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Main
Date: 13 Oct 2006 15:50:30
From: Dave Lee
Subject: Following the Rules
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I consider myself an honest golfer. But after the "Integrity at the Club
Level" thread, I wonder if my standards of honesty might be quite dishonest
by other's standards.
I'd never thought about this before, but I follow the ROG to two different
levels depending...
1) When playing with folks I know in regular games
2) When playing competitively against folks I don't know well or most
'formal competitions'
There are a couple of things that I do in case #1 that I generally wouldn't
do in #2
1) I carry a 3i as a practice alignment club and occasional practice hitting
club. I just don't use it EVER on the course (unless I make a formal windy
day swap-out decision before the start of the round). But it is frequently
in my bag (club #15).
2) I am not careful on the putting green and I'm sure (but don't know when)
that there have been times when I have putted out with a different ball than
I started with (same make/model). I always carry three balls and am trying
to get in the habit of either not ever putting my in play ball in my pocket
or putting it in the other pocket.
3) I sometimes use the alignment line that I put on all my golf balls and
will occasionally tweak the alignment a bit without king. BTW, is it
legal to 'k' with the end of your putter when doing this? I'm just not
going to slow down play even a little bit to muck with a ker, but the
putter solution would be acceptable to me.
4) I once tried out a driver that I was unsure of and carried my old driver
as well (15 clubs - or maybe 16 if the 3i was in the bag). As feared all
rightside hell broke loose and I switched back to the old one midround.
Just wondered what other 'honest golfers' do or don't do WRT stuff like
this. FWIW the number of rounds that I play in category #2 are surprisingly
rare (maybe a couple rounds/year).
dave
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Date: 16 Oct 2006 00:56:20
From: Noons
Subject: Re: Following the Rules
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Howard Brazee wrote:
>
> Interesting - in another thread people thought it was odd that I hung
> around people who don't fight. Maybe it's odd that I hang around
> people who don't cheat.
What else can be said? You are PERFECT!
<snork >
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Date: 16 Oct 2006 13:27:32
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: Following the Rules
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On 16 Oct 2006 00:56:20 -0700, "Noons" <wizofoz2k@yahoo.com.au > wrote:
>> Interesting - in another thread people thought it was odd that I hung
>> around people who don't fight. Maybe it's odd that I hang around
>> people who don't cheat.
>
>What else can be said? You are PERFECT!
><snork>
Huh? I was talking about the people I observe, not myself.
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Date: 16 Oct 2006 01:10:15
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: Following the Rules
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On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 15:50:30 GMT, "Dave Lee"
<DaveLeeNC@ix.netcom.RemovE.com > wrote:
>Just wondered what other 'honest golfers' do or don't do WRT stuff like
>this. FWIW the number of rounds that I play in category #2 are surprisingly
>rare (maybe a couple rounds/year).
I break rules where doing so is more considerate than breaking them.
That can include emulating stroke and distance and advice - but when I
do so, I say out loud that I am breaking the rule. There is a very
good reason for this - I don't want to forget about this rule when it
really counts.
I would be foolish if I forgot a rule when it counts because I was
used to breaking it when it doesn't.
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Date: 15 Oct 2006 00:14:55
From: Dave Lee
Subject: Re: Following the Rules
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Re: attached plus all the other interesting discussion in this thread
The item that struck a chord with me in this discussion was folks who play a
fair amount of formal/compeititve golf and don't want to build bad habits.
That makes a lot of sense, although that really doesn't apply to me (I play
very little competitive golf). But I would surely miss my 3i as I would
envariably not have it when I wanted it or have when I didn't want it.
But it does remind me of an interesting story from a while back. A friend
had just finished playing a Member-Guest tournament somewhere in South
Carolina and I asked him how it went. He was obviously irritated and said
something like "would have been great if my partner had been able to make 18
inch putts".
He then went on to say "I'll bet this guy hadn't putted an 18 inch putt in
10 years. He was lucky to be making half of them by the end of the
tournament".
There is one example of the problem with always picking up the short ones.
dave
"Dave Lee" <DaveLeeNC@ix.netcom.RemovE.com > wrote in message
news:aBOXg.13328$UG4.1387@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> I consider myself an honest golfer. But after the "Integrity at the Club
> Level" thread, I wonder if my standards of honesty might be quite
dishonest
> by other's standards.
>
> I'd never thought about this before, but I follow the ROG to two different
> levels depending...
>
> 1) When playing with folks I know in regular games
> 2) When playing competitively against folks I don't know well or most
> 'formal competitions'
>
> There are a couple of things that I do in case #1 that I generally
wouldn't
> do in #2
>
> 1) I carry a 3i as a practice alignment club and occasional practice
hitting
> club. I just don't use it EVER on the course (unless I make a formal windy
> day swap-out decision before the start of the round). But it is frequently
> in my bag (club #15).
>
> 2) I am not careful on the putting green and I'm sure (but don't know
when)
> that there have been times when I have putted out with a different ball
than
> I started with (same make/model). I always carry three balls and am trying
> to get in the habit of either not ever putting my in play ball in my
pocket
> or putting it in the other pocket.
>
> 3) I sometimes use the alignment line that I put on all my golf balls and
> will occasionally tweak the alignment a bit without king. BTW, is it
> legal to 'k' with the end of your putter when doing this? I'm just not
> going to slow down play even a little bit to muck with a ker, but the
> putter solution would be acceptable to me.
>
> 4) I once tried out a driver that I was unsure of and carried my old
driver
> as well (15 clubs - or maybe 16 if the 3i was in the bag). As feared all
> rightside hell broke loose and I switched back to the old one midround.
>
> Just wondered what other 'honest golfers' do or don't do WRT stuff like
> this. FWIW the number of rounds that I play in category #2 are
surprisingly
> rare (maybe a couple rounds/year).
>
> dave
>
>
>
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Date: 10 Nov 2006 17:06:10
From: Shintaro
Subject: Re: Following the Rules
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*Snip* about gimmes on short putts.
> He then went on to say "I'll bet this guy hadn't putted an 18 inch putt in
> 10 years. He was lucky to be making half of them by the end of the
> tournament".
>
> There is one example of the problem with always picking up the short ones.
I just can't stand it when the group in front takes, literally, 15 secs
each, excluding time to *read the line* on their 12 inches putts on a
weekend in a crowded course(pretty much all the courses).
It's an extreme example but the round could be extended by up to half an
hour on freaking putts where they have to step away before bending down
to pick up their ball from the cup.
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Date: 14 Oct 2006 07:28:14
From: Noons
Subject: Re: Following the Rules
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Bobby Knight wrote:
> That should be everyone's attitude. I don't give a crap what someone
> else does, unless I have a bet with them, or we're in a tournament. If
> they want to turn in an 85 when they shot 100, that will only put them
> in trouble when they do want to bet, or play in a tournament.
Couldn't agree more.
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Date: 14 Oct 2006 05:48:25
From: Birdie Bill
Subject: Re: Following the Rules
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On Oct 13, 9:02 pm, "EdSmithers" <spirosdarlo...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> multi wrote:
> > And if I took my grandkids golfing, I would consider
> > teaching them the rules at least as important as teaching them the
> > Vardon grip.Oh man, my grandkids get lots of rules pushed onto them by their
> parents and their teachers. I've seen my granddaughter crying because
> her dad yelled at her for not bumping the ball correctly in a
> volleyball game in their back yard!
>
> So, mileage varies for everyone, but for me, a sunny afternoon with my
> grandkids means nobody - not even ROG - tells us what we have to do.
Whole-heartedly agree. As Harvey Penick said, there are no rules for
beginners.
Keep it fun, and keep the group moving. There is no sense in forcing a
rank
beginner to play strict rules of golf and backing up the whole course
behind
you.
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Date: 13 Oct 2006 23:51:59
From: Noons
Subject: Re: Following the Rules
|
FredK wrote:
> In my experience I have yet to play with someone who plays "strickly" by the
> rules.
Bingo. Under those conditions, of course: outside of club comps
or handicap stats.
> I have *never* seen someone return to the tee after finding their
> ball OB or losing their ball outside a hazard - and usually they handle it
> as if it were a lateral hazard and drop it and take a stroke - guessing at
> about where it should have gone. I have "occasionally" seen a "real"
> provisional - more often it's a "do over" (mulligan, whatever). I've seen
> people who roll their ball in the fairway. Pick it up and clean it at any
> time. I saw an old guy who built a little "tee" out of grass for his ball
> when he was on the fairway or in the rough. Almost everybody picks up a
> putt from time to time. First tee mulligans are more common than not.
Hmmmm, I'm waiting for the turds here to start complaining.
But of course, they won't. It's only when it's "convenient"...
> As much as purists decry it - the common, non-competition golf game played
> in the US has some generally followed "altered rules" from the ROG:
Not just the US....
> 1) First tee mulligans - usually agreed to prior to teeing off. Sometimes
> there is a more liberal "mulligan a side".
Yup: been there done that. Not much, but it happens.
> 2) OB is treated as a lateral hazard and the ball is dropped approximately
> where it went out of bounds with a 1 stroke penalty
Quite common in public courses here. They are mostly under
a permanent state of repair anyways...
> 3) Lost balls are treated the same as 2 with a guesstimate of about where
> the ball should be.
Not much here. But yes, I've seen it. And overseas as well,
namely Fiji.
> 4) After 3 putts, the next putt is a gimme no matter what the distance.
Nope, haven't seen this one.
> 5) You can give someone a putt, even if it isn't really that close or even
> if he missed it.
Seen this one quite often.
> 6) Divots treated as ground under repair
Same. Quite common.
> 7) Touching the sand in a bunker "a little" just before the swing is not a
> penalty
Nope, not this one. Sand is always a nail-biter here...
But I like the idea! :-)
> 8) Posting the score following these revised rules into GHIN is OK
Nope, not seen this one.
> Now. I imagine the responses here will be "THAT'S NOT GOLF! IT'S SOMETHING
> ELSE." or "YOU CAN'T AGREE TO ALTER THE ROG, THE ROG EXPLICITLY SAYS YOU
> CAN'T!" or "CHEATERS!" or "AMERICANS!"
Narh. You haven't aggravated the "little club" here as much
as others have: they won't even bother.
But the vast majority of other sensible amateur players here
would do the obvious and just accept what you said as reality.
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Date: 16 Oct 2006 01:31:17
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: Following the Rules
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On 13 Oct 2006 23:51:59 -0700, "Noons" <wizofoz2k@yahoo.com.au > wrote:
>> In my experience I have yet to play with someone who plays "strickly" by the
>> rules.
>
>Bingo. Under those conditions, of course: outside of club comps
>or handicap stats.
Interesting - in another thread people thought it was odd that I hung
around people who don't fight. Maybe it's odd that I hang around
people who don't cheat.
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Date: 13 Oct 2006 21:12:56
From: chapelle golf accadamy
Subject: Re: Following the Rules
|
Dave Lee wrote:
> I consider myself an honest golfer. But after the "Integrity at the Club
> Level" thread, I wonder if my standards of honesty might be quite dishonest
> by other's standards.
>
> I'd never thought about this before, but I follow the ROG to two different
> levels depending...
>
> 1) When playing with folks I know in regular games
> 2) When playing competitively against folks I don't know well or most
> 'formal competitions'
>
> There are a couple of things that I do in case #1 that I generally wouldn't
> do in #2
>
> 1) I carry a 3i as a practice alignment club and occasional practice hitting
> club. I just don't use it EVER on the course (unless I make a formal windy
> day swap-out decision before the start of the round). But it is frequently
> in my bag (club #15).
>
> 2) I am not careful on the putting green and I'm sure (but don't know when)
> that there have been times when I have putted out with a different ball than
> I started with (same make/model). I always carry three balls and am trying
> to get in the habit of either not ever putting my in play ball in my pocket
> or putting it in the other pocket.
>
> 3) I sometimes use the alignment line that I put on all my golf balls and
> will occasionally tweak the alignment a bit without king. BTW, is it
> legal to 'k' with the end of your putter when doing this? I'm just not
> going to slow down play even a little bit to muck with a ker, but the
> putter solution would be acceptable to me.
>
> 4) I once tried out a driver that I was unsure of and carried my old driver
> as well (15 clubs - or maybe 16 if the 3i was in the bag). As feared all
> rightside hell broke loose and I switched back to the old one midround.
>
> Just wondered what other 'honest golfers' do or don't do WRT stuff like
> this. FWIW the number of rounds that I play in category #2 are surprisingly
> rare (maybe a couple rounds/year).
>
> dave
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Date: 13 Oct 2006 19:07:17
From: EdSmithers
Subject: Re: Following the Rules
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FredK wrote:
> Now. I imagine the responses here will be "THAT'S NOT GOLF! IT'S SOMETHING
> ELSE." or "YOU CAN'T AGREE TO ALTER THE ROG, THE ROG EXPLICITLY SAYS YOU
> CAN'T!" or "CHEATERS!" or "AMERICANS!"
Fred, you are a brave soul. What you describe is exactly like ALL of
the golf I see, but I'm just a recreational player. The professional
amateurs here on the newsgroup are going to tee you up like a pinata
and it's best just to ignore it.
Thanks for your great post.
Ed
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Date: 14 Oct 2006 09:16:00
From: John van der Pflum
Subject: Re: Following the Rules
|
On 13 Oct 2006 19:07:17 -0700, "EdSmithers" <spirosdarlotts@yahoo.com >
wrote:
>
>FredK wrote:
>
>> Now. I imagine the responses here will be "THAT'S NOT GOLF! IT'S SOMETHING
>> ELSE." or "YOU CAN'T AGREE TO ALTER THE ROG, THE ROG EXPLICITLY SAYS YOU
>> CAN'T!" or "CHEATERS!" or "AMERICANS!"
>
>
>Fred, you are a brave soul. What you describe is exactly like ALL of
>the golf I see, but I'm just a recreational player. The professional
>amateurs here on the newsgroup are going to tee you up like a pinata
>and it's best just to ignore it.
>
>Thanks for your great post.
>
>Ed
Ed,
Play whatever rules you want. I really don't care too much what YOU
are doing. I'm doing my thing.
Just don't say I owe you a beer because you won the nassau, and don't
play that way in a tournament and expect to get away with it.
--
http://www.rsgcincinnati.com
jvdp
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Date: 14 Oct 2006 08:58:28
From: Bobby Knight
Subject: Re: Following the Rules
|
On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 09:16:00 -0400, John van der Pflum
<jpflumjr@ughookugh.com > wrote:
>On 13 Oct 2006 19:07:17 -0700, "EdSmithers" <spirosdarlotts@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>FredK wrote:
>>
>>> Now. I imagine the responses here will be "THAT'S NOT GOLF! IT'S SOMETHING
>>> ELSE." or "YOU CAN'T AGREE TO ALTER THE ROG, THE ROG EXPLICITLY SAYS YOU
>>> CAN'T!" or "CHEATERS!" or "AMERICANS!"
>>
>>
>>Fred, you are a brave soul. What you describe is exactly like ALL of
>>the golf I see, but I'm just a recreational player. The professional
>>amateurs here on the newsgroup are going to tee you up like a pinata
>>and it's best just to ignore it.
>>
>>Thanks for your great post.
>>
>>Ed
>
>Ed,
>
>Play whatever rules you want. I really don't care too much what YOU
>are doing. I'm doing my thing.
>
>Just don't say I owe you a beer because you won the nassau, and don't
>play that way in a tournament and expect to get away with it.
That should be everyone's attitude. I don't give a crap what someone
else does, unless I have a bet with them, or we're in a tournament. If
they want to turn in an 85 when they shot 100, that will only put them
in trouble when they do want to bet, or play in a tournament.
___,
\o
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Date: 13 Oct 2006 19:02:43
From: EdSmithers
Subject: Re: Following the Rules
|
multi wrote:
> And if I took my grandkids golfing, I would consider
> teaching them the rules at least as important as teaching them the
> Vardon grip.
Oh man, my grandkids get lots of rules pushed onto them by their
parents and their teachers. I've seen my granddaughter crying because
her dad yelled at her for not bumping the ball correctly in a
volleyball game in their back yard!
So, mileage varies for everyone, but for me, a sunny afternoon with my
grandkids means nobody - not even ROG - tells us what we have to do.
Ed
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Date: 13 Oct 2006 12:25:16
From: FredK
Subject: Re: Following the Rules
|
"Dave Lee" <DaveLeeNC@ix.netcom.RemovE.com > wrote in message
news:aBOXg.13328$UG4.1387@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> I consider myself an honest golfer. But after the "Integrity at the Club
> Level" thread, I wonder if my standards of honesty might be quite
dishonest
> by other's standards.
>
> I'd never thought about this before, but I follow the ROG to two different
> levels depending...
>
> 1) When playing with folks I know in regular games
> 2) When playing competitively against folks I don't know well or most
> 'formal competitions'
>
> There are a couple of things that I do in case #1 that I generally
wouldn't
> do in #2
>
> 1) I carry a 3i as a practice alignment club and occasional practice
hitting
> club. I just don't use it EVER on the course (unless I make a formal windy
> day swap-out decision before the start of the round). But it is frequently
> in my bag (club #15).
>
> 2) I am not careful on the putting green and I'm sure (but don't know
when)
> that there have been times when I have putted out with a different ball
than
> I started with (same make/model). I always carry three balls and am trying
> to get in the habit of either not ever putting my in play ball in my
pocket
> or putting it in the other pocket.
>
> 3) I sometimes use the alignment line that I put on all my golf balls and
> will occasionally tweak the alignment a bit without king. BTW, is it
> legal to 'k' with the end of your putter when doing this? I'm just not
> going to slow down play even a little bit to muck with a ker, but the
> putter solution would be acceptable to me.
>
> 4) I once tried out a driver that I was unsure of and carried my old
driver
> as well (15 clubs - or maybe 16 if the 3i was in the bag). As feared all
> rightside hell broke loose and I switched back to the old one midround.
>
> Just wondered what other 'honest golfers' do or don't do WRT stuff like
> this. FWIW the number of rounds that I play in category #2 are
surprisingly
> rare (maybe a couple rounds/year).
>
I am lucky enough to live where I can play year round - I do not play in
organized competition or a league. I like to play on weekdays in the
afternoon - so I play as a single a lot. I've also played with regular
groups both during the week, and on the weekend.
In my experience I have yet to play with someone who plays "strickly" by the
rules. I have *never* seen someone return to the tee after finding their
ball OB or losing their ball outside a hazard - and usually they handle it
as if it were a lateral hazard and drop it and take a stroke - guessing at
about where it should have gone. I have "occasionally" seen a "real"
provisional - more often it's a "do over" (mulligan, whatever). I've seen
people who roll their ball in the fairway. Pick it up and clean it at any
time. I saw an old guy who built a little "tee" out of grass for his ball
when he was on the fairway or in the rough. Almost everybody picks up a
putt from time to time. First tee mulligans are more common than not.
Skill level or handicap doesn't seem to have any correlation to behavior
either. Rather, I think that non-competition "recreational golf" is a
slightly different game - and as long as you aren't betting with someone -
or you all agree to some common variation of the rules - everyone is happy.
As much as purists decry it - the common, non-competition golf game played
in the US has some generally followed "altered rules" from the ROG:
1) First tee mulligans - usually agreed to prior to teeing off. Sometimes
there is a more liberal "mulligan a side".
2) OB is treated as a lateral hazard and the ball is dropped approximately
where it went out of bounds with a 1 stroke penalty
3) Lost balls are treated the same as 2 with a guesstimate of about where
the ball should be.
4) After 3 putts, the next putt is a gimme no matter what the distance.
5) You can give someone a putt, even if it isn't really that close or even
if he missed it.
6) Divots treated as ground under repair
7) Touching the sand in a bunker "a little" just before the swing is not a
penalty
8) Posting the score following these revised rules into GHIN is OK
Now. I imagine the responses here will be "THAT'S NOT GOLF! IT'S SOMETHING
ELSE." or "YOU CAN'T AGREE TO ALTER THE ROG, THE ROG EXPLICITLY SAYS YOU
CAN'T!" or "CHEATERS!" or "AMERICANS!"
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Date: 16 Oct 2006 01:29:48
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: Following the Rules
|
On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 12:25:16 -0400, "FredK"
<fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com > wrote:
>As much as purists decry it - the common, non-competition golf game played
>in the US has some generally followed "altered rules" from the ROG:
>
>1) First tee mulligans - usually agreed to prior to teeing off. Sometimes
>there is a more liberal "mulligan a side".
I've seen that first. The second is a "rule" that can be agreed
upon, even though it is against the ROG.
>2) OB is treated as a lateral hazard and the ball is dropped approximately
>where it went out of bounds with a 1 stroke penalty
I've seen that. It should be a 2 stroke penalty.
>3) Lost balls are treated the same as 2 with a guesstimate of about where
>the ball should be.
With the added example of the ball hit in the leaves which has been
mentioned here.
>4) After 3 putts, the next putt is a gimme no matter what the distance.
I've never seen that.
>5) You can give someone a putt, even if it isn't really that close or even
>if he missed it.
That's how match play works.
>6) Divots treated as ground under repair
I haven't seen that. Some people move the ball anyway - they don't
need GUR to be their excuse.
>7) Touching the sand in a bunker "a little" just before the swing is not a
>penalty
I've seen people rake before hitting the ball again in that same
bunker.
>8) Posting the score following these revised rules into GHIN is OK
I have no idea what they post. I don't think people I've played
with like this have handicaps.
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Date: 13 Oct 2006 21:53:37
From: Crispin Roche
Subject: Re: Following the Rules
|
On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 15:50:30 GMT, "Dave Lee"
<DaveLeeNC@ix.netcom.RemovE.com > wrote:
>I consider myself an honest golfer. But after the "Integrity at the Club
>Level" thread, I wonder if my standards of honesty might be quite dishonest
>by other's standards.
>
>I'd never thought about this before, but I follow the ROG to two different
>levels depending...
>
>1) When playing with folks I know in regular games
>2) When playing competitively against folks I don't know well or most
>'formal competitions'
>
>There are a couple of things that I do in case #1 that I generally wouldn't
>do in #2
>
>1) I carry a 3i as a practice alignment club and occasional practice hitting
>club. I just don't use it EVER on the course (unless I make a formal windy
>day swap-out decision before the start of the round). But it is frequently
>in my bag (club #15).
>
>2) I am not careful on the putting green and I'm sure (but don't know when)
>that there have been times when I have putted out with a different ball than
>I started with (same make/model). I always carry three balls and am trying
>to get in the habit of either not ever putting my in play ball in my pocket
>or putting it in the other pocket.
>
>3) I sometimes use the alignment line that I put on all my golf balls and
>will occasionally tweak the alignment a bit without king. BTW, is it
>legal to 'k' with the end of your putter when doing this? I'm just not
>going to slow down play even a little bit to muck with a ker, but the
>putter solution would be acceptable to me.
>
>4) I once tried out a driver that I was unsure of and carried my old driver
>as well (15 clubs - or maybe 16 if the 3i was in the bag). As feared all
>rightside hell broke loose and I switched back to the old one midround.
>
>Just wondered what other 'honest golfers' do or don't do WRT stuff like
>this. FWIW the number of rounds that I play in category #2 are surprisingly
>rare (maybe a couple rounds/year).
>
As I play a lot of competitions I try and play to the rules in both
situations mainly because its so easy to get into bad habits.
Crispin Roche
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Date: 13 Oct 2006 14:30:49
From: EdSmithers
Subject: Re: Following the Rules
|
Aress Gee wrote:
> Actually, assuming that you did not cause the ball to move and
> had not addressed the ball, the ball is played from its new position
> without penalty.
So, that gives me a birdie then on #8, as my birdie chip ended up above
the hole, stopped for the time it took me to take a leak in the
porta-potty nearby, smoke part of a cigar, kid my brother about his bad
looking flop shot, and then pick one of two putters I'm trying out of
my bag. (Don't worry, I normally only carry 10 clubs, so I wasn't over
the limit.)
As I was walking onto the green, the wind galed a bit - had been
gusting 30 mph all morning - and the ball fell right in.
So, ROG finally helps me out, accordingto Aress.
Thanks,
Ed
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Date: 13 Oct 2006 13:04:58
From: EdSmithers
Subject: Re: Following the Rules
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Larry Bud wrote:
In both cases I put the ball back where it was and hit
> > it...quick.
>
> Actually, that IS the rule.
Oh, goodness. See how little I know. Thanks, Larry.
Ed
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Date: 13 Oct 2006 20:16:27
From: Carbon
Subject: Re: George W. Bush
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On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 07:37:31 -0700, John B. wrote:
> Carbon wrote:
>> On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 16:01:38 -0700, Tex wrote:
>> > I see, so to you, the ability to speak in public is a sign of
>> > intelligence?
>>
>> Obviously.
>
> Intelligent but inarticulate people say intelligent things
> inarticulately. Does that describe GWB? Certainly not. I have never
> heard him express an intelligent thought or an interesting or intriguing
> idea, even inartfully. I have never heard him say anything that clearly
> orginiated in his mind, rather than someone else's. I have never seen
> anything that he has written, and as far as I know he has never written
> anything since grad school. Intellectual give-and-take is of no interest
> to him, which may be fine for a baseball team owner, but not for the
> president of the United States. Plenty of very st people are not good
> public speakers. But they still manage to express themselves in ways
> that show their intelligence. GWB has never done that, or even come
> close.
Well put. If Bush could come up with something this insightful on his own
I wouldn't think he was such a retard.
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Date: 13 Oct 2006 21:30:12
From: John van der Pflum
Subject: Re: Following the Rules
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On 13 Oct 2006 15:17:50 -0500, Aress Gee
<invalid@not_real_address.com > wrote:
>"EdSmithers" <spirosdarlotts@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> Larry Bud wrote:
>> In both cases I put the ball back where it was and hit
>> > > it...quick.
>> >
>> > Actually, that IS the rule.
>>
>> Oh, goodness. See how little I know. Thanks, Larry.
>
>Actually, assuming that you did not cause the ball to move and
>had not addressed the ball, the ball is played from its new position
>without penalty.
>
>ref: Decisions 18-2a/7, 20-3d/1
Dammit, Aress, slow down will ya? I was just going to post those.
>:-)
--
http://www.rsgcincinnati.com
jvdp
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Date: 13 Oct 2006 12:59:18
From: Larry Bud
Subject: Re: Following the Rules
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EdSmithers wrote:
> > I think it's fairly simple. If you are playing for practice, do
> > whatever you want. If you are playing for real, whether with friends,
> > strangers, or in competition, follow the rules. All of them.
>
> I think, as I've said before, that if you're playing for fun, then have
> fun. Today in an absolute hellacious windstorm, the wind actually blew
> my ball once into the cup and once off the green into some kind of
> varmint hole. In both cases I put the ball back where it was and hit
> it...quick.
Actually, that IS the rule.
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Date: 13 Oct 2006 12:52:38
From: EdSmithers
Subject: Re: Following the Rules
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> I think it's fairly simple. If you are playing for practice, do
> whatever you want. If you are playing for real, whether with friends,
> strangers, or in competition, follow the rules. All of them.
I think, as I've said before, that if you're playing for fun, then have
fun. Today in an absolute hellacious windstorm, the wind actually blew
my ball once into the cup and once off the green into some kind of
varmint hole. In both cases I put the ball back where it was and hit
it...quick.
If it's in competition, then by the rules agreed upon in that
situation. If I'm playing for a buck with a friend and we agree that
we're going to play two balls and take our worst drive on all par 5s,
then that's the rule for that. Okay, it's not ROG, and maybe we're not
actually playing "golf" on those holes, but please give your poor heart
a break and worry about yourself.
If I play with you, and we agree on ROG, then fine.
But let's not always try to legislate every casual game with grandkids
and spouses. And don't tell me we can't do our once yearly "blindfold
on the green" 9 holer where we get to hockey stick our putts along
until we find the hole.
Cheers & FORE!
Ed
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Date: 16 Oct 2006 01:23:36
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: Following the Rules
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On 13 Oct 2006 12:52:38 -0700, "EdSmithers" <spirosdarlotts@yahoo.com >
wrote:
>If it's in competition, then by the rules agreed upon in that
>situation. If I'm playing for a buck with a friend and we agree that
>we're going to play two balls and take our worst drive on all par 5s,
>then that's the rule for that. Okay, it's not ROG, and maybe we're not
>actually playing "golf" on those holes, but please give your poor heart
>a break and worry about yourself.
If you're playing for money - you have to have some rules. It really
doesn't make any difference what the rules are - but practically it
has to be anything not mentioned is the ROG.
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Date: 13 Oct 2006 15:04:06
From: multi
Subject: Re: Following the Rules
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On 13 Oct 2006 12:52:38 -0700, "EdSmithers" <spirosdarlotts@yahoo.com >
wrote:
>But let's not always try to legislate every casual game with grandkids
>and spouses
Who said anything about that? All I said was if you are playing for
real, follow the rules --- otherwise your score is invalid. If you're
playing for fun, do what you want --- assuming, of course, that you
don't damage the grounds or hold up other players. But when I was
playing, I never found that following the rules prevented me from
having fun. And if I took my grandkids golfing, I would consider
teaching them the rules at least as important as teaching them the
Vardon grip.
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Date: 13 Oct 2006 11:36:26
From: RockPile
Subject: Re: Following the Rules
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On Oct 13, 11:50 am, "Dave Lee" <DaveLe...@ix.netcom.RemovE.com > wrote:
> I consider myself an honest golfer. But after the "Integrity at the Club
> Level" thread, I wonder if my standards of honesty might be quite dishonest
> by other's standards.
>
> 2) I am not careful on the putting green and I'm sure (but don't know when)
> that there have been times when I have putted out with a different ball than
> I started with (same make/model). I always carry three balls and am trying
> to get in the habit of either not ever putting my in play ball in my pocket
> or putting it in the other pocket.
I try to make sure that the other ball in my pocket is a different
brand than the main ball. This helps me to keep from accidentally
switching balls. This won't work if you want to always use the same
type of ball.
>
> 3) I sometimes use the alignment line that I put on all my golf balls and
> will occasionally tweak the alignment a bit without king. BTW, is it
> legal to 'k' with the end of your putter when doing this? I'm just not
> going to slow down play even a little bit to muck with a ker, but the
> putter solution would be acceptable to me.
I have started placing the ball and leaving the ker there. That
way, i get to twiddle the alignment k to my heart's content and then
pick up the ker.
>
> Just wondered what other 'honest golfers' do or don't do WRT stuff like
> this. FWIW the number of rounds that I play in category #2 are surprisingly
> rare (maybe a couple rounds/year).
I have become an 'honest golfer' as well (with the exception of silly
rounds like scrambles). Once you make the switch, it feels so much
better when you carve a good shot out of a crappy lie (or a divot), or
get one of the rules' good breaks, like a legitimate drop that gets you
onto the fairway, for instance.
When I play with my buddies, a lot of the time they roll there eyes at
the few situation which require some contortions to follow the rules
(determining and king nearest point of relief, for instance), but
the know my idiosyncracies and have learned to gently poke fun at me
for them.
RockPile
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Date: 16 Oct 2006 01:37:41
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: Following the Rules
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On 13 Oct 2006 11:36:26 -0700, "RockPile" <rpyle_1999@yahoo.com >
wrote:
>I try to make sure that the other ball in my pocket is a different
>brand than the main ball. This helps me to keep from accidentally
>switching balls. This won't work if you want to always use the same
>type of ball.
That's why I have two pockets.
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Date: 13 Oct 2006 13:15:37
From: John van der Pflum
Subject: Re: Following the Rules
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On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 15:50:30 GMT, "Dave Lee"
<DaveLeeNC@ix.netcom.RemovE.com > wrote:
>BTW, is it
>legal to 'k' with the end of your putter when doing this? I'm just not
>going to slow down play even a little bit to muck with a ker, but the
>putter solution would be acceptable to me.
>
I'm 95% sure this is allowed but for the life of me I can't find the
decision. There might not even be a decision. The only trouble
you'll get into is if you k with the putter and then accidently
drop it or something and "lose" the place you had ked.
In response to your original question, I play all of my rounds by the
rules, other than if I'm clearing dorking around playing a scramble or
some such thing. I've found that it helps me focus, even on casual
rounds, and I play much better. Its like I have more at stake in the
game knowing that there are penalties and problems involved.
Also, in official "high stakes" competitions I'm used to playing by
the book. I see a lot of people stressed or nervous about following
the rules and start to freak out thinking they might do something
wrong.
--
jvdp
Myke Plough-in-skee is not mentioned in this thread.
http://www.rsgcincinnati.com/files/OH_2006_make_a_putt.avi
http://www.rsgcincinnati.com
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Date: 13 Oct 2006 12:54:47
From: Aress Gee
Subject: Re: Following the Rules
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John van der Pflum <jpflumjr@ughookugh.com > writes:
> On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 15:50:30 GMT, "Dave Lee"
> <DaveLeeNC@ix.netcom.RemovE.com> wrote:
>
> >BTW, is it
> >legal to 'k' with the end of your putter when doing this? I'm just not
> >going to slow down play even a little bit to muck with a ker, but the
> >putter solution would be acceptable to me.
> >
>
> I'm 95% sure this is allowed but for the life of me I can't find the
> decision. There might not even be a decision. The only trouble
> you'll get into is if you k with the putter and then accidently
> drop it or something and "lose" the place you had ked.
20-1/16
--
+++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Mr. People who use golf as some sort of status
Aress symbol are destined to go unfulfilled.
Gee -- Golf's Most Beloved Figure
+++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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Date: 13 Oct 2006 14:00:18
From: John van der Pflum
Subject: Re: Following the Rules
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On 13 Oct 2006 12:54:47 -0500, Aress Gee
<invalid@not_real_address.com > wrote:
>John van der Pflum <jpflumjr@ughookugh.com> writes:
>
>> On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 15:50:30 GMT, "Dave Lee"
>> <DaveLeeNC@ix.netcom.RemovE.com> wrote:
>>
>> >BTW, is it
>> >legal to 'k' with the end of your putter when doing this? I'm just not
>> >going to slow down play even a little bit to muck with a ker, but the
>> >putter solution would be acceptable to me.
>> >
>>
>> I'm 95% sure this is allowed but for the life of me I can't find the
>> decision. There might not even be a decision. The only trouble
>> you'll get into is if you k with the putter and then accidently
>> drop it or something and "lose" the place you had ked.
>
>20-1/16
Ugh. I must have read (skimmed I suppose) over those titles three
times. I wish the USGA would come up with an easy way to search just
the rules and decisions. Hecck, even the index in the back of the
printed books are WAAAAAY better than the web page.
--
jvdp
Myke Plough-in-skee is not mentioned in this thread.
http://www.rsgcincinnati.com/files/OH_2006_make_a_putt.avi
http://www.rsgcincinnati.com
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Date: 16 Oct 2006 01:37:10
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Re: Following the Rules
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On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 14:00:18 -0400, John van der Pflum
<jpflumjr@ughookugh.com > wrote:
>Ugh. I must have read (skimmed I suppose) over those titles three
>times. I wish the USGA would come up with an easy way to search just
>the rules and decisions. Hecck, even the index in the back of the
>printed books are WAAAAAY better than the web page.
Amen to that.
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Date: 13 Oct 2006 09:07:28
From: multi
Subject: Re: Following the Rules
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On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 15:50:30 GMT, "Dave Lee"
<DaveLeeNC@ix.netcom.RemovE.com > wrote:
> I wonder if my standards of honesty might be quite dishonest
>by other's standards.
I think it's fairly simple. If you are playing for practice, do
whatever you want. If you are playing for real, whether with friends,
strangers, or in competition, follow the rules. All of them.
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Date: 13 Oct 2006 09:02:27
From: Larry Bud
Subject: Re: Following the Rules
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> Just wondered what other 'honest golfers' do or don't do WRT stuff like
> this. FWIW the number of rounds that I play in category #2 are surprisingly
> rare (maybe a couple rounds/year).
Even when I play by myself I play everything to a T, including
reking a ball to tweak alignment, unless I specifically go out to
play a practice round, like before a tournament on an unfamiliar
course, where I might throw down 2 or 3 balls to try different shots.
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