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Date: 23 Feb 2007 21:15:19
From: Lloyd Parsons
Subject: Shaft stiffness
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The other day, when the weather was not so good, I went to the store to
try out the new Nike square driver. I tried a 10.5 Regular shaft and a
9.5 Stiff shaft. I hit the 9.5 stiff better, straighter and longer.
Which brings up this question. My swingspeed is 85-87 and I had been
recommended moving to a senior shaft. So with that swingspeed, why was
I able to do better with a shallow lie and stiff shaft?
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Date: 24 Feb 2007 12:53:47
From: David Geesaman
Subject: Re: Shaft stiffness
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Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> The other day, when the weather was not so good, I went to the store to
> try out the new Nike square driver. I tried a 10.5 Regular shaft and a
> 9.5 Stiff shaft. I hit the 9.5 stiff better, straighter and longer.
>
> Which brings up this question. My swingspeed is 85-87 and I had been
> recommended moving to a senior shaft. So with that swingspeed, why was
> I able to do better with a shallow lie and stiff shaft?
Several possibilities:
1) Your tempo matches a stiff shaft more than the regular. While
selecting shaft stiffness will always be a nebulous ordeal, it's
generally agreed that swing speed alone is not the answer. Swing tempo
(call it the 'furious' factor) matters a lot
2) The two clubs were actually quite similar in stiffness. Stiffness of
mass-produced shafts isn't as consistent as you might think. If you put
10 10.5 regulars and 10 9.5 stiffs in a frequency machine you'll get a
lot more overlap than you would think.
3) The lie has little to do with how well you hit it. How well you
swing it really determines how well you hit it. Some golfers are more
deliberate and make better swings with the stiff/low lofted driver.
Some golfers just aren't consistent enough to fully assess which one is
better within the typical tryout period. Some golfers judge the
performance of a club on the first couple of shots, and from that point
on they swing them differently and the comparison is invalid.
I try to test a club on several occasions. This reduces the mental and
consistency factors.
Dave
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Date: 24 Feb 2007 05:54:51
From: Birdie Bill
Subject: Re: Shaft stiffness
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On Feb 23, 9:15 pm, Lloyd Parsons <lloydpars...@mac.com > wrote:
> The other day, when the weather was not so good, I went to the store to
> try out the new Nike square driver. I tried a 10.5 Regular shaft and a
> 9.5 Stiff shaft. I hit the 9.5 stiff better, straighter and longer.
>
> Which brings up this question. My swingspeed is 85-87 and I had been
> recommended moving to a senior shaft. So with that swingspeed, why was
> I able to do better with a shallow lie and stiff shaft?
You mean less loft, not shallow lie. I can hit an 8 degree driver
farther than I can a 10 degree driver. But I can keep the 10 degree
driver in the fairway much more often. Depending on what kind
of courses you play, that may be the bigger consideration.
As far as stiff vs regular, whatever floats your boat. I would
recommend more extensive testing, though. You may
also want to consider matching what you have in the
other clubs in your bag.
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Date: 24 Feb 2007 10:05:25
From: Lloyd Parsons
Subject: Re: Shaft stiffness
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In article <1172325291.196342.61410@z35g2000cwz.googlegroups.com >,
"Birdie Bill" <bighorn_bill@hotmail.com > wrote:
> On Feb 23, 9:15 pm, Lloyd Parsons <lloydpars...@mac.com> wrote:
> > The other day, when the weather was not so good, I went to the store to
> > try out the new Nike square driver. I tried a 10.5 Regular shaft and a
> > 9.5 Stiff shaft. I hit the 9.5 stiff better, straighter and longer.
> >
> > Which brings up this question. My swingspeed is 85-87 and I had been
> > recommended moving to a senior shaft. So with that swingspeed, why was
> > I able to do better with a shallow lie and stiff shaft?
>
> You mean less loft, not shallow lie. I can hit an 8 degree driver
> farther than I can a 10 degree driver. But I can keep the 10 degree
> driver in the fairway much more often. Depending on what kind
> of courses you play, that may be the bigger consideration.
>
> As far as stiff vs regular, whatever floats your boat. I would
> recommend more extensive testing, though. You may
> also want to consider matching what you have in the
> other clubs in your bag.
Thanks for the correction.
The courses I play aren't difficult ones, so usually any good, straight
drive will keep you in the fairway or darn close to it. Currently I
play a Louisville golf 10.5 persimmon driver with a rifle steel shaft.
It is what I am most consistent with.
But I would like a bit more distance than I currently get.
Curiously, yesterday I went out to the local mudball course and just
winged it. No practice swings, no thinking about position or any of it.
Even took out my Mactec driver instead of the persimmon. Just tee up
and hit the ball. While some of the drives faded a bit, most were in
the fairway and further than I had been doing. Maybe I'm letting my
head get in the way.
But as you say, more extensive testing is indicated and that is a
problem right now. We've had so much moisture that the ground is just
like a thick wet sponge. It was so bad the other day they wouldn't let
any of the carts out, even on the paths (not paved). Walking was a real
effort with that ground and finding anywhere dry was almost impossible.
Thanks for the reply.
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Date: 24 Feb 2007 07:18:06
From: Martin Levac
Subject: Re: Shaft stiffness
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"Lloyd Parsons" <lloydparsons@mac.com > wrote in message
news:lloydparsons-92131D.21151923022007@individual.net...
> The other day, when the weather was not so good, I went to the store to
> try out the new Nike square driver. I tried a 10.5 Regular shaft and a
> 9.5 Stiff shaft. I hit the 9.5 stiff better, straighter and longer.
>
> Which brings up this question. My swingspeed is 85-87 and I had been
> recommended moving to a senior shaft. So with that swingspeed, why was
> I able to do better with a shallow lie and stiff shaft?
Because you used the proper tool for the job.
The job is not to swing the club at 85 mph. The job is to strike the ball
using the club to send the ball to the target. A rigid club works better
than a supple club for that job.
Or, it was just pure luck and the vendor is right, you should use more
supple shafts because you're a senior and you probably suck at golf so you'd
better use equipment intended for people that suck at golf.
Or, the vendor's recommendation is based on the amount of feedback you'll
get when you hit the ball badly with the club. A supple shaft will transmit
less feedback from the clubhead to your hands than a rigid shaft. Thus, you
will feel less pain associated with bad hits. This information is intended
to be relevant for people that suck at golf as well. If you suck at golf,
you'll strike the ball badly more often than if you play well. Therefore,
you will feel pain more frequently than if you if you play well. Therefore,
you'll be better equipped to deal with the associated pain if you use supple
shaft, which are intended to shield you from the associated pain.
All of this above comes from the inherent difficulty in manufacturing very
rigid shafts in large quantities using graphite. Therefore, you will find a
very large selection of cheap supple shafts and a very small selection of
very expensive rigid shafts. That same is not true for steel shafts because
the manufacturing process and the quality control is basically the same for
both a rigid steel shaft and a supple steel shaft. What is different about a
rigid steel shaft and a supple steel shaft is the diameter at different
lengths throughout and the points where it is cut to length for the intended
rigidity.
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Date: 24 Feb 2007 09:55:17
From: Lloyd Parsons
Subject: Re: Shaft stiffness
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In article <M0WDh.14918$Lp4.760971@wagner.videotron.net >,
"tin Levac" <vac3@REMOVEvideotron.ca > wrote:
> "Lloyd Parsons" <lloydparsons@mac.com> wrote in message
> news:lloydparsons-92131D.21151923022007@individual.net...
> > The other day, when the weather was not so good, I went to the store to
> > try out the new Nike square driver. I tried a 10.5 Regular shaft and a
> > 9.5 Stiff shaft. I hit the 9.5 stiff better, straighter and longer.
> >
> > Which brings up this question. My swingspeed is 85-87 and I had been
> > recommended moving to a senior shaft. So with that swingspeed, why was
> > I able to do better with a shallow lie and stiff shaft?
>
> Because you used the proper tool for the job.
>
> The job is not to swing the club at 85 mph. The job is to strike the ball
> using the club to send the ball to the target. A rigid club works better
> than a supple club for that job.
>
> Or, it was just pure luck and the vendor is right, you should use more
> supple shafts because you're a senior and you probably suck at golf so you'd
> better use equipment intended for people that suck at golf.
>
> Or, the vendor's recommendation is based on the amount of feedback you'll
> get when you hit the ball badly with the club. A supple shaft will transmit
> less feedback from the clubhead to your hands than a rigid shaft. Thus, you
> will feel less pain associated with bad hits. This information is intended
> to be relevant for people that suck at golf as well. If you suck at golf,
> you'll strike the ball badly more often than if you play well. Therefore,
> you will feel pain more frequently than if you if you play well. Therefore,
> you'll be better equipped to deal with the associated pain if you use supple
> shaft, which are intended to shield you from the associated pain.
>
> All of this above comes from the inherent difficulty in manufacturing very
> rigid shafts in large quantities using graphite. Therefore, you will find a
> very large selection of cheap supple shafts and a very small selection of
> very expensive rigid shafts. That same is not true for steel shafts because
> the manufacturing process and the quality control is basically the same for
> both a rigid steel shaft and a supple steel shaft. What is different about a
> rigid steel shaft and a supple steel shaft is the diameter at different
> lengths throughout and the points where it is cut to length for the intended
> rigidity.
Thanks for the reply. Reading this and thinking about what works most
consistently for me with the drive makes me understand why my rifle
steel shafted Louisville golf driver is more comfortable for me and why
it produces the results it does. Straight, if not long drives.
I think that I was looking for a bit more distance while keeping the
shape the same. My swing is what it is and no amount of lessons has
worked for more than a round or two, usually not even that long.
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