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Main
Date: 27 Sep 2006 03:22:02
From: zumafan
Subject: Shot a 105 yesterday....
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.....100 w/ESC....a course called Oakie-something, I think they're
having a big tournament there next year.....nice place.
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Date: 28 Sep 2006 15:51:06
From: zumafan
Subject: Re: Shot a 105 yesterday....
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annika1980 wrote:
> zumafan wrote:
> > .....100 w/ESC....a course called Oakie-something, I think they're
> > having a big tournament there next year.....nice place.
>
> So where'd ya make all your birdies?
No birdies....
4 pars
4 bogies
4 doubles
3 triples
2 quads
1 quint
Punishment for missing the fairways was swift and severe. One of the
quads was an 8 on the 18 handicap hole. I hit a 3i off the tee to be
safe but pushed it into some really thick stuff. Took me 3 more whacks
just to get it to where I could put a clubhead on it, 2 more to get on,
2 putt for the 8.
My favorite par was the par 3 16th, the blue tees were back on the
championship tee and it was playing about 230. I hit my 17 degree Fli
Hi, it carried to the upslope on the front of the green and still ran
off the back. Chipped on and made the putt. That was nice. In fact, 3
of the pars were on par 3's.
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Date: 27 Sep 2006 21:22:44
From: annika1980
Subject: Re: Shot a 105 yesterday....
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zumafan wrote:
> .....100 w/ESC....a course called Oakie-something, I think they're
> having a big tournament there next year.....nice place.
So where'd ya make all your birdies?
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Date: 27 Sep 2006 16:21:16
From: pete z
Subject: Re: Shot a 105 yesterday....
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JJVP wrote:
> spring wrote:
> > "A Brick in the Wall" <NoSpam@NoThanks.com> wrote in message
> > news:451a43b0$1_3@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> > >
> > > "spring" <s@spring.com> wrote in message
> > > news:PmuSg.9799$zF5.4048@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
> > >> what is ; w/ESC?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> "zumafan" <mgeorg@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > >> news:1159352522.381733.251470@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> > >>> .....100 w/ESC....a course called Oakie-something, I think they're
> > >>> having a big tournament there next year.....nice place.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > > http://golf.about.com/cs/handicapping/a/whatisesc.htm
> > >
> > > Equitable Stroke Control (ESC) is the system put in place by the USGA to
> > > eliminate the effect of "distaster holes." You know, that one hole per
> > > round where you put three balls in the water and then 5-putt. It's also a
> > > way to combat those pernicious sandbaggers who intentionally blow up on a
> > > hole in order to raise their handicaps.
> > > Equitable Stroke Control puts a limit on the number of strokes you can
> > > write down on the scorecard for any one hole, based on your course
> > > handicap. For example, on that one disaster hole you might have taken 14
> > > strokes (get to the practice range, buddy!) to get the ball in the cup.
> > > But based on your course handicap, ESC might require you to post only a
> > > "7" on the scorecard you turn in.
> > >
> > > Taking the "14" might throw your handicap index out of whack.
> > >
> > >
> > > And remember, the handicap index is not meant to reflect your average
> > > score, it's meant to reflect your best potential.
> > > To determine the Equitable Stroke Control limits for your round, you must
> > > first know your course handicap. Once you've determined your course
> > > handicap, you can check the chart down below (which should also be
> > > available at golf courses) to determine the ESC limits.
> > >
> > > Of course, if you have not yet established a handicap index, then you
> > > can't determine a course handicap. And without a course handicap, you
> > > can't determine ESC. But in order to established a handicap index, you
> > > must turn in adjusted gross scores, which requires knowing a course
> > > handicap. What gives?
> > >
> > > Don't worry, the USGA knows what to do. If you do not yet have a handicap
> > > index, then use the maximum allowable handicaps to determine course
> > > handicap and ESC. For men, that means using 36.4 as a handicap index, and
> > > for women, 40.4.
> > >
> > > Here is the chart that shows Equitable Stroke Control limits:
> > >
> > >
> > > Equitable Stroke Control Chart
> > >
> > > Course Handicap Maximum Score
> > > 0-9 Double Bogey
> > > 10-19 7
> > > 20-29 8
> > > 30-39 9
> > > 40 or more 10
> > >
> >
> > Many thanks for that explanation.
> >
> > I count every stroke anyway so I always enter my number no matter what the
> > USGA barks back to me about :-)
> >
> > Bill
> > >
>
> If you have a USGA Handicap, it doesn't matter what you enter, the
> score will be automatically adjusted per the ESC. For example, say you
> are a 15 HC. You shoot a 95 and have 2 holes where your score was 10.
> Based on ESC you max score for any hole is 7. So, although you enter 10
> in the computer for those two holes, your score, for handicap purposes,
> is adjusted and reduced to an 89. The 89 is what will be used for you
> handicap calculation, not the 95. That is to prevent sandbaggers from
> blowing up a hole to keep their handicap high.
>
> http://www.usga.org/playing/handicaps/handicaps.html
>
>
> JJVP
You enter your scores hole by hole? Even away scores? That is
ridiculous.
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Date: 27 Sep 2006 07:46:59
From: JJVP
Subject: Re: Shot a 105 yesterday....
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spring wrote:
> "A Brick in the Wall" <NoSpam@NoThanks.com> wrote in message
> news:451a43b0$1_3@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> >
> > "spring" <s@spring.com> wrote in message
> > news:PmuSg.9799$zF5.4048@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
> >> what is ; w/ESC?
> >>
> >>
> >> "zumafan" <mgeorg@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:1159352522.381733.251470@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> >>> .....100 w/ESC....a course called Oakie-something, I think they're
> >>> having a big tournament there next year.....nice place.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > http://golf.about.com/cs/handicapping/a/whatisesc.htm
> >
> > Equitable Stroke Control (ESC) is the system put in place by the USGA to
> > eliminate the effect of "distaster holes." You know, that one hole per
> > round where you put three balls in the water and then 5-putt. It's also a
> > way to combat those pernicious sandbaggers who intentionally blow up on a
> > hole in order to raise their handicaps.
> > Equitable Stroke Control puts a limit on the number of strokes you can
> > write down on the scorecard for any one hole, based on your course
> > handicap. For example, on that one disaster hole you might have taken 14
> > strokes (get to the practice range, buddy!) to get the ball in the cup.
> > But based on your course handicap, ESC might require you to post only a
> > "7" on the scorecard you turn in.
> >
> > Taking the "14" might throw your handicap index out of whack.
> >
> >
> > And remember, the handicap index is not meant to reflect your average
> > score, it's meant to reflect your best potential.
> > To determine the Equitable Stroke Control limits for your round, you must
> > first know your course handicap. Once you've determined your course
> > handicap, you can check the chart down below (which should also be
> > available at golf courses) to determine the ESC limits.
> >
> > Of course, if you have not yet established a handicap index, then you
> > can't determine a course handicap. And without a course handicap, you
> > can't determine ESC. But in order to established a handicap index, you
> > must turn in adjusted gross scores, which requires knowing a course
> > handicap. What gives?
> >
> > Don't worry, the USGA knows what to do. If you do not yet have a handicap
> > index, then use the maximum allowable handicaps to determine course
> > handicap and ESC. For men, that means using 36.4 as a handicap index, and
> > for women, 40.4.
> >
> > Here is the chart that shows Equitable Stroke Control limits:
> >
> >
> > Equitable Stroke Control Chart
> >
> > Course Handicap Maximum Score
> > 0-9 Double Bogey
> > 10-19 7
> > 20-29 8
> > 30-39 9
> > 40 or more 10
> >
>
> Many thanks for that explanation.
>
> I count every stroke anyway so I always enter my number no matter what the
> USGA barks back to me about :-)
>
> Bill
> >
If you have a USGA Handicap, it doesn't matter what you enter, the
score will be automatically adjusted per the ESC. For example, say you
are a 15 HC. You shoot a 95 and have 2 holes where your score was 10.
Based on ESC you max score for any hole is 7. So, although you enter 10
in the computer for those two holes, your score, for handicap purposes,
is adjusted and reduced to an 89. The 89 is what will be used for you
handicap calculation, not the 95. That is to prevent sandbaggers from
blowing up a hole to keep their handicap high.
http://www.usga.org/playing/handicaps/handicaps.html
JJVP
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Date: 28 Sep 2006 04:25:03
From: Peter Strauss
Subject: Re: Shot a 105 yesterday....
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On 27 Sep 2006 07:46:59 -0700, "JJVP" <jjvp10@gmail.com > wrote:
>
> spring wrote:
> > "A Brick in the Wall" <NoSpam@NoThanks.com> wrote in message
> > news:451a43b0$1_3@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> > >
> > > "spring" <s@spring.com> wrote in message
> > > news:PmuSg.9799$zF5.4048@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
> > >> what is ; w/ESC?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> "zumafan" <mgeorg@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > >> news:1159352522.381733.251470@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> > >>> .....100 w/ESC....a course called Oakie-something, I think they're
> > >>> having a big tournament there next year.....nice place.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > > http://golf.about.com/cs/handicapping/a/whatisesc.htm
> > >
> > > Equitable Stroke Control (ESC) is the system put in place by the USGA to
> > > eliminate the effect of "distaster holes." You know, that one hole per
> > > round where you put three balls in the water and then 5-putt. It's also a
> > > way to combat those pernicious sandbaggers who intentionally blow up on a
> > > hole in order to raise their handicaps.
> > > Equitable Stroke Control puts a limit on the number of strokes you can
> > > write down on the scorecard for any one hole, based on your course
> > > handicap. For example, on that one disaster hole you might have taken 14
> > > strokes (get to the practice range, buddy!) to get the ball in the cup.
> > > But based on your course handicap, ESC might require you to post only a
> > > "7" on the scorecard you turn in.
> > >
> > > Taking the "14" might throw your handicap index out of whack.
> > >
> > >
> > > And remember, the handicap index is not meant to reflect your average
> > > score, it's meant to reflect your best potential.
> > > To determine the Equitable Stroke Control limits for your round, you must
> > > first know your course handicap. Once you've determined your course
> > > handicap, you can check the chart down below (which should also be
> > > available at golf courses) to determine the ESC limits.
> > >
> > > Of course, if you have not yet established a handicap index, then you
> > > can't determine a course handicap. And without a course handicap, you
> > > can't determine ESC. But in order to established a handicap index, you
> > > must turn in adjusted gross scores, which requires knowing a course
> > > handicap. What gives?
> > >
> > > Don't worry, the USGA knows what to do. If you do not yet have a handicap
> > > index, then use the maximum allowable handicaps to determine course
> > > handicap and ESC. For men, that means using 36.4 as a handicap index, and
> > > for women, 40.4.
> > >
> > > Here is the chart that shows Equitable Stroke Control limits:
> > >
> > >
> > > Equitable Stroke Control Chart
> > >
> > > Course Handicap Maximum Score
> > > 0-9 Double Bogey
> > > 10-19 7
> > > 20-29 8
> > > 30-39 9
> > > 40 or more 10
> > >
> >
> > Many thanks for that explanation.
> >
> > I count every stroke anyway so I always enter my number no matter what the
> > USGA barks back to me about :-)
> >
> > Bill
> > >
>
> If you have a USGA Handicap, it doesn't matter what you enter, the
> score will be automatically adjusted per the ESC. For example, say you
> are a 15 HC. You shoot a 95 and have 2 holes where your score was 10.
> Based on ESC you max score for any hole is 7. So, although you enter 10
> in the computer for those two holes, your score, for handicap purposes,
> is adjusted and reduced to an 89. The 89 is what will be used for you
> handicap calculation, not the 95. That is to prevent sandbaggers from
> blowing up a hole to keep their handicap high.
>
> http://www.usga.org/playing/handicaps/handicaps.html
>
That's true if your local association permits hole-by-hole scoring.
In Northern California, the NCGA doesn't allow that, and we have to
post our ESC totals for the round.
Whole lotta sandbaggin' goin' on in NoCal!
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Date: 27 Sep 2006 22:13:23
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: Shot a 105 yesterday....
|
On 27 Sep 2006 07:46:59 -0700, "JJVP" <jjvp10@gmail.com > wrote:
>If you have a USGA Handicap, it doesn't matter what you enter, the
>score will be automatically adjusted per the ESC. For example, say you
>are a 15 HC. You shoot a 95 and have 2 holes where your score was 10.
>Based on ESC you max score for any hole is 7. So, although you enter 10
>in the computer for those two holes, your score, for handicap purposes,
>is adjusted and reduced to an 89. The 89 is what will be used for you
>handicap calculation, not the 95. That is to prevent sandbaggers from
>blowing up a hole to keep their handicap high.
Not with my course's computer - it only asks for one score. It has
no way of knowing whether I scored 3-3-10 or 5-5-6.
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Date: 27 Sep 2006 21:36:25
From: Dave Lee
Subject: Re: Shot a 105 yesterday....
|
"JJVP" <jjvp10@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1159368419.078839.237630@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> spring wrote:
> > "A Brick in the Wall" <NoSpam@NoThanks.com> wrote in message
> > news:451a43b0$1_3@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> > >
> > > "spring" <s@spring.com> wrote in message
> > > news:PmuSg.9799$zF5.4048@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
> > >> what is ; w/ESC?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> "zumafan" <mgeorg@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > >> news:1159352522.381733.251470@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> > >>> .....100 w/ESC....a course called Oakie-something, I think they're
> > >>> having a big tournament there next year.....nice place.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > > http://golf.about.com/cs/handicapping/a/whatisesc.htm
> > >
> > > Equitable Stroke Control (ESC) is the system put in place by the USGA
to
> > > eliminate the effect of "distaster holes." You know, that one hole per
> > > round where you put three balls in the water and then 5-putt. It's
also a
> > > way to combat those pernicious sandbaggers who intentionally blow up
on a
> > > hole in order to raise their handicaps.
> > > Equitable Stroke Control puts a limit on the number of strokes you can
> > > write down on the scorecard for any one hole, based on your course
> > > handicap. For example, on that one disaster hole you might have taken
14
> > > strokes (get to the practice range, buddy!) to get the ball in the
cup.
> > > But based on your course handicap, ESC might require you to post only
a
> > > "7" on the scorecard you turn in.
> > >
> > > Taking the "14" might throw your handicap index out of whack.
> > >
> > >
> > > And remember, the handicap index is not meant to reflect your average
> > > score, it's meant to reflect your best potential.
> > > To determine the Equitable Stroke Control limits for your round, you
must
> > > first know your course handicap. Once you've determined your course
> > > handicap, you can check the chart down below (which should also be
> > > available at golf courses) to determine the ESC limits.
> > >
> > > Of course, if you have not yet established a handicap index, then you
> > > can't determine a course handicap. And without a course handicap, you
> > > can't determine ESC. But in order to established a handicap index, you
> > > must turn in adjusted gross scores, which requires knowing a course
> > > handicap. What gives?
> > >
> > > Don't worry, the USGA knows what to do. If you do not yet have a
handicap
> > > index, then use the maximum allowable handicaps to determine course
> > > handicap and ESC. For men, that means using 36.4 as a handicap index,
and
> > > for women, 40.4.
> > >
> > > Here is the chart that shows Equitable Stroke Control limits:
> > >
> > >
> > > Equitable Stroke Control Chart
> > >
> > > Course Handicap Maximum Score
> > > 0-9 Double Bogey
> > > 10-19 7
> > > 20-29 8
> > > 30-39 9
> > > 40 or more 10
> > >
> >
> > Many thanks for that explanation.
> >
> > I count every stroke anyway so I always enter my number no matter what
the
> > USGA barks back to me about :-)
> >
> > Bill
> > >
>
> If you have a USGA Handicap, it doesn't matter what you enter, the
> score will be automatically adjusted per the ESC. For example, say you
> are a 15 HC. You shoot a 95 and have 2 holes where your score was 10.
> Based on ESC you max score for any hole is 7. So, although you enter 10
> in the computer for those two holes, your score, for handicap purposes,
> is adjusted and reduced to an 89. The 89 is what will be used for you
> handicap calculation, not the 95. That is to prevent sandbaggers from
> blowing up a hole to keep their handicap high.
>
> http://www.usga.org/playing/handicaps/handicaps.html
>
>
> JJVP
>
The only handicap systems that I have experience with simply accept the
final/gross (with ESC adjustments) 18 hole scores (plus course
identification and/or slope/rating). How common is it to have to enter every
single hole score for every round? Seems like a royal pain to me. Our club
would have to acquire a whole bunch of new computers, I would think. The
four that we have can get backed up at times.
dave
|
| | | |
Date: 27 Sep 2006 21:17:15
From: A Brick in the Wall
Subject: Re: Shot a 105 yesterday....
|
"Dave Lee" <DaveLeeNC@ix.netcom.RemovE.com > wrote in message
news:t9CSg.13445$v%4.1737@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "JJVP" <jjvp10@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1159368419.078839.237630@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> spring wrote:
>> > "A Brick in the Wall" <NoSpam@NoThanks.com> wrote in message
>> > news:451a43b0$1_3@newsfeed.slurp.net...
>> > >
>> > > "spring" <s@spring.com> wrote in message
>> > > news:PmuSg.9799$zF5.4048@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
>> > >> what is ; w/ESC?
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> "zumafan" <mgeorg@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> > >> news:1159352522.381733.251470@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>> > >>> .....100 w/ESC....a course called Oakie-something, I think they're
>> > >>> having a big tournament there next year.....nice place.
>> > >>>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > > http://golf.about.com/cs/handicapping/a/whatisesc.htm
>> > >
>> > > Equitable Stroke Control (ESC) is the system put in place by the USGA
> to
>> > > eliminate the effect of "distaster holes." You know, that one hole
>> > > per
>> > > round where you put three balls in the water and then 5-putt. It's
> also a
>> > > way to combat those pernicious sandbaggers who intentionally blow up
> on a
>> > > hole in order to raise their handicaps.
>> > > Equitable Stroke Control puts a limit on the number of strokes you
>> > > can
>> > > write down on the scorecard for any one hole, based on your course
>> > > handicap. For example, on that one disaster hole you might have taken
> 14
>> > > strokes (get to the practice range, buddy!) to get the ball in the
> cup.
>> > > But based on your course handicap, ESC might require you to post only
> a
>> > > "7" on the scorecard you turn in.
>> > >
>> > > Taking the "14" might throw your handicap index out of whack.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > And remember, the handicap index is not meant to reflect your average
>> > > score, it's meant to reflect your best potential.
>> > > To determine the Equitable Stroke Control limits for your round, you
> must
>> > > first know your course handicap. Once you've determined your course
>> > > handicap, you can check the chart down below (which should also be
>> > > available at golf courses) to determine the ESC limits.
>> > >
>> > > Of course, if you have not yet established a handicap index, then you
>> > > can't determine a course handicap. And without a course handicap, you
>> > > can't determine ESC. But in order to established a handicap index,
>> > > you
>> > > must turn in adjusted gross scores, which requires knowing a course
>> > > handicap. What gives?
>> > >
>> > > Don't worry, the USGA knows what to do. If you do not yet have a
> handicap
>> > > index, then use the maximum allowable handicaps to determine course
>> > > handicap and ESC. For men, that means using 36.4 as a handicap index,
> and
>> > > for women, 40.4.
>> > >
>> > > Here is the chart that shows Equitable Stroke Control limits:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Equitable Stroke Control Chart
>> > >
>> > > Course Handicap Maximum Score
>> > > 0-9 Double Bogey
>> > > 10-19 7
>> > > 20-29 8
>> > > 30-39 9
>> > > 40 or more 10
>> > >
>> >
>> > Many thanks for that explanation.
>> >
>> > I count every stroke anyway so I always enter my number no matter what
> the
>> > USGA barks back to me about :-)
>> >
>> > Bill
>> > >
>>
>> If you have a USGA Handicap, it doesn't matter what you enter, the
>> score will be automatically adjusted per the ESC. For example, say you
>> are a 15 HC. You shoot a 95 and have 2 holes where your score was 10.
>> Based on ESC you max score for any hole is 7. So, although you enter 10
>> in the computer for those two holes, your score, for handicap purposes,
>> is adjusted and reduced to an 89. The 89 is what will be used for you
>> handicap calculation, not the 95. That is to prevent sandbaggers from
>> blowing up a hole to keep their handicap high.
>>
>> http://www.usga.org/playing/handicaps/handicaps.html
>>
>>
>> JJVP
>>
>
> The only handicap systems that I have experience with simply accept the
> final/gross (with ESC adjustments) 18 hole scores (plus course
> identification and/or slope/rating). How common is it to have to enter
> every
> single hole score for every round? Seems like a royal pain to me. Our club
> would have to acquire a whole bunch of new computers, I would think. The
> four that we have can get backed up at times.
>
> dave
>
>
Same here -- in the old days we turned in our cards & the handicap
chairperson made the adjustments -- but now we enter our own scores on the
PC in the pro shop...
|
| | | |
Date: 27 Sep 2006 21:47:17
From: 3putt
Subject: Re: Shot a 105 yesterday....
|
>
> The only handicap systems that I have experience with simply accept the
> final/gross (with ESC adjustments) 18 hole scores (plus course
> identification and/or slope/rating). How common is it to have to enter
> every
> single hole score for every round? Seems like a royal pain to me. Our club
> would have to acquire a whole bunch of new computers, I would think. The
> four that we have can get backed up at times.
>
> dave
>
The adjustment is made before the total score is entered. But then, some
have been known to make the adjustment on their cards hole-by-hole. To tie
up a pro shop computer by putting in the scores hole by hole is really
stupid. (unless JVDP is talking about his home computer.)
|
| | | | |
Date: 27 Sep 2006 18:20:45
From: Bobby Knight
Subject: Re: Shot a 105 yesterday....
|
On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 21:47:17 GMT, "3putt" <golf24/7@golfing.com >
wrote:
>>
>> The only handicap systems that I have experience with simply accept the
>> final/gross (with ESC adjustments) 18 hole scores (plus course
>> identification and/or slope/rating). How common is it to have to enter
>> every
>> single hole score for every round? Seems like a royal pain to me. Our club
>> would have to acquire a whole bunch of new computers, I would think. The
>> four that we have can get backed up at times.
>>
>> dave
>>
>The adjustment is made before the total score is entered. But then, some
>have been known to make the adjustment on their cards hole-by-hole. To tie
>up a pro shop computer by putting in the scores hole by hole is really
>stupid. (unless JVDP is talking about his home computer.)
>
Our pro always enters the score hole-by-hole. We aren't responsible
for adding for the total. That's what the pro shop computer is for
anyway.
___,
\o
|
| | |
Date: 27 Sep 2006 11:13:00
From: spring
Subject: Re: Shot a 105 yesterday....
|
"JJVP" <jjvp10@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1159368419.078839.237630@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> spring wrote:
>> "A Brick in the Wall" <NoSpam@NoThanks.com> wrote in message
>> news:451a43b0$1_3@newsfeed.slurp.net...
>> >
>> > "spring" <s@spring.com> wrote in message
>> > news:PmuSg.9799$zF5.4048@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
>> >> what is ; w/ESC?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> "zumafan" <mgeorg@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:1159352522.381733.251470@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>> >>> .....100 w/ESC....a course called Oakie-something, I think they're
>> >>> having a big tournament there next year.....nice place.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > http://golf.about.com/cs/handicapping/a/whatisesc.htm
>> >
>> > Equitable Stroke Control (ESC) is the system put in place by the USGA
>> > to
>> > eliminate the effect of "distaster holes." You know, that one hole per
>> > round where you put three balls in the water and then 5-putt. It's also
>> > a
>> > way to combat those pernicious sandbaggers who intentionally blow up on
>> > a
>> > hole in order to raise their handicaps.
>> > Equitable Stroke Control puts a limit on the number of strokes you can
>> > write down on the scorecard for any one hole, based on your course
>> > handicap. For example, on that one disaster hole you might have taken
>> > 14
>> > strokes (get to the practice range, buddy!) to get the ball in the cup.
>> > But based on your course handicap, ESC might require you to post only a
>> > "7" on the scorecard you turn in.
>> >
>> > Taking the "14" might throw your handicap index out of whack.
>> >
>> >
>> > And remember, the handicap index is not meant to reflect your average
>> > score, it's meant to reflect your best potential.
>> > To determine the Equitable Stroke Control limits for your round, you
>> > must
>> > first know your course handicap. Once you've determined your course
>> > handicap, you can check the chart down below (which should also be
>> > available at golf courses) to determine the ESC limits.
>> >
>> > Of course, if you have not yet established a handicap index, then you
>> > can't determine a course handicap. And without a course handicap, you
>> > can't determine ESC. But in order to established a handicap index, you
>> > must turn in adjusted gross scores, which requires knowing a course
>> > handicap. What gives?
>> >
>> > Don't worry, the USGA knows what to do. If you do not yet have a
>> > handicap
>> > index, then use the maximum allowable handicaps to determine course
>> > handicap and ESC. For men, that means using 36.4 as a handicap index,
>> > and
>> > for women, 40.4.
>> >
>> > Here is the chart that shows Equitable Stroke Control limits:
>> >
>> >
>> > Equitable Stroke Control Chart
>> >
>> > Course Handicap Maximum Score
>> > 0-9 Double Bogey
>> > 10-19 7
>> > 20-29 8
>> > 30-39 9
>> > 40 or more 10
>> >
>>
>> Many thanks for that explanation.
>>
>> I count every stroke anyway so I always enter my number no matter what
>> the
>> USGA barks back to me about :-)
>>
>> Bill
>> >
>
> If you have a USGA Handicap, it doesn't matter what you enter, the
> score will be automatically adjusted per the ESC. For example, say you
> are a 15 HC. You shoot a 95 and have 2 holes where your score was 10.
> Based on ESC you max score for any hole is 7. So, although you enter 10
> in the computer for those two holes, your score, for handicap purposes,
> is adjusted and reduced to an 89. The 89 is what will be used for you
> handicap calculation, not the 95. That is to prevent sandbaggers from
> blowing up a hole to keep their handicap high.
>
> http://www.usga.org/playing/handicaps/handicaps.html
>
>
> JJVP
>
Understood. Although I recall entering a score once and the system came back
and said something like it was too high for given HCAP-- are you sure? I
said yes of course. But as you said it made the adjustment was made
automatically.
thanks
Bill
|
| |
Date: 27 Sep 2006 07:16:54
From: zumafan
Subject: Re: Shot a 105 yesterday....
|
Howard Brazee wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 09:01:01 -0400, "A Brick in the Wall"
> <NoSpam@NoThanks.com> wrote:
>
> >> what is ; w/ESC?
>
> So it either stands for "with ESC" or for "without ESC". When the
> two choices have the same abbreviation, abbreviations don't work.
I've never seen w/ stand for without.
w/ = with
w/o = without
|
| |
Date: 27 Sep 2006 06:13:04
From: zumafan
Subject: Re: Shot a 105 yesterday....
|
3putt wrote:
> "zumafan" <mgeorg@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1159352522.381733.251470@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> > .....100 w/ESC....a course called Oakie-something, I think they're
> > having a big tournament there next year.....nice place.
> >
> Hope that wasn't your personal best.
It is at that course! And my worse.
|
| |
Date: 27 Sep 2006 06:12:01
From: zumafan
Subject: Re: Shot a 105 yesterday....
|
David Sneddon wrote:
> You made it there!!!! That was the Golf Assn League thing you were
> talking about at Ohio - right???
Pittsburgh Golfer's Tour. It was originally going to be two foursomes
on 3 consecutive Tuesdays. Each Tuesday would be our host + 7 guys from
the PGT. Then word came down that we had to play with our host so that
meant only 1 4-some each day. Nine guys, I was #10. One guy dropped out
and I got his spot.
|
| | |
Date: 27 Sep 2006 13:15:11
From: Carbon
Subject: Re: Exactly WHY are we in IRAQ?
|
On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 06:49:27 +0000, bill-o wrote:
> On 26-Sep-2006, Carbon <nobrac@nospam.verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> Obviously they have completely and totally failed at that
>
> One has only failed when they have given up, this is obviously not the
> case.
Bush and his handlers can stay the course all they want. Other than
wasting more billions and the lives of more American troops, they are not
going to change the outcome. The Iraq war has turned into a hopeless
quagmire, just like Vietnam did. And of course, just like the Soviet
invasion of Afghanistan.
|
| |
Date: 27 Sep 2006 06:08:42
From: zumafan
Subject: Re: Shot a 105 yesterday....
|
Aress Gee wrote:
> How were the greens; I hear they keep 'em
> quick at that track?
>
Very fast, very nice. I had a caddie I could trust and putted very well.
|
| |
Date: 27 Sep 2006 08:44:46
From: spring
Subject: Re: Shot a 105 yesterday....
|
what is ; w/ESC?
"zumafan" <mgeorg@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1159352522.381733.251470@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> .....100 w/ESC....a course called Oakie-something, I think they're
> having a big tournament there next year.....nice place.
>
|
| | |
Date: 27 Sep 2006 09:01:01
From: A Brick in the Wall
Subject: Re: Shot a 105 yesterday....
|
"spring" <s@spring.com > wrote in message
news:PmuSg.9799$zF5.4048@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
> what is ; w/ESC?
>
>
> "zumafan" <mgeorg@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1159352522.381733.251470@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>> .....100 w/ESC....a course called Oakie-something, I think they're
>> having a big tournament there next year.....nice place.
>>
>
>
http://golf.about.com/cs/handicapping/a/whatisesc.htm
Equitable Stroke Control (ESC) is the system put in place by the USGA to
eliminate the effect of "distaster holes." You know, that one hole per round
where you put three balls in the water and then 5-putt. It's also a way to
combat those pernicious sandbaggers who intentionally blow up on a hole in
order to raise their handicaps.
Equitable Stroke Control puts a limit on the number of strokes you can write
down on the scorecard for any one hole, based on your course handicap. For
example, on that one disaster hole you might have taken 14 strokes (get to
the practice range, buddy!) to get the ball in the cup. But based on your
course handicap, ESC might require you to post only a "7" on the scorecard
you turn in.
Taking the "14" might throw your handicap index out of whack.
And remember, the handicap index is not meant to reflect your average score,
it's meant to reflect your best potential.
To determine the Equitable Stroke Control limits for your round, you must
first know your course handicap. Once you've determined your course
handicap, you can check the chart down below (which should also be available
at golf courses) to determine the ESC limits.
Of course, if you have not yet established a handicap index, then you can't
determine a course handicap. And without a course handicap, you can't
determine ESC. But in order to established a handicap index, you must turn
in adjusted gross scores, which requires knowing a course handicap. What
gives?
Don't worry, the USGA knows what to do. If you do not yet have a handicap
index, then use the maximum allowable handicaps to determine course handicap
and ESC. For men, that means using 36.4 as a handicap index, and for women,
40.4.
Here is the chart that shows Equitable Stroke Control limits:
Equitable Stroke Control Chart
Course Handicap Maximum Score
0-9 Double Bogey
10-19 7
20-29 8
30-39 9
40 or more 10
|
| | | |
Date: 28 Sep 2006 08:37:15
From: Bob Cotter
Subject: Re: Shot a 105 yesterday....
|
In article <451a43b0$1_3@newsfeed.slurp.net >,
"A Brick in the Wall" <NoSpam@NoThanks.com > wrote:
> Here is the chart that shows Equitable Stroke Control limits:
>
>
> Equitable Stroke Control Chart
>
> Course Handicap Maximum Score
> 0-9 Double Bogey
> 10-19 7
> 20-29 8
> 30-39 9
> 40 or more 10
In Canada the ESC limits are different from those in the United States.
Here are the limits according to the RCGA (Royal Canadian Golf
Association)...
The RCGA employs an "up to n over par" type of ESC. The number
of strokes over par which are allowed per hole for handicapping
purposes is based on the golfer's Slope adjusted Course Handicap. For
example, a golfer with a 0 or plus handicap may count only one stroke
over par per hole when computing an adjusted gross score. Similarly,
golfers with handicaps of 1 through 18, 19 through 32 , and 33 and
over may count 2 over par, 3 over par and 4 over par per hole
respectively.
Cheers... Bob (19 handicap looking for 18 so I can stop taking triples)
--
If replying by email, please remove the removes.
Visit my home course at <http://www.sunshinecoastgolf.com >
|
| | | | |
Date: 28 Sep 2006 11:35:06
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: Shot a 105 yesterday....
|
On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 08:37:15 -0700, Bob Cotter
<bob.remove@remove.educom.com > wrote:
> The RCGA employs an "up to n over par" type of ESC. The number
>of strokes over par which are allowed per hole for handicapping
>purposes is based on the golfer's Slope adjusted Course Handicap. For
>example, a golfer with a 0 or plus handicap may count only one stroke
>over par per hole when computing an adjusted gross score. Similarly,
>golfers with handicaps of 1 through 18, 19 through 32 , and 33 and
>over may count 2 over par, 3 over par and 4 over par per hole
>respectively.
I like that. Why should someone with a USGA course handicap of 19
have a maximum of 7 on a par-5 hole and 7 on a par-3 hole? There's a
big difference between a double bogey and a quadruple bogey.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 28 Sep 2006 13:50:07
From: sfb
Subject: Re: Shot a 105 yesterday....
|
The previous USGA ESC system was similar to the RCGA system. Unfortunately,
the USGA thought it necessary to dumb down the system since it was it was
too complex for most golfers to understand.
"Howard Brazee" <howard@brazee.net > wrote in message
news:hm1oh2505nbqoec7jnqenelq1dn76ivnc9@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 08:37:15 -0700, Bob Cotter
> <bob.remove@remove.educom.com> wrote:
>
>> The RCGA employs an "up to n over par" type of ESC. The number
>>of strokes over par which are allowed per hole for handicapping
>>purposes is based on the golfer's Slope adjusted Course Handicap. For
>>example, a golfer with a 0 or plus handicap may count only one stroke
>>over par per hole when computing an adjusted gross score. Similarly,
>>golfers with handicaps of 1 through 18, 19 through 32 , and 33 and
>>over may count 2 over par, 3 over par and 4 over par per hole
>>respectively.
>
> I like that. Why should someone with a USGA course handicap of 19
> have a maximum of 7 on a par-5 hole and 7 on a par-3 hole? There's a
> big difference between a double bogey and a quadruple bogey.
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 28 Sep 2006 12:56:27
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: Shot a 105 yesterday....
|
On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 13:50:07 -0400, "sfb" <sfb@spam.net > wrote:
>The previous USGA ESC system was similar to the RCGA system. Unfortunately,
>the USGA thought it necessary to dumb down the system since it was it was
>too complex for most golfers to understand.
I know they changed it - but they didn't simplify it.
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 28 Sep 2006 15:37:59
From: sfb
Subject: Re: Shot a 105 yesterday....
|
Yes, they did. On January 1, 1998, the USGA made it orders of magnitude
simpler. I can't find a write-up, but the previous system had things like a
12 could have 12 bogies and 6 doubles while a 13 could have 13 bogies and 5
doubles.
"Howard Brazee" <howard@brazee.net > wrote in message
news:uk6oh2537gqbfr7lmb6fg3knrlend888uq@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 13:50:07 -0400, "sfb" <sfb@spam.net> wrote:
>
>>The previous USGA ESC system was similar to the RCGA system.
>>Unfortunately,
>>the USGA thought it necessary to dumb down the system since it was it was
>>too complex for most golfers to understand.
>
> I know they changed it - but they didn't simplify it.
|
| | | | |
Date: 28 Sep 2006 15:58:24
From: Dave Lee
Subject: Re: Shot a 105 yesterday....
|
"Bob Cotter" <bob.remove@remove.educom.com > wrote in message
news:bob.remove-06939E.08371428092006@sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net...
> In article <451a43b0$1_3@newsfeed.slurp.net>,
> "A Brick in the Wall" <NoSpam@NoThanks.com> wrote:
>
> > Here is the chart that shows Equitable Stroke Control limits:
> >
> >
> > Equitable Stroke Control Chart
> >
> > Course Handicap Maximum Score
> > 0-9 Double Bogey
> > 10-19 7
> > 20-29 8
> > 30-39 9
> > 40 or more 10
>
> In Canada the ESC limits are different from those in the United States.
> Here are the limits according to the RCGA (Royal Canadian Golf
> Association)...
>
> The RCGA employs an "up to n over par" type of ESC. The number
> of strokes over par which are allowed per hole for handicapping
> purposes is based on the golfer's Slope adjusted Course Handicap. For
> example, a golfer with a 0 or plus handicap may count only one stroke
> over par per hole when computing an adjusted gross score. Similarly,
> golfers with handicaps of 1 through 18, 19 through 32 , and 33 and
> over may count 2 over par, 3 over par and 4 over par per hole
> respectively.
>
> Cheers... Bob (19 handicap looking for 18 so I can stop taking triples)
>
snip
I've never understood why (in the US) a 11 handicapper can post a quadruple
bogey on a par 3 but only a double on a par 5.
dave
|
| | | |
Date: 27 Sep 2006 09:15:58
From: spring
Subject: Re: Shot a 105 yesterday....
|
"A Brick in the Wall" <NoSpam@NoThanks.com > wrote in message
news:451a43b0$1_3@newsfeed.slurp.net...
>
> "spring" <s@spring.com> wrote in message
> news:PmuSg.9799$zF5.4048@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
>> what is ; w/ESC?
>>
>>
>> "zumafan" <mgeorg@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1159352522.381733.251470@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>>> .....100 w/ESC....a course called Oakie-something, I think they're
>>> having a big tournament there next year.....nice place.
>>>
>>
>>
>
> http://golf.about.com/cs/handicapping/a/whatisesc.htm
>
> Equitable Stroke Control (ESC) is the system put in place by the USGA to
> eliminate the effect of "distaster holes." You know, that one hole per
> round where you put three balls in the water and then 5-putt. It's also a
> way to combat those pernicious sandbaggers who intentionally blow up on a
> hole in order to raise their handicaps.
> Equitable Stroke Control puts a limit on the number of strokes you can
> write down on the scorecard for any one hole, based on your course
> handicap. For example, on that one disaster hole you might have taken 14
> strokes (get to the practice range, buddy!) to get the ball in the cup.
> But based on your course handicap, ESC might require you to post only a
> "7" on the scorecard you turn in.
>
> Taking the "14" might throw your handicap index out of whack.
>
>
> And remember, the handicap index is not meant to reflect your average
> score, it's meant to reflect your best potential.
> To determine the Equitable Stroke Control limits for your round, you must
> first know your course handicap. Once you've determined your course
> handicap, you can check the chart down below (which should also be
> available at golf courses) to determine the ESC limits.
>
> Of course, if you have not yet established a handicap index, then you
> can't determine a course handicap. And without a course handicap, you
> can't determine ESC. But in order to established a handicap index, you
> must turn in adjusted gross scores, which requires knowing a course
> handicap. What gives?
>
> Don't worry, the USGA knows what to do. If you do not yet have a handicap
> index, then use the maximum allowable handicaps to determine course
> handicap and ESC. For men, that means using 36.4 as a handicap index, and
> for women, 40.4.
>
> Here is the chart that shows Equitable Stroke Control limits:
>
>
> Equitable Stroke Control Chart
>
> Course Handicap Maximum Score
> 0-9 Double Bogey
> 10-19 7
> 20-29 8
> 30-39 9
> 40 or more 10
>
Many thanks for that explanation.
I count every stroke anyway so I always enter my number no matter what the
USGA barks back to me about :-)
Bill
>
|
| | | | |
Date: 27 Sep 2006 22:11:42
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: Shot a 105 yesterday....
|
On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 09:15:58 -0400, "spring" <s@spring.com > wrote:
>Many thanks for that explanation.
>
>I count every stroke anyway so I always enter my number no matter what the
>USGA barks back to me about :-)
I count every stroke too - for myself. But I enter the ESC score in
the computer - otherwise I would have no defense if I was accused of
sandbagging.
|
| | | |
Date: 27 Sep 2006 13:14:05
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: Shot a 105 yesterday....
|
On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 09:01:01 -0400, "A Brick in the Wall"
<NoSpam@NoThanks.com > wrote:
>> what is ; w/ESC?
So it either stands for "with ESC" or for "without ESC". When the
two choices have the same abbreviation, abbreviations don't work.
|
| | | | |
Date: 27 Sep 2006 21:14:25
From: A Brick in the Wall
Subject: Re: Shot a 105 yesterday....
|
"Howard Brazee" <howard@brazee.net > wrote in message
news:h6ukh25liu0qbko1nqi5acgriaso0601ca@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 09:01:01 -0400, "A Brick in the Wall"
> <NoSpam@NoThanks.com> wrote:
>
>>> what is ; w/ESC?
>
> So it either stands for "with ESC" or for "without ESC". When the
> two choices have the same abbreviation, abbreviations don't work.
Maybe it's just me -- but I would abbreviate it w/o ESC or w/ESC. YMMV
|
| | | | |
Date: 27 Sep 2006 13:32:25
From: muk
Subject: Re: Shot a 105 yesterday....
|
On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 13:14:05 GMT, Howard Brazee <howard@brazee.net > :
>On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 09:01:01 -0400, "A Brick in the Wall"
><NoSpam@NoThanks.com> wrote:
>
>>> what is ; w/ESC?
>
>So it either stands for "with ESC" or for "without ESC". When the
>two choices have the same abbreviation, abbreviations don't work.
look at the header of his post and think about it :)
|
| | | | | |
Date: 27 Sep 2006 22:09:54
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: Shot a 105 yesterday....
|
On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 13:32:25 GMT, muk <mukhp@NOSPAMhotmail.com > wrote:
>>>> what is ; w/ESC?
>>
>>So it either stands for "with ESC" or for "without ESC". When the
>>two choices have the same abbreviation, abbreviations don't work.
>
>look at the header of his post and think about it :)
Either his "real" score was 105 or it was higher than 105.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 27 Sep 2006 13:53:03
From: Dave Lee
Subject: Re: Shot a 105 yesterday....
|
"muk" <mukhp@NOSPAMhotmail.com > wrote in message
news:l9vkh2d0pe5ce730a4bla4ilknu2jkmmgj@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 13:14:05 GMT, Howard Brazee <howard@brazee.net> :
>
> >On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 09:01:01 -0400, "A Brick in the Wall"
> ><NoSpam@NoThanks.com> wrote:
> >
> >>> what is ; w/ESC?
> >
> >So it either stands for "with ESC" or for "without ESC". When the
> >two choices have the same abbreviation, abbreviations don't work.
>
> look at the header of his post and think about it :)
It is the new handicap rules (initiated by the folks who hit all fairway
shots off a tee). If you get a natural birdie on a hole where you receive
two strokes, you have to add a stroke to your score on that hole when you
post it :-)
dave
|
| |
Date: 27 Sep 2006 05:12:19
From: Mister Hand
Subject: Re: Shot a 105 yesterday....
|
3putt wrote:
> "zumafan" <mgeorg@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1159352522.381733.251470@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> > .....100 w/ESC....a course called Oakie-something, I think they're
> > having a big tournament there next year.....nice place.
> >
> Hope that wasn't your personal best.
So what if it was?
|
| | |
Date: 27 Sep 2006 13:14:31
From: 3putt
Subject: Re: Shot a 105 yesterday....
|
"Mister Hand" <mister-hand@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1159359139.259927.241480@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> 3putt wrote:
>> "zumafan" <mgeorg@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1159352522.381733.251470@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>> > .....100 w/ESC....a course called Oakie-something, I think they're
>> > having a big tournament there next year.....nice place.
>> >
>> Hope that wasn't your personal best.
>
> So what if it was?
>
Ok then. I shot an 80 on Monday. No ESC involved here. Sorry. No video
of my swing available. Hoping to shoot my age real soon. Stay posted.
|
| |
Date: 27 Sep 2006 12:10:18
From: 3putt
Subject: Re: Shot a 105 yesterday....
|
"zumafan" <mgeorg@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1159352522.381733.251470@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> .....100 w/ESC....a course called Oakie-something, I think they're
> having a big tournament there next year.....nice place.
>
Hope that wasn't your personal best.
|
| |
Date: 27 Sep 2006 07:31:28
From: David Sneddon
Subject: Re: Shot a 105 yesterday....
|
zumafan wrote:
> .....100 w/ESC....a course called Oakie-something, I think they're
> having a big tournament there next year.....nice place.
>
You made it there!!!! That was the Golf Assn League thing you were
talking about at Ohio - right???
David
|
| |
Date: 27 Sep 2006 06:21:18
From: Aress Gee
Subject: Re: Shot a 105 yesterday....
|
"zumafan" <mgeorg@gmail.com > writes:
> .....100 w/ESC....a course called Oakie-something, I think they're
> having a big tournament there next year.....nice place.
How were the greens; I hear they keep 'em
quick at that track?
--
+++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Mr. People who use golf as some sort of status
Aress symbol are destined to go unfulfilled.
Gee -- Golf's Most Beloved Figure
+++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|
|
