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Main
Date: 19 Feb 2007 10:37:06
From: Felice
Subject: Taking a Divot?
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This question will certainly show my "newness" to the game of golf, but I
would like to ask it nonetheless.
I would like to understand more clearly why taking a divot is considered to
be so important. Are there other benefits beyond just the "confirmation" of
a proper swing? Didn't I read the Byron Nelson "clipped" the ball without
taking a divot?
Thanks in advance
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Date: 22 Feb 2007 04:17:32
From: Birdie Bill
Subject: Re: Taking a Divot?
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On Feb 20, 9:43 am, "Felice" <delco...@socal.rr.com > wrote:
> Thanks everyone for your responses. They left me with one additional
> question: If 2 players (with equal swings, equal swing speeds, squarely
> struck) took a shot...1 taking a divot, the another not, would there be a
> difference in distance? It seems from the comments that the distance would
> be the same. Do you agree with this conclusion?
No.
Someone who doesn't take a divot can't achieve a smash factor of 1.4
or greater.
They are probably limited to about 1.2 or so. If the swing speed is
the same,
the ball speed is less, so the ball won't go as far.
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Date: 22 Feb 2007 18:04:25
From: David Geesaman
Subject: Re: Taking a Divot?
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Birdie Bill wrote:
> On Feb 20, 9:43 am, "Felice" <delco...@socal.rr.com> wrote:
>> Thanks everyone for your responses. They left me with one additional
>> question: If 2 players (with equal swings, equal swing speeds, squarely
>> struck) took a shot...1 taking a divot, the another not, would there be a
>> difference in distance? It seems from the comments that the distance would
>> be the same. Do you agree with this conclusion?
>
> No.
>
> Someone who doesn't take a divot can't achieve a smash factor of 1.4
> or greater.
> They are probably limited to about 1.2 or so. If the swing speed is
> the same,
> the ball speed is less, so the ball won't go as far.
>
I think Felice meant that the act of taking the divot might take away
from the energy delivered to the ball. The answer is yes, the distance
will be the same, as long as each golfer (divot vs. no divot) will
strike the ball before the club hits the ground. Divots are taken after
the ball has been struck and left the clubface. So yes a divot takes a
little clubhead energy, but it's taken after the clubhead has hit and
released from the ball.
Dave
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Date: 20 Feb 2007 13:03:17
From: KnighT
Subject: Re: Taking a Divot?
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On Feb 20, 10:43 am, "Felice" <delco...@socal.rr.com > wrote:
> Thanks everyone for your responses. They left me with one additional
> question: If 2 players (with equal swings, equal swing speeds, squarely
> struck) took a shot...1 taking a divot, the another not, would there be a
> difference in distance? It seems from the comments that the distance would
> be the same. Do you agree with this conclusion?
>
> "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_b...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1171950122.872071.114370@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Feb 19, 12:37 pm, "Felice" <delco...@socal.rr.com> wrote:
> > > This question will certainly show my "newness" to the game of golf, but
> I
> > > would like to ask it nonetheless.
>
> > > I would like to understand more clearly why taking a divot is considered
> to
> > > be so important. Are there other benefits beyond just the
> "confirmation" of
> > > a proper swing? Didn't I read the Byron Nelson "clipped" the ball
> without
> > > taking a divot?
>
> > > Thanks in advance
>
> > Yes, there is one significant benefit that hasn't been mentioned -
> > smash factor. That is the ratio of ball speed to clubhead speed.
> > If you want to experience smash factors of 1.4 and up with the
> > irons, you need to arrive at impact with lag, with the hands ahead
> > of the ball and the clubshaft leaning forward towards the target
> > and pointing outside the body (NOT at the left shoulder). You
> > need to have impact centered on the fifth groove up from the
> > bottom of the clubface. If you do this, then you will automatically
> > take a divot.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Do yourself a favor and watch this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=LW0BbCzdPOk
This is somebody who really understands the golf swing. I reccomend
episodes 1-5
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Date: 19 Feb 2007 22:42:48
From: Rog
Subject: Re: Taking a Divot?
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"Felice" <delcolle@socal.rr.com > wrote in message
news:45d9edd6$0$28102$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> This question will certainly show my "newness" to the game of golf, but I
> would like to ask it nonetheless.
>
> I would like to understand more clearly why taking a divot is considered
> to
> be so important. Are there other benefits beyond just the "confirmation"
> of
> a proper swing? Didn't I read the Byron Nelson "clipped" the ball without
> taking a divot?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
>
I will never swing like Byron, so zero chance of that happening.
I try to 'see' the bottom of the arc in front of the ball, it improves the
contact but a divot hardly ever happens.
Rog
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Date: 19 Feb 2007 21:42:02
From: Birdie Bill
Subject: Re: Taking a Divot?
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On Feb 19, 12:37 pm, "Felice" <delco...@socal.rr.com > wrote:
> This question will certainly show my "newness" to the game of golf, but I
> would like to ask it nonetheless.
>
> I would like to understand more clearly why taking a divot is considered to
> be so important. Are there other benefits beyond just the "confirmation" of
> a proper swing? Didn't I read the Byron Nelson "clipped" the ball without
> taking a divot?
>
> Thanks in advance
Yes, there is one significant benefit that hasn't been mentioned -
smash factor. That is the ratio of ball speed to clubhead speed.
If you want to experience smash factors of 1.4 and up with the
irons, you need to arrive at impact with lag, with the hands ahead
of the ball and the clubshaft leaning forward towards the target
and pointing outside the body (NOT at the left shoulder). You
need to have impact centered on the fifth groove up from the
bottom of the clubface. If you do this, then you will automatically
take a divot.
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Date: 20 Feb 2007 07:43:26
From: Felice
Subject: Re: Taking a Divot?
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Thanks everyone for your responses. They left me with one additional
question: If 2 players (with equal swings, equal swing speeds, squarely
struck) took a shot...1 taking a divot, the another not, would there be a
difference in distance? It seems from the comments that the distance would
be the same. Do you agree with this conclusion?
"Birdie Bill" <bighorn_bill@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1171950122.872071.114370@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 19, 12:37 pm, "Felice" <delco...@socal.rr.com> wrote:
> > This question will certainly show my "newness" to the game of golf, but
I
> > would like to ask it nonetheless.
> >
> > I would like to understand more clearly why taking a divot is considered
to
> > be so important. Are there other benefits beyond just the
"confirmation" of
> > a proper swing? Didn't I read the Byron Nelson "clipped" the ball
without
> > taking a divot?
> >
> > Thanks in advance
>
> Yes, there is one significant benefit that hasn't been mentioned -
> smash factor. That is the ratio of ball speed to clubhead speed.
> If you want to experience smash factors of 1.4 and up with the
> irons, you need to arrive at impact with lag, with the hands ahead
> of the ball and the clubshaft leaning forward towards the target
> and pointing outside the body (NOT at the left shoulder). You
> need to have impact centered on the fifth groove up from the
> bottom of the clubface. If you do this, then you will automatically
> take a divot.
>
>
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Date: 20 Feb 2007 21:24:08
From: Alan Baker
Subject: Re: Taking a Divot?
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In article <45db16a1$0$27097$4c368faf@roadrunner.com >,
"Felice" <delcolle@socal.rr.com > wrote:
> Thanks everyone for your responses. They left me with one additional
> question: If 2 players (with equal swings, equal swing speeds, squarely
> struck) took a shot...1 taking a divot, the another not, would there be a
> difference in distance? It seems from the comments that the distance would
> be the same. Do you agree with this conclusion?
There are a lot of factors in play and so it is difficult to reach a
conclusion that would be accurate for all clubs, all angles of attack
and all swing speeds.
Clearly, with extreme manipulations, there will be differences in
distance. Just imagine hitting down enough with a long club (thus with
little loft). At some point, the ball will no longer get into the air at
all (it's launch angle will be zero degrees). At that point, it is easy
to see that both shots won't produce the same distance.
But in the more reasonable range, things aren't nearly so simple.
If the club is descending then its speed can be divided into two
components perpendicular to each other: one in the direction parallel to
the ground and one vertical. In which case, for the same velocity, the
component towards the target will be less for a club which is descending.
But that needn't necessarily reduce the distance, because golf balls
spin and combined with their forward speed, that spin produces lift.
So you'd need to do a lot of detail analysis to determine whether a
small change in impact direction causes more or less distance. The angle
for maximum distance almost certainly varies with club head speed.
But for any individual, chances are that small changes in angle will
result in only small changes in distance.
>
>
> "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_bill@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1171950122.872071.114370@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > On Feb 19, 12:37 pm, "Felice" <delco...@socal.rr.com> wrote:
> > > This question will certainly show my "newness" to the game of golf, but
> I
> > > would like to ask it nonetheless.
> > >
> > > I would like to understand more clearly why taking a divot is considered
> to
> > > be so important. Are there other benefits beyond just the
> "confirmation" of
> > > a proper swing? Didn't I read the Byron Nelson "clipped" the ball
> without
> > > taking a divot?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance
> >
> > Yes, there is one significant benefit that hasn't been mentioned -
> > smash factor. That is the ratio of ball speed to clubhead speed.
> > If you want to experience smash factors of 1.4 and up with the
> > irons, you need to arrive at impact with lag, with the hands ahead
> > of the ball and the clubshaft leaning forward towards the target
> > and pointing outside the body (NOT at the left shoulder). You
> > need to have impact centered on the fifth groove up from the
> > bottom of the clubface. If you do this, then you will automatically
> > take a divot.
> >
> >
--
"The iPhone doesn't have a speaker phone" -- "I checked very carefully" --
"I checked Apple's web pages" -- Edwin on the iPhone and how he missed
the demo of the iPhone speakerphone.
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Date: 20 Feb 2007 10:49:04
From: sfb
Subject: Re: Taking a Divot?
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But, the swings aren't equal as they contact the ball and ground
differently.
"Felice" <delcolle@socal.rr.com > wrote in message
news:45db16a1$0$27097$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> Thanks everyone for your responses. They left me with one additional
> question: If 2 players (with equal swings, equal swing speeds, squarely
> struck) took a shot...1 taking a divot, the another not, would there be a
> difference in distance? It seems from the comments that the distance
> would
> be the same. Do you agree with this conclusion?
>
>
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Date: 19 Feb 2007 17:45:34
From: gpsman
Subject: Re: Taking a Divot?
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On Feb 19, 5:58 pm, Alan Baker <alangba...@telus.net > wrote:
> In article <45d9edd6$0$28102$4c368...@roadrunner.com>,
>
> "Felice" <delco...@socal.rr.com> wrote:
> > This question will certainly show my "newness" to the game of golf, but I
> > would like to ask it nonetheless.
>
> > I would like to understand more clearly why taking a divot is considered to
> > be so important. Are there other benefits beyond just the "confirmation" of
> > a proper swing? Didn't I read the Byron Nelson "clipped" the ball without
> > taking a divot?
>
> > Thanks in advance
>
> Taking a divot *isn't* important; not in and of itself.
You've got that much correct...
> Taking a divot only happens because it is the inevitable consequence of
> something that is fundamental to good golf:
>
> Hitting the ball squarely and in the centre of the clubface.
Has -nothing- to do with whether or not a divot is taken.
> To do that consistently is much easier if you hit slightly downward on
> the ball.
No, it isn't.
> If your club comes into the ball on a path that is descending
> slightly, the chance of hitting the ball in the centre of the face
> without accidentally hitting the ground first is enhanced.
The latter part of that assessment makes sense; the former makes no
sense.
> If you don't
> believe me, just ask yourself whether it gets easier or hard to hit the
> ball cleanly as you go from a lie where the ground slopes upwards
> towards the target to one where it slopes downward.
I don't believe you. None of that is relative to whether the ball
contacts the center of the club face.
> So if the clubhead is descending slightly as it hits the ball, it is
> going to continue downward and strike the ground a little.
>
> Simple.
Minded.
If you don't know what you're talking about, or can't express it,
don't confuse neophytes with the idea that taking a divot will promote
center hits, because it doesn't.
-----
- gpsman
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Date: 20 Feb 2007 01:47:48
From: Alan Baker
Subject: Re: Taking a Divot?
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In article <1171935934.296873.320040@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com >,
"gpsman" <gpsman@driversmail.com > wrote:
> On Feb 19, 5:58 pm, Alan Baker <alangba...@telus.net> wrote:
> > In article <45d9edd6$0$28102$4c368...@roadrunner.com>,
> >
> > "Felice" <delco...@socal.rr.com> wrote:
> > > This question will certainly show my "newness" to the game of golf, but I
> > > would like to ask it nonetheless.
> >
> > > I would like to understand more clearly why taking a divot is considered
> > > to
> > > be so important. Are there other benefits beyond just the "confirmation"
> > > of
> > > a proper swing? Didn't I read the Byron Nelson "clipped" the ball
> > > without
> > > taking a divot?
> >
> > > Thanks in advance
> >
> > Taking a divot *isn't* important; not in and of itself.
>
> You've got that much correct...
>
> > Taking a divot only happens because it is the inevitable consequence of
> > something that is fundamental to good golf:
> >
> > Hitting the ball squarely and in the centre of the clubface.
>
> Has -nothing- to do with whether or not a divot is taken.
>
> > To do that consistently is much easier if you hit slightly downward on
> > the ball.
>
> No, it isn't.
>
> > If your club comes into the ball on a path that is descending
> > slightly, the chance of hitting the ball in the centre of the face
> > without accidentally hitting the ground first is enhanced.
>
> The latter part of that assessment makes sense; the former makes no
> sense.
>
> > If you don't
> > believe me, just ask yourself whether it gets easier or hard to hit the
> > ball cleanly as you go from a lie where the ground slopes upwards
> > towards the target to one where it slopes downward.
>
> I don't believe you. None of that is relative to whether the ball
> contacts the center of the club face.
>
> > So if the clubhead is descending slightly as it hits the ball, it is
> > going to continue downward and strike the ground a little.
> >
> > Simple.
>
> Minded.
>
> If you don't know what you're talking about, or can't express it,
> don't confuse neophytes with the idea that taking a divot will promote
> center hits, because it doesn't.
The divot doesn't. The action of hitting down on the ball does, because
you have more gin for error.
> -----
>
> - gpsman
--
"The iPhone doesn't have a speaker phone" -- "I checked very carefully" --
"I checked Apple's web pages" -- Edwin on the iPhone and how he missed
the demo of the iPhone speakerphone.
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Date: 19 Feb 2007 22:58:07
From: Alan Baker
Subject: Re: Taking a Divot?
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In article <45d9edd6$0$28102$4c368faf@roadrunner.com >,
"Felice" <delcolle@socal.rr.com > wrote:
> This question will certainly show my "newness" to the game of golf, but I
> would like to ask it nonetheless.
>
> I would like to understand more clearly why taking a divot is considered to
> be so important. Are there other benefits beyond just the "confirmation" of
> a proper swing? Didn't I read the Byron Nelson "clipped" the ball without
> taking a divot?
>
> Thanks in advance
Taking a divot *isn't* important; not in and of itself.
Taking a divot only happens because it is the inevitable consequence of
something that is fundamental to good golf:
Hitting the ball squarely and in the centre of the clubface.
To do that consistently is much easier if you it slightly downward on
the ball. If your club comes into the ball on a path that is descending
slightly, the chance of hitting the ball in the centre of the face
without accidentally hitting the ground first is enhanced. If you don't
believe me, just ask yourself whether it gets easier or hard to hit the
ball cleanly as you go from a lie where the ground slopes upwards
towards the target to one where it slopes downward.
So if the clubhead is descending slightly as it hits the ball, it is
going to continue downward and strike the ground a little.
Simple.
--
"The iPhone doesn't have a speaker phone" -- "I checked very carefully" --
"I checked Apple's web pages" -- Edwin on the iPhone and how he missed
the demo of the iPhone speakerphone.
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Date: 19 Feb 2007 11:32:23
From: Raj
Subject: Re: Taking a Divot?
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Taking a shallow long divot with irons and some woods/hybrids is important
because it demonstrates a decending blow at impact and a clean
followthrough.
"Felice" <delcolle@socal.rr.com > wrote in message
news:45d9edd6$0$28102$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> This question will certainly show my "newness" to the game of golf, but I
> would like to ask it nonetheless.
>
> I would like to understand more clearly why taking a divot is considered
> to
> be so important. Are there other benefits beyond just the "confirmation"
> of
> a proper swing? Didn't I read the Byron Nelson "clipped" the ball without
> taking a divot?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
>
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Date: 19 Feb 2007 17:17:47
From: Matt
Subject: Re: Taking a Divot?
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"Raj" <peepskipu@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:45d9fb4c$1@news.microsoft.com...
> Taking a shallow long divot with irons and some woods/hybrids is important
> because it demonstrates a decending blow at impact and a clean
> followthrough.
>
Then theres guys like Jack Nicklaus who say not to take deep divots.
Nicklaus believes that you should catch the ball at the widest point of your
arc, and if you're taking big divots, the club is still moving downards.
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