| |
Main
Date: 30 Sep 2006 23:25:04
From: Gm1234
Subject: Rules Question - Lateral Hazard
|
We have had an on-going discussion at our club about how a ball should be
dropped from a somewhat unique lateral water hazard. I have studied the
rules and decisions and can't find a clear answer. Maybe someone here can
point me to the relevant rule or decision?
The hole is an almost straight par 5 . There is an OB fence on the left.
Just inside the fence, there is a red staked lateral water hazard (a swamp).
It is possible to hit a fade (slice?) in such a way that the ball crosses
out of bounds then back in bounds while in the air. After that, it can land
in the lateral hazard. In this case, the lateral hazard boundary it crosses,
is also the OB fence.
Here is a picture:
http://home.cogeco.ca/~golfing/RULES/LATERAL.jpg
Question is, where to drop ball?
Presumably one option would be to come back on a line from the pin through
the point of entry. But by the definition of a lateral this should not be
possible, so perhaps it should not be a lateral?
Since it is ked as a lateral, it should be possible to drop within 2
club-lengths of the point of entry. BUT, this point is OB. Rules say that as
an alternative, ball can be dropped on opposite side of hazard, not nearer
the hole. One of our rules people was told that there is a decision that
invalidated this option if the point of entry into the lateral is from OB,
even although ball never touches ground while above OB area - I have not
been able to find this decision.
This particular situation occurs quite often and players are not sure what
to do and rulings so far have been unclear.
Any advice?
|
|
| |
Date: 02 Oct 2006 14:20:07
From: Vince Bartlett
Subject: Re: Rules Question - Lateral Hazard
|
"Gm1234" <gm1234@nowhere.net > wrote in message
news:AzGTg.135248$sS1.102053@read1.cgocable.net...
> We have had an on-going discussion at our club about how a ball should be
> dropped from a somewhat unique lateral water hazard. I have studied the
>
<Snip >
>
> Any advice?
We have an almost identical situation at my home course. It was originally
ked as a hazard, but has since been changed to be OOB. This was really
the only sensible solution in my opinion. What happens for someone with a
right to left shot? Imagine they bend the ball around the tree so it's going
in to "hazard" from the right. Depending on the tree size for visibility,
how do you know it hasn't skipped on the water (or carried it completely)
and gone OOB?
The change at my course has made it much less ambiguous, though for some of
the longer standing members who're used to the original king it's still a
problem.
Vince
|
| | |
Date: 02 Oct 2006 09:42:55
From: Gm1234
Subject: Re: Rules Question - Lateral Hazard
|
"Vince Bartlett" wrote
>
> We have an almost identical situation at my home course. It was originally
> ked as a hazard, but has since been changed to be OOB. This was really
> the only sensible solution in my opinion. What happens for someone with a
> right to left shot? Imagine they bend the ball around the tree so it's
going
> in to "hazard" from the right. Depending on the tree size for visibility,
> how do you know it hasn't skipped on the water (or carried it completely)
> and gone OOB?
>
> The change at my course has made it much less ambiguous, though for some
of
> the longer standing members who're used to the original king it's still
a
> problem.
Vince,
Some of us have discussed doing just that and I think it may be the best
solution. But, some think that the red stakes speed up play because they
allow a drop. Problem is knowing if ball is in hazard or OB and because it
is an overgrown swampy area, there is seldom any chance of finding the ball
in the hazard. We sometimes find them in the OB area, but even that is
difficult.
|
| | | |
Date: 02 Oct 2006 15:02:14
From: Vince Bartlett
Subject: Re: Rules Question - Lateral Hazard
|
"Gm1234" <gm1234@nowhere.net > wrote in message
news:RI8Ug.150223$sS1.11024@read1.cgocable.net...
>
> "Vince Bartlett" wrote
>>
>> We have an almost identical situation at my home course. It was
>> originally
>> ked as a hazard, but has since been changed to be OOB. This was really
>> the only sensible solution in my opinion. What happens for someone with a
>> right to left shot? Imagine they bend the ball around the tree so it's
> going
>> in to "hazard" from the right. Depending on the tree size for visibility,
>> how do you know it hasn't skipped on the water (or carried it completely)
>> and gone OOB?
>>
>> The change at my course has made it much less ambiguous, though for some
> of
>> the longer standing members who're used to the original king it's
>> still
> a
>> problem.
>
> Vince,
> Some of us have discussed doing just that and I think it may be the best
> solution. But, some think that the red stakes speed up play because they
> allow a drop. Problem is knowing if ball is in hazard or OB and because it
> is an overgrown swampy area, there is seldom any chance of finding the
> ball
> in the hazard. We sometimes find them in the OB area, but even that is
> difficult.
>
At my previous club, there is a ditch running all the way along the 1st
hole. Some bright spark
decided to declare this as a lateral hazard. So, when you stood quaking on
the 1st tee on
medal day and hooked it over the hedge yo got a drop where it went over.
They've since seen
how ridiculous it was and changed it to all OOB.
It seems to me that this is a perennial problem of having a hazard right
beside OOB.
Vince
|
| |
Date: 01 Oct 2006 06:38:16
From:
Subject: Re: Rules Question - Lateral Hazard
|
Prilosec wrote:
> Everyone here has answered in a way I think is correct--you can drop on
> either side of a lateral hazard. My question, and I'm guessing the real
> question at your club, is how you determine where your ball re-crossed the
> far side (OB side) of the lateral hazard. In the rare instance (I suppose)
> this actually happens, you might make your playing partners happier by
> dropping where your ball FIRST crossed the lateral hazard. Trying to figure
> out where a ball went OB in the air, sliced and came back accross a lateral
> hazard on a tee shot is pretty inexact, I would think.
OK, but the choice you describe is between a less exact method in
accordance with the rules, and a more exact method that breaks the
rules. That sounds like no choice, to me: you have to take into account
the best information you can, and make your best honest judgement, then
proceed in accordance with 26-1 (a, or c.ii, in the case described).
|
| | |
Date: 01 Oct 2006 20:05:48
From: Gm1234
Subject: Re: Rules Question - Lateral Hazard
|
> Prilosec wrote:
> > Everyone here has answered in a way I think is correct--you can drop on
> > either side of a lateral hazard. My question, and I'm guessing the real
> > question at your club, is how you determine where your ball re-crossed
the
> > far side (OB side) of the lateral hazard. In the rare instance (I
suppose)
> > this actually happens, you might make your playing partners happier by
> > dropping where your ball FIRST crossed the lateral hazard. Trying to
figure
> > out where a ball went OB in the air, sliced and came back accross a
lateral
> > hazard on a tee shot is pretty inexact, I would think.
>
If you look again at the sketch, you will see that the ball only crosses the
hazard once. It crosses the OB fence twice while passing over the corner of
the OB area. As you say, it is not easy to determine the exact point the
ball crosses, but there are fence posts, so we usually know which post it
was nearest to.
This is not a rare occurrence - Because of the tree, some long hitting Right
hand slicers and Left hand hookers actually choose this line, and end up in
the hazard if they miss-hit. "Good" shots curve back into the fairway :)
I think I found a decision that should clear this up. It is USGA 26-1/8. In
this case, the ball is hit into a stream that is OB, but the water flow
carries the ball in bounds. The point where the ball crosses from OB to IB
is used for dropping purposes and in the example shown, dropping on the
other side of the hazard is permitted!
Thanks again for the input!
|
| |
Date: 01 Oct 2006 11:04:09
From: Prilosec
Subject: Re: Rules Question - Lateral Hazard
|
Everyone here has answered in a way I think is correct--you can drop on
either side of a lateral hazard. My question, and I'm guessing the real
question at your club, is how you determine where your ball re-crossed the
far side (OB side) of the lateral hazard. In the rare instance (I suppose)
this actually happens, you might make your playing partners happier by
dropping where your ball FIRST crossed the lateral hazard. Trying to figure
out where a ball went OB in the air, sliced and came back accross a lateral
hazard on a tee shot is pretty inexact, I would think.
"Gm1234" <gm1234@nowhere.net > wrote in message
news:AzGTg.135248$sS1.102053@read1.cgocable.net...
> We have had an on-going discussion at our club about how a ball should be
> dropped from a somewhat unique lateral water hazard. I have studied the
> rules and decisions and can't find a clear answer. Maybe someone here can
> point me to the relevant rule or decision?
>
> The hole is an almost straight par 5 . There is an OB fence on the left.
> Just inside the fence, there is a red staked lateral water hazard (a
> swamp).
> It is possible to hit a fade (slice?) in such a way that the ball crosses
> out of bounds then back in bounds while in the air. After that, it can
> land
> in the lateral hazard. In this case, the lateral hazard boundary it
> crosses,
> is also the OB fence.
>
> Here is a picture:
>
> http://home.cogeco.ca/~golfing/RULES/LATERAL.jpg
>
>
> Question is, where to drop ball?
>
> Presumably one option would be to come back on a line from the pin through
> the point of entry. But by the definition of a lateral this should not be
> possible, so perhaps it should not be a lateral?
>
> Since it is ked as a lateral, it should be possible to drop within 2
> club-lengths of the point of entry. BUT, this point is OB. Rules say that
> as
> an alternative, ball can be dropped on opposite side of hazard, not nearer
> the hole. One of our rules people was told that there is a decision that
> invalidated this option if the point of entry into the lateral is from OB,
> even although ball never touches ground while above OB area - I have not
> been able to find this decision.
>
> This particular situation occurs quite often and players are not sure what
> to do and rulings so far have been unclear.
>
> Any advice?
>
>
>
|
| |
Date: 01 Oct 2006 05:57:38
From: spring
Subject: Re: Rules Question - Lateral Hazard
|
I think everyone who knows the answer and replies, should also post a
diagram of where the ball can be dropped, in as clear a manner as the poster
did with his diagram.
Bill
"Gm1234" <gm1234@nowhere.net > wrote in message
news:AzGTg.135248$sS1.102053@read1.cgocable.net...
> We have had an on-going discussion at our club about how a ball should be
> dropped from a somewhat unique lateral water hazard. I have studied the
> rules and decisions and can't find a clear answer. Maybe someone here can
> point me to the relevant rule or decision?
>
> The hole is an almost straight par 5 . There is an OB fence on the left.
> Just inside the fence, there is a red staked lateral water hazard (a
> swamp).
> It is possible to hit a fade (slice?) in such a way that the ball crosses
> out of bounds then back in bounds while in the air. After that, it can
> land
> in the lateral hazard. In this case, the lateral hazard boundary it
> crosses,
> is also the OB fence.
>
> Here is a picture:
>
> http://home.cogeco.ca/~golfing/RULES/LATERAL.jpg
>
>
> Question is, where to drop ball?
>
> Presumably one option would be to come back on a line from the pin through
> the point of entry. But by the definition of a lateral this should not be
> possible, so perhaps it should not be a lateral?
>
> Since it is ked as a lateral, it should be possible to drop within 2
> club-lengths of the point of entry. BUT, this point is OB. Rules say that
> as
> an alternative, ball can be dropped on opposite side of hazard, not nearer
> the hole. One of our rules people was told that there is a decision that
> invalidated this option if the point of entry into the lateral is from OB,
> even although ball never touches ground while above OB area - I have not
> been able to find this decision.
>
> This particular situation occurs quite often and players are not sure what
> to do and rulings so far have been unclear.
>
> Any advice?
>
>
>
|
| |
Date: 01 Oct 2006 06:06:06
From: S McFarlane
Subject: Re: Rules Question - Lateral Hazard
|
"Gm1234" <gm1234@nowhere.net > wrote in message
news:AzGTg.135248$sS1.102053@read1.cgocable.net...
> Question is, where to drop ball?
>
> Presumably one option would be to come back on a line from the pin through
> the point of entry. But by the definition of a lateral this should not be
> possible, so perhaps it should not be a lateral?
This is an option under 26-1 b. 26-1 c does not say that paragraph a & b do
not apply to lateral water hazards. It only points out that there is an
additional option if the water hazard is ked as a lateral hazard. From
your drawing, there appears to be a legal drop point in this case (to the
left of the large tree and behind the OB area). Only you know if it is
still possible to drop there.
It should definitely be a lateral hazard, since a golfer who's ball crossed
the hazard from the right side would be screwed otherwise. They'd have no
choice but to drop way back from the point of entry under 26-1 b or take
stroke + distance. It would be silly to think that the existence of OB on
the other side of the hazard should make this one play differently from any
other lateral hazard.
>
> Since it is ked as a lateral, it should be possible to drop within 2
> club-lengths of the point of entry. BUT, this point is OB. Rules say that
> as
> an alternative, ball can be dropped on opposite side of hazard, not nearer
> the hole. One of our rules people was told that there is a decision that
> invalidated this option if the point of entry into the lateral is from OB,
> even although ball never touches ground while above OB area - I have not
> been able to find this decision.
Me neither, and I believe I've looked at all decisions on Rule 26 & 27,
though I might be wrong. Since there appears to be a legal drop point,
maybe this isn't so important, but if it were my ball I'd definitely want to
go under 26-1 c. I can't imagine why such a decision would exist, but you
also can't prove a negative.
During normal play, I don't really see this as being a problem. The intent
of the rules seem clear, and I'd guess reasonable people could find the best
way to play it.
If hyper-correctness is necessary for a tournament or similiar, then I'd
reference Rule 34-3. The player making the drop would be doing so in good
faith under the most reasonable interpretation of 26-1. If a player
disputes someone proceeding under 26-1 c in this situation, then it is their
perogative to dispute the point to the Committee. Under the ROG, the
Committee can render a decision that is final. If the player believes the
Committee is in error, then it is their perogative under 34-3 to refer it to
the USGA whose decision is really final. I would be surprised to hear that
it ever came to this...
>
> This particular situation occurs quite often and players are not sure what
> to do and rulings so far have been unclear.
>
> Any advice?
The simplest thing is to submit the question to the USGA. See
http://www.usga.org/questions/contact_us/rules_contact_us.html.
From a more formal standpoint, there's no such thing as an unclear ruling.
Maybe wrong-headed, but it seems like this is a yes-no question. If the
club feels it is important, it should be submitted to the Committee under
34-3 when it comes up. If the Committee doesn't have the MoJo to make the
obvious decision, then it should refer it to the Rules Committee of the
USGA.
Scott
|
| |
Date: 01 Oct 2006 05:40:15
From: Peter Strauss
Subject: Re: Rules Question - Lateral Hazard
|
On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 23:25:04 -0400, "Gm1234" <gm1234@nowhere.net >
wrote:
> We have had an on-going discussion at our club about how a ball should be
> dropped from a somewhat unique lateral water hazard. I have studied the
> rules and decisions and can't find a clear answer. Maybe someone here can
> point me to the relevant rule or decision?
>
> The hole is an almost straight par 5 . There is an OB fence on the left.
> Just inside the fence, there is a red staked lateral water hazard (a swamp).
> It is possible to hit a fade (slice?) in such a way that the ball crosses
> out of bounds then back in bounds while in the air. After that, it can land
> in the lateral hazard. In this case, the lateral hazard boundary it crosses,
> is also the OB fence.
>
> Here is a picture:
>
> http://home.cogeco.ca/~golfing/RULES/LATERAL.jpg
>
>
> Question is, where to drop ball?
>
> Presumably one option would be to come back on a line from the pin through
> the point of entry.
That is correct. And in the case of the picture you've drawn, it's
altogether possible, assuming the territory between the left of the
teeing ground and the left of the tree is on the course. See 26-1/15
for an illustration of this.
> But by the definition of a lateral this should not be
> possible, so perhaps it should not be a lateral?
This statement doesn't make sense to me. What do you mean?
For a parallel case, see Decision 26-1/8.
>
> Since it is ked as a lateral, it should be possible to drop within 2
> club-lengths of the point of entry. BUT, this point is OB. Rules say that as
> an alternative, ball can be dropped on opposite side of hazard, not nearer
> the hole.
Not exactly. It's actually much more precise than that. Read Rule
26-1c carefully:
"...drop a ball outside the water hazard within two club-lengths of
and not nearer the hole than ...(ii) a point on the opposite gin of
the water hazard equidistant from the hole."
This means equidistant from the hole as was the original crossing
point on the other side. It can't be just anywhere on the other side
not nearer the hole. It must be within two club-lengths of an
equidistant-from-the-hole point on the other side.
>One of our rules people was told that there is a decision that
> invalidated this option if the point of entry into the lateral is from OB,
> even although ball never touches ground while above OB area - I have not
> been able to find this decision.
There isn't one, since Rule 26-1/8 specifically permits it.
>
> This particular situation occurs quite often and players are not sure what
> to do and rulings so far have been unclear.
>
> Any advice?
>
Re-read the above cited decisions. Copy them out and carry them with
you. Show them to your 'rules people'. In particular, ask the rules
person involved which decision "invalidates this option", as you said
above.
Hope all this helps.
Peter
|
| |
Date: 30 Sep 2006 21:24:07
From: pete z
Subject: Re: Rules Question - Lateral Hazard
|
Gm1234 wrote:
> We have had an on-going discussion at our club about how a ball should be
> dropped from a somewhat unique lateral water hazard. I have studied the
> rules and decisions and can't find a clear answer. Maybe someone here can
> point me to the relevant rule or decision?
>
> The hole is an almost straight par 5 . There is an OB fence on the left.
> Just inside the fence, there is a red staked lateral water hazard (a swamp).
> It is possible to hit a fade (slice?) in such a way that the ball crosses
> out of bounds then back in bounds while in the air. After that, it can land
> in the lateral hazard. In this case, the lateral hazard boundary it crosses,
> is also the OB fence.
>
> Here is a picture:
>
> http://home.cogeco.ca/~golfing/RULES/LATERAL.jpg
>
>
> Question is, where to drop ball?
>
> Presumably one option would be to come back on a line from the pin through
> the point of entry. But by the definition of a lateral this should not be
> possible, so perhaps it should not be a lateral?
>
> Since it is ked as a lateral, it should be possible to drop within 2
> club-lengths of the point of entry. BUT, this point is OB. Rules say that as
> an alternative, ball can be dropped on opposite side of hazard, not nearer
> the hole. One of our rules people was told that there is a decision that
> invalidated this option if the point of entry into the lateral is from OB,
> even although ball never touches ground while above OB area - I have not
> been able to find this decision.
>
> This particular situation occurs quite often and players are not sure what
> to do and rulings so far have been unclear.
>
> Any advice?
Since it is a lateral hazard, you can take a drop on either side of the
hazard. Therefore,
you can drop in bounds opposite where it crossed into the hazard from
OB. This is a pretty
straight forward ruling. Not all that unusual. For example, you have a
creek running
down the entire length of the fairway. The tee is on the right, the
green on the left side of the
creek. You hit your tee shot in the creek. You may drop it on the other
side, but no nearer
the hole, so that you don't have top cross the creek again.
|
| |
Date: 30 Sep 2006 23:44:20
From: sfb
Subject: Re: Rules Question - Lateral Hazard
|
ROG 26-1 (c) (ii) allows taking the penalty drop on the red arrow side of
the hazard opposite where it last crossed the hazard boundary on the OB
side.
Did you guys bother reading the ROG?
"Gm1234" <gm1234@nowhere.net > wrote in message
news:AzGTg.135248$sS1.102053@read1.cgocable.net...
> We have had an on-going discussion at our club about how a ball should be
> dropped from a somewhat unique lateral water hazard. I have studied the
> rules and decisions and can't find a clear answer. Maybe someone here can
> point me to the relevant rule or decision?
>
> The hole is an almost straight par 5 . There is an OB fence on the left.
> Just inside the fence, there is a red staked lateral water hazard (a
> swamp).
> It is possible to hit a fade (slice?) in such a way that the ball crosses
> out of bounds then back in bounds while in the air. After that, it can
> land
> in the lateral hazard. In this case, the lateral hazard boundary it
> crosses,
> is also the OB fence.
>
> Here is a picture:
>
> http://home.cogeco.ca/~golfing/RULES/LATERAL.jpg
>
>
> Question is, where to drop ball?
>
> Presumably one option would be to come back on a line from the pin through
> the point of entry. But by the definition of a lateral this should not be
> possible, so perhaps it should not be a lateral?
>
> Since it is ked as a lateral, it should be possible to drop within 2
> club-lengths of the point of entry. BUT, this point is OB. Rules say that
> as
> an alternative, ball can be dropped on opposite side of hazard, not nearer
> the hole. One of our rules people was told that there is a decision that
> invalidated this option if the point of entry into the lateral is from OB,
> even although ball never touches ground while above OB area - I have not
> been able to find this decision.
>
> This particular situation occurs quite often and players are not sure what
> to do and rulings so far have been unclear.
>
> Any advice?
>
>
>
|
| | |
Date: 01 Oct 2006 04:43:03
From: S McFarlane
Subject: Re: Rules Question - Lateral Hazard
|
"sfb" <sfb@spam.net > wrote in message
news:UuKdnXcffb4IpILYnZ2dnUVZ_sSdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> ROG 26-1 (c) (ii) allows taking the penalty drop on the red arrow side of
> the hazard opposite where it last crossed the hazard boundary on the OB
> side.
>
> Did you guys bother reading the ROG?
Did you bother reading his post? I believe he covered that issue in the
original post. If the rules guru is wrong about the alleged decision, you
should simply state why and how.
Scott
|
| | | |
Date: 01 Oct 2006 10:02:34
From: Aress Gee
Subject: Re: Rules Question - Lateral Hazard
|
"S McFarlane" <spam@nothanks.com > writes:
> "sfb" <sfb@spam.net> wrote in message
> news:UuKdnXcffb4IpILYnZ2dnUVZ_sSdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> > ROG 26-1 (c) (ii) allows taking the penalty drop on the red arrow side of
> > the hazard opposite where it last crossed the hazard boundary on the OB
> > side.
> >
> > Did you guys bother reading the ROG?
>
> Did you bother reading his post? I believe he covered that issue in the
> original post. If the rules guru is wrong about the alleged decision, you
> should simply state why and how.
When the 'rules guru' says "there's a Decision that says XX" without
citing that Decision it is difficult to provide a rebuttal with citation.
Decision 26-1/8 is similar enough to the OP's situation to show
that the player is entitled to relief, under penalty of one stroke,
under Rule 26-1c(ii).
--
+++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Mr. People who use golf as some sort of status
Aress symbol are destined to go unfulfilled.
Gee -- Golf's Most Beloved Figure
+++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|
| | | | |
Date: 01 Oct 2006 17:16:27
From: S McFarlane
Subject: Re: Rules Question - Lateral Hazard
|
"Aress Gee" <invalid@not_real_address.com > wrote in message
news:bar7izkulit.fsf@server007.serverquality.com...
>>
> When the 'rules guru' says "there's a Decision that says XX" without
> citing that Decision it is difficult to provide a rebuttal with citation.
>
> Decision 26-1/8 is similar enough to the OP's situation to show
> that the player is entitled to relief, under penalty of one stroke,
> under Rule 26-1c(ii).
>
I agree with this, but I take it one step farther. There is nothing in the
ROG to support what the 'guru' is talking about, as far as I can see.
Dropping on the other side of the hazard satisfies all the requirements of
Rule 26-1, therefore it should be played that way in the absence of either a
specific citation to the contrary (which doesn't appear to exist) or an
official ruling by the Commitee.
Scott
|
| | | | | |
Date: 01 Oct 2006 17:57:00
From: sfb
Subject: Re: Rules Question - Lateral Hazard
|
What could the Committee rule since ROG 33-1 does not allow them to waive a
rule? The Committee is allowed to make a local rule prohibiting 26-1c(ii) on
the opposite side of the hazard for safety or speed of play. In this case
the opposite side is the fairway.
All the OB, hazards, bunkers, on the green, in the hole, etc. etc. are based
on where the ball comes to rest. Where the ball might have visited on the
trip is irreverent.
"S McFarlane" <spam@nothanks.com > wrote in message
news:LJSTg.14187$Oh3.5681@trnddc04...
>
> "Aress Gee" <invalid@not_real_address.com> wrote in message
> news:bar7izkulit.fsf@server007.serverquality.com...
>>>
>> When the 'rules guru' says "there's a Decision that says XX" without
>> citing that Decision it is difficult to provide a rebuttal with citation.
>>
>> Decision 26-1/8 is similar enough to the OP's situation to show
>> that the player is entitled to relief, under penalty of one stroke,
>> under Rule 26-1c(ii).
>>
>
> I agree with this, but I take it one step farther. There is nothing in
> the ROG to support what the 'guru' is talking about, as far as I can see.
> Dropping on the other side of the hazard satisfies all the requirements of
> Rule 26-1, therefore it should be played that way in the absence of either
> a specific citation to the contrary (which doesn't appear to exist) or an
> official ruling by the Commitee.
>
> Scott
>
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 01 Oct 2006 17:24:39
From: Aress Gee
Subject: Re: Rules Question - Lateral Hazard
|
"sfb" <sfb@spam.net > writes:
> What could the Committee rule since ROG 33-1 does not allow them to waive a
> rule? The Committee is allowed to make a local rule prohibiting 26-1c(ii) on
> the opposite side of the hazard for safety or speed of play. In this case
> the opposite side is the fairway.
Really? Where do the Rules give the Committee the authority to exclude
the player from using 26-1c(ii) when that opposite gin is on the course?
> All the OB, hazards, bunkers, on the green, in the hole, etc. etc. are based
> on where the ball comes to rest. Where the ball might have visited on the
> trip is irreverent.
'Irreverent' ? Hmm, did you get that from the same spelling
and vocabulary class that taught Fairway to spell 'undergarduates'?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.golf/msg/878da48a68e7dba1
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.golf/msg/a9c15fd5b20a4a31
>
> "S McFarlane" <spam@nothanks.com> wrote in message
> news:LJSTg.14187$Oh3.5681@trnddc04...
> >
> > "Aress Gee" <invalid@not_real_address.com> wrote in message
> > news:bar7izkulit.fsf@server007.serverquality.com...
> >>>
> >> When the 'rules guru' says "there's a Decision that says XX" without
> >> citing that Decision it is difficult to provide a rebuttal with citation.
> >>
> >> Decision 26-1/8 is similar enough to the OP's situation to show
> >> that the player is entitled to relief, under penalty of one stroke,
> >> under Rule 26-1c(ii).
> >>
> >
> > I agree with this, but I take it one step farther. There is nothing in
> > the ROG to support what the 'guru' is talking about, as far as I can see.
> > Dropping on the other side of the hazard satisfies all the requirements of
> > Rule 26-1, therefore it should be played that way in the absence of either
> > a specific citation to the contrary (which doesn't appear to exist) or an
> > official ruling by the Commitee.
> >
> > Scott
> >
>
>
--
+++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Mr. People who use golf as some sort of status
Aress symbol are destined to go unfulfilled.
Gee -- Golf's Most Beloved Figure
+++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|
| | | | |
Date: 01 Oct 2006 11:25:00
From: Gm1234
Subject: Re: Rules Question - Lateral Hazard
|
"Aress Gee" wrote
> "S McFarlane" writes:
>
> > "sfb" <sfb@spam.net> wrote
> > >
> > > Did you guys bother reading the ROG?
> >
> > Did you bother reading his post?
THANKS McFarlane for that and to all others who provided good advice!
I believe he covered that issue in the
> > original post. If the rules guru is wrong about the alleged decision,
you
> > should simply state why and how.
>
> When the 'rules guru' says "there's a Decision that says XX" without
> citing that Decision it is difficult to provide a rebuttal with citation.
Our club rules official had a disagreement with our club pro on this issue.
He then brought in an Area rules official who stated that only 26.1(b)
applied because the boundary being crossed was also an OB. But, nothing yet
to validate this (I have asked for it).
I think the key point here, is whether or not 26.1 c(ii) applies if the
lateral boundary crossed is also an OB boundary. This could be true if rules
imply that ball if dropped within 2 club lengths of initial point of entry
would be OB and therefore 26.1(c)(ii) no longer applies. But I see nothing
that says this!
It's a bit like slicing or hooking a ball OB, hitting a tree or house and
bouncing back in bounds but into a lateral hazard. Presumably the ball is in
play but it cannot be dropped at the point of entry and may not be able to
be dropped in accordance with 26.1(b). (Many courses these days have red
staked laterals down the side of fairways, in order to speed up play)
Thanks again to all - I agree with being able to use 26.1(c)(ii) and will
until someone can show that it does not apply if the ball crosses into the
hazard from OB.
|
|
