Question about the Hand's Role & AJ Bonar in Golf Magazine

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Date: 11 Sep 2006 17:28:06
From: gp
Subject: Question about the Hand's Role & AJ Bonar in Golf Magazine

Do the hands just react to the big muscle swing that most of these
modern teachers preach? Assuming a good, fundamentally sound grip,
soft arms, etc. does the big muscle swing, when performed in the proper
sequence ensure that the hands will deliver a square clubface? ......
or...

...is AJ's theory of aggressively rotating the clubface when the arms
are hip high in the downswing hold true? I'd say AJ's theory holds
true. When I try to swing with "passive hands" I end up with a blocked
shot to the right.

Date: 15 Sep 2006 16:39:26
From: dsc
Subject: Re: Question about the Hand's Role & AJ Bonar in Golf Magazine

> http://www.megspace.com/sports/moetown/videos/ng_infom_amateur3.html
>
> This is what about 99% of amateurs look like on the range. No
> transition, and thus staying on their back foot, hitting it left,
> right, left, right.
>
> Larry

That guys stance is so wide it makes it very difficult to move your
weight back and then forward... He *might* improve significantly by
simply moving his feet closer together.

Date: 15 Sep 2006 16:33:38
From: larryrsf
Subject: Re: Question about the Hand's Role & AJ Bonar in Golf Magazine

Ernie wrote: >
> So we're back to the "transition" being everything, are we?

Yep.
>
> Hate to tell you this, Larry, but people who hit from their back leg are
> mostly hookers.

Nupe.

Larry (KING of RSG)

Date: 16 Sep 2006 03:41:48
From: Rob Davis
Subject: Re: Question about the Hand's Role & AJ Bonar in Golf Magazine

larryrsf wrote:
> Ernie wrote:>
>
>>So we're back to the "transition" being everything, are we?
>
>
> Yep.
>
>>Hate to tell you this, Larry, but people who hit from their back leg are
>>mostly hookers.
>
>
> Nupe.
>
> Larry (KING of RSG)
>

My experience as well is that if I get stuck with my weight back then
the likely result is an ugly hook ... I validated that theory a couple
of times during today's round 8^(..

I guess it's possible that not getting over to your front leg could
contribute to a slice, but getting there does NOT guarantee you won't
slice. I bet you any amount I can hit a huge slice standing on only my
front leg 8^).

Rob

Date: 15 Sep 2006 23:57:38
From: Ernie
Subject: Re: Question about the Hand's Role & AJ Bonar in Golf Magazine

In article <1158363218.122365.46370@d34g2000cwd.googlegroups.com >,
"larryrsf" <larry@deldata.com > wrote:

> Ernie wrote:>
> > So we're back to the "transition" being everything, are we?
>
> Yep.

So when you were telling us whatever last weeks "answer" was -- with
equal fervency -- you were wrong, then?

> >
> > Hate to tell you this, Larry, but people who hit from their back leg are
> > mostly hookers.
>
> Nupe.
>
> Larry (KING of RSG)

Date: 15 Sep 2006 16:25:12
From:
Subject: Re: Question about the Hand's Role & AJ Bonar in Golf Magazine

Dene wrote:

> I'm wondering if his theory is a rehash of Hogan. Ledbetter's book
> about Hogan's 5 fundamentals says that he opened his clubface by
> rotating his left forearm during the backswing and then undid it
> through the downswing.

Hogan does not advocate anything about rotating the forearms.
It is
"Keep the elbows as close together as possible the entire swing"
"The right elbow points straight down during the backswing"

And most importantly, the hands do not do ANYTHING active
on the downswing. They are positioned properly at the top of
the backswing, and the hips lead the downswing, and the
shoulder/arms/hands release passively through the ball. With
the arms compacted close to the body, and the club on plane,
the hands simply do their thing. Of course it takes a lot of
practice to get the position correct at the top, and to make
the correct hip motion to start it down, but after that it is
all passive release. In studying using Hogan's book, I looked
specifically to see if he says anything about opening/closing the
clubface. He absolutely does not.

I suspect Ledbetter was attempting to self-interpret Hogan. Certainly
the Hogan fundamentals do cause opening/closing of the clubface,
but Hogan was quite thorough in his book, and it is clearly not a
major swing thought. If you try to force this on a Hogan swing, I
don't think you will like the results. I didn't.

Nicklaus, however, who was a two-planer, advocated rotating
the forearms so far on the backswing that a hook was impossible,
and then rotating the forearms as aggressively through the
ball as possible. I guess he didn't really advocate it, but he
claimed that was how he handled forearm rotation in his own
swing. My cousin is a 1 handicapper and two plane swinger,
and he consciously rotates his forearms, too.

I'm guessing AJ has his hands PRETTY high on the backswing.

-PA

Date: 15 Sep 2006 14:03:18
From: larryrsf
Subject: Re: Question about the Hand's Role & AJ Bonar in Golf Magazine

Rob Davis wrote:
> larryrsf wrote:
> > Rob Davis wrote:
> >
> >>Frankenshank wrote:
> >>
> >>>I had diligently tried to exterminate hand action from my swing because
> >>>we've all ben drilled with
> >>>"NO HANDS... AAAAGHHH!" for years.
> >>>
> >>
> >>A big part of the confusion here IMO is that the term "hands" is misused
> >>and misunderstood. I'm no physiologist, but I think the "hands" in fact
> >>*can't* do anything except hold the club ... the only joints in the
> >>"hand" proper are the knuckles. The "hand" only moves because it's
> >>connected to the wrist and arm.
> >>
> >>The "wrist" may be seen as part of the "hand", so part of the "no hands"
> >>edict may be to prevent "flipping" the club with the wrists ... 'cause
> >>that's a bad thing. There's also an issue of getting too active in
> >>rotating the club face (usually a better players problem). And a lot of
> >>teachers believe the release should happen "naturally" as a reaction to
> >>the swinging of the club and the centifigal force ... that's a nice
> >>thought, but as evidenced by the army of slicers not always the case 8^).
> >>
> >>As I've said before ... I think some folks need to have their
> >>hands/wrist/arms "educated" about getting the clubface square through
> >>impact ... and that's where AJ teaching is most useful.
> >>
> >>Rob
> >
> >
> > Adding hand manipulation to a fundamentally poor swing, one without a
> > transition to the front leg-- is putting "lipstick on a pig."
> > Slicers slice because like 90% of amateurs, they hit off their back
> > leg.
> >
> > Larry
> >
>
> Can you define "hand manipulation"?
>
> Your boy Ernest Jones must have had a wicked slice since he only had one
> leg 8^).
>
> Rob

http://www.megspace.com/sports/moetown/videos/ng_infom_amateur3.html

This is what about 99% of amateurs look like on the range. No
transition, and thus staying on their back foot, hitting it left,
right, left, right.

Larry

Date: 16 Sep 2006 03:36:05
From: Rob Davis
Subject: Re: Question about the Hand's Role & AJ Bonar in Golf Magazine

larryrsf wrote:
> Rob Davis wrote:
>
>>larryrsf wrote:
>>
>>>Rob Davis wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Frankenshank wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I had diligently tried to exterminate hand action from my swing because
>>>>>we've all ben drilled with
>>>>>"NO HANDS... AAAAGHHH!" for years.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>A big part of the confusion here IMO is that the term "hands" is misused
>>>>and misunderstood. I'm no physiologist, but I think the "hands" in fact
>>>>*can't* do anything except hold the club ... the only joints in the
>>>>"hand" proper are the knuckles. The "hand" only moves because it's
>>>>connected to the wrist and arm.
>>>>
>>>>The "wrist" may be seen as part of the "hand", so part of the "no hands"
>>>>edict may be to prevent "flipping" the club with the wrists ... 'cause
>>>>that's a bad thing. There's also an issue of getting too active in
>>>>rotating the club face (usually a better players problem). And a lot of
>>>>teachers believe the release should happen "naturally" as a reaction to
>>>>the swinging of the club and the centifigal force ... that's a nice
>>>>thought, but as evidenced by the army of slicers not always the case 8^).
>>>>
>>>>As I've said before ... I think some folks need to have their
>>>>hands/wrist/arms "educated" about getting the clubface square through
>>>>impact ... and that's where AJ teaching is most useful.
>>>>
>>>>Rob
>>>
>>>
>>>Adding hand manipulation to a fundamentally poor swing, one without a
>>>transition to the front leg-- is putting "lipstick on a pig."
>>>Slicers slice because like 90% of amateurs, they hit off their back
>>>leg.
>>>
>>>Larry
>>>
>>
>>Can you define "hand manipulation"?
>>
>>Your boy Ernest Jones must have had a wicked slice since he only had one
>>leg 8^).
>>
>>Rob
>
>
> http://www.megspace.com/sports/moetown/videos/ng_infom_amateur3.html
>
> This is what about 99% of amateurs look like on the range. No
> transition, and thus staying on their back foot, hitting it left,
> right, left, right.
>
> Larry
>

Uhh ... does that in any way answer the question I asked? Do you even
bother to read what someone else posts before you reply?

Rob

Date: 15 Sep 2006 21:29:54
From: Ernie
Subject: Re: Question about the Hand's Role & AJ Bonar in Golf Magazine

In article <1158354198.592017.307020@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com >,
"larryrsf" <larry@deldata.com > wrote:

> Rob Davis wrote:
> > larryrsf wrote:
> > > Rob Davis wrote:
> > >
> > >>Frankenshank wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>I had diligently tried to exterminate hand action from my swing because
> > >>>we've all ben drilled with
> > >>>"NO HANDS... AAAAGHHH!" for years.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>A big part of the confusion here IMO is that the term "hands" is misused
> > >>and misunderstood. I'm no physiologist, but I think the "hands" in fact
> > >>*can't* do anything except hold the club ... the only joints in the
> > >>"hand" proper are the knuckles. The "hand" only moves because it's
> > >>connected to the wrist and arm.
> > >>
> > >>The "wrist" may be seen as part of the "hand", so part of the "no hands"
> > >>edict may be to prevent "flipping" the club with the wrists ... 'cause
> > >>that's a bad thing. There's also an issue of getting too active in
> > >>rotating the club face (usually a better players problem). And a lot of
> > >>teachers believe the release should happen "naturally" as a reaction to
> > >>the swinging of the club and the centifigal force ... that's a nice
> > >>thought, but as evidenced by the army of slicers not always the case 8^).
> > >>
> > >>As I've said before ... I think some folks need to have their
> > >>hands/wrist/arms "educated" about getting the clubface square through
> > >>impact ... and that's where AJ teaching is most useful.
> > >>
> > >>Rob
> > >
> > >
> > > Adding hand manipulation to a fundamentally poor swing, one without a
> > > transition to the front leg-- is putting "lipstick on a pig."
> > > Slicers slice because like 90% of amateurs, they hit off their back
> > > leg.
> > >
> > > Larry
> > >
> >
> > Can you define "hand manipulation"?
> >
> > Your boy Ernest Jones must have had a wicked slice since he only had one
> > leg 8^).
> >
> > Rob
>
> http://www.megspace.com/sports/moetown/videos/ng_infom_amateur3.html
>
> This is what about 99% of amateurs look like on the range. No
> transition, and thus staying on their back foot, hitting it left,
> right, left, right.
>
> Larry

How do you know where that guy hits the ball?

Date: 15 Sep 2006 11:57:54
From: Dave Clary
Subject: Re: Question about the Hand's Role & AJ Bonar in Golf Magazine

Fairway wrote:
swing with "passive hands" I end up with a blocked
> > shot to the right.
>
> Interesting - but who is AJ ? F

A. J. Bonar

Dave
Googlin'

Date: 15 Sep 2006 11:56:45
From: Dave Clary
Subject: Re: Question about the Hand's Role & AJ Bonar in Golf Magazine

Dene wrote:
> I'm wondering if his theory is a rehash of Hogan. Ledbetter's book
> about Hogan's 5 fundamentals says that he opened his clubface by
> rotating his left forearm during the backswing and then undid it
> through the downswing.
>
> Does AJ advocate the same rotation in the backswing?
>
> -Greg

Yes he does. His theory is that the club face should be actively
rotating through impact. For demonstration purposes he uses a club
that has a clubhead shaped like a baseball bat. His catch phrase is
that you should try to "hit home runs." But rather than, as you said
above, think of rotating the left forearm, he advocates using the
dominant hand to control the clubface (the opposite of TGM). Bonar
also teaches a right-hand dominated chipping stroke.

Dave
Googlin' on a slow Friday

Date: 15 Sep 2006 10:29:51
From: larryrsf
Subject: Re: Question about the Hand's Role & AJ Bonar in Golf Magazine

Rob Davis wrote:
> Frankenshank wrote:
> > I had diligently tried to exterminate hand action from my swing because
> > we've all ben drilled with
> > "NO HANDS... AAAAGHHH!" for years.
> >
>
> A big part of the confusion here IMO is that the term "hands" is misused
> and misunderstood. I'm no physiologist, but I think the "hands" in fact
> *can't* do anything except hold the club ... the only joints in the
> "hand" proper are the knuckles. The "hand" only moves because it's
> connected to the wrist and arm.
>
> The "wrist" may be seen as part of the "hand", so part of the "no hands"
> edict may be to prevent "flipping" the club with the wrists ... 'cause
> that's a bad thing. There's also an issue of getting too active in
> rotating the club face (usually a better players problem). And a lot of
> teachers believe the release should happen "naturally" as a reaction to
> the swinging of the club and the centifigal force ... that's a nice
> thought, but as evidenced by the army of slicers not always the case 8^).
>
> As I've said before ... I think some folks need to have their
> hands/wrist/arms "educated" about getting the clubface square through
> impact ... and that's where AJ teaching is most useful.
>
> Rob

Adding hand manipulation to a fundamentally poor swing, one without a
transition to the front leg-- is putting "lipstick on a pig."
Slicers slice because like 90% of amateurs, they hit off their back
leg.

Larry

Date:
From:
Subject:

Date: 15 Sep 2006 17:56:55
From: Rob Davis
Subject: Re: Question about the Hand's Role & AJ Bonar in Golf Magazine

larryrsf wrote:
> Rob Davis wrote:
>
>>Frankenshank wrote:
>>
>>>I had diligently tried to exterminate hand action from my swing because
>>>we've all ben drilled with
>>>"NO HANDS... AAAAGHHH!" for years.
>>>
>>
>>A big part of the confusion here IMO is that the term "hands" is misused
>>and misunderstood. I'm no physiologist, but I think the "hands" in fact
>>*can't* do anything except hold the club ... the only joints in the
>>"hand" proper are the knuckles. The "hand" only moves because it's
>>connected to the wrist and arm.
>>
>>The "wrist" may be seen as part of the "hand", so part of the "no hands"
>>edict may be to prevent "flipping" the club with the wrists ... 'cause
>>that's a bad thing. There's also an issue of getting too active in
>>rotating the club face (usually a better players problem). And a lot of
>>teachers believe the release should happen "naturally" as a reaction to
>>the swinging of the club and the centifigal force ... that's a nice
>>thought, but as evidenced by the army of slicers not always the case 8^).
>>
>>As I've said before ... I think some folks need to have their
>>hands/wrist/arms "educated" about getting the clubface square through
>>impact ... and that's where AJ teaching is most useful.
>>
>>Rob
>
>
> Adding hand manipulation to a fundamentally poor swing, one without a
> transition to the front leg-- is putting "lipstick on a pig."
> Slicers slice because like 90% of amateurs, they hit off their back
> leg.
>
> Larry
>

Can you define "hand manipulation"?

Your boy Ernest Jones must have had a wicked slice since he only had one
leg 8^).

Rob

Date: 15 Sep 2006 10:23:13
From: Ken Meltzer
Subject: Re: Question about the Hand's Role & AJ Bonar in Golf Magazine

Rob Davis wrote:

> The "wrist" may be seen as part of the "hand", so part of the "no hands"
> edict may be to prevent "flipping" the club with the wrists ... 'cause
> that's a bad thing. There's also an issue of getting too active in
> rotating the club face (usually a better players problem). And a lot of
> teachers believe the release should happen "naturally" as a reaction to
> the swinging of the club and the centifigal force ... that's a nice
> thought, but as evidenced by the army of slicers not always the case 8^).

Right, because they interfere with the natural path of the club. AJ's
"Secret" seems to me to be a way of getting people to overcome their
bad habits and to get the club to rotate properly through the hitting
zone.
But if you don't have the bad habits to begin with, the club will do
what it is supposed to. I thought the line in GOLF magazine that all
tour pros do what AJ teaches "whether they realize it or not" is a
revealing one.
Best,
Ken

Date: 15 Sep 2006 08:50:39
From: larryrsf
Subject: Re: Question about the Hand's Role & AJ Bonar in Golf Magazine

gp wrote:
> Do the hands just react to the big muscle swing that most of these
> modern teachers preach? Assuming a good, fundamentally sound grip,
> soft arms, etc. does the big muscle swing, when performed in the proper
> sequence ensure that the hands will deliver a square clubface? ......
> or...
>
> ...is AJ's theory of aggressively rotating the clubface when the arms
> are hip high in the downswing hold true? I'd say AJ's theory holds
> true. When I try to swing with "passive hands" I end up with a blocked
> shot to the right.

The ball goes straight when you finish your swing--when you keep the
clubhead moving all the way over your left shoulder--ending up in the
classic finish position, all your weight on your left leg. If you
decelerate, of course you block it to the right. When you look down
you will see that you stayed back and did not hit it off your front
foot.

Many who cannot get off their back foot, make a transition during the
golf swing learn to "fake" it with hand manipulation, flipping the
clubhead closed with elaborate timing. That is a recipe for wild
inconsistency, of course. Those golfers must become very good at
recovering, because they will inevitably play out of the rough, the
treeline, and dropping another one after OB.

I believe that Gene Littler's statement, "the hands have no role in the
golf swing" accounts for "Gene the Machine's" fantastic driving
accuracy over the years. He swings with "dead hands" and thus every
ball goes straight. I doubt he has driven into the rough in several
years!

I believe AJ's article, especially when it will be read and tried by
high handicappers, is highly irresponsible. That will result in
disasters Saturday morning all over the world. Responsible teachers
must be shaking their heads.

Larry

Date: 16 Sep 2006 11:54:09
From: Jim Barrett
Subject: Re: Question about the Hand's Role & AJ Bonar in Golf Magazine

"larryrsf" <larry@deldata.com > wrote in
news:1158335439.840368.319010@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

>
> gp wrote:
>> Do the hands just react to the big muscle swing that most of these
>> modern teachers preach? Assuming a good, fundamentally sound grip,
>> soft arms, etc. does the big muscle swing, when performed in the proper
>> sequence ensure that the hands will deliver a square clubface? ......
>> or...
>>
>> ...is AJ's theory of aggressively rotating the clubface when the arms
>> are hip high in the downswing hold true? I'd say AJ's theory holds
>> true. When I try to swing with "passive hands" I end up with a blocked
>> shot to the right.
>
> The ball goes straight when you finish your swing--when you keep the
> clubhead moving all the way over your left shoulder--ending up in the
> classic finish position, all your weight on your left leg.

Not necessarily. Here's another clip from the same web site as your other
example.

http://www.megspace.com/sports/moetown/videos/moe_side_clip.html

Wide stance, no hip turn, no "classic finish position".

It is, of course, a clip of Moe Norman... a fellow who knew a little
something about hitting a golf ball with extreme accuracy.

The point being that one can achieve excellent results with a highly
unorthodox swing.

That being said, what AJ Bonar teaches is NOT "hand manipulation" as such,
but rather deliberate manipulation of the FOREARMS to cause the right hand
to roll over the left at impact... "snapping" the clubhead from open to
square at impact, then closed during the follow through. The hands
themselves are still pretty much "going along for the ride".

Jim Barrett

Date: 15 Sep 2006 21:32:04
From: Ernie
Subject: Re: Question about the Hand's Role & AJ Bonar in Golf Magazine

In article <1158335439.840368.319010@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com >,
"larryrsf" <larry@deldata.com > wrote:

> gp wrote:
> > Do the hands just react to the big muscle swing that most of these
> > modern teachers preach? Assuming a good, fundamentally sound grip,
> > soft arms, etc. does the big muscle swing, when performed in the proper
> > sequence ensure that the hands will deliver a square clubface? ......
> > or...
> >
> > ...is AJ's theory of aggressively rotating the clubface when the arms
> > are hip high in the downswing hold true? I'd say AJ's theory holds
> > true. When I try to swing with "passive hands" I end up with a blocked
> > shot to the right.
>
> The ball goes straight when you finish your swing--when you keep the
> clubhead moving all the way over your left shoulder--ending up in the
> classic finish position, all your weight on your left leg. If you
> decelerate, of course you block it to the right. When you look down
> you will see that you stayed back and did not hit it off your front
> foot.

I thought the ball went straight when ever you aggressively moved your
hands down the target line through impact?

>
> Many who cannot get off their back foot, make a transition during the
> golf swing learn to "fake" it with hand manipulation, flipping the
> clubhead closed with elaborate timing. That is a recipe for wild
> inconsistency, of course. Those golfers must become very good at
> recovering, because they will inevitably play out of the rough, the
> treeline, and dropping another one after OB.
>
> I believe that Gene Littler's statement, "the hands have no role in the
> golf swing" accounts for "Gene the Machine's" fantastic driving
> accuracy over the years. He swings with "dead hands" and thus every
> ball goes straight. I doubt he has driven into the rough in several
> years!

Funny: you didn't believe it last week? Or was it last month?

>
> I believe AJ's article, especially when it will be read and tried by
> high handicappers, is highly irresponsible. That will result in
> disasters Saturday morning all over the world. Responsible teachers
> must be shaking their heads.

Riiiiiight. Because you are so uniquely qualified -- not just to teach
golf -- but to pass judgement on renowned teachers...

What a joke.

Date: 15 Sep 2006 08:31:51
From: Fairway
Subject: Re: Question about the Hand's Role & AJ Bonar in Golf Magazine

Frankenshank wrote:
> > Mike Dalecki has had success with AJ's stuff, maybe I'll give it a
> shot.
Mike Dalecki? Not a compliment, exactly. F

Date: 15 Sep 2006 07:57:13
From: Frankenshank
Subject: Re: Question about the Hand's Role & AJ Bonar in Golf Magazine

gp wrote:

snip

> ...is AJ's theory of aggressively rotating the clubface when the arms
> are hip high in the downswing hold true? I'd say AJ's theory holds
> true. When I try to swing with "passive hands" I end up with a blocked
> shot to the right.

Aside from AJ's personal quirks which reportedly annoy some, I think
he makes a GREAT point, one that may be the "missing link" for a lot of
weekend golfers, myself included.

I ran across this happily at my last lesson: the pro drilled home the
feeling of square impact, and that he wanted me to be aware of the
clubhead/face, and yes, actively use "supination" to square
the face. (he grabbed my hands and repeatedly demonstrated the squaring
action) Painful to admit this was the first time I ever hit a 7 iron
150 yards.

I had diligently tried to exterminate hand action from my swing because
we've all ben drilled with
"NO HANDS... AAAAGHHH!" for years.

The really funny thing is, when I got home after my lesson, my wife
handed me "GOLF" magazine with the AJ Bonar feature.

Mike Dalecki has had success with AJ's stuff, maybe I'll give it a
shot.

FrankenShank

Date: 15 Sep 2006 17:13:46
From: Rob Davis
Subject: Re: Question about the Hand's Role & AJ Bonar in Golf Magazine

Frankenshank wrote:
> I had diligently tried to exterminate hand action from my swing because
> we've all ben drilled with
> "NO HANDS... AAAAGHHH!" for years.
>

A big part of the confusion here IMO is that the term "hands" is misused
and misunderstood. I'm no physiologist, but I think the "hands" in fact
*can't* do anything except hold the club ... the only joints in the
"hand" proper are the knuckles. The "hand" only moves because it's
connected to the wrist and arm.

The "wrist" may be seen as part of the "hand", so part of the "no hands"
edict may be to prevent "flipping" the club with the wrists ... 'cause
that's a bad thing. There's also an issue of getting too active in
rotating the club face (usually a better players problem). And a lot of
teachers believe the release should happen "naturally" as a reaction to
the swinging of the club and the centifigal force ... that's a nice
thought, but as evidenced by the army of slicers not always the case 8^).

As I've said before ... I think some folks need to have their
hands/wrist/arms "educated" about getting the clubface square through
impact ... and that's where AJ teaching is most useful.

Rob

Date: 14 Sep 2006 23:33:18
From: Dene
Subject: Re: Question about the Hand's Role & AJ Bonar in Golf Magazine

Date: 14 Sep 2006 17:58:33
From: EdSmithers
Subject: Re: Question about the Hand's Role & AJ Bonar in Golf Magazine

> ...is AJ's theory of aggressively rotating the clubface when the
arms
> > are hip high in the downswing hold true? I'd say AJ's theory holds
> > true. When I try to swing with "passive hands" I end up with a blocked
> > shot to the right.

After reading the article I played 9 holes today and I'm a convert.

I drove the ball about 20-40 yards longer on most holes. Even my irons
increased about 10 yards. It's very true that for a few holes I was
hitting pretty serious hooks, but they exploded off my club like I had
packed the thing with C4.

By the 4th hole I had the rotation under control - it's MUCH more
subtle than I thought - and I can't wait to try it again tomorrow.

Whatever I hadn't been doing in my swing, this has really addressed.
Who knows if it'd work for my neighbor. But I'm glad I tried it.

Ed

Date: 12 Sep 2006 05:04:52
From: Simon
Subject: Re: Question about the Hand's Role & AJ Bonar in Golf Magazine

gp wrote:

> Do the hands just react to the big muscle swing that most of these
> modern teachers preach? Assuming a good, fundamentally sound grip,
> soft arms, etc. does the big muscle swing, when performed in the proper
> sequence ensure that the hands will deliver a square clubface? ......
> or...
>
> ...is AJ's theory of aggressively rotating the clubface when the arms
> are hip high in the downswing hold true? I'd say AJ's theory holds
> true. When I try to swing with "passive hands" I end up with a blocked
> shot to the right.

I find I have two swings - a good one and a bad one. With my good
swing, I make a good turn and the club comes back and through inside
and my hands rotate naturally through the ball.
Now and again, I start to turn less and less, picking the club up
steeply and coming down steeply with my hands just pushing through the
ball (any rotation of my hands would just cause a big pull now). To
cure this, I have to concentrate on taking the club back inside. For
the first few rounds I then have to make myself rotate my hands to get
a square strike. After a couple of rounds, my body gets the idea and my
hands start to rotate naturally again.

If you practice any move enough it will become automatic and any
concious effort will just overdo it.

Date: 12 Sep 2006 04:28:06
From: Fairway
Subject: Re: Question about the Hand's Role & AJ Bonar in Golf Magazine

gp wrote:
> ...is AJ's theory of aggressively rotating the clubface when the arms
> are hip high in the downswing hold true? I'd say AJ's theory holds
> true. When I try to swing with "passive hands" I end up with a blocked
> shot to the right.

Interesting - but who is AJ ? F

Date: 12 Sep 2006 03:31:21
From: Rob Davis
Subject: Re: Question about the Hand's Role & AJ Bonar in Golf Magazine

I think that it depends (like a lot of things in learning golf) on what
your natural tendencies are.

I suspect that a lot of good golfers have naturally "fast hands" ... and
their bodies have learned that letting the hands really release through
the impact area makes the ball go far and straight ... and they might
tend to overdo this, and for them a good swing thought might be
"passive" hands.

The flip side of this is your basic hacker, who tends to "hit at" the
ball, leaves the club face open and (coupled with an OTT swing) creates
a wicked slice. They need to "educate" their hands to square the
clubface, and might get a lot of good out of being a bit more aggressive
with their hands.

In a perfect world it would be a natural action (or maybe reaction) and
"just happen" (I hate that term) ... it often doesn't.

(Note that the word "hands" above may be misleading, although it is
often thought of and spoken of in that way ... the correct action is
really more in the forearms I think and not to be confused with
"flipping" the wrists).

Rob

gp wrote:
> Do the hands just react to the big muscle swing that most of these
> modern teachers preach? Assuming a good, fundamentally sound grip,
> soft arms, etc. does the big muscle swing, when performed in the proper
> sequence ensure that the hands will deliver a square clubface? ......
> or...
>
> ...is AJ's theory of aggressively rotating the clubface when the arms
> are hip high in the downswing hold true? I'd say AJ's theory holds
> true. When I try to swing with "passive hands" I end up with a blocked
> shot to the right.
>

Date: 11 Sep 2006 20:13:54
From: Mike Dalecki
Subject: Re: Question about the Hand's Role & AJ Bonar in Golf Magazine