club in a hurry, unless you're trying
> to frequency-match, in which case it might take longer than that. Then
> delivery time. You're probably talking an hour, minimum.
>
Which raises another point, even if it's as well matched as the instruments
can measure every club feels a little different, and I'm not sure I'd want
to pick up a club I had never swung before and use it the first time to hit
a critical shot. Having a spare set that he had already at least practiced
with and trusted would be a reasonable precaution, but the logistics of
getting the club to him aren't easy, and maybe he just didn't think it was
worth having an extra set available which would only be useful if 1) He
broke one in the normal course of play, 2) he needed the same club again and
had no other reasonable way to make the shot and 3) he could get the spare.
That of course raises another question -- Tiger always seems to be planning
ahead. I wonder why he chose that club. As I recall the situation at least
the ball flight wasn't all that constrained, so he could have chosen another
Iron to sacrifice. It has been suggested that Tiger needed the club both on
13 and 15. Since he hit good drives on both holes that was presumably his
normal distance. I wonder why he didn't pick some other club to sacrifice.
--
Warren Montgomery (wamontgomery@att.net)
http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery
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| | | | |
Date: 12 Apr 2007 22:50:33
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: Tiger: why didn't he replace the 4i
|
On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 09:06:34 -0500, "warren montgomery"
<wamontgomery@worldnet.att.net > wrote:
>That of course raises another question -- Tiger always seems to be planning
>ahead. I wonder why he chose that club. As I recall the situation at least
>the ball flight wasn't all that constrained, so he could have chosen another
>Iron to sacrifice. It has been suggested that Tiger needed the club both on
>13 and 15. Since he hit good drives on both holes that was presumably his
>normal distance. I wonder why he didn't pick some other club to sacrifice.
Maybe he was planning on laying up - but only changed his mind when he
was still two strokes down.
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Date: 12 Apr 2007 17:32:53
From: uncle k
Subject: Re: Tiger: why didn't he replace the 4i
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"warren montgomery" <wamontgomery@worldnet.att.net > wrote in message
>................................. That of course raises another question --
>Tiger always seems to be planning ahead. I wonder why he chose that club.
>As I recall the situation at least the ball flight wasn't all that
>constrained, so he could have chosen another Iron to sacrifice. It has
>been suggested that Tiger needed the club both on 13 and 15. Since he hit
>good drives on both holes that was presumably his normal distance. I
>wonder why he didn't pick some other club to sacrifice.
>
No one has mentioned the possibility that maybe TW "thought" the club would
survive the shot. Even if all it did was bend the shaft, that can be
repaired with a dry towel, the first time Steve had a spare minute. Faced
with the loss of his 4-iron, I think he's good enough to improvise with a 3
or 5, versus the BS involved with trying to replace it on the back nine.
When you are forced to use the "wrong" club, you tend to concentrate better.
Tiger already concentrates pretty well...
Unc
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Date: 12 Apr 2007 08:56:21
From: sfb
Subject: Re: Tiger: why didn't he replace the 4i
|
At the top professional level, all clubs are not equal. There are stories of
manufacturers delivering six identical clubs to a pro and the pro claims
they don't all feel the same to them. Unless the pro is willing to devote
practice time to both sets of clubs, a broken club is a challenge to be
faced after the round.
"Mike Dalecki" <mike@removeclubdoctor.com > wrote in message
news:586o8gF2fgcjmU1@mid.individual.net...
> "R&B" wrote:
>> "The Tman" <tman@tman.com> wrote ...
>>> This has come up in another a web forum. Why didn't Tiger even attempt
>>> to replace his 4i he broke at the Masters on Sunday? Or did he?
>>>
>>> There had to have been some Nike reps still there. Or he must have had
>>> a back-up set. The rules allow for a club to be replaced when broken
>>> during the course of play. And the incident where he broke his club
>>> certainly qualified.
>>>
>>> Turns out he could have used it on 15, going for the green in two from
>>> 223 having to slice it around the trees. There was just no way that
>>> was going to get there with a 5i.
>>>
>>> Did Tiger have a brain-cramp, and not think he could have replaced the
>>> club. Anyone have any insight?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> -T
>>
>>
>> While I'm sure there were Nike reps milling about in the gallery at
>> Augusta National, the equipment trucks that you see at most TOUR events
>> (where players go to get club work done) are not allowed on the grounds
>> at Augusta National. Even at TOUR events, while those trucks are pretty
>> ubiquitous on the grounds at the golf course early in the week during
>> practice rounds, the TOUR requires that they move out before the first
>> round begins each Thursday.
>>
>> At The Masters, some equipment companies may bring their trucks to town,
>> but they're typically parked off the grounds, away from The National.
>>
>> Players don't typically carry "spare clubs" and store them in the locker
>> room. If they encounter equipment problems, they will usually wait to
>> replace a club until after the round. Even if the trucks were on the
>> grounds, it would be hard to get one built in time -- the epoxy wouldn't
>> have time to dry.
>>
>> Randy
>
> To me, the question is why he didn't have a backup set someplace. The guy
> is worth hundreds of millions--it just seems hard to believe that he
> wouldn't have backup clubs and a plan in place to deliver them. Maybe not
> at all events (though why not?), but at the Masters?
>
> As far as epoxy curing, there are fast-cure epoxies, but you have to
> figure it's half an hour to build a club in a hurry, unless you're trying
> to frequency-match, in which case it might take longer than that. Then
> delivery time. You're probably talking an hour, minimum.
>
> I use the Golfsmith 30/60 epoxy, which is supposed to have a working time
> of 30 minutes, and cured in 60. There are faster epoxies than that, but
> they're not as good. (And BTW, I switched to that a few years back when I
> learned that the Golfsmith club assembly shop was using it on their
> component-assembly jobs). I've used a club w/in 2 hours of assembling it,
> and it worked fine, but that's still too long a time horizon to make a
> club and get it to the player on the course while it still matters.
>
> It would make much more sense to have already made a backup set ready to
> go.
>
> Mike
>
> --
> Mike Dalecki GCA Accredited Clubmaker http://clubdoctor.com
> RSG-Wisconsin 2007: June 22-24----Lawsonia!
> Website: http://clubdoctor.com/rsgwis2007
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| | | | |
Date: 12 Apr 2007 08:42:51
From: Mike Dalecki
Subject: Re: Tiger: why didn't he replace the 4i
|
sfb wrote:
> At the top professional level, all clubs are not equal. There are stories of
> manufacturers delivering six identical clubs to a pro and the pro claims
> they don't all feel the same to them. Unless the pro is willing to devote
> practice time to both sets of clubs, a broken club is a challenge to be
> faced after the round.
But if they're made to spec, you can do it. When OEMs make clubs, they
aren't making them one at a time to a custom spec--unless they're making
them to fit specific parameters. The clubs *you* can buy are not made
to some specific spec, but you can believe the pros can have clubs that way.
There are stories of Jack Nicklaus getting a bunch of drivers from some
OEM and hitting them until he'd narrowed it down to the best one for him.
Frankly, ask yourself this--if he's going to have to replace his 4-iron
now, which he is, how is he going to do that? Answer: some clubmaker
will build a new one--or perhaps several--to the old specs, and Tiger
will try them out, finding a replacement. No reason why this couldn't
have been done prior to the round.
If losing a club during a round might cost you a stroke--or several,
depending on when during the round and which club you have lost--then
why not have a backup set available? That's the part I don't get.
Mike
>
> "Mike Dalecki" <mike@removeclubdoctor.com> wrote in message
> news:586o8gF2fgcjmU1@mid.individual.net...
>> "R&B" wrote:
>>> "The Tman" <tman@tman.com> wrote ...
>>>> This has come up in another a web forum. Why didn't Tiger even attempt
>>>> to replace his 4i he broke at the Masters on Sunday? Or did he?
>>>>
>>>> There had to have been some Nike reps still there. Or he must have had
>>>> a back-up set. The rules allow for a club to be replaced when broken
>>>> during the course of play. And the incident where he broke his club
>>>> certainly qualified.
>>>>
>>>> Turns out he could have used it on 15, going for the green in two from
>>>> 223 having to slice it around the trees. There was just no way that
>>>> was going to get there with a 5i.
>>>>
>>>> Did Tiger have a brain-cramp, and not think he could have replaced the
>>>> club. Anyone have any insight?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> -T
>>>
>>> While I'm sure there were Nike reps milling about in the gallery at
>>> Augusta National, the equipment trucks that you see at most TOUR events
>>> (where players go to get club work done) are not allowed on the grounds
>>> at Augusta National. Even at TOUR events, while those trucks are pretty
>>> ubiquitous on the grounds at the golf course early in the week during
>>> practice rounds, the TOUR requires that they move out before the first
>>> round begins each Thursday.
>>>
>>> At The Masters, some equipment companies may bring their trucks to town,
>>> but they're typically parked off the grounds, away from The National.
>>>
>>> Players don't typically carry "spare clubs" and store them in the locker
>>> room. If they encounter equipment problems, they will usually wait to
>>> replace a club until after the round. Even if the trucks were on the
>>> grounds, it would be hard to get one built in time -- the epoxy wouldn't
>>> have time to dry.
>>>
>>> Randy
>> To me, the question is why he didn't have a backup set someplace. The guy
>> is worth hundreds of millions--it just seems hard to believe that he
>> wouldn't have backup clubs and a plan in place to deliver them. Maybe not
>> at all events (though why not?), but at the Masters?
>>
>> As far as epoxy curing, there are fast-cure epoxies, but you have to
>> figure it's half an hour to build a club in a hurry, unless you're trying
>> to frequency-match, in which case it might take longer than that. Then
>> delivery time. You're probably talking an hour, minimum.
>>
>> I use the Golfsmith 30/60 epoxy, which is supposed to have a working time
>> of 30 minutes, and cured in 60. There are faster epoxies than that, but
>> they're not as good. (And BTW, I switched to that a few years back when I
>> learned that the Golfsmith club assembly shop was using it on their
>> component-assembly jobs). I've used a club w/in 2 hours of assembling it,
>> and it worked fine, but that's still too long a time horizon to make a
>> club and get it to the player on the course while it still matters.
>>
>> It would make much more sense to have already made a backup set ready to
>> go.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> --
>> Mike Dalecki GCA Accredited Clubmaker http://clubdoctor.com
>> RSG-Wisconsin 2007: June 22-24----Lawsonia!
>> Website: http://clubdoctor.com/rsgwis2007
>
>
--
Mike Dalecki GCA Accredited Clubmaker http://clubdoctor.com
RSG-Wisconsin 2007: June 22-24----Lawsonia!
Website: http://clubdoctor.com/rsgwis2007
|
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Date: 12 Apr 2007 12:07:48
From: \R&B\
Subject: Re: Tiger: why didn't he replace the 4i
|
Mike, believe it or not, you can make several 5 irons to the exact same
specs, frequencies, etc., and I *guarantee* you that nearly 90% of the pros
will find something different in each one.
It may be in their heads. I can't say, since my touch is not as finely
tuned. But I've seen it over and over.
Randy
"Mike Dalecki" <mike@removeclubdoctor.com > wrote in message
news:586rauF2e6v8aU1@mid.individual.net...
> sfb wrote:
>> At the top professional level, all clubs are not equal. There are stories
>> of manufacturers delivering six identical clubs to a pro and the pro
>> claims they don't all feel the same to them. Unless the pro is willing to
>> devote practice time to both sets of clubs, a broken club is a challenge
>> to be faced after the round.
>
> But if they're made to spec, you can do it. When OEMs make clubs, they
> aren't making them one at a time to a custom spec--unless they're making
> them to fit specific parameters. The clubs *you* can buy are not made to
> some specific spec, but you can believe the pros can have clubs that way.
>
> There are stories of Jack Nicklaus getting a bunch of drivers from some
> OEM and hitting them until he'd narrowed it down to the best one for him.
>
> Frankly, ask yourself this--if he's going to have to replace his 4-iron
> now, which he is, how is he going to do that? Answer: some clubmaker
> will build a new one--or perhaps several--to the old specs, and Tiger will
> try them out, finding a replacement. No reason why this couldn't have
> been done prior to the round.
>
> If losing a club during a round might cost you a stroke--or several,
> depending on when during the round and which club you have lost--then why
> not have a backup set available? That's the part I don't get.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> "Mike Dalecki" <mike@removeclubdoctor.com> wrote in message
>> news:586o8gF2fgcjmU1@mid.individual.net...
>>> "R&B" wrote:
>>>> "The Tman" <tman@tman.com> wrote ...
>>>>> This has come up in another a web forum. Why didn't Tiger even attempt
>>>>> to replace his 4i he broke at the Masters on Sunday? Or did he?
>>>>>
>>>>> There had to have been some Nike reps still there. Or he must have had
>>>>> a back-up set. The rules allow for a club to be replaced when broken
>>>>> during the course of play. And the incident where he broke his club
>>>>> certainly qualified.
>>>>>
>>>>> Turns out he could have used it on 15, going for the green in two from
>>>>> 223 having to slice it around the trees. There was just no way that
>>>>> was going to get there with a 5i.
>>>>>
>>>>> Did Tiger have a brain-cramp, and not think he could have replaced the
>>>>> club. Anyone have any insight?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> -T
>>>>
>>>> While I'm sure there were Nike reps milling about in the gallery at
>>>> Augusta National, the equipment trucks that you see at most TOUR events
>>>> (where players go to get club work done) are not allowed on the grounds
>>>> at Augusta National. Even at TOUR events, while those trucks are
>>>> pretty ubiquitous on the grounds at the golf course early in the week
>>>> during practice rounds, the TOUR requires that they move out before the
>>>> first round begins each Thursday.
>>>>
>>>> At The Masters, some equipment companies may bring their trucks to
>>>> town, but they're typically parked off the grounds, away from The
>>>> National.
>>>>
>>>> Players don't typically carry "spare clubs" and store them in the
>>>> locker room. If they encounter equipment problems, they will usually
>>>> wait to replace a club until after the round. Even if the trucks were
>>>> on the grounds, it would be hard to get one built in time -- the epoxy
>>>> wouldn't have time to dry.
>>>>
>>>> Randy
>>> To me, the question is why he didn't have a backup set someplace. The
>>> guy is worth hundreds of millions--it just seems hard to believe that he
>>> wouldn't have backup clubs and a plan in place to deliver them. Maybe
>>> not at all events (though why not?), but at the Masters?
>>>
>>> As far as epoxy curing, there are fast-cure epoxies, but you have to
>>> figure it's half an hour to build a club in a hurry, unless you're
>>> trying to frequency-match, in which case it might take longer than that.
>>> Then delivery time. You're probably talking an hour, minimum.
>>>
>>> I use the Golfsmith 30/60 epoxy, which is supposed to have a working
>>> time of 30 minutes, and cured in 60. There are faster epoxies than
>>> that, but they're not as good. (And BTW, I switched to that a few years
>>> back when I learned that the Golfsmith club assembly shop was using it
>>> on their component-assembly jobs). I've used a club w/in 2 hours of
>>> assembling it, and it worked fine, but that's still too long a time
>>> horizon to make a club and get it to the player on the course while it
>>> still matters.
>>>
>>> It would make much more sense to have already made a backup set ready to
>>> go.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mike Dalecki GCA Accredited Clubmaker http://clubdoctor.com
>>> RSG-Wisconsin 2007: June 22-24----Lawsonia!
>>> Website: http://clubdoctor.com/rsgwis2007
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Mike Dalecki GCA Accredited Clubmaker http://clubdoctor.com
> RSG-Wisconsin 2007: June 22-24----Lawsonia!
> Website: http://clubdoctor.com/rsgwis2007
|
| |
Date: 12 Apr 2007 00:19:42
From: Zuke
Subject: Re: Tiger: why didn't he replace the 4i
|
On Wed, 11 Apr 2007, The Tman wrote:
> This has come up in another a web forum. Why didn't Tiger even attempt
> to replace his 4i he broke at the Masters on Sunday? Or did he?
>
> There had to have been some Nike reps still there. Or he must have had
> a back-up set. The rules allow for a club to be replaced when broken
> during the course of play. And the incident where he broke his club
> certainly qualified.
>
> Turns out he could have used it on 15, going for the green in two from
> 223 having to slice it around the trees. There was just no way that
> was going to get there with a 5i.
>
> Did Tiger have a brain-cramp, and not think he could have replaced the
> club. Anyone have any insight?
I didn't see the incident but it sounds like to me that he snapped
it himself. When he did that it would be kind of hard to prove that
the club had been damaged during the swing. A bad mistake by a
guy who commentators continually point out is always in such an
advanced mindset.
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Date: 12 Apr 2007 14:27:00
From: Frank Ketchum
Subject: Re: Tiger: why didn't he replace the 4i
|
"Zuke" <me@privacy.net > wrote in message
news:Pine.OSX.4.64.0704120015590.11163@ucfilespace.uc.edu...
> When he did that it would be kind of hard to prove that
> the club had been damaged during the swing.
The swing where the club was broken was broadcast on the tv coverage
complete with the club hitting the tree and breaking. Anyway, where in the
rules of golf does it require proof anyway?
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