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Main
Date: 31 Aug 2006 15:27:01
From: Howard U. Dewing
Subject: More Ryder Cup changes needed
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Ryder Cup coming up soon, and then the President's cup next year. At
some point all these competitions will need to be reconfigured. It's
the same issue facing Champ Cars and the IRL: rationalization of the
whole mess.
With teams coming from three major pools, The US, Europe and the Rest of
the World, one could imagine a different format that didn't require the
Americans to field a team every year. While it's an element of pride to
play on a team for your country, it's also a burden to get the team
organized, clear schedules, get a captain and all the rest every single
year.
I've suggested this before, as have others, but what if there was a
single competition: a reconfigured Ryder Cup? (It still has all the
cachet. It's a "major", while the President's cup is like the
WGC-important and rich, but not a "major".)
Let's say the US wins the RC in 2010. In 2011 the other two teams who
don't hold it play for the right to challenge in 2012. Call it the Ryder
Cup Challenge Matches. Same Ryder branding, look and feel, but
involving a field that is 50% different from the previous year. If the
US wins, the two other teams challenge again and so on. Even if the US
loses, they would participate in Ryder Challenge, keeping the US ket
engaged in RC competition.
I'm sure there will be resistence, and plenty of reasons not to do it,
but the President's Cup is lame, and the Ryder Cup leaves too many good
players out.
--
Howard U. Dewing
I made up this name. It was a choice between this and Watson deMehneux.
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Date: 01 Sep 2006 21:23:33
From: Crispin Roche
Subject: Re: More Ryder Cup changes needed
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On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 15:27:01 GMT, "Howard U. Dewing"
<sample@sample.net > wrote:
>Ryder Cup coming up soon, and then the President's cup next year. At
>some point all these competitions will need to be reconfigured. It's
>the same issue facing Champ Cars and the IRL: rationalization of the
>whole mess.
>
>With teams coming from three major pools, The US, Europe and the Rest of
>the World, one could imagine a different format that didn't require the
>Americans to field a team every year. While it's an element of pride to
>play on a team for your country, it's also a burden to get the team
>organized, clear schedules, get a captain and all the rest every single
>year.
>
>I've suggested this before, as have others, but what if there was a
>single competition: a reconfigured Ryder Cup? (It still has all the
>cachet. It's a "major", while the President's cup is like the
>WGC-important and rich, but not a "major".)
>
>Let's say the US wins the RC in 2010. In 2011 the other two teams who
>don't hold it play for the right to challenge in 2012. Call it the Ryder
>Cup Challenge Matches. Same Ryder branding, look and feel, but
>involving a field that is 50% different from the previous year. If the
>US wins, the two other teams challenge again and so on. Even if the US
>loses, they would participate in Ryder Challenge, keeping the US ket
>engaged in RC competition.
>
>I'm sure there will be resistence, and plenty of reasons not to do it,
>but the President's Cup is lame, and the Ryder Cup leaves too many good
>players out.
This is a joke post isn't it.
You worry about the burden of organizing a team, getting a captain,
clearing schedules etcetera and then propose deciding on who plays who
by a challenge series without a thought for the real work in
organizing the event and that is getting courses ready. You do
realise that the next 4 Ryder cup venues (2008, 2010, 2012 and 2014)
have already been selected and that work has just started in preparing
the 2010 venue for the event.
Crispin Roche
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Date: 01 Sep 2006 08:34:59
From: joes
Subject: Re: More Ryder Cup changes needed
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Darrell Jefress wrote:
>
> But I just get the feeling that while Tiger and Furyk are going up against
> Ernie and Mike Weir, for instance, these guys never forget that they're all
> still friends. At the Ryder, it just seems like for four days, the Europeans
> really truly see Tiger & Phil & the Americans as their enemies. Maybe that's
> one of the reasons they've done so well in recent events. It ain't just a
> sporting event to these guys, winning really feels like a matter of honor,
> pride, God and country, more than it has been to the Americans.
>
> DJJ
To be honest I don't think it has so much to do with the Europeans
really wanting to win so badly as it has to do with the top performing
US players not able to make the mental leap from an individual game to
a team game. Tiger is driven by his unique ability to win for himself
(something to which he has spoken of often). Could it be the lack of a
large purse at the end of the Ryder Cup is what fails to motivate the
top US golfers more than the "matter of honour" feelings of the
Europeans?
Joe
www.ryderdiary.com
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Date: 31 Aug 2006 13:15:01
From: pete z
Subject: Re: More Ryder Cup changes needed
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Darrell Jefress wrote:
> "John van der Pflum" <jpflumjr@ughookugh.com> wrote in message
> news:t87ef2da2dbtg4r9rlveehbte0e9cl8seg@4ax.com...
>
> > You think the President's Cup is going away? It seemed pretty good
> > last year and the drama of it coming down to the last match can't do
> > anything but help it for future years.
>
> Boy, I must have written that poorly. No, the PC would go away under
> Howard's scenario, replaced with the "pre-Ryder" Cup.
>
> I actually enjoy the PC more than the RC, myself. The "world" team has more
> guys that we see every week on TV than the RC has. And it has more of a
> "friendly competition" feel to it. Some will prefer that, while some will
> prefer the "this is war, you guys suck, we hate you" feel that the Ryder Cup
> seems to have every time. (Paging Paul Casey, . . . . )
>
> DJJ
Hmmmmm, friendly competition? I went to a few at RTJ Club, and they
seemed
pretty serious to me. Remember the Tiger who? episode?
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Date: 31 Aug 2006 23:38:05
From: Darrell Jefress
Subject: Re: More Ryder Cup changes needed
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"pete z" <pz0326@aol.com > wrote in message
news:1157055300.539874.217250@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Darrell Jefress wrote:
> > I actually enjoy the PC more than the RC, myself. The "world" team has
more
> > guys that we see every week on TV than the RC has. And it has more of a
> > "friendly competition" feel to it. Some will prefer that, while some
will
> > prefer the "this is war, you guys suck, we hate you" feel that the Ryder
Cup
> > seems to have every time. (Paging Paul Casey, . . . . )
> >
> > DJJ
>
>
> Hmmmmm, friendly competition? I went to a few at RTJ Club, and they
> seemed
> pretty serious to me. Remember the Tiger who? episode?
Lest I express myself poorly yet again - no doubt they're very serious about
the competition itself in the PC. Is there *anyone* who takes competition
more seriously than Tiger, no matter where it is? I'll never forget that
sudden death that he and Ernie had a few years back in the dark down in
South Africa.
But I just get the feeling that while Tiger and Furyk are going up against
Ernie and Mike Weir, for instance, these guys never forget that they're all
still friends. At the Ryder, it just seems like for four days, the Europeans
really truly see Tiger & Phil & the Americans as their enemies. Maybe that's
one of the reasons they've done so well in recent events. It ain't just a
sporting event to these guys, winning really feels like a matter of honor,
pride, God and country, more than it has been to the Americans.
DJJ
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Date: 01 Sep 2006 15:38:45
From: Howard U. Dewing
Subject: Re: More Ryder Cup changes needed
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Darrell Jefress wrote:
>
> But I just get the feeling that while Tiger and Furyk are going up against
> Ernie and Mike Weir, for instance, these guys never forget that they're all
> still friends. At the Ryder, it just seems like for four days, the Europeans
> really truly see Tiger & Phil & the Americans as their enemies.
>
And therein lies the issue. The Ryder Cup is real, hard fought and it
matters...it's a "major" The PC is fun, competitive, interesting,
occasionaly dramatic (Ernie v. Tiger in the dark), but it's just another
golf event.
By absorbing this event --or at least the RotW players--and branding it
as Ryder Cup Challenge, you achieve a couple of things. The Americans
don't have to field a team every year; all top golers can challenge for
the top international prize; all international team competition gains
lustre and status.
--
Howard U. Dewing
I made up this name. It was a choice between this and Watson deMehneux.
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Date: 01 Sep 2006 16:18:30
From: William A. T. Clark
Subject: Re: More Ryder Cup changes needed
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In article <9uYJg.492588$iF6.151747@pd7tw2no >,
"Howard U. Dewing" <sample@sample.net > wrote:
> Darrell Jefress wrote:
>
> >
> > But I just get the feeling that while Tiger and Furyk are going up against
> > Ernie and Mike Weir, for instance, these guys never forget that they're all
> > still friends. At the Ryder, it just seems like for four days, the Europeans
> > really truly see Tiger & Phil & the Americans as their enemies.
> >
> And therein lies the issue. The Ryder Cup is real, hard fought and it
> matters...it's a "major" The PC is fun, competitive, interesting,
> occasionaly dramatic (Ernie v. Tiger in the dark), but it's just another
> golf event.
>
> By absorbing this event --or at least the RotW players--and branding it
> as Ryder Cup Challenge, you achieve a couple of things. The Americans
> don't have to field a team every year; all top golers can challenge for
> the top international prize; all international team competition gains
> lustre and status.
And you deprive it of its principal character - the rivalry between the
PGA and European tours and players. It becomes yet another made for TV
event.
William Clark
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Date: 31 Aug 2006 10:24:11
From: Fairway
Subject: Re: More Ryder Cup changes needed
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Howard U. Dewing wrote:
> With teams coming from three major pools, The US, Europe and the Rest of
> the World, one could imagine a different format that didn't require the
> Americans to field a team every year.
"The Rest Of The World" is not a state or a continent. It is not
associated with a particular well-defined national image of any kind of
a set of emotions. You can=B4t fight against something which isn=B4t even
a concept. Europe vs UsS is something different. Old rivals meeting
once again in a ritual slaughter . It=B4s got it all: history, emotion,
passion, fighting spirit, gamesmanship, mutual respect, legends...... F
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Date: 31 Aug 2006 12:56:52
From: Wayne
Subject: Re: More Ryder Cup changes needed
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Howard U. Dewing wrote:
> Ryder Cup coming up soon, and then the President's cup next year. At
> some point all these competitions will need to be reconfigured. It's
> the same issue facing Champ Cars and the IRL: rationalization of the
> whole mess.
>
> With teams coming from three major pools, The US, Europe and the Rest of
> the World, one could imagine a different format that didn't require the
> Americans to field a team every year. While it's an element of pride to
> play on a team for your country, it's also a burden to get the team
> organized, clear schedules, get a captain and all the rest every single
> year.
>
> I've suggested this before, as have others, but what if there was a
> single competition: a reconfigured Ryder Cup? (It still has all the
> cachet. It's a "major", while the President's cup is like the
> WGC-important and rich, but not a "major".)
>
> Let's say the US wins the RC in 2010. In 2011 the other two teams who
> don't hold it play for the right to challenge in 2012. Call it the Ryder
> Cup Challenge Matches. Same Ryder branding, look and feel, but
> involving a field that is 50% different from the previous year. If the
> US wins, the two other teams challenge again and so on. Even if the US
> loses, they would participate in Ryder Challenge, keeping the US ket
> engaged in RC competition.
>
> I'm sure there will be resistence, and plenty of reasons not to do it,
> but the President's Cup is lame, and the Ryder Cup leaves too many good
> players out.
I'll not comment about the PGA Tour and PGA of America having to work
together on this and there being absolutely no incentive for the PGA of
America to do so as others have already covered that.
How do you choose where the matches are held? I'm guessing that the holder
of the cup gets homefield advantage, but what about the challenge matches?
And what about the fact that Ryder Cup venues have been determined through
2014?
Wayne
--
www.nhlfa.com
"There are only two things I can't stand in this world: people who are
intolerant of other peoples' cultures, and the Dutch."
-Nigel Powers
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Date: 31 Aug 2006 20:41:13
From: David
Subject: Re: Chipping with a PW
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On 31 Aug 2006 09:59:18 -0700, "Ersatz" <rog@repairman.com > wrote:
>
>David wrote:
>
>>
>> Practicing your short game is a sure way to getting your score down.
>> I would not consider shots from 80 yards out to be chops, though.
>> Normally, I would consider chipping to be around the green.
>>
>> From the fringe and a clear line to the hole, I always use a putter.
>> I would not rely on a single club for the short game. If I am 80
>> yards out with the hole cut in the back of a long green, I will tend
>> to pull out an 8 iron and let the ball run up to the pin. Trying to
>> stick a SW close is more difficult.
>
>Chip and run is very difficult due to the course having its drainage
>improved, particularly around the greens, leaving draining channels to
>stop or knock your ball off course
I did not mean chip short of the green and run the ball up, sorry. I
was referring to carrying the ball to the first third, or first half
of the green and letting the ball run out. Unless the fairways were
really firm and fairly flat would I land the ball short of the green
and let it run up. Flying the ball all the way to the hole with half
and three-quarter swings of a SW, or PW are more difficult to get
close than landing the ball on the green and letting it run out for
most players :-)
>>
>> If I have to pitch the ball over a bunker, then I use a sand wedge
>> and hit flop shot, if the pin is cut close. The point is, there are
>> situations that need to be worked out before the club is selected.
>> Relying on one club for everything is not the answer.
>>
>> If you really want to improve your scores, practice your putting
>> everyday for an hour. After a while, you will develop the attitude
>> that you can make putts from anywhere on the green and this will
>> reduce the stress that you may put on yourself with the short game and
>> the result will be improvements in both areas of your game.
>>
>
>good advice, thanks
>
>>
>> David
>
>Roger
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Date: 31 Aug 2006 11:47:53
From: sfb
Subject: Re: More Ryder Cup changes needed
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The PGA of America isn't going to slaughter their cash cow.
"Howard U. Dewing" <sample@sample.net > wrote in message
news:9dDJg.488679$iF6.184837@pd7tw2no...
> Ryder Cup coming up soon, and then the President's cup next year. At some
> point all these competitions will need to be reconfigured. It's the same
> issue facing Champ Cars and the IRL: rationalization of the whole mess.
>
> With teams coming from three major pools, The US, Europe and the Rest of
> the World, one could imagine a different format that didn't require the
> Americans to field a team every year. While it's an element of pride to
> play on a team for your country, it's also a burden to get the team
> organized, clear schedules, get a captain and all the rest every single
> year.
>
> I've suggested this before, as have others, but what if there was a single
> competition: a reconfigured Ryder Cup? (It still has all the cachet. It's
> a "major", while the President's cup is like the WGC-important and rich,
> but not a "major".)
>
> Let's say the US wins the RC in 2010. In 2011 the other two teams who
> don't hold it play for the right to challenge in 2012. Call it the Ryder
> Cup Challenge Matches. Same Ryder branding, look and feel, but involving
> a field that is 50% different from the previous year. If the US wins, the
> two other teams challenge again and so on. Even if the US loses, they
> would participate in Ryder Challenge, keeping the US ket engaged in RC
> competition.
>
> I'm sure there will be resistence, and plenty of reasons not to do it, but
> the President's Cup is lame, and the Ryder Cup leaves too many good
> players out.
>
> --
> Howard U. Dewing
> I made up this name. It was a choice between this and Watson deMehneux.
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Date: 31 Aug 2006 15:46:03
From: Darrell Jefress
Subject: Re: More Ryder Cup changes needed
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"Howard U. Dewing" <sample@sample.net > wrote in message
news:9dDJg.488679$iF6.184837@pd7tw2no...
> I'm sure there will be resistence, and plenty of reasons not to do it,
> but the President's Cup is lame, and the Ryder Cup leaves too many good
> players out.
It sounds like a perfectly reasonable idea, but because it would require
cooperation between the PGA Tour and the PGA of America, it won't fly. In
this case, with the President's Cup effectively disappearing, the Tour folks
have nothing to gain, because the PGAoA knows they're the big kid on the
block in the international team match arena.
DJJ
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Date: 31 Aug 2006 13:32:58
From: John van der Pflum
Subject: Re: More Ryder Cup changes needed
|
On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 15:46:03 GMT, "Darrell Jefress" <evely7@tokyo.com >
wrote:
>
>"Howard U. Dewing" <sample@sample.net> wrote in message
>news:9dDJg.488679$iF6.184837@pd7tw2no...
>
>> I'm sure there will be resistence, and plenty of reasons not to do it,
>> but the President's Cup is lame, and the Ryder Cup leaves too many good
>> players out.
>
>It sounds like a perfectly reasonable idea, but because it would require
>cooperation between the PGA Tour and the PGA of America, it won't fly. In
>this case, with the President's Cup effectively disappearing, the Tour folks
>have nothing to gain, because the PGAoA knows they're the big kid on the
>block in the international team match arena.
>
>DJJ
>
You think the President's Cup is going away? It seemed pretty good
last year and the drama of it coming down to the last match can't do
anything but help it for future years.
--
jvdp
The only way to beat me is to make a hole in one
http://www.rsgcincinnati.com
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Date: 31 Aug 2006 23:20:12
From: Colin Wilson
Subject: Re: More Ryder Cup changes needed
|
John van der Pflum wrote:
> You think the President's Cup is going away? It seemed pretty good
> last year and the drama of it coming down to the last match can't do
> anything but help it for future years.
Interesting that 5 of the top 10 golfers on the world rankings are now
"internationals" (plus 3 USA and 2 European).
--
Cheers
Colin Wilson
------------------------------------------------------------------
Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com
Barnbougle Dunes: http://publishing.kyneton.net.au/barnbougle
------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: 01 Sep 2006 12:18:50
From: Carbon
Subject: Re: Best Major Ever
|
On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 23:39:58 -0400, "R&B" wrote:
> Oh, and I forgot one...
>
> 1992 US Open.
>
> But the drama, for me, anyway, came from thinking about the poor TV
> director who must have been shitting little green men in the television
> production truck while in a deep state of panic he must have been
> feeling when he realized he'd shown only one shot of Colin Montgomerie,
> who looked like he just might have won the US Open by posting a score
> about 90 minutes before the leaders, who were dropping strokes to par
> left and right behind him in Pebble Beach's gale-force winds that
> afternoon.
>
> Tom Kite not only won the US Open that day, but he probably saved that
> TV director's career.
That was interesting. It was a hurricane out there and Jack Nicklaus was
congratulating Montgomerie about winning his first major. I thought he was
going to faint when he heard that. Even if there was more footage of his
round, I think the ratings would have cratered if Kite had fallen behind
like everyone else. Suspense sells, unless it's Tiger in the lead.
It's funny how things work out. Montgomerie was so close all those years
ago. Who would have thought he'd ended up winning -0- in America?
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Date: 31 Aug 2006 18:18:28
From: Darrell Jefress
Subject: Re: More Ryder Cup changes needed
|
"John van der Pflum" <jpflumjr@ughookugh.com > wrote in message
news:t87ef2da2dbtg4r9rlveehbte0e9cl8seg@4ax.com...
> You think the President's Cup is going away? It seemed pretty good
> last year and the drama of it coming down to the last match can't do
> anything but help it for future years.
Boy, I must have written that poorly. No, the PC would go away under
Howard's scenario, replaced with the "pre-Ryder" Cup.
I actually enjoy the PC more than the RC, myself. The "world" team has more
guys that we see every week on TV than the RC has. And it has more of a
"friendly competition" feel to it. Some will prefer that, while some will
prefer the "this is war, you guys suck, we hate you" feel that the Ryder Cup
seems to have every time. (Paging Paul Casey, . . . . )
DJJ
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Date: 31 Aug 2006 18:10:27
From: William A. T. Clark
Subject: Re: More Ryder Cup changes needed
|
In article <UJFJg.1664$mY1.456@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net >,
"Darrell Jefress" <evely7@tokyo.com > wrote:
> "John van der Pflum" <jpflumjr@ughookugh.com> wrote in message
> news:t87ef2da2dbtg4r9rlveehbte0e9cl8seg@4ax.com...
>
> > You think the President's Cup is going away? It seemed pretty good
> > last year and the drama of it coming down to the last match can't do
> > anything but help it for future years.
>
> Boy, I must have written that poorly. No, the PC would go away under
> Howard's scenario, replaced with the "pre-Ryder" Cup.
>
> I actually enjoy the PC more than the RC, myself. The "world" team has more
> guys that we see every week on TV than the RC has. And it has more of a
> "friendly competition" feel to it. Some will prefer that, while some will
> prefer the "this is war, you guys suck, we hate you" feel that the Ryder Cup
> seems to have every time. (Paging Paul Casey, . . . . )
>
> DJJ
Actually, paging Dave Stockton, and those stupid "Desert Storm" hats at
Kiawah Island. Sheesh.
William Clark
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Date: 31 Aug 2006 15:19:49
From: John van der Pflum
Subject: Re: More Ryder Cup changes needed
|
On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 18:18:28 GMT, "Darrell Jefress" <evely7@tokyo.com >
wrote:
>
>"John van der Pflum" <jpflumjr@ughookugh.com> wrote in message
>news:t87ef2da2dbtg4r9rlveehbte0e9cl8seg@4ax.com...
>
>> You think the President's Cup is going away? It seemed pretty good
>> last year and the drama of it coming down to the last match can't do
>> anything but help it for future years.
>
>Boy, I must have written that poorly. No, the PC would go away under
>Howard's scenario, replaced with the "pre-Ryder" Cup.
>
>I actually enjoy the PC more than the RC, myself. The "world" team has more
>guys that we see every week on TV than the RC has. And it has more of a
>"friendly competition" feel to it. Some will prefer that, while some will
>prefer the "this is war, you guys suck, we hate you" feel that the Ryder Cup
>seems to have every time. (Paging Paul Casey, . . . . )
>
>DJJ
>
Ah -- I see. I agree WRT the PC. It seems a lot more like friendly,
VERY SERIOUS, competiion than RC. The kind where I'm going to kick
your ass for 18 holes and then share a laugh and a beer with you
afterwards.
Of course, I love the RC too but only if my team wins. :-)
--
jvdp
The only way to beat me is to make a hole in one
http://www.rsgcincinnati.com
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