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Date: 14 Apr 2007 09:37:20
From: Ben.
Subject: On moving back west (NGC)
I've often been asked: tornadoes or earthquakes? Fuck tornadoes -
you southerners can have 'em. Gimme a Loma Prieta once, maybe twice
in my lifetime, and I'll take my chances. I'll take the 3-4.5's all
day long, too. Tornadoes, OTOH, are likely to "suck the paint off
your house and give your family a permanent orange afro." Hardly an
easy escape in one of these monsters.





 
Date: 25 Apr 2007 22:25:11
From: Dene
Subject: Re: On moving back west (NGC)
On Apr 24, 8:56 pm, "\"R&B\"" <noneofyourbusin...@all.com > wrote:
> "Dene" <gdst...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1176575338.023940.170350@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 14, 10:20 am, "Ben." <komb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On Apr 14, 11:50 am, John van der Pflum <nowhammymyspa...@bite.org>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> > On 14 Apr 2007 09:37:20 -0700, "Ben." <komb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> > >I've often been asked: tornadoes or earthquakes? Fuck tornadoes -
> >> > >you southerners can have 'em. Gimme a Loma Prieta once, maybe twice
> >> > >in my lifetime, and I'll take my chances. I'll take the 3-4.5's all
> >> > >day long, too. Tornadoes, OTOH, are likely to "suck the paint off
> >> > >your house and give your family a permanent orange afro." Hardly an
> >> > >easy escape in one of these monsters.
>
> >> > You know, there are places that don't have earthquakes or tornados and
> >> > don't have a cost of living where a 3 bedroom house will cost you
> >> > $700,000. Just something to consider before you move.
>
> >> Holy shit! Where is that place, 'cause a 3/2 where I'm moving is
> >> $800k!
>
> > Portland, Oregon. No earthquakes, humidity, or tornadoes. My 3/2
> > rental ranch is 230k with lots of amenities. Our 4/3 current home in
> > Washington was bought for 340k with a magnificent view of the Columbia
> > River, Portland (30 miles away), etc. I cannot imagine paying 800k
> > for a ranch.
>
> > -Greg
>
> And only 200 days of rain each year.
>
> No wonder the suicide rate is among the highest in the nation.
>
> Randy- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Personally, I prefer rain to oppressive humidity.

-Greg



  
Date: 27 Apr 2007 18:00:37
From: \R&B\
Subject: Re: On moving back west (NGC)
"Dene" <gdstrue@aol.com > wrote in message
news:1177565111.830787.222620@r35g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 24, 8:56 pm, "\"R&B\"" <noneofyourbusin...@all.com> wrote:
>> "Dene" <gdst...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1176575338.023940.170350@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Apr 14, 10:20 am, "Ben." <komb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> On Apr 14, 11:50 am, John van der Pflum <nowhammymyspa...@bite.org>
>> >> wrote:
>>
>> >> > On 14 Apr 2007 09:37:20 -0700, "Ben." <komb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> > >I've often been asked: tornadoes or earthquakes? Fuck tornadoes -
>> >> > >you southerners can have 'em. Gimme a Loma Prieta once, maybe
>> >> > >twice
>> >> > >in my lifetime, and I'll take my chances. I'll take the 3-4.5's
>> >> > >all
>> >> > >day long, too. Tornadoes, OTOH, are likely to "suck the paint off
>> >> > >your house and give your family a permanent orange afro." Hardly
>> >> > >an
>> >> > >easy escape in one of these monsters.
>>
>> >> > You know, there are places that don't have earthquakes or tornados
>> >> > and
>> >> > don't have a cost of living where a 3 bedroom house will cost you
>> >> > $700,000. Just something to consider before you move.
>>
>> >> Holy shit! Where is that place, 'cause a 3/2 where I'm moving is
>> >> $800k!
>>
>> > Portland, Oregon. No earthquakes, humidity, or tornadoes. My 3/2
>> > rental ranch is 230k with lots of amenities. Our 4/3 current home in
>> > Washington was bought for 340k with a magnificent view of the Columbia
>> > River, Portland (30 miles away), etc. I cannot imagine paying 800k
>> > for a ranch.
>>
>> > -Greg
>>
>> And only 200 days of rain each year.
>>
>> No wonder the suicide rate is among the highest in the nation.
>>
>> Randy- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Personally, I prefer rain to oppressive humidity.
>
> -Greg


Uhhhh......Dene......rain *IS* oppressive humidity.

Randy




 
Date: 18 Apr 2007 18:06:32
From: Dene
Subject: Re: On moving back west (NGC)
On Apr 18, 4:46 pm, larry <l...@delmardata.com > wrote:
> On 16 Apr 2007 20:23:02 -0700, Dene <gdst...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >I understand your point about the climate. San Diego is wonderful in
> >that regard....but you got a buttload of people down there
>
> Many are leaving, thank goodness. Priced out of here, but others are
> pouring in. Hopefully bringing big bucks. Southern California is
> expensive. This really is pretty much "as good as it gets" on this
> Earth. John Wayne was right. He could have lived anywhere on Earth
> and he chose about 50 miles North of here, house on the water on
> Balboa Island of Newport Beach. This beats Florida about every way 70
> degreees with 32% humidity can beat 90 degrees and 90% humidity.
>
> Larry

Three weeks ago, I stayed with a friend on Coronado Island. They just
bought a dated 2 bd./2k sq. foot condo with a sliver view of the San
Diego bay for over 2 million. It will require thousands more in
remodeling, then they will keep it or flip it.

I couldn't help but think how much view properties and houses I could
buy for 2 million, in several states.

I can understand why people are moving out but why would they be
moving in at those prices. Why not cross the border and live in
Mexico like kings for 250k? Live in the north during the summer.
Tucson....500k buys a lot of house and beautiful vistas. Same with
Georgia on a golf course or just north of Atlanta in the woods. Just
skip out of there during the summer.

-Greg




  
Date: 19 Apr 2007 10:35:42
From: larry
Subject: Re: On moving back west (NGC)
On 18 Apr 2007 18:06:32 -0700, Dene <gdstrue@aol.com > wrote:

>On Apr 18, 4:46 pm, larry <l...@delmardata.com> wrote:
>> On 16 Apr 2007 20:23:02 -0700, Dene <gdst...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> >I understand your point about the climate. San Diego is wonderful in
>> >that regard....but you got a buttload of people down there
>>
>> Many are leaving, thank goodness. Priced out of here, but others are
>> pouring in. Hopefully bringing big bucks. Southern California is
>> expensive. This really is pretty much "as good as it gets" on this
>> Earth. John Wayne was right. He could have lived anywhere on Earth
>> and he chose about 50 miles North of here, house on the water on
>> Balboa Island of Newport Beach. This beats Florida about every way 70
>> degreees with 32% humidity can beat 90 degrees and 90% humidity.
>>
>> Larry
>
>Three weeks ago, I stayed with a friend on Coronado Island. They just
>bought a dated 2 bd./2k sq. foot condo with a sliver view of the San
>Diego bay for over 2 million. It will require thousands more in
>remodeling, then they will keep it or flip it.
>
>I couldn't help but think how much view properties and houses I could
>buy for 2 million, in several states.
>
>I can understand why people are moving out but why would they be
>moving in at those prices. Why not cross the border and live in
>Mexico like kings for 250k? Live in the north during the summer.
>Tucson....500k buys a lot of house and beautiful vistas. Same with
>Georgia on a golf course or just north of Atlanta in the woods. Just
>skip out of there during the summer.
>
>-Greg

There are many reasons-- you experienced our weather, albeit not our
best in the early Spring. Our best is from now to December, it is
still shorts and tee-shirt picnic weather at Thanksgiving. We have
no wind, no humidity, no bugs, no snakes, and essentially no crime (if
you stay out of the ghetto). Our streets are safe.

That condo will become more valuable--espeically if they remodel it.
Southern California appreciates in value even while the remainder of
the US goes down. That because of people like your friends, coming
here and investing in SD area real estate.

Bottom line: They want to live here no matter what it costs.

Larry


 
Date: 16 Apr 2007 20:23:02
From: Dene
Subject: Re: On moving back west (NGC)
On Apr 16, 2:15 pm, larry <l...@delmardata.com > wrote:
> On 16 Apr 2007 13:41:29 -0700, "Dene" <gdst...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Apr 16, 11:24 am, larry <l...@delmardata.com> wrote:
> >> On 14 Apr 2007 11:28:58 -0700, "Dene" <gdst...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >> >On Apr 14, 10:20 am, "Ben." <komb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >> On Apr 14, 11:50 am, John van der Pflum <nowhammymyspa...@bite.org>
> >> >> wrote:
>
> >> >> > On 14 Apr 2007 09:37:20 -0700, "Ben." <komb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> > >I've often been asked: tornadoes or earthquakes? Fuck tornadoes -
> >> >> > >you southerners can have 'em. Gimme a Loma Prieta once, maybe twice
> >> >> > >in my lifetime, and I'll take my chances. I'll take the 3-4.5's all
> >> >> > >day long, too. Tornadoes, OTOH, are likely to "suck the paint off
> >> >> > >your house and give your family a permanent orange afro." Hardly an
> >> >> > >easy escape in one of these monsters.
>
> >> >> > You know, there are places that don't have earthquakes or tornados and
> >> >> > don't have a cost of living where a 3 bedroom house will cost you
> >> >> > $700,000. Just something to consider before you move.
>
> >> >> Holy shit! Where is that place, 'cause a 3/2 where I'm moving is
> >> >> $800k!
>
> >> >Portland, Oregon. No earthquakes, humidity, or tornadoes. My 3/2
> >> >rental ranch is 230k with lots of amenities. Our 4/3 current home in
> >> >Washington was bought for 340k with a magnificent view of the Columbia
> >> >River, Portland (30 miles away), etc. I cannot imagine paying 800k
> >> >for a ranch.
>
> >> The Oregon coast is a swamp from November to May-- It rained 30
> >> inches there this season, basically all day every day. Their HIGH
> >> temperature is 50 most days--and colder many days-- with rain or sleet
> >> coming in sideways. They close most golf courses because they are
> >> unplayably wet-- Why on Earth would anyone in their right mind want
> >> to live there? Those with money close their homes and bail out to
> >> points South all Winter.
>
> >> Property values will either remain level or go down. NOT a good
> >> investment. Invest where the sun shines-- Phoenix, Tucson, any
> >> little town in S. California. Life is too short to spend days
> >> watching it rain.
>
> >> Larry- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> >Who said anything about the Oregon coast? I agree...tis a swamp.
> >But....I own a house near Tucson and a couple of up here in the NW.
> >Total value....860k. Original purchase....590k.
>
> >A bay area ranch is 800k. For the price difference, one could often
> >fly to points south and escape the rain. We do....and write it off,
> >since we're "inspecting" our rental property.
>
> You could add a room to your home for $800k around here (if you kept
> it modest).
>
> But perfect weather is always expensive. Who cares? How many more
> days will you have to get outside and enjoy your life?
>
> Possibly ver few!!! Out of the blue a good friend, neighbor and
> golfing buddy, my age, retired Marine Colonel, just had a major
> stroke-- and will likely be sitting in a wheelchair for the
> duration... his whole right side is likely permanently paralyzed-- He
> can only mumble. Someone has to help him go to the john. He has a
> new Corvette and a new Harley gathering dust in his garage.
>
> Larry- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I understand your point about the climate. San Diego is wonderful in
that regard....but you got a buttload of people down there and no
place to boat, aside from the boring ocean. I know.....I bought a boat
in Oceanside and moved it up here. 10 mins. on the rolly-polly ocean
was plenty for me.

Also, snowskiing sucks there.....and your golf is outrageously
expensive.

I'd take a 50 degree day on the water and no people vs. 75 degrees and
loads of people, yachts, and wakes. Same is true of the golf course.
A 4 season climate is perfect, especially if one is able to escape the
winter from time to time.
In about six years, I intend to escape winter for good. Fall and
spring in Az. Winter in S.C./Georgia, and summer in the PNW.

-Greg



  
Date: 18 Apr 2007 16:46:18
From: larry
Subject: Re: On moving back west (NGC)
On 16 Apr 2007 20:23:02 -0700, Dene <gdstrue@aol.com > wrote:

>I understand your point about the climate. San Diego is wonderful in
>that regard....but you got a buttload of people down there

Many are leaving, thank goodness. Priced out of here, but others are
pouring in. Hopefully bringing big bucks. Southern California is
expensive. This really is pretty much "as good as it gets" on this
Earth. John Wayne was right. He could have lived anywhere on Earth
and he chose about 50 miles North of here, house on the water on
Balboa Island of Newport Beach. This beats Florida about every way 70
degreees with 32% humidity can beat 90 degrees and 90% humidity.

Larry


 
Date: 16 Apr 2007 13:41:29
From: Dene
Subject: Re: On moving back west (NGC)
On Apr 16, 11:24 am, larry <l...@delmardata.com > wrote:
> On 14 Apr 2007 11:28:58 -0700, "Dene" <gdst...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Apr 14, 10:20 am, "Ben." <komb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On Apr 14, 11:50 am, John van der Pflum <nowhammymyspa...@bite.org>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> > On 14 Apr 2007 09:37:20 -0700, "Ben." <komb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> > >I've often been asked: tornadoes or earthquakes? Fuck tornadoes -
> >> > >you southerners can have 'em. Gimme a Loma Prieta once, maybe twice
> >> > >in my lifetime, and I'll take my chances. I'll take the 3-4.5's all
> >> > >day long, too. Tornadoes, OTOH, are likely to "suck the paint off
> >> > >your house and give your family a permanent orange afro." Hardly an
> >> > >easy escape in one of these monsters.
>
> >> > You know, there are places that don't have earthquakes or tornados and
> >> > don't have a cost of living where a 3 bedroom house will cost you
> >> > $700,000. Just something to consider before you move.
>
> >> Holy shit! Where is that place, 'cause a 3/2 where I'm moving is
> >> $800k!
>
> >Portland, Oregon. No earthquakes, humidity, or tornadoes. My 3/2
> >rental ranch is 230k with lots of amenities. Our 4/3 current home in
> >Washington was bought for 340k with a magnificent view of the Columbia
> >River, Portland (30 miles away), etc. I cannot imagine paying 800k
> >for a ranch.
>
> The Oregon coast is a swamp from November to May-- It rained 30
> inches there this season, basically all day every day. Their HIGH
> temperature is 50 most days--and colder many days-- with rain or sleet
> coming in sideways. They close most golf courses because they are
> unplayably wet-- Why on Earth would anyone in their right mind want
> to live there? Those with money close their homes and bail out to
> points South all Winter.
>
> Property values will either remain level or go down. NOT a good
> investment. Invest where the sun shines-- Phoenix, Tucson, any
> little town in S. California. Life is too short to spend days
> watching it rain.
>
> Larry- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Who said anything about the Oregon coast? I agree...tis a swamp.
But....I own a house near Tucson and a couple of up here in the NW.
Total value....860k. Original purchase....590k.

A bay area ranch is 800k. For the price difference, one could often
fly to points south and escape the rain. We do....and write it off,
since we're "inspecting" our rental property.



  
Date: 16 Apr 2007 14:15:07
From: larry
Subject: Re: On moving back west (NGC)
On 16 Apr 2007 13:41:29 -0700, "Dene" <gdstrue@aol.com > wrote:

>On Apr 16, 11:24 am, larry <l...@delmardata.com> wrote:
>> On 14 Apr 2007 11:28:58 -0700, "Dene" <gdst...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Apr 14, 10:20 am, "Ben." <komb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> On Apr 14, 11:50 am, John van der Pflum <nowhammymyspa...@bite.org>
>> >> wrote:
>>
>> >> > On 14 Apr 2007 09:37:20 -0700, "Ben." <komb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> > >I've often been asked: tornadoes or earthquakes? Fuck tornadoes -
>> >> > >you southerners can have 'em. Gimme a Loma Prieta once, maybe twice
>> >> > >in my lifetime, and I'll take my chances. I'll take the 3-4.5's all
>> >> > >day long, too. Tornadoes, OTOH, are likely to "suck the paint off
>> >> > >your house and give your family a permanent orange afro." Hardly an
>> >> > >easy escape in one of these monsters.
>>
>> >> > You know, there are places that don't have earthquakes or tornados and
>> >> > don't have a cost of living where a 3 bedroom house will cost you
>> >> > $700,000. Just something to consider before you move.
>>
>> >> Holy shit! Where is that place, 'cause a 3/2 where I'm moving is
>> >> $800k!
>>
>> >Portland, Oregon. No earthquakes, humidity, or tornadoes. My 3/2
>> >rental ranch is 230k with lots of amenities. Our 4/3 current home in
>> >Washington was bought for 340k with a magnificent view of the Columbia
>> >River, Portland (30 miles away), etc. I cannot imagine paying 800k
>> >for a ranch.
>>
>> The Oregon coast is a swamp from November to May-- It rained 30
>> inches there this season, basically all day every day. Their HIGH
>> temperature is 50 most days--and colder many days-- with rain or sleet
>> coming in sideways. They close most golf courses because they are
>> unplayably wet-- Why on Earth would anyone in their right mind want
>> to live there? Those with money close their homes and bail out to
>> points South all Winter.
>>
>> Property values will either remain level or go down. NOT a good
>> investment. Invest where the sun shines-- Phoenix, Tucson, any
>> little town in S. California. Life is too short to spend days
>> watching it rain.
>>
>> Larry- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>Who said anything about the Oregon coast? I agree...tis a swamp.
>But....I own a house near Tucson and a couple of up here in the NW.
>Total value....860k. Original purchase....590k.
>
>A bay area ranch is 800k. For the price difference, one could often
>fly to points south and escape the rain. We do....and write it off,
>since we're "inspecting" our rental property.

You could add a room to your home for $800k around here (if you kept
it modest).

But perfect weather is always expensive. Who cares? How many more
days will you have to get outside and enjoy your life?

Possibly ver few!!! Out of the blue a good friend, neighbor and
golfing buddy, my age, retired Marine Colonel, just had a major
stroke-- and will likely be sitting in a wheelchair for the
duration... his whole right side is likely permanently paralyzed-- He
can only mumble. Someone has to help him go to the john. He has a
new Corvette and a new Harley gathering dust in his garage.

Larry


 
Date: 16 Apr 2007 10:43:33
From: Dene
Subject: Re: On moving back west (NGC)
On Apr 16, 10:25 am, "Bill H." <bill...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Apr 14, 7:37 pm, "Dene" <gdst...@aol.com> wrote:

>
> > Then how about northern, NoCal...like Redding on north. Gorgeous
> > country there and a dryer/moderate climate compared to western Oregon/
> > Wash.
>
> > -Greg
>
> Since when is Redding moderate? I think highs in the summer are often
> above 100 degrees F, no?

True....but that's where Lake Shasta comes into play. Actually, I'd
live north of there, in the mountains/woods that Ben fears.

-Greg




 
Date: 16 Apr 2007 10:25:20
From: Bill H.
Subject: Re: On moving back west (NGC)
On Apr 14, 7:37 pm, "Dene" <gdst...@aol.com > wrote:
> On Apr 14, 3:37 pm, "Ben." <komb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Apr 14, 5:34 pm, "warren montgomery"
>
> > <wamontgom...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> > > If Tornados vs Earthquakes is the real driver here...<snip>
>
> > No, not really, just a talking point. The real driver? Alabama v.
> > California. I'll take (Northern) California. It's a state of mind.
>
> Then how about northern, NoCal...like Redding on north. Gorgeous
> country there and a dryer/moderate climate compared to western Oregon/
> Wash.
>
> -Greg

Since when is Redding moderate? I think highs in the summer are often
above 100 degrees F, no?



 
Date: 15 Apr 2007 12:46:11
From: annika1980
Subject: Re: On moving back west (NGC)
On Apr 15, 11:37 am, "retiredusarmy" <retiredusa...@hotmail.com >
wrote:
>
> Dang it Annika 1980. I told you we should not have taken Ben snipe
> hunting. The boy spent three days and nights looking for that snipe.-

At least I didn't take him up to the lake to watch the submarine
races.




 
Date: 15 Apr 2007 12:41:43
From:
Subject: Re: On moving back west (NGC)
On 14 Apr 2007 09:37:20 -0700, "Ben." <kombi45@yahoo.com > wrote:

>I've often been asked: tornadoes or earthquakes? Fuck tornadoes -
>you southerners can have 'em. Gimme a Loma Prieta once, maybe twice
>in my lifetime, and I'll take my chances. I'll take the 3-4.5's all
>day long, too. Tornadoes, OTOH, are likely to "suck the paint off
>your house and give your family a permanent orange afro." Hardly an
>easy escape in one of these monsters.


Perhaps you should move outta the trailer park?




  
Date: 15 Apr 2007 18:15:52
From: Robert Hamilton
Subject: Re: On moving back west (NGC)


annika1980@aol.com wrote:

> On 14 Apr 2007 09:37:20 -0700, "Ben." <kombi45@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >I've often been asked: tornadoes or earthquakes? Fuck tornadoes -
> >you southerners can have 'em. Gimme a Loma Prieta once, maybe twice
> >in my lifetime, and I'll take my chances. I'll take the 3-4.5's all
> >day long, too. Tornadoes, OTOH, are likely to "suck the paint off
> >your house and give your family a permanent orange afro." Hardly an
> >easy escape in one of these monsters.
>
> Perhaps you should move outta the trailer park?

That was all he can/could afford in CA and he didn't want a lifestyle
change moving to Alabama.




 
Date: 14 Apr 2007 20:41:18
From: Ben.
Subject: Re: On moving back west (NGC)
On Apr 14, 9:37 pm, "Dene" <gdst...@aol.com > wrote:
> On Apr 14, 3:37 pm, "Ben." <komb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Apr 14, 5:34 pm, "warren montgomery"
>
> > <wamontgom...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> > > If Tornados vs Earthquakes is the real driver here...<snip>
>
> > No, not really, just a talking point. The real driver? Alabama v.
> > California. I'll take (Northern) California. It's a state of mind.
>
> Then how about northern, NoCal...like Redding on north. Gorgeous
> country there and a dryer/moderate climate compared to western Oregon/
> Wash.

Take it easy. We're moving back to San Jose! I've got no business in
the woods...



  
Date: 16 Apr 2007 08:35:53
From: warren montgomery
Subject: Re: On moving back west (NGC)
>>
>> > No, not really, just a talking point. The real driver? Alabama v.
>> > California. I'll take (Northern) California. It's a state of mind.
>>
>> Then how about northern, NoCal...like Redding on north. Gorgeous
>> country there and a dryer/moderate climate compared to western Oregon/
>> Wash.
>
> Take it easy. We're moving back to San Jose! I've got no business in
> the woods...
>
Congratulations on winning the lottery! (I like NoCal, I visit fairly
regularly, but buying a house there would wipe out my retirement savings.)

--
Warren Montgomery (wamontgomery@att.net)
http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery




  
Date: 15 Apr 2007 10:37:33
From: retiredusarmy
Subject: Re: On moving back west (NGC)

"Ben." <kombi45@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1176608478.285552.290530@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 14, 9:37 pm, "Dene" <gdst...@aol.com> wrote:
>> On Apr 14, 3:37 pm, "Ben." <komb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Apr 14, 5:34 pm, "warren montgomery"
>>
>> > <wamontgom...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>> > > If Tornados vs Earthquakes is the real driver here...<snip>
>>
>> > No, not really, just a talking point. The real driver? Alabama v.
>> > California. I'll take (Northern) California. It's a state of mind.
>>
>> Then how about northern, NoCal...like Redding on north. Gorgeous
>> country there and a dryer/moderate climate compared to western Oregon/
>> Wash.
>
> Take it easy. We're moving back to San Jose! I've got no business in
> the woods...
>

Dang it Annika 1980. I told you we should not have taken Ben snipe
hunting. The boy spent three days and nights looking for that snipe.




 
Date: 14 Apr 2007 19:37:41
From: Dene
Subject: Re: On moving back west (NGC)
On Apr 14, 3:37 pm, "Ben." <komb...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Apr 14, 5:34 pm, "warren montgomery"
>
> <wamontgom...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> > If Tornados vs Earthquakes is the real driver here...<snip>
>
> No, not really, just a talking point. The real driver? Alabama v.
> California. I'll take (Northern) California. It's a state of mind.

Then how about northern, NoCal...like Redding on north. Gorgeous
country there and a dryer/moderate climate compared to western Oregon/
Wash.

-Greg



 
Date: 14 Apr 2007 15:45:41
From: BigPurdueFan
Subject: Re: On moving back west (NGC)
On Apr 14, 2:19 pm, BAR <scre...@you.com > wrote:
> John van der Pflum wrote:
>
> > On 14 Apr 2007 09:37:20 -0700, "Ben." <komb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> I've often been asked: tornadoes or earthquakes? Fuck tornadoes -
> >> you southerners can have 'em. Gimme a Loma Prieta once, maybe twice
> >> in my lifetime, and I'll take my chances. I'll take the 3-4.5's all
> >> day long, too. Tornadoes, OTOH, are likely to "suck the paint off
> >> your house and give your family a permanent orange afro." Hardly an
> >> easy escape in one of these monsters.
>
> > You know, there are places that don't have earthquakes or tornados and
> > don't have a cost of living where a 3 bedroom house will cost you
> > $700,000. Just something to consider before you move.
>
> Bet you didn't know that through the Ohio valley extending south to the
> Gulf of Mexico there are more earthquakes each month than there are
> earthquakes in all of California in one year.

Yeah, but most of those a very, very minor earthquakes. Most caused by
my visits to the restroom after eating Mexican.



  
Date: 14 Apr 2007 21:33:54
From: John van der Pflum
Subject: Re: On moving back west (NGC)
On 14 Apr 2007 15:45:41 -0700, "BigPurdueFan" <bigpufan@aol.com >
wrote:

>On Apr 14, 2:19 pm, BAR <scre...@you.com> wrote:
>> John van der Pflum wrote:
>>
>> > On 14 Apr 2007 09:37:20 -0700, "Ben." <komb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> I've often been asked: tornadoes or earthquakes? Fuck tornadoes -
>> >> you southerners can have 'em. Gimme a Loma Prieta once, maybe twice
>> >> in my lifetime, and I'll take my chances. I'll take the 3-4.5's all
>> >> day long, too. Tornadoes, OTOH, are likely to "suck the paint off
>> >> your house and give your family a permanent orange afro." Hardly an
>> >> easy escape in one of these monsters.
>>
>> > You know, there are places that don't have earthquakes or tornados and
>> > don't have a cost of living where a 3 bedroom house will cost you
>> > $700,000. Just something to consider before you move.
>>
>> Bet you didn't know that through the Ohio valley extending south to the
>> Gulf of Mexico there are more earthquakes each month than there are
>> earthquakes in all of California in one year.
>
>Yeah, but most of those a very, very minor earthquakes. Most caused by
>my visits to the restroom after eating Mexican.

I thought Annika was to blame.
--

jvdp
RSG Cincinnati July 13-15, 2007
http://www.rsgcincinnati.com


 
Date: 14 Apr 2007 15:37:57
From: Ben.
Subject: Re: On moving back west (NGC)
On Apr 14, 5:34 pm, "warren montgomery"
<wamontgom...@worldnet.att.net > wrote:

> If Tornados vs Earthquakes is the real driver here...<snip>

No, not really, just a talking point. The real driver? Alabama v.
California. I'll take (Northern) California. It's a state of mind.



 
Date: 14 Apr 2007 17:34:47
From: warren montgomery
Subject: Re: On moving back west (NGC)
> I've often been asked: tornadoes or earthquakes? Fuck tornadoes -
> you southerners can have 'em. Gimme a Loma Prieta once, maybe twice
> in my lifetime, and I'll take my chances. I'll take the 3-4.5's all
> day long, too. Tornadoes, OTOH, are likely to "suck the paint off
> your house and give your family a permanent orange afro." Hardly an
> easy escape in one of these monsters.
>
If Tornados vs Earthquakes is the real driver here it's worth pointing out
that when a Tornado hits, only a few houses in one town get it, so lots of
help is available to recover. When the big one hits you will have rubble
for 100 miles. Everyone needs everything, no roads, no power. Ugh. Of
course I've never been one to worry too much about low probability events.
More important criteria for me include can I afford a house, how much mone
does the tax man rob me of, how easy is it to get on a decent golf course,
what does it cost, and can I walk.
--
Warren Montgomery (wamontgomery@att.net)
http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery




 
Date: 14 Apr 2007 11:34:06
From: Ben.
Subject: Re: On moving back west (NGC)
On Apr 14, 1:29 pm, Chris Bellomy <p...@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid > wrote:
> Ben. <komb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Apr 14, 12:00 pm, Chris Bellomy <p...@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid> wrote:
>
> >> Ben. <komb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> > I've often been asked: tornadoes or earthquakes? Fuck tornadoes -
> >> > you southerners can have 'em.
>
> >> Thanks. Tornadoes are nothing that a good cellar won't solve.
>
> > Reminds me of the episode of The Simpsons when they built the bomb
> > shelter in their backyard, and everyone in the town fit into it except
> > for, I think it was, Homer. Anyway, tornadoes will destroy your
> > house, your cars, your real property, you, your loved ones,
> > everything, no matter how good a cellar you have.
>
> So will earthquakes if you're in the wrong place at the wrong time.
> The chances of each are slim no matter where you live.

This is all theoretical conjecture. Statistically you are absolutely
correct. However, I have been a collateral victim of a tornado. I've
never sustained any damage, real or otherwise, from an earthquake.
And I've ben through a few of both.



  
Date: 14 Apr 2007 18:50:46
From: Chris Bellomy
Subject: Re: On moving back west (NGC)
Ben. <kombi45@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Apr 14, 1:29 pm, Chris Bellomy <p...@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid> wrote:
>> Ben. <komb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > On Apr 14, 12:00 pm, Chris Bellomy <p...@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> >> Ben. <komb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> > I've often been asked: tornadoes or earthquakes? Fuck tornadoes -
>> >> > you southerners can have 'em.
>>
>> >> Thanks. Tornadoes are nothing that a good cellar won't solve.
>>
>> > Reminds me of the episode of The Simpsons when they built the bomb
>> > shelter in their backyard, and everyone in the town fit into it except
>> > for, I think it was, Homer. Anyway, tornadoes will destroy your
>> > house, your cars, your real property, you, your loved ones,
>> > everything, no matter how good a cellar you have.
>>
>> So will earthquakes if you're in the wrong place at the wrong time.
>> The chances of each are slim no matter where you live.
>
> This is all theoretical conjecture. Statistically you are absolutely
> correct. However, I have been a collateral victim of a tornado. I've
> never sustained any damage, real or otherwise, from an earthquake.
> And I've ben through a few of both.

I've ridden through two tornadoes in cars. Not much fun but I came
away unhurt. (Can't say the same for the cars.)

I've been in only one earthquake, and I was here in Texas of all
places for that. Only reason I knew something was happening was
because I was on the 4th floor of the library where I worked at
the time. When the stacks started rattling for no apparent reason,
I knew something was up.

--
Chris Bellomy
C-List Charter Member
http://clist.org/


 
Date: 14 Apr 2007 11:28:58
From: Dene
Subject: Re: On moving back west (NGC)
On Apr 14, 10:20 am, "Ben." <komb...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Apr 14, 11:50 am, John van der Pflum <nowhammymyspa...@bite.org>
> wrote:
>
> > On 14 Apr 2007 09:37:20 -0700, "Ben." <komb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > >I've often been asked: tornadoes or earthquakes? Fuck tornadoes -
> > >you southerners can have 'em. Gimme a Loma Prieta once, maybe twice
> > >in my lifetime, and I'll take my chances. I'll take the 3-4.5's all
> > >day long, too. Tornadoes, OTOH, are likely to "suck the paint off
> > >your house and give your family a permanent orange afro." Hardly an
> > >easy escape in one of these monsters.
>
> > You know, there are places that don't have earthquakes or tornados and
> > don't have a cost of living where a 3 bedroom house will cost you
> > $700,000. Just something to consider before you move.
>
> Holy shit! Where is that place, 'cause a 3/2 where I'm moving is
> $800k!

Portland, Oregon. No earthquakes, humidity, or tornadoes. My 3/2
rental ranch is 230k with lots of amenities. Our 4/3 current home in
Washington was bought for 340k with a magnificent view of the Columbia
River, Portland (30 miles away), etc. I cannot imagine paying 800k
for a ranch.

-Greg



  
Date: 24 Apr 2007 23:56:16
From: \R&B\
Subject: Re: On moving back west (NGC)
"Dene" <gdstrue@aol.com > wrote in message
news:1176575338.023940.170350@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 14, 10:20 am, "Ben." <komb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Apr 14, 11:50 am, John van der Pflum <nowhammymyspa...@bite.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > On 14 Apr 2007 09:37:20 -0700, "Ben." <komb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> > >I've often been asked: tornadoes or earthquakes? Fuck tornadoes -
>> > >you southerners can have 'em. Gimme a Loma Prieta once, maybe twice
>> > >in my lifetime, and I'll take my chances. I'll take the 3-4.5's all
>> > >day long, too. Tornadoes, OTOH, are likely to "suck the paint off
>> > >your house and give your family a permanent orange afro." Hardly an
>> > >easy escape in one of these monsters.
>>
>> > You know, there are places that don't have earthquakes or tornados and
>> > don't have a cost of living where a 3 bedroom house will cost you
>> > $700,000. Just something to consider before you move.
>>
>> Holy shit! Where is that place, 'cause a 3/2 where I'm moving is
>> $800k!
>
> Portland, Oregon. No earthquakes, humidity, or tornadoes. My 3/2
> rental ranch is 230k with lots of amenities. Our 4/3 current home in
> Washington was bought for 340k with a magnificent view of the Columbia
> River, Portland (30 miles away), etc. I cannot imagine paying 800k
> for a ranch.
>
> -Greg


And only 200 days of rain each year.

No wonder the suicide rate is among the highest in the nation.

Randy




  
Date: 16 Apr 2007 11:24:20
From: larry
Subject: Re: On moving back west (NGC)
On 14 Apr 2007 11:28:58 -0700, "Dene" <gdstrue@aol.com > wrote:

>On Apr 14, 10:20 am, "Ben." <komb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Apr 14, 11:50 am, John van der Pflum <nowhammymyspa...@bite.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > On 14 Apr 2007 09:37:20 -0700, "Ben." <komb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> > >I've often been asked: tornadoes or earthquakes? Fuck tornadoes -
>> > >you southerners can have 'em. Gimme a Loma Prieta once, maybe twice
>> > >in my lifetime, and I'll take my chances. I'll take the 3-4.5's all
>> > >day long, too. Tornadoes, OTOH, are likely to "suck the paint off
>> > >your house and give your family a permanent orange afro." Hardly an
>> > >easy escape in one of these monsters.
>>
>> > You know, there are places that don't have earthquakes or tornados and
>> > don't have a cost of living where a 3 bedroom house will cost you
>> > $700,000. Just something to consider before you move.
>>
>> Holy shit! Where is that place, 'cause a 3/2 where I'm moving is
>> $800k!
>
>Portland, Oregon. No earthquakes, humidity, or tornadoes. My 3/2
>rental ranch is 230k with lots of amenities. Our 4/3 current home in
>Washington was bought for 340k with a magnificent view of the Columbia
>River, Portland (30 miles away), etc. I cannot imagine paying 800k
>for a ranch.

The Oregon coast is a swamp from November to May-- It rained 30
inches there this season, basically all day every day. Their HIGH
temperature is 50 most days--and colder many days-- with rain or sleet
coming in sideways. They close most golf courses because they are
unplayably wet-- Why on Earth would anyone in their right mind want
to live there? Those with money close their homes and bail out to
points South all Winter.


Property values will either remain level or go down. NOT a good
investment. Invest where the sun shines-- Phoenix, Tucson, any
little town in S. California. Life is too short to spend days
watching it rain.


Larry


  
Date: 14 Apr 2007 22:40:33
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: On moving back west (NGC)
On 14 Apr 2007 11:28:58 -0700, "Dene" <gdstrue@aol.com > wrote:

>Portland, Oregon. No earthquakes, humidity, or tornadoes. My 3/2
>rental ranch is 230k with lots of amenities. Our 4/3 current home in
>Washington was bought for 340k with a magnificent view of the Columbia
>River, Portland (30 miles away), etc. I cannot imagine paying 800k
>for a ranch.

No earthquakes - but neither are there earthquakes in New Madrid, MO.
At least not lately.

There are faults near Portland.


  
Date: 14 Apr 2007 12:45:55
From: Bob
Subject: Re: On moving back west (NGC)

"Dene" <gdstrue@aol.com > wrote in message
news:1176575338.023940.170350@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 14, 10:20 am, "Ben." <komb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Apr 14, 11:50 am, John van der Pflum <nowhammymyspa...@bite.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > On 14 Apr 2007 09:37:20 -0700, "Ben." <komb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> > >I've often been asked: tornadoes or earthquakes? Fuck tornadoes -
>> > >you southerners can have 'em. Gimme a Loma Prieta once, maybe twice
>> > >in my lifetime, and I'll take my chances. I'll take the 3-4.5's all
>> > >day long, too. Tornadoes, OTOH, are likely to "suck the paint off
>> > >your house and give your family a permanent orange afro." Hardly an
>> > >easy escape in one of these monsters.
>>
>> > You know, there are places that don't have earthquakes or tornados and
>> > don't have a cost of living where a 3 bedroom house will cost you
>> > $700,000. Just something to consider before you move.
>>
>> Holy shit! Where is that place, 'cause a 3/2 where I'm moving is
>> $800k!
>
> Portland, Oregon. No earthquakes, humidity, or tornadoes. My 3/2
> rental ranch is 230k with lots of amenities. Our 4/3 current home in
> Washington was bought for 340k with a magnificent view of the Columbia
> River, Portland (30 miles away), etc. I cannot imagine paying 800k
> for a ranch.
>
> -Greg
>

Depends on how many acres there are in the ranch ... :-)




 
Date: 14 Apr 2007 10:28:42
From: Ben.
Subject: Re: On moving back west (NGC)
On Apr 14, 12:00 pm, Chris Bellomy <p...@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid > wrote:

> Ben. <komb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > I've often been asked: tornadoes or earthquakes? Fuck tornadoes -
> > you southerners can have 'em.
>
> Thanks. Tornadoes are nothing that a good cellar won't solve.

Reminds me of the episode of The Simpsons when they built the bomb
shelter in their backyard, and everyone in the town fit into it except
for, I think it was, Homer. Anyway, tornadoes will destroy your
house, your cars, your real property, you, your loved ones,
everything, no matter how good a cellar you have. My parents house
was detroyed by one in 1991 - leveled. Had they not been out of town
for vacation with my younger brother, everyone in the house would be
dead. So, again I say, FUCK tornadoes.



  
Date: 14 Apr 2007 18:29:02
From: Chris Bellomy
Subject: Re: On moving back west (NGC)
Ben. <kombi45@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Apr 14, 12:00 pm, Chris Bellomy <p...@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Ben. <komb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > I've often been asked: tornadoes or earthquakes? Fuck tornadoes -
>> > you southerners can have 'em.
>>
>> Thanks. Tornadoes are nothing that a good cellar won't solve.
>
> Reminds me of the episode of The Simpsons when they built the bomb
> shelter in their backyard, and everyone in the town fit into it except
> for, I think it was, Homer. Anyway, tornadoes will destroy your
> house, your cars, your real property, you, your loved ones,
> everything, no matter how good a cellar you have.

So will earthquakes if you're in the wrong place at the wrong time.
The chances of each are slim no matter where you live.

--
Chris Bellomy
C-List Charter Member
http://clist.org/


   
Date: 16 Apr 2007 10:49:11
From: MnMikew
Subject: Re: On moving back west (NGC)

"Chris Bellomy" <puevf@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid > wrote in message
news:2T40trc4Ik85N34@redshark.goodshow.net...
> Ben. <kombi45@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Apr 14, 12:00 pm, Chris Bellomy <p...@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Ben. <komb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> > I've often been asked: tornadoes or earthquakes? Fuck tornadoes -
>>> > you southerners can have 'em.
>>>
>>> Thanks. Tornadoes are nothing that a good cellar won't solve.
>>
>> Reminds me of the episode of The Simpsons when they built the bomb
>> shelter in their backyard, and everyone in the town fit into it except
>> for, I think it was, Homer. Anyway, tornadoes will destroy your
>> house, your cars, your real property, you, your loved ones,
>> everything, no matter how good a cellar you have.
>
> So will earthquakes if you're in the wrong place at the wrong time.
> The chances of each are slim no matter where you live.
>
You chance of getting killed on the freeway every morning is MUCH higher
than either.




  
Date: 14 Apr 2007 13:41:32
From: sfb
Subject: Re: On moving back west (NGC)
Houses built to Florida hurricane standards withstood the February tornadoes
with almost no injuries to occupants.

"Ben." <kombi45@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1176571722.260517.321470@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 14, 12:00 pm, Chris Bellomy <p...@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Ben. <komb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > I've often been asked: tornadoes or earthquakes? Fuck tornadoes -
>> > you southerners can have 'em.
>>
>> Thanks. Tornadoes are nothing that a good cellar won't solve.
>
> Reminds me of the episode of The Simpsons when they built the bomb
> shelter in their backyard, and everyone in the town fit into it except
> for, I think it was, Homer. Anyway, tornadoes will destroy your
> house, your cars, your real property, you, your loved ones,
> everything, no matter how good a cellar you have. My parents house
> was detroyed by one in 1991 - leveled. Had they not been out of town
> for vacation with my younger brother, everyone in the house would be
> dead. So, again I say, FUCK tornadoes.
>




 
Date: 14 Apr 2007 10:20:30
From: Ben.
Subject: Re: On moving back west (NGC)
On Apr 14, 11:50 am, John van der Pflum <nowhammymyspa...@bite.org >
wrote:
> On 14 Apr 2007 09:37:20 -0700, "Ben." <komb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >I've often been asked: tornadoes or earthquakes? Fuck tornadoes -
> >you southerners can have 'em. Gimme a Loma Prieta once, maybe twice
> >in my lifetime, and I'll take my chances. I'll take the 3-4.5's all
> >day long, too. Tornadoes, OTOH, are likely to "suck the paint off
> >your house and give your family a permanent orange afro." Hardly an
> >easy escape in one of these monsters.
>
> You know, there are places that don't have earthquakes or tornados and
> don't have a cost of living where a 3 bedroom house will cost you
> $700,000. Just something to consider before you move.

Holy shit! Where is that place, 'cause a 3/2 where I'm moving is
$800k!



 
Date: 14 Apr 2007 17:00:22
From: Chris Bellomy
Subject: Re: On moving back west (NGC)
Ben. <kombi45@yahoo.com > wrote:
> I've often been asked: tornadoes or earthquakes? Fuck tornadoes -
> you southerners can have 'em.

Thanks. Tornadoes are nothing that a good cellar won't solve.

--
Chris Bellomy
C-List Charter Member
http://clist.org/


 
Date: 14 Apr 2007 12:50:07
From: John van der Pflum
Subject: Re: On moving back west (NGC)
On 14 Apr 2007 09:37:20 -0700, "Ben." <kombi45@yahoo.com > wrote:

>I've often been asked: tornadoes or earthquakes? Fuck tornadoes -
>you southerners can have 'em. Gimme a Loma Prieta once, maybe twice
>in my lifetime, and I'll take my chances. I'll take the 3-4.5's all
>day long, too. Tornadoes, OTOH, are likely to "suck the paint off
>your house and give your family a permanent orange afro." Hardly an
>easy escape in one of these monsters.

You know, there are places that don't have earthquakes or tornados and
don't have a cost of living where a 3 bedroom house will cost you
$700,000. Just something to consider before you move.
--

jvdp
RSG Cincinnati July 13-15, 2007
http://www.rsgcincinnati.com


  
Date: 14 Apr 2007 14:19:26
From: BAR
Subject: Re: On moving back west (NGC)
John van der Pflum wrote:
> On 14 Apr 2007 09:37:20 -0700, "Ben." <kombi45@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> I've often been asked: tornadoes or earthquakes? Fuck tornadoes -
>> you southerners can have 'em. Gimme a Loma Prieta once, maybe twice
>> in my lifetime, and I'll take my chances. I'll take the 3-4.5's all
>> day long, too. Tornadoes, OTOH, are likely to "suck the paint off
>> your house and give your family a permanent orange afro." Hardly an
>> easy escape in one of these monsters.
>
> You know, there are places that don't have earthquakes or tornados and
> don't have a cost of living where a 3 bedroom house will cost you
> $700,000. Just something to consider before you move.

Bet you didn't know that through the Ohio valley extending south to the
Gulf of Mexico there are more earthquakes each month than there are
earthquakes in all of California in one year.


  
Date: 14 Apr 2007 12:54:26
From: sfb
Subject: Re: On moving back west (NGC)
You left out the part about freezing rain, nine of snow, and temperatures
below freezing for days on end.

"John van der Pflum" <nowhammymyspammy@bite.org > wrote in message
news:hg1223p0dq72mt8a7ihqta329i1s843gkd@4ax.com...
> On 14 Apr 2007 09:37:20 -0700, "Ben." <kombi45@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>I've often been asked: tornadoes or earthquakes? Fuck tornadoes -
>>you southerners can have 'em. Gimme a Loma Prieta once, maybe twice
>>in my lifetime, and I'll take my chances. I'll take the 3-4.5's all
>>day long, too. Tornadoes, OTOH, are likely to "suck the paint off
>>your house and give your family a permanent orange afro." Hardly an
>>easy escape in one of these monsters.
>
> You know, there are places that don't have earthquakes or tornados and
> don't have a cost of living where a 3 bedroom house will cost you
> $700,000. Just something to consider before you move.
> --
>
> jvdp
> RSG Cincinnati July 13-15, 2007
> http://www.rsgcincinnati.com




   
Date: 16 Apr 2007 10:46:37
From: MnMikew
Subject: Re: On moving back west (NGC)

"sfb" <sfb@spam.net > wrote in message
news:PcqdnXlnScDYmrzbnZ2dnUVZ_tGvnZ2d@comcast.com...
> You left out the part about freezing rain, nine of snow, and temperatures
> below freezing for days on end.
>
Heaven.