Hands leading the club face at impact drills

golf-forums.net
Promoting golf discussion.

Main

Date: 07 Jan 2007 22:31:15
From: Steve
Subject: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

Looking for a few hands leading the clubface drills to help me learn to hit
down more on the ball.

Thanks,
Steve

Date: 16 Jan 2007 08:33:08
From: Birdie Bill
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

tin Levac wrote:
> "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_bill@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1168873044.200596.99940@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> >Your idea that the
> > only thing that matters is to practice to improve
> > accuracy is a recipe for disaster. It is a great way
> > to firmly ingrain a poor swing. If someone wants
> > to be stuck with an over-the-top casting swing
> > for the rest of their life, they should follow your
> > advice."
>
> How can practicing the purpose of golf be any wrong? How can it lead to
> mediocrity? It's like saying that practicing trowing darts at the bull's eye
> is wrong. It's like saying that practicing kicking the ball in the goal is
> wrong. It's like saying that practicing shooting the puck in the net is
> wrong. It's like saying that practicing shooting arrows at the target is
> wrong.

Practice does not make perfect, only perfect practice makes
perfect. Practicing a poor swing only deeply ingrains poor habits.

You need to find out the correct motions to make, and then
practice those. It is possible you might stumble on the
correct way on your own, but the odds are miniscule.

The worst thing a beginning golfer can do is spend hours a day
for years out on the driving range grooving a bad swing. I,
unfortunately, know this from personal experience.

Date: 16 Jan 2007 08:07:08
From: Birdie Bill
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

Birdie Bill wrote:
> tin Levac wrote:
> > You know what they say about arguing with a fool, Birdie
> > Bill.
>
> Well, yes, you are doing a good job of illustrating that.
> But...
>
> You keep avoiding answering the question, don't you.
> So, once again, here it is: have you ever experienced
> impact with your hands well ahead of the ball?

A simple yes or no would suffice.

Date: 15 Jan 2007 15:07:30
From: Birdie Bill
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

tin Levac wrote:
> You know what they say about arguing with a fool, Birdie
> Bill.

Well, yes, you are doing a good job of illustrating that.
But...

You keep avoiding answering the question, don't you.
So, once again, here it is: have you ever experienced
impact with your hands well ahead of the ball?

Date: 15 Jan 2007 06:57:24
From: Birdie Bill
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

tin Levac wrote:
> "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_bill@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1168781632.711310.254350@s34g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > tin Levac wrote:
> >> "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_bill@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:1168611657.544092.184870@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Jan 12, 1:01 am, "tin Levac" <v...@REMOVEvideotron.ca> wrote:
> >> >> "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_b...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> >> >> messagenews:1168583267.931844.302760@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > On Jan 11, 11:56 pm, "tin Levac" <v...@REMOVEvideotron.ca> wrote:
> >> >> >> "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_b...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> >> >> >> messagenews:1168571758.567919.58580@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >> >>
> >> >> >> > On Jan 10, 4:33 pm, "tin Levac" <v...@REMOVEvideotron.ca>
> >> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> >> >> "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_b...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> >> >> >> >> messagenews:1168444919.014952.73840@o58g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> > I'm surprised you don't understand the significance of what is
> >> >> >> >> > being
> >> >> >> >> > discussed.
> >> >> >> >> > On the one hand, I might dismiss you as a troll, however,
> >> >> >> >> > remembering
> >> >> >> >> > the extremely high trajectory of your swing video, I expect
> >> >> >> >> > you
> >> >> >> >> > really
> >> >> >> >> > don't have a clue. Consider the possiblity that you haven't
> >> >> >> >> > learned
> >> >> >> >> > everything yet.
> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>Oh, Birdie Bill, Judge Of Everything And Anything, I bow down to
> >> >> >> >>your
> >> >> >> >> ultimate wisdom is this matter.
> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> On the other hand, go fuck yourself.
> >> >>
> >> >> >> > LOL, you really don't have a clue do you? It is like trying to
> >> >> >> > explain
> >> >> >> > sex to a virgin. You think you know certain "facts" but you
> >> >> >> > totally
> >> >> >> > miss the big picture. But anyone who has experienced it knows.
> >> >> >> > If you had experienced it, you would know as well. Have fun
> >> >> >> > as a golf virgin.
> >> >> >>It is presumptuous of you to state what I think: You can't possibly
> >> >> >>know
> >> >> >> that. Pretending to hold a secret is like a catch 22: If you reveal
> >> >> >> it,
> >> >> >> you'll never know. If you don't reveal it, you'll never know
> >> >> >> either.
> >> >> >> Perhaps
> >> >> >> the purpose is different, perhaps you wish to bring doubt in my
> >> >> >> mind
> >> >> >> about
> >> >> >> what I know. Perhaps I am missing some critical piece of
> >> >> >> information.
> >> >> >> No,
> >> >> >> sorry, I'm not missing anything.
> >> >>
> >> >> > No, I am responding to your first post in this thread, which no one
> >> >> > would have made if they had actually experienced impact with
> >> >> > the hands well ahead of the ball.
> >> >>
> >> >> > If you have experienced such impact, go ahead and post a video
> >> >> > from the face-on view that shows it. If you think that it doesn't
> >> >> > really matter, and that all you have to do is practice shots to
> >> >> > get the ball close to the target, then you might ask yourself
> >> >> > why EVERY single pro arrives at impact with his hands WELL
> >> >> > ahead of the ball with the iron.
> >> >>
> >> >> > None of them have the clubshaft vertical, or in line with their
> >> >> > left arm. In EVERY case, an extension of the clubshaft
> >> >> > (when viewed face-on) points outside the body, to the target
> >> >> > side of the left shoulder.
> >> >>
> >> >> > Bitch.Alright, the subject.
> >> >>
> >> >> The purpose of striking the ball on a descending blow is to strike the
> >> >> ball
> >> >> first, the ground second. That is the immediate purpose. The ultimate
> >> >> purpose in this specific technique is to send the ball to a target
> >> >> using
> >> >> a
> >> >> club. It is known that striking the ground will affect the club in
> >> >> unpredictable fashion so it is best to strike the ball without having
> >> >> struck
> >> >> the ground prior so that we insure that the stroke is pure. As well as
> >> >> doing
> >> >> all that, striking the ground before the ball will rob the club of
> >> >> much
> >> >> needed momentum that, preferably, we transfer to the ball whole.
> >> >>
> >> >> One effect of the descending blow is some added distance because the
> >> >> loft
> >> >> is
> >> >> reduced. Another is some extra spin imparted to the ball. In some
> >> >> cases
> >> >> so
> >> >> much spin is added that the ball will roll back after having landed,
> >> >> especially on the green where the surface is smoother. This additional
> >> >> spin
> >> >> is often uncontrollable, instead it is preferable to impart just
> >> >> enough
> >> >> spin
> >> >> so that the ball lands and stops dead, something many professional
> >> >> players
> >> >> have a difficult time with.
> >> >>
> >> >> These effects were not intended at first but eventually were found to
> >> >> help
> >> >> the player in some cases. For example when the pin is tucked between
> >> >> an
> >> >> obstacle and a feature of the green, it would be preferable to land
> >> >> the
> >> >> ball
> >> >> and have it stop dead where it lands.
> >> >>
> >> >> It is important to stress that the first intent of striking the ball
> >> >> on a
> >> >> descending blow was and remains to strike the ball first, the ground
> >> >> second
> >> >> and the obvious effects of such a technique on accuracy.
> >> >>
> >> >> In other words, far is good, close is better.
> >> >
> >> > Ah, more "facts", but still missing the point. There is something
> >> > fundamental
> >> > that you seem to be completely unaware of. That is because you have
> >> > not
> >> > EXPERIENCED impact with an iron swing with the hands WELL ahead of the
> >> > ball at impact (as all pro do). If you had had this experience, you
> >> > would know
> >> > what I am talking about immediately.
> >> >
> >> > If I am wrong about you lacking this experience, just post a video from
> >> > the
> >> > face-on view with an iron showing impact clearly.
> >> >
> >>
> >> There is no more point to make. I know of no other purpose than to send a
> >> ball to a target using a club. The ball is what must be sent somewhere,
> >> nothing else will count. The target is where the ball must be sent,
> >> anywhere
> >> else will increase one's score. The club is what must be used to send the
> >> ball to the target, anything else and the rules will be broken. There is
> >> nothing more fundamental than that in golf.
> >>
> >> Perhaps it is you, Birdie Bill, that is missing the point of golf.
> >> Otherwise, enlighten us.
> >
> > So, have you experienced impact with your hands WELL ahead of
> > the ball with an iron swing? If you think you have, how do you know?
> > Have you seen your swing on video doing it, or have you seen fifth
> > groove impact ks? If you have, just go ahead and post the video.
> >
> > Otherwise, it is exactly what I said, you have no experience.
> > You haven't learned everything yet. You are a golf virgin.
> >
>
> Birdie Bill, you are intent on writing about me. This demonstrates a
> fixation which further demonstrates a mental disorder of some kind. This
> condition is associated with fanaticism, look up the word. Your behavior is
> disturbing.

No, my posts in this thread have been consistent, and
directly on point. You just refuse to answer the question.
So, again, how about it? Have you ever EXPERIENCED
impact with the hands well ahead of the ball with an iron,
or do you cast and lose lag well before impact?

I could try to argue the point with you using "facts", but that
would be pointless. If you have studied the golf swing at
all, you have seen such facts before and have not been
persuaded. Things like the ball compressing and rolling
up the clubface as opposed to weakly glancing off, and
the forces of release occuring through impact rather than
before.

These are just WORDS to you. In your mind, it
is a debate, where any position can "win" depending on
how the "facts" are argued. But this isn't debate, this
is physical reality, and sophistic arguments have no
effects on it. The only way you will really know is to
experience it.

Once you do, then you will know how foolish your
orignal post in this thread was. Your idea that the
only thing that matters is to practice to improve
accuracy is a recipe for disaster. It is a great way
to firmly ingrain a poor swing. If someone wants
to be stuck with an over-the-top casting swing
for the rest of their life, they should follow your
advice.

My advice is to learn a swing that is fundamentally
sound, and then groove that for accuracy.

Date: 15 Jan 2007 15:56:09
From: Martin Levac
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

"Birdie Bill" <bighorn_bill@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1168873044.200596.99940@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> tin Levac wrote:
>> "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_bill@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1168781632.711310.254350@s34g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> > tin Levac wrote:
>> >> "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_bill@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:1168611657.544092.184870@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Jan 12, 1:01 am, "tin Levac" <v...@REMOVEvideotron.ca> wrote:
>> >> >> "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_b...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> >> >> messagenews:1168583267.931844.302760@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > On Jan 11, 11:56 pm, "tin Levac" <v...@REMOVEvideotron.ca>
>> >> >> > wrote:
>> >> >> >> "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_b...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> >> >> >> messagenews:1168571758.567919.58580@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> > On Jan 10, 4:33 pm, "tin Levac" <v...@REMOVEvideotron.ca>
>> >> >> >> > wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_b...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> >> >> >> >> messagenews:1168444919.014952.73840@o58g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> > I'm surprised you don't understand the significance of what
>> >> >> >> >> > is
>> >> >> >> >> > being
>> >> >> >> >> > discussed.
>> >> >> >> >> > On the one hand, I might dismiss you as a troll, however,
>> >> >> >> >> > remembering
>> >> >> >> >> > the extremely high trajectory of your swing video, I expect
>> >> >> >> >> > you
>> >> >> >> >> > really
>> >> >> >> >> > don't have a clue. Consider the possiblity that you haven't
>> >> >> >> >> > learned
>> >> >> >> >> > everything yet.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>Oh, Birdie Bill, Judge Of Everything And Anything, I bow down
>> >> >> >> >>to
>> >> >> >> >>your
>> >> >> >> >> ultimate wisdom is this matter.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> On the other hand, go fuck yourself.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> > LOL, you really don't have a clue do you? It is like trying
>> >> >> >> > to
>> >> >> >> > explain
>> >> >> >> > sex to a virgin. You think you know certain "facts" but you
>> >> >> >> > totally
>> >> >> >> > miss the big picture. But anyone who has experienced it
>> >> >> >> > knows.
>> >> >> >> > If you had experienced it, you would know as well. Have fun
>> >> >> >> > as a golf virgin.
>> >> >> >>It is presumptuous of you to state what I think: You can't
>> >> >> >>possibly
>> >> >> >>know
>> >> >> >> that. Pretending to hold a secret is like a catch 22: If you
>> >> >> >> reveal
>> >> >> >> it,
>> >> >> >> you'll never know. If you don't reveal it, you'll never know
>> >> >> >> either.
>> >> >> >> Perhaps
>> >> >> >> the purpose is different, perhaps you wish to bring doubt in my
>> >> >> >> mind
>> >> >> >> about
>> >> >> >> what I know. Perhaps I am missing some critical piece of
>> >> >> >> information.
>> >> >> >> No,
>> >> >> >> sorry, I'm not missing anything.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > No, I am responding to your first post in this thread, which no
>> >> >> > one
>> >> >> > would have made if they had actually experienced impact with
>> >> >> > the hands well ahead of the ball.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > If you have experienced such impact, go ahead and post a video
>> >> >> > from the face-on view that shows it. If you think that it
>> >> >> > doesn't
>> >> >> > really matter, and that all you have to do is practice shots to
>> >> >> > get the ball close to the target, then you might ask yourself
>> >> >> > why EVERY single pro arrives at impact with his hands WELL
>> >> >> > ahead of the ball with the iron.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > None of them have the clubshaft vertical, or in line with their
>> >> >> > left arm. In EVERY case, an extension of the clubshaft
>> >> >> > (when viewed face-on) points outside the body, to the target
>> >> >> > side of the left shoulder.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > Bitch.Alright, the subject.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The purpose of striking the ball on a descending blow is to strike
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> ball
>> >> >> first, the ground second. That is the immediate purpose. The
>> >> >> ultimate
>> >> >> purpose in this specific technique is to send the ball to a target
>> >> >> using
>> >> >> a
>> >> >> club. It is known that striking the ground will affect the club in
>> >> >> unpredictable fashion so it is best to strike the ball without
>> >> >> having
>> >> >> struck
>> >> >> the ground prior so that we insure that the stroke is pure. As well
>> >> >> as
>> >> >> doing
>> >> >> all that, striking the ground before the ball will rob the club of
>> >> >> much
>> >> >> needed momentum that, preferably, we transfer to the ball whole.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> One effect of the descending blow is some added distance because
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> loft
>> >> >> is
>> >> >> reduced. Another is some extra spin imparted to the ball. In some
>> >> >> cases
>> >> >> so
>> >> >> much spin is added that the ball will roll back after having
>> >> >> landed,
>> >> >> especially on the green where the surface is smoother. This
>> >> >> additional
>> >> >> spin
>> >> >> is often uncontrollable, instead it is preferable to impart just
>> >> >> enough
>> >> >> spin
>> >> >> so that the ball lands and stops dead, something many professional
>> >> >> players
>> >> >> have a difficult time with.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> These effects were not intended at first but eventually were found
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> help
>> >> >> the player in some cases. For example when the pin is tucked
>> >> >> between
>> >> >> an
>> >> >> obstacle and a feature of the green, it would be preferable to land
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> ball
>> >> >> and have it stop dead where it lands.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> It is important to stress that the first intent of striking the
>> >> >> ball
>> >> >> on a
>> >> >> descending blow was and remains to strike the ball first, the
>> >> >> ground
>> >> >> second
>> >> >> and the obvious effects of such a technique on accuracy.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> In other words, far is good, close is better.
>> >> >
>> >> > Ah, more "facts", but still missing the point. There is something
>> >> > fundamental
>> >> > that you seem to be completely unaware of. That is because you have
>> >> > not
>> >> > EXPERIENCED impact with an iron swing with the hands WELL ahead of
>> >> > the
>> >> > ball at impact (as all pro do). If you had had this experience, you
>> >> > would know
>> >> > what I am talking about immediately.
>> >> >
>> >> > If I am wrong about you lacking this experience, just post a video
>> >> > from
>> >> > the
>> >> > face-on view with an iron showing impact clearly.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> There is no more point to make. I know of no other purpose than to
>> >> send a
>> >> ball to a target using a club. The ball is what must be sent
>> >> somewhere,
>> >> nothing else will count. The target is where the ball must be sent,
>> >> anywhere
>> >> else will increase one's score. The club is what must be used to send
>> >> the
>> >> ball to the target, anything else and the rules will be broken. There
>> >> is
>> >> nothing more fundamental than that in golf.
>> >>
>> >> Perhaps it is you, Birdie Bill, that is missing the point of golf.
>> >> Otherwise, enlighten us.
>> >
>> > So, have you experienced impact with your hands WELL ahead of
>> > the ball with an iron swing? If you think you have, how do you know?
>> > Have you seen your swing on video doing it, or have you seen fifth
>> > groove impact ks? If you have, just go ahead and post the video.
>> >
>> > Otherwise, it is exactly what I said, you have no experience.
>> > You haven't learned everything yet. You are a golf virgin.
>> >
>>
>> Birdie Bill, you are intent on writing about me. This demonstrates a
>> fixation which further demonstrates a mental disorder of some kind. This
>> condition is associated with fanaticism, look up the word. Your behavior
>> is
>> disturbing.
>
> No, my posts in this thread have been consistent, and
> directly on point. You just refuse to answer the question.
> So, again, how about it? Have you ever EXPERIENCED
> impact with the hands well ahead of the ball with an iron,
> or do you cast and lose lag well before impact?
>
> I could try to argue the point with you using "facts", but that
> would be pointless. If you have studied the golf swing at
> all, you have seen such facts before and have not been
> persuaded. Things like the ball compressing and rolling
> up the clubface as opposed to weakly glancing off, and
> the forces of release occuring through impact rather than
> before.
>
> These are just WORDS to you. In your mind, it
> is a debate, where any position can "win" depending on
> how the "facts" are argued. But this isn't debate, this
> is physical reality, and sophistic arguments have no
> effects on it. The only way you will really know is to
> experience it.
>
> Once you do, then you will know how foolish your
> orignal post in this thread was. Your idea that the
> only thing that matters is to practice to improve
> accuracy is a recipe for disaster. It is a great way
> to firmly ingrain a poor swing. If someone wants
> to be stuck with an over-the-top casting swing
> for the rest of their life, they should follow your
> advice.
>
> My advice is to learn a swing that is fundamentally
> sound, and then groove that for accuracy.
>

There you go again with pretending to know what I think. You can't possibly
know what I think. I tell you, Birdie Bill, your behavior is becoming
obsessive. It happens to people when they go the wrong way, they are told
about it, they know about it but they refuse to make any correction for fear
of being told "I told you so" or simply because they close their mind to
anything else. The term hardheaded comes to mind. Stupid is another term
used for that. You know what they say about arguing with a fool, Birdie
Bill.

This is ridiculous:

"Your idea that the
> only thing that matters is to practice to improve
> accuracy is a recipe for disaster. It is a great way
> to firmly ingrain a poor swing. If someone wants
> to be stuck with an over-the-top casting swing
> for the rest of their life, they should follow your
> advice."

How can practicing the purpose of golf be any wrong? How can it lead to
mediocrity? It's like saying that practicing trowing darts at the bull's eye
is wrong. It's like saying that practicing kicking the ball in the goal is
wrong. It's like saying that practicing shooting the puck in the net is
wrong. It's like saying that practicing shooting arrows at the target is
wrong. Here, I'll teach you, Birdie Bill.

www.websters.com

Practice
Mediocrity
Skill
Teach
Learn
Intelligence
Purpose
Method
Accuracy
Advice
Seek
Help
Stupid

Fuck you and your advice, Birdie Bill.

Date: 15 Jan 2007 21:34:52
From: Dave Lee
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

"tin Levac" <vac3@REMOVEvideotron.ca > wrote in message
news:vTRqh.81359$N33.890138@weber.videotron.net...

> BIG SNIP

> How can practicing the purpose of golf be any wrong? How can it lead to
> mediocrity? It's like saying that practicing trowing darts at the bull's
eye
> is wrong. It's like saying that practicing kicking the ball in the goal is
> wrong. It's like saying that practicing shooting the puck in the net is
> wrong. It's like saying that practicing shooting arrows at the target is
> wrong. Here, I'll teach you, Birdie Bill.
>

For many golfers this advice is dangerously wrong. And for many golfers it
is not. My suspicion is that you already know that.

dave

Date: 15 Jan 2007 21:40:32
From: Bobby Knight
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 21:34:52 GMT, "Dave Lee"
<DaveLeeNC@ix.netcom.RemovE.com > wrote:

>
>"tin Levac" <vac3@REMOVEvideotron.ca> wrote in message
>news:vTRqh.81359$N33.890138@weber.videotron.net...
>
>> BIG SNIP
>
>> How can practicing the purpose of golf be any wrong? How can it lead to
>> mediocrity? It's like saying that practicing trowing darts at the bull's
>eye
>> is wrong. It's like saying that practicing kicking the ball in the goal is
>> wrong. It's like saying that practicing shooting the puck in the net is
>> wrong. It's like saying that practicing shooting arrows at the target is
>> wrong. Here, I'll teach you, Birdie Bill.
>>
>
>For many golfers this advice is dangerously wrong. And for many golfers it
>is not. My suspicion is that you already know that.
>
>dave

No, he doesn't. It's apparent that he knows little.
--
___,
\o

Date: 15 Jan 2007 21:11:04
From: Bobby Knight
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 15:56:09 -0500, "tin Levac"
<vac3@REMOVEvideotron.ca > wrote:

>How can practicing the purpose of golf be any wrong?
If you're practicing a wrong swing.

>Fuck you and your advice, Birdie Bill.

Another example of your raising the level of conversation Frenchy?
--
___,
\o

Date: 17 Jan 2007 18:26:45
From: Rog
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

"Bobby Knight" <bknight@conramp.net > wrote in message
news:6brnq2def0sg4arnpn6pmscj6jef1427sb@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 15:56:09 -0500, "tin Levac"
> <vac3@REMOVEvideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>
>>How can practicing the purpose of golf be any wrong?
> If you're practicing a wrong swing.
>
>>Fuck you and your advice, Birdie Bill.
>
> Another example of your raising the level of conversation Frenchy?
> --
> ___,
> \o
>

Date: 16 Jan 2007 00:15:54
From: bill-o
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

On 15-Jan-2007, Bobby Knight <bknight@conramp.net > wrote:

> Another example of your raising the level of conversation Frenchy?

tin is from Qu�bec. That would be like calling you Limey.

--
bill-o

A "gimme" can best be defined as an agreement between
two golfers neither of whom can putt very well.

Date: 15 Jan 2007 16:28:40
From: Martin Levac
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

Date: 16 Jan 2007 03:10:34
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 16:28:40 -0500, "tin Levac"
<vac3@REMOVEvideotron.ca > wrote:

>If I am practicing the purpose of golf, I am not practicing the wrong swing.
>The two are distinct and exclusive of one another.

The purpose of golf is to have fun. Practicing having fun isn't a
bad idea.

Date: 16 Jan 2007 00:14:09
From: bill-o
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

On 15-Jan-2007, "tin Levac" <vac3@REMOVEvideotron.ca > wrote:

> Stupidity is something you can fix,

No, you can cure ignorance but you can't fix stupid!

--
bill-o

A "gimme" can best be defined as an agreement between
two golfers neither of whom can putt very well.

Date: 15 Jan 2007 21:39:41
From: Bobby Knight
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 16:28:40 -0500, "tin Levac"
<vac3@REMOVEvideotron.ca > wrote:

>Hello, Bobby Knight, nice to have you back for some more stupidity.
>
>This is what I wrote:
>
>"How can practicing the purpose of golf by any wrong?"

Practicing the purpose of golf, tin Levac? You have the gall to
call anyone else stupid tin Levac?
>

>Your example of "raising the level of conversation" isn't so good either,
>Bobby Knight. Stupidity is something you can fix, all it takes is a little
>intelligence.

Obvious, and you just can't bring yourself to try fixing yours, tin
Levac..

>No scratch that, it takes a lot of intelligence considering
>how little you have shown. Get it? Little, lot? Oh nevermind.
>
You really should heed Bill's advice tin Levac...but then you don't
understand it.
--
___,
\o

Date: 14 Jan 2007 06:59:09
From: Birdie Bill
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

sohungry wrote:
> Hi all, I could also use some help. Although my hands already lead the
> club face at impact, I feel that I'd be a better player if I could
> increase this leading action a little bit.
>
> (Some info about my game: I feel my ball flight is too high, my index
> is currently hovering b/t 9.5 - 10.5, my drives range between 260 -
> 290.)
>
> If I can increase the amount by which my hands lead the club face, I
> feel that I'd gain some consistency, decrease the trajectory of my ball
> flight/increase distance.
>
> My problem is that when I try to increase this leading action, I can't
> get the face squared quickly enough. The face __always__ ends up open,
> and the shot usually results in a push.
>
> Any tips/feedback are greatly appreciated.
>
> P.S. I hope no one thinks I'm hijacking this thread--I thought the
> original poster might also benefit from feedback for my problem.

My experience is that this is a common problem. Without
seeing your swing on video, though, I can't offer a specific
suggestion with 100% confidence. About the only thing I
can tell you is to fix your impact position first and then adjust
your clubface angle. This is a major change and takes a lot
of courage to do it. I highly advise working with a pro to guide
you through it.

For me, clubface angle always seems to come down to
"educated hands". If my clubace is open, then I need to
feel that my hands are getting to the right position at impact,
or rather at "the anticipated moment of impact". To me,
the feeling is mostly in the right hand. I want to arrive at
impact with the right wrist hinged back and the palm
facing down, not sideways. (Again, I am talking about
iron shots, where your hands are well ahead of the ball
at impact.)

At first, you may only be able to block the ball doing this,
and that is OK, for a start. The next step is to start
releasing. By this I mean a rapid rolling of the forearms.
If your wrists are loose enough, and you get the timing
right, this can happen automatically. Using a training
aid like the "Pro-tater"
http://www.golfaroundtheworld.com/product_info.php?cPath=5&products_id=32&osCsid=9af785f6fcd26f98e806fe8ef2ed9405
will help you feel the timing and just how rapidly this
rolling occurs when you delay it.

Date: 14 Jan 2007 05:33:52
From: Birdie Bill
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

tin Levac wrote:
> "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_bill@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1168611657.544092.184870@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> >
> > On Jan 12, 1:01 am, "tin Levac" <v...@REMOVEvideotron.ca> wrote:
> >> "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_b...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> >> messagenews:1168583267.931844.302760@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > On Jan 11, 11:56 pm, "tin Levac" <v...@REMOVEvideotron.ca> wrote:
> >> >> "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_b...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> >> >> messagenews:1168571758.567919.58580@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >>
> >> >> > On Jan 10, 4:33 pm, "tin Levac" <v...@REMOVEvideotron.ca> wrote:
> >> >> >> "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_b...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> >> >> >> messagenews:1168444919.014952.73840@o58g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> >>
> >> >> >> > I'm surprised you don't understand the significance of what is
> >> >> >> > being
> >> >> >> > discussed.
> >> >> >> > On the one hand, I might dismiss you as a troll, however,
> >> >> >> > remembering
> >> >> >> > the extremely high trajectory of your swing video, I expect you
> >> >> >> > really
> >> >> >> > don't have a clue. Consider the possiblity that you haven't
> >> >> >> > learned
> >> >> >> > everything yet.
> >>
> >> >> >>Oh, Birdie Bill, Judge Of Everything And Anything, I bow down to
> >> >> >>your
> >> >> >> ultimate wisdom is this matter.
> >>
> >> >> >> On the other hand, go fuck yourself.
> >>
> >> >> > LOL, you really don't have a clue do you? It is like trying to
> >> >> > explain
> >> >> > sex to a virgin. You think you know certain "facts" but you totally
> >> >> > miss the big picture. But anyone who has experienced it knows.
> >> >> > If you had experienced it, you would know as well. Have fun
> >> >> > as a golf virgin.
> >> >>It is presumptuous of you to state what I think: You can't possibly
> >> >>know
> >> >> that. Pretending to hold a secret is like a catch 22: If you reveal
> >> >> it,
> >> >> you'll never know. If you don't reveal it, you'll never know either.
> >> >> Perhaps
> >> >> the purpose is different, perhaps you wish to bring doubt in my mind
> >> >> about
> >> >> what I know. Perhaps I am missing some critical piece of information.
> >> >> No,
> >> >> sorry, I'm not missing anything.
> >>
> >> > No, I am responding to your first post in this thread, which no one
> >> > would have made if they had actually experienced impact with
> >> > the hands well ahead of the ball.
> >>
> >> > If you have experienced such impact, go ahead and post a video
> >> > from the face-on view that shows it. If you think that it doesn't
> >> > really matter, and that all you have to do is practice shots to
> >> > get the ball close to the target, then you might ask yourself
> >> > why EVERY single pro arrives at impact with his hands WELL
> >> > ahead of the ball with the iron.
> >>
> >> > None of them have the clubshaft vertical, or in line with their
> >> > left arm. In EVERY case, an extension of the clubshaft
> >> > (when viewed face-on) points outside the body, to the target
> >> > side of the left shoulder.
> >>
> >> > Bitch.Alright, the subject.
> >>
> >> The purpose of striking the ball on a descending blow is to strike the
> >> ball
> >> first, the ground second. That is the immediate purpose. The ultimate
> >> purpose in this specific technique is to send the ball to a target using
> >> a
> >> club. It is known that striking the ground will affect the club in
> >> unpredictable fashion so it is best to strike the ball without having
> >> struck
> >> the ground prior so that we insure that the stroke is pure. As well as
> >> doing
> >> all that, striking the ground before the ball will rob the club of much
> >> needed momentum that, preferably, we transfer to the ball whole.
> >>
> >> One effect of the descending blow is some added distance because the loft
> >> is
> >> reduced. Another is some extra spin imparted to the ball. In some cases
> >> so
> >> much spin is added that the ball will roll back after having landed,
> >> especially on the green where the surface is smoother. This additional
> >> spin
> >> is often uncontrollable, instead it is preferable to impart just enough
> >> spin
> >> so that the ball lands and stops dead, something many professional
> >> players
> >> have a difficult time with.
> >>
> >> These effects were not intended at first but eventually were found to
> >> help
> >> the player in some cases. For example when the pin is tucked between an
> >> obstacle and a feature of the green, it would be preferable to land the
> >> ball
> >> and have it stop dead where it lands.
> >>
> >> It is important to stress that the first intent of striking the ball on a
> >> descending blow was and remains to strike the ball first, the ground
> >> second
> >> and the obvious effects of such a technique on accuracy.
> >>
> >> In other words, far is good, close is better.
> >
> > Ah, more "facts", but still missing the point. There is something
> > fundamental
> > that you seem to be completely unaware of. That is because you have
> > not
> > EXPERIENCED impact with an iron swing with the hands WELL ahead of the
> > ball at impact (as all pro do). If you had had this experience, you
> > would know
> > what I am talking about immediately.
> >
> > If I am wrong about you lacking this experience, just post a video from
> > the
> > face-on view with an iron showing impact clearly.
> >
>
> There is no more point to make. I know of no other purpose than to send a
> ball to a target using a club. The ball is what must be sent somewhere,
> nothing else will count. The target is where the ball must be sent, anywhere
> else will increase one's score. The club is what must be used to send the
> ball to the target, anything else and the rules will be broken. There is
> nothing more fundamental than that in golf.
>
> Perhaps it is you, Birdie Bill, that is missing the point of golf.
> Otherwise, enlighten us.

So, have you experienced impact with your hands WELL ahead of
the ball with an iron swing? If you think you have, how do you know?
Have you seen your swing on video doing it, or have you seen fifth
groove impact ks? If you have, just go ahead and post the video.

Otherwise, it is exactly what I said, you have no experience.
You haven't learned everything yet. You are a golf virgin.

Date: 14 Jan 2007 13:57:16
From: Martin Levac
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

"Birdie Bill" <bighorn_bill@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1168781632.711310.254350@s34g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> tin Levac wrote:
>> "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_bill@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1168611657.544092.184870@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> >
>> > On Jan 12, 1:01 am, "tin Levac" <v...@REMOVEvideotron.ca> wrote:
>> >> "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_b...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> >> messagenews:1168583267.931844.302760@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > On Jan 11, 11:56 pm, "tin Levac" <v...@REMOVEvideotron.ca> wrote:
>> >> >> "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_b...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> >> >> messagenews:1168571758.567919.58580@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> >>
>> >> >> > On Jan 10, 4:33 pm, "tin Levac" <v...@REMOVEvideotron.ca>
>> >> >> > wrote:
>> >> >> >> "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_b...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> >> >> >> messagenews:1168444919.014952.73840@o58g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>> >>
>> >> >> >> > I'm surprised you don't understand the significance of what is
>> >> >> >> > being
>> >> >> >> > discussed.
>> >> >> >> > On the one hand, I might dismiss you as a troll, however,
>> >> >> >> > remembering
>> >> >> >> > the extremely high trajectory of your swing video, I expect
>> >> >> >> > you
>> >> >> >> > really
>> >> >> >> > don't have a clue. Consider the possiblity that you haven't
>> >> >> >> > learned
>> >> >> >> > everything yet.
>> >>
>> >> >> >>Oh, Birdie Bill, Judge Of Everything And Anything, I bow down to
>> >> >> >>your
>> >> >> >> ultimate wisdom is this matter.
>> >>
>> >> >> >> On the other hand, go fuck yourself.
>> >>
>> >> >> > LOL, you really don't have a clue do you? It is like trying to
>> >> >> > explain
>> >> >> > sex to a virgin. You think you know certain "facts" but you
>> >> >> > totally
>> >> >> > miss the big picture. But anyone who has experienced it knows.
>> >> >> > If you had experienced it, you would know as well. Have fun
>> >> >> > as a golf virgin.
>> >> >>It is presumptuous of you to state what I think: You can't possibly
>> >> >>know
>> >> >> that. Pretending to hold a secret is like a catch 22: If you reveal
>> >> >> it,
>> >> >> you'll never know. If you don't reveal it, you'll never know
>> >> >> either.
>> >> >> Perhaps
>> >> >> the purpose is different, perhaps you wish to bring doubt in my
>> >> >> mind
>> >> >> about
>> >> >> what I know. Perhaps I am missing some critical piece of
>> >> >> information.
>> >> >> No,
>> >> >> sorry, I'm not missing anything.
>> >>
>> >> > No, I am responding to your first post in this thread, which no one
>> >> > would have made if they had actually experienced impact with
>> >> > the hands well ahead of the ball.
>> >>
>> >> > If you have experienced such impact, go ahead and post a video
>> >> > from the face-on view that shows it. If you think that it doesn't
>> >> > really matter, and that all you have to do is practice shots to
>> >> > get the ball close to the target, then you might ask yourself
>> >> > why EVERY single pro arrives at impact with his hands WELL
>> >> > ahead of the ball with the iron.
>> >>
>> >> > None of them have the clubshaft vertical, or in line with their
>> >> > left arm. In EVERY case, an extension of the clubshaft
>> >> > (when viewed face-on) points outside the body, to the target
>> >> > side of the left shoulder.
>> >>
>> >> > Bitch.Alright, the subject.
>> >>
>> >> The purpose of striking the ball on a descending blow is to strike the
>> >> ball
>> >> first, the ground second. That is the immediate purpose. The ultimate
>> >> purpose in this specific technique is to send the ball to a target
>> >> using
>> >> a
>> >> club. It is known that striking the ground will affect the club in
>> >> unpredictable fashion so it is best to strike the ball without having
>> >> struck
>> >> the ground prior so that we insure that the stroke is pure. As well as
>> >> doing
>> >> all that, striking the ground before the ball will rob the club of
>> >> much
>> >> needed momentum that, preferably, we transfer to the ball whole.
>> >>
>> >> One effect of the descending blow is some added distance because the
>> >> loft
>> >> is
>> >> reduced. Another is some extra spin imparted to the ball. In some
>> >> cases
>> >> so
>> >> much spin is added that the ball will roll back after having landed,
>> >> especially on the green where the surface is smoother. This additional
>> >> spin
>> >> is often uncontrollable, instead it is preferable to impart just
>> >> enough
>> >> spin
>> >> so that the ball lands and stops dead, something many professional
>> >> players
>> >> have a difficult time with.
>> >>
>> >> These effects were not intended at first but eventually were found to
>> >> help
>> >> the player in some cases. For example when the pin is tucked between
>> >> an
>> >> obstacle and a feature of the green, it would be preferable to land
>> >> the
>> >> ball
>> >> and have it stop dead where it lands.
>> >>
>> >> It is important to stress that the first intent of striking the ball
>> >> on a
>> >> descending blow was and remains to strike the ball first, the ground
>> >> second
>> >> and the obvious effects of such a technique on accuracy.
>> >>
>> >> In other words, far is good, close is better.
>> >
>> > Ah, more "facts", but still missing the point. There is something
>> > fundamental
>> > that you seem to be completely unaware of. That is because you have
>> > not
>> > EXPERIENCED impact with an iron swing with the hands WELL ahead of the
>> > ball at impact (as all pro do). If you had had this experience, you
>> > would know
>> > what I am talking about immediately.
>> >
>> > If I am wrong about you lacking this experience, just post a video from
>> > the
>> > face-on view with an iron showing impact clearly.
>> >
>>
>> There is no more point to make. I know of no other purpose than to send a
>> ball to a target using a club. The ball is what must be sent somewhere,
>> nothing else will count. The target is where the ball must be sent,
>> anywhere
>> else will increase one's score. The club is what must be used to send the
>> ball to the target, anything else and the rules will be broken. There is
>> nothing more fundamental than that in golf.
>>
>> Perhaps it is you, Birdie Bill, that is missing the point of golf.
>> Otherwise, enlighten us.
>
> So, have you experienced impact with your hands WELL ahead of
> the ball with an iron swing? If you think you have, how do you know?
> Have you seen your swing on video doing it, or have you seen fifth
> groove impact ks? If you have, just go ahead and post the video.
>
> Otherwise, it is exactly what I said, you have no experience.
> You haven't learned everything yet. You are a golf virgin.
>

Birdie Bill, you are intent on writing about me. This demonstrates a
fixation which further demonstrates a mental disorder of some kind. This
condition is associated with fanaticism, look up the word. Your behavior is
disturbing.

This is a popular online dictionary:

www.websters.com

Date: 12 Jan 2007 09:31:05
From: sohungry
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

Hi all, I could also use some help. Although my hands already lead the
club face at impact, I feel that I'd be a better player if I could
increase this leading action a little bit.

(Some info about my game: I feel my ball flight is too high, my index
is currently hovering b/t 9.5 - 10.5, my drives range between 260 -
290.)

If I can increase the amount by which my hands lead the club face, I
feel that I'd gain some consistency, decrease the trajectory of my ball
flight/increase distance.

My problem is that when I try to increase this leading action, I can't
get the face squared quickly enough. The face __always__ ends up open,
and the shot usually results in a push.

Any tips/feedback are greatly appreciated.

P.S. I hope no one thinks I'm hijacking this thread--I thought the
original poster might also benefit from feedback for my problem.

Date: 13 Jan 2007 17:41:08
From: Martin Levac
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

"sohungry" <sohungry73@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1168623064.227700.158190@51g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
> Hi all, I could also use some help. Although my hands already lead the
> club face at impact, I feel that I'd be a better player if I could
> increase this leading action a little bit.
>
> (Some info about my game: I feel my ball flight is too high, my index
> is currently hovering b/t 9.5 - 10.5, my drives range between 260 -
> 290.)
>
> If I can increase the amount by which my hands lead the club face, I
> feel that I'd gain some consistency, decrease the trajectory of my ball
> flight/increase distance.
>
> My problem is that when I try to increase this leading action, I can't
> get the face squared quickly enough. The face __always__ ends up open,
> and the shot usually results in a push.
>
> Any tips/feedback are greatly appreciated.
>
> P.S. I hope no one thinks I'm hijacking this thread--I thought the
> original poster might also benefit from feedback for my problem.
>

Your answer is in the problem.

You push the ball. So close the face a little, come into the ball a little
less from the inside. If you have to reach for the ball at this point, put
it a little closer to your feet and a little farther back than otherwise.
Widen your stance just a little as well.

Or, forget about hitting down on the ball. Instead, focus on sending the
ball to the target using a club 500 times per practice session until you can
repeat the process at will. Then when you reach that point, continue sending
the ball to the target using a club 500 times per practice session to make
sure that you can still repeat the process at will. And so forth.

You wrote that you push the ball. That alone tells us that you can't send a
ball to a target using a club so why are you focusing on anything else? You
wrote that you have the ability to send the ball far but don't have the
ability to send the ball straight. Do you want to send the ball farther or
do you want to send the ball straight?

Forget about consistency, instead think about ability. Do you have the
ability to send the ball to any target of your choice at will? The answer is
either yes or no.

Have a nice day.

tin Levac

Date: 14 Jan 2007 03:06:39
From: Dave Lee
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

"tin Levac" <vac3@REMOVEvideotron.ca > wrote in message
news:%ddqh.53628$U04.949079@weber.videotron.net...
>
> snip
> Or, forget about hitting down on the ball. Instead, focus on sending the
> ball to the target using a club 500 times per practice session until you
can
> repeat the process at will. Then when you reach that point, continue
sending
> the ball to the target using a club 500 times per practice session to make
> sure that you can still repeat the process at will. And so forth.
>
>snip
> tin Levac
>

That is a start but truly is lacking. You should focus on sending the ball
to the target using a club at least 1200 times each morning practice
session. You should then get a drink of water and go buy a new golf glove -
by then it will be afternoon.

In the afternoon you should again focus on sending the ball to the target
using a club another 1200 times until you can repeat the process at will. An
additional 2,187 practice swings at home would also be helpful.

dave

ps. If you can you should buy the 2,000 ball bucket at your range as it will
typically save money and carrying it is an excellent workout.

Date: 13 Jan 2007 15:10:28
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

On 12 Jan 2007 09:31:05 -0800, "sohungry" <sohungry73@gmail.com >
wrote:

>My problem is that when I try to increase this leading action, I can't
>get the face squared quickly enough. The face __always__ ends up open,
>and the shot usually results in a push.

I'm not good - but I have read and heard recommendations for this
problem.

Some players use this process to make their draws and fades. I find
it useful to think of when I find myself slicing. But I need to
remember to match my lag change with a corresponding body change.

The whole body movement should match - which means experimenting with
how fast you move your body around. For instance, Tiger's fast hip
movement allows him to hit his stinger without hooking.

Of course, trained eyes help a lot - which aren't available via this
medium.

Date: 12 Jan 2007 21:56:55
From: Dave Lee
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

Date: 12 Jan 2007 06:20:57
From: Birdie Bill
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

On Jan 12, 1:01 am, "tin Levac" <v...@REMOVEvideotron.ca > wrote:
> "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_b...@hotmail.com> wrote in messagenews:1168583267.931844.302760@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 11, 11:56 pm, "tin Levac" <v...@REMOVEvideotron.ca> wrote:
> >> "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_b...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> >> messagenews:1168571758.567919.58580@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> > On Jan 10, 4:33 pm, "tin Levac" <v...@REMOVEvideotron.ca> wrote:
> >> >> "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_b...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> >> >> messagenews:1168444919.014952.73840@o58g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> >> > I'm surprised you don't understand the significance of what is being
> >> >> > discussed.
> >> >> > On the one hand, I might dismiss you as a troll, however,
> >> >> > remembering
> >> >> > the extremely high trajectory of your swing video, I expect you
> >> >> > really
> >> >> > don't have a clue. Consider the possiblity that you haven't learned
> >> >> > everything yet.
>
> >> >>Oh, Birdie Bill, Judge Of Everything And Anything, I bow down to your
> >> >> ultimate wisdom is this matter.
>
> >> >> On the other hand, go fuck yourself.
>
> >> > LOL, you really don't have a clue do you? It is like trying to explain
> >> > sex to a virgin. You think you know certain "facts" but you totally
> >> > miss the big picture. But anyone who has experienced it knows.
> >> > If you had experienced it, you would know as well. Have fun
> >> > as a golf virgin.
> >>It is presumptuous of you to state what I think: You can't possibly know
> >> that. Pretending to hold a secret is like a catch 22: If you reveal it,
> >> you'll never know. If you don't reveal it, you'll never know either.
> >> Perhaps
> >> the purpose is different, perhaps you wish to bring doubt in my mind
> >> about
> >> what I know. Perhaps I am missing some critical piece of information. No,
> >> sorry, I'm not missing anything.
>
> > No, I am responding to your first post in this thread, which no one
> > would have made if they had actually experienced impact with
> > the hands well ahead of the ball.
>
> > If you have experienced such impact, go ahead and post a video
> > from the face-on view that shows it. If you think that it doesn't
> > really matter, and that all you have to do is practice shots to
> > get the ball close to the target, then you might ask yourself
> > why EVERY single pro arrives at impact with his hands WELL
> > ahead of the ball with the iron.
>
> > None of them have the clubshaft vertical, or in line with their
> > left arm. In EVERY case, an extension of the clubshaft
> > (when viewed face-on) points outside the body, to the target
> > side of the left shoulder.
>
> > Bitch.Alright, the subject.
>
> The purpose of striking the ball on a descending blow is to strike the ball
> first, the ground second. That is the immediate purpose. The ultimate
> purpose in this specific technique is to send the ball to a target using a
> club. It is known that striking the ground will affect the club in
> unpredictable fashion so it is best to strike the ball without having struck
> the ground prior so that we insure that the stroke is pure. As well as doing
> all that, striking the ground before the ball will rob the club of much
> needed momentum that, preferably, we transfer to the ball whole.
>
> One effect of the descending blow is some added distance because the loft is
> reduced. Another is some extra spin imparted to the ball. In some cases so
> much spin is added that the ball will roll back after having landed,
> especially on the green where the surface is smoother. This additional spin
> is often uncontrollable, instead it is preferable to impart just enough spin
> so that the ball lands and stops dead, something many professional players
> have a difficult time with.
>
> These effects were not intended at first but eventually were found to help
> the player in some cases. For example when the pin is tucked between an
> obstacle and a feature of the green, it would be preferable to land the ball
> and have it stop dead where it lands.
>
> It is important to stress that the first intent of striking the ball on a
> descending blow was and remains to strike the ball first, the ground second
> and the obvious effects of such a technique on accuracy.
>
> In other words, far is good, close is better.

Ah, more "facts", but still missing the point. There is something
fundamental
that you seem to be completely unaware of. That is because you have
not
EXPERIENCED impact with an iron swing with the hands WELL ahead of the
ball at impact (as all pro do). If you had had this experience, you
would know
what I am talking about immediately.

If I am wrong about you lacking this experience, just post a video from
the
face-on view with an iron showing impact clearly.

Date: 12 Jan 2007 14:21:24
From: Martin Levac
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

"Birdie Bill" <bighorn_bill@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1168611657.544092.184870@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> On Jan 12, 1:01 am, "tin Levac" <v...@REMOVEvideotron.ca> wrote:
>> "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_b...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> messagenews:1168583267.931844.302760@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Jan 11, 11:56 pm, "tin Levac" <v...@REMOVEvideotron.ca> wrote:
>> >> "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_b...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> >> messagenews:1168571758.567919.58580@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> >> > On Jan 10, 4:33 pm, "tin Levac" <v...@REMOVEvideotron.ca> wrote:
>> >> >> "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_b...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> >> >> messagenews:1168444919.014952.73840@o58g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> >> >> > I'm surprised you don't understand the significance of what is
>> >> >> > being
>> >> >> > discussed.
>> >> >> > On the one hand, I might dismiss you as a troll, however,
>> >> >> > remembering
>> >> >> > the extremely high trajectory of your swing video, I expect you
>> >> >> > really
>> >> >> > don't have a clue. Consider the possiblity that you haven't
>> >> >> > learned
>> >> >> > everything yet.
>>
>> >> >>Oh, Birdie Bill, Judge Of Everything And Anything, I bow down to
>> >> >>your
>> >> >> ultimate wisdom is this matter.
>>
>> >> >> On the other hand, go fuck yourself.
>>
>> >> > LOL, you really don't have a clue do you? It is like trying to
>> >> > explain
>> >> > sex to a virgin. You think you know certain "facts" but you totally
>> >> > miss the big picture. But anyone who has experienced it knows.
>> >> > If you had experienced it, you would know as well. Have fun
>> >> > as a golf virgin.
>> >>It is presumptuous of you to state what I think: You can't possibly
>> >>know
>> >> that. Pretending to hold a secret is like a catch 22: If you reveal
>> >> it,
>> >> you'll never know. If you don't reveal it, you'll never know either.
>> >> Perhaps
>> >> the purpose is different, perhaps you wish to bring doubt in my mind
>> >> about
>> >> what I know. Perhaps I am missing some critical piece of information.
>> >> No,
>> >> sorry, I'm not missing anything.
>>
>> > No, I am responding to your first post in this thread, which no one
>> > would have made if they had actually experienced impact with
>> > the hands well ahead of the ball.
>>
>> > If you have experienced such impact, go ahead and post a video
>> > from the face-on view that shows it. If you think that it doesn't
>> > really matter, and that all you have to do is practice shots to
>> > get the ball close to the target, then you might ask yourself
>> > why EVERY single pro arrives at impact with his hands WELL
>> > ahead of the ball with the iron.
>>
>> > None of them have the clubshaft vertical, or in line with their
>> > left arm. In EVERY case, an extension of the clubshaft
>> > (when viewed face-on) points outside the body, to the target
>> > side of the left shoulder.
>>
>> > Bitch.Alright, the subject.
>>
>> The purpose of striking the ball on a descending blow is to strike the
>> ball
>> first, the ground second. That is the immediate purpose. The ultimate
>> purpose in this specific technique is to send the ball to a target using
>> a
>> club. It is known that striking the ground will affect the club in
>> unpredictable fashion so it is best to strike the ball without having
>> struck
>> the ground prior so that we insure that the stroke is pure. As well as
>> doing
>> all that, striking the ground before the ball will rob the club of much
>> needed momentum that, preferably, we transfer to the ball whole.
>>
>> One effect of the descending blow is some added distance because the loft
>> is
>> reduced. Another is some extra spin imparted to the ball. In some cases
>> so
>> much spin is added that the ball will roll back after having landed,
>> especially on the green where the surface is smoother. This additional
>> spin
>> is often uncontrollable, instead it is preferable to impart just enough
>> spin
>> so that the ball lands and stops dead, something many professional
>> players
>> have a difficult time with.
>>
>> These effects were not intended at first but eventually were found to
>> help
>> the player in some cases. For example when the pin is tucked between an
>> obstacle and a feature of the green, it would be preferable to land the
>> ball
>> and have it stop dead where it lands.
>>
>> It is important to stress that the first intent of striking the ball on a
>> descending blow was and remains to strike the ball first, the ground
>> second
>> and the obvious effects of such a technique on accuracy.
>>
>> In other words, far is good, close is better.
>
> Ah, more "facts", but still missing the point. There is something
> fundamental
> that you seem to be completely unaware of. That is because you have
> not
> EXPERIENCED impact with an iron swing with the hands WELL ahead of the
> ball at impact (as all pro do). If you had had this experience, you
> would know
> what I am talking about immediately.
>
> If I am wrong about you lacking this experience, just post a video from
> the
> face-on view with an iron showing impact clearly.
>

There is no more point to make. I know of no other purpose than to send a
ball to a target using a club. The ball is what must be sent somewhere,
nothing else will count. The target is where the ball must be sent, anywhere
else will increase one's score. The club is what must be used to send the
ball to the target, anything else and the rules will be broken. There is
nothing more fundamental than that in golf.

Perhaps it is you, Birdie Bill, that is missing the point of golf.
Otherwise, enlighten us.

Date: 12 Jan 2007 12:36:41
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:21:24 -0500, "tin Levac"
<vac3@REMOVEvideotron.ca > wrote:

>There is no more point to make. I know of no other purpose than to send a
>ball to a target using a club. The ball is what must be sent somewhere,
>nothing else will count. The target is where the ball must be sent, anywhere
>else will increase one's score. The club is what must be used to send the
>ball to the target, anything else and the rules will be broken. There is
>nothing more fundamental than that in golf.

Of course, part of the game is determining the optimal target for your
abilities and the conditions.

Date: 12 Jan 2007 15:04:19
From: Martin Levac
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

"Howard Brazee" <howard@brazee.net > wrote in message
news:5oofq2drpfhmnqeke030c7s67pa38cln2m@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:21:24 -0500, "tin Levac"
> <vac3@REMOVEvideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>>There is no more point to make. I know of no other purpose than to send a
>>ball to a target using a club. The ball is what must be sent somewhere,
>>nothing else will count. The target is where the ball must be sent,
>>anywhere
>>else will increase one's score. The club is what must be used to send the
>>ball to the target, anything else and the rules will be broken. There is
>>nothing more fundamental than that in golf.
>
> Of course, part of the game is determining the optimal target for your
> abilities and the conditions.

Indeed choosing a target is important. Although I think that Birdie Bill is
speaking of a different aspect that he has yet to reveal to us.

Date: 11 Jan 2007 22:43:26
From: gpsman
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

David Laville wrote:
> On Sun, 7 Jan 2007 22:31:15 -0800, "Steve" <steve@bs-s.com> wrote:
>
> >Looking for a few hands leading the clubface drills to help me learn to hit
> >down more on the ball.
>
> Feel like the ball and your head are behind your hands at impact.

And exaggerate the hands as far behind as you can, and work
"backwards".

Chances are, you won't be able to exaggerate it too much beyond "too
much".

Worked for me.
-----

- gpsman

Date: 11 Jan 2007 22:27:47
From: Birdie Bill
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

On Jan 11, 11:56 pm, "tin Levac" <v...@REMOVEvideotron.ca > wrote:
> "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_b...@hotmail.com> wrote in messagenews:1168571758.567919.58580@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 10, 4:33 pm, "tin Levac" <v...@REMOVEvideotron.ca> wrote:
> >> "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_b...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> >> messagenews:1168444919.014952.73840@o58g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> > I'm surprised you don't understand the significance of what is being
> >> > discussed.
> >> > On the one hand, I might dismiss you as a troll, however, remembering
> >> > the extremely high trajectory of your swing video, I expect you really
> >> > don't have a clue. Consider the possiblity that you haven't learned
> >> > everything yet.
>
> >>Oh, Birdie Bill, Judge Of Everything And Anything, I bow down to your
> >> ultimate wisdom is this matter.
>
> >> On the other hand, go fuck yourself.
>
> > LOL, you really don't have a clue do you? It is like trying to explain
> > sex to a virgin. You think you know certain "facts" but you totally
> > miss the big picture. But anyone who has experienced it knows.
> > If you had experienced it, you would know as well. Have fun
> > as a golf virgin.
>It is presumptuous of you to state what I think: You can't possibly know
> that. Pretending to hold a secret is like a catch 22: If you reveal it,
> you'll never know. If you don't reveal it, you'll never know either. Perhaps
> the purpose is different, perhaps you wish to bring doubt in my mind about
> what I know. Perhaps I am missing some critical piece of information. No,
> sorry, I'm not missing anything.

No, I am responding to your first post in this thread, which no one
would have made if they had actually experienced impact with
the hands well ahead of the ball.

If you have experienced such impact, go ahead and post a video
from the face-on view that shows it. If you think that it doesn't
really matter, and that all you have to do is practice shots to
get the ball close to the target, then you might ask yourself
why EVERY single pro arrives at impact with his hands WELL
ahead of the ball with the iron.

None of them have the clubshaft vertical, or in line with their
left arm. In EVERY case, an extension of the clubshaft
(when viewed face-on) points outside the body, to the target
side of the left shoulder.

Bitch.

Date: 12 Jan 2007 02:01:37
From: Martin Levac
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

"Birdie Bill" <bighorn_bill@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1168583267.931844.302760@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> On Jan 11, 11:56 pm, "tin Levac" <v...@REMOVEvideotron.ca> wrote:
>> "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_b...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> messagenews:1168571758.567919.58580@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Jan 10, 4:33 pm, "tin Levac" <v...@REMOVEvideotron.ca> wrote:
>> >> "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_b...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> >> messagenews:1168444919.014952.73840@o58g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> >> > I'm surprised you don't understand the significance of what is being
>> >> > discussed.
>> >> > On the one hand, I might dismiss you as a troll, however,
>> >> > remembering
>> >> > the extremely high trajectory of your swing video, I expect you
>> >> > really
>> >> > don't have a clue. Consider the possiblity that you haven't learned
>> >> > everything yet.
>>
>> >>Oh, Birdie Bill, Judge Of Everything And Anything, I bow down to your
>> >> ultimate wisdom is this matter.
>>
>> >> On the other hand, go fuck yourself.
>>
>> > LOL, you really don't have a clue do you? It is like trying to explain
>> > sex to a virgin. You think you know certain "facts" but you totally
>> > miss the big picture. But anyone who has experienced it knows.
>> > If you had experienced it, you would know as well. Have fun
>> > as a golf virgin.
>>It is presumptuous of you to state what I think: You can't possibly know
>> that. Pretending to hold a secret is like a catch 22: If you reveal it,
>> you'll never know. If you don't reveal it, you'll never know either.
>> Perhaps
>> the purpose is different, perhaps you wish to bring doubt in my mind
>> about
>> what I know. Perhaps I am missing some critical piece of information. No,
>> sorry, I'm not missing anything.
>
> No, I am responding to your first post in this thread, which no one
> would have made if they had actually experienced impact with
> the hands well ahead of the ball.
>
> If you have experienced such impact, go ahead and post a video
> from the face-on view that shows it. If you think that it doesn't
> really matter, and that all you have to do is practice shots to
> get the ball close to the target, then you might ask yourself
> why EVERY single pro arrives at impact with his hands WELL
> ahead of the ball with the iron.
>
> None of them have the clubshaft vertical, or in line with their
> left arm. In EVERY case, an extension of the clubshaft
> (when viewed face-on) points outside the body, to the target
> side of the left shoulder.
>
> Bitch.
>

Alright, the subject.

The purpose of striking the ball on a descending blow is to strike the ball
first, the ground second. That is the immediate purpose. The ultimate
purpose in this specific technique is to send the ball to a target using a
club. It is known that striking the ground will affect the club in
unpredictable fashion so it is best to strike the ball without having struck
the ground prior so that we insure that the stroke is pure. As well as doing
all that, striking the ground before the ball will rob the club of much
needed momentum that, preferably, we transfer to the ball whole.

One effect of the descending blow is some added distance because the loft is
reduced. Another is some extra spin imparted to the ball. In some cases so
much spin is added that the ball will roll back after having landed,
especially on the green where the surface is smoother. This additional spin
is often uncontrollable, instead it is preferable to impart just enough spin
so that the ball lands and stops dead, something many professional players
have a difficult time with.

These effects were not intended at first but eventually were found to help
the player in some cases. For example when the pin is tucked between an
obstacle and a feature of the green, it would be preferable to land the ball
and have it stop dead where it lands.

It is important to stress that the first intent of striking the ball on a
descending blow was and remains to strike the ball first, the ground second
and the obvious effects of such a technique on accuracy.

In other words, far is good, close is better.

tin Levac

Date: 11 Jan 2007 19:15:58
From: Birdie Bill
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

On Jan 10, 4:33 pm, "tin Levac" <v...@REMOVEvideotron.ca > wrote:
> "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_b...@hotmail.com> wrote in messagenews:1168444919.014952.73840@o58g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
> > I'm surprised you don't understand the significance of what is being
> > discussed.
> > On the one hand, I might dismiss you as a troll, however, remembering
> > the extremely high trajectory of your swing video, I expect you really
> > don't have a clue. Consider the possiblity that you haven't learned
> > everything yet.
>
>Oh, Birdie Bill, Judge Of Everything And Anything, I bow down to your
> ultimate wisdom is this matter.
>
> On the other hand, go fuck yourself.
>

LOL, you really don't have a clue do you? It is like trying to explain
sex to a virgin. You think you know certain "facts" but you totally
miss the big picture. But anyone who has experienced it knows.
If you had experienced it, you would know as well. Have fun
as a golf virgin.

Date: 12 Jan 2007 00:56:14
From: Martin Levac
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

"Birdie Bill" <bighorn_bill@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1168571758.567919.58580@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> On Jan 10, 4:33 pm, "tin Levac" <v...@REMOVEvideotron.ca> wrote:
>> "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_b...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> messagenews:1168444919.014952.73840@o58g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > I'm surprised you don't understand the significance of what is being
>> > discussed.
>> > On the one hand, I might dismiss you as a troll, however, remembering
>> > the extremely high trajectory of your swing video, I expect you really
>> > don't have a clue. Consider the possiblity that you haven't learned
>> > everything yet.
>>
>>Oh, Birdie Bill, Judge Of Everything And Anything, I bow down to your
>> ultimate wisdom is this matter.
>>
>> On the other hand, go fuck yourself.
>>
>
> LOL, you really don't have a clue do you? It is like trying to explain
> sex to a virgin. You think you know certain "facts" but you totally
> miss the big picture. But anyone who has experienced it knows.
> If you had experienced it, you would know as well. Have fun
> as a golf virgin.
>

It is presumptuous of you to state what I think: You can't possibly know
that. Pretending to hold a secret is like a catch 22: If you reveal it,
you'll never know. If you don't reveal it, you'll never know either. Perhaps
the purpose is different, perhaps you wish to bring doubt in my mind about
what I know. Perhaps I am missing some critical piece of information. No,
sorry, I'm not missing anything.

Did you just call me noob on the internet? "Have fun as a golf virgin."
Dude, you need to lay off the internet because it's warping your brain big
time. Eh, now you look like a noob, Birdie Bill. Calling other people noob.
LOL, you don't know me and you probably never will and that suits me fine.
Lay off the personal attacks, they don't serve you well to tell you the
truth. Don't you know that what you write is how we judge you? As soon as
you make personal attacks, you look like a fool while the person you attack
is instead immune to the attacks. Unless he replies, which I did but that
doesn't bother me one bit, does it bother you, Birdie Bill? Does it bother
you that you look like a fool making personal attacks against a total
stranger by calling him a noob?

Mama, he just called me a noob, call the police!

Are you going to stop or would you rather we continue to troll the
intarwebs? You first. No you first, I insist. No you first, fuckhead. No you
first, troll. No you first, Birdie Bill.

Have you no respect for the original poster writing all this crap in his
thread? Stick to the fucking subject, please pretty fucking please. Wait, am
I talking to myself? Oh yes I am and that's fine with me.

Have a nice day.

ps. I just fucking lost it for a moment, it's alright now I promise.
Fuckhead.

tin Levac

Date: 12 Jan 2007 10:55:53
From: Bobby Knight
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 00:56:14 -0500, "tin Levac"
<vac3@REMOVEvideotron.ca > wrote:
<clip >

>Did you just call me noob on the internet? "Have fun as a golf virgin."
>Dude, you need to lay off the internet because it's warping your brain big
>time. Eh, now you look like a noob, Birdie Bill. Calling other people noob.
>LOL, you don't know me and you probably never will and that suits me fine.
>Lay off the personal attacks, they don't serve you well to tell you the
>truth. Don't you know that what you write is how we judge you? As soon as
>you make personal attacks, you look like a fool while the person you attack
>is instead immune to the attacks. Unless he replies, which I did but that
>doesn't bother me one bit, does it bother you, Birdie Bill? Does it bother
>you that you look like a fool making personal attacks against a total
>stranger by calling him a noob?
>
>Mama, he just called me a noob, call the police!
<clip >

This says all one needs to know about this idiot.
"-- "
___,
\o

Date: 12 Jan 2007 14:11:00
From: Martin Levac
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

"Bobby Knight" <bknight@conramp.net > wrote in message
news:48qeq21mf6cumiim6l6k5piusr8337j2u8@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 00:56:14 -0500, "tin Levac"
> <vac3@REMOVEvideotron.ca> wrote:
> <clip>
>
>>Did you just call me noob on the internet? "Have fun as a golf virgin."
>>Dude, you need to lay off the internet because it's warping your brain big
>>time. Eh, now you look like a noob, Birdie Bill. Calling other people
>>noob.
>>LOL, you don't know me and you probably never will and that suits me fine.
>>Lay off the personal attacks, they don't serve you well to tell you the
>>truth. Don't you know that what you write is how we judge you? As soon as
>>you make personal attacks, you look like a fool while the person you
>>attack
>>is instead immune to the attacks. Unless he replies, which I did but that
>>doesn't bother me one bit, does it bother you, Birdie Bill? Does it bother
>>you that you look like a fool making personal attacks against a total
>>stranger by calling him a noob?
>>
>>Mama, he just called me a noob, call the police!
> <clip>
>
> This says all one needs to know about this idiot.
> "-- "
> ___,
> \o
>

Date: 12 Jan 2007 13:19:27
From: Bobby Knight
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:11:00 -0500, "tin Levac"
<vac3@REMOVEvideotron.ca > wrote:

>
>"Bobby Knight" <bknight@conramp.net> wrote in message
>news:48qeq21mf6cumiim6l6k5piusr8337j2u8@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 00:56:14 -0500, "tin Levac"
>> <vac3@REMOVEvideotron.ca> wrote:
>> <clip>
>>
>>>Did you just call me noob on the internet? "Have fun as a golf virgin."
>>>Dude, you need to lay off the internet because it's warping your brain big
>>>time. Eh, now you look like a noob, Birdie Bill. Calling other people
>>>noob.
>>>LOL, you don't know me and you probably never will and that suits me fine.
>>>Lay off the personal attacks, they don't serve you well to tell you the
>>>truth. Don't you know that what you write is how we judge you? As soon as
>>>you make personal attacks, you look like a fool while the person you
>>>attack
>>>is instead immune to the attacks. Unless he replies, which I did but that
>>>doesn't bother me one bit, does it bother you, Birdie Bill? Does it bother
>>>you that you look like a fool making personal attacks against a total
>>>stranger by calling him a noob?
>>>
>>>Mama, he just called me a noob, call the police!
>> <clip>
>>
>> This says all one needs to know about this idiot.

>> bk
>
>Which idiot do you speak of?
>
You da only one, since you were initiated personal attacks and now
point the finger at others. Bill has a long, and usually civil,
history here. The mere fact that he's called you out says little for
you.
--
___,
\o

Date: 12 Jan 2007 14:58:55
From: Martin Levac
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

"Bobby Knight" <bknight@conramp.net > wrote in message
news:ahnfq25nof4bulcmq1nvhk2ktb3f5338p4@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:11:00 -0500, "tin Levac"
> <vac3@REMOVEvideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Bobby Knight" <bknight@conramp.net> wrote in message
>>news:48qeq21mf6cumiim6l6k5piusr8337j2u8@4ax.com...
>>> On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 00:56:14 -0500, "tin Levac"
>>> <vac3@REMOVEvideotron.ca> wrote:
>>> <clip>
>>>
>>>>Did you just call me noob on the internet? "Have fun as a golf virgin."
>>>>Dude, you need to lay off the internet because it's warping your brain
>>>>big
>>>>time. Eh, now you look like a noob, Birdie Bill. Calling other people
>>>>noob.
>>>>LOL, you don't know me and you probably never will and that suits me
>>>>fine.
>>>>Lay off the personal attacks, they don't serve you well to tell you the
>>>>truth. Don't you know that what you write is how we judge you? As soon
>>>>as
>>>>you make personal attacks, you look like a fool while the person you
>>>>attack
>>>>is instead immune to the attacks. Unless he replies, which I did but
>>>>that
>>>>doesn't bother me one bit, does it bother you, Birdie Bill? Does it
>>>>bother
>>>>you that you look like a fool making personal attacks against a total
>>>>stranger by calling him a noob?
>>>>
>>>>Mama, he just called me a noob, call the police!
>>> <clip>
>>>
>>> This says all one needs to know about this idiot.
>
>>> bk
>>
>>Which idiot do you speak of?
>>
> You da only one, since you were initiated personal attacks and now
> point the finger at others. Bill has a long, and usually civil,
> history here. The mere fact that he's called you out says little for
> you.
> --
> ___,
> \o
>

Date: 10 Jan 2007 08:01:59
From: Birdie Bill
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

On Jan 8, 2:33 pm, "tin Levac" <v...@REMOVEvideotron.ca > wrote:
> "Steve" <s...@bs-s.com> wrote in messagenews:5N6dnSMZMoWveDzYnZ2dnUVZ_hynnZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>
> > Looking for a few hands leading the clubface drills to help me learn to
> > hit down more on the ball.
>
> > Thanks,
> > SteveWell, you could start by putting your hands in front of the clubhead. Then
> you could exagerate this motion so much so that you'd actually prevent the
> clubhead from swinging past the point of impact because it will be stopped
> by the ground it hits after the ball. Then, you could realise that you can't
> actualy hit down on the ball unless you want to send it down into the
> ground. Then, you could realise that you don't actually hit down on the
> ball, instead you strike the ball with a descending blow but in fact you
> strike the ball below the equator so that it is propelled above the horizon.
> Then, you could forget about the whole thing and just hit the ball.
>
> Yeah, that's it, just hit the ball to send it to the target.
>
> Wait, did you want to send the ball farther? Did you infer that by hitting
> down on the ball you'd send it farther?
>
> Farther than what?
>
> How much farther than the target do you want to send the ball? Once you find
> the answer to that one, give me a call.
>
> In the mean time, you could go to the range and hit 500 balls to the target.
> Or not. It all depends on whether you want to increase your ability or not.

I'm surprised you don't understand the significance of what is being
discussed.
On the one hand, I might dismiss you as a troll, however, remembering
the extremely high trajectory of your swing video, I expect you really
don't have a clue. Consider the possiblity that you haven't learned
everything yet.

Date: 11 Jan 2007 02:56:09
From: David Laville
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

On 10 Jan 2007 08:01:59 -0800, "Birdie Bill"
<bighorn_bill@hotmail.com > wrote:

>I'm surprised you don't understand the significance of what is being
>discussed.

Trolls can care less.

>On the one hand, I might dismiss you as a troll, however, remembering
>the extremely high trajectory of your swing video, I expect you really
>don't have a clue. Consider the possiblity that you haven't learned
>everything yet.

All trolls care about is posting garbage to see how many replies it
generates.

David Laville, G.S.E.M.
The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor
TB-8982

Date: 10 Jan 2007 17:33:24
From: Martin Levac
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

"Birdie Bill" <bighorn_bill@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1168444919.014952.73840@o58g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> On Jan 8, 2:33 pm, "tin Levac" <v...@REMOVEvideotron.ca> wrote:
>> "Steve" <s...@bs-s.com> wrote in
>> messagenews:5N6dnSMZMoWveDzYnZ2dnUVZ_hynnZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>>
>> > Looking for a few hands leading the clubface drills to help me learn to
>> > hit down more on the ball.
>>
>> > Thanks,
>> > SteveWell, you could start by putting your hands in front of the
>> > clubhead. Then
>> you could exagerate this motion so much so that you'd actually prevent
>> the
>> clubhead from swinging past the point of impact because it will be
>> stopped
>> by the ground it hits after the ball. Then, you could realise that you
>> can't
>> actualy hit down on the ball unless you want to send it down into the
>> ground. Then, you could realise that you don't actually hit down on the
>> ball, instead you strike the ball with a descending blow but in fact you
>> strike the ball below the equator so that it is propelled above the
>> horizon.
>> Then, you could forget about the whole thing and just hit the ball.
>>
>> Yeah, that's it, just hit the ball to send it to the target.
>>
>> Wait, did you want to send the ball farther? Did you infer that by
>> hitting
>> down on the ball you'd send it farther?
>>
>> Farther than what?
>>
>> How much farther than the target do you want to send the ball? Once you
>> find
>> the answer to that one, give me a call.
>>
>> In the mean time, you could go to the range and hit 500 balls to the
>> target.
>> Or not. It all depends on whether you want to increase your ability or
>> not.
>
> I'm surprised you don't understand the significance of what is being
> discussed.
> On the one hand, I might dismiss you as a troll, however, remembering
> the extremely high trajectory of your swing video, I expect you really
> don't have a clue. Consider the possiblity that you haven't learned
> everything yet.
>

Oh, Birdie Bill, Judge Of Everything And Anything, I bow down to your
ultimate wisdom is this matter.

On the other hand, go fuck yourself.

Was that clear enough for you? Or would you prefer that I explain it further
as I would to a 4 year old? No, scratch that, a 4 year old would understand
the first time.

That you are surprised does not surprise me. That you infer that I don't
understand shows how much you understand. That you don't address what is
being discussed brings doubts in my mind and others' as to your honesty in
this matter. That you mention me and a video I appear in shows just exactly
what subject you wish to address.

Now, you consider the possibility that you can go fuck yourself. That is, if
you have the ability to do even that.

Stick to the fucking subject, otherwise you are a fucking troll. I am the
other troll that has already addressed the subject pointing out that you
haven't. Yet. If you do not address the subject in a timely fashion
following your off topic post, finish this sentence, Birdie Bill.

Sincerely,

tin Levac

Date: 11 Jan 2007 03:00:22
From: David Laville
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 17:33:24 -0500, "tin Levac"
<vac3@REMOVEvideotron.ca > wrote:

> I am the
>other troll that has already addressed the subject pointing out that you
>haven't.

This should remove any doubt.

David Laville, G.S.E.M.
The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor
TB-8982

Date: 10 Jan 2007 01:54:31
From: David Laville
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

On Sun, 7 Jan 2007 22:31:15 -0800, "Steve" <steve@bs-s.com > wrote:

>Looking for a few hands leading the clubface drills to help me learn to hit
>down more on the ball.

Feel like the ball and your head are behind your hands at impact.

David Laville, G.S.E.M.
The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor
TB-8982

Date: 09 Jan 2007 00:26:21
From: Dave Lee
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

Date: 08 Jan 2007 15:33:40
From: Martin Levac
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

"Steve" <steve@bs-s.com > wrote in message
news:5N6dnSMZMoWveDzYnZ2dnUVZ_hynnZ2d@speakeasy.net...
> Looking for a few hands leading the clubface drills to help me learn to
> hit down more on the ball.
>
> Thanks,
> Steve
>

Well, you could start by putting your hands in front of the clubhead. Then
you could exagerate this motion so much so that you'd actually prevent the
clubhead from swinging past the point of impact because it will be stopped
by the ground it hits after the ball. Then, you could realise that you can't
actualy hit down on the ball unless you want to send it down into the
ground. Then, you could realise that you don't actually hit down on the
ball, instead you strike the ball with a descending blow but in fact you
strike the ball below the equator so that it is propelled above the horizon.
Then, you could forget about the whole thing and just hit the ball.

Yeah, that's it, just hit the ball to send it to the target.

Wait, did you want to send the ball farther? Did you infer that by hitting
down on the ball you'd send it farther?

Farther than what?

How much farther than the target do you want to send the ball? Once you find
the answer to that one, give me a call.

In the mean time, you could go to the range and hit 500 balls to the target.
Or not. It all depends on whether you want to increase your ability or not.

Date: 12 Jan 2007 14:34:27
From: adam henry
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

On Mon, 8 Jan 2007 15:33:40 -0500, "tin Levac"
<vac3@REMOVEvideotron.ca > wrote:

>
>"Steve" <steve@bs-s.com> wrote in message
>news:5N6dnSMZMoWveDzYnZ2dnUVZ_hynnZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>> Looking for a few hands leading the clubface drills to help me learn to
>> hit down more on the ball.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Steve
>>
>
>Well, you could start by putting your hands in front of the clubhead. Then
>you could exagerate this motion so much so that you'd actually prevent the
>clubhead from swinging past the point of impact because it will be stopped
>by the ground it hits after the ball. Then, you could realise that you can't
>actualy hit down on the ball unless you want to send it down into the
>ground. Then, you could realise that you don't actually hit down on the
>ball, instead you strike the ball with a descending blow but in fact you
>strike the ball below the equator so that it is propelled above the horizon.
>Then, you could forget about the whole thing and just hit the ball.

is levac french for clueless idiot?

Date: 12 Jan 2007 15:06:57
From: Martin Levac
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

"adam henry" <ahole@here.com > wrote in message
news:1lofq25hamig46luom9qmfvvehqik5qujq@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 8 Jan 2007 15:33:40 -0500, "tin Levac"
> <vac3@REMOVEvideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Steve" <steve@bs-s.com> wrote in message
>>news:5N6dnSMZMoWveDzYnZ2dnUVZ_hynnZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>>> Looking for a few hands leading the clubface drills to help me learn to
>>> hit down more on the ball.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Steve
>>>
>>
>>Well, you could start by putting your hands in front of the clubhead. Then
>>you could exagerate this motion so much so that you'd actually prevent the
>>clubhead from swinging past the point of impact because it will be stopped
>>by the ground it hits after the ball. Then, you could realise that you
>>can't
>>actualy hit down on the ball unless you want to send it down into the
>>ground. Then, you could realise that you don't actually hit down on the
>>ball, instead you strike the ball with a descending blow but in fact you
>>strike the ball below the equator so that it is propelled above the
>>horizon.
>>Then, you could forget about the whole thing and just hit the ball.
>
> is levac french for clueless idiot?
>
>

Wow, I haven't seen such a sentence construction since third grade. Are you
sure you are allowed to use the computer, Adam Henry? Best you ask your
mother right away.

Date: 12 Jan 2007 15:31:14
From: adam henry
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 15:06:57 -0500, "tin Levac"
<vac3@REMOVEvideotron.ca > wrote:

>
>"adam henry" <ahole@here.com> wrote in message
>news:1lofq25hamig46luom9qmfvvehqik5qujq@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 8 Jan 2007 15:33:40 -0500, "tin Levac"
>> <vac3@REMOVEvideotron.ca> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Steve" <steve@bs-s.com> wrote in message
>>>news:5N6dnSMZMoWveDzYnZ2dnUVZ_hynnZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>>>> Looking for a few hands leading the clubface drills to help me learn to
>>>> hit down more on the ball.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>
>>>Well, you could start by putting your hands in front of the clubhead. Then
>>>you could exagerate this motion so much so that you'd actually prevent the
>>>clubhead from swinging past the point of impact because it will be stopped
>>>by the ground it hits after the ball. Then, you could realise that you
>>>can't
>>>actualy hit down on the ball unless you want to send it down into the
>>>ground. Then, you could realise that you don't actually hit down on the
>>>ball, instead you strike the ball with a descending blow but in fact you
>>>strike the ball below the equator so that it is propelled above the
>>>horizon.
>>>Then, you could forget about the whole thing and just hit the ball.
>>
>> is levac french for clueless idiot?
>>
>>
>
>Wow, I haven't seen such a sentence construction since third grade. Are you
>sure you are allowed to use the computer, Adam Henry? Best you ask your
>mother right away.
>

actually i asked your mother last night. i couldnt understand what
she said seeing her mouth was so full at the time. oh well.

Date: 12 Jan 2007 15:47:44
From: Martin Levac
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

"adam henry" <ahole@here.com > wrote in message
news:hgrfq2t2gek80p8883vaftmi1lbi8ip8n3@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 15:06:57 -0500, "tin Levac"
> <vac3@REMOVEvideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>>
>>"adam henry" <ahole@here.com> wrote in message
>>news:1lofq25hamig46luom9qmfvvehqik5qujq@4ax.com...
>>> On Mon, 8 Jan 2007 15:33:40 -0500, "tin Levac"
>>> <vac3@REMOVEvideotron.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Steve" <steve@bs-s.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:5N6dnSMZMoWveDzYnZ2dnUVZ_hynnZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>>>>> Looking for a few hands leading the clubface drills to help me learn
>>>>> to
>>>>> hit down more on the ball.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Steve
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Well, you could start by putting your hands in front of the clubhead.
>>>>Then
>>>>you could exagerate this motion so much so that you'd actually prevent
>>>>the
>>>>clubhead from swinging past the point of impact because it will be
>>>>stopped
>>>>by the ground it hits after the ball. Then, you could realise that you
>>>>can't
>>>>actualy hit down on the ball unless you want to send it down into the
>>>>ground. Then, you could realise that you don't actually hit down on the
>>>>ball, instead you strike the ball with a descending blow but in fact you
>>>>strike the ball below the equator so that it is propelled above the
>>>>horizon.
>>>>Then, you could forget about the whole thing and just hit the ball.
>>>
>>> is levac french for clueless idiot?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Wow, I haven't seen such a sentence construction since third grade. Are
>>you
>>sure you are allowed to use the computer, Adam Henry? Best you ask your
>>mother right away.
>>
>
> actually i asked your mother last night. i couldnt understand what
> she said seeing her mouth was so full at the time. oh well.

That's quite understandable, my mother has a very small mouth. Which says
quite a bit about you, Adam Henry. Don't worry, my mother likes boys. Hey,
that would make you a motherfucker, LOL! Are you really really sure you have
permission to use the computer?

Oh my. Somebody call the police! Help! Help! I'm being assailed by a
stranger on the internet! This stranger speaks of my mother! What a brute.
How rude.

Shall we continue to see who cracks? I'm quite prepared to deal with the
likes of you,
Adam Henry. Push my buttons, will you? Wait, is that all you can do, push
buttons? I'm so sorry, I'll refrain from making any comment on your
condition. My apology.

I mean, with comments like these:

>>>
>>> is levac french for clueless idiot?
>
> actually i asked your mother last night. i couldnt understand what
> she said seeing her mouth was so full at the time. oh well.

It is obvious that you are lacking essential skills to cope with the world
around you. Stay in school, Adam Henry, you need it.

See you on the course.

tin Levac

Date: 12 Jan 2007 19:18:26
From: adam henry
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 15:47:44 -0500, "tin Levac"
<vac3@REMOVEvideotron.ca > wrote:

>It is obvious that you are lacking essential skills to cope with the world
>around you. Stay in school, Adam Henry, you need it.
>
>See you on the course.
>
>
>tin Levac
>

you are boring me now frenchy. tell your mom i said hi.

Date: 12 Jan 2007 20:39:33
From: Martin Levac
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

"adam henry" <ahole@here.com > wrote in message
news:449gq2p4mafaivje8cmholm5pfn2h61fn0@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 15:47:44 -0500, "tin Levac"
> <vac3@REMOVEvideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>>It is obvious that you are lacking essential skills to cope with the world
>>around you. Stay in school, Adam Henry, you need it.
>>
>>See you on the course.
>>
>>
>>tin Levac
>>
>
> you are boring me now frenchy. tell your mom i said hi.

Oh my, I bore YOU?!? That is honestly difficult to imagine what with all the
intelligence you've shown us. I mean, you'd think that you would bore me
instead. You can tell my mom whatever you want yourself.

Date: 08 Jan 2007 07:41:22
From: Birdie Bill
Subject: Re: Hands leading the club face at impact drills

On Jan 8, 12:31 am, "Steve" <s...@bs-s.com > wrote:
> Looking for a few hands leading the clubface drills to help me learn to hit
> down more on the ball.
>

Get the book "The Secret of Golf" by George
Pepper. Read, especially, the chapters on Dante,
Hogan, and Bertholy to understand what you
are trying to do, and how to go about it. Betholy's
"golden exercise" is very good, it is a variation on
the "split hands" drill.

You might invest in a "Chip and Pitch" shaft
extension and practice making swings without
the extension hitting your side.

Another good exercise, or series of exercises:

Start with the clubhead behind the ball, and with
no backswing just fling the ball forward as hard
as you can, leading with the lower body.

Next, take the club back to where it is first parallel
to the ground and target line on the backswing.
Pause there and then with no further backswing,
hit the ball by leading with the lower body and
dragging the clubhead.

Finally (once you can do the first two exercises well)
do the same exercise starting with the hands in the
9:00 position.

When you do these exercises, use video (face on view)
to verify what the hands and clubhead are doing at
impact. It is the only way you will know.

Well, almost the only way. Another thing you can
do is put a vertical line on the back of your range ball
using a dry-erase ker. When you hit the ball,
a k will show up on your clubface. If you are
hitting the ball properly, the k will be centered
on the 5th groove up from the bottom.

Avoid practicing on mats, if you can. Practice on turf,
or better yet, bare lies on sandy soil. The only way
you can hit those shots clean is if the hands are
ahead of the ball at impact.