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Main
Date: 11 Oct 2006 08:51:06
From: warren montgomery
Subject: Pigs on the links
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I don't understand what goes on in the heads of some folks, especially when
it comes to where they drive their carts. Why is it that in spite of plenty
of warnings to keep carts away from tees and greens and use the paths in
those areas that people insist on driving into areas where there's no way
you could imagine anyone taking a cart. The 11th hole on my course is a par
3 with two tees, a lower tee where the "mens" tees usually are and an
elevated and somewhat forward tee where the shorter tees usually are. The
cart path runs to the left of the mens tees with the elevated tee on the
right. A couple of weeks ago they started putting all the kers on the
elevated tee to let the other one recover a bit from aeration. Now there is
a well developed set of ruts and trampled grasses in the 10 foot wide
slanting space between the two tees! I see people all the time take carts
around behind greens that have a steep drop off into a water hazard behind
them, or between bunkers and greens where they have to drive on the apron to
avoid the sand. One hole on our course has a tee shot over 16 yards of wild
land that is sometimes shy. The cart path runs around it to the fairway.
For years there's been a narrow path through it used by people walking (it
cuts off about 50 yards probably over walking the path). Starting 2-3 years
ago people insisted on driving carts through this area, even though at least
a couple have gotten them mired in there. The course super has tried
sticking up ropes and even tried to block it with a discarded cement tee
ker, but the pigs just cut a new set of ruts around it. Now the area is
a muddy hog wallow
What does it take to get people to stop doing this? Barbed wire fences?
Land mines?
Actually I have a great idea of electronic enforcement of "no carts"
zones -- program the forbidden areas into the GPS on board. First time you
venture into one you get a warning to get out. Stay there or go in again
and it puts a little fine on your bill. Go in again and the fine gets
bigger. Never happen of course until players make a point of complaining
about the damage caused by people driving carts into the wrong places.
--
Warren Montgomery (wamontgomery@att.net)
http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery
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Date: 16 Oct 2006 20:30:45
From: Birdie Bill
Subject: Re: Pigs on the links
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On Oct 16, 8:08 pm, Peter Strauss <pfs...@earthlink.net > wrote:
> On 11 Oct 2006 08:48:41 -0700, "oconn...@slr.orl.lmco.com"
>
> <oconn...@slr.orl.lmco.com> wrote:
> > The end result is that it is carts. People aren't "responsible"
> > enough
> > to use them. It's a big reason why spikes got banned. If they just
> > made everyone walk, it would solve alot of these problems. They could
> > try to go to some sort of Seway sized individual vehicle, but that
> > would
> > probably only increase the ability of folks to drive into dumb areas.
> > Caddies probably would help too, but those aren't coming back anytime
> > too soon. More shalls are another potential solution that won't get
> > used. I've often envisioned a system by which your cart is on a rail,
> > and you get out and walk your bag back and forth to your ball. Besides
> > the expense, I suspect such a system also wouldn't be all that popular.On at least one course at which I play -- Poppy Ridge, Livermore, CA
> (and officiate in Association tournaments) -- the carts, which are
> electric, will not function if they go where they're not wanted. I'm
> not sure how this is accomplished; my guess is that there are some
> buried thingummies that shut the carts off when they stray, but
> regardless, it's very effective.
It's a no-brainer. The software knows where the cart is due to the gps
unit on the cart. They can k off certain areas of the course as
being off-limits, and when you stray they shut down the motor, except
in reverse.
They can also k off the area around the clubhouse, and make
you slow down in that area.
I hate it.
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Date: 11 Oct 2006 21:03:52
From: Birdie Bill
Subject: Re: Pigs on the links
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On Oct 11, 7:47 pm, "annika1980" <annika1...@aol.com > wrote:
> Who else thought this was gonna be a LauraB post about the LPGA?
I thought it was going to be about a police tournament (and no
offense intended towards my pig buddies, which I have a few).
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Date: 11 Oct 2006 17:50:40
From: annika1980
Subject: Re: Pigs on the links
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Who else thought this was gonna be a Laura B post about the LPGA?
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Date: 11 Oct 2006 19:19:51
From: long&left
Subject: Re: Pigs on the links
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annika1980 wrote:
> Who else thought this was gonna be a Laura B post about the LPGA?
>
I did
I did
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Date: 11 Oct 2006 17:47:12
From: annika1980
Subject: Re: Pigs on the links
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Who else thought this was gonna be a LauraB post about the LPGA?
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Date: 11 Oct 2006 10:26:29
From: dsc
Subject: Re: Pigs on the links
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> I doubt that anyone
> in that group will be playing there again.
It wouldn't suprise me all that much. The people that run some
courses... just want the money and will put with quite a bit as long as
the get it.
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Date: 11 Oct 2006 16:52:39
From: Bear
Subject: Re: Pigs on the links
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On Wed, 11 Oct 2006 08:51:06 -0500, "warren montgomery"
<wamontgomery@worldnet.att.net > wrote:
>I don't understand what goes on in the heads of some folks, especially when
>it comes to where they drive their carts. Why is it that in spite of plenty
>of warnings to keep carts away from tees and greens and use the paths in
>those areas that people insist on driving into areas where there's no way
>you could imagine anyone taking a cart. The 11th hole on my course is a par
>3 with two tees, a lower tee where the "mens" tees usually are and an
>elevated and somewhat forward tee where the shorter tees usually are. The
>cart path runs to the left of the mens tees with the elevated tee on the
>right. A couple of weeks ago they started putting all the kers on the
>elevated tee to let the other one recover a bit from aeration. Now there is
>a well developed set of ruts and trampled grasses in the 10 foot wide
>slanting space between the two tees! I see people all the time take carts
>around behind greens that have a steep drop off into a water hazard behind
>them, or between bunkers and greens where they have to drive on the apron to
>avoid the sand. One hole on our course has a tee shot over 16 yards of wild
>land that is sometimes shy. The cart path runs around it to the fairway.
>For years there's been a narrow path through it used by people walking (it
>cuts off about 50 yards probably over walking the path). Starting 2-3 years
>ago people insisted on driving carts through this area, even though at least
>a couple have gotten them mired in there. The course super has tried
>sticking up ropes and even tried to block it with a discarded cement tee
>ker, but the pigs just cut a new set of ruts around it. Now the area is
>a muddy hog wallow
>
>What does it take to get people to stop doing this? Barbed wire fences?
>Land mines?
>Actually I have a great idea of electronic enforcement of "no carts"
>zones -- program the forbidden areas into the GPS on board. First time you
>venture into one you get a warning to get out. Stay there or go in again
>and it puts a little fine on your bill. Go in again and the fine gets
>bigger. Never happen of course until players make a point of complaining
>about the damage caused by people driving carts into the wrong places.
Played earlier this year behind a couple of groups who turned out to
be a bachelor party. You could hear them everywhere on the course and
you could see the detritus that they left behind.
On the front nine they were loud and empties would be left on or near
the green. Annoying but what the heck it was at most annoying and for
a while even a little funny.
The back nine... yikes! Louder and louder and the garbage started to
appear. Wrappers, bottles and just about anything else that could be
jettisoned was. On the tee, in the rough and on the green. We noticed
that not much was discarded on the fairways and guessed it was because
they were never on the fairway. Worst of it started around the 12th
hole as they decided that the carts were dune buggies and well them
big ol' bunkers were close enough to dunes. There was also tracks that
lead into areas that I wouldn't consider walking into.
About the best thing about the aholes was that they were quick. We
never actually saw them until the 18th hole which is when we also
discovered that it was a bachelor party. We stopped into the pro shop
after and mentioned all this to the pro and left. I doubt that anyone
in that group will be playing there again.
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Date: 11 Oct 2006 11:46:27
From: Mike Dalecki
Subject: Re: Pigs on the links
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warren montgomery wrote:
> I don't understand what goes on in the heads of some folks, especially when
> it comes to where they drive their carts. Why is it that in spite of plenty
> of warnings to keep carts away from tees and greens and use the paths in
> those areas that people insist on driving into areas where there's no way
> you could imagine anyone taking a cart. The 11th hole on my course is a par
> 3 with two tees, a lower tee where the "mens" tees usually are and an
> elevated and somewhat forward tee where the shorter tees usually are. The
> cart path runs to the left of the mens tees with the elevated tee on the
> right. A couple of weeks ago they started putting all the kers on the
> elevated tee to let the other one recover a bit from aeration. Now there is
> a well developed set of ruts and trampled grasses in the 10 foot wide
> slanting space between the two tees! I see people all the time take carts
> around behind greens that have a steep drop off into a water hazard behind
> them, or between bunkers and greens where they have to drive on the apron to
> avoid the sand. One hole on our course has a tee shot over 16 yards of wild
> land that is sometimes shy. The cart path runs around it to the fairway.
> For years there's been a narrow path through it used by people walking (it
> cuts off about 50 yards probably over walking the path). Starting 2-3 years
> ago people insisted on driving carts through this area, even though at least
> a couple have gotten them mired in there. The course super has tried
> sticking up ropes and even tried to block it with a discarded cement tee
> ker, but the pigs just cut a new set of ruts around it. Now the area is
> a muddy hog wallow
>
> What does it take to get people to stop doing this? Barbed wire fences?
> Land mines?
> Actually I have a great idea of electronic enforcement of "no carts"
> zones -- program the forbidden areas into the GPS on board. First time you
> venture into one you get a warning to get out. Stay there or go in again
> and it puts a little fine on your bill. Go in again and the fine gets
> bigger. Never happen of course until players make a point of complaining
> about the damage caused by people driving carts into the wrong places.
>
You probably don't remember this at The Oaks, Warren, since you were
walking, but their carts actually have a "don't go there" feature on
them, such that if you go in the wrong place it beeps at you, and if you
keep going it'll shut down on you.
Mike
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Dalecki GCA Accredited Clubmaker http://clubdoctor.com
RSG-Wisconsin 2006: June 23-25 Info: http://dalecki.net/rsgwis2006/
RSG-Wisconsin 2005 Pics: http://dalecki.net/rsgwis2005/pics/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: 11 Oct 2006 09:30:52
From: Larry Bud
Subject: Re: Pigs on the links
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Stratman wrote:
> Golf is essentially a walking game. If you want to drive for pleasure take
> up motor racing.
>
> Ban carts and watch the five hour round vanish.
Where do you live? There are just some courses in the US that would be
near impossible to walk.
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Date: 11 Oct 2006 17:17:26
From: Stratman
Subject: Re: Pigs on the links
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Golf is essentially a walking game. If you want to drive for pleasure take
up motor racing.
Ban carts and watch the five hour round vanish.
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Date: 12 Oct 2006 12:10:58
From: John Reddy
Subject: Re: Pigs on the links
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In article <452d1920$0$8740$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net >,
"Stratman" <nospam@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Golf is essentially a walking game. If you want to drive for pleasure take
> up motor racing.
>
> Ban carts and watch the five hour round vanish.
I disagree. Five hour rounds are caused by people who have no clue or
care about maintaining pace. Usually, high handicappers and
inexperienced golfers are to blame but not always by any means.
At my former club, there was a group of scratch to low single digit
handicappers who grabbed the first tee times every Saturday and Sunday.
They consistently played 4-1/2 hour rounds or even longer with nobody in
front of them. Every shot each one of them made was carefully studied
and analyzed. On the greens, they looked like a bunch of Bernard Langer
clones. It was frustrating as hell, yet nobody would do anything about
it. It didn't help that each of them held some kind of club office.
Their slow play set the pace for the rest of the day and drove many of
us out of there.
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Date: 12 Oct 2006 09:12:17
From: warren montgomery
Subject: Re: Pigs on the links
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>> Ban carts and watch the five hour round vanish.
>
> I disagree. Five hour rounds are caused by people who have no clue or
> care about maintaining pace. Usually, high handicappers and
> inexperienced golfers are to blame but not always by any means.
>
Well right about people who are clueless, wrong about it being beginners.
Actually in my experience it's more often regular players who are to blame.
Slow play is about not being ready to make your shot when it's your turn and
not getting out of the way after you hit it. I used to believe carts were a
non-factor in this, but I have come to believe that there is a grain of
truth in blaming it on carts. It's not that people can't play at a
reasonable pace in carts, but people can develop some REALLY bad habits in
carts that they don't pick up playing on foot:
A golf cart is a portable park bench. Most people would rather sit than
stand, so it's natural for cart players to sit their on their asses rather
than get ready to hit.
There are a lot of people who can't be in close proximity to others without
talking. When you are walking, you are often alone at your ball getting
ready to hit. Sitting in a cart people get into conversations and stop
paying attention to other things. Not only do they not pay attention to
when they should be getting ready to hit, but often they lose track of where
their shots went, meaning lots more searches in the rough.
People carry much more junk in carts and tend to use it. Food, drink,
smokes, cell phones, etc. Think about the last time you saw someone talking
on the phone on the course -- I'll bet that person was in a cart. Using all
that stuff is another reason not to be ready to play.
Playing in a cart you often arrive at the ball without having thought much
about the shot. The compensation is of course the pre-shot routine.
Walking players don't need much of a pre-shot routine because they have
already figured out what to do before they get to the ball. The pre-shot
stuff is harmless except when it isn't started until it's the time you
should be hitting.
It's not that people in carts can't play fast -- there's nothing faster on
the course than a single in a cart who knows what he's doing. It's that it
takes conscious thought and effort to avoid the slow play habbits, so:
1) Pay attention and be ready to hit when you can -- this means getting off
your ass, picking a club, and loosening up as soon as you get to the ball,
and not sitting there yacking.
2) Pay attention to where your shots go and start looking for anything you
can't see as soon as you can -- don't wait until it's your turn.
3) Get out of the way when you are done. One of the most annoying cart
player habits is guys (and whenever I've seen it it has been guys) who sit
in their carts next to the green figuring the scores and bets while you
stand there waiting to hit.
--
Warren Montgomery (wamontgomery@att.net)
http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery
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Date: 12 Oct 2006 05:56:46
From: bill-o
Subject: Re: Pigs on the links
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On 11-Oct-2006, "Stratman" <nospam@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Golf is essentially a walking game. If you want to drive for pleasure take
>
> up motor racing.
>
> Ban carts and watch the five hour round vanish.
Hear Hear!
--
bill-o
A "gimme" can best be defined as an agreement between
two golfers neither of whom can putt very well.
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Date: 11 Oct 2006 13:47:16
From: sfb
Subject: Re: Pigs on the links
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May you never grow old and frail.
"Stratman" <nospam@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:452d1920$0$8740$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>
> Golf is essentially a walking game. If you want to drive for pleasure take
> up motor racing.
>
> Ban carts and watch the five hour round vanish.
>
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Date: 11 Oct 2006 17:22:47
From: Henry
Subject: Re: Pigs on the links
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sfb wrote:
> May you never grow old and frail.
>
> "Stratman" <nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:452d1920$0$8740$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>> Golf is essentially a walking game. If you want to drive for pleasure take
>> up motor racing.
>>
>> Ban carts and watch the five hour round vanish.
>>
>
>
Or have arthritis and a hip replacement ...
Henry
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Date: 11 Oct 2006 11:29:03
From: Lloyd Parsons
Subject: Re: Pigs on the links
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In article <452d1920$0$8740$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net >,
"Stratman" <nospam@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Golf is essentially a walking game. If you want to drive for pleasure take
> up motor racing.
>
> Ban carts and watch the five hour round vanish.
Why would you think that?
It isn't walking or carts that make for slow rounds, it is the people
walking or riding that cause it. Slow golfers are slow golfers, period!
It isn't a function of their ability to walk or ride or even how they
play, it is just a function of being SLOW!
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Date: 11 Oct 2006 08:48:41
From: oconnell@slr.orl.lmco.com
Subject: Re: Pigs on the links
|
warren montgomery wrote:
> I don't understand what goes on in the heads of some folks,
False assumption #1. People are thinking.
> Why is it that in spite of plenty
> of warnings to keep carts away from tees and greens and use the paths in
> those areas that people insist on driving into areas where there's no way
> you could imagine anyone taking a cart.
False assumption #2. It takes imagination to drive into
stupid places.
> The 11th hole on my course is a par
> 3 with two tees, a lower tee where the "mens" tees usually are and an
> elevated and somewhat forward tee where the shorter tees usually are. The
> cart path runs to the left of the mens tees with the elevated tee on the
> right. A couple of weeks ago they started putting all the kers on the
> elevated tee to let the other one recover a bit from aeration. Now there is
> a well developed set of ruts and trampled grasses in the 10 foot wide
> slanting space between the two tees! I see people all the time take carts
> around behind greens that have a steep drop off into a water hazard behind
> them, or between bunkers and greens where they have to drive on the apron to
> avoid the sand. One hole on our course has a tee shot over 16 yards of wild
> land that is sometimes shy. The cart path runs around it to the fairway.
> For years there's been a narrow path through it used by people walking (it
> cuts off about 50 yards probably over walking the path). Starting 2-3 years
> ago people insisted on driving carts through this area, even though at least
> a couple have gotten them mired in there. The course super has tried
> sticking up ropes and even tried to block it with a discarded cement tee
> ker, but the pigs just cut a new set of ruts around it. Now the area is
> a muddy hog wallow
To some extent you are merely describing "tunnel vision". These
folks
know to where they are headed, and aren't really watching what is
between
them and their goal.
> What does it take to get people to stop doing this? Barbed wire fences?
> Land mines?
You'd be surprised the extent that those probably wouldn't work.
> Actually I have a great idea of electronic enforcement of "no carts"
> zones -- program the forbidden areas into the GPS on board. First time you
> venture into one you get a warning to get out. Stay there or go in again
> and it puts a little fine on your bill. Go in again and the fine gets
> bigger. Never happen of course until players make a point of complaining
> about the damage caused by people driving carts into the wrong places.
I actually play at a place that will ask you to move your cart if
you are in
certain "forbidden zones". They haven't actually gone so far as to do
anything
about it. I spent the day with a driver that spent half his time in
them.
The end result is that it is carts. People aren't "responsible"
enough
to use them. It's a big reason why spikes got banned. If they just
made everyone walk, it would solve alot of these problems. They could
try to go to some sort of Seway sized individual vehicle, but that
would
probably only increase the ability of folks to drive into dumb areas.
Caddies probably would help too, but those aren't coming back anytime
too soon. More shalls are another potential solution that won't get
used. I've often envisioned a system by which your cart is on a rail,
and you get out and walk your bag back and forth to your ball. Besides
the expense, I suspect such a system also wouldn't be all that popular.
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Date: 17 Oct 2006 01:08:20
From: Peter Strauss
Subject: Re: Pigs on the links
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On 11 Oct 2006 08:48:41 -0700, "oconnell@slr.orl.lmco.com"
<oconnell@slr.orl.lmco.com > wrote:
> The end result is that it is carts. People aren't "responsible"
> enough
> to use them. It's a big reason why spikes got banned. If they just
> made everyone walk, it would solve alot of these problems. They could
> try to go to some sort of Seway sized individual vehicle, but that
> would
> probably only increase the ability of folks to drive into dumb areas.
> Caddies probably would help too, but those aren't coming back anytime
> too soon. More shalls are another potential solution that won't get
> used. I've often envisioned a system by which your cart is on a rail,
> and you get out and walk your bag back and forth to your ball. Besides
> the expense, I suspect such a system also wouldn't be all that popular.
On at least one course at which I play -- Poppy Ridge, Livermore, CA
(and officiate in Association tournaments) -- the carts, which are
electric, will not function if they go where they're not wanted. I'm
not sure how this is accomplished; my guess is that there are some
buried thingummies that shut the carts off when they stray, but
regardless, it's very effective. The system can be bypassed if one
knows the shall-mode code for the gps, and apparently that's a
fairly well-kept secret. I know it, since as a Rules Official I might
well have to take an extreme shortcut from one hole to another,
whereas golfers couldn't do that; but I've never seen a golfer go
where he's not supposed to go on that course. (I lie: t'other day I
did see a cart mired in a creeklet between two holes; perhaps that's
not been 'wired' [yet] to keep the unwary or foolish out of there.
And/or it might've been a shall, but I doubt that.)
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Date: 16 Oct 2006 22:29:54
From: warren montgomery
Subject: Re: Pigs on the links
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>
> On at least one course at which I play -- Poppy Ridge, Livermore, CA
> (and officiate in Association tournaments) -- the carts, which are
> electric, will not function if they go where they're not wanted. I'm
> not sure how this is accomplished; my guess is that there are some
> buried thingummies that shut the carts off when they stray, but
> regardless, it's very effective. The system can be bypassed if one
> knows the shall-mode code for the gps, and apparently that's a
> fairly well-kept secret. I know it, since as a Rules Official I might
> well have to take an extreme shortcut from one hole to another,
> whereas golfers couldn't do that; but I've never seen a golfer go
> where he's not supposed to go on that course. (I lie: t'other day I
> did see a cart mired in a creeklet between two holes; perhaps that's
> not been 'wired' [yet] to keep the unwary or foolish out of there.
> And/or it might've been a shall, but I doubt that.)
>
Hmm, Carla and I played there last spring and as I recall the GPS wasn't
working real well on those carts. Probably just a temporary glitch (it was
a nasty cold windy day in ch)
--
Warren Montgomery (wamontgomery@att.net)
http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery
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Date: 11 Oct 2006 07:29:02
From: zumafan
Subject: Re: Pigs on the links
|
warren montgomery wrote:
> I don't understand what goes on in the heads of some folks, especially when
> it comes to where they drive their carts. Why is it that in spite of plenty
> of warnings to keep carts away from tees and greens and use the paths in
> those areas that people insist on driving into areas where there's no way
> you could imagine anyone taking a cart.
I blame Clinton.
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