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Date: 04 Mar 2007 16:04:17
From: multi
Subject: Rules Question and Answer (slight Honda spoiler)
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During the playoff today, Wilson's drive stopped at the very edge of
the water. It was so late, and so hard to see, that there was a
possibility that play might be suspended before his next shot.
I wondered what might happen if Wilson ked his ball, and overnight
the level of the water rose a foot (heavy rain, tide, dam broke) so
that the spot was underwater the next day. Would he get to replace
his ball at the new edge of the water, no nearer the hole, or would he
have to replace it at the original spot, now under a foot of water?
The answer, according to decision 6-8d1, is that he has to replace it
at the original spot, under water.
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Date: 06 Mar 2007 04:31:22
From: johnty
Subject: Re: Rules Question and Answer (slight Honda spoiler)
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On 5 , 22:23, david s-a <dsant...@bigpond.net.au > wrote:
> Colin Wilson wrote:
> > Jimbo wrote:
>
> >> It would be in/under "Casual water" and he would proceed under that rule
>
> >>> I wondered what might happen if Wilson ked his ball, and overnight
> >>> the level of the water rose a foot (heavy rain, tide, dam broke) so
> >>> that the spot was underwater the next day. Would he get to replace
> >>> his ball at the new edge of the water, no nearer the hole, or would he
> >>> have to replace it at the original spot, now under a foot of water?
>
> > Casual water can only occur outside a water hazard. The boundary of a
> > water hazard is not the present water level, it's the ked and/or
> > "natural" boundary.
>
> > If his ball is *inside* the hazard but above the water line at the time,
> > then the water rises to cover the spot where his ball was, then he has
> > to take the usual options for relief from the water hazard. If he can't
> > hit the ball, too bad ... he takes relief with a one stroke penalty.
>
> > If his ball is *outside* the hazard and the water rises to cover the
> > spot (i.e. the water floods into an area that is not a water hazard),
> > then he can take relief from casual water.
>
> Colin,
>
> There is the minor issue as to whether the player can actually find the
> original spot or ker under water that has overflowed from a water
> hazard. It is arguable that the ball can then be deemed to be 'lost' in
> the water......and of course any ball 'lost' in overflow from a water
> hazard is deemed to be lost IN the water hazard! Player should really
> proceed under water hazard rule!
>
> Think about it!
If the ked spot was outside the hazard, the player has sufficient
evidence to proceed under rule 25 on resumption of play.
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Date: 08 Mar 2007 00:54:53
From: JimK
Subject: Re: Rules Question and Answer (slight Honda spoiler)
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On 6 2007 04:31:22 -0800, "johnty" <johnty1@hotmail.com > wrote:
>On 5 , 22:23, david s-a <dsant...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>> Colin Wilson wrote:
>> > Jimbo wrote:
>>
>> >> It would be in/under "Casual water" and he would proceed under that rule
>>
>> >>> I wondered what might happen if Wilson ked his ball, and overnight
>> >>> the level of the water rose a foot (heavy rain, tide, dam broke) so
>> >>> that the spot was underwater the next day. Would he get to replace
>> >>> his ball at the new edge of the water, no nearer the hole, or would he
>> >>> have to replace it at the original spot, now under a foot of water?
>>
>> > Casual water can only occur outside a water hazard. The boundary of a
>> > water hazard is not the present water level, it's the ked and/or
>> > "natural" boundary.
>>
>> > If his ball is *inside* the hazard but above the water line at the time,
>> > then the water rises to cover the spot where his ball was, then he has
>> > to take the usual options for relief from the water hazard. If he can't
>> > hit the ball, too bad ... he takes relief with a one stroke penalty.
>>
>> > If his ball is *outside* the hazard and the water rises to cover the
>> > spot (i.e. the water floods into an area that is not a water hazard),
>> > then he can take relief from casual water.
>>
>> Colin,
>>
>> There is the minor issue as to whether the player can actually find the
>> original spot or ker under water that has overflowed from a water
>> hazard. It is arguable that the ball can then be deemed to be 'lost' in
>> the water......and of course any ball 'lost' in overflow from a water
>> hazard is deemed to be lost IN the water hazard! Player should really
>> proceed under water hazard rule!
>>
>> Think about it!
>
>If the ked spot was outside the hazard, the player has sufficient
>evidence to proceed under rule 25 on resumption of play.
>
I haven't checked the rules, but if play had been suspended due to
darkness I believe a player has the option of completing the hole if
he chooses. If so, then under these circumstances it would have been
wise to continue and play the ball from within the hazard so as to
avoid the possibility of the worse lie the next day.
JimK
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Date: 04 Mar 2007 22:00:31
From: Jimbo
Subject: Re: Rules Question and Answer (slight Honda spoiler)
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It would be in/under "Casual water" and he would proceed under that rule
"multi" <multi@asm.org > wrote in message
news:84nmu2pi0jhkbj9ngqt28un1g1b2nd497s@4ax.com...
> During the playoff today, Wilson's drive stopped at the very edge of
> the water. It was so late, and so hard to see, that there was a
> possibility that play might be suspended before his next shot.
>
> I wondered what might happen if Wilson ked his ball, and overnight
> the level of the water rose a foot (heavy rain, tide, dam broke) so
> that the spot was underwater the next day. Would he get to replace
> his ball at the new edge of the water, no nearer the hole, or would he
> have to replace it at the original spot, now under a foot of water?
>
>
>
> The answer, according to decision 6-8d1, is that he has to replace it
> at the original spot, under water.
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Date: 05 Mar 2007 05:32:24
From: Colin Wilson
Subject: Re: Rules Question and Answer (slight Honda spoiler)
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Jimbo wrote:
> It would be in/under "Casual water" and he would proceed under that rule
>> I wondered what might happen if Wilson ked his ball, and overnight
>> the level of the water rose a foot (heavy rain, tide, dam broke) so
>> that the spot was underwater the next day. Would he get to replace
>> his ball at the new edge of the water, no nearer the hole, or would he
>> have to replace it at the original spot, now under a foot of water?
Casual water can only occur outside a water hazard. The boundary of a
water hazard is not the present water level, it's the ked and/or
"natural" boundary.
If his ball is *inside* the hazard but above the water line at the time,
then the water rises to cover the spot where his ball was, then he has
to take the usual options for relief from the water hazard. If he can't
hit the ball, too bad ... he takes relief with a one stroke penalty.
If his ball is *outside* the hazard and the water rises to cover the
spot (i.e. the water floods into an area that is not a water hazard),
then he can take relief from casual water.
See the definition of casual water ... "Any temporary accumulation of
water on the course that is visible before or after a player takes his
stance and is *not* in a water hazard".
--
Cheers
Colin Wilson
------------------------------------------------------------------
Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com
Barnbougle Dunes: http://publishing.kyneton.net.au/barnbougle
------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: 06 Mar 2007 09:23:04
From: david s-a
Subject: Re: Rules Question and Answer (slight Honda spoiler)
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Colin Wilson wrote:
> Jimbo wrote:
>
>> It would be in/under "Casual water" and he would proceed under that rule
>
>
>>> I wondered what might happen if Wilson ked his ball, and overnight
>>> the level of the water rose a foot (heavy rain, tide, dam broke) so
>>> that the spot was underwater the next day. Would he get to replace
>>> his ball at the new edge of the water, no nearer the hole, or would he
>>> have to replace it at the original spot, now under a foot of water?
>
>
> Casual water can only occur outside a water hazard. The boundary of a
> water hazard is not the present water level, it's the ked and/or
> "natural" boundary.
>
> If his ball is *inside* the hazard but above the water line at the time,
> then the water rises to cover the spot where his ball was, then he has
> to take the usual options for relief from the water hazard. If he can't
> hit the ball, too bad ... he takes relief with a one stroke penalty.
>
> If his ball is *outside* the hazard and the water rises to cover the
> spot (i.e. the water floods into an area that is not a water hazard),
> then he can take relief from casual water.
>
Colin,
There is the minor issue as to whether the player can actually find the
original spot or ker under water that has overflowed from a water
hazard. It is arguable that the ball can then be deemed to be 'lost' in
the water......and of course any ball 'lost' in overflow from a water
hazard is deemed to be lost IN the water hazard! Player should really
proceed under water hazard rule!
Think about it!
cheers
david
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Date: 05 Mar 2007 03:23:51
From: Bob
Subject: Re: Rules Question and Answer (slight Honda spoiler)
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"Jimbo" <jjmatthews@davtv.com > wrote in message
news:esg15202hh5@enews2.newsguy.com...
> It would be in/under "Casual water" and he would proceed under that rule
>
It was in a lateral hazard ... I don't believe that is casual water ...
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