| |
Main
Date: 26 Nov 2006 19:29:13
From: Dave Lee
Subject: On Improving Lag (continued)
|
This is kind of a continuation of the thread with the same Subject first
posted on 10/5/06. http://tinyurl.com/yf5efm
FWIW, the timing of this post is perfect as I'll have some time to think
about this vs. work on it. Last Sunday evening I caught the little toe of my
right foot on a bedframe. When it happened I wondered 'did I break that
thing?'. Swelling and the beginning of blood pooling in my foot tentatively
confirmed that suspicion the next morning. But there really isn't much to be
done about that.
Then yesterday I was doing some painting in the house and using a standard
fold-up (two-step) stepstool. I took my usual foot pointing out, weight on
the inside step up to keep weight off the toe, and the stepstool went
sideways, I went sideways, and I torque'ed my knee severely aggravating an
old (and quite frankly forgotten) knee injury while simultaneously banging
the injured toe. It'll be a few days before I'm swinging the club.
The toe event actually happened in a motel room while making my annual visit
with my teaching pro. We had agreed ahead of time that working on improving
my lag would be the goal of this year's trip.
My pro's philosophy toward making swing changes is very similar to Dr. Carey
Mumford's "Clear Key" perspective on things. In a nutshell it is drill based
mixing 'doing it right' however that might be achieved (customized teaching
aids, slow motion movement, break the swing into pieces, etc) and full
swings. I find it to be a sound approach to the problem, in general.
The drill that he has me doing is something that he calls the 'dagger
drill'. It is similar to 'the pump drill' which I think is fairly
well-known. You take your backswing and then downswing to roughly where your
hands are even with the ball being VERY careful to hold your wrist angle.
You then pump back/forth between this position and the top of the backswing
a few times before actually hitting the ball.
I've been quite surprised to find that I can't even hold my lag properly
when hitting the ball in the dagger drill, although there is a definite
improvement in coming into the ball from the inside. My next step (after
some recovery time) will be to start taking smaller and smaller swings with
the dagger drill (probably with a SW or LW) until I find something that
(from a lag perspective) I can do correctly when hitting the ball in the
dagger drill.
My teaching pro doesn't object to this, but his first choice would be to
have me stick with the full swing dagger drill swings.
Thoughts or opinions on this specific question or the general question of
improving lag? BTW I continue to be fascinated by the fact that my normal
practice swing has very good lag and I assume that this has been the case
for many years. Some time ago I gave up on taking the approach (directly) of
just making my 'practice swing' at the ball.
Thanks.
dave
|
|
| |
Date: 30 Nov 2006 09:33:46
From:
Subject: Re: On Improving Lag (continued)
|
David Laville wrote:
> On 29 Nov 2006 09:08:20 -0800, curtjester1@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> >We were speaking on this before, and what I was describing was a
> >pivotal lag. I see it as something geometrical and nothing in the
> >physics category which I define more or less as resistance which can
> >have a nice acceleration if one is adept.
>
> Lag is associated with force and motion so how can it be in the
> geometrical and not physics category?
>
Well the geometry of the lag is gone at the impact area so the club and
the clubhead and the hands are pretty much at the same position as at
address. If you have the hands going passed that in a cocked postion
your in an impossible hitting situation, so if one wants to speak of
lag continuing at that point it has to be in a motion sense. like many
golf definitions, they are just made up definitions, and it leaves one
possibly with a wrong visual.
> >> The problem is not getting rid of it, it's keeping it. I've seen very
> >> few golfers who sustain the lag.
> >>
> >For me the lag is tossed, and the resistance keeps a going.
>
> 2 questions;
>
> 1) what resistance?
>
Well, it's usually associated more with the pushing on a drive loaded
swing. The club has to change directions which if one likes to control
the club would be needed to control the tempo of the swing. Resistance
would be less on more free flinging swing, but it's still there as one
still has to maintain tempo rather than take the club back and just
spin it with a real light grip.
> 2) doesn't resistance tend to stop something rather than keep it
> going?
>
Yes, but in golf it's a good thing, it helps keeps the club controlled.
It prevents the speed of the club from happening too fast and allows
it to be monitored throughout the swing.
CJ
>
> David Laville, G.S.E.M.
> The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor
> TB-8982
|
| | |
Date: 01 Dec 2006 00:32:12
From: David Laville
Subject: Re: On Improving Lag (continued)
|
On 30 Nov 2006 09:33:46 -0800, curtjester1@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>David Laville wrote:
>> On 29 Nov 2006 09:08:20 -0800, curtjester1@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>> >We were speaking on this before, and what I was describing was a
>> >pivotal lag. I see it as something geometrical and nothing in the
>> >physics category which I define more or less as resistance which can
>> >have a nice acceleration if one is adept.
>>
>> Lag is associated with force and motion so how can it be in the
>> geometrical and not physics category?
>>
>Well the geometry of the lag is gone at the impact area so the club and
>the clubhead and the hands are pretty much at the same position as at
>address. If you have the hands going passed that in a cocked postion
>your in an impossible hitting situation, so if one wants to speak of
>lag continuing at that point it has to be in a motion sense. like many
>golf definitions, they are just made up definitions, and it leaves one
>possibly with a wrong visual.
>
>> >> The problem is not getting rid of it, it's keeping it. I've seen very
>> >> few golfers who sustain the lag.
>> >>
>> >For me the lag is tossed, and the resistance keeps a going.
>>
>> 2 questions;
>>
>> 1) what resistance?
>>
>Well, it's usually associated more with the pushing on a drive loaded
>swing. The club has to change directions which if one likes to control
>the club would be needed to control the tempo of the swing. Resistance
>would be less on more free flinging swing, but it's still there as one
>still has to maintain tempo rather than take the club back and just
>spin it with a real light grip.
>
>> 2) doesn't resistance tend to stop something rather than keep it
>> going?
>>
>Yes, but in golf it's a good thing, it helps keeps the club controlled.
> It prevents the speed of the club from happening too fast and allows
>it to be monitored throughout the swing.
Whew, okay. Good luck and happy golfing.
David Laville, G.S.E.M.
The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor
TB-8982
|
| |
Date: 29 Nov 2006 09:08:20
From:
Subject: Re: On Improving Lag (continued)
|
David Laville wrote:
> On 28 Nov 2006 10:41:56 -0800, curtjester1@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> >Lag is just something to use as a source of power.
>
> Lag is not power. Lag is keeping the club in a steady state of
> acceleration. What ever is keeping the club accelerating is the
> source of power.
>
We were speaking on this before, and what I was describing was a
pivotal lag. I see it as something geometrical and nothing in the
physics category which I define more or less as resistance which can
have a nice acceleration if one is adept.
> >Cock the wrist and there is the lag.
>
> Cock the wrist and we have a power accumulator, a velocity accumulator
> in fact. As the wrist uncock's and the shaft tries to become in line
> with the arm the surface speed of the clubhead increases while it's
> RPM's stays the same.
>
> >The problem maybe getting rid of it, in a effective
> >way and in a safe amount of time.
>
> The problem is not getting rid of it, it's keeping it. I've seen very
> few golfers who sustain the lag.
>
For me the lag is tossed, and the resistance keeps a going.
CJ
>
>
> David Laville, G.S.E.M.
> The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor
> TB-8982
|
| | |
Date: 29 Nov 2006 23:49:44
From: David Laville
Subject: Re: On Improving Lag (continued)
|
On 29 Nov 2006 09:08:20 -0800, curtjester1@hotmail.com wrote:
>We were speaking on this before, and what I was describing was a
>pivotal lag. I see it as something geometrical and nothing in the
>physics category which I define more or less as resistance which can
>have a nice acceleration if one is adept.
Lag is associated with force and motion so how can it be in the
geometrical and not physics category?
>> The problem is not getting rid of it, it's keeping it. I've seen very
>> few golfers who sustain the lag.
>>
>For me the lag is tossed, and the resistance keeps a going.
2 questions;
1) what resistance?
2) doesn't resistance tend to stop something rather than keep it
going?
David Laville, G.S.E.M.
The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor
TB-8982
|
| |
Date: 28 Nov 2006 16:42:37
From:
Subject: Re: On Improving Lag (continued)
|
Dave Lee wrote:
> <curtjester1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1164745652.130648.246370@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Dave Lee wrote:
> > > <curtjester1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:1164739315.944676.201630@45g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
> > > >
> > > > Dave Lee wrote:
> > > > > This is kind of a continuation of the thread with the same Subject
> first
> > > > > posted on 10/5/06. http://tinyurl.com/yf5efm
> > > > >
> > > > > FWIW, the timing of this post is perfect as I'll have some time to
> think
> > > > > about this vs. work on it. Last Sunday evening I caught the little
> toe
> > > of my
> > > > > right foot on a bedframe. When it happened I wondered 'did I break
> that
> > > > > thing?'. Swelling and the beginning of blood pooling in my foot
> > > tentatively
> > > > > confirmed that suspicion the next morning. But there really isn't
> much
> > > to be
> > > > > done about that.
> > > > >
> > > > > Then yesterday I was doing some painting in the house and using a
> > > standard
> > > > > fold-up (two-step) stepstool. I took my usual foot pointing out,
> weight
> > > on
> > > > > the inside step up to keep weight off the toe, and the stepstool
> went
> > > > > sideways, I went sideways, and I torque'ed my knee severely
> aggravating
> > > an
> > > > > old (and quite frankly forgotten) knee injury while simultaneously
> > > banging
> > > > > the injured toe. It'll be a few days before I'm swinging the club.
> > > > >
> > > > > The toe event actually happened in a motel room while making my
> annual
> > > visit
> > > > > with my teaching pro. We had agreed ahead of time that working on
> > > improving
> > > > > my lag would be the goal of this year's trip.
> > > > >
> > > > > My pro's philosophy toward making swing changes is very similar to
> Dr.
> > > Carey
> > > > > Mumford's "Clear Key" perspective on things. In a nutshell it is
> drill
> > > based
> > > > > mixing 'doing it right' however that might be achieved (customized
> > > teaching
> > > > > aids, slow motion movement, break the swing into pieces, etc) and
> full
> > > > > swings. I find it to be a sound approach to the problem, in general.
> > > > > Johnny Miller painting
> > > > > The drill that he has me doing is something that he calls the
> 'dagger
> > > > > drill'. It is similar to 'the pump drill' which I think is fairly
> > > > > well-known. You take your backswing and then downswing to roughly
> where
> > > your
> > > > > hands are even with the ball being VERY careful to hold your wrist
> > > angle.
> > > > > You then pump back/forth between this position and the top of the
> > > backswing
> > > > > a few times before actually hitting the ball.
> > > > >
> > > > > I've been quite surprised to find that I can't even hold my lag
> properly
> > > > > when hitting the ball in the dagger drill, although there is a
> definite
> > > > > improvement in coming into the ball from the inside. My next step
> (after
> > > > > some recovery time) will be to start taking smaller and smaller
> swings
> > > with
> > > > > the dagger drill (probably with a SW or LW) until I find something
> that
> > > > > (from a lag perspective) I can do correctly when hitting the ball in
> the
> > > > > dagger drill.
> > > > >
> > > > > My teaching pro doesn't object to this, but his first choice would
> be to
> > > > > have me stick with the full swing dagger drill swings.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thoughts or opinions on this specific question or the general
> question
> > > of
> > > > > improving lag? BTW I continue to be fascinated by the fact that my
> > > normal
> > > > > practice swing has very good lag and I assume that this has been the
> > > case
> > > > > for many years. Some time ago I gave up on taking the approach
> > > (directly) of
> > > > > just making my 'practice swing' at the ball.
> > > >
> > > > Lag is just something to use as a source of power. Cock the wrist and
> > > > there is the lag. The problem maybe getting rid of it, in a effective
> > > > way and in a safe amount of time. The only thing I see wrong with
> just
> > > > concentrating on lag is that it just is one item in a swing, and it
> > > > connects to others, like cadence of ones arms for an example. If one
> > > > were not moving the arms properly, then the wrists in their releasing
> > > > abilities could be negated. The most important thing I think of in
> any
> > > > swing, is just controlling the club. If your lag isn't used up by
> > > > impact, then you have a late hit or a right directional starting.
> > > >
> > > > CJ
> > >
> > > One thing that definitely seems to NOT be a problem for me is not using
> up
> > > my lag by impact :-)
> > >
> > > dave
> >
> > I was reading the other night about a pro giving a tip about releasing
> > while carrying the left arm through because if one didn't they would
> > have released not too early but ineffectively. If you are using up the
> > lag, then I would think you might be hitting more lefts?
> >
> > CJ
> >
>
> My predominant error has historically been left. More recently I have
> improved my backswing path, and I''m not sure that this is (or isn't) the
> case anymore. Still adjusting (with the same old crummy lag).
>
> dave
Try cheating. Work backwards in the swing, and find how you like your
feel at the 3:00 position, and then make your lag 'take you there'. I
know Johnny Miller used to have some great stuff on lag, but I forget
where.
CJ
|
| | |
Date: 29 Nov 2006 00:58:41
From: Dave Lee
Subject: Re: On Improving Lag (continued)
|
<curtjester1@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1164760957.946943.132610@l39g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>
> Dave Lee wrote:
> > <curtjester1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1164745652.130648.246370@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
> > >
> > > Dave Lee wrote:
> > > > <curtjester1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:1164739315.944676.201630@45g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
> > > > >
> > > > > Dave Lee wrote:
> > > > > > This is kind of a continuation of the thread with the same
Subject
> > first
> > > > > > posted on 10/5/06. http://tinyurl.com/yf5efm
> > > > > >
> > > > > > FWIW, the timing of this post is perfect as I'll have some time
to
> > think
> > > > > > about this vs. work on it. Last Sunday evening I caught the
little
> > toe
> > > > of my
> > > > > > right foot on a bedframe. When it happened I wondered 'did I
break
> > that
> > > > > > thing?'. Swelling and the beginning of blood pooling in my foot
> > > > tentatively
> > > > > > confirmed that suspicion the next morning. But there really
isn't
> > much
> > > > to be
> > > > > > done about that.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Then yesterday I was doing some painting in the house and using
a
> > > > standard
> > > > > > fold-up (two-step) stepstool. I took my usual foot pointing out,
> > weight
> > > > on
> > > > > > the inside step up to keep weight off the toe, and the stepstool
> > went
> > > > > > sideways, I went sideways, and I torque'ed my knee severely
> > aggravating
> > > > an
> > > > > > old (and quite frankly forgotten) knee injury while
simultaneously
> > > > banging
> > > > > > the injured toe. It'll be a few days before I'm swinging the
club.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The toe event actually happened in a motel room while making my
> > annual
> > > > visit
> > > > > > with my teaching pro. We had agreed ahead of time that working
on
> > > > improving
> > > > > > my lag would be the goal of this year's trip.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My pro's philosophy toward making swing changes is very similar
to
> > Dr.
> > > > Carey
> > > > > > Mumford's "Clear Key" perspective on things. In a nutshell it is
> > drill
> > > > based
> > > > > > mixing 'doing it right' however that might be achieved
(customized
> > > > teaching
> > > > > > aids, slow motion movement, break the swing into pieces, etc)
and
> > full
> > > > > > swings. I find it to be a sound approach to the problem, in
general.
> > > > > > Johnny Miller painting
> > > > > > The drill that he has me doing is something that he calls the
> > 'dagger
> > > > > > drill'. It is similar to 'the pump drill' which I think is
fairly
> > > > > > well-known. You take your backswing and then downswing to
roughly
> > where
> > > > your
> > > > > > hands are even with the ball being VERY careful to hold your
wrist
> > > > angle.
> > > > > > You then pump back/forth between this position and the top of
the
> > > > backswing
> > > > > > a few times before actually hitting the ball.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I've been quite surprised to find that I can't even hold my lag
> > properly
> > > > > > when hitting the ball in the dagger drill, although there is a
> > definite
> > > > > > improvement in coming into the ball from the inside. My next
step
> > (after
> > > > > > some recovery time) will be to start taking smaller and smaller
> > swings
> > > > with
> > > > > > the dagger drill (probably with a SW or LW) until I find
something
> > that
> > > > > > (from a lag perspective) I can do correctly when hitting the
ball in
> > the
> > > > > > dagger drill.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My teaching pro doesn't object to this, but his first choice
would
> > be to
> > > > > > have me stick with the full swing dagger drill swings.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thoughts or opinions on this specific question or the general
> > question
> > > > of
> > > > > > improving lag? BTW I continue to be fascinated by the fact that
my
> > > > normal
> > > > > > practice swing has very good lag and I assume that this has been
the
> > > > case
> > > > > > for many years. Some time ago I gave up on taking the approach
> > > > (directly) of
> > > > > > just making my 'practice swing' at the ball.
> > > > >
> > > > > Lag is just something to use as a source of power. Cock the wrist
and
> > > > > there is the lag. The problem maybe getting rid of it, in a
effective
> > > > > way and in a safe amount of time. The only thing I see wrong with
> > just
> > > > > concentrating on lag is that it just is one item in a swing, and
it
> > > > > connects to others, like cadence of ones arms for an example. If
one
> > > > > were not moving the arms properly, then the wrists in their
releasing
> > > > > abilities could be negated. The most important thing I think of
in
> > any
> > > > > swing, is just controlling the club. If your lag isn't used up by
> > > > > impact, then you have a late hit or a right directional starting.
> > > > >
> > > > > CJ
> > > >
> > > > One thing that definitely seems to NOT be a problem for me is not
using
> > up
> > > > my lag by impact :-)
> > > >
> > > > dave
> > >
> > > I was reading the other night about a pro giving a tip about releasing
> > > while carrying the left arm through because if one didn't they would
> > > have released not too early but ineffectively. If you are using up
the
> > > lag, then I would think you might be hitting more lefts?
> > >
> > > CJ
> > >
> >
> > My predominant error has historically been left. More recently I have
> > improved my backswing path, and I''m not sure that this is (or isn't)
the
> > case anymore. Still adjusting (with the same old crummy lag).
> >
> > dave
>
> Try cheating. Work backwards in the swing, and find how you like your
> feel at the 3:00 position, and then make your lag 'take you there'. I
> know Johnny Miller used to have some great stuff on lag, but I forget
> where.
>
> CJ
>
A useful suggestion and (in my mind) pretty much 'the dagger drill' that
started this thread.
dave
|
| |
Date: 28 Nov 2006 12:27:32
From:
Subject: Re: On Improving Lag (continued)
|
Dave Lee wrote:
> <curtjester1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1164739315.944676.201630@45g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Dave Lee wrote:
> > > This is kind of a continuation of the thread with the same Subject first
> > > posted on 10/5/06. http://tinyurl.com/yf5efm
> > >
> > > FWIW, the timing of this post is perfect as I'll have some time to think
> > > about this vs. work on it. Last Sunday evening I caught the little toe
> of my
> > > right foot on a bedframe. When it happened I wondered 'did I break that
> > > thing?'. Swelling and the beginning of blood pooling in my foot
> tentatively
> > > confirmed that suspicion the next morning. But there really isn't much
> to be
> > > done about that.
> > >
> > > Then yesterday I was doing some painting in the house and using a
> standard
> > > fold-up (two-step) stepstool. I took my usual foot pointing out, weight
> on
> > > the inside step up to keep weight off the toe, and the stepstool went
> > > sideways, I went sideways, and I torque'ed my knee severely aggravating
> an
> > > old (and quite frankly forgotten) knee injury while simultaneously
> banging
> > > the injured toe. It'll be a few days before I'm swinging the club.
> > >
> > > The toe event actually happened in a motel room while making my annual
> visit
> > > with my teaching pro. We had agreed ahead of time that working on
> improving
> > > my lag would be the goal of this year's trip.
> > >
> > > My pro's philosophy toward making swing changes is very similar to Dr.
> Carey
> > > Mumford's "Clear Key" perspective on things. In a nutshell it is drill
> based
> > > mixing 'doing it right' however that might be achieved (customized
> teaching
> > > aids, slow motion movement, break the swing into pieces, etc) and full
> > > swings. I find it to be a sound approach to the problem, in general.
> > >
> > > The drill that he has me doing is something that he calls the 'dagger
> > > drill'. It is similar to 'the pump drill' which I think is fairly
> > > well-known. You take your backswing and then downswing to roughly where
> your
> > > hands are even with the ball being VERY careful to hold your wrist
> angle.
> > > You then pump back/forth between this position and the top of the
> backswing
> > > a few times before actually hitting the ball.
> > >
> > > I've been quite surprised to find that I can't even hold my lag properly
> > > when hitting the ball in the dagger drill, although there is a definite
> > > improvement in coming into the ball from the inside. My next step (after
> > > some recovery time) will be to start taking smaller and smaller swings
> with
> > > the dagger drill (probably with a SW or LW) until I find something that
> > > (from a lag perspective) I can do correctly when hitting the ball in the
> > > dagger drill.
> > >
> > > My teaching pro doesn't object to this, but his first choice would be to
> > > have me stick with the full swing dagger drill swings.
> > >
> > > Thoughts or opinions on this specific question or the general question
> of
> > > improving lag? BTW I continue to be fascinated by the fact that my
> normal
> > > practice swing has very good lag and I assume that this has been the
> case
> > > for many years. Some time ago I gave up on taking the approach
> (directly) of
> > > just making my 'practice swing' at the ball.
> >
> > Lag is just something to use as a source of power. Cock the wrist and
> > there is the lag. The problem maybe getting rid of it, in a effective
> > way and in a safe amount of time. The only thing I see wrong with just
> > concentrating on lag is that it just is one item in a swing, and it
> > connects to others, like cadence of ones arms for an example. If one
> > were not moving the arms properly, then the wrists in their releasing
> > abilities could be negated. The most important thing I think of in any
> > swing, is just controlling the club. If your lag isn't used up by
> > impact, then you have a late hit or a right directional starting.
> >
> > CJ
>
> One thing that definitely seems to NOT be a problem for me is not using up
> my lag by impact :-)
>
> dave
I was reading the other night about a pro giving a tip about releasing
while carrying the left arm through because if one didn't they would
have released not too early but ineffectively. If you are using up the
lag, then I would think you might be hitting more lefts?
CJ
|
| | |
Date: 28 Nov 2006 20:47:49
From: Dave Lee
Subject: Re: On Improving Lag (continued)
|
<curtjester1@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1164745652.130648.246370@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
>
> Dave Lee wrote:
> > <curtjester1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1164739315.944676.201630@45g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
> > >
> > > Dave Lee wrote:
> > > > This is kind of a continuation of the thread with the same Subject
first
> > > > posted on 10/5/06. http://tinyurl.com/yf5efm
> > > >
> > > > FWIW, the timing of this post is perfect as I'll have some time to
think
> > > > about this vs. work on it. Last Sunday evening I caught the little
toe
> > of my
> > > > right foot on a bedframe. When it happened I wondered 'did I break
that
> > > > thing?'. Swelling and the beginning of blood pooling in my foot
> > tentatively
> > > > confirmed that suspicion the next morning. But there really isn't
much
> > to be
> > > > done about that.
> > > >
> > > > Then yesterday I was doing some painting in the house and using a
> > standard
> > > > fold-up (two-step) stepstool. I took my usual foot pointing out,
weight
> > on
> > > > the inside step up to keep weight off the toe, and the stepstool
went
> > > > sideways, I went sideways, and I torque'ed my knee severely
aggravating
> > an
> > > > old (and quite frankly forgotten) knee injury while simultaneously
> > banging
> > > > the injured toe. It'll be a few days before I'm swinging the club.
> > > >
> > > > The toe event actually happened in a motel room while making my
annual
> > visit
> > > > with my teaching pro. We had agreed ahead of time that working on
> > improving
> > > > my lag would be the goal of this year's trip.
> > > >
> > > > My pro's philosophy toward making swing changes is very similar to
Dr.
> > Carey
> > > > Mumford's "Clear Key" perspective on things. In a nutshell it is
drill
> > based
> > > > mixing 'doing it right' however that might be achieved (customized
> > teaching
> > > > aids, slow motion movement, break the swing into pieces, etc) and
full
> > > > swings. I find it to be a sound approach to the problem, in general.
> > > >
> > > > The drill that he has me doing is something that he calls the
'dagger
> > > > drill'. It is similar to 'the pump drill' which I think is fairly
> > > > well-known. You take your backswing and then downswing to roughly
where
> > your
> > > > hands are even with the ball being VERY careful to hold your wrist
> > angle.
> > > > You then pump back/forth between this position and the top of the
> > backswing
> > > > a few times before actually hitting the ball.
> > > >
> > > > I've been quite surprised to find that I can't even hold my lag
properly
> > > > when hitting the ball in the dagger drill, although there is a
definite
> > > > improvement in coming into the ball from the inside. My next step
(after
> > > > some recovery time) will be to start taking smaller and smaller
swings
> > with
> > > > the dagger drill (probably with a SW or LW) until I find something
that
> > > > (from a lag perspective) I can do correctly when hitting the ball in
the
> > > > dagger drill.
> > > >
> > > > My teaching pro doesn't object to this, but his first choice would
be to
> > > > have me stick with the full swing dagger drill swings.
> > > >
> > > > Thoughts or opinions on this specific question or the general
question
> > of
> > > > improving lag? BTW I continue to be fascinated by the fact that my
> > normal
> > > > practice swing has very good lag and I assume that this has been the
> > case
> > > > for many years. Some time ago I gave up on taking the approach
> > (directly) of
> > > > just making my 'practice swing' at the ball.
> > >
> > > Lag is just something to use as a source of power. Cock the wrist and
> > > there is the lag. The problem maybe getting rid of it, in a effective
> > > way and in a safe amount of time. The only thing I see wrong with
just
> > > concentrating on lag is that it just is one item in a swing, and it
> > > connects to others, like cadence of ones arms for an example. If one
> > > were not moving the arms properly, then the wrists in their releasing
> > > abilities could be negated. The most important thing I think of in
any
> > > swing, is just controlling the club. If your lag isn't used up by
> > > impact, then you have a late hit or a right directional starting.
> > >
> > > CJ
> >
> > One thing that definitely seems to NOT be a problem for me is not using
up
> > my lag by impact :-)
> >
> > dave
>
> I was reading the other night about a pro giving a tip about releasing
> while carrying the left arm through because if one didn't they would
> have released not too early but ineffectively. If you are using up the
> lag, then I would think you might be hitting more lefts?
>
> CJ
>
My predominant error has historically been left. More recently I have
improved my backswing path, and I''m not sure that this is (or isn't) the
case anymore. Still adjusting (with the same old crummy lag).
dave
|
| |
Date: 28 Nov 2006 10:41:56
From:
Subject: Re: On Improving Lag (continued)
|
Dave Lee wrote:
> This is kind of a continuation of the thread with the same Subject first
> posted on 10/5/06. http://tinyurl.com/yf5efm
>
> FWIW, the timing of this post is perfect as I'll have some time to think
> about this vs. work on it. Last Sunday evening I caught the little toe of my
> right foot on a bedframe. When it happened I wondered 'did I break that
> thing?'. Swelling and the beginning of blood pooling in my foot tentatively
> confirmed that suspicion the next morning. But there really isn't much to be
> done about that.
>
> Then yesterday I was doing some painting in the house and using a standard
> fold-up (two-step) stepstool. I took my usual foot pointing out, weight on
> the inside step up to keep weight off the toe, and the stepstool went
> sideways, I went sideways, and I torque'ed my knee severely aggravating an
> old (and quite frankly forgotten) knee injury while simultaneously banging
> the injured toe. It'll be a few days before I'm swinging the club.
>
> The toe event actually happened in a motel room while making my annual visit
> with my teaching pro. We had agreed ahead of time that working on improving
> my lag would be the goal of this year's trip.
>
> My pro's philosophy toward making swing changes is very similar to Dr. Carey
> Mumford's "Clear Key" perspective on things. In a nutshell it is drill based
> mixing 'doing it right' however that might be achieved (customized teaching
> aids, slow motion movement, break the swing into pieces, etc) and full
> swings. I find it to be a sound approach to the problem, in general.
>
> The drill that he has me doing is something that he calls the 'dagger
> drill'. It is similar to 'the pump drill' which I think is fairly
> well-known. You take your backswing and then downswing to roughly where your
> hands are even with the ball being VERY careful to hold your wrist angle.
> You then pump back/forth between this position and the top of the backswing
> a few times before actually hitting the ball.
>
> I've been quite surprised to find that I can't even hold my lag properly
> when hitting the ball in the dagger drill, although there is a definite
> improvement in coming into the ball from the inside. My next step (after
> some recovery time) will be to start taking smaller and smaller swings with
> the dagger drill (probably with a SW or LW) until I find something that
> (from a lag perspective) I can do correctly when hitting the ball in the
> dagger drill.
>
> My teaching pro doesn't object to this, but his first choice would be to
> have me stick with the full swing dagger drill swings.
>
> Thoughts or opinions on this specific question or the general question of
> improving lag? BTW I continue to be fascinated by the fact that my normal
> practice swing has very good lag and I assume that this has been the case
> for many years. Some time ago I gave up on taking the approach (directly) of
> just making my 'practice swing' at the ball.
Lag is just something to use as a source of power. Cock the wrist and
there is the lag. The problem maybe getting rid of it, in a effective
way and in a safe amount of time. The only thing I see wrong with just
concentrating on lag is that it just is one item in a swing, and it
connects to others, like cadence of ones arms for an example. If one
were not moving the arms properly, then the wrists in their releasing
abilities could be negated. The most important thing I think of in any
swing, is just controlling the club. If your lag isn't used up by
impact, then you have a late hit or a right directional starting.
CJ
>
> Thanks.
>
> dave
|
| | |
Date: 29 Nov 2006 01:02:57
From: David Laville
Subject: Re: On Improving Lag (continued)
|
On 28 Nov 2006 10:41:56 -0800, curtjester1@hotmail.com wrote:
>Lag is just something to use as a source of power.
Lag is not power. Lag is keeping the club in a steady state of
acceleration. What ever is keeping the club accelerating is the
source of power.
>Cock the wrist and there is the lag.
Cock the wrist and we have a power accumulator, a velocity accumulator
in fact. As the wrist uncock's and the shaft tries to become in line
with the arm the surface speed of the clubhead increases while it's
RPM's stays the same.
>The problem maybe getting rid of it, in a effective
>way and in a safe amount of time.
The problem is not getting rid of it, it's keeping it. I've seen very
few golfers who sustain the lag.
David Laville, G.S.E.M.
The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor
TB-8982
|
| | | |
Date: 29 Nov 2006 03:55:36
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: On Improving Lag (continued)
|
On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 01:02:57 GMT, David Laville
<dlaville@worldnet.att.net > wrote:
>>Lag is just something to use as a source of power.
>
>Lag is not power. Lag is keeping the club in a steady state of
>acceleration. What ever is keeping the club accelerating is the
>source of power.
We can have a steady state of acceleration without lag. Lag allows
it to be faster though.
|
| | |
Date: 28 Nov 2006 19:50:50
From: Dave Lee
Subject: Re: On Improving Lag (continued)
|
<curtjester1@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1164739315.944676.201630@45g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
>
> Dave Lee wrote:
> > This is kind of a continuation of the thread with the same Subject first
> > posted on 10/5/06. http://tinyurl.com/yf5efm
> >
> > FWIW, the timing of this post is perfect as I'll have some time to think
> > about this vs. work on it. Last Sunday evening I caught the little toe
of my
> > right foot on a bedframe. When it happened I wondered 'did I break that
> > thing?'. Swelling and the beginning of blood pooling in my foot
tentatively
> > confirmed that suspicion the next morning. But there really isn't much
to be
> > done about that.
> >
> > Then yesterday I was doing some painting in the house and using a
standard
> > fold-up (two-step) stepstool. I took my usual foot pointing out, weight
on
> > the inside step up to keep weight off the toe, and the stepstool went
> > sideways, I went sideways, and I torque'ed my knee severely aggravating
an
> > old (and quite frankly forgotten) knee injury while simultaneously
banging
> > the injured toe. It'll be a few days before I'm swinging the club.
> >
> > The toe event actually happened in a motel room while making my annual
visit
> > with my teaching pro. We had agreed ahead of time that working on
improving
> > my lag would be the goal of this year's trip.
> >
> > My pro's philosophy toward making swing changes is very similar to Dr.
Carey
> > Mumford's "Clear Key" perspective on things. In a nutshell it is drill
based
> > mixing 'doing it right' however that might be achieved (customized
teaching
> > aids, slow motion movement, break the swing into pieces, etc) and full
> > swings. I find it to be a sound approach to the problem, in general.
> >
> > The drill that he has me doing is something that he calls the 'dagger
> > drill'. It is similar to 'the pump drill' which I think is fairly
> > well-known. You take your backswing and then downswing to roughly where
your
> > hands are even with the ball being VERY careful to hold your wrist
angle.
> > You then pump back/forth between this position and the top of the
backswing
> > a few times before actually hitting the ball.
> >
> > I've been quite surprised to find that I can't even hold my lag properly
> > when hitting the ball in the dagger drill, although there is a definite
> > improvement in coming into the ball from the inside. My next step (after
> > some recovery time) will be to start taking smaller and smaller swings
with
> > the dagger drill (probably with a SW or LW) until I find something that
> > (from a lag perspective) I can do correctly when hitting the ball in the
> > dagger drill.
> >
> > My teaching pro doesn't object to this, but his first choice would be to
> > have me stick with the full swing dagger drill swings.
> >
> > Thoughts or opinions on this specific question or the general question
of
> > improving lag? BTW I continue to be fascinated by the fact that my
normal
> > practice swing has very good lag and I assume that this has been the
case
> > for many years. Some time ago I gave up on taking the approach
(directly) of
> > just making my 'practice swing' at the ball.
>
> Lag is just something to use as a source of power. Cock the wrist and
> there is the lag. The problem maybe getting rid of it, in a effective
> way and in a safe amount of time. The only thing I see wrong with just
> concentrating on lag is that it just is one item in a swing, and it
> connects to others, like cadence of ones arms for an example. If one
> were not moving the arms properly, then the wrists in their releasing
> abilities could be negated. The most important thing I think of in any
> swing, is just controlling the club. If your lag isn't used up by
> impact, then you have a late hit or a right directional starting.
>
> CJ
One thing that definitely seems to NOT be a problem for me is not using up
my lag by impact :-)
dave
|
|
