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Date: 15 Mar 2007 10:20:23
From: Howard Brazee
Subject: Ball falls off the tee
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Page 39 of the April, 2007 Golf Magazine has someone asking the Rules
Guy the following:
Q: My buddy and I were playing with a pal whose ball toppled from the
tee during his backswing, and he still hit it 20 feet. What is the
ruling?
A: After you finished asking him if his pink skirt got in the way, you
should have informed Alice he'd just incurred a one stroke penalty
under Rule 18-2b because the ball moved after he addressed it. He
didn't have to re-tee it, but he could have-- for the price of another
shot tacked onto the penalty, which means had he re-teed he would have
been hitting his fourth.
======================================
I don't get it. This is on the tee. The ball is not yet in play,
and the ROG define
Addressing the Ball
A player has “addressed the ball’’ when he has taken his stance and
has also grounded his club, except that in a hazard a player has
addressed the ball when he has taken his stance.
The assumption must be that he grounded the ball - for a tee shot?
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Date: 16 Mar 2007 09:46:04
From: Miss Anne Thrope
Subject: Re: Ball falls off the tee
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My question is why would anyone have a "pal" and a "buddy" who would
actually call them on it?
Are you cream puffs really that serious?
And by serious, I mean impotent.
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Date: 16 Mar 2007 05:57:55
From: me
Subject: Re: Ball falls off the tee
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On 15, 8:04 pm, BAR <scre...@you.com > wrote:
> david s-a wrote:
> > Howard Brazee wrote:
> >> Page 39 of the April, 2007 Golf Magazine has someone asking the Rules
> >> Guy the following:
>
> >> Q: My buddy and I were playing with a pal whose ball toppled from the
> >> tee during his backswing, and he still hit it 20 feet. What is the
> >> ruling?
>
> >> A: After you finished asking him if his pink skirt got in the way, you
> >> should have informed Alice he'd just incurred a one stroke penalty
> >> under Rule 18-2b because the ball moved after he addressed it. He
> >> didn't have to re-tee it, but he could have-- for the price of another
> >> shot tacked onto the penalty, which means had he re-teed he would have
> >> been hitting his fourth.
> >> ======================================
>
> > Penalty? Why?
>
> > All he did was put the ball in play, it doesn't matter whether it was on
> > the tee or not. Rule 18-2b only applies to a 'ball in play', and until
> > he has actually made a 'stroke' at the ball it is not 'in play'.
>
> > Furthermore, Rule 11-3 states that if a stroke is made at the ball after
> > it has fallen from the tee in these circumstances, whether the ball is
> > moving or not, the stroke counts but there is no penalty.
>
> We should hope to hear the assembled masses shout "That's one." the next
> time Tiger stops in the middle of his backswing on the tee when some
> idiot shouts "you d'a man" or the other idiot shouts "in d'a hole" too
> early or another idiot forgets to turn of the click noise in his digital
> camera?
IIUC, one must INTENTIONALLY make a stroke at the ball in order
for it to count. Even if I take a downswing but miss the ball because
I didn't want to hit it, there is no stroke. The converse of this is
that if I accidentally hit a ball while taking a practice swing,
I MUST replace the ball and replay the shot (with all associated
penalties).
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Date: 17 Mar 2007 08:39:19
From: david s-a
Subject: Re: Ball falls off the tee
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me wrote:
> The converse of this is
> that if I accidentally hit a ball while taking a practice swing,
> I MUST replace the ball and replay the shot (with all associated
> penalties).
Not unless the ball is 'in play'....!
If the 'accident' is prior to your tee shot there is no 'MUST' and there
is no penalty.
cheers
david
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Date: 16 Mar 2007 09:33:55
From: John van der Pflum
Subject: Re: Ball falls off the tee
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On 16 2007 05:57:55 -0700, "me" <oconnell@slr.orl.lmco.com > wrote:
>On 15, 8:04 pm, BAR <scre...@you.com> wrote:
>> david s-a wrote:
>> > Howard Brazee wrote:
>> >> Page 39 of the April, 2007 Golf Magazine has someone asking the Rules
>> >> Guy the following:
>>
>> >> Q: My buddy and I were playing with a pal whose ball toppled from the
>> >> tee during his backswing, and he still hit it 20 feet. What is the
>> >> ruling?
>>
>> >> A: After you finished asking him if his pink skirt got in the way, you
>> >> should have informed Alice he'd just incurred a one stroke penalty
>> >> under Rule 18-2b because the ball moved after he addressed it. He
>> >> didn't have to re-tee it, but he could have-- for the price of another
>> >> shot tacked onto the penalty, which means had he re-teed he would have
>> >> been hitting his fourth.
>> >> ======================================
>>
>> > Penalty? Why?
>>
>> > All he did was put the ball in play, it doesn't matter whether it was on
>> > the tee or not. Rule 18-2b only applies to a 'ball in play', and until
>> > he has actually made a 'stroke' at the ball it is not 'in play'.
>>
>> > Furthermore, Rule 11-3 states that if a stroke is made at the ball after
>> > it has fallen from the tee in these circumstances, whether the ball is
>> > moving or not, the stroke counts but there is no penalty.
>>
>> We should hope to hear the assembled masses shout "That's one." the next
>> time Tiger stops in the middle of his backswing on the tee when some
>> idiot shouts "you d'a man" or the other idiot shouts "in d'a hole" too
>> early or another idiot forgets to turn of the click noise in his digital
>> camera?
>
> IIUC, one must INTENTIONALLY make a stroke at the ball in order
>for it to count. Even if I take a downswing but miss the ball because
>I didn't want to hit it, there is no stroke. The converse of this is
>that if I accidentally hit a ball while taking a practice swing,
>I MUST replace the ball and replay the shot (with all associated
>penalties).
See decisions 18-2a/19 and 18-2a/20.
--
jvdp
RSG Cincinnati July 13-15, 2007
http://www.rsgcincinnati.com
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Date: 16 Mar 2007 02:12:50
From: johnty
Subject: Re: Ball falls off the tee
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On 15 , 23:55, BAR <scre...@you.com > wrote:
>
> Where is the definition for "grounded his club". I have looked through
> the RoG and I can't find a definition for grounded or grounding ones club.
>
>
See decisions 18-2b/5 18-2b/5.5 18-2b/5.7 18-2b/6 18-2b/7 (also
13-4/31 13-4/34 may help).
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Date: 16 Mar 2007 18:44:36
From: BAR
Subject: Re: Ball falls off the tee
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johnty wrote:
> On 15 , 23:55, BAR <scre...@you.com> wrote:
>
>> Where is the definition for "grounded his club". I have looked through
>> the RoG and I can't find a definition for grounded or grounding ones club.
>>
>>
>
>
> See decisions 18-2b/5 18-2b/5.5 18-2b/5.7 18-2b/6 18-2b/7 (also
> 13-4/31 13-4/34 may help).
>
>
18-2b/5 = So, if the weight of the clubs is not fully supported by the
grass when then it is technically not grounding?
18-2b/5.4 = Inconclusive.
18-2b/5.7 = Inconclusive.
18-2b/6 = Inconclusive. Now "resting" comes into play. What is resting.
13-4/31 = Inconclusive.
13-4/34 = Inconclusive.
The strongest on is 18-2b/5, however, how will you be able to determine
whether the the entire weight of the club has compressed the grass?
I suggest that the anal retentive rules officials at USGA and R&A put
grounding in the Definition section. Touching the ground in a hazard is
not grounding, because they don't explicitly say the club was grounded,
they do say touching the sand and touching bare earth.
Grounding does not have a useful definition.
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Date: 15 Mar 2007 21:52:10
From: Dene
Subject: Re: Ball falls off the tee
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On 15, 4:45 pm, John van der Pflum <nowhammymyspa...@bite.org >
wrote:
> On Thu, 15 2007 15:11:03 -0500, "the Moderator"
>
>
>
>
>
> <sparky@no_spam_engineer.com> wrote:
>
> >"Howard Brazee" <how...@brazee.net> wrote in message
> >news:g8siv2hq6t01nrgac8t11dpfj312vp6phr@4ax.com...
> >> Page 39 of the April, 2007 Golf Magazine has someone asking the Rules
> >> Guy the following:
>
> >> Q: My buddy and I were playing with a pal whose ball toppled from the
> >> tee during his backswing, and he still hit it 20 feet. What is the
> >> ruling?
>
> >> A: After you finished asking him if his pink skirt got in the way, you
> >> should have informed Alice he'd just incurred a one stroke penalty
> >> under Rule 18-2b because the ball moved after he addressed it. He
> >> didn't have to re-tee it, but he could have-- for the price of another
> >> shot tacked onto the penalty, which means had he re-teed he would have
> >> been hitting his fourth.
> >> ======================================
>
> >> I don't get it. This is on the tee. The ball is not yet in play,
> >> and the ROG define
>
> >> Addressing the Ball
> >> A player has "addressed the ball'' when he has taken his stance and
> >> has also grounded his club, except that in a hazard a player has
> >> addressed the ball when he has taken his stance.
>
> >> The assumption must be that he grounded the ball - for a tee shot?
>
> >Its a 'do over.'
>
> No, it's not............
>
> 11-3 Ball Falling Off Tee
>
> If a ball, when not in play, falls off a tee or is knocked off a tee
> by the player in addressing it, it may be re-teed without penalty.
> However, if a stroke is made at the ball in these circumstances,
> whether the ball is moving or not, the stroke counts but there is no
> penalty.
> --
>
> jvdp
> RSG Cincinnati July 13-15, 2007http://www.rsgcincinnati.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Exactly right. It's happened to me too often when I was using brush
tees.
-Greg
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Date: 15 Mar 2007 19:55:18
From: BAR
Subject: Re: Ball falls off the tee
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Howard Brazee wrote:
> Page 39 of the April, 2007 Golf Magazine has someone asking the Rules
> Guy the following:
>
> Q: My buddy and I were playing with a pal whose ball toppled from the
> tee during his backswing, and he still hit it 20 feet. What is the
> ruling?
>
> A: After you finished asking him if his pink skirt got in the way, you
> should have informed Alice he'd just incurred a one stroke penalty
> under Rule 18-2b because the ball moved after he addressed it. He
> didn't have to re-tee it, but he could have-- for the price of another
> shot tacked onto the penalty, which means had he re-teed he would have
> been hitting his fourth.
> ======================================
>
> I don't get it. This is on the tee. The ball is not yet in play,
> and the ROG define
>
> Addressing the Ball
> A player has “addressed the ball’’ when he has taken his stance and
> has also grounded his club, except that in a hazard a player has
> addressed the ball when he has taken his stance.
Where is the definition for "grounded his club". I have looked through
the RoG and I can't find a definition for grounded or grounding ones club.
> The assumption must be that he grounded the ball - for a tee shot?
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Date: 16 Mar 2007 10:08:52
From: david s-a
Subject: Re: Ball falls off the tee
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Howard Brazee wrote:
> Page 39 of the April, 2007 Golf Magazine has someone asking the Rules
> Guy the following:
>
> Q: My buddy and I were playing with a pal whose ball toppled from the
> tee during his backswing, and he still hit it 20 feet. What is the
> ruling?
>
> A: After you finished asking him if his pink skirt got in the way, you
> should have informed Alice he'd just incurred a one stroke penalty
> under Rule 18-2b because the ball moved after he addressed it. He
> didn't have to re-tee it, but he could have-- for the price of another
> shot tacked onto the penalty, which means had he re-teed he would have
> been hitting his fourth.
> ======================================
Penalty? Why?
All he did was put the ball in play, it doesn't matter whether it was on
the tee or not. Rule 18-2b only applies to a 'ball in play', and until
he has actually made a 'stroke' at the ball it is not 'in play'.
Furthermore, Rule 11-3 states that if a stroke is made at the ball after
it has fallen from the tee in these circumstances, whether the ball is
moving or not, the stroke counts but there is no penalty.
cheers
david
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Date: 15 Mar 2007 20:04:56
From: BAR
Subject: Re: Ball falls off the tee
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david s-a wrote:
> Howard Brazee wrote:
>> Page 39 of the April, 2007 Golf Magazine has someone asking the Rules
>> Guy the following:
>>
>> Q: My buddy and I were playing with a pal whose ball toppled from the
>> tee during his backswing, and he still hit it 20 feet. What is the
>> ruling?
>>
>> A: After you finished asking him if his pink skirt got in the way, you
>> should have informed Alice he'd just incurred a one stroke penalty
>> under Rule 18-2b because the ball moved after he addressed it. He
>> didn't have to re-tee it, but he could have-- for the price of another
>> shot tacked onto the penalty, which means had he re-teed he would have
>> been hitting his fourth.
>> ======================================
>
>
> Penalty? Why?
>
> All he did was put the ball in play, it doesn't matter whether it was on
> the tee or not. Rule 18-2b only applies to a 'ball in play', and until
> he has actually made a 'stroke' at the ball it is not 'in play'.
>
> Furthermore, Rule 11-3 states that if a stroke is made at the ball after
> it has fallen from the tee in these circumstances, whether the ball is
> moving or not, the stroke counts but there is no penalty.
We should hope to hear the assembled masses shout "That's one." the next
time Tiger stops in the middle of his backswing on the tee when some
idiot shouts "you d'a man" or the other idiot shouts "in d'a hole" too
early or another idiot forgets to turn of the click noise in his digital
camera?
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Date: 15 Mar 2007 15:11:03
From: the Moderator
Subject: Re: Ball falls off the tee
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"Howard Brazee" <howard@brazee.net > wrote in message
news:g8siv2hq6t01nrgac8t11dpfj312vp6phr@4ax.com...
> Page 39 of the April, 2007 Golf Magazine has someone asking the Rules
> Guy the following:
>
> Q: My buddy and I were playing with a pal whose ball toppled from the
> tee during his backswing, and he still hit it 20 feet. What is the
> ruling?
>
> A: After you finished asking him if his pink skirt got in the way, you
> should have informed Alice he'd just incurred a one stroke penalty
> under Rule 18-2b because the ball moved after he addressed it. He
> didn't have to re-tee it, but he could have-- for the price of another
> shot tacked onto the penalty, which means had he re-teed he would have
> been hitting his fourth.
> ======================================
>
> I don't get it. This is on the tee. The ball is not yet in play,
> and the ROG define
>
> Addressing the Ball
> A player has "addressed the ball'' when he has taken his stance and
> has also grounded his club, except that in a hazard a player has
> addressed the ball when he has taken his stance.
>
> The assumption must be that he grounded the ball - for a tee shot?
Its a 'do over.'
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Date: 15 Mar 2007 20:45:44
From: John van der Pflum
Subject: Re: Ball falls off the tee
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On Thu, 15 2007 15:11:03 -0500, "the Moderator"
<sparky@no_spam_engineer.com > wrote:
>
>"Howard Brazee" <howard@brazee.net> wrote in message
>news:g8siv2hq6t01nrgac8t11dpfj312vp6phr@4ax.com...
>> Page 39 of the April, 2007 Golf Magazine has someone asking the Rules
>> Guy the following:
>>
>> Q: My buddy and I were playing with a pal whose ball toppled from the
>> tee during his backswing, and he still hit it 20 feet. What is the
>> ruling?
>>
>> A: After you finished asking him if his pink skirt got in the way, you
>> should have informed Alice he'd just incurred a one stroke penalty
>> under Rule 18-2b because the ball moved after he addressed it. He
>> didn't have to re-tee it, but he could have-- for the price of another
>> shot tacked onto the penalty, which means had he re-teed he would have
>> been hitting his fourth.
>> ======================================
>>
>> I don't get it. This is on the tee. The ball is not yet in play,
>> and the ROG define
>>
>> Addressing the Ball
>> A player has "addressed the ball'' when he has taken his stance and
>> has also grounded his club, except that in a hazard a player has
>> addressed the ball when he has taken his stance.
>>
>> The assumption must be that he grounded the ball - for a tee shot?
>
>Its a 'do over.'
>
No, it's not............
11-3 Ball Falling Off Tee
If a ball, when not in play, falls off a tee or is knocked off a tee
by the player in addressing it, it may be re-teed without penalty.
However, if a stroke is made at the ball in these circumstances,
whether the ball is moving or not, the stroke counts but there is no
penalty.
--
jvdp
RSG Cincinnati July 13-15, 2007
http://www.rsgcincinnati.com
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Date: 15 Mar 2007 12:34:35
From: johnty
Subject: Re: Ball falls off the tee
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On 15 , 16:20, Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net > wrote:
> Page 39 of the April, 2007 Golf Magazine has someone asking the Rules
> Guy the following:
>
> Q: My buddy and I were playing with a pal whose ball toppled from the
> tee during his backswing, and he still hit it 20 feet. What is the
> ruling?
>
> A: After you finished asking him if his pink skirt got in the way, you
> should have informed Alice he'd just incurred a one stroke penalty
> under Rule 18-2b because the ball moved after he addressed it. He
> didn't have to re-tee it, but he could have-- for the price of another
> shot tacked onto the penalty, which means had he re-teed he would have
> been hitting his fourth.
> ======================================
>
> I don't get it. This is on the tee. The ball is not yet in play,
> and the ROG define
>
> Addressing the Ball
> A player has "addressed the ball'' when he has taken his stance and
> has also grounded his club, except that in a hazard a player has
> addressed the ball when he has taken his stance.
>
> The assumption must be that he grounded the ball - for a tee shot?
It's about as wrong as it could be. Unless the question has been
misprinted.
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Date: 15 Mar 2007 13:50:55
From: John van der Pflum
Subject: Re: Ball falls off the tee
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On Thu, 15 2007 10:20:23 -0600, Howard Brazee <howard@brazee.net >
wrote:
>Page 39 of the April, 2007 Golf Magazine has someone asking the Rules
>Guy the following:
>
>Q: My buddy and I were playing with a pal whose ball toppled from the
>tee during his backswing, and he still hit it 20 feet. What is the
>ruling?
>
>A: After you finished asking him if his pink skirt got in the way, you
>should have informed Alice he'd just incurred a one stroke penalty
>under Rule 18-2b because the ball moved after he addressed it. He
>didn't have to re-tee it, but he could have-- for the price of another
>shot tacked onto the penalty, which means had he re-teed he would have
>been hitting his fourth.
>======================================
>
>I don't get it. This is on the tee. The ball is not yet in play,
>and the ROG define
>
>Addressing the Ball
>A player has “addressed the ball’’ when he has taken his stance and
>has also grounded his club, except that in a hazard a player has
>addressed the ball when he has taken his stance.
>
>The assumption must be that he grounded the ball - for a tee shot?
It doesn't matter. That guy in an idiot. See definition of a "ball
in play" and rule 11-3.
It doesn't matter if you ground your club or not on the tee. The ball
isn't in play until you make a stroke at it from the tee.
--
jvdp
RSG Cincinnati July 13-15, 2007
http://www.rsgcincinnati.com
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