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Date: 15 Apr 2007 20:15:20
From: Luke
Subject: The ball moved and came back to rest
A regular partner in our group has a distinctive forward
press right B4 he hits. With his irons he sets the club behind
the ball, forward presses and hits. At least once or twice
a round we can see the press seems to rock the ball
a bit, although it does not seem to change its original
position. Usually his press seems to move the grass right
behind the ball, which in turns rocks the ball ever so
slightly forward, then back into what appears to be the
original position.

We tease him about this, but he says if the ball doesn't
change position, there's no harm, no foul. Well, who's
to say the position hasn't changed? Clearly any nudging
of the grass or ball must surely result in an imperceptible
change in its position, at the very least.

We play a lot of tournaments and we think someday someone
is going to call him on this. Is he in violation of the rules?

Luke in Ca






 
Date: 16 Apr 2007 18:51:41
From: dsc
Subject: Re: The ball moved and came back to rest
On Apr 16, 4:51 pm, "dugjustdug" <prestigerea...@yvn.com > wrote:
> On Apr 15, 9:57 pm, The Tman <t...@tman.com> wrote:
>
> > Your partner may have to be careful about 13-2. The club must be
> > grounded lightly, and must not be pressed on the ground. This is what
> > the previous poster might have been alluding to.
>
> I think this is where I was at on the issue. Does the pressing down
> on the turf behind the ball improve his ability to make clean contact
> with the club face?

No... it only increase the likelyhood that the ball wil change
positions.
Very risky and not worth it.



 
Date: 16 Apr 2007 13:51:21
From: dugjustdug
Subject: Re: The ball moved and came back to rest
On Apr 15, 9:57 pm, The Tman <t...@tman.com > wrote:
> Your partner may have to be careful about 13-2. The club must be
> grounded lightly, and must not be pressed on the ground. This is what
> the previous poster might have been alluding to.

I think this is where I was at on the issue. Does the pressing down
on the turf behind the ball improve his ability to make clean contact
with the club face? Judgement call, IMHO. I used to do this until
several years ago when someone warned me that I might get called for
pulling a "Gary Player". I won't do it anymore so as to avoid the
issue.



 
Date: 16 Apr 2007 21:24:41
From: Blagovist
Subject: Re: The ball moved and came back to rest
Luke wrote:
> A regular partner in our group has a distinctive forward
> press right B4 he hits. With his irons he sets the club behind
> the ball, forward presses and hits. At least once or twice
> a round we can see the press seems to rock the ball
> a bit, although it does not seem to change its original
> position. Usually his press seems to move the grass right
> behind the ball, which in turns rocks the ball ever so
> slightly forward, then back into what appears to be the
> original position.
>
> We tease him about this, but he says if the ball doesn't
> change position, there's no harm, no foul. Well, who's
> to say the position hasn't changed? Clearly any nudging
> of the grass or ball must surely result in an imperceptible
> change in its position, at the very least.
>
> We play a lot of tournaments and we think someday someone
> is going to call him on this. Is he in violation of the rules?

No.
Blago


 
Date: 16 Apr 2007 00:57:18
From: The Tman
Subject: Re: The ball moved and came back to rest
Dec. 18/2 basically covers it. If ball "oscillates" at address there
is no breach.

Your partner may have to be careful about 13-2. The club must be
grounded lightly, and must not be pressed on the ground. This is what
the previous poster might have been alluding to.

-T

On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 20:15:20 +0545, "Luke" <luke451@comcast.net >
wrote:

>A regular partner in our group has a distinctive forward
>press right B4 he hits. With his irons he sets the club behind
>the ball, forward presses and hits. At least once or twice
>a round we can see the press seems to rock the ball
>a bit, although it does not seem to change its original
>position. Usually his press seems to move the grass right
>behind the ball, which in turns rocks the ball ever so
>slightly forward, then back into what appears to be the
>original position.
>
>We tease him about this, but he says if the ball doesn't
>change position, there's no harm, no foul. Well, who's
>to say the position hasn't changed? Clearly any nudging
>of the grass or ball must surely result in an imperceptible
>change in its position, at the very least.
>
>We play a lot of tournaments and we think someday someone
>is going to call him on this. Is he in violation of the rules?
>
>Luke in Ca
>


 
Date: 16 Apr 2007 13:53:25
From: david s-a
Subject: Re: The ball moved and came back to rest
Luke wrote:

>
> We tease him about this, but he says if the ball doesn't
> change position, there's no harm, no foul. Well, who's
> to say the position hasn't changed? Clearly any nudging
> of the grass or ball must surely result in an imperceptible
> change in its position, at the very least.
>

For the ball to have moved in this context it has to have clearly taken
up a new position and be at rest in that new position. The question
would seem to be "..Did the ball move or not?..". It is really up to the
player himself to own up if he thinks it has moved.....and if he does so
any doubt on the matter should rule against him. On the other hand, if
the ball has clearly moved then the fact that he touched the grass
behind it places the weight of evidence against the player insofar as he
is deemed to have moved the ball.

If you think he is cheating in denying any movement of the ball then
don't play with him!

cheers
david


  
Date: 15 Apr 2007 22:00:12
From: Luke
Subject: Re: The ball moved and came back to rest

"david s-a" <dsantwyk@bigpond.net.au > wrote in message
news:58gaajF2gm27cU1@mid.individual.net...
> Luke wrote:
>
>>
>> We tease him about this, but he says if the ball doesn't
>> change position, there's no harm, no foul. Well, who's
>> to say the position hasn't changed? Clearly any nudging
>> of the grass or ball must surely result in an imperceptible
>> change in its position, at the very least.
>>
>
> For the ball to have moved in this context it has to have clearly taken up
> a new position and be at rest in that new position. The question would
> seem to be "..Did the ball move or not?..". It is really up to the player
> himself to own up if he thinks it has moved.....and if he does so any
> doubt on the matter should rule against him. On the other hand, if the
> ball has clearly moved then the fact that he touched the grass behind it
> places the weight of evidence against the player insofar as he is deemed
> to have moved the ball.
>
> If you think he is cheating in denying any movement of the ball then don't
> play with him!

I would not call him a cheater by any means, but the ball does seem to
quiver
a bit sometimes. It does not appear to change positions. Does that make
any difference?




   
Date: 16 Apr 2007 21:25:07
From: Blagovist
Subject: Re: The ball moved and came back to rest
Luke wrote:
> "david s-a" <dsantwyk@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
> news:58gaajF2gm27cU1@mid.individual.net...
>> Luke wrote:
>>
>>> We tease him about this, but he says if the ball doesn't
>>> change position, there's no harm, no foul. Well, who's
>>> to say the position hasn't changed? Clearly any nudging
>>> of the grass or ball must surely result in an imperceptible
>>> change in its position, at the very least.
>>>
>> For the ball to have moved in this context it has to have clearly taken up
>> a new position and be at rest in that new position. The question would
>> seem to be "..Did the ball move or not?..". It is really up to the player
>> himself to own up if he thinks it has moved.....and if he does so any
>> doubt on the matter should rule against him. On the other hand, if the
>> ball has clearly moved then the fact that he touched the grass behind it
>> places the weight of evidence against the player insofar as he is deemed
>> to have moved the ball.
>>
>> If you think he is cheating in denying any movement of the ball then don't
>> play with him!
>
> I would not call him a cheater by any means, but the ball does seem to
> quiver
> a bit sometimes. It does not appear to change positions. Does that make
> any difference?

No.

Blago