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Main
Date: 11 Sep 2006 10:26:57
From: larry
Subject: Lateral Transition move?
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Well, I Gotta start by admitting that I simply am not flexible enough
to make a standard transition. I cannot turn my hips forward WHILE my
shoulders are still turning back and my arms raising. I try and like
about 99% of amateurs I do what everyone my age does-- simply skip the
transition and hit it off my back foot-- sideways about half the time
if I swung hard. This guys is typical of that:
http://www.megspace.com/sports/moetown/videos/ng_infom_amateur3.html
But we MUST make some sort of transition if we want to stop playing
"Army" golf, left, right, left, etc! I agree with Dr. Mann in his
SLAP book and video that it is impossible to hit the ball straight
consistently unless we have moved our weight off our back foot and to
our front foot before the downswing starts. Only then can we swing our
arms in sync with our turning torso--and consistently hit it straight.
The consequence of failing to make a transition to our front leg is
deceleration-- we hit it off our back foot--almost predicting slice or
pull-hook-due to the out-to-in clubhead path. Dr. Mann says no golfer
can be much better than 10 handicap unless his swing includes a
transition-- and that only if he is a magician around the greens--
recovering, recovering, recovering.
BUT, I think there are two distinct types of transition moves-- what
the younger players do is best, of course. Since they are flexible,
they can turn their hips toward the target AS their shoulders are
still turning back and their arms lifting the club--effective "popping
the whip" as their body coil spring unwinds. Thus Tiger and Sergio,
etc. can generate 140MPH clubhead speed. Ideal, but nearly impossible
to learn for late beginners.
However, Allen Doyle has demonstrated that another type of transition
is almost as effective--
http://www.megspace.com/sports/moetown/videos/doyle_clip.html
He moves his hips laterally toward the target as he coils-- and that
combined with a much shorter backswing does essentially the same
thing--. He hits it straight albeit not 300+ yards. I suggest you try
this if you cannot make a standard transition. To feel it just swing
it back horizontally like baseball-- then move your hips forward
(toward the pitcher) and swing. Your hips move sideways as you "step
in a bucket" as taught to baseball batters.
You will still accomplish the same thing-- still hit every ball
straight because your weight has been aggressively moved from your
back to your front foot-before you start your downswing--and your arms
will swing in sync wih your torso-- the ball goes straight.
I do it by telling myself to "go" when my hands are only about waist
high during the backswing. It feels like a baseball swing at a
pitched ball-- but it is sure fun to see every ball going down the
middle of the fairway or hitting greens.
I call it a "lateral transition" and I have been hitting ALL the
fairways and most of the greens. With better putting I will be
knocking on the door of scratch rounds. It works!
Larry
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Date: 14 Sep 2006 09:58:47
From:
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
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larry wrote:
> On 12 Sep 2006 13:51:55 -0700, curtjester@webtv.net wrote:
> >> I agree with Dr. Mann in his
> >> SLAP book and video that it is impossible to hit the ball straight
> >> consistently unless we have moved our weight off our back foot and to
> >> our front foot before the downswing starts. Only then can we swing our
> >> arms in sync with our turning torso--and consistently hit it straight.
> >
> >What does one mean by "to the front foot" when speaking of proper
> >weight shift? It couldn't mean all the weight to the front foot, as
> >all the weight kept of the front foot without going properly to the
> >back foot on the backswing causes the reverse pivot on the downswing's
> >onset. Anyway, I never think about your scenario. I think it tends to
> >happen naturally when one has gotten all the weight properly onto the
> >right leg. Won't just the stored up energy and inertia take one to the
> >front, no matter what you do?
>
> Interestingly, in another forum someone said that k McGuire's golf
> coach had recommended that he keep MOST of his weight on his front leg
> throughout his swing-- and that he still hits it 300+.
>
Sounds like a conservative fix. Think what kind of distance he could
have if he had a little back and forth rythym? I am sure a lot of
people go back weight-wise on their back, and don't quite have the
wherewithal to get back.
> So today I went to the range with ONLY a 3i. I setup normally, a
> wide stance but with nearly all my weight on my front heel (right for
> me since I am lefty). I set my left foot aligned perpendicular to
> the target-- knee oriented toward the ball-- ala Gary Player, but
> again, almost unweighted. I play the ball very forward, just inside
> my front heel.
>
> I made the same swing I have grooved in recent weeks. I try to keep
> my backswing short but I see on video that I actually take my arms
> slightly higher than shoulder height- horizontal- and the club shaft
> goes about 45 degrees past vertical.
>
> Wow! I think these were the best long irons I have ever hit! They
> went long and straight-- and I was making a very very nice divot from
> the ball position toward the target-- 6" or more! I really focus on
> that divot because it is the best diagnostic of a good golf swing. And
> of course I found myself in the classic follow-through pose-- which is
> another indication of a good swing.
>
> I will continue to swing like that-- Keeping weight on the forward
> heel does does make sense because I have read that the most aggressive
> weight shift adds only 5% to clubhead speed-- thus doing that is not
> worth any risk of mishits or swinging out of sync (hitting it
> sideways). There is no doubt that most amateurs experience most of
> their problems when they shift weight back and then cannot recover in
> time to make a synchronized swing. This certainly solves that-- and,
> BTW, the wide stance prevents the reverse pivot.
>
> Larry
>
>
I will just say, that I think that it is a conservative viewpoint for a
result. I think it to be quite a knack to get back to the back, and
keep the weight such that the front still has a little weight to it,
and a swing to match getting their completely. I also think the
lateral transition of the hip is a fix for a non-honed in back and
forth movement.
CJ
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Date: 12 Sep 2006 21:39:08
From: Birdie Bill
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
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larry wrote:
> Well, I Gotta start by admitting that I simply am not flexible enough
> to make a standard transition. I cannot turn my hips forward WHILE my
> shoulders are still turning back and my arms raising. I try and like
> about 99% of amateurs I do what everyone my age does-- simply skip the
> transition and hit it off my back foot-- sideways about half the time
> if I swung hard. This guys is typical of that:
>
> http://www.megspace.com/sports/moetown/videos/ng_infom_amateur3.html
>
> But we MUST make some sort of transition if we want to stop playing
> "Army" golf, left, right, left, etc! I agree with Dr. Mann in his
> SLAP book and video that it is impossible to hit the ball straight
> consistently unless we have moved our weight off our back foot and to
> our front foot before the downswing starts. Only then can we swing our
> arms in sync with our turning torso--and consistently hit it straight.
> The consequence of failing to make a transition to our front leg is
> deceleration-- we hit it off our back foot--almost predicting slice or
> pull-hook-due to the out-to-in clubhead path. Dr. Mann says no golfer
> can be much better than 10 handicap unless his swing includes a
> transition-- and that only if he is a magician around the greens--
> recovering, recovering, recovering.
>
> BUT, I think there are two distinct types of transition moves-- what
> the younger players do is best, of course. Since they are flexible,
> they can turn their hips toward the target AS their shoulders are
> still turning back and their arms lifting the club--effective "popping
> the whip" as their body coil spring unwinds. Thus Tiger and Sergio,
> etc. can generate 140MPH clubhead speed. Ideal, but nearly impossible
> to learn for late beginners.
>
> However, Allen Doyle has demonstrated that another type of transition
> is almost as effective--
>
> http://www.megspace.com/sports/moetown/videos/doyle_clip.html
>
> He moves his hips laterally toward the target as he coils-- and that
> combined with a much shorter backswing does essentially the same
> thing--. He hits it straight albeit not 300+ yards. I suggest you try
> this if you cannot make a standard transition. To feel it just swing
> it back horizontally like baseball-- then move your hips forward
> (toward the pitcher) and swing. Your hips move sideways as you "step
> in a bucket" as taught to baseball batters.
>
> You will still accomplish the same thing-- still hit every ball
> straight because your weight has been aggressively moved from your
> back to your front foot-before you start your downswing--and your arms
> will swing in sync wih your torso-- the ball goes straight.
>
> I do it by telling myself to "go" when my hands are only about waist
> high during the backswing. It feels like a baseball swing at a
> pitched ball-- but it is sure fun to see every ball going down the
> middle of the fairway or hitting greens.
>
> I call it a "lateral transition" and I have been hitting ALL the
> fairways and most of the greens. With better putting I will be
> knocking on the door of scratch rounds. It works!
>
> Larry
Larry,
I don't know what other pro swings you have been looking at on
video, but I just looked at about 10 pro swings, including Woods,
Kite, Couples, Crane, Beck... and in no cases did the hips start
turning forward while the clubhead was still moving back.
They all shifted their hips laterally forward while the clubhead
was still moving back, but in every case the forward hip turn
occurred at the top of the backswing.
If you disagree with this, perhaps you can post a link
of a swing showing what you mean.
I really don't see any difference in this respect with the swing
of Allen Doyle. He starts his lateral shift while the club is
still going back, and then aggressively turns his hips on
the downswing. If you look at impact position, he is in
full 2 cheek position, hips at least 40 degrees open.
The difference I DO see in Doyles swing is that he has
such a wide stance that he never makes it over on top
of his left foot at the end of the swing. That makes the second
Pro golfer that I have seen do that, so I guess that is not
completely fatal.
Whether you are doing what Doyle is doing remains to be
seen.
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Date: 12 Sep 2006 13:51:55
From:
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
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larry wrote:
> Well, I Gotta start by admitting that I simply am not flexible enough
> to make a standard transition. I cannot turn my hips forward WHILE my
> shoulders are still turning back and my arms raising. I try and like
> about 99% of amateurs I do what everyone my age does-- simply skip the
> transition and hit it off my back foot-- sideways about half the time
> if I swung hard. This guys is typical of that:
>
> http://www.megspace.com/sports/moetown/videos/ng_infom_amateur3.html
>
> But we MUST make some sort of transition if we want to stop playing
> "Army" golf, left, right, left, etc!
> I agree with Dr. Mann in his
> SLAP book and video that it is impossible to hit the ball straight
> consistently unless we have moved our weight off our back foot and to
> our front foot before the downswing starts. Only then can we swing our
> arms in sync with our turning torso--and consistently hit it straight.
What does one mean by "to the front foot" when speaking of proper
weight shift? It couldn't mean all the weight to the front foot, as
all the weight kept of the front foot without going properly to the
back foot on the backswing causes the reverse pivot on the downswing's
onset. Anyway, I never think about your scenario. I think it tends to
happen naturally when one has gotten all the weight properly onto the
right leg. Won't just the stored up energy and inertia take one to the
front, no matter what you do?
CJ
> The consequence of failing to make a transition to our front leg is
> deceleration-- we hit it off our back foot--almost predicting slice or
> pull-hook-due to the out-to-in clubhead path. Dr. Mann says no golfer
> can be much better than 10 handicap unless his swing includes a
> transition-- and that only if he is a magician around the greens--
> recovering, recovering, recovering.
>
> BUT, I think there are two distinct types of transition moves-- what
> the younger players do is best, of course. Since they are flexible,
> they can turn their hips toward the target AS their shoulders are
> still turning back and their arms lifting the club--effective "popping
> the whip" as their body coil spring unwinds. Thus Tiger and Sergio,
> etc. can generate 140MPH clubhead speed. Ideal, but nearly impossible
> to learn for late beginners.
>
> However, Allen Doyle has demonstrated that another type of transition
> is almost as effective--
>
> http://www.megspace.com/sports/moetown/videos/doyle_clip.html
>
> He moves his hips laterally toward the target as he coils-- and that
> combined with a much shorter backswing does essentially the same
> thing--. He hits it straight albeit not 300+ yards. I suggest you try
> this if you cannot make a standard transition. To feel it just swing
> it back horizontally like baseball-- then move your hips forward
> (toward the pitcher) and swing. Your hips move sideways as you "step
> in a bucket" as taught to baseball batters.
>
> You will still accomplish the same thing-- still hit every ball
> straight because your weight has been aggressively moved from your
> back to your front foot-before you start your downswing--and your arms
> will swing in sync wih your torso-- the ball goes straight.
>
> I do it by telling myself to "go" when my hands are only about waist
> high during the backswing. It feels like a baseball swing at a
> pitched ball-- but it is sure fun to see every ball going down the
> middle of the fairway or hitting greens.
>
> I call it a "lateral transition" and I have been hitting ALL the
> fairways and most of the greens. With better putting I will be
> knocking on the door of scratch rounds. It works!
>
> Larry
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Date: 12 Sep 2006 16:07:22
From: larry
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
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On 12 Sep 2006 13:51:55 -0700, curtjester@webtv.net wrote:
>> I agree with Dr. Mann in his
>> SLAP book and video that it is impossible to hit the ball straight
>> consistently unless we have moved our weight off our back foot and to
>> our front foot before the downswing starts. Only then can we swing our
>> arms in sync with our turning torso--and consistently hit it straight.
>
>What does one mean by "to the front foot" when speaking of proper
>weight shift? It couldn't mean all the weight to the front foot, as
>all the weight kept of the front foot without going properly to the
>back foot on the backswing causes the reverse pivot on the downswing's
>onset. Anyway, I never think about your scenario. I think it tends to
>happen naturally when one has gotten all the weight properly onto the
>right leg. Won't just the stored up energy and inertia take one to the
>front, no matter what you do?
Interestingly, in another forum someone said that k McGuire's golf
coach had recommended that he keep MOST of his weight on his front leg
throughout his swing-- and that he still hits it 300+.
So today I went to the range with ONLY a 3i. I setup normally, a
wide stance but with nearly all my weight on my front heel (right for
me since I am lefty). I set my left foot aligned perpendicular to
the target-- knee oriented toward the ball-- ala Gary Player, but
again, almost unweighted. I play the ball very forward, just inside
my front heel.
I made the same swing I have grooved in recent weeks. I try to keep
my backswing short but I see on video that I actually take my arms
slightly higher than shoulder height- horizontal- and the club shaft
goes about 45 degrees past vertical.
Wow! I think these were the best long irons I have ever hit! They
went long and straight-- and I was making a very very nice divot from
the ball position toward the target-- 6" or more! I really focus on
that divot because it is the best diagnostic of a good golf swing. And
of course I found myself in the classic follow-through pose-- which is
another indication of a good swing.
I will continue to swing like that-- Keeping weight on the forward
heel does does make sense because I have read that the most aggressive
weight shift adds only 5% to clubhead speed-- thus doing that is not
worth any risk of mishits or swinging out of sync (hitting it
sideways). There is no doubt that most amateurs experience most of
their problems when they shift weight back and then cannot recover in
time to make a synchronized swing. This certainly solves that-- and,
BTW, the wide stance prevents the reverse pivot.
Larry
I
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Date: 12 Sep 2006 12:13:37
From: The Hammer
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
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Rob Davis wrote:
> larry wrote:
> > On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:57:15 GMT, Ernie <ernie@pga.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>If they're just "nits" why do you lean so heavily on them? You say "look
> >>at Allen Doyle, he regularly beats X and Y" and it's *not true*.
> >
> > So what? The persistent inability to discern a useful principle is a
> > sign of low intelligence. You can only pick at trivial details
> > because you are unable to understand the permise. Poor slob. You
> > definitely belong in RSG, however, where the golf discussion is
> > priily irrelevant and useless to serious golfers. There is a very
> > good reason good golfers have abandoned this group-- and those who
> > check in bounce away in only days-- after they see the ubiquitous
> > personal attacks.
> >
> > Larry
>
> The persistent need to exagerate and lie is a sign of low personal
> integrity. You need to support your cockamamie theories with half-truths
> and hyperbole because they are so lame. Poor slob.
>
> Rob
Larry is everything but a slob. He is a very successful
businessperson. Member of a great club. He travels whenever he wants,
plays when he wants. He owns a magnificant home in Southern
California. He is successful in everything he has done and has a
wonderful family behind him Not too bad for a slob. I am sure
this slob has done a lot more in his lifetime, than you could do in
three.
And let us not forget , this "slob" is the King of RSG. You are not
even worthy of scrubbing the King's toilets!
The Hammer
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Date: 12 Sep 2006 12:28:58
From: larry
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
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On 12 Sep 2006 12:13:37 -0700, "The Hammer" <buggertt@yahoo.com >
wrote:
>
>Rob Davis wrote:
>> larry wrote:
>> > On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:57:15 GMT, Ernie <ernie@pga.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>If they're just "nits" why do you lean so heavily on them? You say "look
>> >>at Allen Doyle, he regularly beats X and Y" and it's *not true*.
>> >
>> > So what? The persistent inability to discern a useful principle is a
>> > sign of low intelligence. You can only pick at trivial details
>> > because you are unable to understand the permise. Poor slob. You
>> > definitely belong in RSG, however, where the golf discussion is
>> > priily irrelevant and useless to serious golfers. There is a very
>> > good reason good golfers have abandoned this group-- and those who
>> > check in bounce away in only days-- after they see the ubiquitous
>> > personal attacks.
>> >
>> > Larry
>>
>> The persistent need to exagerate and lie is a sign of low personal
>> integrity. You need to support your cockamamie theories with half-truths
>> and hyperbole because they are so lame. Poor slob.
>>
>> Rob
>
>
>Larry is everything but a slob. He is a very successful
>businessperson. Member of a great club. He travels whenever he wants,
>plays when he wants. He owns a magnificant home in Southern
>California. He is successful in everything he has done and has a
>wonderful family behind him Not too bad for a slob. I am sure
>this slob has done a lot more in his lifetime, than you could do in
>three.
>
>And let us not forget , this "slob" is the King of RSG. You are not
>even worthy of scrubbing the King's toilets!
>
>The Hammer
Thanks Hammer, your accolades are all well deserved and beyond
dispute, of course.
I shouldn't keep forgetting to sign correctly,
Larry (KING of RSG)
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Date: 11 Sep 2006 22:42:54
From: sjh
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
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Howard Brazee wrote:
> On 11 Sep 2006 19:31:01 GMT, stultz@wai.com (Kenny Stultz) wrote:
>
> >It depends. In Virginia, we have military courses designed by Donald Ross and
> >Rober Trent Jones, Sr. There are also a couple that look like they could
> >have been done by Gomer Pyle.
>
> That's not counting elite army bases such as The Presidio in San
> Francisco.
Is Data's head still under there?
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Date: 11 Sep 2006 18:00:07
From: sjh
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
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larry wrote:
> On 11 Sep 2006 16:55:53 -0700, "sjh" <strat68@eudoramail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Kenny Stultz wrote:
> >> In article <1157998048.864436.285070@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,
> >> strat68@eudoramail.com says...
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >someone wrote:
> >> >> "Army" golf, left, right, left, etc!
> >> >
> >> >Speaking of Army... is it standard for most/all military bases to have
> >> >a golf course? If so, is it something Army Engineers design, or do they
> >> >sub real golf architects?
> >> >
> >>
> >> It depends. In Virginia, we have military courses designed by Donald Ross and
> >> Rober Trent Jones, Sr. There are also a couple that look like they could
> >> have been done by Gomer Pyle.
> >
> >Well Golly... speaking of enlisteds, I wonder what the social culture
> >is like?? I.e.. mostly officers, or if not, do they get perferred tee
> >times etc? I bought a book by a Capt. Bruce Ollstein called "Combat
> >Golf." Nice short airplane read, he was at the PGA shop signing them
> >in McCarron airport in Vegas. Heckuva nice guy, his writing appears to
> >be influcenced by Sun Tzu and Zen.
>
> On military golf courses (and other base facilities) there is no
> difference between officers and enlisteds-- that is illegal. The
> federal rules give privileges to "members" without regard to rank.
My only point of references are TV shows and movies, but what about
"Officer Clubs."
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Date: 12 Sep 2006 09:33:04
From: larry
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
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On 11 Sep 2006 18:00:07 -0700, "sjh" <strat68@eudoramail.com > wrote:
>
>larry wrote:
>> On 11 Sep 2006 16:55:53 -0700, "sjh" <strat68@eudoramail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Kenny Stultz wrote:
>> >> In article <1157998048.864436.285070@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,
>> >> strat68@eudoramail.com says...
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >someone wrote:
>> >> >> "Army" golf, left, right, left, etc!
>> >> >
>> >> >Speaking of Army... is it standard for most/all military bases to have
>> >> >a golf course? If so, is it something Army Engineers design, or do they
>> >> >sub real golf architects?
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> It depends. In Virginia, we have military courses designed by Donald Ross and
>> >> Rober Trent Jones, Sr. There are also a couple that look like they could
>> >> have been done by Gomer Pyle.
>> >
>> >Well Golly... speaking of enlisteds, I wonder what the social culture
>> >is like?? I.e.. mostly officers, or if not, do they get perferred tee
>> >times etc? I bought a book by a Capt. Bruce Ollstein called "Combat
>> >Golf." Nice short airplane read, he was at the PGA shop signing them
>> >in McCarron airport in Vegas. Heckuva nice guy, his writing appears to
>> >be influcenced by Sun Tzu and Zen.
>>
>> On military golf courses (and other base facilities) there is no
>> difference between officers and enlisteds-- that is illegal. The
>> federal rules give privileges to "members" without regard to rank.
>
>My only point of references are TV shows and movies, but what about
>"Officer Clubs."
Some bases still have those-- but increasingly the best clubs on the
base are for the officers AND the top enlisted ranks.
larry
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Date: 12 Sep 2006 12:42:48
From: David Sneddon
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
|
larry wrote:
> On 11 Sep 2006 18:00:07 -0700, "sjh" <strat68@eudoramail.com> wrote:
>
>>My only point of references are TV shows and movies, but what about
>>"Officer Clubs."
>
>
> Some bases still have those-- but increasingly the best clubs on the
> base are for the officers AND the top enlisted ranks.
...and the poor squaddie is screwed again....
David
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Date: 11 Sep 2006 17:16:12
From: dsc
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
|
larry wrote:
> Well, I Gotta start by admitting that I simply am not flexible enough
> to make a standard transition. I cannot turn my hips forward WHILE my
> shoulders are still turning back and my arms raising. I try and like
> about 99% of amateurs I do what everyone my age does-- simply skip the
> transition and hit it off my back foot-- sideways about half the time
> if I swung hard. This guys is typical of that:
>
> http://www.megspace.com/sports/moetown/videos/ng_infom_amateur3.html
>
> But we MUST make some sort of transition if we want to stop playing
> "Army" golf, left, right, left, etc! I agree with Dr. Mann in his
> SLAP book and video that it is impossible to hit the ball straight
> consistently unless we have moved our weight off our back foot and to
> our front foot before the downswing starts.
I hat to go agains SLaP because I believve it is very good stuff. But I
played for several years before I took any lessons. One of the first
things the pro did was fix a reverse pivot I never knew I had. At that
time I didn't even know that a reverse pivot was. With that swing I
could hit a driver long and straight with a slight draw. But I could
not do anythingg good with irons... it simply didn't work. Eliminating
the reverse pivot also reversed my problems.
I've since learned to hit iron pretty well (especially the short ones).
But I have constantly struggled with the driver. That's ggolf I guess.
So I'm pretty sure it is not impossible to hit the ball pretty well
with a reverse pivot... at least with some of your clubs. But still,
I'm in favor of eliminating it in most cases.
> Only then can we swing our
> arms in sync with our turning torso--and consistently hit it straight.
> The consequence of failing to make a transition to our front leg is
> deceleration-- we hit it off our back foot--almost predicting slice or
> pull-hook-due to the out-to-in clubhead path.
I can say with some certainty, That I did not decelerate even with the
reverse pivot. I routinely drove greeds in the 270-310 range back them.
> Dr. Mann says no golfer
> can be much better than 10 handicap unless his swing includes a
> transition-- and that only if he is a magician around the greens--
> recovering, recovering, recovering.
I was a bout 14 or 15 handicap at that time. I've been as low as a 7
since eliminating the reverse pivot and am currently att about 10. If I
could keep my drive in play all the time, I'd be a solid 6 to 7
handicap.
>
> BUT, I think there are two distinct types of transition moves-- what
> the younger players do is best, of course. Since they are flexible,
> they can turn their hips toward the target AS their shoulders are
> still turning back and their arms lifting the club--effective "popping
> the whip" as their body coil spring unwinds. Thus Tiger and Sergio,
> etc. can generate 140MPH clubhead speed. Ideal, but nearly impossible
> to learn for late beginners.
>
> However, Allen Doyle has demonstrated that another type of transition
> is almost as effective--
>
> http://www.megspace.com/sports/moetown/videos/doyle_clip.html
>
> He moves his hips laterally toward the target as he coils-- and that
> combined with a much shorter backswing does essentially the same
> thing--. He hits it straight albeit not 300+ yards. I suggest you try
> this if you cannot make a standard transition. To feel it just swing
> it back horizontally like baseball-- then move your hips forward
> (toward the pitcher) and swing. Your hips move sideways as you "step
> in a bucket" as taught to baseball batters.
>
> You will still accomplish the same thing-- still hit every ball
> straight because your weight has been aggressively moved from your
> back to your front foot-before you start your downswing--and your arms
> will swing in sync wih your torso-- the ball goes straight.
>
> I do it by telling myself to "go" when my hands are only about waist
> high during the backswing. It feels like a baseball swing at a
> pitched ball-- but it is sure fun to see every ball going down the
> middle of the fairway or hitting greens.
>
> I call it a "lateral transition" and I have been hitting ALL the
> fairways and most of the greens. With better putting I will be
> knocking on the door of scratch rounds. It works!
>
A top name coach working with k McQuire teaches to put the weight
forward at address and leave it there. McQuire hits it about 300 this
way. As you say, there is more than one way to swing a club and play
this game.
|
| | |
Date: 12 Sep 2006 09:29:07
From: larry
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
|
On 11 Sep 2006 17:16:12 -0700, "dsc" <Dudley.Cornman@eku.edu > wrote:
>larry wrote:
>> Well, I Gotta start by admitting that I simply am not flexible enough
>> to make a standard transition. I cannot turn my hips forward WHILE my
>> shoulders are still turning back and my arms raising. I try and like
>> about 99% of amateurs I do what everyone my age does-- simply skip the
>> transition and hit it off my back foot-- sideways about half the time
>> if I swung hard. This guys is typical of that:
>>
>> http://www.megspace.com/sports/moetown/videos/ng_infom_amateur3.html
>>
>> But we MUST make some sort of transition if we want to stop playing
>> "Army" golf, left, right, left, etc! I agree with Dr. Mann in his
>> SLAP book and video that it is impossible to hit the ball straight
>> consistently unless we have moved our weight off our back foot and to
>> our front foot before the downswing starts.
>
>I hat to go agains SLaP because I believve it is very good stuff. But I
>played for several years before I took any lessons. One of the first
>things the pro did was fix a reverse pivot I never knew I had. At that
>time I didn't even know that a reverse pivot was. With that swing I
>could hit a driver long and straight with a slight draw. But I could
>not do anythingg good with irons... it simply didn't work. Eliminating
>the reverse pivot also reversed my problems.
>I've since learned to hit iron pretty well (especially the short ones).
>But I have constantly struggled with the driver. That's ggolf I guess.
>So I'm pretty sure it is not impossible to hit the ball pretty well
>with a reverse pivot... at least with some of your clubs. But still,
>I'm in favor of eliminating it in most cases.
>
>
>
>
>> Only then can we swing our
>> arms in sync with our turning torso--and consistently hit it straight.
>> The consequence of failing to make a transition to our front leg is
>> deceleration-- we hit it off our back foot--almost predicting slice or
>> pull-hook-due to the out-to-in clubhead path.
>
>I can say with some certainty, That I did not decelerate even with the
>reverse pivot. I routinely drove greeds in the 270-310 range back them.
>
>
>> Dr. Mann says no golfer
>> can be much better than 10 handicap unless his swing includes a
>> transition-- and that only if he is a magician around the greens--
>> recovering, recovering, recovering.
>
>I was a bout 14 or 15 handicap at that time. I've been as low as a 7
>since eliminating the reverse pivot and am currently att about 10. If I
>could keep my drive in play all the time, I'd be a solid 6 to 7
>handicap.
>
>>
>> BUT, I think there are two distinct types of transition moves-- what
>> the younger players do is best, of course. Since they are flexible,
>> they can turn their hips toward the target AS their shoulders are
>> still turning back and their arms lifting the club--effective "popping
>> the whip" as their body coil spring unwinds. Thus Tiger and Sergio,
>> etc. can generate 140MPH clubhead speed. Ideal, but nearly impossible
>> to learn for late beginners.
>>
>> However, Allen Doyle has demonstrated that another type of transition
>> is almost as effective--
>>
>> http://www.megspace.com/sports/moetown/videos/doyle_clip.html
>>
>> He moves his hips laterally toward the target as he coils-- and that
>> combined with a much shorter backswing does essentially the same
>> thing--. He hits it straight albeit not 300+ yards. I suggest you try
>> this if you cannot make a standard transition. To feel it just swing
>> it back horizontally like baseball-- then move your hips forward
>> (toward the pitcher) and swing. Your hips move sideways as you "step
>> in a bucket" as taught to baseball batters.
>>
>> You will still accomplish the same thing-- still hit every ball
>> straight because your weight has been aggressively moved from your
>> back to your front foot-before you start your downswing--and your arms
>> will swing in sync wih your torso-- the ball goes straight.
>>
>> I do it by telling myself to "go" when my hands are only about waist
>> high during the backswing. It feels like a baseball swing at a
>> pitched ball-- but it is sure fun to see every ball going down the
>> middle of the fairway or hitting greens.
>>
>> I call it a "lateral transition" and I have been hitting ALL the
>> fairways and most of the greens. With better putting I will be
>> knocking on the door of scratch rounds. It works!
>>
>
>A top name coach working with k McQuire teaches to put the weight
>forward at address and leave it there. McQuire hits it about 300 this
>way. As you say, there is more than one way to swing a club and play
>this game.
That is actually not a bad idea- because simply leaving our weight
forward promotes swinging the arms in sync with the turning torso--the
club would return to impact at the same angle as address--and the ball
would go straight.
You drive it sideways because you are NOT returning the club to the
ball with the same shaft angle as it left-- your arms are either
leading or lagging your body--your arms are not in sync. I suggest
doing what VJ Singh does, i.e. hold something under your left armpit
(assume right handed) throughout the swing--and keep your right arm
pressed against your rib cage during the address and first few feet of
takeaway.
I do and strongly suggest everyone do Ben Hogan's "L to L" drill
during every warmup. Slowly swing a middle iron with your arms
totally "connected" to your torso-- and feel your turning torso
powering the swing with the club in sync. When you start hitting
balls doing that, they will go straight--until you swing too hard and
lose the sync. See the drill description in his "5 Lessons" book.
There are other straight driving methods-- the most important for me
is to look at something a foot in front of the ball along the target
path-- and swing over that. During fun rounds when a little "cheat"
doesn't matter, try laying a tee there so you can focus on that
instead of the ball-- It makes an amazing difference for many
golfers--
Larry
|
| |
Date: 11 Sep 2006 16:55:53
From: sjh
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
|
Kenny Stultz wrote:
> In article <1157998048.864436.285070@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,
> strat68@eudoramail.com says...
> >
> >
> >someone wrote:
> >> "Army" golf, left, right, left, etc!
> >
> >Speaking of Army... is it standard for most/all military bases to have
> >a golf course? If so, is it something Army Engineers design, or do they
> >sub real golf architects?
> >
>
> It depends. In Virginia, we have military courses designed by Donald Ross and
> Rober Trent Jones, Sr. There are also a couple that look like they could
> have been done by Gomer Pyle.
Well Golly... speaking of enlisteds, I wonder what the social culture
is like?? I.e.. mostly officers, or if not, do they get perferred tee
times etc? I bought a book by a Capt. Bruce Ollstein called "Combat
Golf." Nice short airplane read, he was at the PGA shop signing them
in McCarron airport in Vegas. Heckuva nice guy, his writing appears to
be influcenced by Sun Tzu and Zen.
|
| | |
Date: 11 Sep 2006 17:06:29
From: larry
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
|
On 11 Sep 2006 16:55:53 -0700, "sjh" <strat68@eudoramail.com > wrote:
>
>Kenny Stultz wrote:
>> In article <1157998048.864436.285070@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,
>> strat68@eudoramail.com says...
>> >
>> >
>> >someone wrote:
>> >> "Army" golf, left, right, left, etc!
>> >
>> >Speaking of Army... is it standard for most/all military bases to have
>> >a golf course? If so, is it something Army Engineers design, or do they
>> >sub real golf architects?
>> >
>>
>> It depends. In Virginia, we have military courses designed by Donald Ross and
>> Rober Trent Jones, Sr. There are also a couple that look like they could
>> have been done by Gomer Pyle.
>
>Well Golly... speaking of enlisteds, I wonder what the social culture
>is like?? I.e.. mostly officers, or if not, do they get perferred tee
>times etc? I bought a book by a Capt. Bruce Ollstein called "Combat
>Golf." Nice short airplane read, he was at the PGA shop signing them
>in McCarron airport in Vegas. Heckuva nice guy, his writing appears to
>be influcenced by Sun Tzu and Zen.
On military golf courses (and other base facilities) there is no
difference between officers and enlisteds-- that is illegal. The
federal rules give privileges to "members" without regard to rank.
Larry
|
| | | |
Date: 12 Sep 2006 06:05:58
From: Buford Ressup
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
|
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 17:06:29 -0700, larry wrote:
> On 11 Sep 2006 16:55:53 -0700, "sjh" <strat68@eudoramail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Kenny Stultz wrote:
>>> In article <1157998048.864436.285070@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,
>>> strat68@eudoramail.com says...
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >someone wrote:
>>> >> "Army" golf, left, right, left, etc!
>>> >
>>> >Speaking of Army... is it standard for most/all military bases to
>>> >have a golf course? If so, is it something Army Engineers design, or
>>> >do they sub real golf architects?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> It depends. In Virginia, we have military courses designed by Donald
>>> Ross and Rober Trent Jones, Sr. There are also a couple that look
>>> like they could have been done by Gomer Pyle.
>>
>>Well Golly... speaking of enlisteds, I wonder what the social culture is
>>like?? I.e.. mostly officers, or if not, do they get perferred tee
>>times etc? I bought a book by a Capt. Bruce Ollstein called "Combat
>>Golf." Nice short airplane read, he was at the PGA shop signing them in
>>McCarron airport in Vegas. Heckuva nice guy, his writing appears to be
>>influcenced by Sun Tzu and Zen.
>
> On military golf courses (and other base facilities) there is no
> difference between officers and enlisteds-- that is illegal. The
> federal rules give privileges to "members" without regard to rank.
When the base commander plays at the local Navy base course, the course
clubhouse routinely clear two holes in front of him and two holes behind.
He probably thinks the course is empty every time he plays.
|
| |
Date: 11 Sep 2006 16:44:08
From: sjh
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
|
larry wrote:
> On 11 Sep 2006 11:07:28 -0700, "sjh" <strat68@eudoramail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >someone wrote:
> >> "Army" golf, left, right, left, etc!
> >
> >Speaking of Army... is it standard for most/all military bases to have
> >a golf course? If so, is it something Army Engineers design, or do the
> >sub real golf architects?
>
> Not usually. Military golf courses are flat and often poorly
> maintained--by the civil service workers who do base maintenance. Each
> base sees their golf course as simply another recreational facility
> for the troops. They charge green fees that are sufficient to pay
> the staff salaries. The real estate belongs to you. Your tax money
> at work.
I'm ok with that investment!
|
| |
Date: 11 Sep 2006 15:47:55
From: Fairway
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
|
pete z wrote:
> Fairway wrote:
> > larry wrote:
> > > However, Allen Doyle has demonstrated that another type of transition
> > > is almost as effective--
> > >
> > > http://www.megspace.com/sports/moetown/videos/doyle_clip.html
> > An ugly swing. But - is it effective? How good is this fellow? F
>
> Very good. Look him up on the PGA website. You wish you were that good.
> I certainly do.
Yeah, I sure do. He is 56 years old, driving distance 261 yards. He is
big and strong and can manage the short swing, I guess. Strangely,
he=B4s been a pro for only 11 years. F
|
| |
Date: 11 Sep 2006 15:23:59
From: pete z
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
|
Fairway wrote:
> larry wrote:
> > However, Allen Doyle has demonstrated that another type of transition
> > is almost as effective--
> >
> > http://www.megspace.com/sports/moetown/videos/doyle_clip.html
> An ugly swing. But - is it effective? How good is this fellow? F
Very good. Look him up on the PGA website. You wish you were that good.
I certainly do.
|
| |
Date: 11 Sep 2006 22:18:40
From: DaveB
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
|
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 10:26:57 -0700, larry <larry@deldata.com >
wrote:
>Well, I Gotta start by admitting that I simply am not flexible enough
>to make a standard transition. I cannot turn my hips forward WHILE my
>shoulders are still turning back and my arms raising. I try and like
>about 99% of amateurs I do what everyone my age does-- simply skip the
>transition and hit it off my back foot-- sideways about half the time
>if I swung hard. This guys is typical of that:
>
> http://www.megspace.com/sports/moetown/videos/ng_infom_amateur3.html
>
>But we MUST make some sort of transition if we want to stop playing
>"Army" golf, left, right, left, etc! I agree with Dr. Mann in his
>SLAP book and video that it is impossible to hit the ball straight
>consistently unless we have moved our weight off our back foot and to
>our front foot before the downswing starts. Only then can we swing our
>arms in sync with our turning torso--and consistently hit it straight.
>The consequence of failing to make a transition to our front leg is
>deceleration-- we hit it off our back foot--almost predicting slice or
>pull-hook-due to the out-to-in clubhead path. Dr. Mann says no golfer
>can be much better than 10 handicap unless his swing includes a
>transition-- and that only if he is a magician around the greens--
>recovering, recovering, recovering.
>
>BUT, I think there are two distinct types of transition moves-- what
>the younger players do is best, of course. Since they are flexible,
>they can turn their hips toward the target AS their shoulders are
>still turning back and their arms lifting the club--effective "popping
>the whip" as their body coil spring unwinds. Thus Tiger and Sergio,
>etc. can generate 140MPH clubhead speed. Ideal, but nearly impossible
>to learn for late beginners.
>
>However, Allen Doyle has demonstrated that another type of transition
>is almost as effective--
>
>http://www.megspace.com/sports/moetown/videos/doyle_clip.html
>
>He moves his hips laterally toward the target as he coils-- and that
>combined with a much shorter backswing does essentially the same
>thing--. He hits it straight albeit not 300+ yards. I suggest you try
>this if you cannot make a standard transition. To feel it just swing
>it back horizontally like baseball-- then move your hips forward
>(toward the pitcher) and swing. Your hips move sideways as you "step
>in a bucket" as taught to baseball batters.
>
>You will still accomplish the same thing-- still hit every ball
>straight because your weight has been aggressively moved from your
>back to your front foot-before you start your downswing--and your arms
>will swing in sync wih your torso-- the ball goes straight.
>
>I do it by telling myself to "go" when my hands are only about waist
>high during the backswing. It feels like a baseball swing at a
>pitched ball-- but it is sure fun to see every ball going down the
>middle of the fairway or hitting greens.
>
>I call it a "lateral transition" and I have been hitting ALL the
>fairways and most of the greens. With better putting I will be
>knocking on the door of scratch rounds. It works!
>
>Larry
This is way over my head
Daveb
|
| | |
Date: 11 Sep 2006 22:31:24
From: Alan Baker
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
|
In article <4505e091.1770152@news.dslextreme.com >, (DaveB) wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 10:26:57 -0700, larry <larry@deldata.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Well, I Gotta start by admitting that I simply am not flexible enough
> >to make a standard transition. I cannot turn my hips forward WHILE my
> >shoulders are still turning back and my arms raising. I try and like
> >about 99% of amateurs I do what everyone my age does-- simply skip the
> >transition and hit it off my back foot-- sideways about half the time
> >if I swung hard. This guys is typical of that:
> >
> > http://www.megspace.com/sports/moetown/videos/ng_infom_amateur3.html
> >
> >But we MUST make some sort of transition if we want to stop playing
> >"Army" golf, left, right, left, etc! I agree with Dr. Mann in his
> >SLAP book and video that it is impossible to hit the ball straight
> >consistently unless we have moved our weight off our back foot and to
> >our front foot before the downswing starts. Only then can we swing our
> >arms in sync with our turning torso--and consistently hit it straight.
> >The consequence of failing to make a transition to our front leg is
> >deceleration-- we hit it off our back foot--almost predicting slice or
> >pull-hook-due to the out-to-in clubhead path. Dr. Mann says no golfer
> >can be much better than 10 handicap unless his swing includes a
> >transition-- and that only if he is a magician around the greens--
> >recovering, recovering, recovering.
> >
> >BUT, I think there are two distinct types of transition moves-- what
> >the younger players do is best, of course. Since they are flexible,
> >they can turn their hips toward the target AS their shoulders are
> >still turning back and their arms lifting the club--effective "popping
> >the whip" as their body coil spring unwinds. Thus Tiger and Sergio,
> >etc. can generate 140MPH clubhead speed. Ideal, but nearly impossible
> >to learn for late beginners.
> >
> >However, Allen Doyle has demonstrated that another type of transition
> >is almost as effective--
> >
> >http://www.megspace.com/sports/moetown/videos/doyle_clip.html
> >
> >He moves his hips laterally toward the target as he coils-- and that
> >combined with a much shorter backswing does essentially the same
> >thing--. He hits it straight albeit not 300+ yards. I suggest you try
> >this if you cannot make a standard transition. To feel it just swing
> >it back horizontally like baseball-- then move your hips forward
> >(toward the pitcher) and swing. Your hips move sideways as you "step
> >in a bucket" as taught to baseball batters.
> >
> >You will still accomplish the same thing-- still hit every ball
> >straight because your weight has been aggressively moved from your
> >back to your front foot-before you start your downswing--and your arms
> >will swing in sync wih your torso-- the ball goes straight.
> >
> >I do it by telling myself to "go" when my hands are only about waist
> >high during the backswing. It feels like a baseball swing at a
> >pitched ball-- but it is sure fun to see every ball going down the
> >middle of the fairway or hitting greens.
> >
> >I call it a "lateral transition" and I have been hitting ALL the
> >fairways and most of the greens. With better putting I will be
> >knocking on the door of scratch rounds. It works!
> >
> >Larry
>
>
> This is way over my head
> Daveb
I'll help to translate:
Larry: "After bragging for weeks about how I've got it, I *still*
haven't got it"
--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
sit in the bottom of that cupboard."
|
| | | |
Date: 12 Sep 2006 00:03:23
From: DaveB
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
|
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 22:31:24 GMT, Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net >
wrote:
>In article <4505e091.1770152@news.dslextreme.com>, (DaveB) wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 10:26:57 -0700, larry <larry@deldata.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Well, I Gotta start by admitting that I simply am not flexible enough
>> >to make a standard transition. I cannot turn my hips forward WHILE my
>> >shoulders are still turning back and my arms raising. I try and like
>> >about 99% of amateurs I do what everyone my age does-- simply skip the
>> >transition and hit it off my back foot-- sideways about half the time
>> >if I swung hard. This guys is typical of that:
>> >
>> > http://www.megspace.com/sports/moetown/videos/ng_infom_amateur3.html
>> >
>> >But we MUST make some sort of transition if we want to stop playing
>> >"Army" golf, left, right, left, etc! I agree with Dr. Mann in his
>> >SLAP book and video that it is impossible to hit the ball straight
>> >consistently unless we have moved our weight off our back foot and to
>> >our front foot before the downswing starts. Only then can we swing our
>> >arms in sync with our turning torso--and consistently hit it straight.
>> >The consequence of failing to make a transition to our front leg is
>> >deceleration-- we hit it off our back foot--almost predicting slice or
>> >pull-hook-due to the out-to-in clubhead path. Dr. Mann says no golfer
>> >can be much better than 10 handicap unless his swing includes a
>> >transition-- and that only if he is a magician around the greens--
>> >recovering, recovering, recovering.
>> >
>> >BUT, I think there are two distinct types of transition moves-- what
>> >the younger players do is best, of course. Since they are flexible,
>> >they can turn their hips toward the target AS their shoulders are
>> >still turning back and their arms lifting the club--effective "popping
>> >the whip" as their body coil spring unwinds. Thus Tiger and Sergio,
>> >etc. can generate 140MPH clubhead speed. Ideal, but nearly impossible
>> >to learn for late beginners.
>> >
>> >However, Allen Doyle has demonstrated that another type of transition
>> >is almost as effective--
>> >
>> >http://www.megspace.com/sports/moetown/videos/doyle_clip.html
>> >
>> >He moves his hips laterally toward the target as he coils-- and that
>> >combined with a much shorter backswing does essentially the same
>> >thing--. He hits it straight albeit not 300+ yards. I suggest you try
>> >this if you cannot make a standard transition. To feel it just swing
>> >it back horizontally like baseball-- then move your hips forward
>> >(toward the pitcher) and swing. Your hips move sideways as you "step
>> >in a bucket" as taught to baseball batters.
>> >
>> >You will still accomplish the same thing-- still hit every ball
>> >straight because your weight has been aggressively moved from your
>> >back to your front foot-before you start your downswing--and your arms
>> >will swing in sync wih your torso-- the ball goes straight.
>> >
>> >I do it by telling myself to "go" when my hands are only about waist
>> >high during the backswing. It feels like a baseball swing at a
>> >pitched ball-- but it is sure fun to see every ball going down the
>> >middle of the fairway or hitting greens.
>> >
>> >I call it a "lateral transition" and I have been hitting ALL the
>> >fairways and most of the greens. With better putting I will be
>> >knocking on the door of scratch rounds. It works!
>> >
>> >Larry
>>
>>
>> This is way over my head
>> Daveb
>
>I'll help to translate:
>
>Larry: "After bragging for weeks about how I've got it, I *still*
>haven't got it"
>
>--
>Alan Baker
>Vancouver, British Columbia
>"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
>to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
>sit in the bottom of that cupboard."
'Thanks! that's what I thought it meant.
Regards
Daveb
|
| |
Date: 11 Sep 2006 15:20:31
From: pete z
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
|
Kenny Stultz wrote:
> In article <1157998048.864436.285070@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,
> strat68@eudoramail.com says...
> >
> >
> >someone wrote:
> >> "Army" golf, left, right, left, etc!
> >
> >Speaking of Army... is it standard for most/all military bases to have
> >a golf course? If so, is it something Army Engineers design, or do the
> >sub real golf architects?
> >
>
> It depends. In Virginia, we have military courses designed by Donald Ross and
> Rober Trent Jones, Sr. There are also a couple that look like they could
> have been done by Gomer Pyle.
>
> Kenny
>
> --
> Kenny Stultz - Troll and SPAM intolerant
> "Golf is the only sport where a precise knowledge of the Rules can
> earn one a reputation for bad sportsmanship"
I played the Medal of Honor course at Quantico, one of the nicest
courses I ever played.
Also, the Fort Ord courses in Ca. are spectacular, but they have been
sold to the city.
Eagle Glen in Alaska is a Trent Jones design. I hope to get there to
make it my 50th state.
|
| |
Date: 11 Sep 2006 14:28:17
From: Fairway
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
|
larry wrote:
> However, Allen Doyle has demonstrated that another type of transition
> is almost as effective--
>
> http://www.megspace.com/sports/moetown/videos/doyle_clip.html
An ugly swing. But - is it effective? How good is this fellow? F
|
| | |
Date: 11 Sep 2006 17:03:35
From: larry
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
|
On 11 Sep 2006 14:28:17 -0700, "Fairway" <arminsson@yahoo.com > wrote:
>
>larry wrote:
>> However, Allen Doyle has demonstrated that another type of transition
>> is almost as effective--
>>
>> http://www.megspace.com/sports/moetown/videos/doyle_clip.html
>An ugly swing. But - is it effective? How good is this fellow? F
Only the best on the Champion's Tour. I think he was the leading
money winner this year-- Routinely beats Tom Watson, Craig Stadler,
Hale Irwin, Ben Crenshaw, Tom Kite, and dozens of others in that
class.
Larry
|
| | | |
Date: 12 Sep 2006 00:23:22
From: Ernie
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
|
In article <v7ubg29ehvs4fs1tkqv08uv4c0bn06i6cl@4ax.com >,
larry <larry@deldata.com > wrote:
> On 11 Sep 2006 14:28:17 -0700, "Fairway" <arminsson@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >larry wrote:
> >> However, Allen Doyle has demonstrated that another type of transition
> >> is almost as effective--
> >>
> >> http://www.megspace.com/sports/moetown/videos/doyle_clip.html
> >An ugly swing. But - is it effective? How good is this fellow? F
>
> Only the best on the Champion's Tour. I think he was the leading
> money winner this year-- Routinely beats Tom Watson, Craig Stadler,
> Hale Irwin, Ben Crenshaw, Tom Kite, and dozens of others in that
> class.
>
> Larry
"Only the best"? You "think"?
Would it surprise you to discover that what you "think" is -- once again
-- completely at odds with reality?
http://pgatour.com/stats/leaders/s/2006/109
*Ninth* is not "best", nor is it "leading money winner".
And if he routinely beats Tom Watson, how is that Watson has nearly 90%
of Doyle's earnings from slightly more than half as many events?
And Tom Kite: Tom Kite is fifth on the money list with precisely the
same number of events played.
|
| | | | |
Date: 12 Sep 2006 09:32:04
From: larry
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
|
On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 00:23:22 GMT, Ernie <ernie@pga.org > wrote:
>
>Would it surprise you to discover that what you "think" is -- once again
>-- completely at odds with reality?
Why do "nits" matter to you? I don't know nor care about such
details-- The important fact is that Allen Doyle's swing is extremely
successful, and a method many older late beginners can learn
from--can't you just let it go? Whew! Another RSG nutcase.
Larry
|
| | | | | |
Date: 12 Sep 2006 16:57:15
From: Ernie
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
|
In article <54odg2dlmfvhr5m1agkt1tdragc2kqua8e@4ax.com >,
larry <larry@deldata.com > wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 00:23:22 GMT, Ernie <ernie@pga.org> wrote:
> >
> >Would it surprise you to discover that what you "think" is -- once again
> >-- completely at odds with reality?
>
> Why do "nits" matter to you? I don't know nor care about such
> details-- The important fact is that Allen Doyle's swing is extremely
> successful, and a method many older late beginners can learn
> from--can't you just let it go? Whew! Another RSG nutcase.
>
> Larry
If they're just "nits" why do you lean so heavily on them? You say "look
at Allen Doyle, he regularly beats X and Y" and it's *not true*.
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 12 Sep 2006 10:51:07
From: larry
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
|
On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:57:15 GMT, Ernie <ernie@pga.org > wrote:
>In article <54odg2dlmfvhr5m1agkt1tdragc2kqua8e@4ax.com>,
> larry <larry@deldata.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 00:23:22 GMT, Ernie <ernie@pga.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >Would it surprise you to discover that what you "think" is -- once again
>> >-- completely at odds with reality?
>>
>> Why do "nits" matter to you? I don't know nor care about such
>> details-- The important fact is that Allen Doyle's swing is extremely
>> successful, and a method many older late beginners can learn
>> from--can't you just let it go? Whew! Another RSG nutcase.
>>
>> Larry
>
>If they're just "nits" why do you lean so heavily on them? You say "look
>at Allen Doyle, he regularly beats X and Y" and it's *not true*.
So what? The persistent inability to discern a useful principle is a
sign of low intelligence. You can only pick at trivial details
because you are unable to understand the permise. Poor slob. You
definitely belong in RSG, however, where the golf discussion is
priily irrelevant and useless to serious golfers. There is a very
good reason good golfers have abandoned this group-- and those who
check in bounce away in only days-- after they see the ubiquitous
personal attacks.
Larry
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 13 Sep 2006 10:36:32
From: Gene Littler
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
|
"larry" <larry@deldata.com > wrote in message
news:5ksdg25u8usnlu7cjtq00uae949pfqlktc@4ax.com...
>>> Why do "nits" matter to you? I don't know nor care about such
>>> details-- The important fact is that Allen Doyle's swing is extremely
>>> successful, and a method many older late beginners can learn
>>> from--can't you just let it go? Whew! Another RSG nutcase.
>>>
>>> Larry
>>
>>If they're just "nits" why do you lean so heavily on them? You say "look
>>at Allen Doyle, he regularly beats X and Y" and it's *not true*.
>
> So what? The persistent inability to discern a useful principle is a
> sign of low intelligence. You can only pick at trivial details
> because you are unable to understand the permise.
The premise being that Larry tells a different story every day and nobody is
supposed to notice it.
> Poor slob. You
> definitely belong in RSG, however, where the golf discussion is
> priily irrelevant and useless to serious golfers. There is a very
> good reason good golfers have abandoned this group-- and those who
> check in bounce away in only days-- after they see the ubiquitous
> personal attacks.
>
> Larry
I haven't abandoned this group.
Gene Littler
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 13 Sep 2006 05:23:37
From: Ernie
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
|
In article <5ksdg25u8usnlu7cjtq00uae949pfqlktc@4ax.com >,
larry <larry@deldata.com > wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:57:15 GMT, Ernie <ernie@pga.org> wrote:
>
> >In article <54odg2dlmfvhr5m1agkt1tdragc2kqua8e@4ax.com>,
> > larry <larry@deldata.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 00:23:22 GMT, Ernie <ernie@pga.org> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >Would it surprise you to discover that what you "think" is -- once again
> >> >-- completely at odds with reality?
> >>
> >> Why do "nits" matter to you? I don't know nor care about such
> >> details-- The important fact is that Allen Doyle's swing is extremely
> >> successful, and a method many older late beginners can learn
> >> from--can't you just let it go? Whew! Another RSG nutcase.
> >>
> >> Larry
> >
> >If they're just "nits" why do you lean so heavily on them? You say "look
> >at Allen Doyle, he regularly beats X and Y" and it's *not true*.
>
> So what? The persistent inability to discern a useful principle is a
> sign of low intelligence. You can only pick at trivial details
> because you are unable to understand the permise. Poor slob. You
> definitely belong in RSG, however, where the golf discussion is
> priily irrelevant and useless to serious golfers. There is a very
> good reason good golfers have abandoned this group-- and those who
> check in bounce away in only days-- after they see the ubiquitous
> personal attacks.
>
> Larry
Funny. They don't seem trivial to *you* when you're leaning on them to
support your point.
Allen Doyle has a quirky swing that works for him. Bravo. So does Jim
Furyk, but the fact remains that the vast majority of the most
successful golfers in the world *don't* swing like that. Why doesn't it
make sense to emulate what works for *them*, rather than what works for
the anomalies, the outliers?
Explain, if you can.
As for good golfers, I'm already a better golfer than you, despite
having a higher handicap. I think your handicap as reported is a bunch
of nonsense.
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 12 Sep 2006 19:07:05
From: Rob Davis
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
|
larry wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:57:15 GMT, Ernie <ernie@pga.org> wrote:
>>
>>If they're just "nits" why do you lean so heavily on them? You say "look
>>at Allen Doyle, he regularly beats X and Y" and it's *not true*.
>
> So what? The persistent inability to discern a useful principle is a
> sign of low intelligence. You can only pick at trivial details
> because you are unable to understand the permise. Poor slob. You
> definitely belong in RSG, however, where the golf discussion is
> priily irrelevant and useless to serious golfers. There is a very
> good reason good golfers have abandoned this group-- and those who
> check in bounce away in only days-- after they see the ubiquitous
> personal attacks.
>
> Larry
The persistent need to exagerate and lie is a sign of low personal
integrity. You need to support your cockamamie theories with half-truths
and hyperbole because they are so lame. Poor slob.
Rob
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 12 Sep 2006 12:26:12
From: larry
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
|
On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 19:07:05 GMT, Rob Davis <davis.rob@verizon.net >
wrote:
>larry wrote:
>> On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:57:15 GMT, Ernie <ernie@pga.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>If they're just "nits" why do you lean so heavily on them? You say "look
>>>at Allen Doyle, he regularly beats X and Y" and it's *not true*.
>>
>> So what? The persistent inability to discern a useful principle is a
>> sign of low intelligence. You can only pick at trivial details
>> because you are unable to understand the permise. Poor slob. You
>> definitely belong in RSG, however, where the golf discussion is
>> priily irrelevant and useless to serious golfers. There is a very
>> good reason good golfers have abandoned this group-- and those who
>> check in bounce away in only days-- after they see the ubiquitous
>> personal attacks.
>>
>> Larry
>
>The persistent need to exagerate and lie is a sign of low personal
>integrity. You need to support your cockamamie theories with half-truths
>and hyperbole because they are so lame. Poor slob.
I espouse my "theories" after I have proven they work in practice--
and usually after asking a pro whether they are sound. Only a fool
refuses something of value offered for free.
larry
|
| | | | | | | | | |
Date: 12 Sep 2006 22:35:40
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
|
On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:26:12 -0700, larry <larry@deldata.com >
wrote:
>I espouse my "theories" after I have proven they work in practice--
>and usually after asking a pro whether they are sound. Only a fool
>refuses something of value offered for free.
All kinds of advice have been offered on this newsgroup. Have you
accepted all of it?
|
| | | | | | | | | |
Date: 12 Sep 2006 20:07:13
From: Rob Davis
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
|
larry wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 19:07:05 GMT, Rob Davis <davis.rob@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>larry wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:57:15 GMT, Ernie <ernie@pga.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>>If they're just "nits" why do you lean so heavily on them? You say "look
>>>>at Allen Doyle, he regularly beats X and Y" and it's *not true*.
>>>
>>>So what? The persistent inability to discern a useful principle is a
>>>sign of low intelligence. You can only pick at trivial details
>>>because you are unable to understand the permise. Poor slob. You
>>>definitely belong in RSG, however, where the golf discussion is
>>>priily irrelevant and useless to serious golfers. There is a very
>>>good reason good golfers have abandoned this group-- and those who
>>>check in bounce away in only days-- after they see the ubiquitous
>>>personal attacks.
>>>
>>>Larry
>>
>>The persistent need to exagerate and lie is a sign of low personal
>>integrity. You need to support your cockamamie theories with half-truths
>>and hyperbole because they are so lame. Poor slob.
>
>
> I espouse my "theories" after I have proven they work in practice--
> and usually after asking a pro whether they are sound. Only a fool
> refuses something of value offered for free.
>
> larry
More exaggerations and lies. Only a fool would claim to have found the
"secret" to golf ... except maybe Hogan 8^).
Rob
|
| | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 12 Sep 2006 13:24:59
From: larry
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
|
On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 20:07:13 GMT, Rob Davis <davis.rob@verizon.net >
wrote:
>larry wrote:
>> On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 19:07:05 GMT, Rob Davis <davis.rob@verizon.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>larry wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:57:15 GMT, Ernie <ernie@pga.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>If they're just "nits" why do you lean so heavily on them? You say "look
>>>>>at Allen Doyle, he regularly beats X and Y" and it's *not true*.
>>>>
>>>>So what? The persistent inability to discern a useful principle is a
>>>>sign of low intelligence. You can only pick at trivial details
>>>>because you are unable to understand the permise. Poor slob. You
>>>>definitely belong in RSG, however, where the golf discussion is
>>>>priily irrelevant and useless to serious golfers. There is a very
>>>>good reason good golfers have abandoned this group-- and those who
>>>>check in bounce away in only days-- after they see the ubiquitous
>>>>personal attacks.
>>>>
>>>>Larry
>>>
>>>The persistent need to exagerate and lie is a sign of low personal
>>>integrity. You need to support your cockamamie theories with half-truths
>>>and hyperbole because they are so lame. Poor slob.
>>
>>
>> I espouse my "theories" after I have proven they work in practice--
>> and usually after asking a pro whether they are sound. Only a fool
>> refuses something of value offered for free.
>>
>> larry
>
>More exaggerations and lies. Only a fool would claim to have found the
>"secret" to golf ... except maybe Hogan 8^).
>
>Rob
Lets see. I say "imitate Allen Doyle" and provide a clip of his
swing-- and you say I am exaggerating and lying. I say I imitate
Allen Doyle and that I am playing better than ever, and you say I am
exaggerating and lying. And even though I said nothing of the kind,
you say I said I found "the secret."
Who has the truth problem?
Larry (KING of RSG)
|
| | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 13 Sep 2006 05:24:57
From: Ernie
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
|
In article <sk5eg2demne5qqr9jqafl0eo7u6p640292@4ax.com >,
larry <larry@deldata.com > wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 20:07:13 GMT, Rob Davis <davis.rob@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
> >larry wrote:
> >> On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 19:07:05 GMT, Rob Davis <davis.rob@verizon.net>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>larry wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:57:15 GMT, Ernie <ernie@pga.org> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>If they're just "nits" why do you lean so heavily on them? You say "look
> >>>>>at Allen Doyle, he regularly beats X and Y" and it's *not true*.
> >>>>
> >>>>So what? The persistent inability to discern a useful principle is a
> >>>>sign of low intelligence. You can only pick at trivial details
> >>>>because you are unable to understand the permise. Poor slob. You
> >>>>definitely belong in RSG, however, where the golf discussion is
> >>>>priily irrelevant and useless to serious golfers. There is a very
> >>>>good reason good golfers have abandoned this group-- and those who
> >>>>check in bounce away in only days-- after they see the ubiquitous
> >>>>personal attacks.
> >>>>
> >>>>Larry
> >>>
> >>>The persistent need to exagerate and lie is a sign of low personal
> >>>integrity. You need to support your cockamamie theories with half-truths
> >>>and hyperbole because they are so lame. Poor slob.
> >>
> >>
> >> I espouse my "theories" after I have proven they work in practice--
> >> and usually after asking a pro whether they are sound. Only a fool
> >> refuses something of value offered for free.
> >>
> >> larry
> >
> >More exaggerations and lies. Only a fool would claim to have found the
> >"secret" to golf ... except maybe Hogan 8^).
> >
> >Rob
>
> Lets see. I say "imitate Allen Doyle" and provide a clip of his
> swing-- and you say I am exaggerating and lying. I say I imitate
> Allen Doyle and that I am playing better than ever, and you say I am
> exaggerating and lying. And even though I said nothing of the kind,
> you say I said I found "the secret."
>
> Who has the truth problem?
>
> Larry (KING of RSG)
You say "imitate the one golfer in a hundred" rather than imitate the
other 99.
|
| | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 13 Sep 2006 05:24:33
From: Alan Baker
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
|
In article <sk5eg2demne5qqr9jqafl0eo7u6p640292@4ax.com >,
larry <larry@deldata.com > wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 20:07:13 GMT, Rob Davis <davis.rob@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
> >larry wrote:
> >> On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 19:07:05 GMT, Rob Davis <davis.rob@verizon.net>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>larry wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:57:15 GMT, Ernie <ernie@pga.org> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>If they're just "nits" why do you lean so heavily on them? You say "look
> >>>>>at Allen Doyle, he regularly beats X and Y" and it's *not true*.
> >>>>
> >>>>So what? The persistent inability to discern a useful principle is a
> >>>>sign of low intelligence. You can only pick at trivial details
> >>>>because you are unable to understand the permise. Poor slob. You
> >>>>definitely belong in RSG, however, where the golf discussion is
> >>>>priily irrelevant and useless to serious golfers. There is a very
> >>>>good reason good golfers have abandoned this group-- and those who
> >>>>check in bounce away in only days-- after they see the ubiquitous
> >>>>personal attacks.
> >>>>
> >>>>Larry
> >>>
> >>>The persistent need to exagerate and lie is a sign of low personal
> >>>integrity. You need to support your cockamamie theories with half-truths
> >>>and hyperbole because they are so lame. Poor slob.
> >>
> >>
> >> I espouse my "theories" after I have proven they work in practice--
> >> and usually after asking a pro whether they are sound. Only a fool
> >> refuses something of value offered for free.
> >>
> >> larry
> >
> >More exaggerations and lies. Only a fool would claim to have found the
> >"secret" to golf ... except maybe Hogan 8^).
> >
> >Rob
>
> Lets see. I say "imitate Allen Doyle" and provide a clip of his
> swing-- and you say I am exaggerating and lying. I say I imitate
> Allen Doyle and that I am playing better than ever, and you say I am
> exaggerating and lying. And even though I said nothing of the kind,
> you say I said I found "the secret."
>
> Who has the truth problem?
>
> Larry (KING of RSG)
You say "imitate the one golfer in a hundred" rather than imitate the
other 99.
--
'Your quote of me shows me saying "no new Macs," not "no upgrades."
Your upgrades are too insignificant to qualify those as "new Macs."'
'It's obvious to all that my predictions were wrong. Shall I also
admit the sky is blue?'
'Isn't it funny that Final Cut Pro is nowhere to be seen at Pixar? They're
an all PC shop. '
|
| | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 13 Sep 2006 02:04:04
From: Rob Davis
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
|
larry wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 20:07:13 GMT, Rob Davis <davis.rob@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>larry wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 19:07:05 GMT, Rob Davis <davis.rob@verizon.net>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>larry wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:57:15 GMT, Ernie <ernie@pga.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>If they're just "nits" why do you lean so heavily on them? You say "look
>>>>>>at Allen Doyle, he regularly beats X and Y" and it's *not true*.
>>>>>
>>>>>So what? The persistent inability to discern a useful principle is a
>>>>>sign of low intelligence. You can only pick at trivial details
>>>>>because you are unable to understand the permise. Poor slob. You
>>>>>definitely belong in RSG, however, where the golf discussion is
>>>>>priily irrelevant and useless to serious golfers. There is a very
>>>>>good reason good golfers have abandoned this group-- and those who
>>>>>check in bounce away in only days-- after they see the ubiquitous
>>>>>personal attacks.
>>>>>
>>>>>Larry
>>>>
>>>>The persistent need to exagerate and lie is a sign of low personal
>>>>integrity. You need to support your cockamamie theories with half-truths
>>>>and hyperbole because they are so lame. Poor slob.
>>>
>>>
>>>I espouse my "theories" after I have proven they work in practice--
>>>and usually after asking a pro whether they are sound. Only a fool
>>>refuses something of value offered for free.
>>>
>>>larry
>>
>>More exaggerations and lies. Only a fool would claim to have found the
>>"secret" to golf ... except maybe Hogan 8^).
>>
>>Rob
>
>
> Lets see. I say "imitate Allen Doyle" and provide a clip of his
> swing-- and you say I am exaggerating and lying. I say I imitate
> Allen Doyle and that I am playing better than ever, and you say I am
> exaggerating and lying. And even though I said nothing of the kind,
> you say I said I found "the secret."
>
> Who has the truth problem?
>
> Larry (KING of RSG)
>
>
Lets see. You say we all should "imitate Allen Doyle", and then you say
that you post your advice "after asking a pro whether they are sound". I
don't believe any pro would say we should imitate Allen Doyle's swing
... I'd be very interested for you to have the pro who agreed with this
to post here and say exactly that.
You have many times in the past posted about "the secret". I believe I'm
correctly quoting your previous posts and would be glad to refresh your
memory if necessary.
Rob
|
| |
Date: 11 Sep 2006 20:54:06
From: Alan Baker
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
|
In article <bs6bg250cgme0oleacnvfkiafmj0jb2v7s@4ax.com >,
larry <larry@deldata.com > wrote:
> Well, I Gotta start by admitting that I simply am not flexible enough
> to make a standard transition. I cannot turn my hips forward WHILE my
> shoulders are still turning back and my arms raising. I try and like
> about 99% of amateurs I do what everyone my age does-- simply skip the
> transition and hit it off my back foot-- sideways about half the time
> if I swung hard. This guys is typical of that:
>
> http://www.megspace.com/sports/moetown/videos/ng_infom_amateur3.html
>
> But we MUST make some sort of transition if we want to stop playing
> "Army" golf, left, right, left, etc! I agree with Dr. Mann in his
> SLAP book and video that it is impossible to hit the ball straight
> consistently unless we have moved our weight off our back foot and to
> our front foot before the downswing starts. Only then can we swing our
> arms in sync with our turning torso--and consistently hit it straight.
> The consequence of failing to make a transition to our front leg is
> deceleration-- we hit it off our back foot--almost predicting slice or
> pull-hook-due to the out-to-in clubhead path. Dr. Mann says no golfer
> can be much better than 10 handicap unless his swing includes a
> transition-- and that only if he is a magician around the greens--
> recovering, recovering, recovering.
>
> BUT, I think there are two distinct types of transition moves-- what
> the younger players do is best, of course. Since they are flexible,
> they can turn their hips toward the target AS their shoulders are
> still turning back and their arms lifting the club--effective "popping
> the whip" as their body coil spring unwinds. Thus Tiger and Sergio,
> etc. can generate 140MPH clubhead speed. Ideal, but nearly impossible
> to learn for late beginners.
>
> However, Allen Doyle has demonstrated that another type of transition
> is almost as effective--
>
> http://www.megspace.com/sports/moetown/videos/doyle_clip.html
>
> He moves his hips laterally toward the target as he coils-- and that
> combined with a much shorter backswing does essentially the same
> thing--. He hits it straight albeit not 300+ yards. I suggest you try
> this if you cannot make a standard transition. To feel it just swing
> it back horizontally like baseball-- then move your hips forward
> (toward the pitcher) and swing. Your hips move sideways as you "step
> in a bucket" as taught to baseball batters.
>
> You will still accomplish the same thing-- still hit every ball
> straight because your weight has been aggressively moved from your
> back to your front foot-before you start your downswing--and your arms
> will swing in sync wih your torso-- the ball goes straight.
>
> I do it by telling myself to "go" when my hands are only about waist
> high during the backswing. It feels like a baseball swing at a
> pitched ball-- but it is sure fun to see every ball going down the
> middle of the fairway or hitting greens.
>
> I call it a "lateral transition" and I have been hitting ALL the
> fairways and most of the greens. With better putting I will be
> knocking on the door of scratch rounds. It works!
>
> Larry
So since you tell us of every single thing that improves your game
(insisting that each one is *the* secret to good golf), you must have
been lying two weeks ago when you were telling us you were hitting "ALL
the fairways" by not thinking about all that "mechanical crap", right?
--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
sit in the bottom of that cupboard."
|
| |
Date: 11 Sep 2006 18:56:39
From: Rob Davis
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
|
That's *way* too complicated ... you'll never be any good thinking about
all that crap. Just "swing the clubhead" like Ernest Jones says ... it's
not rocket science ... duh! My buddy Gene Littler is a former pro and he
never thinks of any of that mechanical crap.
Rob
larry wrote:
> But we MUST make some sort of transition if we want to stop playing
> "Army" golf, left, right, left, etc! I agree with Dr. Mann in his
> SLAP book and video that it is impossible to hit the ball straight
> consistently unless we have moved our weight off our back foot and to
> our front foot before the downswing starts. Only then can we swing our
> arms in sync with our turning torso--and consistently hit it straight.
> The consequence of failing to make a transition to our front leg is
> deceleration-- we hit it off our back foot--almost predicting slice or
> pull-hook-due to the out-to-in clubhead path. Dr. Mann says no golfer
> can be much better than 10 handicap unless his swing includes a
> transition-- and that only if he is a magician around the greens--
> recovering, recovering, recovering.
>
> Larry
|
| | |
Date: 11 Sep 2006 12:20:13
From: larry
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
|
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 18:56:39 GMT, Rob Davis <davis.rob@verizon.net >
wrote:
>
>That's *way* too complicated ... you'll never be any good thinking about
>all that crap. Just "swing the clubhead" like Ernest Jones says ... it's
>not rocket science ... duh! My buddy Gene Littler is a former pro and he
>never thinks of any of that mechanical crap.
>
>Rob
>
>larry wrote:
>> But we MUST make some sort of transition if we want to stop playing
>> "Army" golf, left, right, left, etc! I agree with Dr. Mann in his
>> SLAP book and video that it is impossible to hit the ball straight
>> consistently unless we have moved our weight off our back foot and to
>> our front foot before the downswing starts. Only then can we swing our
>> arms in sync with our turning torso--and consistently hit it straight.
>> The consequence of failing to make a transition to our front leg is
>> deceleration-- we hit it off our back foot--almost predicting slice or
>> pull-hook-due to the out-to-in clubhead path. Dr. Mann says no golfer
>> can be much better than 10 handicap unless his swing includes a
>> transition-- and that only if he is a magician around the greens--
>> recovering, recovering, recovering.
>>
>> Larry
This complex move is not for you, Rob. Just keep on doing what you
been doing.
Larry
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Date: 11 Sep 2006 20:49:38
From: Ernie
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
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In article <8mdbg29nh2k9u67k89ehak472th09m4s53@4ax.com >,
larry <larry@deldata.com > wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 18:56:39 GMT, Rob Davis <davis.rob@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >That's *way* too complicated ... you'll never be any good thinking about
> >all that crap. Just "swing the clubhead" like Ernest Jones says ... it's
> >not rocket science ... duh! My buddy Gene Littler is a former pro and he
> >never thinks of any of that mechanical crap.
> >
> >Rob
> >
> >larry wrote:
> >> But we MUST make some sort of transition if we want to stop playing
> >> "Army" golf, left, right, left, etc! I agree with Dr. Mann in his
> >> SLAP book and video that it is impossible to hit the ball straight
> >> consistently unless we have moved our weight off our back foot and to
> >> our front foot before the downswing starts. Only then can we swing our
> >> arms in sync with our turning torso--and consistently hit it straight.
> >> The consequence of failing to make a transition to our front leg is
> >> deceleration-- we hit it off our back foot--almost predicting slice or
> >> pull-hook-due to the out-to-in clubhead path. Dr. Mann says no golfer
> >> can be much better than 10 handicap unless his swing includes a
> >> transition-- and that only if he is a magician around the greens--
> >> recovering, recovering, recovering.
> >>
> >> Larry
>
> This complex move is not for you, Rob. Just keep on doing what you
> been doing.
>
> Larry
So last week, you were lying. Got it.
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Date: 11 Sep 2006 11:07:28
From: sjh
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
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someone wrote:
> "Army" golf, left, right, left, etc!
Speaking of Army... is it standard for most/all military bases to have
a golf course? If so, is it something Army Engineers design, or do the
sub real golf architects?
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Date: 11 Sep 2006 19:31:01
From: Kenny Stultz
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
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In article <1157998048.864436.285070@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com >,
strat68@eudoramail.com says...
>
>
>someone wrote:
>> "Army" golf, left, right, left, etc!
>
>Speaking of Army... is it standard for most/all military bases to have
>a golf course? If so, is it something Army Engineers design, or do the
>sub real golf architects?
>
It depends. In Virginia, we have military courses designed by Donald Ross and
Rober Trent Jones, Sr. There are also a couple that look like they could
have been done by Gomer Pyle.
Kenny
--
Kenny Stultz - Troll and SPAM intolerant
"Golf is the only sport where a precise knowledge of the Rules can
earn one a reputation for bad sportsmanship"
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Date: 12 Sep 2006 02:13:08
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: Lateral Transition move?
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On 11 Sep 2006 19:31:01 GMT, stultz@wai.com (Kenny Stultz) wrote:
>It depends. In Virginia, we have military courses designed by Donald Ross and
>Rober Trent Jones, Sr. There are also a couple that look like they could
>have been done by Gomer Pyle.
That's not counting elite army bases such as The Presidio in San
Francisco.
There are some nice USAF courses in Colorado.
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0HFI/is_8_55/ai_n13467304
Military secrets: the Armed Forces own some first-rate golf
courses—and you can play them for next to nothing
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Date: 11 Sep 2006 14:32:49
From: Wayne
Subject: Re: Two Horrendous Rulings Yesterday
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multi wrote:
> 1. Justin Rose at the Canadian Open. In a bunker, he dug his feet in
> a bit before he took a couple practice swings, then moved at most six
> inches toward the ball, dug in again, and hit it. The "digging in"
> in both cases was absolutely standard, just a few shimmies of his
> feet. Some birdbrain viewer called in to the CPGA, and I still don't
> know how they get the number.
You've already corrected part of this by indicating that it was Byrd and not
Rose, but I've got a further nit-pick. The caller would have called the
RCGA (Royal Canadian Golf Association) who were conducting the event. I
don't see what the CPGA would have had to do with the tournament.
Wayne
--
www.nhlfa.com
"There are only two things I can't stand in this world: people who are
intolerant of other peoples' cultures, and the Dutch."
-Nigel Powers
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